#516 - After Hours: Are Real Estate Agents Overvalued?

Quiet spaces and anechoic chambers

0:00This is the second studio, hosted by two architects, myself, David Lee, and Marina Bordarine. This week is the two of us in the studio in a casual after-hours chat. It's so casual, we're not going to talk about anything.

0:15You're just going to listen to us breathe for an hour. Yeah. We're starting a new meditation app. You log on, and there's an audio recording of nothing. And that's the point.

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Acoustic insulation and rockwool choices

1:46This is the second studio with the two of us. Apparently, though, you know, they have those rooms that are an anechoic chamber. So it's a room with insulation, acoustic insulation, acoustic whatever things, that sucks up all the reverberation. So there's like 0.0000001 dB of reverberation, basically numb. You've seen pictures of them probably. Yeah, I don't know what they look like, but... So the interior of... There's several of these rooms, but the interior of them look the same.

2:19It's a room, and the walls are coated with... They look like big spikes. The spikes are probably maybe like 18 inches protruding out from the walls, and they look like they're a foam, like acoustic foam paneling, but like an extreme degree. And I forget what the chambers are used for and why they exist, but because I think they are used for something, but they suck up all the echo. So if you were to clap, you hear the initial clap, but there's no reverberation.

2:53And when you talk, you hear your voice, but in such a way that it freaks people out. So I remember seeing online at some point that there was a... What's it? Some company had one of these rooms and said, okay, we'll give you like a million dollars if you can be in this room by yourself for... I think it was an hour or two hours. It was something not long. I don't think it was a day. It was something really short, like an hour. I'd do it for a million dollars. Oh yeah, put me in. But people can only last like two minutes.

3:25And the reason why... It's just breathing. Is it so dead quiet that you end up hearing... Your organ sounds? You end up hearing your heart, and you end up hearing your blood flow, and hearing all these things, and you go nuts. So people can't last more than like three minutes in the room. They go crazy. I mean, even if you get like a neutral sound down, just hearing like, you know, the heartbeat of the neutral sound, it's a sound I really, I do not like. Here's the sound of your baby.

3:53Like, I mean, it sounds like a tractor in there. Sure.

3:59That's interesting. Yeah. I wonder what it would be used for. I mean, maybe as a Russian strategy to question like people, spies or something, like torture chamber. Whenever I see stuff like that, I'm like, yeah, put me in there. I can tough it out for an hour. But I guess, yeah, people go nuts. But if you put earplugs, and you don't talk, you just breathe? Well, that's what I'm wondering. It's an easy $1 million. I mean, I don't know. I guess it's a lot different than just earplugs. So anyway, so, you know, we were talking about like our recording studio setup and having

4:31insulation or not. See, I'm not saying we go that far. Well, but that's an extreme. Like, come on, 18-inch spikes. Like, that's insane. But see, relative to that, what we have is considered very resettable. Yeah. So imagine if we didn't even have it, it would probably be still a file. Well, so I was looking up, I don't know if people care about this, but I was looking up like, are there acoustic panel alternatives that I can just buy off the shelf instead of, you know, using these or whatever, and ones that are thinner. But I guess all things considered, basically what we have is pretty much close to being

5:05what is recommended according to ChatGPT. And actually, the insulation that's inside of a lot of those products is rockwool insulation anyway. But it's a different grade. It's a different, it's a, what do you call it, rigid insulation. So you can't buy it from Home Depot. You have to buy it from some commercial vendor. But does rigid insulation work as well for sound as like something cushy? I feel like doesn't it need like air pockets and stuff to kind of like, you know, get absorbed? So this is according to ChatGPT from my late use of it at like midnight, so I could be mistaken.

5:40But so what we have are three or three and a half inch, whatever thickness of the safe and sound rockwool products, which is actually, it's meant to go inside of walls. Yeah. The rockwool product that I'm thinking about is called 950L or SL or something, and it's two inches and it's rigid. And the three or four inches is better, but the way you use the two inch one is that you mount it with space behind it. So it hovers off the wall. And I guess if you do that.

6:11That creates the pocket. It depends on the frequencies you're talking about and whatever, but it gets close to doing the same thing, but not quite this. But you still, you know, end up having four inches of buildup. Um, but anyway. But you don't get the itchy part of the loose rockwool.

6:27Probably. You can probably cut it to dimension easier than like, you know, that. I remember, you know, when my dad, um, um, outfitted the second story of our house to do like our bedrooms, he, you know, it was like steel, steel frame house, right? But the attic was just like there. Did you say steel framed? Yeah. Really? Yeah. The house was from the, I think it was from the seventies. So, so contemporary. But no, well, but you know, but, but it's kind of like maybe the equivalent of like a kind

6:59of a tracked home, let's say. Right. But it's steel framing common. It was kind of, it's a specific type of house that was common at that time. And the particularity of it is that they were made with steel frames, but they're like thin steel frames, you know, they're like. Yeah. Called foreign steel. Thin, light gauge. Thin. Well, actually. Like studs. No, no, no. They're like, I mean, you know, like the upstairs, for example, there was like, like kind of like, like more like an L bracket thing and they made like trusses and things of that. Okay.

7:30And the walls are made the same way, which is, you know, pretty cool. But anyway, so he, so when they bought the house, it was just a one story house. And so it was just like one bathroom and three bedrooms on the ground floor. And obviously. One bath. Yeah. Well, it's common in France for people to share a bath. Like the own suite and whatever. That's an American thing. Because again, like there is more space here to build. But like a lot of the homes in Europe are older and they're smaller. So people share a bathroom. So we used to have a bath, like one bathroom for the five of us until I turned like 15 or

8:05something. And my sister, my older sister had moved out, but you know, it was just what it was. And you just kind of like get organized around it. But anyway, he built a second story. So it was just an attic. The second story was not outfitted. There was no stair. You know, it was just like an access panel and insulation. And so I remember helping him or at least being around him when he was doing some of that work. It's just like, it was always like, be careful of the rock wall. It's very itchy. Because, you know, he would do a lot of that work mostly during the warmer days of the year.

8:39He would do some in the winter as much as he could. But so I would always be around, you know, with my toys, just kind of like climbing in the attic and sit there with my toys. And like my dad is like, you know, adding framing and partitions. Super safe. Yes. Don't go where there's a hole in the floor. I was playing with like, you know, like little leftover pieces of wood that he would cut. And I would make like, you know, houses for my dolls and whatever. You know, it was fun times. But I always remember being like, do not come over here. This is like super itchy stuff. And I remember a few times I was like, well, how itchy could it be?

9:11It looks like wood. It looks soft. And oh my God, I regret it touching that thing. It was awful. It's gross. Because it just, and it gets everywhere on your skin. Like you can't really get rid of it. It's probably fiberglass is the one that you guys have. Yeah. Not even mineral wool. It was awful. It was awful. So I really, really despise that type of insulation. I'm not sure. So you stay in the wall. I just never want to see you. I never want to touch you. Like I never want to clean. The fiberglass stuff is, I think, the worst, right? It's probably cheaper too. Oh yeah, yeah.

