Guerrilla Radio #1: Kurt Russellreunion 3 Review (PATREON PREVIEW)

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1:03See the transformation for yourself. Visit us now at centermedspa.com. Hello there, friends. As you wait for the Bound for Glory 2006 episode of You Got to Be Hitting Me, as I overcome a cold and Liam overcomes his winter work rush, we figured we'd drop the first episode of our Pro Wrestling Guerrilla Patreon show, where we reviewed every PWG show from 2012, starting in this episode with Kurt Russell Reunion 3, featuring a whole bunch of Dragon Gate stars, so that was fun. We will be back at some point in January with the Bound for Glory 2006 episode of You Got to Be Hitting Me.

1:35And if you would like to listen to the entire series of this PWG review show, you can head to patreon.com slash kiddingme and listen to all of the episodes of Guerrilla Radio so far, covering every PWG show from 2012. This episode originally, by the way, was published January 2023, in case there's any dated references. I hope you enjoy it, and Happy New Year.

1:59Welcome, everybody, to the first episode of our brand-new Patreon show, Guerrilla Radio. I am Garrett Kidney-Taylor, and I'm joined by Liam Jones-Taylor. Liam, how you doing? Ah, and we're the Fightin' Taylor Boys. Yeah, we're the distant cousins of Brian Cage-Taylor and Ryan Taylor. And Chuck Taylor. He's not on this show, but he doesn't count. He is the leader of the Fightin' Taylor Boys. Well, he wasn't on this show, and therefore I have object permanence issues, and he's not real. Literally, one of the first things I was going to ask you was, did you know about the Fightin' Taylor Boys gimmick?

2:29I knew he was Brian Cage-Taylor and teamed with Ryan Taylor. I did not know about the gimmick. There's some great, like... I miss when PWG would do promo segments, and there's some really fun ones where, like, Ryan Cage-Taylor and Ryan Taylor are hanging out, and Chuck Taylor comes in, and he's, like, as if he was pantomimeing that he's been talking to, like, their uncle, the patriarch of the Taylor family, and complaining about their losses and stuff. Mm. Like, it's very good stuff. I guess we'll get into the PWG stuff immediately.

2:59Part of, like, my early fandom of PWG was Chuck Taylor stuff. Yeah, if this was on the two shows you told me to watch beforehand, I was going to, but then I watched Legend of Vox Machina instead, and I thought you'd at least approve of that decision now to watch them. Well, at least you're sacrificing a thing I love for a thing I love. Yeah. Go back and watch... Is it Fear or Steenwolf that's the better one? It might be Fear. No, I think it's Steenwolf. Watch them both, though, because, like, that two run of PWG shows is, like,

3:31among the best two, like, runs in PWG history, and they're easy watches, so, like, you don't have to, like, completely focus on them, but, like, just chuck them on in the background. They're worth it. I am the PWG casual fan, parachuting in here in 2012. All right, so, yeah, I guess let's talk about that a little bit. Like, how much PWG have you watched? I have a very bad memory for non-TNA wrestling. Yeah, you used up all your brain power for one specific company. It is legitimately that,

4:02where it's, like, I use all of what's in my head to remember things about fucking Crimson. Yeah. And then I have no brain power left. Because, like, I would have watched... I didn't watch full shows. I would have watched recommended matches a decent amount during this era, particularly, like, Tozawa stuff. And I was thinking the same about, like, big Ring of Honor matches, where people are, like, you know, when they're sharing their favorite Briscoes matches. And I was like, I would have watched a good amount of Ring of Honor, full Ring of Honor shows, from, like, 2007 to 2012-ish in particular.

4:35I remember absolutely none of it. None of it has stayed in my brain. So, um, I don't know. I don't remember what I watched. Um, okay. So, remember when we were talking about New Japan, and I was going, like, waxing poetically about my love of the company and how it, like, saved pro wrestling for me? Mm-hmm. This was the other half of that. Mm. Um, PWG was really the first company outside of WWE that I ever started watching. I don't even remember what made me watch

5:07the first time. I remember the show. It was PWG as the Worm Turns, I believe, in 2010. And, um, it was just something about the vibe. It was something about, like, the commentary. Guys, like, you know, this is... I'm a little fan of this guy. You may have heard of him. He's called Kenny Omega? Uh, no. Oh, well, he was on one of these shows. Again, object permanence issues. He's not on this show. Yeah, yeah. Well, he was on some of these shows at the time. And I was like, who is this guy? Who are these... The Young Bucks? Who is this El Generico? This Chuck Taylor? This Chris Hero?

5:38Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And that was the thing that hooked me. And then I started buying, like... I didn't start... When did I start buying DVDs? Maybe the 2013 stuff? I think DDT4 2013 was the first DVD I bought. And then I bought, like, every show for the next two years. And I can't... I cannot express to you how much PWG I watched in between, like, 2010 and 2015. It was, like, the only thing that I would put on in the background for things.

6:09Like, my nights would consist of playing EWR and putting on PWG and shoot interviews. I was a very popular kid. Well, we're all wrestling fans. None of us were popular kids. Like, where do you think I watched most of TNA? Like, when I was re-watching... Because, obviously, I didn't start watching TNA regularly until, like, the end of 2006. So, it's like, all the stuff I didn't see, it was literally the same thing. It might have been Football Manager occasionally for me, as well as EWR and DEW. But I'd throw on Football Manager, and I'd manage my Sheffield United Football Club while playing...

6:43While watching a bunch of old wrestling. Same with, like, whenever that's the same way I watch a lot of old WCW as well. It's just like, I'm gonna watch all of 2000 Nitro. Why? Don't ask me. But I was like, I'm gonna watch all of 2000 Nitro and have it on in the background while I play simulation management games. Yeah, that's what it was. It was watching PWG on one half of my laptop screen with EWR on the other half. And having, like, everything from 2007 onwards downloaded, and just going through it, and then re-watching it again immediately after finishing, like, a year.

7:17Because, like, I don't have, like, a massive knowledge on the early years up until, like, 2007-2008. But everything from 2008 to, like, 2015, I have watched a thousand times over. You can listen to our pals at Journey to Grill Island and learn about all the early day stuff, Liam. There you go. It's a perfect hybrid. But, um, yeah, that was just... That's what my days were. This company was the company that I dug deep into. I was on the PWG forums, pining for Ryan Taylor to make his return.

