The Lotus Eaters Episode 8: Home and Homelessness [unlocked]

Introduction to books fifteen and sixteen

0:00Dear listeners, thank you for joining us on our voyage into Homer's Odyssey. You're listening to the Lotus Eaters, a 12-part series on Homer's Odyssey that was funded by our generous supporters over at Patreon.com. It's because of that support that we're able to release this series for everyone. If you'd like to join them in supporting us, please head over to Patreon.com slash VeryBadWizards. One of the benefits will be that you'd get access to all of the Lotus Eaters at once rather than having to wait every week for a new episode to drop, but you'd also get access to hundreds of hours of other bonus content, and Zeus would smile down upon you for your generosity in supporting us. So thank you for listening. Let's get to the episode.

0:52Let's get to the episode.

1:22Welcome to another episode of the Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. So we are today going to be discussing books 15 and 16 of the Odyssey. This is, I guess, kind of builds up to the reunion of Telemachus and Odysseus. They finally will meet and eventually Telemachus will recognize Odysseus. But there's so many beautiful scenes in these two books. Yeah. What did you think of these overall?

1:56I really liked them, man. You know, it's a buildup. And because I only have a vague notion of what's going to happen with the suitors, you know, like I know broad strokes what happens. I'm enjoying like this sort of tension building in these scenes. And like that emotional relief when the son and the father finally recognize each other. And like I felt emotions about what it must be like to have never known your father and to have never seen your son. And he's in disguise. He knows, but the son doesn't know yet. Like it was great. I loved it. Yeah. And there's a little bit of kind of awkwardness when Eumaeus kind of embraces him for the first time. And he gives the simile of like, it's his own father. And it's like, in some ways he has been more of a father to Telemachus than Odysseus has.

2:41Absolutely. And he calls him grandpa, which is really sweet. Very sweet. Yeah. I think there's a bunch of like beautiful scenes. I think the scene with Odysseus and Eumaeus when he listens to Eumaeus' story as they're kind of drinking wine really late at night and enjoying the grief that they get to express, as they put it, is so beautiful. I think the stuff at the beginning with Telemachus maneuvering his way to get home out of Sparta is kind of cool. Yeah. And then there's just a lot of weirdness. Like they pick up this son of a prophet on the way who's on the run. He's like, he's like got to get the hell out of Dodge, you know? And, uh.

3:22Totally. Like, does that guy make any more appearances? Like I have to know. Yeah, he does. Okay. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. But nothing big. Because you think with like stories that are this old and have been told for this long that you might just have like vestigial characters who like once played a role, but now they just sort of pop in and nobody knows why they're still part of the story. Yeah, maybe. But I think there's always, I would say, thematic relevance. And that guy in particular keeps talking about homelessness and how that's like, that's a terrible fate. And then that's exactly what Odysseus says when we cut to him in the next scene with Eumaeus.

3:58So I think there's definitely some parallels between, you know, him and Odysseus. Just he's at a much earlier stage than Odysseus was. Yeah, totally. Like the biggest thing I was going to say about theme wise is like the notion of what home is. Like what does home mean and what is it? And Eumaeus of all the people is like probably the most at home. Yeah. Even though he's a slave who was sold, but he was sold as a young boy. And so this is all he knows. So he's almost like a bedrock home, whereas everybody else is, yeah, feeling unattached. I don't know if you've ever felt that way. Like I luckily never moved. We didn't move a lot. I think we moved once. Like when I would go to college, there's always home for me. I always consider my parents' house in California home.

4:41But I know what it's like to be in that sort of in between where you're not quite sure what home is. And that's an uncomfortable feeling. Yeah, totally. And then the feeling of being homeless, I think, is both literal. And I think that is like a distressing thing. But it also signals something that you're lacking, some deep connection with your roots. And, you know, this is what Odysseus has been struggling with for so long now, at least since he got to Calypso's Island. And we're starting to see that he's very gradually starting to build connections back to his home.

5:19But he still can't help lying and disguising himself maybe more than he should. But this is really, I would say, like a meditation on exactly these themes, like that theme especially, what is home? Yeah. The other thing I was going to say is it really felt to me like this is picking up Temelicus's, you know, the first four books where I almost feel like these are his books too. Like it really is a develop. You see him develop morally, like in terms of his character. He just matures and he starts making decisions, you know?

5:54Yeah. And there's actually like a little moment where he even kind of stands up to his dad. Yeah, exactly. Totally. And yeah, you can see his head throughout, very hospitable. Like he welcomes that. Yeah, he's doing it right. Theoclimenus. Yeah. And he doesn't make Odysseus, who he doesn't know is his father, get out of the chair and like all of the things. Dude, you just made me think that Odysseus wasn't there. We've talked about how he didn't have like a father figure. He's been basically raised in a house of suitors. And how would he even know what to do?

6:24And now, like I'm realizing Emmaus is the one who showed him what to do. Emmaus's hospitality is the hospitality that Telemachus is showing. Yeah, that's right. And he was like that even when Athena came disguised at the very beginning of the book. So it's got to be Emmaus. He didn't learn that from this trip. He learned, I think, yeah, like how to do it maybe in the more kind of formally proper way. But I think like, yeah, it probably is Emmaus that gave him the heart to want to do those things in the first place. Exactly. Like leading by example. Because you get the sense that Emmaus is such a charitable host, even though he's in a position of low power.

7:01It's like that's his domain and he cares for people in his domain, like the little outskirts with the pigs. Yeah. And then you see that even though he is a slave, he was bought as a young child, like almost like as a kind of a mercy and then raised by Odysseus's mom, along with the sister, who we just learned about. I don't think we'll ever hear about again. And he said that the mother treated him almost as an equal, just a little less. She said, tiny bit less. I'm a slave, you know, like cut her some slack.

7:38Yeah, it's really cool. I think. I think you got some good suitors stuff too. You get a lot of like concerns about loyalty. There's like this big unknown for Odysseus and Telemachus. They want to know who's going to be loyal to them, which makes sense. Well, I would push back just on the Telemachus part of that. Like, I think Odysseus, that's a big like when he's coming up with his plan and it's like a kind of a heist film. He's like, OK, you put the weapons in the storeroom and you could see the rising action in a movie.

8:10Yeah, totally. It has a very kind of almost Ocean's Eleven quality, except he's kind of thinking of it on the flies. Like, tell them, oh, I put it away from the fire. No, tell them that you guys get drunk and then you'll hurt each other. But then he's like, but first, you know, we got to go test everybody. We got to test to see if the slave girls are being loyal to me and to Penelope or not. And then we have to go around and test all the slaves. And this is where Telemachus says, look, yes, we can test the slave girls, which actually is interesting. But let's get this moving. So I think he's in planning mode, but he's not yet in fighting mode.