9:42But mineral wool is itchy, but it's like five times better. But the other one has like almost 10 shards. Yeah, yeah. It's fiberglass. It's shredded fiberglass. But of course, the problem with that, now with all the concerns about fire resiliency and whatnot, is that stuff just ignites minerals better for that reason. They actually make insulation out of a denim also. And there's also wood-based insulation. I think both of those perform really well, but I don't know like how they deal with, how

10:14they work in terms of fire resiliency. But yeah, insulation is nasty stuff. I had touched some fiberglass stuff. It's stupid human nature, right? Someone tells you, don't touch it. You're like, yeah, guess what? You're like, I'm tough. And you're like, oh, you're right. I should have touched that.

10:32Yeah, that's... I mean, if my dad, who's 30 years older than me, and he's a big guy, tells me not to touch it, I probably should listen. Like if he doesn't like that, I probably won't either, you know? Yeah. Yeah, it's human nature.

Tract homes and steel framing

10:43Yeah, I didn't know that house was made with steel. That's interesting. Yeah, they were called Phoenix House was the name of that specific type of houses in France. And they were pretty common, I think, because they could be built fairly quickly because it was, you know, steel. And they actually, I think it provided a lot of flexibility too in like how you can, like what you could do to it because of that. I think I have, when I was in school, I asked my dad for the plans of the house to try and

11:15like look into it. I forgot where that led me. But yeah, it was pretty interesting. But, you know, it was kind of like the similar, you know, tract home you see in like suburban neighborhood in California, for example, where they're each kind of like variations on the theme. And that's what our neighborhood kind of was, you know? I think it's cool. I think that's cool. The theme and variation.

11:38Yeah. I mean, my childhood house was also pretty much a, what do they call it? California ranch is like the style, quote style. It was a tract house.

Real estate marketing and misleading labels

11:49You know what pisses me off the most is like whenever I see a real estate listing that says a mid-century and I'm like, I'm like, ooh, mid-century. Ooh, you got me right there with those keywords. Let's check it out. And I look at the pictures and I'm like, okay. I mean, again, they're built in the 1950s. Yes, it's the middle of the century. So technically they are mid-century. But you know that if you use those words, you're going to create a certain vision in people's mind as to like what that means. I'm like, this is not it.

12:20The part that is, so I think it's deceiving. Um, but in a certain way that deception is quickly, you know, overcome because anyone who then sees the house or sees a picture of the house is like, okay, well, you're clearly using words to attract people to get to the listing, but it's not really an accurate, you know, description of the style or the quality of the house. But what, what, what I think what happens also is that the negative impact of, of certain

12:52words, whether it be about styles or whether it be about construction type, anything like labels that we just throw out there, become widely used is that it actually ends up creating an idea about what that word means. And sometimes that's a new meaning. Um, and so, especially in the case of styles, it's easy to create is actually really easy to create a style. You just use a word and you assign that word to a certain set of structures and you just blast it all over the media through Zillow, through art daily, to zine, you know, TV

13:26shows, whatever. And suddenly it is now a thing. And I think that's unfortunate because a lot of times it's not a thing. Like you, you, you made it into something just for the sake, because you needed to give it a word to sell, but it's not actually a thing. It was never a thing and it had no substance to even be considered to, you know, be, be a thing. And it creates a lot of confusion because then you have, oops, the, the general, um, so you have this made up, you have this made up thing. Then you have all these people, the general public who now think that this thing is a

13:59thing, but it's not, it's, it's nothing. And, uh, it's, it's weird because then we end up living in this, um, in this, in this kind of fake reality where there's all of this, all these, you know, the meaning, meanings that, that no, that's not, it actually is not real. Um, you know, uh, and I, that's, that's the more troubling part of it for me. But it's almost, but like, you know, in the case of like real estate, for example, would they use all those words?

14:29I'm like, okay, well, I hope that, you know, most people know that, that, that is not it. And actually anyone who reads any like kind of like cheesy description about, uh, like a home for sale on like one of those listings, it's like, oh, who buys this bullshit? You know what I mean? Like, oh, open kitchen and this, and that, you know, like the grand description of this, I don't know, incredible home they're describing. And then you, you read that and you look at the pictures and it's like, I mean, I mean,

15:00yeah, it's kind of a stretch. I guess this is a based in natural light and, you know, panoramic views and whatever. Okay. Yeah. I could see this side, this side straight on. Um, okay, cool. You know, like how much, like, do we still have to be doing that kind of like marketing, you know, advertisement pitch, or could we go past this bullshit and just describe what things are? And maybe it's just, I mean, you could still put nice adjectives and, you know, like make

15:31it sound good without making it sound over the top and describing something that it isn't. Well, I think there's two sides of it. Um, the first is that those listings are created by a salesperson. Yeah. Okay. So a real estate agent, they have a certain set of knowledge and they perform a certain set of tasks, but more so than other professions related to buildings, they are salespeople, people, uh, probably, probably first and foremost.

16:03And the problem with the real estate, uh, industry agent industry is that you of course have the outliers who are really good, exceptional and do bring value as in the case of any craft or profession, but you have like 90% of them know very little and like 80% of them know zero and they're like part timers. So the vast majority therefore of real estate agents, they're just salespeople.

16:33That's their objective to sell this thing, to make money so they can pay for their own house, pay for food on the table or buy more cars, what the fuck they're doing. Right. And that's why they're listening to type that way. That's the sole objective is to sell. And when you combine that with the fact that they don't actually understand architecture buildings or architecture history or styles or anything, they therefore don't really care about the integrity of what they're saying because that's not, they, most of the real

17:05estate agents, they didn't, they weren't trained architects or contractors. They were fucking, when Hollywood, they were like actors or some other whatever nonsense stuff, right? Actors aren't nonsense, but whatever bullshit thing, then they come over to real estate because they think it's easy. And so they have, they don't come from the same place as like the, the, uh, I would say like the true building professionals. Actually, I think we talked about that before, but is there like a, um, a degree in real estate? Yeah, there is. Oh, there is. But, um. But most people don't come from that degree.

17:35No, are you kidding me? I mean, I meet a lot of real estate agents, like the majority of them, they came into real estate, like later on in life or after they tried something else. They don't have a degree in like, a lot of times the degrees are like more, uh, like real estate and development, you know, which is more complex than just being a, excuse me, a real estate agent. But anyway, so, so that's first is that it's a sales pitch, right? The other, I forgot the other, it went on for too long. What was the other thing you were commenting about the styles and this and that?

18:09I was saying that do we have to still do kind of like this over the top? Yeah. You know, narrative. And so here's the other side of that is people need to be told what something is in order for them to understand what that thing is to either shape their belief, uh, well, to shape their belief and their understanding of things. Um, it's sort of like a parallel is, well, if you have a design, why do you need to present

18:39the design? Why do you need to put words to the design? Why can't you just show the design to the client or the jury and that's it? That's fine. And no, but I don't, I think you could still explain and put words onto that, but I think the words don't have to be like hamped up too much. Like, you know, and I, I mean, I, you know, and I get it. Like you want to get people excited. So therefore you don't want to just be describing what you see. You want to put a bit, you want to put some emotion into it and excitement. This house has five windows.

