Episode 314 - Squeeze

Unearthing the Trixies demos

0:00Hello and welcome to SodaJerker on songwriting. It's Brian and Simon here with a special Trixie's edition of the podcast, for which we're joined by one of the most respected and influential British songwriting teams in history, Scotland.

0:30And what is Trixie's, we hear you ask? Well, it's Squeeze's fantastic new concept LP, centred around a fictional London nightclub and its various denizens. But it's a new album with a bit of a difference. It was originally written over half a century ago, when Glenn and Chris were barely out of short trousers, and their writing partnership was still in its infancy. That's right, Trixie's was conceived and composed back in 1974, and demoed in full on a borrowed Reevox reel-to-reel, barely a year after the two first met, when Glenn famously answered Chris's ad in a Blackheath shop window.

1:03As time went by and they ultimately found huge success with Squeeze, Trixie's became a fond but faded memory. However, when they revisited that original demo recording a couple of years ago, they realised they had unfinished business. As anyone who's heard the album will attest, the quality of these songs belies the relative inexperience of their composers. In fact, for our money, this is one of Squeeze's finest collections. And if you're familiar with their oeuvre, you'll know there's some pretty stiff competition, not just from vintage classics like East Side Story and Argy Bargy, but also 21st century offerings like Cradle to the Grave and The Knowledge.

1:35We were lucky enough to meet with Chris and Glenn a short while ago at the AO Arena in Manchester, where they were playing on tour. Madness was sound-checking at the time, so to escape the noise backstage, we decamped to Glenn's RV, which was parked nearby, and huddled around the mics in his dining booth for a nice little Trixie's-based chinwag. Very cosy. Just when you think you've experienced every possible interview location, Bri. I know, yeah. Along comes Tilbrook's Winnebago.

2:01Tilbrook's Winnebago? Sounds like a medical condition.

2:05Long-time Soda Jerker listeners will recall Glenn and Chris appeared separately on the show way back in 2014, episodes 55 and 56 respectively, so after you've heard this, why not revisit those conversations? Excellent idea. If you're new to Soda Jerker on songwriting, be sure to give us a follow wherever you get your pods, leave us a nice review and rating, and explore the rest of our ever-growing archive. Support the show at SodaJerker.com slash donate. Before we move on, we'd like to thank Sue for helping set this up, and Suzanne and Holly for their assistance on the day. We should also mention that the band will be performing across the UK during November and December this year,

2:39on their Tried, Tested and Trixies tour, with support from our two-time former guest, Billy Bragg. Head to squeezeofficial.com for dates and tickets. Right, here we are in rainy Manchester, talking Trixies with Squeeze's own Glenn Tilbrook and Chris Difford. What more can I say? Now there's just me and you. What more can I say? There's nothing to do.

3:10The cocktails have been shaken.

3:14The girls have all been taken. The dawn is slowly breaking.

3:25It's so, so continental. It's the underworld of the night. It's oh, so instrumental. I don't have to sing another line. Because Trixies is all right.

Writing songs at sixteen

3:38Glenn, Chris, thanks for joining us. It's good to be here. Yes, a pleasure. We're absolutely delighted to talk to you about Trixies. We think it's an amazing project. Thank you. It is indeed a gas. It is a gas. I'm sure you've heard this already, but it just blows our minds that these were like among the earliest songs that you wrote together. Are you sure this isn't an elaborate ruse?

4:00I mean, it would be an ideal elaborate ruse, but a bit too elaborate, actually, to dream up. You were saying having people hear the stuff that you wrote when you were 16 would be nightmarish. I'd be mortified. I think most creative people would never want anyone to hear the stuff they did when they were like teenagers. But you guys, I don't know, you hit the ground running. Well, we certainly did. When we first met, you know, we used to write all the time. There were no distractions, really. And something like Trixies, when that came along, it was a bit more advanced than the other songs we were writing.