7:51Oh, are you one of the guys who's like, all of the West Coast guys aren't there anymore for all of these hot Indiacs? You know, I wasn't that guy, but I was definitely, like, watching those conversations take place. You were like, Chris Cadillac, why do you only do three shows? I love Chris Cadillac, alright? We're going to talk about Chris Cadillac in a moment. One of my, like, favourite guys that just popped up randomly and then left. We can talk about Brandon Gatson. We can talk about Malachi Jackson. There's some fun.

8:22The fact that AEW haven't booked Malachi yet does upset me a little. Even, like, just for, like, getting beat up by the bad guys angle. Hmm. That was actually one of the, like, the fun bits about the Bucks doing their heel turn is when they, like, destroyed their brother. He deserved it. Um, but yeah, like, that was, that was what I was doing. And that's where my formation of outside WWE pro wrestling came from. And then from there, I started watching New Japan and then boom, boom, boom. Now I watch everything and I'm way too involved in this stupid business.

8:55So there is a direct line to you hosting a TNA podcast from you watching PWG. I want you to know that. Yeah. Unfortunate. I should have, I hate this company now. I'm taking it all back. Yeah, you should have never watched it and then you'd never be hosting a TNA podcast. Damn it. If only I had have known. But yeah, that's, um, that's where my, my PWG fandom came from. And then it just, I think it sort of waned a little bit. So, sort of around when the Brit rest boom started happening and PWG, PWG shows started to become a little harder to get.

9:30And, uh, and now, like, I don't even really watch them when they come out. I kind of skim through them. You just watch the preview trailer and that's it. That's the real show. Yeah. It's a little bit. Um, but yeah, and then leaving Reseda was a big part of it too. Like, that was the identity of the company for me. It was that venue and that crowd. So when they, I like the globe looks great and I think it's about as good of a replacement as you can get. But like, it's, it's not Reseda. Reseda is like my favorite venue of all time.

10:00Like it's Currican Hall and it's Reseda, California. The American Legion post 308. It is funny that the first show we're watching is also still not Reseda. No, yeah. Um, which is honestly like I used to skip these shows a lot. The Kurt Russell reunions were never my, my go-to shows when watching stuff. And I would always just skip to the next one because it wasn't Reseda. I did enjoy the other big building that they would run in like 08 or whatever. Because it had the very famous bowler where Kenny Omega broke the top rope after being thrown into it.

10:31And then in a three versus three versus three tag match, they all turned on him for breaking the ring. And he, he ran through the entirety of the building and outside away from every other team member. That was very rude of them to turn on poor Kenneth. While Davey Richards and Necro Butcher are wrestling in the ring or some shit. Trying to, and it was, and like there's, because there was this great big open building. And then there was like a, a platform above it with staircases on either side that you could still see on camera.

11:02And they would pan the camera back and you would see Kenny just running along the top of it. While this swarm of six other guys follow him and two guys try to catch him at the other end. But he jukes around them and runs down the stairs and goes outside. That is the moment he became the cleaner actually. Yes. Um, that was, um, Omega's debut weekend. That was also Chuck Taylor's debut weekend. And he broke the ring. What an unprofessional, horrible person. He should have never been brought back. Well, I think we're telling you, can we, can we blame Davey who threw him into the ropes? Nope.

11:32Davey is completely faultless. It's Kenny's fault. Davey didn't touch the ropes. That's fair. That's fair. But yeah, that's, um, that's kind of my history with it. I don't, I, I don't know how we're going to like really talk about these shows. Cause there's no real stories to dig into. It's more just like talking about the people at this point in their careers and like the matchups. But this one I find is going to be a lot easier, I think, because there's some cool aspects of, Hey, what the, what did 2012 independent pro wrestling look like and how different it is compared to now.

12:04And the influx of, of the still running DG USA at the time. Yeah, it's, it's fascinating to look at the depth of talent and there, there's kind of a few reasons for why there is that kind of depth of talent, because this is still slightly pre NXT. NXT is getting off the ground in the Triple H form at this stage, but not nearly as much as the hire every fucking indie wrestler on earth. A good reference point for that is in the, like the, the next show, like equivalent of the year after DDT4 is Generico's last show.

12:37Hmm. So we're, we're just getting into the phase where Triple H signs every wrestler on earth. Yeah. This will be the next two years where we, we, we, the stories of William Regal hanging out at PWG shows will start popping up. Yeah. And we're also in the phase where this was Hogan Bischoff TNA, where they, they just did not even look at the indies. There was not even a thought to sign the best wrestlers off the indies. They were busy trying to sign like six foot three, 1999 superstars. So there, there was almost the period during which the indies were least recruited from, because at least in the early to mid 2000s, like TNA were at least trying to pick up the likes of Joe and Styles and Daniels and people like that.

13:19And Shelly, whereas here it's like TNA aren't looking at it. WWE are only beginning to finally realize that independent wrestlers are good, actually, as, as I think Brian Danielson was WWE champion during the period when the show took place, I think Excalibur mentioned. Um, so they were like, Hey, these guys actually might be pretty good. And we might be able to hang some of our company on these pretty good independent pro wrestlers instead of the same six foot two, 1999 superstars they're all looking for. So there, there, it's like an almost unprecedented period of under recruitment of the indies and Ring of Honor weren't exactly in a, in a, a place to sign people to full-time deals, at least at this stage.

13:57And even when they, they would, at that time, there was the whole thing about guys from this area being too expensive to fly. And that's the reason why Cornette allegedly, the reason why he stopped wanting to bring in TJ Perkins and the Bucks. And that was also the time when, uh, you know, they were trying to phase out Steam, trying to phase out Generico. He's so stupid. What a stupid, dumb man. So it's like, there's a, you know, even, even Ring of Honor is being picky about it and you won't start seeing like those guys moving around a lot more until like, and then New Japan starts getting this foreign following and starts picking up your, your guys, like the Bucks and your Omegas and such.

