Episode 322 - Brandon Flowers

Welcome Brandon Flowers

0:00Hello and welcome to Soda Jerker on Songwriting. It's Simon and Brian here. Sharing his creative process with us for episode 322 is an Ivan Novello winning American singer and songwriter best known as the dynamic frontman of world-conquering Las Vegas combo The Killers.

0:35We sat down with him at Universal's offices in London recently to get the lowdown on his new country-flavoured solo album Thrasher, recorded in Nashville with a whole host of Music City's Finest and produced by frequent collaborators Sean Everett and Jonathan Rado. We're very happy to welcome the excellent Brandon Flowers to the show. Brandon was born in 1981 in Henderson, Nevada. When he was eight, he and his family moved to Utah, settling in the small town of Nephi, where he lived until 16 before returning to Vegas to live with an auntie. Before music came a-calling, he was a keen golfer with ambitions to turn pro until his car was stolen with his

1:07clubs inside. The youngest of six siblings, Brandon credits his big brother Shane with hipping him to bands like U2, The Cure and The Smits. Shane also furnished him with a copy of The Car's Greatest Hits, which proved a seminal record for our guest, as did David Bowie's Hunky Dory. Meanwhile, his dad Terry was a huge country music fan, with Johnny Cash and Waylon Jennings, among others, providing the soundtrack on long family car journeys. And it's that influence in particular that's seeped into these new songs, isn't it? Very much so, yeah. After high school, Brandon started to pursue music more seriously and formed a synth-pop

1:41band called Blush Response with two of his work colleagues. In 2002, when his bandmates left for LA, Brandon answered an ad placed in the Las Vegas Weekly by guitarist Dave Kooning. The pair met, swiftly bonded over their shared love of Oasis, and duly co-wrote a little ditty by the name of Mr. Brightside. A short time later, they were joined by bassist Mark Stermer and drummer Ronnie Vannucci. Taking their name from a fictional band in a New Order video, The Killers played their first gig in the summer of 2002. Having shopped their demos around US record companies to no avail,

2:11they wound up signing to the English indie Lizard King the following year, and it was in England that they first began to generate considerable heat, with their early shows receiving glowing reviews in the music press, and Zane Lowe championing Mr. Brightside on Radio 1. I actually saw them around that time at a tiny venue in Liverpool. I think it must have been mid-2004. I think I remember that, yeah. Yeah, I was reviewing them for a local website and had no idea who they were, but I was blown away by how huge the sound was, and Brandon really owned the stage, you know, as he continues

2:41to do. Except now it's just a much, much bigger stage. Exactly. Aided by a relentless touring schedule and a clutch of strong singles, debut album Hot Fuss, released in the summer of 2004, did extremely well, reaching the UK top spot and the US top 10. A couple of decades on, The Killers are one of the biggest rock bands of the last quarter century, with sales in the region of 22 million records worldwide, and a total of seven chart-topping albums under their belt, such as 2006's Sam's Town, 2017's

3:12Wonderful Wonderful, and 2021's Pressure Machine. Brandon's other solo outings include 2010's Flamingo and 2015's The Desired Effect, both of which were British number ones, which is only fitting for an avowed anglophile. In fact, such is our guest's overall impact on the music industry here in Blighty, he received the Ivers Special International Award, from Bruce Springsteen no less, at last year's ceremony in London. If you're new to the Soda Jerker podcast, make sure you follow us on your favourite platform so you never miss an episode, and don't forget to leave a nice review and rating. Oh, and

3:43do check out our back catalogue of well over 300 songwriter interviews. Support the show at SodaJerker.com slash donate. Lastly, a big thank you to Flossie for her help setting up the interview, and everyone at Universal for their assistance on the day. Okay, it's time to talk Thrasher with a Killer. Here we are in conversation with the excellent brandon flowers. The pond is fed by July melted snow, that we watched fall from January windows in our

4:16homeroom class, teacher wondering how the hell they wound up here, so far from the plans they drew up years ago. Hey Brandon. Hi. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you.

