The Lotus Eaters Episode 11: Cleaning House

Welcome and series overview

0:00Dear listeners, thank you for joining us on our voyage into Homer's Odyssey. You're listening to the Lotus Eaters, a 12-part series on Homer's Odyssey that was funded by our generous supporters over at Patreon.com. It's because of that support that we're able to release this series for everyone. If you'd like to join them in supporting us, please head over to Patreon.com slash VeryBadWizards. One of the benefits will be that you'd get access to all of the Lotus Eaters at once rather than having to wait every week for a new episode to drop, but you'd also get access to hundreds of hours of other bonus content, and Zeus would smile down upon you for your generosity in supporting us.

0:40So thank you for listening. Let's get to the episode.

0:52Let's get to the episode.

Revenge and the house as a character

1:22All right, welcome to another episode of The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eaters. This is it. It's all been building up to this. It is ass-kicking time. It is fuck-around-and-find-out time. It is time to pay the piper. All of that we've been building to this battle. Well, really the whole text, but certainly since book 13, the beginning when he arrives on Ithaca, that was almost half the text ago, and it's just been steadily brewing and building towards this incredible climax, and we just got it.

2:00So we're going to be talking about books 20, 21, and 22 today. Yeah, what did you think? I mean, it's cinematic. Like, it's obviously doing it a disservice to call it a Tarantino movie, but the battle scene, really, you feel like it could be just out of a modern, like, revenge tale. Down to the greatest detail, like, and people accuse Tarantino of, like, ripping off, you know, kung fu movie directors and, like, spaghetti western directors. But, like, this has the same climax and revenge ending as in Glorious Bastards.

2:31They literally, they lock the doors from the outside, and then this group, these people who are pretending to be something they're not, go and they start slaughtering everybody. I mean, it's the same ending as in Glorious Bastards. Right. Yeah. I was thinking Django, not because of the details, but just because of the bloodshed and, like, the revenge and the slaves, the disloyal slaves. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, both. But in terms of the, like, in and closed space, locking these people in, they think they're just there to have a good time.

3:02So, oh, there's so much to talk about. So, just, I can't hold myself from saying this, because it really, like, just stood out to me as a theme, which is the irony of them dying within the house, and them being people who had disrespected the house and people who were, like, described as being, like, the worst in terms of hospitality to, like, meet their fate inside the halls of the presumed host of their, like, misbehavior and the master of the home that they've defiled.

3:33And the house really is a character in this. Like, the scene, the omen of the vision that the prophet has is incredible. And is that even a vision, or is that just what he's seeing before his own eyes? Like, the way I have read what you're talking about there is, you know, because Athena's getting involved, like, it starts to get, like, a horror movie. It's a horror movie, yeah. At that point, you know, their faces are melting. We should, we'll get to that when we'll read the actual passage. But there's a lot of stuff like that, too. Like, real questions about what's a vision, what's real, what is Athena doing during this, during the battle?

4:12She is really, in these three books, egging people on. She's just, like, a troublemaker. Like, she's a shit starter. Yeah. She always has been, but here it's, like, extra clear. Yeah, and she takes it to a more horrifying. She's made the suitors start getting, like, insulting towards Odysseus before, just to get his blood up, because she has a lot of bloodlust. But this new thing of just making them kind of lose their minds and just start cackling. That is, like, the stuff of nightmares, that scene. Yes.

4:42Yeah, in fact, I have that note. This is, like, a nightmare right now. Do you have any other broad themes? So, yeah, just, like, the house as a character, the hospitality, like, the irony of dying in the home. And then, like, it's not really a theme, but, like, especially in Book 20, just all of the omens and the portent, it's this preparing for the battle. The gods, their feathers have been ruffled, and they're preparing, and they're letting the right people know. Yeah. No, it's building on so many levels. It's building in Odysseus's heart. It's building in Telemachus's heart.

5:15But then it's also just the universe is all joining together to make this happen in just the way that it does. Now, that said, there are still some questions, as satisfying as it is, was this justice or was this more like, like, I think you said it well when you said they had defiled the house. Is this like a cleansing? Yeah. Or are those things just not really separate in this case? Yeah. Yeah. It's a good question. And I don't know, like, as I was reading it, I was like, okay, I don't want my modern sensibilities to taint me too much. I mean, I believe in universal moral truths and all as a good Kantian. But at the same time, like, this is just the way, like, people were. Like, this was, I think, a concept of justice.

6:00But it still is. Like, I mean, like, we were just talking about Tarantino movies where the same thing happens and it's not like you are moralizing about that. Yeah. I guess they're not Nazis, the suitors. Right. And even then, I think you could ask the same question about the kinds of deaths that Tarantino often gives. If you were, like, a pain in the ass. If you're a liberal. A little bitch. But, you know, at the very beginning of Book 20, Odysseus is worried. He's like, all right, so, like, say my plan works and I kill them. Like, what's going to happen to me? Like, I worry that people are going to come after me. Where can I run to escape my punishment?

6:37It's like he kind of knows that he might be maybe deserving of punishment if he meets out the revenge in the way that he's going to. Yeah. There's two ways you can look at that. That's absolutely right. Like, is he just as a practical matter that starts a cycle of violence with now their families and stuff like that? And you'll see that will be alluded to in the later books. Not just alluded to, it becomes like a final plot point. But then also, like, does he think he might deserve it, but he has to do it anyway? That's what I mean.

Like, because they've talked about the suitors as if they have been from the start, like an infestation on the house. Like, even just the sheer numbers of them are like, you know, just sort of getting out of control. They seem to multiply. And they are, as you said, defiling the house. They're making it impure.

7:24Or, you know, the stuff that he does at the end after the battle with the fumigating and the scrubbing and the sulfur, like, you know, it's like tenting your house. Yeah. And, yeah, the termites should die and probably the roaches. Nobody's going to shed a tear. But, you know, you might get some little poor rabbit or frog that was in your crawl space. And that's going to die, too. Because the house needs to be cleansed because it's rotten. It's being eaten from within. And so, like, sometimes I think of it also in those terms. Doesn't mean it's not just—certainly doesn't mean that someone like Antinous or Eurymachus doesn't deserve to die because I think they do.

8:02But, you know, there's some other questions about some of the other things and what Telemachus does to the slave girls and Melantheo. Man, oh, man, does Melantheo just— So, like, just as a—my personal journey of this, I was talking to my wife about, like, where we were in the book. I was like, so I know, like, that everyone's going to die. I have no idea, though, like, exactly what happens. So I, like, had no idea how bloody— Yeah, graphic. What I knew just from, like, living in culture was the axes and, like, the arrows. And then, like, I kind of knew the end that, you know, he would kill everybody.