14:37Even though at this point, this is kind of like toward, like Omega's kind of done around at this point. He's more an 09 guy. It is like, uh, just an unprecedented level of talent on the independents. Just, it's insane how much talent is there top to bottom constantly. And, and even some of the, the contracted TNA guys, uh, occasionally work shows like the, not PWG, but Pork and Indies. So you have a lot of people having exposure to great wrestlers and that's how you get more great wrestlers. Like the same thing happened in, in where you get the, the 2000s indie boom, where you have like 15 just phenomenal pro wrestlers in Ring of Honor.

15:13And you would ask yourself, well, how the hell does that happen without any of these guys getting signed? It's like, well, no one was signing them. So they were all there. They were all working each other and they were all getting better. And the same thing happened here at the start of this decade where they were all there. They had this huge influx of Dragon Gate talent, as you mentioned from DG USA. So they were all there. They were all wrestling great wrestlers. They were all wrestling Dragon Gate wrestlers too. And they all just got really good. This was the part, the, the portion of history where PWG was kind of like Switzerland as well. Where it'd be the place that was still allowed to book Ring of Honor and DG USA and Evolve guys all on the same, and TNA guys with the bucks all on the same shows.

15:51Yeah. You would have that period after awards where Ring of Honor got a little, a little combative toward PWG. Yeah. Yeah. When Michael Elgin lost to Trevor Lee. Which is funny because, like, Ring of Honor used to be where I used to buy PWG DVDs. Yeah, that's part of it too, yeah. The yearly Ring of Honor sale where things used to be, like, dirt cheap is where I used to buy a ton of wrestling DVDs. And then suddenly they're like, no, get out of here, PWG. We don't want you anymore. Which would be a very funny full circle moment if PWG does end up going on the new Honor Club.

16:22So, I guess we'll start. This is Kurt Russell Reunion 3 we're talking about with Excalibur and Cold Cabana on commentary. And why will we talk about some of the commentary? That is probably, like, this is, I'd imagine it's probably worse on the earlier PWG shows. Oh, boy, is it, Garrett Kidney. Or there's a lot of stuff where you'd be like, oi, oi, oi, oi, oi. But there's still a good amount of stuff on these shows that you're like, oi, oi, oi. Yeah, and it really is, like, the product of, like, that kind of time period humor, too.

16:54It's a lot of, like, I don't know the words that I want to use to describe it. But, like, you're always sunny type and you're community and you're, like, it's, like, that kind of white liberal guilt humor. Where it's, like, scumbag left, you know what I mean? Where we're going to say inappropriate things, but with the knowledge that the things that we're saying and being inappropriate is the joke. Yeah, without getting to the phase of just, let's just not. Let's just not. And this is probably, like, right, like, 2012 is right in the edge of let's just not.

17:27And this is, and I had this conversation with some people about, like, the possibility of a PWG going on an honor club and how much they would have to scrub. And my solution was just, just do from, like, 2012 till now. Like, don't even bother going back to the older stuff. It's, it's, it's impossible. Funny thing is, if you were a bad faith wrestling fan, you could basically probably cancel every independent wrestler from the years 2002 to 2013 through PWG. But they'll never watch PWG, so you're fine.

17:59I really want someone to cancel Chuck Taylor for calling Ricochet a gay lizard. Yeah. Which is, which is a top five all-time PWG commentary moment. Mmm. Which is just him going, you know what Ricochet looks like? And Excalibur's like, what? He just goes, a gay lizard. And everyone just cracks up. Canceled. Canceled. You really could. You really could cancel them all. Go for it. I mean, they tried with Excalibur. That's true. Because, you know, he said the N-word.

18:29And he probably has a lot more than that if he went through the entire history of PWG. Oh, boy, does he, Garrett Kidney. Oh, bless him.

18:38Yeah. And, you know, that was just, that was the general aesthetic of that, those early year PWG shows. And it starts, like, I feel like 2012 is kind of the year that it begins to falter off. Well, that is when you do have the broader cultural shift around it. It's just like, knock it off. Just knock it off. Like, there was the stage where it's like, it was always inappropriate. But it was, it wasn't unacceptable for the time. And as you get into 2012, 2013, 2014, it's like, that's when it becomes really unacceptable for the time.

19:10Yeah, 100%. But I suppose we should dig into this show. An interesting show, because I believe this is their Mania weekend thing? Yeah, because it's tied to the Wrestle Reunion, which is where Kurt Russell Reunion comes from, which is very good wordplay. Well done. Which, by the way, PWG should be forever credited for, like, the witty title indie shit. Yeah, it's considered a progress thing, isn't it? But it's like, no. Yeah, they stole their shtick from PWG. As if there's anything original about progress. Wow, that's a very deep quote.

19:43So, yeah, this is Kurt Russell Reunion 3, January 29th, 2012, tied to the Wrestle Reunion convention, which is the reason there's some wacky people on this show. This is also, I was going to say, this is a way better Kurt Russell Reunion. This is probably the best Kurt Russell Reunion of the three, because the other ones were a little too not-PWG. Like, they had, like, a Legends Battle Royal on one, and they had, like, RVD versus Chris Hero versus Roderick Strong for the PWG title on one of them. Hmm. Like, and this one is kind of just, like, what if we did PWG, but with, like, Dragon Gate talent?

20:16Yeah, I was going to say, like, there's not that much wacky people. Like, Masquerida Dorada is probably the extent of the wacky people, really. And he's awesome in that match. Oh, yeah, we'll talk about him. And Harry Smith a little bit, I guess. Harry Smith is kind of the, is the most, like, wacky choice, like, wacky we're at WrestleMania weekend choice to me. Though he is a late fill-in for Eddie Edwards, isn't he? Did you mention that on commentary? I think so, yeah. So, they reunited with Harry's Goldwars instead. Which, by the way, I think, I meant, like, third from the top, from the bottom, we were just going to get the Bucks versus the Wolves. Yeah.

20:46But, yeah, even though it's tied to one of those big wrestling conventions, it's not the wackiest of shows. As you said, it's basically a PWG versus Dragon Gate show. So, yeah, and it's awesome. And it has, like, you know, some of those PWG staples on there as well. The opening match, the Fightin' Taylor boys of Brian Cage Taylor and Ryan Taylor faced Famous B and Chris Cadillac. So, I love the Fightin' Taylor boys. I thought they were always great. And especially when Chuck was with them, who was also the best co-commentator in PWG history.