Family roots and album title

4:32First of all, we have to say congrats on Thrasher, man. It's epic. Oh, thank you. Absolutely epic. What does that title, Thrasher, mean to you? Because when I was growing up, Thrasher was a reference to skateboarding. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm guessing you're not doing many kickflips in the studio, so. I did have a, I had a stint, a brief stint when I was eight years old into skateboarding. Remember Vision Streetwear? Yeah. Yeah, like that was like to have a pair of shorts from Vision Streetwear, that was like the climax of fashion. That's not why I named the album Thrasher, but it's in my periphery.

5:05Yeah. What was the reason for it? Oh, we're going all the way. In a nutshell. Man, it's kind of a long story. To thrash someone is to like win a fight. Yeah. Right. I thrashed them, you know, and you want me to get vulnerable on this thing? As much as you're comfortable with. When I moved to Utah when I was eight, my family moved from Las Vegas to Utah, and it was like country kids. And I was a little different. I was a little bit of an outlier. And I got into a couple scuffles. I did not come out victorious. And I just was having

5:40a hard time fitting in. And my dad, my dad grew up fighting and like, he came from a totally different kind of upbringing and he was born in the forties and, you know, from just a different era, you know. And I remember being in a truck with him. He had a 46 Chevy. Have you ever seen a MacGyver? Remember MacGyver? Yeah. So in the beginning of MacGyver, he had a 46 Chevy. That's always my reference for that beautiful Fenders and beautiful grill. But we would be driving and he would try to teach me how to fight and pass on this knowledge, which is a horrible idea to teach your child how to fight.

6:16And it was falling on deaf ears because I just wasn't going to fight. I just wasn't going to be a fighter. And he would talk about, you have to think about when you're going to throw your punches and you have to protect yourself this way. And I've noticed now that if you see the killer's live, I'm constantly shadow boxing. And there's something in me that wants to show him still that I'm a fighter. Right. And it's a little sad and a little bit beautiful. And so this record that I made, Thrasher, is a country record and that's my father's music. And on the album cover, I'm punching. And it's sort

6:52of all coming full circle for that. Yeah. Anyway, there we go. I need a psychiatrist. Yeah. You've described finding your way back to your father's taste in music, which I think he called country western. That's right. Both kinds. Yes. When did you first sense that these new songs wanted to live in that space rather than the killer's world? In 2021, we released Pressure Machine, the killer's last record. And it was country adjacent. It was Americana, basically. And it all took place in this rural town that I grew up in

7:23in Utah. I really wanted to narrow in and go even further. And it's more about my inner circle, I think, this record. And it felt just appropriate to be a solo record. And the vehicle just was country western. I just kind of knew that that was where it was going. Yeah. And then going to Nashville really just solidified it. And I think it was your dad who introduced you to artists like Waylon Jennings and Johnny Cash. Right. People like that. Yeah. Just the icons, you know. And he looked like, my dad had pork chop, you know, you call him that here? Yeah, yeah. Sideburns. Yeah, the pork chops. And my dad sort of looked like one of those guys in the

7:5570s. You know, the pictures of him that would be around. It was always the white t-shirt and the Marlboros and the cigarettes and pork chops. And so he sort of embodied a lot of those guys to me, I think. Yeah. Do you think listening to that music quietly taught you something about storytelling in songs? Oh, for sure. I think it's always been present in Killer's music. And I feel like it ties back to those early experiences and that education that I was getting from my dad's music. And I just thought, oh, it makes sense to tell a story in a song. I didn't realize where I

8:27had gotten that from.

Writing about real people

8:28Yeah. As far as we can tell, much of the album tells stories about friends and family in a sort of thinly veiled way. Yeah. How do you decide how much to disguise and how much to leave recognizable? I'll be pretty open about it because a lot of them I've okayed with the people that the songs are about. So there's really only one song that is sort of, I changed the name of the person, you know, Angel, but everything else I'm pretty open about. Because I think you've said in the past that you would sort of lurk in the shadows a little

8:59bit, but it feels like you're stepping forward on this one. I say I was always lurking, but now I'm, I'm, I'm in the kitchen, raiding the fridge and waking the neighbors. Is there something about these songs that demands that, do you think? Well, I think it's just giving myself permission to, to go where I'm going on this record. And I don't think that I was, it wasn't the right time earlier on in my career. And I also just didn't have the chops to do it. And this is the first time I felt like, okay, I can tell these stories and I can do them justice.