4:31And we played it to our mates and they liked it, you know, but it wasn't something that we could completely devote ourselves to because of the chemistry of the band at that time didn't really have the scope for it. It was complicated and brilliant. And that's kind of what you hear now, I think. Can you put your finger on what led you to develop your writing skills at such a rate at that age? For me, you know, I spent my childhood learning how to play guitar and piano.

5:05It's a fairly rudimentary fashion for piano. But I was good at guitar. What I didn't know is I had a proper ear and I could just hear things. I didn't know for ages other people wouldn't necessarily be able to do that. So, you know, it was a gift and it was a gift that I really, really enjoyed. And when I met Chris, I'd been writing before and I'd written some good songs, I think, but, you know, two songs a year or something. And it just didn't flow. And as soon as we met, we just started writing and writing.

5:36It's quite amazing. And was the writing process kind of the classic process we've come to know with Chris passing the lyrics on to you? Yeah, from day one, that's how it was. Yeah, absolutely. And Trixies really wasn't written in its entirety, if you see what I mean. It wasn't like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight songs, you know, it was, they came over a course of a couple of months. So proud of it now when I listen to it. The other day we were at BMG, our record company, and they put on an evening for us and for invited guests like the record company.

6:10And they played it to everybody on these speakers and you could hear a pin drop. People were just listening in. And that was such a thrill. It was brilliant. Yeah. I've never had that before. Oh, wow.

Dusting off old recordings

6:21So what was it that led you to actually dust them off at this moment? Found a duster.

6:30In the name of Owen Biddle. Oh, right, yeah. No, I mean, they were always in the back of our mind, I think. They were always on the laptop or, you know, the proverbial cassette in the loft kind of thing. But, you know, we've always been doing other things. Like we recorded The Knowledge, which was a great album. And we'd be touring. There was never ever time to reflect on it, particularly. And then last year, we did. Yeah. I think also the songs, so much sound of their time. I think musically, I can trace every song and Trixie's to a group or a song or sometimes an arrangement.

7:07And the process of listening at that age, when I was 16, is everything just goes straight in and comes straight out. It doesn't do that anymore. Mm-hmm. To me, it's a much more thoughtful process. It's changed completely. Right. But that spontaneous sort of writing and regurgitating of things you've heard, I think is really fascinating to me now. And you actually had the full recording of all the songs. There was no kind of archaeology required to recover anything. We had everything except for the place called Mars, which we couldn't find anywhere.

7:41That was a hard one to get back. I knew how it went, but I had to figure it out. But, you know, the songs are pretty much, as you hear them, the arrangements, the difference being that we could actually play them now. Right. And it must have been emotional as well, just hearing them back after all this time. It was a kind of a transportive experience, that. Well, it was. Glenn played them on the piano at the very beginning of the album with just Owen and myself in the room. And to be reconnected with the songs and to ourselves as songwriters from a very early age on was emotional and still is.

8:17You know, we've been rehearsing them, trying to get them into the set. And you do, I find anyway, I do tap into that younger guy that used to do that and that kind of thing when there were no distractions from writing. One of the things some of our guests have said in the past is that their catalogue is almost like their younger selves leaving messages for their future selves, you know, and they start to kind of reinterpret the songs over time. Did you find things in Trixie's that were still kind of relevant to you now, or maybe you interpreted them in a new way?

8:48Hmm. Musically, there isn't much reinterpretation going on. Only on one song, Don't Go In The Dark, was a bit of a reinterpretation because the chord sequence was a bit rubbish. But the tune, the tune to it and the actual change that you hear between the verse and the chorus was the same. I just put different chords behind it this time. That's why it's so much of its time. It sounds like it was then, and we've just made it sound that way and we can play it that way now. Don't go out in the dark, oh baby, no, don't you go. Don't go out in the dark, oh baby, out there alone.

9:29Don't go out in the cold, oh baby, it might be. Don't go out in the dark, oh baby, you Trixie. What about with the lyrics? Have you tinkered with any lines or changed anything there? Very, very few. I mean, they're quite juvenile, really, in their breathing, I suppose, and some of the lines did need tweaking, but not very many. The story is still strong, I think.