21:17I just want to establish that. Like, Kevin Steen's a close number two, but Chuck Taylor's the number one. So, I liked Chris Cadillac in all of his appearances, even, like, when I was, like, 13 watching these shows, I liked Chris Cadillac because he did flips and had cool pants. That is half of what pro wrestling is, flips and cool pants. And then, um, Famous B, a name that I was always, like, whatever on these shows, but then when he showed up in Lucha Underground, I was hooting and hollering. He was like, my guy! Even though I didn't love you, you're still my guy. Yeah, because you're a PWG guy from the era when I was watching PWG, so of course you were.

21:48It was the same with Willie Mack whenever, like, because he kind of had the WWE thing fall through and then he stopped doing PWG after that. And then eventually, like, whenever he would start popping up places, I'm like, hell yeah, Willie Mack. And now he may be a Room of Honor 8 over guy, so. Brian Cage upsets me in this match. It's because he's not seven times the size. It's so, like, if you were to put this Brian Cage, who is still a big man, he's not small, but if you were to put this Brian Cage next to 2023 Brian Cage, I'm pretty sure 2023 Brian Cage would be twice as wide.

22:21Which is hilarious, because, like, you put him next to, like, 2018 Brian Cage, and he's, like, three times the size. Like, Brian Cage of 2023 is slimmed down. It's, like, it's almost an optical illusion to me now to see this year of Brian Cage, where he still has this big Brian Cage head, but it looks almost photoshopped onto a smaller Brian Cage body. I'm like, oh, it's just, it's like one of those things that hurts your eyes. I'm like, it doesn't look right. It's uncanny valley for him to not be just the most humongous of men.

22:55Garrett, this is how I knew him. This is how I was introduced to Brian Cage. Like, same for me. Like, the first time I would have seen Cage was probably some indie stuff, and then he did the gut check stuff in TNA in 2013, where he still would have been roughly this size. But, like, I didn't realize how much I had internalized modern Brian Cage as my image of Brian Cage when I saw him here. It's like, he's just a normal-sized big guy. Yeah. And then, like, when we were talking about that, it reminded me of Brian Cage of a few years ago when he was even bigger than he is now.

23:26And I was like, God, what a monster he was. And he got hurt doing literally everything he ever did. Exactly, yeah. And that's the thing about Brian Cage at this point. He's Brian Cage, but he can actually pull off all the moves really well. Yeah, whereas if you watch it like TNA or all impacting Brian Cage in particular, that's, I think, when he was at his biggest and least able to move, but still insisted on trying to move. And he got hurt all the time. But it's something, like, you can really appreciate from the guy. Like, his dedication to still doing his crazy shit. He is truly Mr. Get My Shit In, even when he is far too large to beat Mr. Get My Shit In.

24:02It was really fun to hear the Brian Cage is a fucking machine call, even this early. Mmm. Because, yeah, when you watch the Impact run, where he's like, he does get hurt far too often. And even, like, his world title reign was completely, like, cursed by the fact that he got injured in the match where he beat Johnny Impact. And then he was working Elgin, which didn't help, even though those matches fucking rocked, but then Elgin.

24:23But, yeah, now you need to watch him in an era where he is normal big-sized as opposed to irrationally big-sized, where he can look big and cool and do power moves and also do flips without dying. Ideal. Yeah. And, of course, like, I'm a big Ryan Taylor guy. I've always enjoyed Ryan Taylor. What's Ryan Taylor up to? I don't think he's doing anything now. He did the ROH stuff pre-pandemic, and then I think he got re-signed by NXT and then fired again? That's unfortunate. Because he was doing the Diamond Mine stuff? Because I was looking at Chris Cadillac, which this is his third and final PWG match.

24:55It is the only time we'll be talking about Chris Cadillac, and then he just does a bunch of West Coast Indies and kind of hasn't wrestled in recent years. No. Yeah. It's a... I don't know. It's a fun little opener. Yeah, there was a cool flapjack onto the knees by the Taylors to add to... More people should be doing cool double teams in 2020. Yeah, that was some of the stuff that I came out of this show looking at. I was like, people just don't do cool double teams anymore. And even when I was watching some of, like, actually, it was this match particularly, I was like, they're doing, like, a lot of crazy spots in the same style that you would see now,

25:28but they're doing different and innovative things as opposed to just doing the same three spots in a bunch of different ways. Yeah, there's... Well, actually, the finish is a Canadian Destroyer. I shouldn't say there's no Canadian Destroyer. There is. But it's a cool, like, double Canadian Destroyer, like, tag move. It's sick. No, it was terrible. No, it's sick. Cage had Famous B across his legs. Yeah, it rules. And he was, like, propelling Ryan Taylor's Canadian Destroyer. It looked terrible. It was awesome. It's sick. On commentary, Colt said, Papa Taylor, he be fucking, to which Excalibur replies,

26:01Famous B, wish he be fucking, but he's getting fucked. My favourite one was, um, it says Famous B on the back of his trunks, but on the front it says Famous A.

26:12Cage hit a terrible cactus clothesline on Famous B over the top. Bad, bad clothesline. That did immediately set up your favourite PWG spot, which is the doomsday suicide dive. Yeah, in the first fucking match. It's awesome. And he hits both of them. Yeah. Like, not only does he do the doomsday, he keeps going and hits, like, the other guy behind him. It is some prime PWG. Yeah, good shit. As mentioned, Ryan Taylor beats Famous B with the, the assisted, launched Canadian Destroyer that didn't work.

26:44But I admire the creativity, but it didn't work. In one of many Dragon Gate matches on this show, BB Hulk faced Jimmy Susumu. Um, I thought this was actually really awesome. Yeah, I thought it was like, it was a little, there was a few matches in this show that I'm like, a little slow to get going, but they got there in the end, and this is very much one that got there in the end because they kept dropping each other in their goddamn heads. Yeah, like, the start of this match, it felt like, as if they were, like, working some Dragon Gate house show. But by the end of it, they were, like, into it, and it had stepped up a whole nother level.