19:09One window is bigger than the others. Like you don't want to be too dry in the description, but I think there was kind of a middle ground. Like, I don't know. Sometimes I read some of those things and I'm like, did this person hide? Like who wrote this? Like, if you look at the photo, I'm like, this is a dump. Like, let's not, you know, let's not pretend this is a princess house. This is a dump. Okay. This house is. This is a teardown. Keywords I've heard before. Interesting. Unique. Has.

19:40Potential. Potential. Is homey.

19:45Is waiting for the right buyer.

19:48Great starter home. Yeah. It's funny. You know, I told you I've been, I've been watching that French TV show. I think in English, the title is like the Parisian agency on Netflix. And they have. L'agence de Paris. Well, in French, it's just l'agence. Oh. Excusez-moi. And I think they have about like five seasons. And I kind of started just because I was, you know, I needed a show to watch on my own when I'm waiting for you, when you shower to like watch something. But here's the thing. You're always, you're always talking about, you don't want to think about work. No, but this is interesting because they're French and they speak French.

20:21So I feel like I'm reconnecting with my roots. And they do generally seem like interesting, cool people as well. No, they, I mean, like I cannot stand the real estate American TV reality TV shows. Like selling Sunset or whatever nonsense. I, I, I, I don't know what, I want to either kill someone or throw up or like break the TV or all of it at the same time when I, and when I see advertisement for this stuff. It's like that, the cardation, like those are things that I, I really wish did not ever existed.

20:56So I cannot handle these. But the French version, it's actually much more interesting.

Parisian real estate and French television

21:02You know, they're based in Paris. So I get to see a little glimpse of, of Paris in the show. It's a family business. So, and, and actually they seem like nice people. You know, it's like the parents and they are like three sons, four sons who, you know, are all in, in the business and whatever. So it's kind of like they did a good balance of, you know, like making it feel personal, but also talk about real estate. And I'm mostly honestly just curious to see like, what is the real estate market like in France? Although I am from France, I don't know what that is because I left, you know, when I was young.

21:34So I've never really like got exposed to that or know much about it. So I'm just generally curious about, you know, how it works there. What does, what do things look like? Like the price range, what do you get? You know, and then again, like always compare it to here in the States. So I just find it interesting that, that sense. What do you, so what are some of the key takeaways you've, you've, you've learned so far and there's differences?

22:00Oh, I should also say that from what I've seen in the show, the show is interesting because they serve, like you said, there's a bunch of brothers and they, and there's the parents and whatever else. They service a bunch of different clients. So it's not like they have. Well, it's a prettier client. Okay. Yeah, no, true. You know, like, like from, as the season go up, obviously their business has grown, they've become more famous and, you know, they kind of like branch to a more exclusive clientele. But yeah, I mean, it's not really like the starter, you know, the last seasons, like people's budgets are like, oh, between like three and five million.

22:32I'm like, okay, I have five million. That's just not most people, you know? I mean, it's euros, so it's less than the dollars, but still. So there are in the upper tier, I would say. And differences, I mean, in terms of price, it's not necessarily cheaper there. Although it depends. If you get out of Paris, you can buy a castle for a million and a half. I'm like, what are you people doing here? Spending a million dollars on like a crappy mid-century house? You have to completely gut-free model. Go to France, buy a castle. Put it on Airbnb.

23:03Like, no, but, you know, that's also why it's interesting to watch that show because it just kind of like shows you the different perspective and what that dollar or euro amount could mean depending on where you're in the world. And the differences is just crazy. Yeah. Right? And where the value is put. Oh, it's the location. Oh, it's, you know, how old is the structure? Oh, it's like how many bedrooms you have? Oh, it's just kind of like all over the map. There is no standard. Well, a lot of it is like, you know, they always say location, location, location. So the structure itself becomes, you know, secondary in a lot of instances.

23:37I mean, you go even further, you look at probably Tokyo or New York. I mean, you're spending a million and a half for like a bedroom. A bedroom with like a plug-in cooktop, you know, and people spend like 25 million on what would be considered a really small, you know, like condo and L.A. standards. But the show is interesting because, you know, again, like as the season goes, their agency is kind of evolving. So they started, you know, just as a family business, the six of them.

24:07And now, you know, season five, they actually have like hundreds of agents across the country and in other countries as well. Like the brothers are going to start a franchise. And, you know, it's kind of interesting just to see like how, like their evolution too, right? But it's funny, in the last season, they had properties that they were showing, I think, in Spain, in Belgium, one in Hong Kong. I think the worst one was in Hong Kong. I think it was like this crappy house from probably the, I don't know, 50s or something.

24:41Like, oh yeah, on the hill, nothing around, like great view to like the ocean, the lake or whatever crap, right? On an island, like private, you know, little port till you arrive with your boat and whatever. I'm like, fine. And then you can tell, just a camera angle shows the house, but it shows it a little quickly. So you don't see that the flashing's peeling off, there's like stained paint on the facade under the balcony. And then they're filming the bathroom and the grout job is terrible and needs to be redone. And I'm like, again, this was, I don't know, let's say a $5 million house.

25:13And I'm like, but it's crap construction, like, you know, insane. So anyway, so on that note, that's very interesting. But, and so, so, so that's that. I do, it's interesting to see like, kind of like what the clientele there is looking for, you know, versus here. A lot of times it's still like, you know, bedroom and bathroom counts, you know, stuff like that. Like, how big is the living room I like to host? Well, you know, in Paris could be challenging. Can I have an outdoor space? I'm looking for a rooftop terrace.

25:44So, you know, kind of like, again, it's like a more exclusive clientele. So there were kind of like those special things, but it's always cool to see, you know, the more unique, you know, apartments in Paris of spaces that were converted. And, and mostly from a design standpoint, like how those things got resolved and kind of put together. A lot of the time, it's a little clunky. I have to say that I'm kind of like, I could have done better. Yeah. Like, what is this? Sometimes you see like real gems, like you could tell, like, this was really well designed, really well furnished.

26:14And I'm like, this is like, like even better than some of the, you know, expensive homes you see here in LA for like, you know, three times the price that that place was in Paris. I'm like, you know, there is kind of an interesting comparison. But it makes me think though, at some point in time, are we going to need real estate agents? Because like literally their use is, I guess there's maybe three parts to it. One is having a database, right?

26:44So they download information from the client and say, okay, give me your criteria list. Here's my database. Okay. These are the five or six or 10 or 12 that you're going to see. They go and see it. The real estate agent does some talking when they're there, right? Some of it's factual, like, oh, here's the history of the place, whatever. Other times, like you said this, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're doing the picture, filling the gaps. And it's like, yeah, but if fucking anyone with eyes can see what's here, they don't need to be told that there's like, you know, windows there.