10:04What would be the criteria for updating the line? Would you sort of recognise a certain kind of immaturity in it or dated kind of references or? Things are just a bit more PC now, aren't they? Right, okay. You know what I mean? Right. It's interesting, there was a programme where they showed youngsters one of Benny Hill's shows and they asked them to sort of say what they thought of it. And, you know, at the time it would have been what it was, but, you know, things have changed. Mm-hmm. And not to say the lyrics were Benny Hill at all, but I'm stretching the image.

10:39So, arrangement-wise, did you sort of have to adjust any of the stylistic aspects of the songs, or did you have those kind of from the very start as well? Most of the songs sound pretty much exactly the same, except we know how to arrange them now and how to play them. That's the big difference. It's, you know, when we were playing Trixie's part one and two, it was sort of almost chaotic because there's so many chords flying parts and we're struggling to keep up with that. And there's no arrangement, we're just all playing chords, hopefully, at the same time.

11:11Is it just a matter of technical ability then, really? Yeah. Yeah, so it was a pretty clear roadmap, that original recording. Yeah, I think so, yeah.

Musical influences and genres

11:19We love the guitar work on the tracks, by the way. Oh, thank you. Yeah, really, really nice. And it speaks to all kinds of stylistic moves as well. There's some sort of, like, modal type playing in there that has, like, flavours from other parts of the world. Yeah, on Trixie's part one, that solo. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was done when I did a vocal. I just had a guitar on, and that's what came out. Oh, so it wasn't, like, composed, it was just improvised. No, that was just about the only one that was improvised.

12:10And was there a specific inspiration for it being a musical, per se? And were you engaged with that form even back then? I think so, yeah. I mean, I was very interested in, you know, the backdrop of what musicals were. You know, I used to go to a record shop in Gerrard Street in London that only sold soundtracks, and I would buy them and listen to them and be absorbed by it, really. Because lyrically, it was very different from what was on the radio.

12:44And it's something that my parents liked. You know, there'd always be a black-and-white musical sort of showing in the background every now and again. So it was always something that was fascinating to me, that you could tell a story not just in three minutes, but you could tell it in 43 minutes. Yeah. I guess it was the era of the rock opera as well, kind of early 70s. Well, it was, yeah. Jesus Christ, Superstar, and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. I love a rock opera. Yeah. So, Glenn, you mentioned about how you could trace every song back to kind of what you were listening to. What kind of stuff were you listening to?

13:15Because it was a pretty heady time for pop and rock music, wasn't it? You know, I was listening to Wings. I was listening to John Lennon sometime in New York City. Trixie's part two is really Woman Is That. Right, okay. You know, it came from there. Yeah, I can hear that now you say it. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. You can hear it now, and it's pretty transparent, but that's how influences worked for me in those days. Sparks were a big influence on Why Don't You,

13:46and Roxy Music on Anything But Me. Yeah. Every track has a specific influence. You get the feeling. It's the only one. It's exactly the same as the way it was written. And it's just the feel went from being bluesy into, like, more Bill Withers, more sort of... Soulful, yeah. It just felt like it could go there, and it just opened up the song so much. Yeah, it's gorgeous, that song. It's got such a lightness of touch. It has. I mean, it's just one of the best songs you've written, I think. Yeah, it's lovely.

14:16You were saying the place we call Mars was very kind of hunky-dory era-esque, weren't you? Yeah, the chord pattern in the chorus is quite... Yes. And Quicksand, similar kind of... Yeah, that, and actually, the one I think was, in my mind, is The Man Who Sold the World, although it doesn't sound like it, but it has that sort of air about some of the changes. The solo is the cricket bat solo for me. I'm always walking around playing it on my left hand.

14:45It's just brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. Even the piano in it's got that kind of Rick Wakeman florid. Yeah, it does, isn't it? It's no coincidence. It's no coincidence.

