#514 - After Hours: Visiting Santa Barbara

Frustrations with professional peers

0:00This is the second studio with two architects, myself, David Lee, and Marina Bordero-Nay. This week it's the two of us in the studio in an after-hours casual chat. Probably start off with me complaining about other people. What the fuck? I'm such a weak... Is it like, is it too much to ask for other people to just do what they claim they're gonna do? It's crazy. Or I outline specific steps. Okay, you need to email that person, find out that, and then do the third thing. Two weeks later, well, what are we doing? Are you kidding me?

0:30People wonder why, you know, things get, schedules get blown, budgets get blown. It's like, well, what do you expect? You know, you have a so-called professionals who are not doing their jobs, or subs, or consultants, or whoever it is. It doesn't actually matter who the person is. It's just crazy. So they'll probably start with that, and then we'll get on to more fun things like Santa Barbara.

0:55It's just insane. It's just insane. I know. Do other architects have this problem? I can't be the only one. I can't, we can't be the only ones. I don't think it's necessarily an architect problem either. This is crazy. People just don't care about what they do. It's crazy.

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Unreliable people in the industry

2:16This is the second studio with the two of us. Here we go. Yeah, I don't know. Some weeks are good, and some weeks are definitely more trying. Um, and this past week or so, it's like, it's like half a, I can name, I could, I could name like six people who would just consistently keep failing at what they're supposed to be doing and, or they're behaving in a way where like, well, don't, don't behave that way. Like, don't, don't be, don't be rude to other people.

2:47Don't be, don't be snarky. Don't be this. Don't be that. Um, and, and I don't understand. I just don't understand it, to be honest. Uh, I just, the thing with the, with, with like professionals as well, I'm like, how do these people get work? How do you continue to get work if every time you're such a pain in the butt to work with, unwilling to have a simple phone call, unwilling to find a solution? It's like, well, then, and if you don't enjoy that, you know, if it's such a nuisance for

3:17you to, to problem solve, then don't do whatever it is that you're doing. Change jobs. Change jobs. Well, I mean, for us, we just won't work with these people again. You know, uh, we just won't work with them again. And, and unfortunately, you know, we, we do our best, we're pretty thorough at vetting people, but it's like the, even if you go into the first, not even the first date with somebody, right? The first, like four dates, it's still just the first four days. You don't really know how it's going to go until you get past that. And that's kind of the, the truth, uh, with, with some, some people, um, you know, references,

3:51all this stuff, like it helps, but you don't really know until you, you hit the, the, the rough patches, uh, which is all, always happens in every project. Um, fortunately, the vast majority of people we work with are really good over the years. We found the right people, but you know, it's always the few, what do they say? The bad apples that cause like the biggest amount of stress. Um, it's always the case. It's like that one, just a few things that kind of blow out of proportion and for good reason as well, because the way these projects, buildings work and their execution is everything's

4:26tied to like another half a dozen things. So it really only takes one of those things to, to, to, to, to cause a bit much bigger problem. Um, and GCs know this for sure. You know, it's like one tiny thing blows the whole schedule because it's tied to, you know, a bunch of other stuff. So anyway, uh, yeah. And, um, the tasks sometimes that these people have to do is they're not complicated either. No, that's probably why they don't care. They're so, it's such straightforward stuff. It's like you point them to the thing.

4:57Like that's the thing. You see that? Whether it be a file, a material, I don't know, whatever it is. You see that thing there, you're going to open that thing and do X, Y, and Z in that order. One, two, three. And, uh, somehow people mess it up and it just, it's, it's very trying. Um, I think it's also the part, part for me, that's frustrating. Feel free to interrupt also, by the way, is that I'm not really trying to like ruin my day. Yeah. Well, the part that's trying to, on a slightly more positive spin is that I know, you know,

5:30we, and our, on our team, we work really hard to, to do, you know, our best and to be on schedule and be all of these things to be excellent as, as much as we can. And we push are the good people we know to also be excellent. And a lot of times they do, they'll go above and beyond. They'll spend, you know, a late, uh, after working hours trying to solve it or over the weekend, they'll do phone call or like, whatever it is, they're like, go this extra mile. And then whenever we have a whole suite of people from different businesses, all doing

6:01this for the sake of a project and a client and for it to turn out well, then you have one other person, whoever that more person might be is just like, they're like, oh, I'm not, I'm not really going to do that. And it's, it's such a bummer because it's like, do you realize you have how many cumulative people, power, people hours have been spent and, and, you know, hours after, after work schedules and, and them reaching out to their subs, them reaching out to their network to try and all make this happen. Like if you added all that up, that's a massive amount of, of time and energy. And I just, and I find it disrespectful, uh, if anything, when others don't, I don't expect

6:37them to everyone to do that, like to go the beyond what's normal, but you got to at least do what's normal, like do what you're saying you're going to do. If you've given yourself a week to do this thing, then do it within a week, you know? And, uh, so I find it disrespectful and it's, um, I don't know. I think anyone in our industry knows exactly what I'm talking about. It drives all of us who are trying hard, like it drives us nuts, drives us nuts. Um, and, and I'm not talking about that when people have, people get sick, people have

7:07life events, unplanned things occur. That's, that's fine. I get that. But consistent, you know, failure for no other reason than either, or no other reason other than incompetence or they just don't care. That's not okay. Um, not when I guess, like I said before, you have, you count them up, probably dozens of people trying to make this work.

Driving up to Santa Barbara

7:25Um, so, all right. What, what do you have to talk about? Uh, yeah. So we, uh, actually went somewhere for once since we never really do anything or go anywhere. No, that's not true. The last number of weekends we've been going. We go to the mall. We go to grocery shopping. How exciting. No, we actually like went somewhere for a couple of days, which was nice. Although it took us three hours to get from LA to Santa Barbara, which, uh, without traffic if you go to five in the morning, it's one hour. So go figure, you know?

7:56Um, but it was nice. It was nice. It was a long time, but the drive up didn't feel long. It felt like it was fine. No, it was fine, but it's insane to think that, you know, without traffic, it takes an hour for whatever reason. It took us three, you know? Like, I mean, you could go like halfway through state or maybe not. Well, not really, you know, that's true. Like I drove to the, drove, I drove, I, I drove to the, uh, to the central coast, you know, uh, a number of weeks ago and I left early.

