Body Image Triggers: Where They Come From & How To Find Healing – In Session with Marc David

Introduction

0:01Welcome to the Psychology of Eating podcast, where food and body challenges are the doorway into a happier, healthier life. Now, here's your host, eating psychology expert and founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating, Mark David. Hi, everybody. I'm Mark David, founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating. We're in the Psychology of Eating podcast, and I'm with Jenny today. Welcome, Jenny.

0:36Hi, thanks for having me. Glad you're here. Glad we're doing this. And just for anybody tuning in to the podcast for the first time, Jenny and I are meeting for the first time, and we get to have a client coach session

Jenny's Goals

0:50together and see if we can do some good things. So, Jenny, if you could wave your magic wand and have whatever you wanted with food and body, what would that be for you? I think that I would love to have a more consistent relationship with my food in the sense that I could not have my stressors control my menu and just be able to have not my stress debunk my motivation so that I can keep eating clean because I really enjoy eating clean. I just realized that my triggers

1:24and my stressors obviously make me choose meals that aren't as wise. And I think for body-wise, I would just, I just want to be not as large so that I can be more comfortable in my clothes and my skin and just feel, just feel good, feel good in my clothes and feel good and not feel so heavy.

Weight Loss

1:48Okay. So I think I think I got that. So you want to be able to make food choices that work for you, that help take you where you want to go and not let things like stress or emotions just get in the way of making good choices for yourself. Yeah. And you want to live in the kind of body where you feel lighter and you feel better. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. So roughly how much weight would you like to lose? I think that I haven't been on a scale in a while. So I'm thinking if it was to be where I

2:25think it might be at, I think I would like to lose about 40 pounds. You'd like to lose 40 pounds. When was the last time you weighed 40 pounds less than you do now? Probably a decade ago when I got married on the beaches of Mexico. Okay. How old are you? I'm 41, 41. Do you have kids? I have two, two daughters, young daughters, six and eight. Six and eight. So in your opinion, why do you think

Childhood Experiences

2:56the weight came on? I think it was an accumulation of different events. So I quit smoking after I got married, which was a huge goal of mine and I was successful. So 17 pounds came on very easily from that. And, um, I think the shocker on how fast that happened probably like really, um, ignited my lack of trust with myself and my body. So I think it was kind of like, it was almost comical in the

3:28sense when it like happened. So I was like, okay, wow. You know, but I was still at a weight where I didn't, um, obviously bothered me a little bit, but it wasn't, um, it wasn't horrific. I didn't feel horrific, you know? And, um, but still I was pushing 170 pounds probably at that point. And then I had got pregnant and I gained, I was probably a 204 pounds in my pregnancy. And, um, I remember my midwives and, you know, just being very skeptical of my weight. So it was like, again, like a, oh, wow.

3:59Like this is a really large amount. I dropped some after that pregnancy, uh, I got pregnant again, went back up, dropped some again. And then I think just life got really stressful and it started to kind of crawl back in again. And I also had like, um, sort of like a, I had a near death experience. I had a lopian tube that burst from an ectopic pregnancy. So I almost died and it kind of, um, just sparked like a new path for like awareness and enlightenment, like enlightenment, which was

4:32really great. But at the same time, I realized that I had like a lot of challenges and a lot of like, you know, inner child work and a lot of things to kind of like process through. So I think the processing, I love a lot of emotions and things that I had wounds that I'd had deep down that I was, you know, not dealing with, um, also added to the, probably the bad food choices and everything while trying to deal with those like emotions. And it probably kept me grounded and feeling safe. I think on some levels like that excess weight, you know, like a protection sort of thing.