8:40And I think the testing is part of that is that he's using testing maybe as a way to postpone things a little bit until he can get to or maybe it's out of just fear of disloyalty, fear of lack of recognition. So like it could be either. But Telemachus is like, I don't want to go around like the countryside trying to find every person in testing. Yeah, I got the sense that Telemachus was like, dude, like, I know you've been gone 20 years, but like, let me just remind you, this would be very like long and inconvenient if we were really going to go to each person.

9:15Yeah, I love you. I haven't seen you since I was an infant, but I'm not looking to do it. Maybe not 68 dudes. I'm not trying to, like, walk the Appalachian Trail to see if some herdsman still is loyal to you. So, yeah, any other thing you want to say about the themes here? I think that's it. I mean, there's just like, just to say again, the tender moment of reunion is like, to me, was the emotional center, even though I don't think it's the overall theme.

9:49Like, that's what, like, I went back just to read that part, like when they embrace, you know. And the little, the simile, and then they just start wailing, you know. Of course they do. Yeah, but it's like, yeah, we'll get, when we get to that, I want to read that simile because it's kind of beautiful.

Telemachus leaves Sparta

10:05All right, well, let's get into it. So, we open in Sparta and Telemachus with a little nudge from Athena, but he didn't need it, really. He wants to go home. So, he wakes up Nestor's son and he wants to leave, but Nestor's son's like, no, you can't leave. You've got to wait for Menelaus. So, then he asks Menelaus, he tells him that he wants to leave. Menelaus is like, we can go buy and pick up treasure from, like, all these towns. They'll give you the best gifts. And Telemachus, I think this is, like, he's really handling this with class, this whole interaction.

10:39And I really like what Menelaus says. He says, Telemachus, I will not keep you here if you are truly desperate for home. I disapprove of too much friendliness and of too much standoffishness. A balance is best. I love that. To force a visitor to stay is just as bad as pushing him to go. Like, that's golden mean shit. Totally. This is, like, a very Aristotelian character-based, like, vibe to this. I wanted to ask you, in what Athena tells him, she tells him, like, hey, but just be careful.

11:10The suitors are, like, hiding to, like, ambush you and kill you. I forget now. Did he know that already? I didn't think he knew it, but he might have suspected it. So, that's, like, a crucial, yeah. Like, that's the one piece of information that, like, gives him the upper hand, I think. And that's just reminding me that in the last books, when Odysseus wakes up on Ithaca and then is like, what, you sent him to Asparta, like, when the suitor was going to wait to kill him? And she's like, no, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. And maybe she was like, oh, shit, like, to-do list.

11:44Like, go Warren Dilemcus. Like, maybe that was really good that he freaked out like that. I'm sure he'll be fine.

11:54Stop it, Odysseus. I'm insulted that you would even, oh, fuck.

12:01Hopefully he hasn't left yet. You can see, like, Zendaya running in, like, a Looney Tunes, like, kind of way of the Looney Tunes. Yeah, yeah. Like, the Roadrunner. By the way, there's a Looney Tunes moment when they describe how the Phoenician woman dies by being, like, smacked against the side of the ship. I was like, oh, shit. She's just smacked against the- You know, I'm not saying she had it coming, but- Even Athena says you know how women are.

12:34Yeah, so, first, they give him gifts, which is, as I'm sure every reader who's made it this far can tell, like, a huge thing. And Menelaus gives a gift that, you know, it's a solid gift. It is a bowl of silver circled with gold. But the main thing is Hephaestus made it, like, Hephaestus made Achilles' shield, you know, in the Iliad. Like, if he makes it, it's the best. This bowl, you can drop it. You can, like, eat your cereal for, like, 20 years and it'll never break.

13:05Yeah, right. It's like, what's his name? Hattori Hanzo or the sword. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Hattori Hanzo. But then Helen gives him something that she crafted herself for his bride, you know, when he gets married. And she says, I made it myself. And she's, like, glowing when she says that. And, you know, she's been so affectionate slash a little bit, maybe milfy, cougary maybe, to Telemachus.

13:38For the first time ever, like I said, I've been reading this for, you know, 16 years. I was like, did Odysseus and Helen, maybe back in the day, you know. Yeah. Makes sense. They seem to be, like, the, you know. The smartest. The smart ones, the best looking ones, as described. Well, yeah, I shouldn't say the smart one, because I think Penelope is the smart one. But, yeah, they have a kind of deviousness that is, you know, maybe just one night they got drunk a little too much wine and, you know.

14:09Dude, but when the translation says, then Helen's lovely cheeks flushed as she moved in close. Yeah. I was like, yeah, it's horny. That's what I mean. But she thinks he looks like Odysseus. Yeah. It's probably just. I was going to say, it's probably just us. Or it's just us, yeah. So then he does do, like, a little itty-bitty lie to Menelaus. So Menelaus says, you know, just give my best to Nestor. And Telemachus says, yeah, oh, sure, definitely. We'll definitely tell him that. But he already knows, I'm sure, that he's not going to want to go to see Nestor.

14:40So I think, you know, that just shows, that's a little baby Odysseus, you know, trying to come out. Like, the tactful thing, but also not necessarily the truthful thing. Right. Yeah. What's with the birds, by the way? Okay, yeah. So an eagle comes by right now, and he's got this white goose clutched in its claws. That's a tame goose, which. Yeah, it was caught from their yard, so it wasn't like a wild goose, I guess. But remember this, because this will come back. This is the first thing that will come back in book 19. So just, that's all I'm going to say about it right now.

15:12But, yeah, remember it. And it's interesting. So then Nestor's son is like, what was that? That seems like an omen, you know. And Menelaus, it says, favorite of Ares, wondered how he ought to answer. But Helen cut in first and said, now listen, I will make a prophecy. The gods have put it in my heart, and I believe it will come true. Just as the eagle flew down from the mountain where he had his home with chicks and parents, seizing this tame goose, so will Odysseus, who has been gone so long and endured so much,

15:44come back and take revenge. And then she says, like, indeed, he's already there, like, planning this. And so, like, one thing that's so interesting to me about that is, it's another thing, like, with Arte and Alcinoos, like, the women kind of take charge. While Menelaus is like, huh, no, you know, like, well, what does that mean? Helen just comes in and just gives, like, the best possible interpretation. And also one that's, like, true. And how would she know that? It's just, like, women are powerful in the Odyssey.