9:29It can be quite a big responsibility, can't it? Writing about real people. Yeah. Like, um, one of us I think is a tribute to your late brother-in-law. Yeah. I guess you have to take special care when you're writing a song like that. Yeah. Damn, I get emotional right away. Just say it. It's a beautiful song. Gosh dang. You got me. So, I have, um, four sisters and my oldest sister, she was almost 17 years older than me. And, you know, I'm LDS. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

10:02Somebody calls Mormons. We try to get away from that now, but it's a mouthful. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Anyway, growing up, my mom was a member and my dad wasn't. And so, you would have missionaries coming around. And it was a very common thing for them to come over for dinner. And, and I think that their main goal was to convert my father. And one of them ended up being this guy, Mike. He was from Alberta, Canada. And he was on his mission in Las Vegas, Nevada. And he's coming to my house to convert my father. But I have this sister that's there at the

10:34house. And this is sort of frowned upon, but he didn't convert my dad. But I say he did the next best thing is he came back and he married my sister, April. And so, since I was a little boy, he's been around. So, he would come over. They got married. I was probably eight or something, seven or eight when they got married. And so, he's basically my brother. Yeah. And I just, I love his family and I wanted to honor him with the song. And again, there's this thing that I keep bringing up when I'm talking about the record is one of my favorite things is how in country music,

11:05it feels like you can have this sadness and you can have this levity and this humor that exists together. Like people like John Prine were masters of that. And you really get that. It's kind of a bittersweet combination, isn't it? But it's one of the lovely things about that music. Yeah. Really great. You were always one of us. Boy, there ain't a thing to discuss. Miss you like the rain. Miss the bus. Roll sign, read. Some place, bluebirds sing. And that about just sums it up. Life and but a dream is a bitter cup. Nothing stays the same. It'll make you cry.

11:39It'll make you cuss. You were always one of us.

11:45So, you're sole creditor as the writer of all of these songs on Thrasher. Mm-hmm. So, does the writing change when you know you're not going to be bringing songs to the killers? Not so much. It's just that I know it's just, you know, what the aim is. And I know that nobody else is going to get their hands on it. And for better or for worse, like this was going to be a singular thing. Yeah. And you like typically to write at the piano, I think. Yeah. Did this material maybe require a slightly different approach? Was it maybe more guitar-based, the writing process? No, it was all piano.

12:16Right. Yeah. I have a Yamaha. Elton John gave it to me. Oh. Sorry. Demands to be written up. It's kind of wild. It's kind of a special thing because I took piano lessons as a kid and we had an upright piano. I was all into keyboards. And I never had any intent of buying a piano. I just thought, I'm into killers and I'm going to play some synths and Dave's going to play some guitar and, you know, and then Elton sent a piano to the house, which

12:46is wild, you know, but it's like, it blessed my life. I have a son now that plays classical music and it fills our house and I have something to do when the kids are at school and it's become my workstation, you know, and it's just like, what an amazing thing. Yeah. Cause I think you've said in the past, you had this sort of dedicated writing room, but you didn't necessarily use it that much. Yeah. I don't know. It's just become this room, this, this, this piano room.

Recording in Nashville

13:09Yeah. So the album opens with Does It Ever Cross Your Mind, which is about how we sort of randomly end up with the people that we end up with. Where did that one start? Was it that concept at first or was it just a line or a melody? It's funny. It comes from a line from another song. Okay. So on Pressure Machine, there's a song called In Another Life. This man is kind of wondering what he would have been in another life. And he asked his wife, am I the man of your desire or just a guy from your hometown? And it was like, I knew that was a good line, but I didn't

13:41know it was going to be such a thought provoker for the fans. I'm guilty of like cruising the comments on YouTube. That way modernist lies. Yeah. And so I'm cruising and I noticed that line like comes up a lot. And it's always like, oh man, this is like making me look at my companion in a different way and wondering. And then at one point, a guy says it led to my divorce. And I was like, oh my gosh, I did not intend for this. And I wanted to make it right. And so does it ever cross your mind is the antithesis sort of. It's

14:16like, how amazing is it that in this giant universe, you wound up next to this person that you go through life with, you know? So that's what spawned that song. Yeah. It was the first thing we heard from the record, wasn't it? Yeah. And it was just really striking to hear this whole soundscape with all the bells and all that. You recorded the whole album live at RCA Studio A? Yeah. Yeah. In Nashville. Yeah. Another one about that song is there's a couple of country songs I'm referencing on that song. And I was looking up the songs and both of them were recorded in the same room.