8:29So it took me under three, like well under three hours to get there. Which is crazy. Like, I mean, were you driving like 300 miles an hour? Not at all. Um, no, no. So it was nice actually to drive to Santa Barbara, depending on which route you take. Uh, but if you drive, you know, along the coast, it's, it's pretty nice. It's a nice drive. It's pretty nice. So, yeah. So how was it, David? Did you, uh, enjoy your time away from, uh, your daily routine? It's good. I find myself these days wanting and let's say needing more breaks like that.

9:03And so, yeah, I, I, it was really good. I enjoyed it. The drive up took a while, but it was leisurely. We weren't in a rush. We just kind of, we're in the right headspace for that. It's funny because we were only gone for like two, two days.

9:18Uh, one day, two days. No. Yeah. Well, from leaving time would be like two, yeah, two days. Two days. Two days and a few hours. In fact, we're gone for like five. It's always the case when you travel. You know, when you, when you're trying to book a trip or plan it, you're, you're, you're think, ah, a day gone, two days gone, a week gone. It's so much time. How can we do it? And then you're gone and it feels like you've been out for a month and you come back and like nothing has changed. Like the world has barely crept forward. You know, you've experienced like a year of, of, of experiences.

The overwhelming family-style dinner

9:47No, uh, Santa Barbara was nice. We, we hadn't been there in a number of years. The last time we were there, I think we just made a pit stop and I don't think we spent the night and, um, again, long-time listeners might, might recall that at that time, you know, it was just the two of us and we were in SB for like maybe four hours or something. Yeah, it was quick. Um, but wait, but we had two meals. So did we spend the night? We did. Cause we had a Hawaiian, uh, themed meal. Hawaiian?

10:17Yep. Yep. Yep. We were going to eat inside, but it was crazy loud, uh, which we're not fans of. So we sat outside on, on, on the, uh, sidewalk and they had like an outdoor seating and it was at the, are you sure it's with, it's with the right girlfriend? It was not on state street. It was kind of off state street. You don't remember? And then you had poke or something. Hawaiian? Yeah. I just remember that meal that I don't ever want to think about. So we had, so we had, I think we, so we did spend the night cause we had that meal once as, as for dinner and we had another dinner somewhere.

10:49And the second dinner is the one that you're referring to. It was off of state street by a block and it was a prefix menu, you know, family style, family style, whatever many course thing. I don't remember the name of the restaurant, the food. We've had some really good food. So I'd give it like a seven and a half out of 10, 10 being like phenomenal. Um, but the quantity was the opposite of what you might think would be, you know,

11:20critical of. Oh yeah. You know, it's good. It's family style. It's like shower balls for two people. It's great. And they just kept bringing dishes. And they were like, it wasn't like, okay, one dish split into half. It was like two portions, like one for each of us. And we're like, this is like, they just kept bringing plates and bringing plates. And I was facing, I think you were facing out toward the street and I was facing inward, kind of like seeing them coming from the kitchen. And every time the kitchen door would open, my heart would stop and be like, please, please tell me it's not for me. Tell me it's not for us.

11:51We can't have any more food. Because when they do like a prefix menu for two people and they say, okay, there's, you know, seven or eight courses, but include, that includes like an appetizer dessert. So it gets spread out. Normally, especially for two people, the proportions are small because you have eight things to get through. But like, I'm not joking. Each serving was, like you said, it was enough to be a whole meal by itself for one person. If that person had a good appetite. I'm thinking, well, what kind of family do you have?

12:24This is family style. Because, you know, sometimes with these restaurants, at least to the person who's not so worldly like me, it's not quite clear what's a main course and not because everything sounds so fancy. There's a lot of ingredients, a lot of words going on. So when they bring out a dish, like, okay, this is the appetizer. This is a big appetizer. Okay, fine. Bring out the next dish. I remember thinking, okay, this must be like the main course. So we got to eat a fair amount of this because probably the next ones are going to be small. But every single one was just like this heavy, like massive amount of food.

12:55Oh, I know. And I was kind of getting upset before reaching the end of the meal because I'm like, you know, I always like to have rooms for desserts, like save room for dessert. I'm like, there is no room to be saved here. Like, what am I going to do? Oh, so we were staying at a hotel. So we couldn't even, we didn't have a fridge. We couldn't even like take leftovers back with us. Yeah. Yeah, I felt bad about that. You know, we had like no way to stay. I was just like, oh, this was such a bad idea. And we could, I couldn't wait to leave and go lay down. That, I had never felt so uncomfortable after a meal.

13:28And I can eat quite a bit. I mean, you know. Yeah. And actually, when I was a teenager, I could eat like a lot more than that. So much food. So much food. Yeah, we both felt sick. I felt so gross afterwards. There was a couple who sat next to us and they were also doing the family stand. They stopped like a third way through. I wanted to be like, don't do it. Don't do it. They stopped after, I think, the third course came out and they asked for the rest to go. And I was like, that was really smart of you because.

14:00Well, they had a fridge to take it to go. Sure, sure. But you know how, the way I would describe it is when you're visiting a place, it's on a vacation. You know, it's like Machu Picchu or the red orange gates in Japan or the Great Wall of China or whatever it is. You're going to hike up the thing and there's a, getting to the top, there's a pinnacle. And you don't really know how long or how difficult it's going to be because you've never done it before.

14:32And when you get like a third of the way, you're like tired and you get more and more exhausted and you make it to the top. And then when you're walking down, you see people walking up and they, and you can tell they think they're close. And you're thinking to yourself, you have no fucking idea what you're about to get into. It was the same feeling. It's like, you guys have no idea what you just signed up for. Or this is, I don't even know how they had that much food in that restaurant. Like they must've, did they like, how big was their refrigerator? But it's not like, it's not like we were the last people getting in.

15:03So I was like, are you sure you're going to have enough food to feed everyone tonight? That was crazy. I mean, it was, it was a really good deal, but. So we made sure this time not to go back there. Yeah. I don't remember which one it was.

15:20Anyway, but that was that trip.