Emotional Triggers

5:05Yeah. So I'm going to circle back to some of the things you just shared, but I want to ask a question. So the last time you weighed 40 pounds less was, you know, right around the time you got married before that, what was your experience with your weight and with food? Um, actually I just have to say like, you are so amazing because I think it was a random night that I had was a sleepless night

5:39and I had found you on the internet and was listening to, you know, one of your things. And it really made me dive into that. Some of those questions about what my experience was. I never really knew what my food story was. I don't think I had really dove into that. I had done a lot of work with my healing and, you know, every other aspect of my life. And I don't think I really realized a lot of my triggers from my childhood. So, um, I think I was a chubbier kid and just naturally was,

6:09I was told I was just naturally chubby, but I think some of the nicknames my family had given me was jumbo Jenny and they thought it was funny, you know, but you know, that stuff really sits with you. And, um, you know, my parents got divorced. I think I probably put on more weight after that. And I'm not sure if it was necessarily because maybe I was eating to feel better, or if that was just like our diet at the time with busy parents and busy lives, you know, um, our parents were hustling. And so I'm not really sure why weight had started to come on in elementary. And I remember

6:43seeing people's faces and how they looked at me then differently from getting chubbier. And I remember, you know, my dad making, uh, pancakes and being like, you don't need to eat the butter. Why are you eating a butter? Let's do a taste test to see if you, you know, really need the butter. And I remember feeling like I didn't put the food on the table. And am I really making these bad choices myself? Did I get here because of myself and my food choices at probably only around like

7:14eight years old. So, um, he was just trying to do the best he could at the time, probably cause he could see that I was getting, you know, a little bit chubbier, but, um, it really probably ignited a whole lack of mistrust within myself that's lasted a lifetime. And I remember doing cabbage soup diet with my step-mom. I was probably 11 or 12. And, uh, I think that stuff, I didn't realize how much it had affected me later on. So, um, I fluctuated in weight and probably in high school was really

7:49determined to lose a lot of my weight. And I did. And, um, you know, I stayed at a decent weight through my teens and my twenties, but it was never the skinniest. I felt comfortable and I felt good, but I think I didn't realize how much others perspective of my weight affected me. I had a girlfriend who set me up on a blind date one time and she told me, yeah, I told him, you know, you're really great girl, but you're not supermodel thin or anything. And I remember feeling,

8:21why is that significant? And I, at the time I felt really good about myself. So I feel like there was like a repeating pattern of me feeling okay, but then others telling me my weight was not okay. So I think that when I would hear that from others, it would, you know, like trigger a lot of lack of trust within myself and a lack of trust with my food. So I don't, I didn't even realize how much I didn't trust myself and how much for years I had so much guilt associated with all of my food and my

8:53eating. Just, I didn't recognize it. So. Thanks for sharing so honestly about that. And as difficult as it feels right now, you're in a good place. Yeah. And when I say that, what I mean is that you can see yourself like never before and see your journey like never before. And what I'm hearing from your journey is that from a young age, you got the message that Jenny,

9:29you're not okay. Yeah. Not okay. This has to do with your weight, but what we hear at that age is I'm not lovable. Yeah. I'm not acceptable. I'm not. There's something wrong with me. Yeah. And Oh, Oh, it's my weight. If my weight was different, then I'd be lovable because you're a mom and you know, this year, your kids want to be loved. They want to know when we're

9:59young, we want to know I am loved. I'm accepted. I am safe. Yeah. Because guess what? If I don't feel loved, then I don't feel safe. Absolutely. So part of it is that we're then driven to believe in part that, well, if I can lose weight, then I'm safe. Yeah. Because losing weight means I'm lovable and losing weight means I'm marriageable. Yeah. And that somebody is going to care about me

10:33because yeah, I know my parents kind of love me, but, but, but, but, but on some level, they kind of didn't exactly. It was conditional. Yeah. It felt that way, even though I know it wasn't their intention. Yes. Yes. So like you say, big people, parents, we all do the best that we can find out later on as a parent, I could have done this better, better. Um, I know that happened to me

Self Love

11:01and you know, here's, what's so fascinating about life is that we're given the message at a young age. You're not lovable because of your weight. And it's easy for us to take that message and internalize it. Yep. So technically I'm going to guess nobody in your life is telling you, Jenny, we're not going to love you until you lose weight. Technically. No.

11:31Daughters are not saying that. Does your husband say that? No, no. So nobody's telling you that you're unlovable because you're a weight except for me, one person. Myself. Bingo. Yeah. So in so many ways, that's where the action is. Here's the paradox. Here's the paradox. You wish to lose weight. I'm not going to call that wish in its purest form. It's a preference. Yeah. It's a preference.