14:48So much history in that room. Was it just a case of sort of putting down live takes until you got the one? Hmm. Yes. And another amazing thing about Nashville musicians, which you guys are probably aware of this, but they're just so competent. It's almost annoying. And so we never played a song more than five times. And, you know, third or fourth take was always kind of a sweet spot. And I haven't done that since Sam's Town. So it's been about, you know, 19 years or whatever since I had recorded with the band like that. And just for an example, I remember there's a song called This River is Wild

15:20on Sam's Town. And what you were hearing is take 76 was the magic number, you know, and I bet 30 was fine or maybe even two, but that's just how they do it there. They get it done and you move on. Of all the corners of the universe. We wind up hand in hand. Picking up the slack in each other's lives. Right here where

15:52we stand. Some may call it a coincidence. But I prefer design. I guess what I've been wondering is does it ever cross your mind? Does this project in that place with those people put certain demands on you as a performer? Yeah, I felt like I needed to raise my game. I genuinely was ignorant about the scene and what

16:25goes on there. And the producers were adamant that we went to Nashville, but I was, I didn't understand exactly why. And so I went in and I felt confident about the songs that I had, but I just didn't know what I was getting into. These guys are, it was incredible. I was just humbled right away. And it made me realize it's not enough that I have these right now. I need to sing better and they made me want to be better. The only other time I felt like that is when Daniel Anwar's around. When he walks in, you straighten up. And did you make sort of elaborate demos before the sessions or did you

16:59just kind of bring in sketches and let the musicians sort of express themselves? Yeah, both. Mostly demos that we had. There were only a few moments that were like, this is going to be a musical moment. Mostly we let them just do their thing. Oh, I see. So there's kind of like some skeletons in there that they kind of put the flesh on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We noticed Taylor Goldsmith took away in the credits and Margot Price and there's a few others in there. People we've interviewed in the past that we really like. Yeah. Great to have them. And Taylor's brother is on drums. Yeah. A lot of great people. And I mean,

17:33David Rawlings and Charlie McCoy. They must bring a lot to it, those guys, because of the depth of their experience. I mean, they've done a lot, haven't they? Yeah. Charlie McCoy did those Dylan albums, didn't he? Yeah. The Nashville Dylan albums. Yep. So much history and so much experience and so many stories. Yeah. Sometimes I'd be like looking at the clock. We would start the day with story time, you know? It didn't matter. We just got so much done in three weeks. And we know Jonathan Rado through his work with bands like The Lemon Twigs was suckers for

18:03power pop. Okay. What did he and Sean Everett bring to a record? A lot of pre-production. You know, we had spent time making demos and also they assembled the band. They worked together on doing that. And Rado was playing bass on just about everything. We heard you recorded something like two dozen songs across three weeks. So it must have been going well. Was that a case of just picking the best material or do you have plans for a thrasher two? There's a second record. It's just a thematically different record. Right. Okay.

18:33It's of the romantic nature. Oh, right. But it's not sappy. I wish I could, you know, reveal more. It's just a, it's just another record. I know you've done some stuff in the past that was largely lyric first. I think Pressure Machine actually might've been one. Did any of that carry over into Thrasher where you would really start on paper or? Maybe a couple of songs. Well, like the concept for Paradise was like that. And Tiger's Blood was like that. And you can kind of hear it in those songs, but for the most part, just at the piano.