Stucco details and lush landscaping

15:22Um, so I, we hadn't been to Santa Barbara in a number of years, Santa Barbara, for anyone who doesn't know, it's, it's, I guess you could say it's a, between an hour or three hours north of, of, of Los Angeles. And it's a very quaint, cute town, stylistically in terms of the architecture has a lot of Spanish style, uh, architecture. It's really its own thing. Yeah. I don't think there's a place. Big white stucco, ultra thick walls. windows are like recessed in, into the, into the facade, clay tile roofs, arches, um, no

16:02flashing, uh, anywhere. So, so we've got a weekend. The first thing we look at, it's flashing. How the heck did they not have any flashing in this building? Well, the thing is, we were recently having this discussion with a number of people that we've talked about this and anyone listening who's an architect has an opinion. Let me know. We've talked about this with architects, building scientists, contractors. And, you know, if, if you look at most, most buildings, uh, when it's a stucco, uh, clad building, uh, there's metal flashing at the top, right?

16:34That covers the, the parapet or the lip or whatever it is. So then water doesn't sit on top of the stucco and then it goes down the face of the, of the stucco that kicks out. So it's, there's a drip edge. Any architect builder knows what I'm talking about, but like that is a very generic detail. And if it's done well, it looks fine. But a lot of times it's done cheaply at a really thin gauge metal. So it gets all warpy and looks like shit. But the idea though, is that that detail in metal is a much more resilient way of building compared to not having it.

17:05Yet we go to Santa Barbara, there's no flashing anywhere. It's just a plaster or stuck, you know, that sub cementous group of, of, of material. And so I'm like, well, do you have an entire town that does it? So if, you know, one of our listeners is an expert in this type of architecture, please reach out because I will be very, very curious to know why we don't employ those details more often to not have to see those little disgusting flashing bands everywhere.

17:39Yeah. I'm sure it's money. But yeah, it was pretty cool. The other thing that I think is very, I mean, I would say unique to Santa Barbara is the landscaping of the, of the streets and the properties. Like you walk around town, you know, downtown or, or in adjacent residential neighborhoods. And it's like, everything is so lush. The landscaping is so beautiful. It's so put together, you know, colorful, like just, I don't know. To me, the landscape is as important as the buildings are there.

18:13And it just, it just makes the experience of walking around like so much different. Huge difference. You know, like you walk in a street where there is a two trees fighting for each other. You know, it's like, oh God. And, and you walk in, I mean, we saw trees in some of the streets that the, the, the diameter of the trunk was like humongous. Four feet or something. I was like, how old is that tree? Yeah. And this was a, the one that I'm thinking of was between the, the hotel and State Street. So we're talking about, you know, a two lane, narrow two lane, uh, residential single

18:48story street with normal sidewalks, not like some big plaza space, massive trees. Yeah. It makes a huge, huge difference. But even the plants and, you know, people's front yard, it's not just like, oh, big green lawn and three bushes, you know, like it's like, you know, I don't know. Someone has put some thoughts and some love about, you know, the, the, the plants there is just beautiful. Some of the planting that we walked by was almost, uh, tropical. And I don't know if that was like, why, who made that decision to have it be tropical-esque?

19:20Well, it might just be more, uh, heat resistant, you know, than like a lot of other plants. But yeah, very pretty. It's also interesting because, you know, I think we, meaning architects, uh, focus on buildings a lot. But if you're walking down a street and there's no trees, if you just imagine that it was filled with trees, like every 15 feet, there was a nice big tree and some smaller ones or whatever that completely change the street. And it's not really, it's architectural and that there's form and shade and light field

19:54filtering and stuff, but it's not architecture. And it's kind of like, it's not, it's not complicated. Just plant more fucking trees. But you know, even like, even again, even just the, the, you know, the small plants, let's say that people plant into their front yard. And it's funny because you could, you could tell that people there care about, care about the plants they put in their front yard. Yeah. You know, I feel like, let's say to be generic and upset people like SoCal, for example, is

20:25like, okay, here's a big green lawn. Everybody just trimmed their hedges and I kind of do like bare minimum. It's very rudimentary landscaping, nothing exciting, nothing personal. Don't want to spend any thoughts or any time in it, you know, or, or thinking about it. And it, oh, that's fine. I mean, it's, you know, curb appeal, it's green, it looks clean, like fine, but it's nothing. It's nothing personal is that, that also what contributes to make a lot of suburban neighborhood just feel very generic is that no one is standing out. None of the homes or landscape has personality of sorts.

20:56Right. And Santa Barbara is the complete opposite where every tiny home, like you would see how people curated their stuff. Like you could kind of guess like who lives in that house or space by their, how the front yard looks and how their house looks. And it also makes me think they probably spend time outside, you know, and, and enjoy it, which it was interesting because it seems like the indoor outdoor lifestyle was a lot more present up there than it is down here, which is weird.

21:26What's going to do it toward the front? Uh, in general, like, you know, stores, restaurants, even the hotel we stayed at, like, for example, there was no like big dining room for everybody to have breakfast. I mean, they had a room that had one table, but like people had breakfast in the courtyard that was open air and there was umbrellas. And I'm like, it's interesting because, yeah, I mean, the weather is perfect. Like, why would you want to be inside? Right. So it felt to me that the indoor outdoorness was a lot more embraced there than it is down

21:57here. Yeah. And I'm like, but why? It's not like we have more bugs here or like it gets cooler, you know? That's it. Yeah. I think that's true. Um, I mean, first of all, yeah, the weather in Santa Barbara is, is amazing. I mean, Santa Barbara is one of those places where it's kind of magical. So like anyone visiting California that you should visit Santa Barbara if you have, you know, LA, San Francisco shore, but like Santa Barbara is a beautiful, beautiful little town and a particular side of California that's not LA or San Francisco at all.