27:15Yeah, and they went over the crowd. They were talking about how Jimmy Susumu just got the name Jimmy, and it's meant to be an insult in Japan, it's meant to be an idiot. And then Colt was like, there's some good Jimmys in America, like, Jimmy Carter and Jimmy Fallon. I miss the Jimmys in Dragon Gate. Also, one of the best unit disband matches was the Jimmys disbanding match. Mm. Uh, yeah, I thought this was great. I also love Susumu. He's great. Underrated guy. Yeah, there was a lot of dropping each other in their head. Like, Hulk somehow dropped himself in his head doing a flatliner rather than taking a flatliner.

27:45This is also the stage where, um, B.B. Hulk is mobile enough to, like, make all of his kicks super snug. Mm. Like, he does his, like, his crane kick to the top of the head, and it's just, like, that was so, it's just so awesome, and so, like, it's just, you rock the guy while you're doing it. Yeah, B.B. Hulk is one of those, like, Japanese wrestlers that's over-indexed in my brain, just because of how, like, prevalent he was in DGUSA. Yeah, and the time period at which, like, you started watching, too, he was all over it.

28:16Yeah, so it's, like, there's just tons of B.B. Hulk, and, like, he's probably, like, my sixth favorite Dragon Grey wrestler, but, like, he's there, and he's always there, so it's just, like, he's right there front of my head when I think of Japanese pro wrestling, even though he's not even a guy I particularly love, but he's just around all the time when I was first watching a lot of Japanese wrestling. I also love Dark Side B.B. Hulk. Mm. That's my guy. They kind of allude to here that he's no longer the dancing man. No, this is, uh, this is Dark Side. This is Blood Warriors?

28:48Baby Hulk? We're gonna go full open the voice, and Mike Spears is gonna listen to the show and just be fucking furious with us. I think this is Blood Warriors, Baby Hulk. Because I'm pretty sure it was Blood Warriors, Naruki Doi, so. Mm. Rick Knox absolutely positively counted three on a pump handle driver that was meant to be a near fall. Yes. Like, 100%. And then Susumu hit what was the mixture of, like, a J-Driller and the Awesome Kong Implant Buster,

29:19where he literally dropped Hulk right on his goddamn forehead. It looks like he, like, in the way Hulk went down, it looked like he, like, folded up, like, and, like, just rubber banded back, like, in a video game. It was crazy. I was so glad it was the finish, because if it's like, if you dropped that man on his head and he kicked out, I would have been mad. Yeah, that was crazy. Absolute insane move that he no longer has a skull anymore, I don't think. I think he's dead. But, yeah, there you go.

29:51Susumu wins. It's a slow-ish to start. I went three and a half. I have a lot of three and a half-ish or adjacent matches on this show for a lot of the same reason in that by the time they got there in the end, it rocked, but a little slow to start. Yeah. So, the sons of the British Bulldogs, Davy Richards and Harry Smith, faced the Young Bucks. I believe that is true. Davy Richards is dynamite-styled. It's a 100% factual statement.

30:18It's funny to hear Excalibur here call the Young Bucks one of the most controversial teams in wrestling, which is meant to be based off, like, their heel PWG characters. Which is that they work for TNA. Well, not anymore. They've been gone for TNA for six months now. But, yes. But, also, like, now they are the most controversial team in wrestling for many different reasons. Yeah. They've kind of always operated in that space. But, you know, this is the Young Bucks in PWG.

30:50This is it, you know? This is the best run of their career. This is the defining run of their career. This is what made the Young Bucks. This is them fighting. This is going from undercard babyface tag team to becoming, like, the most despicable heel tag team in the modern era. And, again, who was the first company to turn them heel, Liam? TNA by signing them, I think. Not even, like, as an act. Yeah. So, once again, TNA has influenced the world of professional wrestling.

31:21My favorite backstage story to the Bucks doing this character at the time was that they wanted to go by their TNA names and refused to be called the Young Bucks and stuff. But Super Dragon was like, no, that's stupid. No, that's a great fit. Super Dragon. Come on. He's like, no, you're the Young Bucks. But they would go on the mic and they would, like, demand to be called Jeremy and Max Buck. Tremendous names. They would wear their TNA gear at the same time, too. It was a good shtick. And that's what kind of got them over. Well, to be fair, the impetus of the heel turn originally was that, like, they were overpushed.

31:57And they beat Kenny Omega and Chuck Taylor in one of the DDT4 tournaments. And the PWG fans had started turning on them at that point because they really wanted Omega and Chuck Taylor to win. And then, of course, and to try and get them to be babyfaces at the end of that night, they wrestled Roderick Strong and Bryan Danielson, who murdered them, who straight up killed them in that match. They're like, all right, what's the way to get the Young Bucks cheered? They're not getting cheered.

32:27Okay, let's hit them harder. We're going to keep hitting them even harder every time until the crowd cheers them. But the crowd was just into it. And we're like, yeah, fuck the Young Bucks. Hit them as hard as possible. So that Strong and Danielson would eventually just be like, oh, we've got to do it. We've got to turn them back. So let's beat them up even more. It turns out they actually killed Matt and Nick Jackson that night. And it's quite fortunate to their very good career. They just had to keep hitting them harder until they killed them. And I remember in the Bucks book, they were talking to me how, like, they were pretty pissed off at them after that.

33:00They were trying to get them over. And they're like, yeah, but you fucking killed us. But they were trying to get them over. It is funny to think about them as a controversial team, though, in their entire history. It's just, like, the controversy was they're really good. The controversy was that they were these spot monkeys, Garrett. Yeah, but fuck off. Who couldn't work. Ugh, wrestling's dumb and stupid. Whereas now they're controversial for, like, seven different reasons. There's cultural reasons. There's brawlout reasons.

33:31There's those old same reasons. There's so many reasons people don't like the Young Bucks that are borderline irrational. Most of them are, yeah. But this match is, like, relatively fun. They just have, like, kind of a match. And it's really cool when Davey's in there. And to get the, I think half to get the heel stick over and half because Davey doesn't want to take a clean loss. And they probably can't pin Harry Smith. They cheat to win. Yeah, it's funny to see, like, Scarborough, like, have the revelation, like, halfway through the match. It's like, wait a minute. Son of Davey boy.