12:06Mm-hmm. I prefer a lot of black clothes these days. Yeah. I prefer soft cotton shirts because they make me feel good. I prefer a certain kind of food. I prefer a certain kind of climate. Mm-hmm. I prefer to be by the ocean, even though I'm not. So we have our preferences and our preferences are completely fine and completely legitimate. Mm-hmm. However, you don't say to yourself, well, you know, I prefer to wear a certain kind of clothes, you know, a certain color, but if I don't

12:37have that color, therefore, I'm not lovable. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I think what's happening right now is that there's a part of you that wishes to have a different weight and shape. Mm-hmm. And there's a part of you that's driving that desire for weight loss that's little Jenny. Yeah. That's six, seven, eight, nine, 10-year-old Jenny. Yeah. I'm not going to be lovable. And if I

13:09can do this, okay, yeah, yeah, I'll feel lighter for sure. Yeah. But the reality is there are people that weigh plenty more than you do. Mm-hmm. And they're light. Yeah. Meaning I don't feel heavy. There's people who are far thinner than you and me. Yeah. They're heavy. Mm-hmm. So there's a piece, a piece of lightness that's a feeling. Yeah. Because if I'm not liking who I am or where I'm at for any reason, I'm going to feel heavy. I'm going to feel more down, more depressed. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

13:45Yes. And yes, there's a certain truth that if you weigh less, you can, not guarantee, but you can literally feel lighter. Yeah. So I just, I mentioned that because I want you to be clearer and clearer about what losing weight really means for you. Mm-hmm. And I think there's a part of you that is still

14:16getting current with, I'm lovable as I am. Yes. You don't fully believe that? No, I'm working on it. Yes. So that I think is where the real action is. If here's the challenge, if you make your lovability, your Jenny's lovability to Jenny, I will love myself when I lose weight. If you make your lovability of yourself conditional on that, wowzer, that's a lot of pressure. Mm-hmm.

14:51That's the same pressure you had when you were a kid. How do I do this? Okay. Cabbage soup diet. Okay. Yeah. What am I going to do? I'm going to do it. Because our core value is to be loved. Yeah. So, so here we are. Yeah. And I find, um, even when I get to a place where I think that I feel good and I am good, you know, um, we recently, we went to Mexico in the fall and

15:30it was, I had to buy a larger bathing suit. It was the whole thing. And, you know, I had stopped yo-yo dieting because I was doing that after my second pregnancy, which got me probably even worse than where I was. And I realized that was a horrible decision. So I wasn't going to make the decision that we are going to Mexico and I must lose, you know, 15 or 20 pounds before we go. And I said, my goal before I go to Mexico is just to fully accept my body before I get there so that I can feel good regardless of the way that I'm at. And I did great. I remember being in a bathing

16:04suit and walking around with confidence and feeling really awesome. And I, you know, I felt good for you, you know, like you will shed the weight when you feel the love for yourself. And I ultimately know that and I would feel great, but often what derails me is seeing a picture of myself. And then all of a sudden I see basically like fat Jenny, it's not what I see in the mirror. So what I see in the mirror on a

16:34daily basis is decent. It's like acceptable. And I can love that. And then I feel like when I get like a third party's perspective in like a photo or something, I'm shocked at what I look like. It has like no resemblance to what I see in the mirror. And so when I see that, I feel then it derails my journey and probably like my false sense of self-love deteriorates a little bit at that time. And then I repeat this pattern of probably then making bad choices and, you know, not doing so well.

17:09So my motivation and any success that I probably would have had at that time, then I kind of go backwards. And I've seen that happen repeatedly. So it is a pattern that I have there. I'm so glad that you noticed that pattern. So something triggers you to not feel good about yourself. And everybody has different triggers for that. Yeah. Particularly when it comes to weight, it could be looking at some other picture of another person on social media that we think is hotter

17:41than us. Whatever the trigger is. So your trigger is, I see a photo of me and that takes me to the bad place. That takes me to the place called, oh my God, this is terrible. And in that moment, when we feel terrible about ourselves, we go to the, believe it or not, the best place we know how to go to, to soothe the feelings called, I don't love myself. Weirdly enough is with food. Yeah. So what happens when we're young is that we get a major mixed message. You got a major mixed