22:29So, but the weather in LA is also amazing. So I don't, I don't, I don't know. Um, maybe it's because it's more, um, it's just this big car centric place. Right. So, but if you have your, I mean, LA or even like Orange County, and I feel like if you have a, if you have a backyard, like you have to use it. Well, that's what I was asking though. It should not be allowed for people to buy a house and not use their backyard. But we don't, but, but I think there's a, there's a lot of, um, people who use their

23:00backyards in Orange County, like Southern, Southern, Southern California. So I don't think that that's true, but I do think it's true that the commercial areas in Orange County and LA are less. And I think it's maybe more to do with like the pedestrian oriented type of planning versus car centric. So like, for example, in Orange County, there's no pedestrian. I mean, there's a downtown, uh, city of Orange. Fine. But a lot of the areas, the commercial zones, you drive to them and it's an outdoor mall

23:32or it's the beach. It's this, or I guess there's the walking strips too, but. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I thought that was, I thought that was kind of interesting. But the whole area, the whole city too, also feels like much more remote from everything, which is weird because Santa Barbara is a city. It's not small. I mean, it's smaller than, you know, San Francisco. But it's so close to the coast and the mountains that it's right between those two. But it does feel like a, uh, like, yeah, kind of like a, an enclave. Yeah. Uh, right. It does feel like a vacation town because it feels very secluded from the rest of the

24:05world. And it was very interesting to walk along the water and do see like the mountains on one side and then open blue sky and ocean on the other side. It was kind of like. When did we walk on the water? Oh, for dinner. Okay. Yeah. It kind of reminded me of, you know, of like experiences you get from like, like when you're in Hawaii where you get the same thing, kind of like the island feeling, right? And I was like, oh, this is, I mean, you kind of get everything, right? You get the mountains, you get the ocean and the, the, the relationship of the city with

24:37the oceans are so very interesting because it's fair and it's a fairly flat, right? So you do get that kind of like, uh, you know, 180 view of the ocean kind of unobstructed, which is very nice, right? Yeah. Where let's say in LA, it's more like a straight line, maybe like less curved and you have a bunch of buildings and whatever crap in the middle. But it's kind of, it's kind of nice to, and refreshing to just like see openness.

Walking pedestrian-friendly State Street

25:02The other thing too is state street, uh, which is the main commercial street, um, in, in Santa Barbara. It's closed down to cars. Well, cars can cross it like every other intersection, every intersection, but they doesn't, the cars can go a long ways on it. Well, a portion of it is close. I think the portion closer to the ocean. Sure, sure. But I mean a massive chunk, it's not like two blocks. It's like, I'm going to butcher probably like 12 blocks, 10, I don't know, whatever length is. And that's, it's been that way for, for a while. And that is perpendicular to the ocean. But I think the last time we went, it wasn't.

25:34No, I think it was. It was. It was. Because it's been closed down for a lot of years. Um, but that state street is perpendicular to the ocean. And like you said, the topography on the larger scope is pretty flat. So there's this kind of, there's this kind of feeling like the water could almost go all the way up to state street and it's, it doesn't do that. I mean, maybe eventually with global warming, but like that does create a sense of, of tying together between that South end of state street and then the ocean.

26:07It's not West for people listening because the, the, that coast turns, but it doesn't matter. Um, it creates this kind of time, this feeling of tying between the two, this kind of merging almost, and it impacts the place. I also feel like with your observation about the, the ocean on one side, the mountains on the other, and kind of that portion of Sam or Santa Barbara being between those two, like how much does that impact the feeling of the place as a enjoyable destination and an experience?

26:40So what I'm thinking is versus in other areas, more inland, let's say Orange County, Irvine, whatever, you can create a mall that has all the amenities, all the stuff, but it's almost like you are driving to this man-made fake thing. So it doesn't feel as vacation-y or as relaxing because it's very much like you're aware you're going to drive to a massive, massive parking lot, walk from your car to the edge of this mall,

27:13be in the mall, and you're going to get out. It's like you're, you're, you're kind of trapped on, on this island, but not a good island versus Santa Barbara. It's like you naturally feel like, yeah, I should be here. This is, this is almost like nature is asking us to settle here and we have beautiful greenery, perfect weather. So I wonder how much of that experience can't, you know, it cannot be manufactured. Probably a big portion. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's something magical about just nature. Like you can't really replicate that feeling.

27:43They did a good job. I don't know how conscious it was again, but the scale of the buildings is not overly tall. State tree has a lot of tree trees. It has been struggling the last, I don't know how many years with kind of shops closing and stuff, but I'm sure it'll bounce back hopefully.

28:01But yeah. Now, would you ever picture yourself living there? The problem is, uh, business being made aside from business, just like, just... I forget business. Let's say you had a ton of, you know, potential clients there and like you could do well with your business. Would you, would you see yourself live there? I don't know. I'll probably have to go back a third time and then see how I feel. Cause sometimes it's like the first time or second time you go, you, there's a little bit of falling in love with it just because you haven't been there enough times, but we

28:34put that aside then. Yeah. I mean, it's like, what else could you want? It's an interesting thing too, because being surrounded by more traditional or quasi-traditional Spanish style, this, whatever things is you'd think would be, uh, not appetizing, but it's more maybe about their urban experience that I think is, is of quality there and the consistency of the architecture and they've spent money on the architecture too.

29:06Like they care about it. Um, so I think it's, it's for the most part, great. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm not like, I wouldn't design Spanish homes or whatever, but wouldn't mind being surrounded by them. Cause it's better than I go to crappy buildings being surrounded by in LA. Well, like we talked about before, maybe it's not really about the style as much as it is about just quality period. Right. Yeah. Um, and then all those buildings together do create a, uh, a larger environment and they,

29:38they do, Santa Barbara's like done it so well. Yeah. So well. Um.

29:47Now I wonder if it's too, if it's too small, if it feels too small to me though. Like I think, you know, the, the, the, the nature, the, um, the architecture, the, the climate of that is great, but I'm like, I don't know if it would, I, you know, these days I'm being told cause I'm like, I wouldn't mind being in a place that feels small just so I feel comfortable, but also part of me is like, but I do like the idea of a busy place and oftentimes small places don't feel busy enough for me. So it's a million dollar question.

30:20Well, that, yeah, that would be my only concern. But if you lived in a place like Santa Barbara, then you just have to adopt the mindset that it's not a big, big city and you just, you just, you know, you just chill out. You just, that's all you do. You just chill out. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. And I mean, I keep it simple. I could see at some point in your life when you're kind of like chilling out is, is the goal, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So yeah, it was good. Um, what did we do the first? Get there, check in. Hotel was super cute.

30:50That courtyard where he had breakfast a few days in a row was super cute. Went and had seafood at, what is it? Brothers Barnaby or something? Something? Brooks Brothers? Some- Profi Bros or something like that? Yeah. Yeah. Something like that along the water. It was okay. It was fine. Yeah, it was fine. I mean, it was more about the experience of, you know, eating by the harbor, being surrounded with a bunch of people on a Friday. Yeah. You know, having a baby with you at the restaurant. For what it is, it's exactly what you'd want it to be.