27:15I know, I know. I'm like, you know, watching the show and it's like, okay, so this is the living room. I'm like, well, obviously this is the living room. You have like tall windows for all the things. Well, obviously we can all see that. And then sometimes they start saying stuff, they're like, oh, so we have this beautiful marble fireplace, which was like carved in the mess. And I'm like, I'm like, no, it wasn't. It's made of three pieces. Like the corners are rounded. There is obviously a seam here. I'm like, no, it's not made of this. One of them was like, this sub was like, you know, like carved in the floor.

27:46And that was the house in, in Hong Kong. I'm like, no, it's just, the tub is recessed in the floor, but the floor is like wood frame floor. It's not, I'm like, it's not carved in the concrete. No, they, they, they poured it around it. Like, what are you talking about? So it's kind of like, or like, oh, this beautiful marble kitchen counter. You look at it, it's quartz. You can tell even from the video, it's quartz. It's not marble. But so, you know, like, so I'm like, let the designer actually do the, do the tour. That would be the thing to do. Yeah. Yeah.

The necessity of real estate agents

28:15There's a lot to unpack with that. But, but what I'm saying though, is like, I don't understand why you actually need a human being to provide the core services of a real estate agent. You don't, you don't. I mean, you could, you could sell and buy properties directly from the owner, but the thing is. No, no, no, no. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about an AI service or something. Like you don't need. That probably will come. You don't, you don't need a person to, to pull out the half a dozen listings that meet your criteria. AI can do that if AI knows all the listings.

28:47Um, it's not going to be long. They already have scanning devices, but it's not going to be long where it's going to be very easy for the company to send in a floating orb, scan the whole thing. It puts it into their database. And then there's going to be an AI agent says, okay, based on your criteria, here's the six, here's a virtual tour. Uh, okay. You've realized the next, over the course of the last two weeks, you're going to change your criteria because everyone does. Okay, fine. Here are the different six that I would recommend. Here's all the actual stats about it.

29:17Go see it. And, and I, I do think the, and then there's the legal stuff like the paperwork and the contracts and, you know, in the United States escrow, whatever else, but that can be solved also by, yeah. It's not like you're drafting the first for the first time. I do think though, there is a role of a, um, let's say, let's call them an agent, which I say that now, cause that's kind of the wrong word to use and considering AI agents are agents, but there's the human, um, agent or confidant or friend or, um, or representative or thinker

29:53on your behalf, which is that when you go and you walk through a house or you're, anytime you're making a decision, a complex decision and you're the buyer. Okay. You have your list of criteria and you're in the space, but there's probably things about it that even though you're seeing, you don't actually cognitively recognize as being important, uh, relative to your criteria. And I think that is a very critical role. It's actually similar to, uh, I think a lot of industries, but like us, for example, right?

30:25Like I was saying before, design presentation, if we do a design presentation, it could be to clients or to a jury, whoever, there's a thousand different ways that presentation can be read or interpreted. If you tell them like, okay, these are the things that are important for what we've created that tells them what to look at. And the other things are less important or in the case of design presentations, they can change the next time or whatever else. Or in the case of selling a house, it's like, okay, I, I know that you see that there are,

30:58that these windows feel shorter than normal, or I don't know, whatever the fuck it is. But there's another, you know, a bunch of, uh, other aspects and qualities to the space that you're not thinking about because of your preconceptions or because you don't have the eyes. So I'm going to tell you about those. And then it's not uncommon for that buyer to be like, oh, okay. Now that you say that I get it. And now I feel differently about this. And now, you know, I want to buy it or, you know, I don't hate it as much as before. Same thing with design presentations, right? We show design and we'd go through the presentation.

31:30And a lot of times clients like, you know, at first I thought like option one, I was not going to, I didn't like that. But after you talk through, um, you know, all of them, I actually option one. Yeah. It makes the most sense. And there's a, the, the, the, the realization that takes place and they need someone to coach them through their, uh, the thinking to get there. No, that's true. But, but at the same time, I think a simple AI, you know, headset, phone, whatever agent that you hold in your hand can just tell you this stuff as you're walking through the space.

32:02You know, like when you go through museums, they have the pre-recorded headsets instead of a pre-recorded AI agent. Or you just reach out to David and Marina and they come and tell you. But I, I do, I do agree though, that the whole thing of people, anybody just making stuff up, like don't fucking say that. If you don't know, don't say it. And that's one of the biggest offenders for real estate agents is they're constantly saying stuff that that's not true. You know, or sometimes they're like, you know, suggesting design ideas.

32:34Like I remember that one of those brothers was showing a house to this lady who had like three kids and she wanted a kitchen that was closed and the property didn't have one. It's like, well, you know, you could just like, it's easy to see like how you add glass doors here. And she's like, oh, I hate glass doors.

32:51I'm like, well, you know, here you go. Another thing that was very interesting in watching the show is that interestingly enough, it seems like at least they're a Parisian, let's say Parisian clientele, when they are buying apartments, they are not thinking of changing the decor or like the finishes. They're thinking like they're buying it the way, the way it is.

33:18And I thought that was very interesting. I'm like, what? You're not going to redo? Well, maybe because it's more of a headache to do in an urban environment. Maybe, maybe. And a lot of them also want to buy everything. Like all the whole, like all the furniture or the artwork that comes with the place, like they want the place as they see it. And I was like, this is very interesting because it's not, I mean, I feel like here it could happen, but it's mostly like if you have a developer who staged it and people are moving from across the country and they don't want to have to deal with furnishing a house, like maybe they buy it furnished.

33:49Or someone ultra wealthy and it's a second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, sixth. But like, but there it's, it's more than, I guess, very common that people are like, it does it come with the furnishing and the, and the, and the artwork and this and that. Hmm. Right. I don't know. This might be reading into it too much. I'm sure there's an economic and logistical aspect to, to that. But culturally, I could also see where maybe there's a cultural difference too. Like Americans are very much known for, and it's true, like they, their idea of self-independence

34:20and they want their like own thing to be theirs. Well, consumerism is also very high here. Is that related to people wanting to do construction? I don't know if that's related to them. No, but people wanting to buy their own stuff, not wanting to use, you know. Um, yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe, um, maybe I could see that.

Sponsors and product integration

34:42And now let's give a shout out to our sponsors who support our show. The second studio is brought to you by chaos. They make award-winning design and visualization tools, and they're really pushing the boundaries with AI. As we all know, AI is shaking up the architecture and design world and chaos is taking a responsible approach. Their tools are built to help architects, designers, and visualization specialists work faster and explore more ideas without replacing creativity. Basically chaos wants AI to make your imagination stronger and not take over. So you get to design with more freedom, create stunning visuals, and stay in control of

35:15your work. If you want to see what that looks like, tap the chaos link in our show notes. This episode is brought to you by Ace Lab. If you've ever spent an afternoon chasing a material change through five different documents, then this one's for you. Normally, when a product gets swapped out, suddenly you're updating the spec, the finish schedule, the keynotes, the sustainability report, all of these things manually, every single time. It's the kind of thing that makes you question your life choices. But Ace Lab's Material Hub fixes that. One record per material decision and every document flows from it automatically. Change the selection and your specs, schedules, keynotes, and Revit drawings all update with

35:49it. Over 250,000 products, over 10,000 brands, real sustainability data, and direct Revit integration. Learn more by tapping the Ace Lab link in our show notes. The DAF thing also is, you know, so much of these TV shows and what happens with real estate agents is real estate agents talking about a property and describing it to potential buyers. And on the one hand, it makes sense because that takes a lot of time to do. Someone needs to do that.