18:20message. On the one hand, you get the message from the time you arrive on planet earth that food is good because it is, it is. There was, it's, there was a point in your life where food was good. Yeah. There was a point in your life when you were getting the bottle or the breast and this is good. And there was a point in your life. It was all good because it tastes good. And when it tastes good, it feels good. And you feel great. So food is good. Yeah. But then we start to get the message. Oh no, wait a second. Food is not good because food is the stuff that makes you fat. And fat is

18:54the stuff that makes you unlovable and unacceptable to everybody. So, but food is the thing that makes me feel good that I turn to when my emotions are down. So it's, it's a, it's, it's an interesting conundrum. And I think on a very practical level, you know, what triggers you. Yeah. And here's what I would consider practicing. I'm going to make some suggestions and, and you see what

19:31sounds interesting to you. One suggestion is to create an experience where you're going to look at pictures of yourself. Like, you know, you're going to do this and you just put on some nice music in the background, light a candle. And if you have a good friend who can be there with you, or if your husband is the kind of person who can be supportive of that, or if you just need to do it

20:04by yourself and you're going to look at pictures of you and notice what comes up. Mm-hmm. I feel like crying already. Yeah. But yeah. And see if you can be with that. See if you can be with yourself. I love that. Yeah. And just keep being with yourself because if one of your little girls is upset and she's crying, you're not going to just throw her into a room and say, get over it, you're going to be with her. You're going to be with her and you're going to love her

20:39through her sadness. You're going to love her through her crying. You're going to love her until she's able to calm down and be present with you. Absolutely. Yes. So this is you learning how to remother yourself, how to reparent yourself, because the person that's crying, when you see those pictures, I'm going to suggest is little Jenny. Yeah, totally. She'd cry because this sucks. I'm not lovable. I'm not lovable because of this. Like, that's terrible. Yeah. That's terrible for a

21:17child. So there was probably a lot of tears that you couldn't cry back then that you can cry now. Yeah. And those tears are appropriate. They're real. They're right because they're inside you and they need to express themselves. And those tears, a lot of it is sadness, but there's something on the other side of that sadness. And part of it is being able to be present and be present and be present through the tears. Like I'm going to stand by myself. I'm going to love

21:53myself through this, even though it hurts, even though it's difficult, even though I'm crying, because what happens when we get triggered is we use the triggering event because it's so intense. Can't deal with it. Can't deal with looking at this picture. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to just go offline and a little unconscious and eat all the things I know I shouldn't eat, which is really saying, which is really saying I'm going to escape the uncomfortable feelings.

22:23Yeah. So I think you can do that and do that until do it a number of times, do it once a week, do it three times a week until you start to notice what's on the other side of that sadness. And if you look at it as if I'm mothering myself, what, what would, what would a good mother say to you? It's like, it's okay. I love you. Yeah. Like, I love you. I'm standing by you.

22:58I'm here for you. Yeah. Because there's a part of you that never got held in this whole craziness. Yeah. And the belief is, well, if I lose the weight, then it doesn't matter when I look at that picture, I'm going to be fine. Yeah. Because I already lost the weight. I win. Yeah. But there's no guarantee of that. Yes. So. Oddly enough, I think your path to ultimately getting where you want to go is

Letting Go

23:35letting go for now of the need to lose weight. Yes. You know, you want to lose it. That's your birthday wish. Make a wish. Blow out the candles. Yeah. The good Lord knows that you want to lose a bunch of weight. Yeah. You know it. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like since reading like both of your books or listening to one and reading the other, that was like a big aha moment for me. Like the

24:07releasing the guilt while eating. Like I had no idea that even while eating healthy meals and all the choices, I was flooded with guilt because it was okay. Well, you were doing this, but it's because it's healthy and it's because, you know, there was these messages that I didn't even know I was telling myself. I had, you know, 40 years of my life. I had no idea that I was doing that. And I could have swore to anybody that I wasn't until I had read and listened to you. And I said, wow, like I had

24:37noticed that I was doing that to myself. So I have been successful in releasing the guilt while eating, which is great. Not entirely, obviously, I'm sure there's still a lot of work there to do. And I've also been on the journey of trying to, you know, not put the pressure of having to lose weight. And it's within that too, though, that I see then my patterns circle around. It's like, okay, great. I'm doing good. And I'm feeling good. And, you know, I can see that I look better. And then, you know, then something derails me. So I get it consciously, but subconsciously, there's still

25:14work to do there, obviously, you know? Yes, it is work. And it's a practice. And the practice is really all about staying with myself. So when the trigger happens, whatever triggers you to go into, oh, this is terrible. This sucks. I can't deal with this. I can't look at me like that.