16:14Yeah, they are. In this translation.

16:21It was Menelaus that says that in, like, the actual Greek. Like, I mean, she did cut in first, so that tracks. Yeah, she's a little mouthy in this translation. Helen is, isn't she half God herself? Yes, but that doesn't really do anything for you superpower-wise. Yeah. Well, doesn't it sometimes, though, like Heracles? Isn't he strong because of that? Yeah, I don't know. But I was just thinking maybe her connection to the gods lets her interpret it.

16:53I mean, they usually say, oh, Athena put this in her mind. They don't say that. And I just think it's, like, super interesting also, because all joking aside, this isn't all the translations because it's in the text. Menelaus is thinking about it, and she answers the question in a way that's, like, about as both accurate and kind of inspiring for Telemachus as it can be. Yeah, and he needed to hear it, too. Yeah, and he still keeps saying, oh, my father is dead or whatever.

17:25But, yeah, it almost starts to be, like, that's just the thing I always say. Yeah. He's starting to maybe not believe it anymore.

Meeting Theoclymenus

17:32Yeah, then we get, like, this weird, the Theo-Clymenus, like, background of this guy. And it really is extensive. I was so confused. I was so confused. Because it says, like, he meets up with this guy, like a foreigner. And then it's, like, who had done this and had run away. But he was a prophet who was descended from this guy who lived here who was, like, the son of this guy. And by the time we get to the end, I forgot who we were even talking about. Totally. And then you find out, like, at first you think, okay, is this the story of this guy? But it's not. Yeah, yeah, it's not. Like, it's the story of his, like, great-grandparents and then his parents.

18:05And then you're like, oh, and he was the son of that guy who was also just kind of a minor character that kind of got pissed off with his dad and left. But, like, the point of the story was, like, all the stuff that had happened, like, two generations back. Yeah. It's weird. You could do a miniseries on, like, that little bit right there. It feels like this is the busy work part when they were in the oral tradition making people memorize it. You gotta get Theoclyminus' story right. No, it was Oaclise. But I bet you could find, like, real, I don't know.

18:38Like, I trust this book. Like, some people trust the Bible. Like, it's not in there unless it has a reason. I just, like, you know, at a certain point you have to make business decisions about what you focus on and what you don't. But I like when he actually talks, it's very down to the point. He says, Because I, too, am far from home. I killed a man of my own tribe, and I have many brothers and kinsmen, powerful in Argos. So I am on the run. They want to kill me. I've been doomed to homelessness. But please let me on board your ship. I come to you in desperation.

19:09Otherwise, I will surely be killed. Those men are after me. Which, by the way, has nothing to do with the story that was just told. Right. A hundred percent disconnected from that. Like, unless thematically. But, like, in terms of the plot of it. Yeah. Yeah, so when he talks, he just gets down to business. And I got to think that this is part of the anxiety of Odysseus, almost like just manifesting in terms of a person. Like, I'm being chased. Like, Poseidon hates me.

19:39I don't trust the gods. And, like, I got to get out. I got to keep going. And maybe it's more like when he was floating on the way to Calypso's island. But this guy seems to me to be, like, a representation in some way of Odysseus' homelessness and feeling like the whole world was out to get him. Yeah. I like that. I mean, the trip into the psyche. I also like this because I think it would be a tough decision just from the description for Telemachus to make where he has to say, like, okay, am I going to abide by this pretty strict customs of hospitality?

20:15And this guy's just told me he's a murderer. So either he's lying and he's a liar or he's a murderer and he's a murderer. So do I really want to, like, after all this, like, it's a risk for me to even get home. But I took it as Telemachus being, like, a judge of character. Like, he could tell that this guy was, like, genuine and needed help. Yeah. And he's like, he does exactly the, you know, like, this is your ship as much as it is mine. Like, make yourself at home. And you're right. This guy has confessed already to being a murderer.

20:46And he's like, sure, come on our ship. People are chasing me. I'm on the run. Like, come on my ship. Right. Like, this is what I think he's, I think he always would have wanted to do that, maybe because of the Eumaeus character building. But, like, this trip has made him just know to just say, okay, I can, this is a worthwhile risk. Like, it's the moral thing to do and I can handle it, you know? Yeah. And that's, like, the moral development of a person, any person, can't occur until they're put in situations that allow them to sort of, like, test their judgment and test their moral muscle.

21:20And he's basically spent his life being, like, kicked around by these suitors. And now he's finally out in the world where he can make these decisions. Yeah. It's like the Karate Kid. A movie I've never seen. He's been waxing on. Oh, you've never seen it, God. Have you seen it? Like, ten times. Yeah. This is our age difference. It was, like, just a couple of years off for you. No, I don't think so. So, like, my generation, well, first of all, we're the same generation, so I can't even believe I fell for that.

21:54You know what? Never mind.

21:57I'm going to cut all of this. Yeah, so then you cut to Odysseus.

Odysseus tests Eumaeus

22:02And what's kind of interesting about the beginning of this is Odysseus is still testing Eumaeus. He's like, I'm going to test Eumaeus to see if he'll be hospitable or he'll make me go to the suitors. And it's like, what does he need to fucking do? Like, he's clearly loyal to you, you know? But Eumaeus passes it perfectly. He says, like, no, you can't go see the suitors. You'd be killed if you set foot among that horde of suitors. Their aggression reaches the iron sky, and those who wait on them are not like you.

22:34They're young men, well-dressed. This, again, this is so, like, internal, I think. They're well-dressed with bright, clean hair and handsome faces, serving the bread and wine and meat, piled high upon their polished tables. Stay here. And, like, that's passing the test perfectly. And he says here, which I think calls back to Theoclimus, he says, I hope Zeus loves you as I do, since you have saved me from the agonies of wandering. The worst things humans suffer is homelessness. We must endure this life because of desperate hunger.

23:07We endure as migrants with no home. Relevant today, Chandler. It really is. I love agonies of wandering, too, like, the save me the agonies of wandering. Yeah. Yeah. I guess as a reminder, like, Odysseus is still in his old costume, Athena's old cosplay. You know, the immigration thing is actually, like, an interesting point. This is something about, like, hospitality. And that's always, like, part of the conflict of this because it's a virtue to be hospitable and it's a risk to be hospitable.

23:46And yet you should do it anyway in a lot of cases. And, like, that theme has been with us, like, in all cultures, you know, for 3,000 years and right now is obviously playing out today. Yeah. I mean, just as a general thing, when I read this, like, it makes me sad. Like, I think, like, even just, you know, immigration obviously is writ large. But even just in our daily lives, like, it's like we've lost some of this. And not all cultures have. But those norms of hospitality that were so strong, like, in the Bible, like, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is basically, like, two strangers arrive at a house.