36:19It's not going to be the architect or designer because we don't have to, I'm too busy. Like I'm creating stuff. I'm not here to just sell things that are done, but it's also really strange because why are you the one talking about it when you actually don't, you don't have a degree, you haven't studied this stuff, you don't understand these things, you didn't create it, you didn't bother to take the time to really study what took place from the, in the creation of this thing. Like, did you talk to the person who created this thing for them to tell you what you

36:53should be saying and whatever? No, you went in and you made up your own story and you're selling that story to someone else. And like you have, you know, three out of 10 facts are incorrect. And the part that's even weirder to me is that those agents from the eyes of buyers somehow like get way more credit than they deserve. It's almost like as if via osmosis or proximity that they are responsible for the design. But of course, no.

Overpaid agents and conflicts of interest

37:26And then jumping to the mindset of the real estate agent, so many real estate agents, especially the successful ones, they think that they understand design and they act as if they designed it. Like they have the pride and the attitude of this like amazing feat that they've overcome and this accomplishment because they sold this thing. You didn't do anything to create that thing. You fucking idiot. And again, a lot of the stuff you're saying is just not true.

37:56Yeah. So it is mind boggling that that kind of performance or the things that are not correct, just the false statements are allowed to exist. Like it should be illegal to. It is, in fact, I'm sure it's somehow illegal to say something false about a thing you're selling. Oh, yeah. Sure.

38:19And then I'll be honest, like of all the professions, real estate agents and realtors, that's like the one where no one in the building industry thinks that they are paid fairly, but on the lower end of it. Everyone thinks they're overpaid. Buyers think they're overpaid. Sellers think everyone thinks they're overpaid and they are for really what most of them do and why there should be some, should be more regulation on it. You know, there was an attempt to, for that to happen.

38:50It didn't really work out, whatever, but like, you know, uh, it's just, uh, it's not to say again that there aren't really good ones and those, those good ones don't deserve to be rewarded. Of course, if the top of your game, you deserve to be rewarded, but there should not be an industry that's at the intersection or as a bridge between everybody and the most, one of the three most fundamental aspects of living, which is housing. And that bridge gets to charge an arm and a leg relative to their service. How does it make any sense at all when they're spewing nonsense?

39:21A lot of times it's bananas. Well, and it's also, I think a conflict of interest that they are the ones establishing how, like, what's the value of a house? Like they're paid on a percentage of the price of the sale, but they're making the sales price. So it's like, well, don't we think there is a huge conflict of interest here? Yeah. I mean, of course, that's why the, you know, the, the real estate market is so out of whack, especially in California, because at some point there is no more limit.

39:54And that, you know, that crappy teardown from built in 1950s, who's worth nothing is going to sell for a million and a half here. And it should not be allowed because it makes no sense. And we're not even talking about prime location in like, you know, fancy neighborhood. We're talking about like pretty suburban beat up town with nothing around, but like street malls. And it's like that. Yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's insane. Do you say street malls or strip malls? Strip malls. Street malls is actually a more accurate description of strip malls.

40:27So now that I think of it. That's true. That's true. That's true. Um, I, I, I had a, not a friend, but, um, I don't know, a person that I'd met a while ago and he was not a friend. Yeah, no, just an acquaintance. Um, he, his background was banking, uh, something unrelated, I think to, to any of this stuff, but he also has a real estate agent's license. So he is a real estate agent and I was talking to him and he's like, yeah, I got my license. He's like, it was super easy.

40:59And he's like, and, um, and he's like, uh, I'll help my friends. I'll like, I'll be the agent for them and I'll be the agent so they can do the transaction and I'll help him through the necessary paperwork because I know enough about that. He's like, I don't charge him. I said, I, I'll charge him like, I don't know, like 10 grand or something, like not 150 grand. You know, he's like, yeah, I just charged him with a couple thousand dollars. Like, I don't, he's like, and to be honest, it's still good money for me. Like the amount of hours I spend is still good money. And it's ridiculous that anyone would charge more than that.

41:30Um, he's like, and I certainly, he's like, I would never charge like that amount. He's like, it's just not necessary. Now, of course, to play devil's advocate for a lot of agents, right? They're not guaranteed a commission until the transaction happens. So there is potentially, and oftentimes a lot of wasted time and conversations with people before, uh, you know, it takes place, which I get. Yeah. But it's serious. I mean, how many conversations have you had to sell one house? If you look at, if you look at the complexity of, of, of the tasks at hand and just how much

42:04money they make a year, you're going to reverse calculate that, you know, by 2000 ish hours in a year, it's an exorbitant amount of money sometimes. And again, for what? Cause you're a bridge, you're a toll booth.

House design royalties and artist comparisons

42:15You know, I was thinking like for, I don't know, like agents, it's agents in California who sell homes that were designed by architects that are still alive, you know, when they do open house on the weekends, what they should do is actually have, I don't know, pay the architect for a couple of hours to come and actually do a presentation of the house. And I'm sure that would be a lot more exciting and, and, and, and, and interesting for potential buyers than, you know, just like, again, the basic descriptive tour.

42:49Yeah, they should. And what they should do is kick over a chunk of, of what their earnings to the person who created the structure. There should be royalties on houses that were properly designed. Now it becomes difficult. How do you say, how do you define what's properly designed versus not properly designed? Yeah, I get all that fine, whatever, but there should be, that was the interesting thing about NF, NFTs, the royalties could be baked into the NFT. So when someone buys the NFT, you know, that artist obviously makes money from that transaction,

43:22but that buyer, the new owner sells it, they make money, but the original creator also still makes money from the thing. And that is the most logical thing in my view, because it's like, well, the person who kicked this all off by creating this thing from nothing probably deserves to get paid over time. Rather than letting collectors, by default, people who have extra cash, wealthy, just keep making more and more and more money by trading these things like, you know, baseball cards. Like, that doesn't make sense to me.

43:53I mean, it's interesting because, yeah, and I think that's kind of like, again, going back to the conversation of, you know, is architecture art? Like, an artist will have royalties of what they sell, how often their music is being used in movies and, you know, whatever. Like, if a painting gets published or gets here and there, like, you know, they make money off of that. A house, it's almost like it really should, because if it, again, if it gets listed multiple times or sold multiple times and every time the value of the house, you know, goes up,

44:25that would be, that would make sense. It would make sense, yeah. And I'm not talking about, like, 50%, but it should be something. I mean, I think it would come down to, like, well, how do you determine which house gets that and which one doesn't, you know? Yeah. But I don't know. Maybe if it was designed by a licensed architect, then therefore you automatically get a little bit of that happening. Something. I mean, look, the, the, across the board, the reward system that's in place in the United States, in a lot of, I think, Western countries, but in the United States, it makes no sense.