25:39That's where you need to stay with yourself. Yeah. That's where you need to stay in the light, where you need to stay in consciousness, where you need to stay in awareness, because that's the place where we will normally want to go into darkness, go into old habits, go into self punishment. Yeah. And the way to not go down that road is to do our best in the moment to breathe and to be with

26:10ourself and to stand by ourself. Yeah. So that's why I suggested deliberately and as a ritual. Yeah, sit down with these pictures. And yeah, it's, it will likely be an emotional experience for you. Yeah. And what a beautiful thing. Yeah. Because you're, you're learning how to embrace you. And again, there's nobody in this world who is telling you, Jenny, you are not acceptable because

26:44of this body. No, it would be the furthest thought from the mind of your girls. Like, yeah, they wouldn't even dream that. Yeah. So I just say that because it's good to notice like, oh, I've taken on that. I've taken on that voice. Yeah. Because kids are susceptible. And kids are vulnerable. And do take those things on. And as we become adults, it's, we have the capability to

27:18begin to let those go. Yeah. So the challenge is, we think losing weight is going to solve it. But it hasn't solved it for you. No. Repeatedly. So that's why we put weight loss on the back burner for now. And focus on getting to the root of what's going on, which is you learning to stand by yourself. And you learning to love yourself, even though I'm not approving of my picture right now,

27:55even though this is not my preference. Yeah. It's not your preference to look like that. That's fine. Yeah. But it's not a crime. And it doesn't mean you're unlovable. And that feels so light. Just you saying that, like, it's, you know, what a thought and what a belief to hold, you know, like, that just sounds so light and amazing, you know? Yes. Yes. And it's claiming your freedom.

28:28Yeah. That's what's going to help you feel lighter. That's what's going to help you do good things for yourself when it comes to food, because you don't have to react to your own self-attack and self-negative talk. Oh, I don't love that. I don't like that. I don't approve of that. I don't accept that. And then be afraid of the repercussions that follow because

28:59knowing they always do, you know? So there's a lot of fear that happens when, you know, like the triggers and the patterns set in. So I feel like with a little bit of love dissolves a little bit of the fear, you know? Yes, exactly. Yeah. It feels so, it feels so simple, you know, like I can see it and hear you and, you know, I hope that I can, you know, like work at that. But I do feel like,

29:38like, like the exercise of sitting with the pictures is something that definitely will trigger me to the nth degree. And I think I probably really need that, you know, because it's, I am, my daughters are six and eight and I avoid taking family pictures at all costs. And so it would be really nice to look at a photo of myself and not feel horrified or, you know, unlovable. So mm-hmm. You might even try one time to look at pictures of yourself and have your two girls there.

30:18Yeah. Pictures. Look at mommy in this picture. Doesn't mommy look pretty? Yeah. And see if you can see yourself through their eyes. Yeah. Yeah. My daughter loves my squishy tummy and I'm like, oh Christ, they're so cute, you know, at that age. And it's just really innocent and amazing. And I just wish that I could do that for myself too, you know? Well, you got help. You can, you can learn from them. You can

30:50just watch your innocence because that was you at a certain age. There was a certain age where you, you had not been taught by the world yet that fat equals bad, fat equals unlovability. Yeah. I tell you, I, when I got into this work at some point, I, I realized one time I heard somebody call my grandmother fat and I was shocked. And I just like, oh my God, like what a terrible insult you say

31:27that. And then I looked at my grandmother. And they're like, oh my God, technically like she's a big woman, but I never saw her as fat. There was so much love there. There was so much love. Yeah. Never saw her that way. And, and, and when we use the F word, like, oh, fat, she's fat, he's fat. There's a, there's a barb in there. There's a, there's a judgment in there. There's a shame in there. There's an attack in there to even say the word to ourself without hearing all of

32:01that. Yeah. So, you know, and, and I also think like one of the greatest things, if not the greatest things you can do to help your girls have a healthy relationship with food and body is to model it for them. Yes. And I think that that is one of my ultimate goals and perhaps that's where some of the pressure comes as well. I mean, I've had my older daughter throughout her years, you know, notice that my

32:36body's different than other moms, you know, and, you know, I've tried to explain, you know, we're all different shapes and sizes. We don't use the F word in our house or the S word. So nobody's fat or skinny. We don't talk about, you know, body shapes and sizes. We don't describe people that way, you know? And, but, you know, she, she has noticed, you know, how come at a very young age, how come, how come other moms are, you know, like what, I'm not sure which huge word she would have used at the time, but, you know, that aren't the same size as you mom, like how come you're bigger?