24:21And he's just like, yeah, come. Like, you're my guest in my house. And, like, a mob of dudes comes and is like, we want to fuck those guys who just came in. He's like, no. I'll give you my daughters. Yeah, I'll give you my daughters. Which is not cool. Which is hospitality, yeah. I think that takes it a little farther than I would. But it was, like, a serious thing, you know? Yeah. Yeah, that's where I would draw the line. But, you know, I think you're right that we're, in America, we're on the bad end of that culturally. And I don't know if it was always like that.

24:52But maybe it's because this wasn't our home to begin with. I don't know. Good point. So Odysseus here asks about his parents. Yeah. And we find, you know, a few times, this is another thing that made, this actually was an emotional read for me. Like, just what happened to Laertes. Yeah. You know, how he's just like, the grief has made him wither away and how his mother died from the grief. And it's like, once the hope has truly, like, gone in Laertes' heart, he's just like, just a pile of bones, it seems.

25:23Yeah. I think that's really sad, too. And it's a little weird when later Telemachus doesn't want Eumaeus to go out of his way to tell him that he's safe. I know. And it's just kind of underscoring, like, what the toll was of Odysseus leaving. Yeah. So this is where we got what I think is an absolutely beautiful passage where Odysseus asks him to tell the story, you know, how he got here.

Eumaeus tells his story

25:48Since he clearly got here when he was very young and was treated very well by Odysseus' parents. And so his response is, since you have asked this question, stranger, listen, enjoy my story, sitting quietly, drinking your wine. These nights are magical, with time enough to sleep and to enjoy hearing a tale. You need not sleep too early. It's unhealthy. Any other man who feels the need of sleep should go lie down, get up at dawn, have breakfast, and go herd the master's pigs.

26:19But let us, you and I, sit in my cottage over food and wine and take some joy in hearing how much pain we each have suffered. After many years of agony and absence from one's home, a person can begin enjoying grief. That's an interesting line, right? After many years of agony and absence from one's home, a person can begin enjoying grief. I will tell you my story as you ask. It's just a lot there, you know? I know. It's wise. I can't put my finger on what that wisdom is for some reason.

26:52Like, what is the difference between Laertes, like, eating away with grief and Eumaeus being able to grow old and find ways to enjoy his grief? Well, I think one thing is, if you can share it with somebody and they can share their grief with you, that there's a joy in that. Like, it's just the ability to unload and have someone bear witness to your suffering. It's not even just it eases the pain. There's actual positive joy that comes from it.

27:25You know, do I think it's like that? Maybe, you know, maybe this is some of the morning rituals that people have, like, you know, sitting Shiva or something where a lot of people will tell stories. Like, the social aspect of it is, I think, the most significant part of it. Yep. And there is a meta way in which embracing your grief can help you deal with it in a way. Like, we've talked about this before. Obviously, many people have talked about it. It's like resisting it, fighting it is what makes you unhappy.

27:58And so here he's like, let's tell our tale of sadness and, like, find some joy in this. Like, yeah. Yeah. So then he tells his story, which involves the Phoenicians. Yeah. These merchants. Yeah. My peoples. These are my ancestors because they are the ones who became the Lebanese. Oh, really? Yeah. Phoenicia was, like, basically Lebanon. All the coastal area there. And it's my people that always get accused of being conniving little merchants. They were merchants. What's funny, because, you know, having read some about the Phoenicians, we know so little about them.

28:35Like, whatever records they kept were on papyrus. Like, so the city of Byblos and the city of Tyre, whatever. Like, that papyrus just didn't keep, right? So unlike those clay tablets that the Sumerians and stuff wrote on, the papyrus didn't keep. They didn't seem to have written a lot anyway about their own culture. Yeah. And so what we know about them really are from people who were kind of antagonistic toward them, like the Greeks and the Romans. Like, that's where we get the most. But they were, like, active for, like, 3,000 years or some crazy shit. Like, just traveling up and down, building their boats from the cedars in Lebanon.

29:07Yeah. And they just didn't, like, leave records of it, so we don't know about it. Yeah. That's right. So whatever we hear from Homer, it's going to be a little salty, is what I'm saying. I love here the sex sways all women's minds. Even the best of them. Even the best of them. Yeah. So she does a real, I guess she was a slave, too, who was, like, the nanny or the, you know, the caretaker of the au pair for Eumaeus. Who was sold as a slave. It's only a one-time fee rather than a salary.

29:38Yeah, exactly. And then, so she really plays a long game, like, a whole year of just secrecy until, you know, they made enough money to load their ships, and then they take her, and she, as a way of enticing them, says, I'll get you this son of a king that you can sell for a lot of money. Because they're promising to take her back to Phoenicia, where she's from, to meet her family. Yeah, right. Yeah. And then it ends, like you said, like, in a very strange thing. Like, I guess Artemis didn't think this was cool.

30:10I guess so. You know, they're always blaming the gods. Like, it sounds like she just slipped. Yeah. So it says, for seven days we sailed, and on the eighth Artemis struck the women with her arrows. She crashed into the ship's hold like a seagull. They threw her overboard to feed the fish and seals, and I was left there brokenhearted.

30:31It's like a seagull. Yeah. Like the dumbest bird. Yeah, it's funny. Like, it's a very unceremonious, like, ending for her. For her, like, years-long plans. Yeah. It really is. It really drives home the point that, like, fate is cruel and, like, just, like, capricious. Odysseus must have known this story already, right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So I think he, when he did that, it was a nice thing.

31:03Like, I know this, to unload your burden. But then, what does he say at the end that kind of ruins him being, like, a total mensch? In the end, though, Zeus has blessed you, since, basically, your slave owner was nice. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it says, my heart is touched to hear the story of your sufferings, Eumaeus. In the end, though, Zeus has blessed you, since after going through all that, you came to live with someone kind, a man who gives you plenty to eat and drink. Your life is good. But as for me, I am still lost. You were doing so well up till then.

31:35It's like, God, you're so lucky that I was so good to you. And I guess his parents do. Yeah, that's the end of, they just kind of fade off into the night. It's very beautiful. Yeah. And then we pick up Telemachus.

Telemachus returns to Ithaca

31:49Yeah.