44:58The people who are benefited, are rewarded, have it easiest, are there ones who already have achieved or were gifted, you know, everything. It's all very, very, very backward. Um, but with an art space, like, I don't know anybody in the AEC industry, architecture, engineering, construction. It was like, yeah, real estate agents, they're paid exactly what they should be paid. Nobody thinks that. Um, the other part for me that I think is disturbing and it's baked into the structure of their,

45:34of the agent's existence. Because the piece that I find disturbing is that they have to sell what they have and they don't a lot of times get to choose their stock because they didn't create it, right? If I have a shoe company and I create my own shoes, I'm going to sell you my shoes. I'm going to sell them hard because I have to sell them, but also because I made them and I had a say in what they look like. And presumably I believe in that this shoe is the best shoe in the world or whatever. Real estate agents, you know, they exist in different tiers.

46:05So there's some amount of like, so pre-selection of, of their stock based on the tier that they're in and where they've gotten in their career and whatever. But kind of that aside, you know, they're like a, it's almost like they're a Goodwill store, you know, a Goodwill store is like a secondhand store where people like give stuff to the store and then they resell it. Yeah, I know what Goodwill is. No, no, I'm for the listeners. God. I'm confused. I'm like, I've given stuff to Goodwill before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This kind of like a Goodwill store in the sense that, you know, it's like whatever, whatever

46:40people are, are, are, have to sell within that, you know, the tier that you happen to be in as an agent. And so they could have legitimately in the Goodwill store, like a vintage Louis Vuitton first edition, whatever, fuck handbag thing. Okay. They could legitimately have that. They could also have next to it, a Kmart special handbag that it, you know, was made from the eighties in China or some nonsense and it's falling apart and they're going to sell you both equally hard. Right. And both are amazing.

47:11Both have panoramic views. Both have hardwood floors, natural daylight and open concept. Quartz kitchen countertop. All of the buzzwords, they both have those things. And how do you trust somebody when they're going to sell you as aggressively, no matter what they have for the most part. Right. Um, not all agents are evil. So someone would be like, well, look, we could do better than this one. Let's keep looking, blah, blah, blah. But you got to wonder if in their bag, if in their store of Goodwill, you've run through

47:47all of the products. Are they going to still keep, be honest with you and say, let's keep waiting. Probably not. At some point they're going to be like, no, you know what? Consciously or subconsciously, I'm going to switch gears. I'm going to sell you this thing. Cause this is what I have. And I need, I need, I need, I need money. Right. Yeah. Like, how do you trust someone to make a qualitative, have an accurate, you know, qualitative take about something when they're trying to sell you the thing and they, they didn't, they didn't make it. It's just weird. Yeah. I probably wouldn't be a very good real estate agent.

48:18I would be trashing everything. Like this one sucks. Next. And the buyers be like, you know, you've showed us like 10 things. You hate all of them. Oh yeah. They're all terrible. Okay. Yeah. You would only belong in like this tiny percentage of real estate. Are you going to find me a good one? I don't know. It's out of my hands, to be honest. I get what I get.

European modern architecture standards

48:40But, you know, going back to my, my TV show I was watching is that, you know, I'm always, again, I'm always very intrigued to compare, you know, what's over there versus what's over here. And like, and mostly in terms of like modern, uh, modern homes and modern, you know, construction and projects to see like how modern is done, you know, in Europe. And I have to say that, again, a lot of the times, you know, like the fancy villas in the South of France that you buy for 20 million or whatever are so underwhelming.

49:12Yeah. I'm like, Oh man, I'm like, no, I'm like, I could have done so much better than what's, what's, what, what is this? And, and again, you know, they're selling it like it's an incredible. And a lot of people, you know, their clients are like amazed because again, it's not that common. It's different. It's big. It's modern. And like, you know, like here you come to LA, you look for modern and like people wouldn't be amazed with what they're seeing over there because there is a lot of amazing things. But over in Europe, there's not, you know, as many, I would say, I'm always like, Oh,

49:45like this is not worth the price. Go buy that old castle. Like that's a better investment, you know, than this thing. It's just, it's, I don't know, very interesting. Every time I watch an episode where there is, you know, that happening, I'm like, Oh, we should start an, we should start an office in France just so we can do modern there because I feel like there is a space for people to understand how it should be done and it's not how the way it's been done. It's so, but you know what I mean? I mean, honestly, that would be not a dream of mine, but that would be a good goal of mine

50:20to one day, like have, you know, one of our office there, you know, kind of like going full circle, but also to kind of like bring back what I've learned from like living on the other side of the world back to where I came from and, and kind of like, you know, make sure that, well, but then it's like the whole like, okay, how construction works there and they are the role of the architect is very different than the one here. And, you know, like figure it out, licensing, you know, that's why that'd be just, you've

50:51just, we find a local who's more of a technician, but I would be very, uh, and less interested in design that won't do design part. I would be very interested in doing that because I do, I do think that first of all, there is so many beautiful places, uh, you know, in, let's say like, you know, France and surrounding countries where you could build with like history, like incredible landscape that is not, you know, just more wild and untouched. And like, like, how do you build in places like that, you know, where there is so much

51:24just authenticity, like how do you make sure that whatever modern thing you're going to build is going to feel like that. And there is honestly a few really gem homes that were in that, um, that last season of the show that were like incredibly well done, very few, but you know, it's just, you know, like you could do that like here in LA, for example, but you don't have, the surrounding is not as loaded with, with emotion and purity and all that stuff. And I just, if you build in a place like that, it's just, I think it just makes the

51:57architecture and the place even better. So that would be, that's also where it's even more depressing when you see a mediocre piece of modern architecture. I know, I mean, you fucked up here. Like, oh yeah, you know, the architect wanted to build in the face of the hill and this and that, and you have like X amount of square meter of terrace and rooftop. And I'm looking at it and I'm like, come on, like, this is ultra boring. Like, what are you people doing? Like, and I'm assuming your critique is more, is mostly just like the formal execution of the project, not so much as it's conceptual, you know, spying, because that's not really

52:31talked about in the show. No, no, it's really like, okay, does this look beautiful? Like, was this really the best railing you could have picked for this? Proportions, materials, like that kind of stuff. Like, okay, the entrance of the house, a house of this price in this location, really? Like, you did not even design this. Or like, okay, well, sometimes it's like, okay, you had a party of having different tiers in the living room or whatever. Does it feel right for the size of the space? Maybe not. You know, I mean. I toggle back and forth between a response that is, well, you know, designing a house

53:04or any building, but let's say a house, um, well, it's not an easy thing to do. Like some days and some instances, that's my, what I would say. And other moments I'd be like, it's not that fucking difficult to do it. You know, doing it, doing it really, really, really well, like super well, maybe not masterpiece level, but really well, that takes a lot of work. Like, but doing it good, it's not that difficult to do it good, like just good, like, uh, you know, in, in terms of school rankings, like, you know, getting a 5.0 grade point average,

53:39that's difficult, but like getting a B, it's not that difficult to get a B right. Doing a B grade architecture, a B plus grade, it's not that difficult. And the, for people listening, the average that's out there is probably like a D, a D minus. And a lot of the ones that are designed are still like D pluses, C minuses. Like they're really not like good. Like it doesn't take that much more work to make it substantially better. I think it's with a lot of things, right? To go from crappy to above average is a massive difference in quality.