33:09And, um, I remember feeling really deflated going, shoot, you know, like I really want them to have a healthy relationship with, you know, health and their body and food and life. And I really want to be that example for them. And so I think that as I've tried and failed throughout the years, it's probably also added the pressure of going, Oh gosh, you know, like, please don't, or please succeed. Like, please don't fail. Like make sure that, you know, you're able to show them

33:39what health looks like. And, um, but I guess that starts with loving myself first. So. Yeah. Here's, here's the thing I want to say about that. You're already being successful. You're already being successful. You're not unsuccessful. You're being successful because you're working on yourself because you're aware, because you're doing your best to elevate and evolve your relationship with your body. So you don't have to be perfect. You just need to be

34:13moving towards the light. You just need to be moving into more awareness and more consciousness. And that's what you're doing. And that's where the gift is. And they're not going to necessarily see that they can't make that distinction, but they will feel it. Yeah. They will feel it. And that's, what's important because at the end of the day, no matter what, all the good things you do at home, they're going to go to school. They're going to get on social media. They're going to hear all the

34:46nonsense of the world. And it's the world that is teaching us to demean our own bodies. Yeah. And so they're going to need the tools to deal with that if they do need the tools to deal with that. And it's, it's hard to escape that. So here's mom and she works on herself and she's an aware woman and she's conscious doing her best. And that's, what's going to help them because they're going

35:16to need tools on their journeys. Cause there's always going to be something that making us not feel good about ourselves. Yeah. They can grow up with the perfect weight and the perfect shape and there'll be something else. Yeah. That's the challenge. And the tool is always, you know, using my challenge as an opportunity to grow. Yes. So all that to say is you haven't failed, you're not doing anything wrong and you can take the pressure off because you're a work in progress. Yeah. Just like everybody else.

35:48Which is what they need to learn about themselves in life too. So, you know, yeah, a lot of pressure on myself, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. So we're taking the pressure off you to be the perfect example to your daughters. We're taking the pressure off to lose weight so you can feel better about yourself. Some invisible committee in your head can feel better. So that's what we want

36:21to remove. That's the real thing you want to lose. Yeah. Yeah. You want to lose weight, but I need to lose the committee. I love that. Yes. At the very least, we want to decommission the committee. We want to want to take away their airtime. We want to take away their power. And if they want to babble every once in a while, you notice the voice. Yeah. Because those voices, I don't think they ever go away. I think what happens is we just downsize those voices.

36:53Yeah. So instead of letting it run the show, you just like, oh, there they are. Yeah. Kind of like meditation. I'm a really big meditator. So like the flip side of my other half is, you know, like meditating healed a lot of my anxiety that I had in life. You know, like I really love that. And it's just now I'm just realizing I can actually just take that and apply it to the other side of me with weight and everything too, because it's not about meditating. Isn't about not thinking, you know, it's just about, you know, like releasing your thoughts and not holding on to

37:25them. And, um, it's kind of like a really aha moment right now that I can do that with myself consciously in my everyday life, just with like food and the messages that I'm telling myself. So that's the best benefit, I think of meditation, because it's a form of training your mind. Yeah. And what happens is the mind has habitual thoughts. It has habitual beliefs, meaning you wake up in the morning and your mind thinks the same thoughts it's been thinking since you were a kid.