15:20I think a lot of the songs were written at the piano. Is that right? Yeah. Most of the time I write on the piano. I'd say 85% I write on the piano. And, you know, my piano playing stopped getting any better when I was about 13, so I've always just worked with chords and bass lines with my left hand, so that's the great liberator for me to find different things that work that way, which I can't do on guitar. I see. So it wasn't like most musicals are generated at the piano, so I'll sit at the piano.

15:55No, I've got a piano, let's use it.

Vocals and character studies

15:59Do you recall how you decided which songs Chris would sing? Well, there were two songs that were written before Trixie's was conceived, in a way. Yeah. And I'd written them, and I guess they just fitted my voice, you know, down in the boots kind of voice. So It's Over must be one of those. Yeah, that was written a year before I met Glenn, and it was one of the early songs that I wrote. I'm so proud of it now. It's such a great song. I mean, I could say this, you know, when I met Chris, the scope of his vision,

16:30he had these amazing songs and came from a different part of the spectrum to me, as far as music was concerned. And the marriage of those two things is really something incredible for both of us, I think. Yeah. Got loads of atmosphere, that track, great vocal on it as well. Oh, thank you. Very wistful. Dare I say it, even seductive?

16:53Should we turn the microphones off and get a little closer? Yeah, I mean, it has that. And, you know, I've been working hard on that song just recently to make sure it stays that way, because it can drift. And I'm very proud of it. And the production that Glenn and Owen have done on all of the album, but those two tracks in particular, it's this sort of glue that puts the whole thing together, really. And I like the kind of synth backdrop to those tracks. Yeah. Yeah. The very 70s string sound.

17:26It's almost kind of Mellotron-like. Yeah. Well, and Mellotrons, yeah. I was trying to think, what's that Stones track I was thinking of? Fall to Cry, sorry. Fall to Cry, the strings on that. That's the sound. I asked her if she'd like to dance. I led her out into my arms. She looked me in the eyes and said, hey, soldier. What do you think will happen when this drink you've had's gone to your head?

17:59You want me and I said, it's over. So did you, at that age, have any experience of kind of like London nightlife and the sort of people who would inhabit that world? Or was it purely kind of an exercise in imagination? I think it was the imagination and wanting being in a place like that. It just sounded a great place to be in that kind of club.

18:31But to be honest, since the rebirth of the idea of the album, it's been more of an education now than it was then. I think writing when you're younger, speaking for myself, is that it would just be like a flow and you'd write, but it wouldn't question where you were going with it. It would just come and go, whether it was good, bad or indifferent. And now, after all these years, you can look back at it and go, okay, where did it come from? What is it about? And who are these people inhabiting these amazing songs? So that's become a hobby in a way to try and find out where it goes from here.

19:05Wow. Have you started to recognize some of those characters over time? People you'd sort of drawn in the songs somehow? There was a period when, around the Call for Cats album time, when we were kind of, we were spending some time in a local pub with some villains and some local, well, I mean, not big villains, but local villains and dodgy people around Deptford and stuff. And you did sort of get a bit of a whiff of what that might be like, but it wasn't somewhere where you particularly felt comfortable. But I enjoyed the free drinks.

19:36And the rest. And the rest, yeah. Yeah. So I think this, it's all just coming into focus, oddly. That kind of environment, it did find itself in, which song was it? Is it The Knack? Which is sort of set in a similar kind of backdrop. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Oh my God, yeah. Just something I picked up on. Tick. Thank you. I'm having that one. You could stick it on the end. And was it always supposed to be set in London? Because I think you said you were reading like kind of Damon Runyon stories and stuff, which is set in New York.

20:08Yeah. So you always had the idea to transpose that to London? I guess so, yeah. I mean, I'd just been rereading the Damon Runyon book. I got it in the car. And those stories could only be there in that time. But this club could be in London very easily. There was a time when I was looking at stories about Soho because it was gradually getting eaten away by development. And now it's kind of almost taken over. But the clubs and the pubs, you know, that were around in the 60s and 70s, the stories that come out of those places is just unique.