31:23So, you know. Yeah. No, I mean, I wasn't expecting incredible food, you know, but it was good. The service was nice. Like, it was fine. And then, yeah, we basically walked a bunch. I mean, for two days, we just kind of like parked the car and then just walked everywhere. Well, we made that mistake of walking too much the first day. And it made me realize, yeah, we don't do any more walking. Yeah. Well, in New York, we put in on an average like 10,000 steps a day. And that's not doing anything. That's just walking to work and maybe doing a short stop somewhere and back on a normal day.

31:58That's like probably like 9,000 something for me, at least I remember. And so now it's just dropped down to like, you just drive everywhere. But yeah, we clocked in like 20,000 steps. Yeah. I think we did about, yeah, like 16,000 or 18,000 or something. My number is always higher than yours. I don't understand that. It's not like you have shorter legs than me. So I don't know. It's not like you're always ahead waiting for me either. Like, yeah, I don't understand.

32:29I don't know either. Do you just go to the bathroom and just like do loops in there? Maybe it's the way I walk. I don't know. But so we did that. And then the next day, we're like, oh, God, overdid it.

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Museums, pizza, and pricey denim

34:12I also made the mistake on, what is it, Saturday. What did we do? We had that lovely, simple breakfast at the hotel. Well, then what did we do afterwards? We went to the Innovation and Exploration Museum. Oh, yeah. Yeah. For our kid, who wasn't that impressed with anything. He didn't care. He was just interested in the most random stuff there. There was like a flip-flop, you know, so to tap on pipes. More interested in everyday objects and street life than he is like anything made for entertainment,

34:43which is probably a good thing. I had a great time, though. I thought it was cool. I was like, it's really more of a museum for adults who want to play with stuff than kids. So that was cool. That, well, I'm not going to talk about the building. So then we do that, and then we go to get pizza at, what was the pizza spot? Lucky Penny. That was good pizza. That was... I could go for some pizza right now. Yeah, that was really good pizza. Just a teeny tiny outdoor spot that had a few tables, but probably one of the best pizza

35:13I've ever had. Really? Yeah. I've had some good pizza. I've had some good... Yeah, and they're one of them. Yeah. Yeah, they're one of them. So kind of an assuming, but like really, really good. We got like a good, like basic, like a margarita pizza, and then we got kind of like a more fancy one. Like a pesto? They had pesto, ricotta, pine nuts, lemon or something. And it was really good. It was really good. And I got a hazy IPA. And yeah, it was really delicious. I feel like at some point, pizza is not any better than other pizza.

35:45It's just different. So yeah, I'd say top. To me, it's like, okay, the seasoning, the thickness of the crust, how perfectly it's cooked, you know? It couldn't have any better for... And then is there enough cheese on it or not? And then is the tomato sauce too sweet or, you know? But that was great. I mean, they have that pizza place, definitely recommend it. It's also part of, it's not a large development, but a little development. There's like, you know, a handful of restaurants and maybe a coffee shop and a bar and whatever

36:15else kind of in that area with outdoor seating, umbrellas. You know, they have an old ice cream truck, food truck thing that's not used as sitting in the outdoor space as a prop, you know? It was just, it was kind of perfect for what you could want of a day like that. Perfect weather, perfect everything. It wasn't rowdy. The people hanging out, having a good time.

36:38So only thing is that their pizzas are, I asked the woman there, I said, is how big are these pizzas? Like, is it a personal pizza, which, you know, basically that, or is it like one pizza for two? And she's like, well, one would be almost enough for two people. So I would get two, which means to say that one is not enough for two people, but two is too much for two people. So as usual, we ordered too much. We ate too much and that. But we finished it this time.

37:09We didn't waste any. We finished it. That plus a beer. And then at that point, baby's going to take a nap. We have a choice. We can go back to the hotel. Everybody takes a nap at the same time. Or we walk around Funk Zone, Funk Village, whatever, funky streets, and do that and then walk State Street or whatever while the kid is napping. We made a mistake and chose the latter because halfway through this walk, I was fading really

37:42hard. Food coma, beer coma, just general tiredness. I put it off pretty well. I didn't notice. Oh, God. I was struggling. I was struggling. Went to a surf shop. That was cool. Enjoyed that. Got some stuff. Went to another kind of unique denim store. Wanted to get some pants. $400 for pants. And I said to myself... It's from Japan, so that's what happens. Yeah. I like nice stuff, but $400 for pants. I'm like, oh, what's the price? I don't see it. And I'm looking at the tag.

38:12I'm like, yeah, I see three numbers here. That's not going to be good. Well, I mean, you know, whatever. But like well over $400 for a pair of like chinos. I'm like, yeah, I get they come from Japan. And there's some probably old woman in a village who like does this her entire life. But this, I don't need this for chinos. Like dress slacks that are really formal or whatever. I don't know. But so, but yeah, there seemed to be a lot of good food in that era. Then we walked State Street. So it was actually State Street. That walk is when I started to really fade because it was...

38:42It was hot too. Early afternoon. Hot. Toasty, humid. Then we found a little, again, cute outdoor spot between buildings where they put tables and umbrellas and a bunch of people were sitting and eating. Off State Street? Yeah. Yeah. That's a larger development. It's like a, the all white kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah.

39:02And then... We sat there like vegetables roasting in the sun. Well, we were under an umbrella, but just like two, two dead vegetables tired just sitting there. Some dried tomatoes. Yeah. No conversation. No, just sitting. I think my teeth were hurting a lot. And I was, I was just, I began to, he said, it was kind of hot and humid. Like it wasn't like hot dry, I feel. I don't remember. And I was just not, I was not having it so much. And then the kid wakes up, so we need milk, you know, for like the after nap bottle.

39:36So you go to a coffee shop thinking, okay, I'm just going to ask for like a little cup of milk. Four ounces of milk is what I needed. Half a cup of whole milk. So I go back to the coffee shop that we, we ordered from way back in line, get to the register. I'm like, can I just get half a cup of whole milk? Now I understand it could be free because I'm a returning patron. Did you say it? Did you say it's for my son? I could, no. I could also understand.