37:59Yeah. I'm too fat. I'm not lovable. I got to lose this weight, whatever else. It's repetitive and it's 80%, 85% negative. It's just natural for everyone's brains to be like that, you know? Yes. The brain does that. And it's our mind and the mind is like a tool and you can learn how to use the tool better. So, Oh, those thoughts can come up and I could notice them and I can let them go. Yeah. And it's a practice like anything else you, the, the, the more you play at it,

38:32the more you practice, the better you get, you're not gonna be perfect at it. No. And that's okay. Like I've realized that I'm significant changes that meditation has made in my life, which is like huge, you know? Um, it's just amazing that I never thought of applying that mindset to food and body. Mm-hmm. So I want to ask you a question and this is more personal and feel free to not answer it. I,

Near Death Experience

39:02I am like super intrigued by near death experiences. I've had my own, which are like different from others that I've heard described, but I'm wondering if, if you can say like, what, what was the most poignant thing or the most powerful thing about it that you learned from that near death experience, like coming back into life? Like what shifted for you? Um, I think the crazy thing about the actual

39:36day itself too, was the realization of, you know, I was told that my eyes were rolled in the back of my head and cause I was bleeding from the inside out. So I was basically losing all of my blood on the inside of my body. And, um, I was so conscious. I was so aware, like everything was so clear and I couldn't communicate to anybody around me or the paramedics, you know, and, um, or anybody in the hospital. But it was like, I had this like connection with like everyone's like brain, everything was so clear. It was so

40:11aware. It was just this like amazing consciousness is the only thing I could really describe it. And so I think after that, I felt so blessed to have, you know, like a second lease on life. And it was like amazing. Um, and I think that some people take that feeling and they run with it and they really can, it can immediately spark them to do great things, you know, have courage and bravery in areas that they never had before. Um, for me, it was, um, there was also like a huge sense of guilt

40:44and shame that I'd followed it because I felt like, why am I not feeling that way? Why am I not being hugely successful now? I have this amazing second lease on life and why am I not, you know, like feeling that way, but it was again, now hindsight realizing that that sparked a journey to go more inward. So, um, all of that consciousness and awareness, I saw the world differently, like the trees, everything just, it was differently. It was like, you know, like being hit with an

41:15enlightenment stick. But then I realized that I'm not really enlightened right now, but I, you know, like through work and through, you know, like my amazing counselor, she said, you know, like enlightenment isn't a single event, it is a journey. And so, um, there's like the Unilome symbol, which it like kind of signifies, you know, like enlightenment at the top of it. And, um, the symbol itself kind of goes back and forth like this. And it's kind of about like the chaos of life of like, you know, the chaos and then bliss and chaos and bliss. And then ultimately maybe you get to like

41:49enlightenment and bliss up here. But, um, I had to really kind of come to terms with the fact that, you know, like life is messy and that's okay. And you can still be amazing, conscious and aware, and then it may really get messy. So like that back and forth of like imperfection. And I think from having that experience really allowed me to see that all much clearer. What a beautiful thing that that's your unique journey. And it sounds like you're learning how to let go of some of your

42:23perfectionism and some of your beliefs that it has to look like this. So come out of this experience and be this supercharged, powerful person who has no problems and no issues. And yeah, that's all extra weight that we don't need to carry. Yeah. When we let go of those kind of optional burdens. Yeah. You get lighter. And like, it's funny you say that. Cause it just makes me think that,

42:53oh yeah, I really think that I didn't even almost die properly. You know, like I didn't even do that well, you know, kind of, you know, entertaining that way, you know, that's so funny. Right. Well, Jenny, I think this has been a great conversation. I hope it was good for you and useful. Amazing. Yeah. I'm really appreciative of you and your wisdom. I just wanted to say too,

43:24that, uh, I wish the whole world could hear your voice. I just, I really do because I feel like you have such a wisdom and such a way of connecting with people in order to be able to, you know, see them. I think that, you know, like your wisdom and your knowledge that you have is one part of it, but the other part is, you know, you're kind of like an intuitive empath to people. Like, you know, like you can see right into, you know, like their souls and, um, it's a really unique gift that you

43:55have to matching your knowledge and your wisdom. So I just, um, any chance I get, I'm always, you know, Mark David, Mark David, cause I just feel like the whole world needs to hear your voice. And I'm really grateful that I've heard it. And I'm so appreciative that you have me on today too. Thank you so much, Jenny. I really appreciate the compliment and I appreciate spreading the word for sure. Thank you so much. It's been an honor. Thank you too. I appreciate it. And take care,

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