20:41So, yeah, it could definitely be there. Were there things kind of musically or lyrically looking back that you've sort of rediscovered and thought, wow, nice job, kid? As we've gone on through the record, we knew it was good. I don't know if I knew just how good it is until we finished doing it. And, you know, we re-recorded a couple of songs. We didn't get them right the first time. But that's the ability to analyze stuff that we had now that we didn't know. Yeah. Yeah. What was that line from Hell on Earth?

21:11I was in a two-way mirror. I play Spot the Killer. That's one of my favorite ones. It just conjures such a vivid image, that. Yeah, it does, doesn't it?

21:21The schizophrenia of it. Hell on Earth, baby.

21:27Hell on Earth, baby. The announcer's name is Eddie. He's always on the ready. For the man that gets stoned as he snows and chowls. Playing in the two-way mirror. I play Spot the Killer. If you don't wear a tie, then you're in and out. Hell on Earth, baby.

22:01Hell on Earth, baby. Tripsies is the last thing you say. Tripsies is one hell of a place. Tripsies. Was it sort of your domain, Chris, with the words, and you'd put those characters together? Or did you kind of both have a vision of what that world would be like and who would be coming in and out of it and that sort of thing? I would say the vision came from the lyrics, entirely inspired by what Chris had written and everything else followed that. As I said earlier, I think it's only really just coming to focus about the possibilities of it all because it now sounds so great and the story is fascinating to me.

22:41And I often jot down notes about it. And I've been going back through all my old files that I keep at home and discovered some of the original lyrics and some of the cast-offs from it. But there's still some things to be dug from it. So you think there's some further adventures yet in terms of what you might do with that? Possibly. I mean, it's something Glenn and I need to talk about when we're not touring or not rehearsing. You need fresh air around a project like that. You can't just do, oh, I've got this idea. You know, you've got to really focus on it and make it happen.

23:14But we've also got a new album that we've started to hatch. So there's so much looking forward. It's not just Tripsies. You know, there is a future outside of Tripsies and the band is so brilliant now that we can stretch it in so many different directions musically and lyrically. So there's lots to look forward to. Yeah. I think sort of imagining a setting and writing about the characters that enter that world is just a really good tip for songwriting in general, isn't it?

23:44Yeah, I think so. I think it's good for the mind to do that. The focusing is really important, I think. That's been your stock in trade since the start, really, hasn't it? Like stories, songs, characters? Yeah, well, growing up on a diet of bands and songwriters that told stories so brilliantly, the Beatles, obviously, the Kinks, the Who, Tommy, Quadrophenia. Those are albums that I adore. I love the thread that goes through it. And Pete Townsend, such an incredible visionary, you know, the things that he was seeing at his younger age have all come to fruition, it seems to me.

24:20And I'll tell you one other thing about something that really influenced me a lot about the way that Trixie's was recorded is that I think Christmas Before Last or something, I was driving, I was on a really long drive. I've got a car old enough to have a CD stacked there and I put all the Beatles albums in it and played them from beginning to end. And the thing that CD player does is give you the timings of the songs and they're all fucking two and a half minutes long. You don't go, oh, I feel short-changed. You go, no, that was just right.

24:51Yeah, they pack a lot in, don't they? Yeah. So I thought, you know, yeah, CDs really warped people's idea of what a song is. And I'll include ourselves in that. Everything got longer and bloated. And it was really one of the things I wanted to do for this record was to say, edit everything out that doesn't need to be there and just make it as short as possible. Yeah, I felt that because I sort of assumed when I sat down to listen to it for the first time, the songs might be sort of six or seven minutes and it'd be like this very long suite of stuff. But it's actually quite compact and economical, isn't it?