34:04Spiritual successor to Dynamite. My god! The new British Bulldogs. They really are. They really should have been. Do you think there's unfulfilled potential with Harry Smith? I don't know, because I think when he did go to, like, New Japan and have those big singles matches, he delivered. But it was in a very specific period of time. So, I don't know if, like, long-term he was ever going to, like, fulfill out to be, like, this tremendous pro wrestler. I think maybe if he incorporated more of his, like, real-life eccentricity, like, it could have worked.

34:40But I think when he's doing his wrestling, he's just a little too stoic. Like, but when he was young and he was doing those New Japan tours, he obviously delivered whenever he was given those big spots. Obviously, the Nakamura match is the most famous. Like, you watch him here in front of a, it's not probably, like, a pure PWG crowd, because it is tied to a convention, so there's probably a few more casual fans. But, like, they like him. They react well to him. He was also coming off the Hart Dynasty stuff, right? Yeah, he's probably not too long removed from WWE at this stage.

35:11Which was, like, quite a popular, like, you know, schmark act. Yeah, it was the one of the, you should push these people teams. Yeah. In that exact tone of voice. And it was us saying it. Wow. In that tone of voice. Because we were 10. Well, you were 14. I was, like, 20 when the show happened, so 19. Oh, yeah, but I was rewinding it three years for the WWE run. Yeah, right, good. But Excalibur says the words Daniel Bryan during this match.

35:43Disgusting. A little bit. There's a little bit of me. It's like, no, you don't, you call him Daniel Bryan. Yeah, but this is at the stage when people didn't hate the company for signing the people we loved yet, so. Oh, yeah, we felt good about the idea of these guys getting signed at this stage, didn't we? Yeah. You'll see it with the Generico stuff. Especially when, uh, said, I think Danielson is a world champion at this stage, so everyone's like, look! Look! They can treat them well. It's not a relentlessly bad company. How long was the Young Bucks double superkick called Early Onset Alzheimer's?

36:15Um, that was a PWG thing from, like, very early on. And, like, it's, like, if you go back to it, most of their moves were named by Excalibur. Yeah, there's a bunch of mood names on this show that I'll talk about, and I'm like, really? All right. Yeah, the Splash Moonsault Risky Business. Yeah, there's a Willie Mack one where he does the- it's just a little clothesline in the corner, and it's like- the name of it is My Dick Explodes? Yes. I was like, okay. It's not even that good a move. There's, uh, a bunch of them, yeah.

36:46You should have a better name for a move called My Dick Explodes than a shitty little clothesline in the corner where he sculls through the ropes. Well, normally he flies- he flies real crazy with it. This was just kind of a mid one. Mm. Uh, before we get to that match, I just mentioned Bucks pin JB with more bang for your buck after a low blow. Isn't it weird to see more bang for your buck be the finish? It really is! They don't do it as a finish anymore. Now it's a falsie. Also, I think it's better than the finish they do! I- I don't think it's better than the Indy Taker- uh, sorry, I don't think it's better than the Meltzer Driver, but I think it is better than the Indy Taker.

37:18I don't know, the Meltzer Driver never looks great. I don't know, I've- I've always enjoyed the Meltzer Driver. I think it's fun. Um, but like, I love that the Bucks have like 50 moves that they use now as like pseudo-finishes, because like sometimes they will win with the more bang for your buck, not very often. But like, if they feel like they need to establish it before a big tag match, you'll see them pick up a win with the more bang for your buck. They have the cease and desist. They have the- the sharpshooter crossface. They have, obviously, the Indy Taker, the Meltzer Driver. And then they do like, um, they had the- the Kevin Steen shoutout for a while, where they

37:50would do the Package Piledriver superkick. They have the- the ultra-finisher, the Deathbuy superkick, where they hit like 50 in a row. Hmm. Which they only bust out, like, it's their burning hammer. Which I think I'm like, the one person who has this knowledge that like, they have this crazy ultra-finish that they have only used like four times, where it's just a million superkicks in a row. Clearly they're not doing a good enough job telling that story, Liam. Like, Skyward let us down. Well, they did it in Ring of Honor, was like, the- the big one where they did it against the Briscoes at one of the- I think, Final Battle 2017 or some shit?

38:20And they like- they hit like 40 in a row. And like, I was the only person shouting, Deathbuy superkick, I know the bit!

38:27You're the one super fan. Yeah. Naruki Doi faced Willie Mack. Which was like, what a fun surprise to see on this show. Yeah, because, like, I had a humongous crush on Naruki Doi when he first showed up in TNA. I have a humongous crush on Willie Mack, so this is fine. I am like, Naruki Doi is the best looking man I've ever seen in my life. And I have watched a disproportionate number- like, I didn't watch any Dragon Gate matches during this period, but I watched every Naruki Doi match I could get my hands on. Just a look at that man!

38:58Well, he also had like, you know, some of the best matches at the time, too. Because he had like, Doi and Danielson in DDUSA. And he was the Dragon Gate ace, basically, at this stage. Yeah, he was- Again, this is where my experience is just shouting furious cases, trying to strangle us. It's like, no, he wasn't!

39:16He was one of the six, it's fine. Yeah. That was me with Yamato, I think. Where it's like, I didn't know what it was, but like, for some reason I was like, I need to watch, like, Yamato specifically. Just something about his general aesthetic I always thought was so cool. I was a doi boy. But yeah, this is kind of like, it's an alright match. Willie Mack is a little inconsistent at this point, where sometimes he'll like, bust- Also, it's not, again, it's not American Legion Post 308, so not his environment necessarily,

39:47but I thought this was like, just kind of okay. It's cool that Willie Mack got to win. Yeah, and it was a pretty good match. I enjoyed it. Yeah. Willie Mack still looks the exact same. He also does, like, the exact same moves. Like, he does the big leg drop, he does the Simone drop, nip-up, boots-alt, it's like, oh, jeez, you do your same bits, well done. To be fair, he hasn't been seen on, like, a major stage, really, since, like, the Impact run. Mm. So it's like, and that was, like, the only thing, really, in that entire, like, decade.