19:04Miss America has that devastating line. You used to call me Miss America before you got hooked on speed. Yeah. That's a good example, actually, of that mixture of sadness and humor that you talked about earlier. Is that the kind of line that arrives first and then just carries the song in its way? Well, it's true from my sister's perspective. And sometimes you have these memories and it just spills out. You know, the first time I ever heard about speed was me and my sister's husband. I had no idea what anybody was talking about. I was just a little kid. And so that's

19:36that kind of stuff that's just there. And you forget that it's there. I mean, she used to be in these beauty pageants at the malls in Las Vegas. You know, so you go through our photo albums and there's like pictures of Shelly and April in their bathing suits, like on stage and family picture on the next page. And it's just like all that stuff's just kind of coming together. Are you quite vigilant then about when you're encountering something like that, you're looking through and there's always that potential for a song idea? No, what's wild is those are just memories from when I was younger. It wasn't like something that, that I saw recently and was remembered. I think I remember everything. Maybe it's

20:12a gift for me, but I'm surprised at what people don't remember sometimes. We looked at elsewhere. You'll drop a reference to like Footloose as well.

Memories and unique lyrics

20:20It's real though. It's real, you know, like this town we moved to is called Payson, Utah and they filmed Footloose and Payson in the high school. So they filmed it in Payson and Lehigh are the two towns. And so I grew up on the street, Utah Avenue. And at the end of Utah Avenue, when we moved there, there was a car wash and it's an amazing scene now because they don't make movies like that anymore, you know, but just the beauty of this scene, it's just, it's Chris Penn and Kevin Bacon are washing his buggy in this car wash and it's like summer and it's beautiful and like iconic American moment. But yeah, I lived on

20:55that street. And so that was like something that you talked about. We moved to this town, they filmed Footloose, they filmed Footloose here. And Jewel was born there. Those were the two claims to fame. Right. If I play my cards right, I'm hoping to be the third claim to fame for Payson, Utah. You're on the right path. Yeah. You should see these mountains. You know, I hate the snow. But when it falls like ashes, it's kind of pretty though. They got a car wash here. I think it's still in use.

21:33So that's just another example of you just mining your way through your memories for things that might be... Well, I'm thinking of her, she's 21 years old and she's writing this letter explaining to her husband why she has left. And she's still naive enough. She can't help but tell him that they filmed Footloose in this place. So there's something sweet about it, even though it's a heartbreaking song. Yeah. No, I love the way that works. You've always had a kind of sharp

22:05emotional register, haven't you? An ability to pick up on things like that that might be moving. Yeah. I think I'm emotionally charged. I used to think it was maybe a weakness, but as I get older, I'm starting to understand it as a strength and not to shy away from it. Yeah. A song like Plans on this record, we feel has kind of very warm, nostalgic sound, but it's tinged with a bit of sweetness, a kind of disappointment. Yeah. I like how you explore your lower vocal register on that in the verses as well. Yeah. I don't think I've ever recorded a

22:38song that low before. It really makes the chorus stand out. Really hits. I need to experiment with that a little bit more. That song gave me an opportunity to do that because there's a gentleness to it. Whereas in the Killers world, if Ronnie's playing, I can't sing that low. I got to compete with him. You know, that's a lot. That's a lot. Yeah. I had some trepidation for sure about singing that low. I'm still getting used to hearing it. No, it sounded great. Oh, thanks. Yeah. You're also unusually good at up-tempo songs that carry sort of a lot of emotion and sentiments. When you were

23:08young probably is an obvious example. I tend to feel like emotional weight is harder to achieve at speed. Right. I don't know if you feel that way. That's more of a challenge in the writing. It just creeps its way in. No, that's a good observation though. Tiger's Blood has. Tiger's Blood has got some heat and it's got that vein of sadness that runs throughout it. Yeah. I don't know. I never set out to do it, but I think it's maybe something that I just do. I tend to feel the slower people get with the song, the more emotional and sort of downbeat they become. But yeah, you

23:42sometimes go the opposite way. You've always had a knack for an unusual line as well. Again, obvious examples, but I got soul, but I'm not a soldier or are we human or are we dancing? Right. Do you actively look for those kinds of odd phrases or are they just the kind of things that will just fall out when you're right? I got soul, but I'm not a soldier. It makes perfect sense. But I will give you, I understand the dancer. I understand why that's frustrating for people. I say that line's got a mohawk. And so what do you got from this new one? Do you have a line that stands out? I have a couple that I can think of that are fun.