8:38He's going to win the fight. But I did not know he would be chopping off, like, fucking Sicario-style. Yeah. Like, penises and hanging bodies. Penises and then hanging bodies. Yeah. And then just that he's doing all of this, like, buck naked and just has, like— It's so badass. He just has, like, blood and guts all over him, like— Do you think we're going to get full frontal in the Nolan? I had that note, too. Like, are you going to do this? Are you committed, Matt Damon? I hope so. That'd be badass.

9:11Yeah. He might. Nolan likes to be realistic. He might use practical effects, depending. I don't know how well— I don't claim to know how well-hung Matt Damon is. Like the fucking papier-mâché penis at the end of— Boogie Nights. Boogie Nights.

Anachronisms and honor cultures

9:28One of the things that I was curious about was the weaponry and, like, the iron axes. Because I was like, wait, this is, like, a Bronze Age tale, and yet there's iron throughout. And so I was, like, looking it up, and, you know, sure enough, this is, like, one of the pieces of evidence that it's a pastiche, that it's something Homer was putting together in the Iron Age with, like, a memory of the Bronze Age. So it's, like, right at the cusp, sort of, where, like, apparently iron is treated kind of, like, as a valuable thing in the Iliad and the Odyssey.

10:00So it's, like, right when the Iron Age is happening. But, yeah, for all the people who think that adaptations require some sort of historical accuracy, like, it's not—we've said this before, but it's not even historically accurate within the book. It has anachronisms within it. Yeah. And, you know, of course, we don't even know when this is supposed to be taking place, really. It's probably around 1000 or BC or 1100 BC, somewhere around there, but nobody really knows. No, and I kind of like that it's like this, because then it just feels more like this is a legend.

10:35This is something that took place in, yeah, in mythology. Not a real attempt at describing history. Right. In the same way that you don't think there really was a Job, unless you're, like, a literalist. Those are fighting words for 50% of the country, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I actually don't know if people think there's a Job or whatever. But, you know, it's such an iconic story, and Abraham and Isaac and Adam and Eve. I mean, are you supposed to believe in them, too? Yeah. Which version? Which version of Eve?

11:05The one where she comes from the rib or the one where she comes from the ground? Mostly the one where she deserves—like, where women now deserve the way that we treat them. They have been fucking us over since the very beginning. And, you know, now they have to have labor, you know, child birth pangs. By the way, you mentioned blood feuds. Like, Athena really reminds me of the thing that you talk about in your honor book about women being the ones, like, that are goading on. Like, oh, you pussy-ass, Odysseus, I thought you were strong.

11:38I thought you were tough. And then just in a puff of, like, turns into a bird and flies away. I know. It's totally true. Like, you know, that was something that you see across a lot of honor cultures is the women are the ones who are charged with, like, insulting them to the point where they're just too blind with rage to worry about their own safety. You know, like, it's the commitment device kind of thing, you know? Right. They play a part in that. Also, I love just the trash talking, you know? I mean, the Iliad is the best example.

12:08It's just, like, there's, like, 12 rap battles in the Iliad. But, like, even here, just the way they insult each other and the way they try to use that for motivation or, in Odysseus' case, that he has to, like, keep it down. Yeah. Again, so much of this is, like, a testament to the self-control of Odysseus where, like, his self-control is required for his success here. And having not read the Iliad, I don't know, but it seems as if, like, the Iliad is more, yeah, you get angry and you fucking fight.

12:39And here it's, like, revenge needs this planning and this self-control and, like, he has to, like, suppress his instincts. And he even has, like, a, you know, this part where he's talking to himself in a way that I don't remember if he does in the other parts of the book, but it was just really stood out here where he's, like, telling himself to calm down. Yes, that's right. And, like, giving himself, like, remember when you were with the Cyclops? Yeah, exactly. And he was eating your men and you had to sit there and watch it happen until you figured out a plan. That's what I have to do now. No, it's a good contrast with the Iliad, too.

13:10You know, Iliad, the first word is, like, rage or, you know, it depends on the translation, but that's, like, it is about Achilles' rage. And it's also, there's a big act of revenge in the Iliad, but it is Achilles who does it. And Achilles is just, he's not a planner, you know? Right. He chases Hector down and then kills him. So that's just the difference in those two characters. Like, Odysseus is about self-control. He is about, almost to a fault at times. It seems in the Odyssey. People have had to prod him and say, okay, this doesn't need to be planned to death.

13:43It needs to be planned. But, like, it's also time to act. And Achilles is on the other side of that. Like, he could use a little bit more self-control. Right. So Achilles may not be wondering what the consequences will be after. That's right. Yeah. Although he has his own ambivalence, as we've seen even in this text, about what he's doing. But, yes, that's not the kind of thing that would deter him, is what's going to happen to me afterwards. He's not thinking three moves ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Should we? Oh, well, we could talk about this now.

14:15But just since he hasn't been brought up so much, Telemachus in these books is pretty interesting. And for the most part, in command, I think there's two really kind of key moments with him. Number one is when he just admits that he left the storeroom open during the battle. And, like, that's going to fuck them because now they have access to that room. But he just immediately just owns it, takes responsibility for it. And it's just, like, I think a really important moment to show that he's really matured over the course of this text that we've read.

14:53And then the other is when he's trying to string the bow himself. Yeah. I don't know what's going on there. Is it pretense? Like, because I got the sense that he was doing it to, like, encourage the beginning of the contest. He's like, all right, I'll do it. I'll try first. And then so that that would make the suitors be like, ha, ha, ha, you can't do it. Watch. Watch me. Yeah, I mean, I think you can read it a lot of different ways. But one of them is that was originally why he went into it. But then he got the bow in his hands and, like, the idea of stringing it in front of these fucking suitors who have been giving him shit since he was, like, 15 years old or whatever.

15:29Like, it's, like, too good to pass up. And Odysseus has to be like, no, I'm the one who strings the bow. You don't get to do it. Shicking his head. Yeah, and then he, like, snaps back out of it. You know, he's like, okay, that's fine. Or, you know, maybe he's, like, he's feeling a little competitive himself now. We've talked about some ambivalence that he might feel about Odysseus coming back. Right. Just as he's coming into his own as a man. Right. There's the part, too, where he tells off his mom that I don't know how to read it. Like, on the one hand, it sounds like he's trying to flex in, like, a rude way.

16:03But I couldn't tell. Again, like, I didn't want to read my current sensibilities into it. Like, is this, was this supposed to communicate that he's, like, taking charge of the household? Like, no, it's my job to do this, ma. Ma. I could do it, ma. I have the power, he says. Yeah, I have the power in this house. You know who, what, like, actual powerful people don't say? I have the power. But, like, it had, like, Alcinoas, you know, he was always trying to claim that he had the power when it was clear that Arete was running the show there. But, yeah, I think you could read that that way. It could also be part of the plan, at least as he understands it.