40:18So I feel like he hasn't had to change things up. Maybe now that, if he does start getting on, like, those Ring of Honor shows or something, he'll start to develop a little more. Yeah, my man has a right to hit his same four spots in every match. Yeah, well, you see the reaction it got on, like, Dark and Rampage, because people hadn't seen them, so. Mm. Why not at that point? There was some juggalos in the crowd who did whoop whoops, and then the crowd chanted shut the fuck up with them. How do you feel about this? I'm with the crowd. How do you think Mike Tenet feels about this?

40:48He was fighting the fans saying shut the fuck up in his Hatchet Man makeup. Yeah, as a close personal friend of the juggalos, as we've discovered, Mike Tenet is defending their honor. Yeah. There was a cannonball with Willie in the corner that Willie just took an insane bump for, and then Willie wins with his sit-out powerbomb that he very nearly lost Doi on. He very nearly actually threw him over his own head before he dragged him back down and sit-out powerbombing him. Yeah. I like that both Doi and Willie Mack do the crazy cannonballs.

41:20Oh yeah, the Doi boys do. And Mack does the, like, shooting star one. Mm. Which also Chris Cadillac did on this show, so. Chris Cadillac didn't land on his feet, though. He's not as good as Willie Mack. Yeah, Chris Cadillac's one is pretty crazy, though, because it actually is, like, he does, like, the shooter into it. Yeah. Crazy stuff. Cool cannonballs. Good moves. All right, well, how about you talk about the next match? I'm just gonna head off for a bit. So, Peter Avalon, Demas, Ray Roas, and Hollywood from Rinka King face Cedric Alexander, B-Boy, Candice LeRae, and Masquerita Dorada, the highlight of which was far and away Masquerita

41:52Dorada. The shit this dude did in this match. Insane. There's always been, like, you know, the discussion around minis, and, like, I feel like online, the big discussion has always been, like, oh, Masquerita Dorada, he's the good one. He's the really, really, really good one. Yeah, like, he's the best wrestler in this match, and this match has Cedric Alexander in it. Which is funny, because when Cedric Alexander eventually did show backup in PWG in 2015 against Everett and Lee, and that match got, like, this, like, massive explosion of popularity,

42:23and, like, it won, like, the PWG boards match of the year and stuff, the story of it was, like, three debuts. But, like, Cedric had been here before in this. Yeah, this one-off, random, eight-person tag team match. Hmm. Yeah, everything Dorada looks, does, is insane. He's basically only in the ring with Demas. There's a moment where Demas is just, like, throwing him around. He does, like, three rotations in the air. The bumps Dorada takes are absolutely insane. Hmm. As yet, he tosses, he does, like, a beel across the ring, and then he does, like, seven spirals

42:58in the air and falls, and it's the craziest thing you'll ever see in your life. Yeah. Yeah, he does multiple, uh, rotation Hurrican Rannas around Demas. He also teased the dive and then did a superhero pose, so I'm like, oh, everyone stole that from him, huh? Yep. Uh, my favorite one was he did, like, the Senton-style jump-off from the top rope to the outside and then Rann-ed him. Hmm. That was insane. Like, his Rannas got a huge reaction? That one didn't get as big a reaction as I thought it should, frankly. I don't think half the people saw what it was.

43:29Yeah. Um, my favorite spot, despite all that, in this match is Cedric Alexander's corner dropkick. Hmm. Yeah, even here, I was thinking, like, oh, even in 2012, Cedric was great. Yeah, he always had it. I really wish that was a guy who was making money in any other company. Yeah, he's one of two people who, every time he did something cool on the show, I was a little bit sad. No guesses who the other person in the main event was! Ah, was it Super Dragon? Yeah, very depressed that he did that big comeback match when PWG came back and hasn't been seen since.

44:00It wasn't even a match, it was an angle. Yeah, not even a match, it was an angle, yeah. Yeah, you know, the stable of Super Dragon, Flamita, and Black Taurus. Hmm. For one night only. Which was definitely just the, like, let's get some hype, some news on this show for our first show back. Yep. Uh, there was also that other guy in this match, which the crowd chanted, fuck you at him immediately, which I did at least somewhat appreciate. Mm-hmm. Whose schtick in this particular period has become even more difficult to watch. Yeah. At least when he's doing, like, the 70s schtick in fuckin' WSX, it's like, alright, I have to look at him, which is unfortunate enough in the first place.

44:38But at least he's not doing things that invoke things he did in the future, and there's not fuckin' commentary about it that's... Oh, god, oh, god, commentary in this match. I'm just curious, will we have to review... Okay, we avoid the best match of that man's career, in which he is in, like, 3% of it. Hmm. Which happens in 2014. How, like, we keep, we keep reviewing shows he's on, because we're doing Lucha Underground 2!

45:09Because he's on everything, because he's always available. Oh, because no one wants to hire him, but he's just fuckin' everywhere, and he won't leave us alone! No, no, he won't. I even Googled to see how many matches he has on Lucha Underground, and it's an absolute fuckin' shit ton. And I'm like, no, he's probably the most guy who wrestles on that show! Because that's the problem, it's not just that he's on these shows, he probably has the most matches in WSX, and he probably has the most matches in GFW as well. So he's just constantly on these shows! Yep. It is our, it is our punishment.

45:41And then we'll just get to him on TNA 2. Mm-hmm. No. And don't worry, the podcast will be dead by then. No! No! Um, uh, Candice pinned that man with the moonsault. Sure does. Defeated Hollywood from Ringkake. Uh, Blood Warriors, Shima, and Ricochet face the Rocknest Monsters combination of Johnny Goodtime and Johnny Yuma. Uh, I like this, and I really like Rocknest Monsters, I have a Johnny Yuma t-shirt around here somewhere. Mm-hmm. But, I think this is really long. Yeah. The funny thing is, I wrote in my notes, this match is quite dry, and that was like 15 minutes in, and then they finally immediately started doing stuff as if they responded to me writing, this match is quite dry in my notes.