Telemachus returns to Ithaca

31:50Who's coming near the mainland. I guess he sneaks past the... It's not totally clear. Like, they have all these scouts, like, looking out for a boat, and somehow they're able to dock the ship without anyone noticing. Maybe Athena did something to them, or maybe they just kind of got drunk and fell asleep. But in any case, like, he's able to do that, and he's able to get away, go see Eumaeus. Yeah. And then there's another bird omen. Yeah. So, Telemachus, some god, has sent this bird to fly on your right hand.

32:22I knew at once it was a sign. Yeah. So, it was a hawk this time. A bird flew on his right, a hawk Apollo's messenger. It clutched a pigeon in its talons. Feathers scattered between the ship and young Telemachus. So, this time it's a hawk with a pigeon. Yeah. Last time it was an eagle with a goose. And so, he gives a prophecy. He's got a little prophecy in him. He's a little Nepo baby prophecy guy. Yeah. He says, some god has sent this bird to fly on your right hand. I knew at once it was a sign. No family in all of Ithaca has greater power. You are the king's forever.

32:54To which Telemachus replied, oh, stranger, I hope your words come true. If so, I would give you so many gifts to show my friendship that everyone you met would be impressed. Yeah. And it's funny because, like, initially he said, yeah, why don't you just go try your luck with the suitors? I can't host you right now. Yeah. But then after he says that, he's like, you know what? Here's my best man. Hold up at his house. But that's fine. Like, just the fact that he took him on the boat is good. So then, yeah, now we got the big reunion.

Father and son reunite

33:22And I just love this. So, they're talking. And then Odysseus says, you may have someone must be coming. A friend or somebody you know. The dogs are friendly. With no barking, I can hear footsteps. And it says, He hardly finished when his son, his own dear son, was there inside the gate. Amazed, the swineherd. It's just interesting. It goes right to the swineherd, you know. The swineherd jumped up, letting fall. The cups in which he had been mixing wine, it spilled. He ran towards his master, kissed his face and shining eyes in both his hands and wept.

33:53Just as a father, when he sees his own dear son, his only son, his dear, most precious boy returned from foreign lands after ten years of grieving for his loss, welcomes him. So, the swineherd wrapped his arms around godlike Telemachus and kissed him as if he were returning from the dead. Yeah, so sweet. And, like, I think it's interesting that he gives the simile of, like, a real father. And also that, like, he's the first to jump up. Of course, Odysseus can't really jump up like that.

34:24He's still in his old body, too. Yeah. But, yeah, it's just another kind of, not ironic, but just kind of poignant bit of, ah, this is so complicated. Like, everything that's happening. I know. You think, like, what is Odysseus feeling in that moment when he sees Eumaeus has had this relationship with his son that he was never able to have? Yeah. I think this is the first time, but I could be wrong, that it says godlike Telemachus. Like, Odysseus, it's usually godlike Odysseus. Yeah. You know?

34:54Yeah. I think that might be right. Yeah. I don't know. But that hasn't been one of the, like, little monikers that he's been called, I don't think, before. But I think, you know, he's come back a little bit changed. He's come back a little matured. I love that Odysseus starts to get up because he's supposed to be a beggar. And Telemachus is like, no, sit down. I'll find a chair somewhere. You know, like, but he still has a little kid in him. When Eumaeus says, like, maybe he should go to see the suitors, he's like, oh, god, this is worrying to me.

35:25How can I invite him to my house? I'm too young to fight back with my fist if someone picks a fight with me. My mother is unsure if she should stay with me and show respect towards her husband. Like, he starts getting a little, he starts perseverating a little bit here, you know? And it's, like, the moment he walks back into the home, like, environment. Yeah. He's, like, lost a little bit of his energy. Yeah, I think that's right. It's like, oh, all these other anxieties are now, like, they've been reawakened. Yeah. And you fall into, like, old patterns, too. Yeah. When I go home to my parents' house, I just sit there and let my mom serve me like a fucking asshole.

36:03Because she always did. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really nice point, I think. One of the things about getting away was he was able to, like, forget about the suitors and questions about his mother. And, like, and now it's just all flooding back. Yeah. But, you know, he bounces back a little bit. Totally. Like, he's like, okay, I got to make a call. So, look, this guy came to your house. Like, we have to treat him right. And I'll bring a cloak and a tunic and sandals and a sword and help him on his way. I don't think we talked about the cloak.

36:34But that's, like, a big thing that people talk about is the cloak that Yumaeus gives him at the end. And now he has a new cloak. And I haven't really dug into it. But there's, like, a whole literature around the cloak. So, Odysseus hears about the suitors and the situation.

Planning the revenge

36:50And it says, then Odysseus, frustrated, said, my friend, it is my duty to speak out when I hear the dreadful things those suitors have been doing in your house against your will. It breaks my heart. You're a good man. Tell me, did you choose to let them bully you? So, he's testing his own son here a little bit. Have the Ithacans been turned against you by some god? Or do you blame your brothers, who should be a man's supporters when conflict comes? If only I had youth to match my will. I wish I were the son of great, great Odysseus. Or that I were the man himself coming home from wandering.

37:20We can still hope. Yeah, that's so interesting, that part. And also, like, why would he say the thing about his brothers if he knows he doesn't have brothers? And maybe it's just his own guilt, too. It's like, if I was here, I would, if I lost, I would rather die in my own house than watch such crimes committed. Strangers dishonored. But that's, like, sort of like just being a dick to Telemachus. Like, saying, like, you haven't done what you should have done. If it were me, I would have died by now trying to, like, solve this injustice.

37:53Yeah, it's true. I kind of read it this time thinking it was also more, why have the Ithacans let this happen? But it is. It's like, what's wrong with you? Like, how are you letting, how are you, but like, yeah, he was like 15 years old when they all, like, descended on the house. Like, what's he supposed to do? He's like, my father fucking went to fight some war for some chick he probably banged once. Yeah. I think he kind of makes up for it, you know, in the reveal where he says, I'm the one that brought you all this suffering and heartbreak.

38:23But, yeah. I mean, and it's fair that he wants, like, there's some questions that are clearly he's trying to gather information. Like, have the Ithacans turned against you? Like, what's going on here? Yeah, but you're right. It's a little bit like, what's wrong with you? How'd you fuck up my house like this? Yeah. But I like Telemachus' reply. He's like, let me explain, stranger. The Ithacans aren't my enemies. I don't have brothers I can blame. Zeus gave my family a single line. Arseseus had just one son, Laertes, who had Odysseus, his only son. And he had me, his only son, whom he left back at home.