24:15Oh, go on. Give us yours. Oh, Peach Fuzz Boys getting hard in the corner on Mortal Kombat. Yes. Another nice cultural reference there as well. Yeah. That's self-explanatory. Probably like just enough jelly beans in my basket to ask you to go wishing on a star. I like that. Like no AI is never going to write that line. Yeah. And are these- Take that AI. Are they crafted lines or are they just things that just spring? Well, it's like, it's a thing in Utah. You might hear a mom say, oh, he's got a lot

24:45of jelly beans in his basket. Like he's talented, but I sort of used it as a more of a male anatomy jelly beans in my basket. Yeah. And do you keep notes of stuff like that? Like do you have lists of these interesting sorts of- Oh no, I just, I think I just got it on tap. I just got it on tap. I'm lucky. I'm always looking out for them though. I was in a house the other day that had all this Australian slang. Some great stuff in there. It takes confidence, doesn't it? Not to second guess those kinds of things or stupidity. Have you ever talked yourself out of an unusual line

25:19or maybe regretted it? No, we know we had a band meeting about human. Wow. Okay. I was fine with it. A couple of us were fine with it and a couple of us were not fine with it. But yeah, no, I'm sure I've talked myself out of stuff. Yeah, for sure. I don't remember those. And sonically, you go to some really interesting places on the record, like on Red Ground, which has those mariachi horns. How did those kinds of arrangements come about? Is that stuff worked out in the room or is it all prepared beforehand? On two songs, there's the mariachis and those are actually separately recorded because you

25:53got to do it in LA if you're going to do the mariachi. So those were after we recorded in Nashville, we took those two to LA to record the real thing. I see. So there's a process of knowing where that's going to be as you're kind of at the piano at that early stage or is that all coming down the road? Yeah, I had a couple, like on Angel, maybe I had the, you know, fake mariachi, you know, mocked up. Right. And then we would show an outline to them and then Nashville has some people that can do it, but it's just LA is where you should do your mariachi if you're going to mariachi. Nice. Bear that in mind.

26:24Yeah. Good tip. Yeah. We love the instrumental hook in paradise as well. That's very memorable. So that's one thing that would have been, I had that before and that was like, okay, this is the part. And so that would have been written on the piano. So you'd had that line, shadows are my dreams, and then followed it with that melody. Yes. On the piano. So that, yeah, that's one of the few instances where it was like, okay, this is the head, you know, I would call it the head. Yeah. Of the song. It's the intro and the outro and the post chorus. And it was so solid. So they

26:55just learn, they learn it like, you know, in two seconds and it's crazy. So it's just another day in paradise. Another raindrop in the sea. Count the hours to quitting time. Trying to cross a silver line that always leans. Just beyond the shadows of my dreams.

Melodic instincts and synth pop

27:29And given the kind of hit rate of strong melodies across the killer stuff and your solo records, do you have any idea or sense of why your melodic instincts connect with so many people? Have you thought about that at all? I haven't thought about it. I think I always was attached to not just the lyric or just the song or the guitar part. I was always, I was interested in those moments. My mentor is a guy named Trevor. He always comes up because he was, you know, the first band I was in before

28:00the killers. Is this the synth pop band? Yeah. Yeah. And, and he, man, he just taught me so much. He was just so invested and wanted to learn every little detail about, you know, what Martin Hanna did and the way that Vince Clark recorded and things like that. And one of the weird little quirks of Vince Clark is that everything is programmed, right? But if there's a synth solo, he doesn't program it. He wants it to be a live take that Erasure stuff. And maybe even that first Depeche Mode record, like if it's a synth solo, he played it, but everything else, you know, would have been

28:32programmed. Yeah. And so those little things, like, I don't know, it sticks out to you and it sort of informs the way that I think of melody or when does a melody happen? Like maybe on Smile, like You Meet It or something in between the gaps of singing the chorus or, you know, I'm thinking about Vince Clark playing it or whatever it is. Yeah. I did wonder if it was that sort of synth pop background that it kind of led you to have this strong melodic sense, because if you think of all that stuff, Depeche Mode, Human League, you know. Huge Pet Shop Boys, huge synth lines. And just the melodies are so pure.