46:22Yeah. It's just, it's real long, just cut that like first 10 minutes and you're fine. Yeah, because I think this was 22, I want to say. And as he said, if it was a tight 15, it would be a lot better, and if it was a tighter like 12, 13, it would be even better again. Well, you're not going to tell Shima how long to go. I am. Shima, go a tight 13, please. No, he says, and then proceed to have a 40 minute match. Oh, well, there's nothing I can do now. Um, craziest thing in this whole match is Ricochet doing a moonsault that keeps going and goes into a back senton.

46:58That would trick the AI. Yeah, I wouldn't even be able to do the moonsault, so. He is a freak of nature. Especially at this point, when he was like half the weight that he is now, and is a Gumby man even more so. Yeah, he's in that 2005 AJ Styles period here, isn't he? Yeah, 100%. Um, it's like, I will die. I will die when I do everything. But, um, you know, um, I forget what their tag name is. It's like the Mohawk Mohicans or some shit like that.

47:28Shima and Ricochet? Yeah. But they were billed as blood warriors here, so. Yeah, but like, they had like an actual name sometime. Hmm. Again, Mike Spears and K-Slow screaming, screaming at their podcast feeds. So lucky they're not patron subscribers. We should, we should lure them into, like, you want to correct us, huh? Huh? Give us some money, huh, Mike? Huh? Yeah, we're gonna put this in the highest pay tier. Um, I, yeah, I'm a big fan of Rock Test Monsters. I've always enjoyed them, but I felt like they've never really broken out above this level.

48:01Well, those were, again, the kind of guys who fell off in the super indie period of PWG, aren't they? They stuck around a little longer than most, because they were around when, like, Gargano and, uh, Taylor came back and started teaming, but that was, like, the end of their run. Hmm. So Colt sounded, like, literally upset when they, he did a, Rickshade did a 630 and they broke up the pin. He's like, come on. There's a bit of that in the last three matches. Yeah, there was a poison runner by good time that he also spiked himself on his head, which

48:35I thought was an impressive achievement. There was some crazy poison runners on this show. There was a lot of poison runners on this show. Which, par for the course when you have Puck in the main event, I feel. Yeah, well, he did three in a row, one of which was, I guess, countered, but countered in a way that was interesting. But Super Dragons bump on that? On his head. Like, this was pre-everyone also doing Spanish Flies and Canadian Destroyers. This is, uh, people don't understand that the poison runner was the move. Yeah, so this, this is, like, peak just poison runner, because, you know, when you get to

49:072015-ish, everyone's doing Destroyers and Spanish Flies, too, so you have three moves everybody is spamming. Yeah, people don't do the poison runner as much anymore. This is peak poison runner era. Before this was obviously, like, the Shining Wizard era. Hmm. Then, like, after this you get the Cutter and the Super Kick, and then it's like, now we're just in the point of parody where it's just, like, the same three moves. Yeah, PD hadn't retired yet, you see, so. Yeah. People were respecting it. Yeah. Rocknest Monsters hit a top rope DVD of their own partner onto Ricochet for the win.

49:40That's classic Rocknest Monsters right there. Could've, Shima's sure as hell hasn't taken that fall. No. Not at this time. He would do it in Gleet. Uh, Masaki Motuzuki faced Roderick Strong. I was so excited for this match, and then it did not reach my levels, because, like, this is, to people I consider to be, like, the best of their era, Roderick Strong was in my, like, top ten of all time. Mm. But, they just kinda didn't reach the, like, they kind of were, like, doing, like, a slow epic build, but then they didn't peak it right, and they didn't take the easy way out of just,

50:12like, kicking each other and chopping each other for ten minutes. Yeah, which they did little bits of it, and it was when the match was at its best, when they just hit each other. Take the easy way out. Which is kind of, which is what you want from these two. Yeah, if you picture a Roddy versus Mochi match in your head, you're like, they just hit each other, right? That's all they do. They just hit each other. Yeah. It's a real shame that we're not gonna cover, at least not in the immediate future, the era of Roderick Strong being, like, the best wrestler in the world in this company, but we're gonna get little tastes. Not that he was bad, but that bizarre six-month period, not bizarre, but that six-month period

50:46where he was like, I'm going to go from a very good wrestler to the best wrestler. Oh, 2014 to 2015, Roderick Strong can be put up there with anyone. Because not only was he, like, still as great as he's always been, he had, like, character and was, like, a perfect heel at the same time. And he had the perfect foil at the time, too, of Kyle O'Reilly. Yeah, it's interesting to hear Excalibur call Mochizuki the Elder Statesman of Dragon Gate even here. Yeah, and now he even more so is. Yeah, it's like, in 2012 he's saying that when he was, like, 40, and now he's 50, and

51:19he still is? Also, he may even be better than he was, like, at this point. Yeah, run this back. Oh, God. Roddy, please leave. There is part of this that I think a lot of these matches would be better if they were in Reseda, where it's like, the crowd were pretty good in the show, but they weren't, like, super invested and they would have to be earned. But Reseda would, like, add a star to every match. Yeah. As opposed to this, where it's like, you really did have to work your way up to earning that crowd response. And I think most of the matches got it, but it took him a while, and maybe if the matches

51:50were shorter and faster, it might have been a little better, but... Well, I think because you can tell that for a fact when the opener got over almost immediately because they were just doing shit. Hmm. Mochizuki kicked Roderick Strong in the head a bunch, and then he won. Yes. This is, like, the only, like, DG win. Poor Dragon Gate. Well, give one to Jimmy Susumu as well. Fair enough, he beat a Dragon Gate guy. That doesn't count, no. It is also a DG win over a GG guy. Fair play to DG for actually playing bowl here, too.

52:23I think this was toward the end of the GG USA run, wasn't it? There was still a couple more years. What did it go that long? Yeah, like 2014. Because Ricochet was open the Freedom Gate champion in, like, 2013. Maybe it was just 2013, but there was still another year. But, because WrestleMania weekend was their final show that was Ricochet and Gargano, I think. Oh, on 2013? From the Freedom Gate. Yeah. So, they still had another year. Because I would have went to one of their WrestleMania weekend shows this year, 2012,

52:55as a real DG USA fan who has been to DG USA events. Why didn't you go to the PWG show? Was there one that WrestleMania weekend?