38:55And this part got me. He had no joy of me. Yeah. How do you read that? So, like, as somebody who, you know, I have a son now who's almost two, and I've spent the day, the entire day with him. If you took that away from me, imagine taking all of those years of, like, growing up with Eliza. Take that away. She's still your daughter, but you had no joy of her. Yeah. Like, you didn't get that joy, the joy that a father should have. So, he's, like, expressing some sympathy for his dad.

39:27He's not even blaming his dad. He's, like, he didn't get, he had no joy of me. Yeah. So, that was, that's definitely one way to read it. The other reading is kind of the opposite of that, which is, like, he apparently had no interest in raising a little infant because he left to go fight this, you know, harebrained war. That's the only other reading. And I don't think it's like that. I think it's, like, what you're saying. Like, he never got to enjoy, like, having a son. Yeah. You know, like, his grandfather and his great-grandfather and all that.

39:59Exactly. Yeah. And it would, like, I guess it would turn on just the phrasing in the Greek, which I have no idea what it is. Because if it had said he had no joy for me, like, I would read it more like that second way. I'll tell you why this occurred to me is because you remember the story that he tells Eumaeus about being someone in Crete and this is Odysseus telling that story. And then there was that weird little interval where he came home, but then he's like, ah, raising a family wasn't for me. I was still in a warrior mindset.

40:30And so I left. And so, like, I thought that was Odysseus maybe kind of confessing that he was, he maybe felt like he didn't want to be the domestic type at that time in his life. And now Telemachus is kind of signaling that. I'd like to look at, like, maybe by next episode I'll look at some other translations. Because I think it's probably you're right in that interpretation, but I'm not sure. The other thing that could be going on is that he means that second thing that you were just saying, but he is not going to put his dad on blast to a stranger.

41:05So he's basically euphemistically saying, my dad left me. Right. Right. He didn't get to enjoy me. And he didn't seem to really want to either because that was a completely voluntary war that he signed up for. Maybe now that he saw Helen. Like, he's like, yeah, maybe it was worth it. Do you have anything to say about how, like, he gives Eumaeus kind of, like, very strict instructions, but tells him not to, you know, Eumaeus is always thinking about everybody. And he's like, what about poor old Laertes?

41:36And he's like, no. And I don't totally know why. He says, it's sad, distressing news, but no, leave him alone. If human wishes could come true, my first would be to have my father come back home. It's like, why does he say that? Like, what relevance is that to whether Eumaeus tells Laertes or not? Like, I don't totally get this part. Yeah. I don't know. It seemed a little cold. Like, the only thing I could think is if you're trying to limit the information, like, maybe he just doesn't trust that he won't say this to some of one of his slaves.

42:08Say what? That he's home? Like, people know. Yeah, I know. Like, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, he's being sneaky. I'm not quite exactly sure. Like, since he's going to go have a messenger tell his mom that he's home, I don't know, like, what kind of sneaky he's trying to be. No, and he wants her to send a slave girl to tell Laertes. So it's not even that he doesn't want Laertes to know. Yeah, right, right, right. Tell mother she should send a girl in secret to run to all Laertes with the news. So who knows? But I feel like Laertes gets a bit of a raw deal sometimes. I know. We might see that again.

42:40Yeah.

Athena transforms Odysseus

42:41So then we have what is, you know, a very emotional scene. One thing that's kind of interesting is that Athena, like, has to kind of prod him to do it. And the reason she does it is, I love this, that she's itching to fight. So she wants him to start planning how to kill the suitors. And she's like, we're in book 16, dude. Come on. Let's fight.

43:05Yeah. She is a troublemaker. And then she does the makeover. Yeah. She made him taller and younger looking. He became tanned and his cheeks filled out. And we're told that only Odysseus sees her. Telemachus couldn't. The dogs could see her, but they're like afraid of her. Dogs are smart. Like, I'm not fucking with Athena. They whimpered and slunk back across the room in fear. She raised her eyebrows with a nod. He understood and came out past the wall and stood beside her. And so from like Telemachus's perspective, he's just like some invisible thing is happening.

43:40And he's just like turning into a different guy. And so his son was startled and looked down, afraid in case it was a god. Yeah. His words flew out. Stranger, you look so different from before. And then he says, and I love this, I am no god. Why would you think such things? I am your father, that same man you mourn. It is because of me, these brutal men are hurting you so badly. So I, first of all, I think that's kind of interesting that he, he takes a little responsibility there. Like, even if it was like, like you were saying that he was saying what, like, what the fuck, Telemachus, then?

44:15Like, why did you let this happen? Right now he's saying these men are hurting you and it's my fault, you know? And like, yeah, and then like, he's crying, like he's, he's crying for the reunion, but the son, like Telemachus doesn't necessarily accept it. Right. That's like the suspicion that I was remembering when I said they were testing loyalty. Like I, it wasn't really in my head that Telemachus was testing anyone's loyalty. It was that he was just standoffish because he required more evidence, which is totally reasonable in this situation.

44:45Like he has no fucking idea what his father would look like. And this is what I think Odysseus was worried about. Like, how am I going to convince them that I really am Odysseus? Like, I can't show them my ID. Like I, you know, it's been 20 years, but he does it by like convincing it, like basically telling him the truth. The goddess can transform me as she likes. Sometimes a homeless beggar, then she makes me look like a young man wearing princely clothes. For heavenly gods, it's not difficult to make a mortal beautiful or ugly.

45:16And what I thought was so interesting about this, like, again, if you want to read it a little more metaphorically, it's like, you know, he's always in disguises. He's like the big, the disguise king. And, you know, it's like in that Talking Heads song, like, I don't know what I look like. Like, it's like, I'm sometimes this, you know, then I meet Nazca, she dresses me up nice. And then I look like this, but then I'm back to being a beggar. And like, you know, it's just like fate is what's doing this in addition to, yes, of course, Athena's waving her wand and doing it.

45:47But I think it like gets at that kind of, we can look good or bad depending on circumstances. And like emotionally too. Like, it's like he is attractive when he is reunited with his son. He is attractive when he finally has contact with another set of humans and Nausicaa, you know, mix them up. Like, it tracks him. Yeah, totally. And then finally, Telemachus believes that it's him. And yeah, then you get that really nice simile. Do you have that up? With that, he sat back down.

46:18Telemachus hurled his arms around his father and he wept. They both felt deep desire for lamentation and wailed with cries as shrill as birds. Like eagles or vultures when the hunters have deprived them of fledglings who have not yet learned to fly. That was how bitterly they wept. Their grieving would have continued till the sun went down. That's an interesting simile there, right? Like, because it involves like infants that didn't get a chance to even learn to fly. They were already killed, you know? It's like heartbreaking. Yeah.