16:37He's done that a few times in the text. Like, this is, like, the third or fourth time, I think, that he's, like, amazed his mother by speaking very assertively towards her and telling her what to do. And Penelope always seems like, well, like, that's disrespectful. I don't like it. But at the same time, like, you know, I'm proud that he's taking a stand and he's growing up a little bit. So, you know, that's, I feel that way. Do you sometimes when your kid, like, stands up to you and even if you think they're totally wrong, you have to respect that they're sticking to their guns?

17:08That's just good parenting. Like, I remember just, like, the first few times that Bella, like, argued with me about something. And I was like, oh, she's so wrong. But, like, I kind of got to respect the, like, way she came at me. Yeah. And then often it's like, oh, she actually wasn't even wrong. Yeah, maybe.

17:28I don't remember those times. All right. You want to dive into it?

Omens and the uneasy night

17:34Yeah, let's do it. So it starts with him just lying on the untreated ox hide. Telemachus will give his mother shit for this, but this is part of the plan. And then I like the slave girls, the ones who had been sleeping with the suitors, just come out and they're giggling. And they're all just, like, so happy to be with the suitors. And this thing makes Odysseus so mad, like, that he almost loses it. More than maybe any other thing to this point.

18:04Even when people throw stools at him, there's something about, like, he wants to kill them right now. Yeah. This is maybe just me reading my own insecurities into it. But I would think that one of the things that would piss me off extra about it is, like, not only are these fucking suitors trying to, like, bed my wife and, like, convince her. They're also just fucking on the side. Like, they can't even, like, keep it in their pants while they're trying to woo my wife, you know. And these girls coming out giggling just reminds him of that, like, the shittiness of these suitors.

18:36Except that he wants to kill them right now. Them, I know. I feel like the women are catching strays in this. Yeah. I think from the text perspective, this is a deep betrayal. And one of the controversial translation things is that Emily Wilson calls them slaves, which they are. But in other texts, they've called them servant girls because they think slaves has a sort of different connotation than it had then, where it was just kind of part of the deal. But you might think they are slaves.

19:06Like, they don't have to be loyal to someone who's been gone for 20 years anymore. Yeah. But they're kind of also, you know, I mean, here they're giggling, so they're enjoying it. But the text does say, like, that some of them were being raped and stuff. And, like, you can imagine that they're at the whims of, like, the guys in the house. Yeah. That's a weird line that another translation controversy is you don't find the word rape in. And it's really what Odysseus says, right, when he's yelling at them. But you definitely get the sense that at least some of them are – it's quite consensual.

19:41Yeah. But if you take your view, which I think a lot of people do, yeah, right. They don't have the power here. So if some powerful man, one of whom might soon just own them because they are marrying Penelope, you know, yeah, of course you're going to sleep with them. Yeah. Maybe they were giggling at, like, a joke, you know, to try to cope with the rape they had just endured. Yeah, exactly.

20:03I like that he has to slap his heart here to get himself to calm down. It's like, you know, like, the heart here is really the – it's an internal battle within the heart. I know. It's like the metaphor of the mother dog and her little puppies. Yeah. So how does your theory about the early knowledge view fit with the part where Penelope is – Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So you caught that.

20:32Goddamn. You know, it's funny. I get surprised every time I read it. So I've been taking notes in the Kindle. And when I saw it this time, I was like, oh, fuck. What's – did I miss this? But then I go and I look in my hard copy where I've written all over it and I have that part circled. And the note is, don't love this. I think, look, there's a couple of things. So let's – like I said, the context. So she is just completely exhausted.

21:03She talked with Odysseus the previous, you know, night. I don't think she slept. Oh, no. I guess she had slept a little. But then she woke up and she's crying and sobbing. And she prays to Artemis to kill her. And then she talks about, like, I don't want to go away with one of these people. May the gods annihilate me just like them or may Artemis strike me dead with my gaze fixed upon Odysseus. Let me not make a lesser husband glad. And then she concludes, she says, but I am cursed with nightmares by some god. Last night a man was sleeping by me just like him when he marched off to war.

21:36My heart was cheered. It seemed a vision, not a dream. As she said this, the golden dawn arrived. Odysseus heard his wife weeping and became confused. He thought she was standing by his head and that she had already recognized him. So there's a lot of puzzling things. Like, I don't think it works great for, like, either view. It's just a weird scene. She seems to be confused about what's a dream and what was real. She was talking with Odysseus.

22:06And like I said, I'm convinced that she recognized him there. So there's two ways for me to respond to this. Number one, that, again, she is doing this publicly. This can be heard. So this is for, like, not just all the people in the house, but also, like, the gods. You know, like, I think the idea that Athena shouldn't know about this is, I don't think it's necessary, but I think it's plausible. That said, she's also really upset.

22:38Like, so this isn't just, like, her, like, part of her plan to fool the gods and fool all the people in her house. And I think that's partly because she doesn't know if it's going to work. Like, and she doesn't know, like, you know, like, he hasn't, she hasn't seen Odysseus for 20 years. And now he shows up. She doesn't know if he's up to what has to happen, like, if he's going to be able to pull it off. And also what kind of a man he is right now. So I think what she is also saying is she's cursing the fact that this has to come to a resolution without knowing what exactly she's getting.

23:11Yeah. Because if he dies in this fight, she probably will have to marry a suitor, you know? So, yeah. And then Odysseus became confused. He thought she was standing by his head and that she had already recognized him. Like, is he referring to their conversation in book 19 that we devoted that whole episode to? Or is he saying, like, right now I feel like I'm, it's her and she recognizes me. And that's, like, I think you could read that a bunch of different ways. And I honestly don't even know what to make of it. I should have looked at some of the other translations.

23:42Yeah. I read it as when he, it says Odysseus heard his wife weeping and became confused. He thought that she was standing by his head. I read it as when he heard the weeping and he thought she was weeping right next to him. Yeah. Again, showingly, acoustics in this place. Exactly. There's no privacy. Right. I'm okay, I think, from our last discussion, thinking that the text itself might be confused about what's going on. Like, I'm okay thinking that some of the storytelling would have her knowing more and some would have her knowing less. And that that's what kind of makes it in.

24:14Yeah. I mean, I think you overplay. This isn't like a cobbled together text, even if it does come from a lot of different sources. Like, I don't know. I find it hard to believe that they don't have a view. Well, I mean, I know. Like, so I guess what I'm saying is that it might be intentional obscurity chosen by Homer based on, like, the various versions that he would have heard. Sure. Yeah. Who knows? And totally buy that there are versions where she does and versions where she doesn't. Yeah. But who knows? It is just interesting.

24:44Like, it's not at all obvious to me either way. I mean, there's other stuff that she does, though, in these three books where I think it doesn't totally make sense if you think she hasn't recognized them. Specifically right in the bow contest. Right. So we'll get to that.