40:06Well, that's mistake number one. If it's for you, well, you're a grown ass man. Of course they're going to. Why would a grown person be asking for half a cup of milk? I don't know. There are some weirdos out there. I could also just say where they would charge because it's like, well, I'm giving you something. Uh, I do put the word just half a cup of milk. Just, it's a small, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, it's a, it's a little hint of like, you know, it's just half a cup of milk because it is just half a cup of milk. It's not a gallon of milk. It's not a liter of milk and I don't want the milk frothed.

40:37I don't want it caramelized. I don't want it to do whatever. I just half a cup of milk. And the guy's like, yeah, of course. Cool. You've seen my face before. He's like, that'd be five 50. I'm like, of course it'll be five 50. Of course it'd be five 50. An option to tip. No, I'm not tipping you on a half a cup of milk. I came here before. I spent like $18 on two drinks half an hour earlier. I'm not going to tip you in half a cup of milk. So now I'm waiting and fortunately they did push it through because there was a big line. Appreciate that. Um, I guess that's worth $5.

41:09I'm waiting at the end where they, they give you the drinks. And I literally see her take the barista. She takes a plastic cup, brings it over, takes the carton of Altadena, non-organic whole milk, pours it in and she goes, here we go. I'm like, yes, well worth five 50. This transaction.

Buying milk at a coffee shop

41:29Like, thank you. And they could suck it down in like 10 seconds. Like, fuck.

41:36But you should. Okay. Okay. Next time you should actually go with your kid's bottle, but it's for my son. Because if it's for a kid, I feel like they're most likely, I'm going to charge you or maybe charge you a more fair price. I know. But I just. Than like the price of a drink. There's a fine line of demonstrating the reality of the situation and, and, and hinting at something versus, I don't want to guilt trip people into stuff. I don't, I don't like doing that. And five bucks is not a whole lot, but it is, it was annoying. It was still annoying though.

42:07Well, look, even if they give you the milk for free and you feel bad about it, give them a couple of bucks as a thank you. Fine. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, no, 550, it's the price of a whole gallon of milk. It was silly. I mean, if it was like, again, some kind of local farm source thing from Santa Barbara, from a cow named Rebecca, then I, okay, fine. But it was. A cow named Rebecca. You know, they like name their cows sometimes and like, we just smoke from whatever. Then I get it. But this was like super cheap, buy it from Ralph's or like Savons or fucking food for less for probably $3.

42:45I don't know what it costs, but whatever amount of dollars. Savons? Like, Jesus. You mean Safeway or Vons? No, I think, isn't Savons a thing? Is that a thing? I've never heard of it. I think Savons used to be a thing. Savons? Vons? Maybe not. I don't know. I think you're mashing up Safeway and Vons. Probably. But yeah, well, you know, that's, that's the thing. That's the deal. That's the deal. But yeah, very pleasant neighborhood. So I didn't know, you know, so before we went, I looked up like, okay, what to do, what to see in Santa Barbara.

43:17And Funk Zone came up and I'm like, what the heck is Funk Zone? And it's basically a couple blocks off of Main Street. And it's, let's say, more of an industrial area that was kind of like maybe re-energized apparently during COVID. So it has kind of like the feeling of like, you know, Brooklyn, like, like rough industrial buildings that turn into cool spots, like cool clothing stores or restaurants or cafes or pizzeria or whatever.

43:47Or a place that sells $450 pants. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, all of those places usually are very successful because it mixes the charm of the rough with the cool, right? So, of course, who's not going to be drawn by that?

Exploring the Funk Zone and Montecito

44:02So it was, you know, it was a nice discovery. Yeah, there's a sense of authenticity. A sense of mixing. And then we had saw online that, so Montecito is a very well-known area near Santa Barbara where a lot of celebrities have homes, right? Ultra wealthy. Ultra, ultra wealthy, like big, big properties and whatnot. And we saw online you could do like an architecture, you know, driving architecture tour. And we're like, oh, it'd be cool to see some, you know, big houses, even if we can get in just, you know, from the street, right?

44:35So we hop on there and I have to say, we saw nothing. We saw nothing but fences and beautiful plants. Where did you get this tour information from? To a GPT. Well, you would think that, you know, come on. I wouldn't think. So that was a complete let down. I mean, the roads were nice. But it was still worthwhile. It was still worthwhile to drive it and just kind of feel what that area is like. Yeah, no. And we got a beautiful view of the ocean in some spots, too. Like, you know, the viewpoints were absolutely incredible.

45:09So it's kind of cool. We saw maybe one modern-ish house that looked terrible. It's pretty bad. It's like, I don't know. I don't even know how to describe it. No, it's just bad. I'm like, well, like, come on. Like, if you're going to bother building something here, hire me. Like, whoever you hired, like, no, no good. No good. So we did that. And then there was a little kind of like what they call country mart in Montecito we, like, popped into, which was cute. It was just a little cluster of a few shops and ice cream store and whatever.

45:42Maybe, like, ten shops or something really small. Yeah, we were, like, a little sitting area. It was very small. It felt like a little village thing. So we spent some time there. Then we were in, what was the other area that you looked up? We got out and we walked, like, a little bit. Oh, Summerland? We were going to go to Summerland, but we didn't go. There wasn't Summerland? Yeah, but we didn't go there. Okay. I don't know. I think we just did a couple of areas in Montecito, which there was another street that had a few, like, stores and stuff. Super small. So we kind of walked there and whatever.

46:14I have to say, I'm a huge fan of the people there. But this is a reoccurring thing. I mean, here's the thing, like. It's just a reoccurring thing. If you want to go to Marina, you don't like anyone. It's the small town. Small towns give us both kind of the heebie-jeebies. There's a certain vibe about small towns. It's sad, but it's just the snubbiness. And it's, like, white people. And I'm white, right? Yeah, but you're European. It's a little bit different. But it's, like, I don't know. I just feel like everybody's better than you, you know, type of thing when they walk around.

46:45And I'm like, fuck off. I'm like, fuck off. What are you wearing? What are you doing? Who are you? Nobody knows. Like, come down here. Come a few steps down. But a lot of small town places, especially mostly the wealthy ones, they have, there's a snubiness. And I've spoken to a lot of people about this, to visit areas like that, or pockets of Malibu, or probably, I'm blanking on other spots. But it's, yeah, there's a lot of it.

47:16That's just the way it is. And I've, I don't know. I'm just like, yeah, that's just what I expect now. So, I'm less annoyed by it, if you can believe that. Oh, wow. Well, I expect it.