29:03Yeah. And they're usually simple too, you know, when you're young, you know, you just think that it's going to be so complicated. And then when you really, when you really learn it, it's not, it's, you know, the best melodies are pretty simple. Yeah. We made the playlist. We always do before we speak to someone so we can just, you know, go back through the material. And we had, somebody told me Jenny was a friend of mine. You smile like you mean it when you were young, read my mind, human. And we were like, is this guy taking a special course or something? Melodically, like it's a very defined identity, isn't it?

29:35Yeah. It's kind of lucky, I guess. Is there a sort of process of crafting these melodies or is it usually just sort of first thought, best thoughts? Sometimes there is an evolution and like reworking things. Like I look at Jenny was a friend of mine, like the outro synth or something like that, that I play. I totally connect it to like house music that I was hearing, like Alice DJ. All right. It was 1999 or whatever when I, in 2000, when I would like get a fake ID and go to the strip. And so you would hear do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do,

30:10bo, bo, bo, do, no, no, no, no. You know, it was like. It sounds so simple. Oh, yeah. And I was like, that was what I was literally going for at the end of Jenny was a friend of mine. you've said in the past that you'll write a lot of sixes and sevens

30:40but we were wondering how do you know when you've got hold of a nine or a ten oh man it's hard i used to say sevens i'm getting more realistic man i write some twos and threes i feel like i just got my phone i have 1500 voice memos i think i've had it about a year it's such a relief to get a new phone i just erase it because it's junk and so it's that thing it just going back and going back and going back i don't know when i know whether it's a you just kind of know you know when if it's

31:13an eight or nine if it's an eight you should keep it we've also kept sevens and released them to the world and we shouldn't have the killers have scrap material though haven't they there was an album not long back wasn't there where you kind of moved on yeah it was mostly the genre that it was you know it was more synth leaning and i just want to get away from that a little bit yeah and are those songs just scrapped completely or might you go back and sort of scavenge for bits that you can use yeah they're around you know yeah they're mostly just gone probably we had a guest recently who

31:44actually ended up burning all of his songwriting journals because he told himself that every good line he ever had in them he's probably already used so it was very freeing for him to just it feels good yeah like when i get a new phone i really i feel it's like the best day because that other it's gone it's just it's so nice are they all named and i know i hate it when i forget to i hate it when i don't name them and that'll be something i'll do on a long flight is go through and listen and just name it or delete it because i just can't believe that i'll get into that habit of not naming

32:16it and then you don't know where you're at and yeah do you go through periods where you can't write or you don't like anything that you're writing yeah i haven't had a lot of experience with writers block or i don't acknowledge it you know because there's definitely been droughts but i still will it's so ingrained in me to go to the piano and do something that i'll do it but even if it's not

The burden of great songwriting

32:35very good being such a fan of music does the weight of all the great songs that have been written weigh on you at all yeah oh yes it's the bane of my existence it's also why i'm sitting here you know it's like both it's like i carry it it's almost all i think about it's a terrible terrible burden yeah no it strikes me as like the ultimate challenge for a songwriter really it's when you sit down it's like you know there's so many songs does the world need another song you have to sort of overcome that obstacle before you can write anything yeah yeah i have a song called

33:09i have all the songs been written and that's where that came from it can be so overwhelming it's like delusional to think that you're going to have one to begin with it's mad you know there's so many i have a therapist and it comes up all the time like you think about what people have accomplished sometimes it's unbelievable what some people have accomplished i mean the ones that come to mind are like tom petty and elton john and like he wrote someone saving my life tonight like those songs are outrageous some of them how good they are no we feel it too because you know we've

33:44done this podcast for what 15 years now and so we've we've devoured the catalogs of so many songwriters that you get to a point where you're like wow there's just so much amazing stuff why would anyone even need another song was that something bono said to you about the have all the songs been written i sent him an email and the subject was have all the songs been written okay and that was a moment of one of those droughts that we talked about for me for sure it was just a season we got

34:17through it can't have your peaks without your troughs exactly and you've used their material as a kind of starting point having you you two songs yeah for sure in some ways the way that they apply gospel you know or or just chord progressions and things like that yeah and i've always admired the way that they are spiritual you know and uplifting and and truth tellers and i love that stuff i'm sure i read somewhere that with or without you was like an inspiration for you with mr bright side oh yeah just