Setting up the archery contest

25:00Yeah. And then we have this banquet with the suitors. Kebabs. Yeah. They're making kebabs. Yeah. And then you get Melanthias, who's just digging his own grave. Oh, God. He's the goat herd, of course. And he's already been insulting Odysseus and running to the suitors to protect him. Like, the biggest piece of shit. Sounds like such a little bitch. Yeah. Then the cow herd comes in, who is a good guy, Floetius.

25:33Yeah. And he immediately is nice to Odysseus. So, again, like, you know, the hospitality thing is, like, if you're nice to beggars, you're pretty much a good person in this text. And it's, like, kind of cool to see someone come in and immediately do this because you're just like, oh, that guy just saved his own life. He has no idea that he just saved his own life. I think it's interesting what he says. So, he says, good morning, sir. You are down on your luck. I hope things change for you. No God is more destructive, Zeus, than you. You are the father of humanity, but you do not take pity on our pain.

26:07My eyes are wet. My skin is damp with sweat, as I think of Odysseus. But it's interesting, like, this comes literally a couple pages after he just prayed to Zeus. And it just seems like it's okay. It's not blasphemous to just crap on Zeus for all the fates that befall people. I think this is, again, like this more common ancient view where you just, like, accept that good things and bad things come from God. And that both of those things mean that he's powerful. Yeah. And as long as they're told they're powerful, they're more or less happy.

26:39Yeah. And you can give them the right sacrifices. I love this line that he says, when God's spin threads of pain, even great kings are made to wander far and suffer greatly. This is the first thing he says when he's talking to Odysseus. And first of all, I just love the spin, God's spin threads of pain. But then he says, even great kings are made to wander far and suffer greatly just from looking at him. I did have a thought of, did he recognize Odysseus too? Because, you know, he was old enough.

27:11The suitors aren't old enough to have, like, known Odysseus since they were kids. But, like, does everybody recognize him who knew him well at the time? I don't think so because there's a reveal. But, like, what I think is genuinely happening that's not inconsistent with what you're saying is that this guy looks kind of like Odysseus. Yeah, that's been said explicitly a number of times. Yeah. And, like, first thing that comes to mind is, like, oh, man, you know, like these suitor things getting out of control. I walk in and I see this, like, guy, this foreigner. Who are you? Like, what country are you from? Holy shit.

27:41In my mind, this guy looks like Odysseus. Maybe Zeus has also kind of just inspired some sense, some feeling. And then he just is like, oh, Odysseus is on the mind. Like, oh, man, if my master were back. Yeah. Which is, as you say, it's very relieving that he says that. I totally agree. Like, I think it would be a huge stretch to say, like, this guy immediately knew it was Odysseus. There's something that would be kind of funny in a different, like, interpretation, which is Odysseus thinks that he's, like, fooling everyone with what this guy is, but everyone just knows that it's Odysseus.

28:13There was some movie where they were doing a parody of the Invisible Man, but he just was. He just thought it was invisible. Yeah. So he starts taking off. It feels like an old Ocean Elskett. Yeah. He takes off, like, the bandages around his head, and it's just, like, a guy there, but he thinks, and he's running around the pub, like, grabbing their darts and stuff. Yeah. I mean, after a lot of talk with the coward, who's just a completely new character. Totally new. And now, you know, they have, like, a long conversation, and then Telemachus brings Odysseus into the hall and actually kind of tells the suitors, like, leave him alone.

28:53Yeah. And I like what Antinous replies to this. He's, like, we must accept the threats Telemachus has made, annoying though they are. Zeus would not let us kill him, or else by now we could have stopped his speechifying in our banquet hall. So he's just kind of openly admitting that they wanted to kill him. That there's a plot to murder him, yeah. And that, you know, they can't do it. Like, Zeus isn't going to let it happen. Yeah. It's just, it's weird for suitors to be that open about that. Yeah.

29:24Hey, buddy, we wanted to kill you. It looks like that's not going to work out. So we'll listen to you. We've got to listen to you, even though you're an annoying, like, little twerp. So then they're, like, you know, they're actually being somewhat genial. They're giving him equal portions, which is kind of interesting. But then Athena steps in and makes a guy throw a... Like a foot, like an ox foot. Yeah, an ox foot. And again, Telemachus, like, stands up and says, like, if you had hit him, I would have killed you. Yeah. You're lucky your aim sucks balls.

29:55I used to be a child, but now I understand things, good and bad. Yeah. And, you know, some of this is bluster, I think. But some of it is, like, showing good maturity. I feel like it's a really nice depiction of someone who's coming into his own, but still has some childish qualities. Totally. When you're coming of age like that and you're trying to act like an adult, you have to go through some of the awkward things. Yeah. Sounding annoying when you're trying to sound mature.

30:26There's a fake it till you make it. Yeah, exactly. Like, it's very hard to not go through. Here's another one to your point about the raping. He says, like, when he says, I have to put up with all of this, and if you want to kill me, then kill me. It would be better to die than have to watch you suitors acting so horribly, abusing strangers, dragging the housegirls through my home, molesting them. So, like, that's another piece in favor of the view that this isn't totally voluntary on the part of the supposedly treacherous slave girls.

30:58Right. Or it could be that for some it is voluntary, for some it isn't. Yeah. And maybe you'd like to think that that's what, what's her name, the granny slave? Euryclia. Euryclia. Yeah, that she knows which ones. Exactly. Which ones were loyal and which ones weren't. Yeah. So then one of the suitors kind of backs down. And, like, famous last words. Well, it's obvious now. Odysseus is never going to come. Yeah. And so he says, come on, just tell your mom, like, to pick one of us. And then just, you can enjoy your dad's wealth.

31:29Your mom will come to another house. And this, like, was the right thing for him to say from Telemachus' point of view. He's like, yep, yeah, totally. Like, I'll tell you what. Like, we're going to do it. Let's get it going. Yeah. And then here's where Athena does her little horror movie.

Athena and the horrifying vision

31:43God, yeah. Can I read this? Yeah. So, Athena turned the suitors' minds. They laughed unstoppably. They cackled and they lost control of their own faces. Plates of meat began to drip with blood. Their eyes were full of tears and they began to wail in grief. The prophet Theoclymenus addressed them. What awful things happening to you? Your faces, heads, and bodies are wrapped up in night. Your screams are blazing out like fire. The ornate palace ceilings and the walls are spattered with your blood. The porch is full of ghosts, as is the courtyard. Ghosts descending into the dark of Erebus.

32:16The sun has vanished from the sky and gloomy mist is all around. Wow. Yeah. You know, it's interesting that you initially said that as a vision because the way it's described here, he's just describing what he's seeing in front of his eyes. But yeah, that's also a vision, you know, like when you actually see it. But I don't think the other people see it because they're laughing. Yeah. And they say that he's lost his mind. Right. So maybe they were prevented from seeing the thing that was going on.

32:46Again, it'd be super interesting to see how Nolan depicts this. And I think it all depends on how he's going to treat the gods in general. If you wanted to take it more metaphorically, you would say that these suitors are, you know, they're drunk and they're amped up and they've just been told that Penelope is going to choose a husband and like they're just losing it a little bit. And, you know, like with dripping with lust and like just general like lack of virtue for what they're doing. And he is seeing both their kind of moral rottenness, but then also their future.

33:20So you could see it like that or you could see it as their fates are melting. All of a sudden the meat is bleeding, you know, they're also crying, like they're wailing. And they're lost control of their faces is just such an eerie thing to say. Like what is going on with them? There's like distorted like faces. I didn't look this up, but like I got the sense in trying to read this that in some translations, it just says that not just the plates were dripping with blood, but in that

33:51part, it also says the walls are dripping with blood. I know it says it later, later here, but like that, the image of the house itself bleeding. Yeah. The house has been hurt. Yeah. It's like there's something and it's rotten that it's eight, you know, and it's just like internal bleeding within the house. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really good insight in terms of how to see the house as a character. Right. There is a part earlier that I hadn't seen said this way before, but Odysseus replies, I will swear it's all I'm not to you.

34:22I vow by Zeus and hospitality and by this hearth that while you're still here, you'll come back home. And it's like vowing by hospitality and vowing by the hearth is just another, like this household needs to be revived. And like you said earlier, it will be purified in a variety of ways. In a variety of ways. So then the prophet leaves after they say that he's losing his mind, which is rich, given that they lost control of their faces and they've just been wailing.

34:53Meanwhile, Penelope is just setting up her chair. I kind of wondered what you think of this. So it says, The beautiful Penelope had wisely set up her chair to face them and she listened to what each man was saying. They had killed numerous animals and made their banquet with laughter, but no dinner time could be less welcome than the one the mighty man and goddess would soon bring them in revenge because they started it and wronged him first. They started it. Yeah. I don't know. Like, it's just, I loved though, the image of Penelope, just like, you know, again, these

35:24suitors don't have any, any idea what's going on here. And she's like turned and is just sitting there staring at them. They probably don't even notice and is just taking it all in. Like she's gathering intel. I think she knows something's up and she wants to see it, which makes it all the more interesting that she doesn't get to see it, which we'll talk about, I guess, now as we go on to book 21. This is just the pacing of this is so great. Like, you know, you have this banquet, which is the last time they're really going to eat.

35:59And now you have the setting up of the archery contest and it's just building up at the perfect pace to this intense final climax. It's so well done. And you can see why this story structure wise has influenced almost everybody. Totally. Yeah. And then this sort of like, I don't know if you know anything about like what this test is like shooting through the axes. Like, was this a game people played? Like, is it known whether this, cause like she just mixed this up.

36:32Well, so there's a couple of things. Number one, I think the shooting through the axes is the cherry on top, but the main thing is stringing the bow. Stringing the bow. Which is like, yeah, this test of strength. It's so became a kind of a trope of like the sword and the stone. Yeah. Like, you know, who can do this?

Stringing the great bow

36:51Yeah.

Stringing the great bow

36:52And it really is just strength. And I think skill. Like, I mean, I don't know really what it takes to string a bow, but I could see like just having the strength of like lift, you know, pulling on the string and getting it fastened in this very small little place. That would take a lot of skill. Well, yeah. Yeah. A lot of bows, my understanding is, are incredibly, like, especially the way bows were made back then, incredibly difficult to pull back. And this is not even to pull it back, but just to string it, right? Yeah, yeah. But it is funny that Athena put a thought into, she's already had this idea.

37:24Like she said this already to Odysseus in book 19. But again, Athena is putting a thought directly into the mind of Penelope. Well, I don't know if she is in this case, because this is a thought she already had and has said that she was going to do. Well, I mean, it says Athena put a thought into her. I mean, you could disagree with it. Well, okay, fine. Like she put the thought in, in the same way that you might have a thought of something you were already going to do. She says at the end of book 19, she says, The day of doom is coming that will take me from the house of my Odysseus. I will arrange a contest with his axes.

37:57He would set them all in a row like ship props. From a distance, he shot an arrow through all 12 of them. I will assign this contest to the suitors. Whoever strings his bow most readily and shoots through all 12 axes will win me, and I will follow him. Like, this is what I thought was so, like, she is literally telling Odysseus, here's what I'm going to do. I know they can't do this. And so it's just weird that she says, I'm not disputing that in the text, but like, this is the thing that she has literally already said, you know, within the last 24 hours.

38:28She's trying to take credit for her ideas. That's how I read it, actually. This is Penelope's idea. This isn't your idea, Athena. But that, you know, Athena probably wants to think that it's her idea. Yeah. I do like that. It's like, oh, Odysseus used to do this trick shot where he would like, you know, so like, that's what I'm going to make him do. Yeah, exactly. And I think she knows, given how far from being able to do this any of the suitors are who try it, like, I've got to believe that this is something she thinks only Odysseus can do if he still can. Yeah.

38:58And in my head, knowing that this contest existed, I thought that at least a few of them would, like, get a shot off. Yeah. Like, you know. No, they can't assemble the bow, I think. Like, they can't even get to that step. I do like that we get the, like, the lore, the background of the bow, and that the bow was given to him by Iphitus. Yeah. Just as a sign of friendship. And so the bow represents this friendship with somebody who is linked explicitly to hospitality. Yeah. But then he died because he was killed by Heracles.

39:32Yeah. So he could take the horses, betraying hospitality and heedless about the watchful gods. So it's, like, both an act of hospitality, but then also a violation. But then one represents somebody who had been betrayed. Yeah. And then it's a beautiful moment here, I think, of Penelope just taking it out and realizing this is it. Like, it's now or never. And she's crying. I love the detail. Like, her muscular hand picks up the handle of the key and a hook of bronze, gold and bronze and well-wrought iron are the treasure.

40:04Yeah. She sat down on the floor to take it out, resting it on her lap and started sobbing and wailing as she saw her husband's bow. At last, she dried her eyes and in her arms picked up the curving bow and quiver, packed with many deadly arrows, and she went to meet her arrogant suitors. Yeah. Again, you might read this as, like, well, she's crying because she misses Odysseus. But as you say, you could interpret this as her crying as in, I don't know how this is going to go. Maybe, like, this bow will be the death of Odysseus.

40:35I mean, I think there's no way she wouldn't think that. You know, he's vastly outnumbered. She has no idea what kind of shape he's in, what kind of, like, mindset he's in, really. There's no way to know. Like, even if Odysseus wins the contest, it's not clear that he could kill all of those. Like, that's a feat, like, to kill all the suitors. Yeah. No, exactly. There's 114 of them or something. We learn just the random names of some of them. It's like a TV show that's set in a town, but you only, like, follow around, like, five or six characters, you know?