47:30I've seen that a lot. I mean, like, Newport Beach, there's a good one. Oh, God. They give me eczema. Just, oh, you can run people like that. I don't know. And not everyone's like that. But there are plenty of people who give off that vibe. And when you speak with them, they are exactly like that. Very closed-minded, tend to be quite conservative sometimes, a lot of times, frankly. And they just kind of poo-poo on everyone else that's not in their community and not of their, quote, status. And it's just a gross disposition to have.

48:04And like you said, you said, fuck off. It's like, yeah, but you're not anybody. I know. I mean, are you the mayor of this town? All of us are nobodies also, by the way. Like, just relax about it. Like, you don't have to be that way. Or you enter into stores and they kind of get you. You're not from here. And I'm looking at them like, I know I'm not from here. You don't need to give me the look. But I might buy something here, so you might want me to stay. You know? So, yeah, I was not a huge fan of the vibe there.

48:39So, Montecito was kind of a flop. We didn't really see buildings or anyone, you know. But Montecito is not known for being. No, it's not. But I'm like, I don't know if you're going to have all those celebrities having a big home. So, you think there would be something in the town? No, it would be the opposite. It's quietness. It's privateness. It's, you know. I should have pretended I was a celebrity who wore big sunglasses, giant hat. And, like, looked down. Maybe people would have been like, oh, yeah, she's from here. Okay.

49:09Yeah, I need to wear my white pants. And I swear I saw someone wearing boat shoes. Keep a cigar in your hand, you know. Polo shirt and white pants. Yeah. And, you know, it's the same thing, too. All the... When you see a family, parents and all the kids, they dress identical. It's like, Jesus Christ. It's so sad. It's so, like, it's just not interesting at all. They buy a bonk, you know. They buy all the shorts and polos and, like, all the sizes. It's not interesting. And I get this. And this is me just making stuff up. I get the feeling that those people have... Their brain is, like, extra small.

49:40You know what I mean? And, therefore, they have to be really loud because their brain is really small. And they just, they, you know, big fish, small pond, all those things apply. But if you've ever lived and traveled or been or worked in a myriad of places with really smart people, you're like, yeah, but why are you behaving that way? Why is anyone behaving that way? No one gets a pass for that. Now, where did we go for dinner that night? We went to a Thai place, I think, didn't we? No. What did we do? Oh, no, we went to that market. Public market?

50:11Oh, yeah. It's kind of like a Chelsea, let's say a Chelsea market, Santa Barbara version. Like the north end of State Street, kind of?

50:21Maybe. I do not know. North, whatever. Yeah. Away from the ocean. Yeah. So, we grabbed some stuff and ate outside again. It was cool. I feel like every town, every city now has a place like this. An indoor market? An indoor market with, I don't know, like 30 different vendors, a bunch of different types of food, and I mean, the idea is great, and, you know, like, and if you go with family or friends, you don't all have to eat the same thing, so everyone could grab whatever they want to eat and still eat together. Yeah. So, you know, the idea is great.

50:52I think it works well. The only thing with those places is that they really need to be paired with ample, shaded, comfortable outdoor seating, because eating inside of a hall is not for everybody, and it does get always really loud. Yeah, no, that's true. That's true. I mean, if you're into it, then you're into it, but other than that, you need to have spillout space. They don't have as much outdoor seating as they should, really. So, I always have a hard time selecting what to eat in those places, because I feel like

51:25I never really have a good idea of, like, what are all of my options, and then the menus, I feel like I have to, like, dissect them to re-understand what's under each item, so I feel a little overwhelmed in general. But, we got, uh, what did I get? You had a salad. I had a salad that was, yeah. Was it good? That was good. No, it was good. I had a salad with chicken, um, yeah, it was pretty good. What did I have? I had barbecue. And then we were like, oh, let's get some donuts to go. And we got one, we got one donut.

51:58We got one donut. One donut, because we were full, and the donuts were massive. And it was like a, um, uh, what you call it? Key lime. Key lime pie donut, so it was kind of, like, creamy and fluffy. So, I'm going to that stand, I'm like, okay, I would like one donut, you know, the key lime donut. Okay, fine. Do you want a box? I'm like, sure. She's like, well, actually, we only have, like, you know, the big, big box for, like, a dozen donuts. No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, no, it was. For a dozen donuts? It wasn't for a dozen? Oh, it was the size of, like, a cake box.

52:29I mean, I don't know how many donuts you fit, but, you know, like, the size of a normal box for a cake, right? Okay, yeah. And, uh, I'm like, oh, well, I'm like, well, it's kind of stupid to put, like, one donut floating around in that big box. So, I'm like, that's fine. So, I was just with the plate, and I'm like, I want to walk to the car with a floating donut like this. No. So, I came back with that big box. The donut did not last very long, because we ate it pretty quickly once we got back. It was pretty good, actually. Well, it's also, so not eating dessert at the same time, like, taking turns, because we're each taking care of a kid, really, like, deflates the experience of having the dessert.

53:04It's like, your turn. Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. Was that good? Yeah, it was great. Okay, your turn. Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. But the thing is, the night before we left, I was like, so, I just realized, you know, we booked one hotel room, which makes sense, because it's just the three of us. But I'm like, so, he goes to bed at 7.30. Does that mean we're going to have to go to bed at 7.30? And we're kind of like, well, I guess we could. So, we did go to bed pretty early. I mean, by the time he fell asleep, you know, we got ready for bed and whatever. It was probably like 8.30 or whatever. So, it was earlier than usual, but not that earlier than usual.

53:37It was pretty amazing, though. And, well, yeah, she got to sleep. It was pretty amazing. Yeah, yeah. But, no, the dessert was really good. It was pretty good. Super, super good. I forget the name of the place. We should do better at keeping track of the names. With the outdoor seating, like, you know, there's not a lot of tables outside, and it's busy. And partly because of the World Cup has been going on. The point is that there's a lot of people trying to find tables. And we're outside, and there's one woman, large woman, by herself and a dog, but not a giant dog, like a normal-sized dog.

54:16And she's eating ice cream by herself. She's taking up, like, five seats. I don't mean her physically, but she's decided to occupy the space of five seats. And it's like, could you maybe not do that? And so, actually, a family or a couple came out. They asked her, like, could you rearrange your presence so that you don't use up, like, two tables worth of space for one person? Like, you're big, but you're not that big. Like, just slide over. She had her stuff sprawled out.