25:24Yeah. So you were encountering the words that Chris was providing to you and then stylistically making choices like, what more can I say? He's got that kind of quite jazzy, loose feel. Stevie Wonder, that's what that is. That's me learning to play you and I. Oh, I love that one. And going, oh, these chords, fucking amazing, you know, and making something of that. And something like Why Don't You, which has more of a kind of tango feel. Yeah, I just infatuated. The last one of those was Take Me.

25:56You know, I wrote four songs that were sort of like that and Take Me was the last one to move in. Right. We'd love a tango. I have to do another one.

26:06So that's just a natural response to the stimuli, essentially. That's what comes out. Yeah, exactly that. Yeah. Why don't you kiss me like they do on the screen? You know this is me. You don't know where I can stand up close or I won't bite at all. I never think that my love is wrong. I want your love because it's such a bore.

26:34She's like a baby in a cradle, a rock, a faster sleep. Her manner's at the table, a dirty in the cheek. But I want love and not a dinner to eat.

Owen Biddle and new records

26:48And Chris, you mentioned Owen Biddle's involvement earlier. He's been with you for a few years now, I think. And he played a big part in putting the whole thing together. Can you talk more about his involvement? Owen has been absolutely brilliant. As an outsider, an inside ear to what we're doing, he's very, very musical. I think he's the first person that's been in Squeeze that's actually been a fan of ours. Oh, right. And that's great.

27:21It's great for us. It's great for him. And his skill at arranging, I think outside the box, is really pivotal for how we approached the record and what he brought to the table was great. Yeah. He had some involvement with the order of the tracks, didn't he? I think. He's entirely responsible for the running order. Right. Oh. Yeah, that was a Trixie's part one and two. Well, where would you put those? But it didn't work. Opening up with those songs. But at the end, they sound like that's where they're meant to be. I didn't see it. I didn't see it at all.

27:53Yeah, it gives the ending like a kind of triumphant quality, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. He's like that character in Severance. He's a sort of innie-outie. Right.

28:04A great bass player as well. He's fantastic. Yeah, he's really great. So you mentioned that you were making a new album at the same time. Did recording Trixie's, did that sort of influence the new record in any way? I don't know. It was backwards and forwards going on there. Right. Again, the thing about length, you know, trying to keep all the new songs short as well. I think Squeeze is a band that's now big enough to accommodate lots of different influences without sounding like you're sort of going genre shopping or something. It's not like that.

28:34I think you can listen to stuff and really love it and go, well, we can do our version of that, then see how we run with it. And we've done that on the newer record. I mean, I'm so pleased with it. I could see how you would be re-energized by this experience and hearing where you were at as young people and how good you were back then. Yeah. And it prompts new stuff, doesn't it? It was inspiring to go backwards and forwards. It was inspiring to not feel that we were just working on our past because that would be a bit depressing, I think, if you felt that's all that was going to happen.

29:07So to work on both of them just made everything better. No, that's interesting because, you know, as joyous a listening experience as the album is, I can imagine, oh, it's old stuff, you know, and I think artists typically are most excited about the new stuff they're working on, aren't they? Yeah. But it's great to feel this excited about those songs. Now, I can't think of another time when we would have done that and it would have come out the way that it did. It's just the right time. And the story is so great. Do you have a sense of when we might hear the new original songs?

29:38Well, we're sort of stuck in record company world now, so I'm not complaining about that because it's been great. But I think a year or two, maybe, I don't know when it's going to finally come out. Yeah. Might have a new album ready by then. Well, there's that as well. Yeah. It's good to work with a lot of stuff in hand, though. I like that. And since you began writing together again after such a long time apart, I think you got back together for Cradle to the Grave around that time. Did you find once you started writing together again that there was maybe a little more overlap

30:10in the process rather than the kind of very specific divisional labor that there was in your sort of first phase? Yeah, we spent some time together in the same room, which was rare. And, you know, I think that's an inspirational thing to be able to stand in the same room and write with somebody because you never know what's going to come out. And Glenn's been very informative lyrically on particularly the knowledge, writing things that I wouldn't be able to write, I don't think. And that bodes well for the new album, too, you know, so I think it's a different relationship.

Songwriting tools and methods

30:44Glenn, are you still superstitious about only looking at the lyrics once you're sitting down at a keyboard or a guitar? Does that still happen? It's not a superstition, but I, yes, I don't like seeing them unless I'm ready to go. Right. Yeah. So about the new record that we've done, one of the songs which I'm really pleased with, the first one that I worked on, it took me two months to get it right. Not two months of every day, but two months of thinking about it. And I don't like spending that much time, but I did and it's worth it. And by the end of the album, I wrote two songs in 10 minutes, literally put the recorder on

31:20and it came out. That's how writing works. It is like a muscle. And by the time we're getting to the end of the recording of the new album, the songs that were coming out were just amazing, you know, really on fire, I felt. So who knows? Any new software or technology or tools that you might be using these days that you've picked up, which is helping to transform the process at all? The retractable pencil.

31:51You don't have a favorite songwriting app or something like that? No. I use a program called IA Writer. Oh yeah. I use that app. You use that? Yeah. It's very minimal, isn't it? It's completely minimal. So all you see on the screen are the words. Yeah. So you can't focus on anything else. And I think that's really important. It's a great tool. I use it every day. Ah, right. Okay. Wow. That's interesting. It's like a chalkboard, isn't it, really? Yeah. Just like a blank canvas, isn't it? Yeah. No distractions. No distractions. And they're a lovely company too.

32:23You can write to them and, you know, they write back and stuff. So yeah. Well, congrats on your latest triumph, gentlemen. Thank you. Thank you. It's an absolute pleasure for us to get to sit with you. It's lovely to sit with you guys too. Big fans. Oh, thank you. You met them all.

32:40We were probably listening to you guys at the age when you were doing Trixie.

32:45Full circle. This is a thrill for us, so thank you very much.

32:56Nobody is leaving, whisper in my ear, I love the feeling here. You get the feeling, you know you might be dreaming. Nobody is leaving, whisper in my ear, I love the feeling here.

33:26That was Chris Difford and Glenn Tilbrook of Squeeze talking to us about their excellent new concept album, Trixies. Bri, I have to say, the fact that those songs were written when they were 16 or 17 is just mind-boggling, isn't it? It really is. And what struck me was how they described that early period of writing together. You know, Glenn had already spent years playing guitar and piano and had this kind of natural ear for music. And then the moment he met Chris, they just started writing pretty much constantly. Yeah, that momentum, just writing and writing because there was no other distractions.

34:00It's just priceless, that, isn't it? It is, yeah. And it's interesting hearing Glenn talk about how different the process feels now compared to then as well. Yeah, I guess at that young age, influencers go straight in and straight back out again, almost instinctively. Whereas now he says the process is much more reflective and analytical. Yeah. I also love Chris describing the emotional experience of reconnecting with those songs decades later. Yeah, yeah. You know, sitting in a room and hearing them again, almost like meeting their younger selves. Yeah, it's such a lovely way of putting it, isn't it?

34:31And it was great to hear how that partnership still works in the classic squeeze fashion, with Chris bringing the lyrics and Glenn responding musically at the piano or the guitar. Yeah, I mean, from the very beginning, that division of labour just seemed to unlock something special between them, didn't it? Absolutely. And judging by Trixies and the new songs they hinted at, it sounds like that creative spark is still very much alive. Yeah, and that's clear from hearing them talk about their work with bassist Owen Biddle, who co-produced the record with Glenn. Yeah, having that meeting of their minds must be extra inspiring.

35:02Clearly, a Biddle goes a long way. So thanks again to Chris and Glenn for joining us. Trixies is available everywhere now. Cheers again to Sue, Holly and Suzanne, and we'll be back soon with another conversation about the art and craft of songwriting. See you next time. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

35:32Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.