41:06Yeah. So then we get the contest, and she, with two slave girls by her side, she gives them this speech. She says, you keep on coming to this house to eat and drink, wasting the wealth of someone who's been away too long. Your motives are no secret. You want to marry me. I am the prize. I really do love Penelope. So I will set a contest. This great bow belonged to godlike King Odysseus. If anyone can grasp it in his hands and string it easily and shoot through all 12 axes, I will marry him and leave this beautiful, rich house so full of life, my lovely bridal home.

41:41I think I will remember it forever, even in my dreams. The house is full of life, you know? Yes, exactly. And that's the second time she's used that phrase, I will remember it forever, even in my dreams, which I really like. And she's done so much to postpone this moment. Whatever you think about recognition, like, that whole trick of, which is interesting, weaving and unweaving. It's like stringing a bow, but in this case it's weaving. All of that was done as a stalling technique, and it's a nice symmetry, like, her plan and his plan, which is actually her plan.

42:17And she came up with it, but both involved this kind of stringing. Listen, Tamler, all praise is due to Athena. Yeah, you seem like you're a little worried. I'm team Athena here. Can you hear me? Show up as mentor. I hope she shows up as a girl to me. So, you know, one of the things I was wondering, she tells Eumaeus to set it up, but in the end it's Telemachus who sets up the axes. He's the one who digs the trenches to, like, line up the axes. Yes, that's right.

42:48Yeah. Eumaeus brings the bow to Odysseus in that moment. And Antinous is like, he hoped he would be the first to string the bow and shoot through all the axes, but he would be the first to taste an arrow from the hands of great Odysseus, whom he had mocked, urging others on to do the same. They really don't worry about spoilers. No, they really don't. See? See? Even Homer knew it doesn't really matter. Yeah. Just the bow makes the cowherd cry, too. There's something about the bow also. Like, it must be this magnificent object that's even just lifting it.

43:21And if you remember Odysseus, you know, in his prime lifting the bow. Yeah. And, you know, we hear that it was this meaningful object to him and he didn't take it to war. He left it. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So Telemachus gives them a pep talk, but then says, let me try this. He says, if I succeed in stringing it and shooting all through, I will no longer mind if mother goes off with someone else and leaves me here. Success would prove me man enough to carry my father's arms. So it's part of the plan, sure, but then this is where he digs the trench to set them all up.

43:58And then he begins to try the bow and he's, you know, like trying to draw it back and he just can't three times, but he would have tried a fourth time. He was keen to keep on pulling, but Odysseus shook his head stopping him. Like, I think he just kind of got like, maybe he gave himself a pep talk about like success in this would prove me man enough to do this myself. So like, yeah, he has to be called off by Odysseus. Yeah. And it really is working as baiting the suitors to do it.

44:31Yeah. He's baiting them. But then if he had strung it, that wouldn't have been good for the plan. But he's young, you know. Yeah. And he could impress his dad. Yeah. Or he wants to replace his dad. Oh. Yeah. So then a couple of suitors try and don't even come close. So then Antinous, who's just talking shit without ever even trying it, he says, you cannot string the bow. So you're claiming that it'll take the life from proper men. You surely were not born for archery.

45:02The rest of us are actual warriors. We will soon string this bow. It's like warriors. Really? Are you? Like, in what sense? They're molesting a lot of girls every day. That's their claim to warrior-ness. Yeah. So then here's where Odysseus reveals himself to the cowherd and to Eumaeus, finally. And he tests them one more time and then says, like, I'll free you. I'll give you wife wealth if you stand by me here. And if you, like, lock this place.

45:34They cannot get out. Make it so that they cannot leave. They're trapped. And, like, it's beautiful when they actually, you know, when there is the reveal. They threw their arms around Odysseus and kissed his face and hugged him, overjoyed at seeing him. Are you going to, when you see me in Ithaca, are you going to throw your arms around me and kiss my face?

45:54Odysseus embraced them back and kissed them. They would have wept till sunset, but he stopped them. I love the, they would have wept till sunset. And just real loyal men that he can completely trust, I think, is something he needs to feel. And yeah. And then, as you said in the very beginning, like, the irony of these suitors, the problem with them has been they won't leave. They just stay in the house and just drain it of all its resources. And now they can't leave. Now their blood will make the house bleed.

46:27Yes. Meanwhile, they're still trying the bow contest. And Eurymachus, the first, I'd say, suitor who we know pretty well, an Ithacan, kind of one of the ringleaders along with Antinous. He tries and he can't. And he says, this is disastrous for all of us. He's like, I don't even mind so much about the marriage. What have you been doing all this time? There's lots of other women on Ithaca. But that we should have been proven so much weaker than King Odysseus, our deep humiliation will be well known for many years to come.

46:58And then Antinous says, no one should shoot a bow today. So he's not even doing it. Like, he never does it, Antinous. He's just unbelievable. He's just shameless. He's absolutely shameless. And he's just trying to stall one more, just one more time. Because now he's really worried. Like, he's not going to be able to do it. I felt the desperation growing as each of them is trying and nobody can do it. Yeah, and Antinous just calls it off, basically. And they go back to, or they try to go back to what they do best, which is to eat and drink.

47:29Yeah. But then Odysseus, as the beggar, wants to try it. And, of course, they're going to object to it. I think it's interesting, well, number one, that Penelope insists that Odysseus be allowed to try to string the bow. And she even says, and do you think that if this stranger's hands were strong enough to string the bow, he would take me away to marry him and live with him? Of course not. He does not even dream of such a thing. No need to spoil the feast by worrying about such things.

48:00There's no need of that. Another thing that I really don't know how you explain without her knowing that that's Odysseus, or at least is very likely Odysseus. But then Yuri Mankus, and I just stood the balls of this, he says, but if he does string it, he says, what if some rude person says those men are weak? They court a fighter's wife but cannot string his bow. Some random beggar has shown up and strung it easily and shot right through all the axes. They will talk like that and we will be humiliated. It's like, would they be wrong?

48:30It's so funny how Penelope replies. It's like, oh, now you're right about your dignity. Yeah, exactly. She has the perfect response to that. Yuri Mankus, people who waste the riches of a king have lost their dignity. Why fuss at this? Yeah. It's just like, you see that they're fundamentally like losers, ultimately, the suitors. You know, they're worried about being humiliated by like a random beggar. Like, what will people say? Well, like, if the shoe fits, you know, but they still bitch about it. They still cry about it.