34:48the way the chords move so dave already had the the verse in the pre-chorus chords and i'd put a chorus on and instead of going c sharp a flat b flat minor f sharp which would be with or without you yeah i went c sharp f sharp b flat a i just switched the order of those and that's the chorus but yeah whether or without you's a master class and the cyclical freaking chord progression damn yeah is

35:18that something you've done a lot of sort of using someone else's song as a jumping off point yeah in those early days it was it was a lot of like you two and oasis oasis what i attribute to them is the large pre-chorus i almost don't want to say it because i feel like it's like i want to bring back the big pre-chorus it is so powerful and when you learn those i have a son that's 15 now and he has picked up the guitar and he's fallen in love with oasis which is great i didn't learn the songs i knew the songs but i didn't learn them so i sit at the piano and he plays the guitar

35:49behind me and just the pre-choruses that is the secret it's not easy but that's the secret sauce yeah live forever springs to mind as being a good pre-chorus well actually it doesn't really have a chorus of switch it just has that live forever at the end of yeah sort of a pre-chorus and a chorus all it was but i mean the ultimate is don't look back in anger that pre-chorus just doesn't end and then you get you know the giant chorus it's good that no we were really taken with

Closing out the record

36:17the closer on the new album an american dream this is kind of the culmination of all the things we've talked about you know that deep kind of emotional sense but also those lovely americana lines what is it lights that flicker on hubcap chrome it's a good one congratulations thanks where did that one come from and did you know it had to be the conclusion to the record yeah it felt like either the first song or the last song it feels very climactic yeah and then when does it ever cross your mind came as soon as we got that intro i was like oh that's got to be the first song

36:48but yeah it's sort of psychedelic country you know it's a little bit wild for me i've never done anything like it the other ones are very you know specific narratives this one is a little different because i'm playing on the dream aspect of the american dream it's a dream sequence it was so much fun to do you know like a little bit of ray charles in there a little bit of van morrison in there i'm excited for people to hear that one does sean everett feed into that process with the the vocals on that the backing vocals and the layering and all of that yeah you know he's known for

37:20being a mixer i mean that's what he's known for but he'll hate me saying it but he's a fantastic producer i will use him for that like i'm fine with the mixes but i like being with him you know at the beginning of an idea or being in the studio and that's when he's so valuable to me and just so much fervor for music still he should be jaded by now you know he's been doing this so long sitting at a computer and it's like he's just not do you feel like you've still got that fervor no i'm just steal sean's that's what i'm there a vampire

37:56well brandon thanks so much for chatting we've loved talking about the record and hearing about the process behind it thank you guys to the gold and silver god and glitter lights that flicker on hook cap chrome on the road to heaven in strauss and stetson swimming pools of horsepower

38:26take me back that was brandon flowers talking to us at universal music in london about his excellent new record thresher what a generous conversation that was bright it really was i love that story about his dad trying to teach him to fight and how all these years later he's still shadow boxing on stage i mean that's basically the whole record in one image isn't it it is yeah and i was really moved by him talking about one of us as well that tribute to his brother-in-law very moving song and one which

39:00speaks to what he loves about country music you know that sadness and levity can sit together in the same song yeah and you get that in miss america too don't you it's devastating and funny all at once and all of these written at the piano apparently and not just any piano either no a gift from elton john no less no wonder he's got 1500 voice memos on his phone i'd never be off that thing and did you notice how much you relish the idea of a new phone wiping the slate clean i mean i guess you just get to a point where your archive has become a bit of

39:31a burden yeah we got some proper songwriting nerdery in there too though didn't we the vince clark synth solo revelation yeah and the power of the big oasis style pre-chorus and mr brightside i love that he was rearranging the chords of with or without you to get to that all great stuff and sheds a lot of light on his approach to melody and his melodic gifts in general it's funny to hear him wrestle with the question of whether all the songs have been written as well he even emailed bono about it yeah and clearly they haven't all been written because nobody had put the phrase just

40:02enough jelly beans in my basket in a song until now words to live by so thanks to brandon for such an open conversation thrashette is available everywhere now cheers again to flossy and the team for organizing and we'll be back with you soon take care bye bye you