54:46It's like, come on. Like, what are we doing? I would go back to the food market. That was good. Yeah, no, it was good. People were, you know, working there were nice, too.

Carpinteria breakfast and future trips

54:56And then, the next day, we had another enjoyable breakfast in that courtyard. I really, really liked that. The sunlight coming through. We ended up doing a pit stop in Carpinteria. I don't know if I've ever really been there before, but it's kind of... But not in that area. Like, we had no idea there was a little cute downtown or whatever. We've cut through it, yeah. We've made, like, you know, like, I don't know, gas stations. We didn't stop or, you know, stuff like that, but we never really explored. Carpinteria is known in California as, like, a...

55:27I wouldn't say a bad place, but there's no reason to be there. There's no destination. There's nothing really desirable.

55:35But the... We were just there for a short period and only saw, like, kind of one street. That one street is beautiful, though. Small shops, trees, good coffee. Hustling and bustling on Sunday morning. I mean, it was, like, the ocean's right there, too. The ocean's right there. They have a new kind of... I don't know what you call it. Not like a courtyard. Sort of like a courtyard that had, like, four to six different eateries facing inward toward it. Yeah, again, that's a cool concept, you know. Sofas, pergolas. Yeah. It was...

56:06The food was really good. Yeah, it got really busy, yeah. It was pretty... It was a nice little discovery there. Yeah. It was pretty nice. Yeah, the food was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, the coffee place was good, too. Dart Coffee, I think was the name of it. Yeah, Dart something. Oh, I don't... Drip Dart, Dart Drips, something. Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty good. Yeah, I would... We don't really have a reason to stop there because it's, you know, it's so close to L.A., but if for some reason we needed to stop there, I would gladly stop there again. So, yeah, Santa Barbara was nice.

56:36I mean, I'm looking forward to going again to test out to see if I would want to be there longer. But, I mean, again, weather, great, food, great, architecture, consistent and high quality. The beach was nice, too. The beach was good. The greenery was good. The city was clean. The beach wasn't crowded. I mean, it was hot. I actually did not remember that Santa Barbara could get that hot, but it was, like, pretty hot. I think it's hot. But they've always had a homeless problem. Yeah. Well, you know, every city does. I think it's every city that has...

57:08Beach. Beach and also money. Good weather. You know, and... Like Hawaii, they have a massive homeless population. Yeah. I mean, if you were to be... Like, if we were to be homeless, I would go in places like this. Like, why would you go and be, like, in freaking L.A. under, like, the freeway or whatever? Like, yeah. Just find out on the way to make your way to Santa Barbara. Well, that's the first thing. You're fighting your way to Santa Barbara. No, no. But I think it's...

57:39The good weather does make it much more... No. I'm sure it makes it easier rather than being in Chicago or something. Oh, God. That's brutal. That's nasty. Yeah, that's brutal.

57:49I think that's it. So where is our next weekend getaway, David? Where are you taking us? Las Vegas? I don't know, actually. I don't know. I've been thinking about that. Like, where can we... San Diego would be great, but we're going to go there in a couple months anyway, so... Okay, so you've got to find a new... I don't know if we would go there.

58:06I don't know. Carpentry again.

58:10I mean, it would be nice if you were planning... No, but I think it's really small. Carpentry is really small. No, but if you were planning a little getaway. Las Vegas. What the heck would we want to go to Las Vegas? Because it's like lights and stuff. Gambling. Oh, that's the shit we're into? Lights and gambling? Okay, cool. Could be interesting. I'm sure a 19-month-old kid will enjoy that.

58:34I don't know. I mean, there's Santa Barbara. There's Slow. Been to Slow. You know, it's obviously a lot.

58:43Vegas is close, but it's Vegas. If you have any suggestions for us to spend a couple days in somewhere, you know, not too far from LA, please reach out. You know how to find us, where to find us. I'll be curious, because I'm sure there is... What else is there in California?

59:03San Francisco, well, that's far. No, but I'm sure there is smaller towns and cities that are not necessarily on everyone's radar that are still pleasant to visit. We've been to Ojai. Is it Ojai? We've been to Ojai, but it was also a very quick pit stop. Yeah. Ojai gets really hot. It's very dry. It gets really hot. It's very dry. I kind of feel like if you go to Ojai, you have to ride horses or something. We could go to Irvine and visit the Irvine Spectrum Mall. We've been there already.

59:33No, but I think there is other spots. I think we just got to, you know, find the little gems here. Laguna Beach. Yeah, we've been. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, try again. See, if you lived in Europe, you could go, like, probably two-hour driving, three-hour driving to how many different places and countries? Well, that's the thing is that in Europe, like, any small town could be cute. Yeah. Here, even if it's a small city, they're each going to have the same, like, outdoor mall with the same five chains of stores.

1:00:03And there's not really, like, it's hard to find places that have some sort of authenticity and identity. So that's the type of places I'm, you know, I'm thinking it would be nice to visit, but I don't know where they are. Yeah, well, you know, our country is really old. We're 250 years old, Marina. That's a long time. Planting seeds, 250 years, a lot of heritage, important, really important tradition to hold on to, 250 years. That's like, what, three generations? You got to be steadfast with those principles from 250 years ago.

1:00:35So, mm-hmm. Yeah, it's pretty young. It's pretty young. I mean, when Americans talk about tradition and stuff, Europeans must just roll their fucking eyes and be like, shut up. Well, it was, you know, the 4th of July a few days ago and the 250th anniversary. And jokingly, I said to you, it's like, it's funny, you know, my parents' house is older than this country. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, it would be like a 10-year-old saying, like, this is how I do things. Okay, this is my tradition to an adult. An adult would be like, yeah, you're 10. Shut up.

1:01:06Yeah, meanwhile, you know, the Greeks have been making vases for, like, millions of years. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's all relative. It's all relative. All right, let's wrap this up. Thanks for listening. Talk soon. I don't know, support us, leave reviews. Check out other stuff on our website, Second Studio Pod. That's our Instagram. Text the hotline with topic suggestions. Also, we're going to answer some questions from the hotline that I missed the last few weeks. Oh, yeah. That is 213-222-6950. Thanks, everyone. Talk soon. Bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.