49:01Yeah. Yeah, but then Telemachus is like, I get to decide who does the bow. Go to your room. I am the one with power in the house. I am the one with power. Which, again... Not like people say. Yeah, right. This is one of his more childish moments, I think. But she does leave. Then the swineherd, Eumaeus, carries the bow, and Telemachus says to give it to him. Eumaeus then goes to Eurycleia, tells, like, to lock all the doors and tie them fast and

49:34don't come in here for the next, like, couple hours. Deird. Which is so awesome. It's like, whatever you hear, do not come in. Yeah. Yeah, like you said, they're panicking as he starts trying to, like, holding the bow and turning it around. Like, this is so, like you said, cinematic. Or it's like, you can picture it so well in your mind. It's like, oh, he's axed the part. But look at how he's, the pitiful migrant fingers it. And then, of course, he does it as easily as an experienced musician stretches a sheep

50:09gut string around a liar's peg and makes it fast. Odysseus, with ease, strung the great bow. He plucked the string, which sang like a swallow song, a clear, sweet note. And now the suitors are just shitting themselves. Dude, I love that. Like, that it would make a little note, you know? Yes. It's like a little liar. And Zeus gives them a thunder rumble just to cement their fear. And he takes the bow.

Playtime is over

50:37Yeah. Right through all the ax heads and out the other side. I am still strong despite their jibes about my weakness. Though it is daytime, it is time to feast. And later we can celebrate with music the joyful part of dinner. With his eyebrows he signaled and his son strapped on his sword, picked up his spear, stood beside his chair next to his father, his bronze weapons flashing. So awesome. Again, talk about pacing. Like, oh my God. Yeah. And then he just takes off all his rags.

51:08He's not a beggar anymore. In all his glory. Yep. And he has a quiver full of arrows. And the first one to get it is Antinous. Playtime is over. What a fucking line. It's like straight out of an action movie. It's like Arnold Schwarzenegger line. Exactly. Playtime's over. He aimed his deadly arrow at Antinous. The young man sat there just about to lift his golden goblet, swirling wine around, ready to drink. He had no thought of death, which is a fucking creepy thing. How could he?

51:38Who would think a single man among so many banqueters would dare to risk dark death, however strong he was? Odysseus aimed at his throat, then shot. The point pierced all the way through his soft neck. He flopped down on the side, and his cup slipped out of his hand. A double pipe of blood gushed from his nostrils. His foot twitched and knocked the table down. Food scattered on the ground. The bread and roasted meat were soiled with blood. Yeah, and this just starts an uproar. But that's such a, like, a good... Incredible, dude. Twitching? Yeah. Like, oh my God. You see it.

52:09And we're not gonna, like, we can't read every description here. But, like, have fun with this, readers. You're gonna love this. Exactly. You're gonna love this. Exactly. And they just start fucking, you know, kicking ass and taking names. Yeah. Getting the weapons. Bronze helmets, bushy horsehair plumes. I like that he said you've... And I don't know, this could be a translation thing. You flirted with my wife while I'm still alive? Like... I don't know, flirting is the word I would choose. I thought the same thing.

52:41I saw you flirt. Yeah, and then Eurymachus, of course, tries to, like, talk his way out of it. And offers restitution and all that. And the price of 20 oxen, all the gold. Odysseus isn't having it. And Eurymachus, at least to his credit, like, doesn't last long. But at least he fights. Yeah. Right. You want to go out not even knowing that death was coming for you. Just holding a goblet. Yeah. You mean, like, Antinous? I think I would rather go out like Eurymachus.

53:14Like, at least I, you know, stepped up. And I had no chance. And then Amphinimus, who was the nice suitor, attacked Odysseus. And this has already been told that this would happen. But Telemachus spears him. He was the one that was the best to him. He was always trying to save his life. And stop the suitors from trying to kill him. And he, Odysseus even had a nice exchange with him when he was a beggar. But still, you're part of it. You know, you get tented with the rest of them. I mean, yeah.

53:44And it says Odysseus drew his sharp sword, hoping he could force him to yield his place. So it sounds like he just wanted him to surrender. And then Telemachus comes in and just kills him from the back. He's not in the mood for fine distinctions. And, you know, like, he was part of it. Like, he was complicit entirely. I mean, that's the one thing you learn from this chapter is that, according to Odysseus, at least, nobody's hands are really clean. Yeah. And none of the suitor's. None of the suitor's hands. Yeah. Yeah. So there's just a great battle scene.

54:16Telemachus goes and gets weapons, which is good. But he leaves the door open, giving them access to weapons, which is bad. You want to talk about Athena's kind of, I don't know if you would call it, joining in, interfering.

Athena scolds Odysseus

54:30She certainly does a few things. But a lot of what she's doing is also just getting Odysseus to man up and finish the job here. Which is interesting. You wouldn't think that at this point Odysseus would need that. No. But she comes in as mentor. And, you know, there's a funny interaction where, like, Odysseus knows that it's Athena, but he's still, he's like, good to see you, mentor. Yeah, right. Remember our old friendship. Yeah. But I think he's saying that to Athena, too. Like, I've been good to you, Athena.

55:00And so remember that. And here's where she becomes enraged and scolds Odysseus. Where is your courage now? Now you're home at last. How can you flinch from being brave and using proper force against these suitors? So it's like, what is she complaining about here? So maybe his, like, reluctance, like the reluctance that he just showed to, what's his name? Amphenomus. Yeah. Maybe she caught that he was being, like, not the kind of bloodthirsty warrior that he needs to be in this moment.

55:30You know, I think it probably is a very different thing to be fighting on a battlefield in war versus slaughtering these hundred guys in your house. So she's, I feel like, trying to get him to, like, fuck all that noise. Like, kill them like you killed the Trojans. Yeah. And it's different. Like, that was ten years earlier. And he's always been struggling to get that warrior mindset, but not sure that he has it. And maybe even at the beginning. Who wouldn't go soft with, like, fucking Calypso on an island for ten years?

56:01But is it that, like, he asks for help? Like, that she's specifically mad about in addition to maybe being a little not cold-blooded enough with amphenomus? Oh, maybe. I hadn't thought of that because he yells out, so help me now. Yeah. In any case, she—and then it says, but she did not grant decisive victory. She kept on testing Odysseus' courage and his sons. And then she flew up like a swallow through the smoke and nestled in the rafters of the roof. Yeah. Then we start getting laundry lists of the people who are getting killed.

56:33Yeah. Yeah. But there's, like, an attempt to distinguish the ones who fought heroically. Yeah. You fooled. You loved insulting us. Now you have stopped your boasting. The gods have got the last word. They have won. This is a gift to pay you for that kick you gave Odysseus. That's the coward saying that. So they're getting their licks into and they're taunting. It is kind of just such a badass scene as, like, the four men are standing there with, like, however many hundred suitors. And, like, Odysseus has already rained his arrows down on a bunch of them.

57:07Yeah. You know, the other thing that this must have influenced is, you know, in The Incredibles where the family is finally together at the end and they're on that island and all the people are attacking them from all different sides. And there's this awesome moment. They're all back to back. Flex up and they really kick into action there. Right. You know, it all comes from this. This is, like, the original Fantastic Four. Yeah. And it says, like, you know, how do you feel about the fact that some of the suitors were missing is because Athena made their efforts fail?

57:38Yeah. Like, you know, that's the one way in which she actually does anything in the fight is a few times she seems to make spears not hit them. But, you know, they also could have missed anyway. Yeah. As is true through most of this book, like, you could read these as, like, the gods not really doing anything. Yeah. That it's, like, a metaphor for, like, adrenaline or you're a little nervous so you got the yips. They have the yips with their spears. They miss their – this is the clutches free throws ever.

58:12Maybe we're thinking about this wrong. Maybe that's what happens when people, like, can't hit a free throw, yeah, or, like, throw the ball to first base. Dude, I remember playing intramural basketball in college and being in one of the only moments that I remember, like, having the ball thrown to me down one and times running out. They threw the ball to me and I had to hit, like, a short mid-range jumper. Yeah. My knees buckled and I airballed. Oh, my God, yeah.

58:42Maybe that was Athena, you know. Yeah. You hadn't done enough sacrificing. So, the frightened suitors bolted through the hall like cattle roused and driven by a gadfly in springtime when the days are getting longer. As eagles with their crooked beaks and talons swoop from the hill and pounce on smaller birds that fly across the fields beneath the clouds, the victims have no help and no way out as their attackers slaughter them and men watch and enjoy the violence. That's kind of like us.

59:12We're like the men watching the- Enjoying the violence. Enjoying the violence from the eagles. So, these four fighters sprang and struck and drove the suitors in all directions. Screaming filled the hall. As skulls were cracked, the whole floor ran with blood. So, it's an awesome image. It's a great Homeric simile. So, they wrap up the killing. Like, I think that's sort of moving into the end of the battle. And they, you know, a few of them do try to beg for mercy. And most of them don't get it except for a couple of the people.

59:43Yeah, the houseboy and the bard. Yeah. On good grounds, it seems like. Yeah, and it's nice that Telemachus is sort of like acting as justly, you know. He's like, no, look, these people don't deserve it. For them, yeah. We can debate whether he acts justly for the slave women. Oh, man. Yeah, like the one interesting thing before that is the priest who he does not spare. And it's because. If, as you claim, you sacrificed for them, you must have often prayed here in my hall that I would not regain the joys of home and that my wife would marry you instead and bear you children.

1:00:20You will not escape, suffer, and die. Yeah. No real mercy here. And then Eurycleia just gets to decide which of the women. Which of the women were good and which were bad. Yeah. I can imagine maybe she played favorites there. There is this imagery, though, that I liked when he's scanning all around his home for any who might be still alive. Yeah, I love that image, too.

1:01:05And, again, like, it just brings to mind so many movies, you know, like I was thinking the old boy hallway scene at the end where all the guys are, like, gasping and, like, gasping. And you see some of them twitching. Yeah, twitching. Yeah. Kill Bill, too, right? Yes, exactly. The big fight scene in the volume one. Yes, totally. So, like, it's just so cool. Then the poor girls have to do all this work before they end up getting. Yeah, it's like digging your own grave before they put you in it. But I love the description of Odysseus when Eurycleia first sees him all smeared with blood.

1:01:40After a lion eats a grazing ox, its chest and jowls are thick with blood all over, a dreadful sight. Just so Odysseus had blood all over him from hands to feet. So you could just, again, just picture him right there. Naked fucking blood on his dick. Like he has just like. Yeah. But still has the sort of respect to say it's not pious gloating over men. Like, be glad, but don't gloat over it. All right. Do you want to talk, though, about what happens to the slave girls?

Telemachus and the severe punishment

1:02:13Yeah. So one of the most power, like to me, one of the most powerful images in this whole thing is there is one thing to kill men in battle, even when they're running cowardly. But then to like select the individual women who were unfaithful. And Telemachus insists, he says, I refuse to grant these girls a clean death since they poured down shame on me and mother when they lay beside the suitors. Damn. Yeah. And this is Telemachus deciding.

1:02:44Felt a little salty for me. Like, you know, as a teenage boy seeing these women running around with the suitors, like he might have felt some way. I think that it's also because they were the people who disrespected him in his eyes the most, who had no right to. Like, they were his slaves, too. You know, like he's Odysseus's son. And instead, they're like giggling with the suitors as the suitors are insulting him and mocking him. And like he felt completely impotent around them. He felt powerless. And so he goes a little overboard. So he says, he wound a piece of sailor's rope round the rotunda.

1:03:17It's like another stringing of the bow. Round the mighty pillar, stretched up so high no foot could touch the ground. As doves or thrushes spread their wings to fly home to their nests. But someone sets a trap. They crash into a net, a bitter bedtime. Just so the girls, their heads all in a row, were strung up with the noose around their necks to make their death an agony. They gasped, feet twitching for a while, but not for long. So, like, I think that's a worse death for them than what Odysseus had instructed him to do.

1:03:48So this is like him showing initiative, as it's described. Yeah. Yeah. He had some feelings about them, specifically. And then the men take Melanthus outside, cut off his nose and ears, and ripped away his genitals to feed raw to the dogs. Still full of rage, they chopped his hands and feet off. Then they washed their own and went back inside. Yeah. Melanthus, man. Man, what a way to go out. There's such a, like, he gets the worst and most shameful death and most painful.

1:04:19And, like, there must be something about that character that just embodies all the, like, worst qualities. He, like, chose to betray. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. He's weak. Like, he always, like, runs to the people with power at the moment. No loyalty. But he's also, like, insulting the worst. The worst of everything.

Ritual cleansing and final reunions

1:04:35And then it's after his death that the fire and sulfur, the cure for all evil things, the fumigation. Yeah. Fumigation purity, you know? They're like, let's make this house. Like, I'm sure they had to squeegee all the blood off of the floors. The girls did before, yeah. Yeah, and then smoke everything, ritually cleanse. Yeah, it's a ritual cleansing. And then the slaves, who had been the good ones, they all kiss Odysseus. He was seized by sweet desire to weep, and in his heart he knew them all.

1:05:07So nice. So sweet. So sweet. And now we're going to have the reunion between him and Penelope. Finally. Finally. And then we'll wrap up. She'll finally know that it was Odysseus. Yeah, exactly. Well, wait till you read this, because there's definitely someone in my position that's going to have some explaining to do. Good, good. All right. Well, great couple of books. Amazing. Join us next time on The Lotus Eaters. The Lotus Eater. The Lotus Eater. The Lotus Eater. The Lotus Eater.

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