46:49Like, when the eagles got their little babies stolen from them. And that's probably how they feel. Like, even though they're humans and they're the ones that are doing that to the eagles, like the gods are doing it to them, you know? Yeah, that's right. Like, yeah, so then they start planning.

Counting the suitors

47:04Yeah. I love Odysseus is so, like, I'm well known for my intelligence.

47:11We get it. This is the first time I realized how many suitors there were. Like, it's never numbered before this. Yeah, it's like 116 or something like that. 52 came from Delicium, all top-notch fighters who brought six henchmen. 24 men came from same, 20 more from Zasynthus, and from right here on Ithaca came 12, all strong young men. So, yeah, it's like the ultimate reality show. And interestingly, I don't know if I picked up on this before, but the two kind of worst ones, Antinous and Eurymachus, are both from Ithaca.

47:49Yeah. So they're really, like, kind of poisonous. And Antinous, we learn at the end of this book, like, his father was kind of saved by Odysseus. I know. He's the worst. Like, I think Eurymachus is smarter, so he's, like, maybe a little more evil than Antinous, but Antinous is, like, just the most malevolent, I think. He's always like, okay, we got to find a new plan to kill Telemachus. Yeah. I like when they're planning, like, the violence, and Telemachus is like, dude, there's too many dudes.

48:19You know, there's too many guys. It's totally, like, a heist movie. Yeah. There's just too many guys. We got to think better. Yeah. How did you read when Odysseus says, do you think Athena and her father Zeus would be strong enough to keep us safe? Is he being, like, kind of sarcastic? He's like, oh, do you mean, like, the two most powerful gods? Like, if we had them on our side? Is that what he's saying? He don't think that would do the trick. Like, the ultimate all-father? Oh, because they have the six henchmen. I forgot about the six henchmen. You know? Like, oh, and the, yeah, and the bard.

48:51I would love it if it's like that, but. I feel like it might be. But maybe it's also just, like, trying to get him to, like, get out and don't think like that. You can't, you know. Yeah. Whatever it was, Telemachus read it literally, like, in an autistic way. He's like, the ones you mentioned are good defenders. They do sit high among the clouds, and they control both men and gods. I mean, like, if you're talking about those two in, like, in particular, yeah. They have, like, 328 on base.

49:23So that's a problem. But they. They do 28 damage every time they attack with their. Their net rating is, like, plus 24 in, like, the Trojan War. So that was good.

49:38Money, money balling the fucking Olympians.

49:42And I think, yeah, that totally is true. I mean, I don't think they totally mean it like that. But, but then I think, like, this is what I like. Like, so Odysseus is kind of in charge of this conversation. And maybe that is a little sarcastic. And he's definitely doing, like, the George Clooney, like, Ocean's Eleven thing of, like. Yeah. But then he says, one more thing. If you are my true son of my own blood, let no one know that I'm in the house. Laertes and the swineherd must not know. Nor any of the slave girls and not even Penelope until we have determined the woman's attitude.

50:15This is where I was really curious. So, nor any of the slave girls and not even Penelope until we have determined the woman's attitude. Is he talking about all of, like, the slave girls and Penelope? Is that like an include? Because it's women, plural. Yeah. Like, we can't trust women, basically. Yeah. And then he says, we must also test the male slaves. This was what I was alluding to earlier. Yeah. And see who has respect and fears me in his heart and who does not. And who looks up to you as you deserve. And this is where Telemachus said, and he's glowing when he says it. You will see my courage in the moment.

50:45I am tough. But it would take too long to go around and test each man like that. And all the while, the suitors would be sitting in your house, wasting your wealth with heedless partying. Now, so reconsider. Like, yeah, I agree about the women, which of them are innocent and which dishonor you. That'll actually come back in a kind of grisly way. However, I have no desire to traipse around to test the men. We can do that later if Zeus reveals a sign to you. So, like, I think that part of this is a little like he's almost saying, like, if Odysseus was frustrated before, he's a little frustrated.

51:18Like, you're here. Let's do this. Like, let's not fuck around, like, testing everyone constantly. But Odysseus is testing obsessed. Yeah. I was reading this, like, as Odysseus, because I had the same question as you. Like, what the fuck, Odysseus? That he's just broken about this. Like, he's been, like, at war too much and, like, betrayed or whatever. Like, this is him being just ultra paranoid in a way that, like, would keep you alive during war. And maybe even here. Maybe he's right.

51:48But it's, like, certainly seems excessive. Yeah. I don't, like, I don't find it to be strategic at the margins of it. Like, there just seems like a disorder almost. Like, or at least, like, I think it's strategic. You could even say, although everyone has assured him that Penelope stays true, you could even understand it maybe with Penelope. I don't really understand the strategic importance of doing this with Eumaeus. No, right. I think it's, like, an adaptation that is, like, overfiring right now. Yeah. But I would suggest, at least, I'm not sure of this, but I would suggest that it's also him, like, it's a procrastination thing.

52:26It's a postponing of, like, I don't know if I'm fully back to being Odysseus. Like, I can plan this shit, but can I actually carry it out? And so maybe he just wants to kind of gather himself before and do what he does best, which is test people and lie to them and pretend to be somebody else. Yeah. I'm not even clear what it means to test them in. Like, would it just be, like, asking them questions like he's been doing with Eumaeus? Or, like, that's what he's talking about. Like, when he said to Eumaeus, so maybe I should go to the suitors.

52:59What do you think? I want to earn my keep, you know? And then Eumaeus was like, no, you stay here. Don't, you know, like, that was, like, a test. And he was, you know, he wanted to test Telemachus at one point even, I think. And, yeah, and there's more testing. A lot more testing to come. But I like that, like, Telemachus locks that down. Totally. That was the moment. Yeah, that was, like, a real important moment for my reading of Telemachus, that he was, he's accepted that it's his father. And, like, think about how large he looms in the minds of everyone.

53:32Yeah. He is practically a god. And so for him to have, like, the courage to stand up to his own father is a good sign that he might have the courage to stand up to anybody. Totally. One thing that is an echo of, like, something that happened much earlier. So when he says, the swine herd will escort me into town. I will look like a beggar. If they abuse me and you see me suffer, you must restrain yourself, repress your feelings, even if they are pelting me with weapons, even if they grab me by the foot to hurl me out. So he's like, this is his way of trying to infiltrate his own house is to dress up as a beggar.