54:15But I think, I guess for quote experts, it's easy to get there. But that last like 10% to get all the way up to like 99 or, you know, the A plus or whatever it is, that's where it becomes really difficult to do. And that's the part that bothers me where it's like, you know, when we're talking, you're talking, our lens of critique is not like, well, it's not a, it's not a hundred percent out of a hundred percent. It's not a 5.0 grade average or four. It sucks. No, I'm talking about like just B, a B level, like 85% on the scorecard.

54:48That's not difficult to do. Um, and I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's, there are enough talented architects, designers, whatever, and they're just not being paired with the right people. And therefore those people, the clients, people with money are finding the wrong architects. Or if there's a larger population of untalented architects out there, uh, maybe it's a combination of all of them. But, but like, I don't know, like the difference in community and that the community's understanding

55:22of good design is what boggles my mind still to this day.

Professional expertise versus popular taste

55:26Community is one, the architecture community, meaning the people who went to school with, the, the, the teachers we studied under the colleagues we'd had when we worked at offices or, you know, people working for us now or other, other, our colleagues now who have their own offices like us, like that's all the community, like the understanding of design and what, what we would collectively say is good or bad design, you know, as, as one thinking the difference between that and like everyone else though, and what happens in the world

55:56is so crazy that it, it, like I said, it boggles my mind. I don't understand how there could possibly be this much distance between these, between these two spheres when you have one of the spheres architecture, you know, has, it's sort of a relatively new profession, but not like it's been around for a really fucking long time. Like, how is it that, that level of understanding of architecture and design and good tastes and beauty and materials and light, how does that not bleed over into the larger, you know,

56:27community more? Like, like, again, you see what's built, you see what agents say regarding the thing, you see what people say about this and that structure. And it's like, you guys are so off base. Like I was remarking earlier this week, you know, one or another, none of my pet peeves with, um, agents or just people on social media, everything's excellent. Everything's amazing. Everything's, everything's a superb, everything's whatever adjective. And it's like, yeah, but no, it's not, it's not stop saying that.

57:00Oh, no, I know what it was. I was, I was visiting someone recently and they're like, oh, isn't that cool? They were showing me, you know, uh, someone else's house, someone else's house, whatever it was. They're like, oh, isn't that cool? Look at this thing. That's a cool thing. That's a cool thing. I'm like, none of this is cool. Like, you know, I'm there like nodding along, but I'm like, you guys, like none of this is actually cool. If you are a friend with David, do not invite him to your house and shoot him. Well, I'll be nice to your face, but then you might be one of the anonymous people I speak about, you know, on the show. So, but it's, it's, but how much, I mean, well, I do more of the going out than you do.

57:34So, but I'm constantly having to head nod to people because I'm not going to go out and be a dick, but I'm like, you don't respond. I'm like, it's, it's, it's nothing from like, do you want my honest opinion or you do not want, want my polite opinion because they were not the same. No, I know. Yeah. But that's what I'm saying too. Right. Like those two communities, like the larger community, like the idea of what cool is in their minds. You ask any actual architect or anyone from our community who studied, they're like, no,

58:05it's not cool. That is a D minus, like at best. Like, what are we talking about? Cool. It's not cool. It's super fucking lame and gross and stupid. And it's a sales pitch thing. And it's tacky. It's, it's all kinds of bad. It's not, but it's not well executed either. It's bad. And I mean, imagine I'm trying to compare it to like a normal, but it's not a lot of other profession or something. It's like, you're showing to your friend who's a movie producer, your little weekend iPhone movie of your kid's birthday party.

58:38It's like, well, do you think Christopher Nolan is going to say, this is incredible. This is cool and exciting. No, it's going to say, don't fucking waste my time. That's what it's going to say. And these are also, you know, these structures are for the public. Like someone's going to, someone else is going to live with them, buy them, and they're going to be around for a long time. Like there's a lot at stake with these things. Yeah. Um, and just the standards, I guess, are super low and they're actually, there's no act. There's no, there's no true understanding of standards.

59:10Uh, apparently. Cause no, there is no standards. Uh, but not even understanding of it. Cause again, I think everyone is using the wrong adjectives to describe, you know, they're talking about this thing as if it's like a, uh, uh, like a Ferrari or something. Ooh, Ferrari. I'm like, no, it's not, this is like a, this is a shit box car. This is, I don't know. I'm not, I don't know my cars. This is a, whatever car that was made in the 1980s, you know, it lasted for like five years that it stopped selling. Cause it doesn't make any sense.

59:40Stop trying to convince everyone that it's cool. It's not. Well, I think that's also one of the maybe criticism of maybe American in general is their, um, uh, hyped up, uh, enthusiasm about anything, you know, and it goes, well, and I think it goes back to understanding what is the true value of, of things in general. Like is the value in, in the, uh, achievement and the value is in the quality of the item

1:00:15being made is the value into, uh, how much you're going to sell it for. Like, you know, I think that's the, uh, I think that's kind of the, um, the issue, you know, and you think it's because, uh, truer understanding of values is just outside of the culture or it takes too long to. Things are too much on the surface here. And so it's easy to get hemmed up if you just look at the outer layer, but if you actually

1:00:48scratch under that layer and see what's underneath and you realize it's shit, well, then your enthusiasm is dead. So you don't bother. You just kind of stay on the surface, be happy forever, enthusiastic about every single thing that comes your way and, and move along, you know? But see, that's the other part is that, and maybe it's because of the profession that we're in and because of, and, and all the stuff I've said in this recording is evidence, um, before this, but that's the confusing part is I would never look at another industry and

1:01:20start making claims about what is good and bad in the way that people do about architecture if I don't know that industry. So, you know, architects have a pretty good eye for beauty, beauty of, of buildings, but beauty also of artwork, of sculptures, of just anything visual, right? We're visual people. And then conceptually, we're however, if we think you were very strong in terms of our conceptual thinking yet, I, I don't think I would ever state so fervently my opinion about an artwork

1:01:55and say it's good or bad because I just don't, I don't know that world. I could say subjectively like, ugh, I don't like that, but that's just my subjective opinion. I'm not going to go around saying, Hey, this is amazing. This is, this is amazing. It's, it's, it has open concept, you know, the equivalent of for art. I'm not going to do that. I don't understand it. And it reminds me. So for whatever reason, the last few weeks I've seen on Instagram, a few times, different celebrities post their artwork that they do. Cause they're doing like a, a, uh, uh, an event they're selling, they're auctioning, selling

1:02:28their artwork and the comment section is pretty brutal because it's, it's actual artists commenting on, on it or on the work. And they're like, no, this is just full stop. Well, it's like expert versus DIY, you know, I mean, it is, but when you have a celebrity, I think one of them was like Adrian Brody, uh, another one, which is, this is older news, but, uh, Jade, who's what's Will Smith's kid? Jaden.

1:02:58Oh, I don't know. I'm trying to forget about this family. Yeah. Likewise. But the, the, the, there's a daughter, Willow was a daughter. I think Jaden is the, is the kid, uh, I guess it's Will for Willow and Jade, whatever the fuck anyway. Um, but the son, you know, he, he did some acting, but I don't know what he does for these days, but he had become the new, uh, whatever person for Louboutin maybe about a year ago or so. And he created a new line of shoes and stuff for Louis Vuitton. And from what I could tell in the comments, people who seem to know more about fashion

1:03:30are like, no, this is a hard pass. Like, and the, the, the, the comment that was reoccurring between Adrian Brody, Jaden Smith, and like, there was someone else that happened to, it was like, these people really should have gone to school for fashion design, for art, for whatever, before they try to step into the space, because they're doing stuff that. And, and I saw comments like multiple times, if they did this in first year or second year, they'd be ripped to shreds and they would learn, okay, to do things better. Now, I think that's interesting because I've made the same exact comment about architecture

1:04:04on here, and it's true, but it also, when I see artwork, I know that it's a, it's a universe of knowledge I don't get. And I would presume also that if I attempted to create a piece of artwork and put it out there and it was widely seen, people, the real artists would shut up. They'd probably say, go back to art school. And I probably would have been like, I need to go to art school because I do not know what I'm doing. I have no grounding, no way to determine what's good or bad or a value or has integrity. And these other people don't either.

1:04:36You know, I saw Adrian Brody. I think Adrian Brody is very self-centered for what it seems like, at least he's talking about like this painting, he represents the urban, this and that. And like, even for me and not an artist, I'm like, this sounds very cliche, mediocre, platitude, platitude, platitude-like. It just, it just, it doesn't sound like anything of, of substance. And sure enough, all the comments from artists are like, this is first year hack stuff. Same exact thing for real estate agents in architecture. They're, they're zero year students in architecture talking about it.

1:05:08Right. And they're in charge of, they've been, they've been, they've been the ones that are now responsible for packaging it and presenting it to the world. That's problematic because they don't know what they're saying. Um, I don't know, man, like the, the lack of respect for, for true professionals and their craft and their trade is, is astonishing. And not just for architects. I mean, for other things too, you know, it's weird. Like, like I wouldn't do that. I'll shoot the shit on a podcast maybe, but I, you know, I wouldn't make like a, an exhibit

1:05:44out of it and I wouldn't make it my life of just talking about other, someone else's industry to make money. Well, I think it was, it's also a certain personality type of people who feel comfortable or do not feel uncomfortable at all doing that. You know, pretending, since basically pretend, it's a game of pretend. And I personally would not be able to do that because I, I can't lie. Like if I don't know something, I'm not going to try and fake my way through. So I think it's just a certain breed of people, you know?

1:06:15I mean, there is, you know, do you have to practice before you, you become proficient at something? So there is knowledge, true, uh, valuable knowledge is gained just by doing it over and over again. If you're a new real estate agent and you've sold two houses, well, you don't have a lot of experience and you have no architecture background. You get to, you get to house 200, well, you probably understand houses pretty well at that point. The question though is on average. So therefore we're excluding this, they're really dumb people and we're excluding the naturally

1:06:46gifted, gifted people, but the average agent or person, are you going to truly be able to understand the thing by just doing that? I don't think so. That's why there's school. That's why there are trades and professions and, and there's mentorships and there's reading and studying. And I think that's the part. Yeah, you know, you're going to get the people who are like, well, but you know, X person is famous and they did it and then they went to school and blah, blah, blah.

1:07:16It's like, okay, fine. You're quoting the 1% of the people who actually were smart and talented in one way or the other and figured it out. But it is not most people. You cannot expect most people to go that route and for them to turn out the best they could be.

1:07:33It's a false, it's an illusion. It's an illusion. And I think also this is all exacerbated by success in the form of wealth and then notoriety in the, in, in, in the form of popularity on social media. And it's, everything just gets super skewed. Um, super, super skewed. All right. Well, another day to rent right there. Enjoy. Any other, so to wrap it up, any other, um, key takeaways?

1:08:04I might become a real estate agent myself, you know, make, uh, uh, twice my annual salary and one weekend every month. I don't know about one week, one weekend a month. That's, that's, that's possible. Uh, you could probably make more sound suggestions. I would be interested in how many architects out there are also licensed realtors. I feel, I feel like, you know, is, is another field that architects should get into is real estate. Uh, because we actually know how to talk about buildings.

1:08:35We actually understand buildings and how they're put together. Well, we didn't understand that, but do we know how to talk about them in a way that is interesting? Well, we need to learn to talk about that in a way that's, you know, more for the, for the common person. So, um, yeah, maybe, you know, if you're looking for a hobby on the weekend, just become a real altering and do that. I think you'll help this profession become a bit more valuable and stop spreading like nonsense out there. Yeah. You know, if you're an architect who became a realtor on the side or full time, uh, reach

1:09:10out. I'm very interested. I know a few, but yeah, I think, I think the challenges is what we do is for the people who are like, I would consider true, true architects. It's a life calling thing. There's really not a lot of architects who are like, yeah, I have spare time to like two other side posts. Well, we have spare time to do a podcast. Well, that's different. We control it. I'm not dealing with fucking random people like, oh, the washer and dryer closet is too small. It's like, look, lady, your budget's tight.

1:09:41Okay. This is not a custom house. Deal with it. It's like some of those clients on the TV show, they're like, I'm not sure about the color of this room. And it's like, do you know Home Depot? Paintbrush, paint bucket, fixed. Next. What's your problem? That's one part of it. I don't know if I could be an agent because dealing with random people and their requests, I'm like, well, go build a house then. What the fuck? You have money. I'll be like, well, do you need an architect? Here's my card. It's just like, what are you doing? I know. Anyway. All right. That's it.

Episode wrap-up and contact details

1:10:11Outro. Outro. Thank you guys for listening to this episode. If you like what we do, please subscribe to the show if you haven't already. We are on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and all of those podcast platforms. You can also find us on social media, Facebook and Instagram, Second Studio Pod. We have the website, secondstudiopod.com. And we have the hotline, 213-222-6950. You can send a text message, call, leave a voicemail. If you have any topics, any questions, any guests you want to send our way, feel free to do so. Cool. Sounds good. Bye.

1:10:42Bye-bye.