54:07Right? Yeah. And this calls back to what Helen said in book four. She was telling a story about how Odysseus, in advance of the Trojan horse trick, came into town to, like, lay the groundwork somehow. And Helen was the only one that recognized him. And so, and then he kind of told her the plan and she was supposed to play along, but then didn't once the Trojan horse was in there. So it's like he's going back to the playbook in a way. Like, this is what worked in the Trojan war.

54:37I dressed up like a beggar. I got into a city of my enemy, except now it's his own house, you know? And that's very cool. I don't think I noticed that before this time. Yeah. Yeah. That's super cool. Yeah. I also just, like, it's kind of nice to be like, hey, look, son, they might treat me like shit, but like lay back. Like, don't let that get to you. Yeah. Right. It's part of the plan. Self-control is the key, you know? Like, that's something that he has in spades. It gets away from him a couple times, but mostly that's the thing that he's, like, it's one of his primary virtues, really.

55:14That's right. And, like, the kind of deception that he engages in requires, like, a ton of self-control. Yeah. Yeah. This is what Helen said. She said, he beat himself and bruised his body badly and put a ragged cloak on like a slave, then shuffled through the enemy city streets. In his disguise, he seemed like a poor old beggar, hardly a man to sail with the Achaeans. He crept through Troy like that, and no one knew him. And now he's doing that same thing, but in his own city, trying to get into his own house. So, that's very cool.

Penelope confronts Antinous

55:46All right.

Penelope confronts Antinous

55:47So, then we get the suitors, and they're all, you know, God, God damn it. He made it. He made it. What's wrong? Except this one. So, there's Eurymachus, the smart evil one, and then Antinous, the kind of medium intelligence, the midwit evil one. And then there's Infinimus, who is not from Ithaca, and is like the best one, it seems. Like, he was against the Telemachus murder to begin with, and he was happy to see that the ship came home, and he says, let's not kill him.

56:23He's been like that, like the kind of the biggest mensch among the suitors, but he's still a suitor and still doing the things that they all do. Right. It does say Penelope preferred his speeches over all the other ones. Like the, let's not kill your son's speeches. I can see why. Yeah.

56:43Probably the other ones, too. I like that she really upbraids Antinous. Yeah. She fucking, like, rips him a new one. You are a brute, a sneak, a criminal. The people say you're the smartest boy of all those your own age on Ithaca. It is not true. You're insane. How could you devise a plan to kill Telemachus? Do you have no respect for ties created by supplication, which Zeus watches over? Have you forgotten that your father came here running in terror from the Ithacans who were enraged because he joined the pirates of Tafos and was hounding the Thesprosians, our allies?

57:15So the Ithacans were eager to kill him, rip his heart out, and devour his wealth. Odysseus protected him. Now you consume your benefactor's wealth and court his wife and try to kill his son. And you're hurting me. I tell you, stop and make the other suitors stop as well. Yeah. Like, how long have the suitors been there? Like, four years, I think. Yeah. I just think, like, it's a little weird that, like, she'll speak to him like that, but then he's still a suitor and he's still, like, why can't she say, I swear on Zeus and Athena, I'm not going to marry you, so get the fuck out of my house.

57:46Like, why can't she say that? I know, I know, I don't know, I mean, I think this is part of the puzzle of Penelope, too, because she could, but, like, I think, you know, she was like, I still have, like, a lot of life in me and I don't, like, if he's dead, I kind of need to take care of me. Yeah. Yeah, she's kind of stalling, too. She has been. The whole cloak weaving, unweaving, weaving, unweaving thing is kind of, I don't want to have to make a decision right now. And they're both kind of like that in their own ways. Like, one thing I firmly believe, and I'll be interested to see if you agree with this as you go forward, is that they are soulmates, those two, Penelope and Odysseus.

58:27Penelope and Odysseus, yeah. So then Euromachus says, like, just the foulest shit. I was reading this and I was getting angry myself, where he's like, wise Penelope, you need not worry, put this from your mind, no man will ever, ever hurt your boy while I'm still alive upon this earth. I swear to you, if someone tries, my sword will spill his blood. Your city-sacking husband often would take me on his lap and give me tidbits of meat with his own hands and sips of red wine. What a fuck. So Telemachus is now the man I love the most in all the world.

59:00The boy is in no danger, not from us. There is no help for death brought by the gods. Yeah, so just setting that aside, you know. Yeah, what a dick. Yeah, that's why I think he's the most evil. Because Antinous is like, oh, sorry, you know. Euromachus just comes in and is like, oh, we love this kid. Oh, are you kidding me?

59:21Yeah, she cries again and goes to sleep. And that's it. Things are going to start to pick up. But really, I think these two books, you know, I was looking through my old lectures. I've lectured, I thought, on every section of this book at some point, because I've probably done the course like seven times or eight times over the years. But this is the one section I've never lectured on. Like I've lectured on like other sections more than once.

59:51But this one, like 14, 15, 16, something like that, like never before. 17 on a lot. But yeah. So like, you know, it's different when you're lecturing on something, you go, you dive into it. You like swim in the text to like try to find something interesting to like an angle or something. But I haven't really done that with these books. And I'm glad just this episode like kind of forced me to do that because it's really beautiful. Oh, awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.

Closing thoughts on the episode

1:00:19By the way, there was one last thing that I just really loved. The very last paragraph when it says, then Prince Telemachus began to smile and met his father's eyes. He did not let you see. Like they're planning, like they're in the know with each other. Like there's this little connection that they have. Yeah. And then they took the gift of sleep. Oh, they all shared their dinner equally was also nice. Yes. Right. Yeah. The three of them. They all shared their dinner equally. That's a very symbolic thing, you know. And then the thing that he's smiling about is, so Eumaeus is looking out and he says, oh, I did see one more thing.

1:00:55As I passed the hill of Hermes right above the town, I saw a ship draw into harbor full of men and loaded up with shields and spears. I thought it could be them, the suitors, but I cannot be sure. I think the thing that he's smiling about is, no, that was me and all the treasure and like that fucking Hephaestus bowl and all that that's coming aboard. So maybe it's that. This bowl right here. Yeah, exactly. So I thought, is that the thing he's smiling about? Or maybe it's the dumbass suitor scouts that went out there to kill him.

1:01:26That's what I thought, like the ones who were trying to ambush him. Either way, Telemachus is like feeling himself a little bit there. Great Telemachus. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. All right. Join us next time. 17 and 18 things are going to heat up. And yeah, we're coming to the great interpretive question that I want to pose to you. All right. Join us next time on The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eater.

1:01:56The Lotus Eaters.

1:02:26The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters.