Which Voice Should You Listen To: Change Your Body, or Embrace It? – In Session with Marc David

Introduction

0:01Welcome to the Psychology of Eating podcast, where food and body challenges are the doorway into a happier, healthier life. Now, here's your host, eating psychology expert and founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating, Mark David.

0:25Welcome everybody. I'm Mark David, founder of the Institute for the Psychology of Eating.

Host Introduction

0:31We're back in the Psychology of Eating podcast. I'm with James today. Welcome, James. Hey, Mark. Good to be here. Thanks for having me. Thanks, my friend. So here's the deal. If you're tuning in for the first time to the podcast, James and I are meeting for the first time. And the idea is to have a session together and seeing if we can make some good things happen in relationship with food and body. So, James, if you could wave your magic wand and get whatever you wanted when it came to your relationship with food, body, weight, what would that be for you?

1:03For me, that would be to, number one, stop giving in to emotional eating. Um, I have a lot. Well, I'll, I'll answer this way to me. My therapist have this alter ego that we that's within me. We call him little Jimmy and little Jimmy loves Friday night pizza parties with ice cream and pizza and all that junk food. And whenever there's like an emotional trigger, he likes to come out and say, I need attention

1:37and I need all that food. So I would love to be able to find a way to tell little Jimmy that adult James has things in control and an adult James can control and make good food decisions. And little Jimmy can come out to play when it's, when it's time. Right. So to be disciplined, to be able to tell little Jimmy that it's okay. If, cause like I have a certain weight goal and we can talk about that, but I know it's

2:08not forever.

Weight Loss Goals

2:09I just want to be disciplined enough to lose this little bit of weight that I've struggled with. We can get into that as well. I feel like, um, maintenance for me is pretty easy. I've been at the same weight, honestly, for most of my adult life. I haven't really struggled with obesity or gaining a lot of weight. I've kind of just sat in this one little weight range and, but there's a goal that I've wanted to achieve and I've almost done it three times and we can talk about that, but I would love

2:43to find a healthy relationship with food and I would love to find a way to get the body that I've always wanted, um, lose this fat around my obliques, my lower back and my lower abs. And, um, and I, and I will share this too. I had a recent revelation and it's, it's really beautiful. Um, I just got back from Italy, uh, two weeks ago and while I was there, like I had enough

3:13time to really look at my life and a very, in a, in a profound way.

Inspirational Moments

3:18And when I came back, there's this TV show I really love. It's called Queer Eye. It's on Netflix, you know? And what I love about that show is how they tell the people they work with that, you know, you're, you're fine as you are, you're lovable, you're good as you are. You don't need to have this or that in order to love yourself. And after all the years of watching that show, I finally like got the message. And since I've been back, I've been really practicing a lot of affirmations.

3:50You know, I am lovable. I love my body as it is. I'm worthy of love as I am right now. And I've really been feeding into that type of energy more than the, there's, there's also been a very harsh inner critic that I've been battling pretty much most of my adult

Inner Critic

4:08life as well. There's a brutal inner critic that loves to tell me really hateful messages and, and it's been a lot of battle, but so the magic wand would help me find a healthy relationship with food, help me to be more disciplined, help me to realize that I'm really not missing out when I maybe delay gratification for specific foods and that it's going to be okay. So how much weight do you want to lose?

4:39It is about, it's not too, I don't know if it's relative, I know, but it's about 15, 20 pounds. 15, 20 pounds. And you want to lose it from a certain part of your body. You're not just wanting to lose weight globally on your body. Yeah. It's where, well, it's typically for men, you know, it's, it's that inner tube, I call it, you know, from your obliques, that just that middle section of your body, it's kind of where it goes around mainly. Yeah.

Emotional Eating

5:08And, and, and just to help me understand in your mind, where did you get the 15 or 20 pound notion that you think that there's 15 or 20 pounds worth of extra body weight there? So, um, because here's how I know this, um, what during the pandemic, one of the things that I always wanted to do was to have what I call the lifeguard physique. I don't want to be a bodybuilder. I don't want to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. I like that very gymnastic lifeguard kind of physique, you know, um, very lean, very muscular,

5:45but not like huge. Uh, so during the pandemic, I finally like worked with this online trainer and I lost that amount of weight three times. So I, November, 2020, I got down to 136, uh, February, then I gained it back. And then February, 2021, I got down to one 35 and he did back again. And then, uh, let's see, September, 2021, I got down to one 37.

6:19And when I took the photos of myself, which I was doing as part of the work with this, uh, trainer, I could see the way my body looked. And it was like, wow. Uh, one of my friends said, I look like an Olympian, you know, and I felt good. My clothes felt amazing, but what would happen is like, there, there's an emotional event with each one of these, uh, losses and then not the loss really, but the weight gain when me gaining, gain up, gaining it back.

6:49But that's how I know it's like, it's, it's around this one 35 weight range where I look the way I want to look. And I'm around one 50, one 52 right now. So how old are you? I'm 50, 50. Are you in relationship? No. And just, when did you start deciding I want to shapeshift my body? I want this body to look different. Like when did that happen? It's been a long time, probably decades.

7:21Um, I, I, I'm, I'm totally okay. Sharing that I'm sober. I'm sober 21 and a half years. So I'll, I'll, all drugs and alcohol. Um, and I, I think that's really, really when it started. So it's been a while. Um, and I'm by no means, like if most people who see me tell me I look great, like all my yoga teachers that I practice with people at the gym, but you know, I, I want a little bit more and I know I can do it, but I, I've really just struggled with this emotional eating

7:54and it delays the goal and just keeps putting it out further and further in front of me. Um, so I, I think I see the challenge that, that you've outlined.

Self Reflection

8:07So here it is. I I've had this way I've discovered this, this, this way that I could lose the weight, but then emotional eating comes in and then the weight comes back. So like, okay, so how do I have my goal? How do I have the goodies? And it sounds like having the goodies means I'm not emotionally eating. And that's going to take me to where I want to go. So we're going to, we're going to, we're going to get to that. Um, but I still have a couple of questions to ask before I think I can be of use to you.

8:41So when you gain, when you, okay, so you lose the weight. Three sentences or less. How do you lose that weight when you've lost it three times? How did you do that? I was, I was waking up first thing in the morning and working. Now I was getting 12,000 steps a day and I was limiting the amount of what I call binges or cheat meals.

9:09And then you lose the weight. And then something happens, something, something, something triggers you and you want some food. Yes. Does anything particularly trigger you that you've noticed? The, so the, the events that I have here, uh, that I, cause I thought I knew you were going to ask me. So I was ready. Um, the, um, first time I think it was around Thanksgiving and I went insane on the holidays.

9:41So Thanksgiving came and I just never stopped. Then I lost it again. The second time, February, 2021, there was a death of a friend of mine that just came sideways that I didn't know she was sick and she passed away. And even now, like the emotion comes up. Um, and I just really struck me by surprise and I turned the food for comfort there. And then the third time I was like so close September, 2021, I got laid off from my job

10:15and I was like so close to the goal. And then like, it was just like, well, forget that. So, I mean, these are pretty significant life events. I mean, except for Thanksgiving, I don't know, but the other two were definitely huge life events that definitely, um, sidelined me. Yeah, sure. But, but, but just one little fine point, it can also be just a bad day at work. Yeah. Um, to, you know, or like, ah, I didn't accomplish my goals at work.

10:47I feel bad. And let me soothe myself with that. Um, so what do you tell yourself when you're speaking to yourself and I, okay, I want to lose this weight. In fact, I've lost it before. And how is, how do you tell yourself life's going to be different? What's going to be different for you? How do you convince yourself that you even want to put in this effort to lose the weight? What's the, what's the benefit for you? I want to do this because I want to lose this weight because, uh, I want to lose this weight

11:24because this is for me, like a bucket list thing in life. Um, I've always wanted to look that way. And, and I think it's an esteemable goal. It's a worthy goal. And it's not a goal for anyone else, but I mean, I'm not, I'm not wanting to look this way for a woman or anyone in my family. It's, it's for me. It really, truly earnestly is for me. Um, but there are benefits, you know, um, but, um, I think, you know, like the way if like

11:59I go to the beach and I want to like get in the water and take off my t-shirt, like just be like. I think too, like, and I admire people who have achieved that goal, like who achieve, have achieved that certain type of physique. Cause it's not easy to do. If it was easy, everybody could do it. It takes a certain amount of discipline and a certain amount of dedication to achieve that goal. So when I tell myself like, um, you know, it's, it's an admirable goal.

12:35It's like making, I don't know, a million dollars or something. It's like, there's a lot of things that go into it to achieve it. And if you did it, then you have something you can display. Like I did it. And then also like, I love to help other people too. Like I, I teach yoga. I was a personal trainer back in the day. If I could share anything with others to help them. I, I love doing that. I love to, to be a teacher and share with others. I don't know if I'm hating on the question exactly right, but that's my answer.

13:09So it sounds like in my language, based on what I heard you say, if you achieve this goal, you will feel good about yourself. Like I achieved this goal. I shop for this target. I aim for it. I work for it and I got it. And it's a goal that I'm, I'm, I'm saying I'm gonna feel good about myself. Yes. So did you have those moments when you lost the weight? You lost the weight three times. Did you have moments where you said to yourself, damn, James, this feels good.

13:43Oh yeah, definitely. Oh yeah. I saw the photos and I was like, when I see them now, I'm like, how did I do that? Wow.

13:55Okay. So.

King Archetype

14:02Let me just outline some of the pieces of the puzzle here. And see if, see if we can make some headway here. So. There's this one piece of the puzzle, which is like, Hey, I want to do this because it's for me. And it's going to make me feel good about myself.

14:20And. I have gotten there several times, at least in the last handful of years. And I did feel good about myself. So understandable goal. Next. There is this piece in the background. That's been there for some amount of time called like the harsh critic. So.

14:42When I've got a harsh critic. And I wake up every morning, it might as well be like another person in your bed. You wake up in the morning and there's some, there's somebody next to you going, ah, you're too fat. Ah, you got to lose weight here. Ah, you're not good enough. Hey, you're going to be a lot happier if you lose this weight. But right now. Ah, this isn't good enough. So that critic. As you said, yourself is intense.

15:15So. The challenge for me here in what your goal is, is that there's a couple of parts of you working towards that goal. There's the part of you. I'm going to assume that's just very pure. I was like, hey, I want a hotter body.

15:36I didn't want a hotter body. And that's going to make me feel good about myself. I understand that. We know things. We know many different things that if we could have them, feel them or experience them, we're going to feel good about ourselves. And there's this part of you that's a harsh critic. And if I've got a harsh critic, oftentimes the only way to shut up that harsh critic. I think is to do what that critic wants me to do. Y'all ain't perfect. You better be perfect.

16:07Oh, my God, I got to be perfect. You're not making enough money. Oh, my God, I better need to make more money because if I make more money, I'll shut up the bad critic and then all the bad voices go away. So I'm not sure. Literally, I'm just not sure who's driving the goal here. Now, granted, both those voices, I think, are active. I just don't know who's more dominant. Because if that critic is more dominant, which it can be, then I'm taking action from a place

16:49of I'm not good enough. I got to shut up this critic. And the only way I shut up this critic is to achieve my goal. But you know something, when I got a critic who's constantly talking, I'm going to want to find a way to feel better in the moment.

17:08Because for you to have your ultimate weight loss goal and that ultimate body like that's going to really shut up the critic. But, you know, we got to be able to shut up the critic on any given day. Sometimes, and one of the best ways we can feel pleasure and shut out the voices, at least temporarily, is to eat.

17:31So it's possible for you, possible that, yeah, your emotional eating could be triggered by life events, intense ones. It could be triggered by just, hey, holiday dinner, like, well, lots of great food, or just, you know, basic bad day at work, and I just want to eat. So it can also be triggered by, you know, something, I'm not at my goal, and I don't feel good about myself. And it's almost as if we're more sensitive, we're less resilient, because that critic is

18:09so intense, that in the moment, it's just easier to turn to food. And sometimes, it's not even the critic that seems to be triggering it. Anything can trigger it, as you say. But oftentimes, lurking in the background is the critic. So that's just something that I'm aware of.

18:33Hold on to that for a second. I'm just trying to piece some things together. So emotional eating.

18:41I'm a big fan of emotional eating. I just want you to know that. And what I mean by that is you and I are emotional creatures.

18:51We're emotional people. And we happen to be eaters. And you put that together, we're emotional eaters. So, you know, you go out on a date, that's an emotional eating affair. You're at a celebratory dinner, that's an emotional eating affair. You have emotion, you bring emotion to the table. Yeah, I could have a bad day at work. And if I make myself a good meal or go to a favorite restaurant, I feel better. So feel bad, eat food, feel better. There's nothing inherently, inherently wrong with that.

19:26I think that's important. Like, we're emotional people. And the opposite of emotional eating would be, I think, unemotional eating, which doesn't sound very fun.

19:38No. So we're going to bring emotion to the table. And obviously, things can go south for us if eating is my only strategy to regulate unwanted emotions. That's when it becomes problematic. It's like, oh, eating is my go-to thing, and that's all I do. So yeah, if I don't have anything else to help regulate myself, then I'm going to turn to food. So what I'm saying is, I don't know that emotional eating is the thing that gets in the

20:14way for you.

20:16I think it seems like it. Because wait a second, here I am. I got the body I want. And then boom, I'm eating.

20:28So really, what's happening there is in that moment, in those moments, you don't have other ways yet that are consistent for you to say, okay, what else? What else can I do in this moment other than turn to food? So part of that, I have found that people will often have most success in crossing over

20:59that bridge. Like you talked about already that you've worked on a therapy, like, hey, there's this like young part of you that just like, okay, I'm ready to party. I want my food. And I need to somehow communicate to this part of me that, oh, wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. So who's communicating to that other part of you?

21:25And I think the person that has to communicate to that part of you is, for you, I want to use the king archetype. Okay. And the king archetype, because here you are, you're 50, 50 is when the king archetype, I believe, really takes hold in a man.

21:45It's the decade where you are ready to sit on your throne more. Now, in my experience, the king archetype, the king isn't sitting around in his chair on his throne and saying, hey, do y'all love me? Am I good enough? Is this okay? Did you see me eat that? Is my body okay?

22:10No, the king knows who he is. He's gone through some life. He's gathered some wisdom, and he's secure in who he is. And from that place of security, he goes about his business, and his business is essentially giving his gifts and connecting to the power and the mission and the purpose within him. So that's, that's, to me, a good king. Now, yeah, kings have fun.

22:42King wants to go on the hunt. King wants to have some excitement. King wants to do good things. King wants to work on himself. King wants to feel fit. Absolutely. That's your prerogative. It's your kingdom.

22:55That kingdom starts in your mind. Kingdom of a man starts in his mind. So part of it is kind of surveying my mind, looking at all the people in my kingdom. Okay, here's this little part of me that likes to party and wants to reach for food. Completely understandable, by the way. Okay, so it's the king in you that has to talk to that part of you. And I think it would be helpful for you to define for yourself,

23:30other than my goal with my body, what are the most important things in my life? If changing your body is the most important thing, chances are it's going to be difficult for you.

23:50And the reason why I say that is because it has been difficult for you.

23:56Harder, harder to lose weight as we get older, harder to shapeshift the body. You could do it. You could definitely do it. But it's harder to shapeshift the body as it gets older. It becomes a bigger ask. It takes more energy and effort. It just does, as you know. So it then takes a lot of life force. Okay, well, if I want to do this, I got to be really on it with food. I got to be on it with my emotional relationship with food. I got to be on it with my fitness. And you don't have to answer this question now,

24:30but I would ask myself the question, is that really where I want to put all my energy?

24:38And what else? What else is there in life that's more important than that?

24:48Now, if that's the most important thing, then you got to marshal all your forces. But I'm just calling into question if that's the most important thing.

25:00And the reason I call it into question is because body is an interesting cookie. You know, it has its own wisdom.

25:11It has its own. It's it's we want to have our way with the body.

25:18Body, I want you to do this. I want you to be muscular and strong and trim and lean. Yeah, I'm with you. Feel the same way. Body, I want you to be healthy. Body, I want you to be disease free. I know what I want for my body. And quite frankly, I don't want it to age. I don't want it to die. Unless I say so.

25:41We don't have much say in. We have less say in all those things than we think. We do have say in it. But sometimes it's for these brief windows of time. You could eat the healthiest food in the universe. You could take care of yourself like amazingly well and still get a disease out of nowhere. So body's a mystery. The body dictates on its own terms. So I'm just listening to your story.

26:11And I'm I'm trying to put myself in the voice of your body and I hear your body going.

26:18OK, we're going to lose this weight, but then we're going to put it back on.

26:23I've heard and you've said, you know, you've been pretty consistent in your weight over the years. Your body has its place that it likes to hang out.

26:35Now, you know, from experience that if you put in certain effort, you can make the body do something different. So, you know that. And it's true, we can. And it's a big ask of the body. If you want to create a very different body from the body that your body tends to want to be. Your body tends to want to be the body that it is right now. That's just its agenda.

27:05It's no judgment. It just is what your body does. It's not your preference. I get it. I don't want my body to do this. I want to do something else. It's not doing this. What do I got to do?

27:19So I think what you're discovering is that it's hard work. To get your body to where you want it to be.

27:29And I'm wanting you to leave here asking the question of, is that hard work worth it to me? So to really re-examine, you know, you said you finally got the message from Queer Eye, which is like, you're lovable. I suspect, I suspect, I suspect that if you knew that you were lovable as you are, the energy that goes into shape-shifting your body to wanting it to be different would be different.

28:10You'd still have your preference.

28:16So preferences are beautiful. They're wonderful. I love them. It's a matter of how much we take our preference and put it on our altar and make it something that we worship and make it the most important thing ever in the world, which will save us and save us from our own self, save us from our own critic. So that's what's kind of got my attention for you, you know, because I can say to you, okay, let's just focus on emotional eating.

28:52And if we focused on emotional eating, then we would look at, you know, really helping yourself create strategies other than food that you can turn to.

29:05And then that becomes a practice. So that's the best way I've seen to unwind unwanted emotional eating is, okay, take a cold shower, listen to music, watch funny videos, whatever it is you can do, make the phone call to a friend, do some deep breathing, do some yoga, put on some headphones, blast some music. So it's learning those tricks, which is really advancing yourself and saying, okay, I'm learning.

29:45I'm a learning, growing human being. And I'm learning other ways to regulate my emotions, my unwanted emotions, other than food.

29:55That takes its own kind of work. I think it's good work.

30:01I don't like emotionally eating to the point where I don't feel good or where I think, oh, wow, wait a second, that's going to cause me to gain weight that I don't want to gain. And so I don't like that. So I have to look at ways, okay, how do I regulate my emotions other than food?

30:20But if that's being driven by, if my motivation for working on my emotional eating is because my body's not acceptable, I'm creating the conditions for emotional eating.

30:38You see what I'm saying? So my body's unacceptable voice is kind of like lurking underneath. It could be very strong. So that's kind of my take on what's happening for you. And let me just pause there and see, like, what's useful for you here?

Conclusion

31:03What's landing for you? Any thoughts that you're having?

31:07I think you nailed it. I think the inner critic is very strong within me and has been for a long time. Um, I've had the wins, but I think, I think when you said that, when you were talking about achieving the body as being the penultimate goal for me, like, I think there's a lot of truth in that. I've been, I've been obsessed with it for, especially since the pandemic, you know, when I first lost the weight,

31:42it's been an obsession and like, why can't I do it? Um, and everything you said just rings really true. Like, I don't find anything within me, like really saying, no, that's incorrect. Um, so, and, and what the kind of your conclusion, I think is where I've been really is the path that I feel has been emerging, which is the path of, you know, like loving my body as it is and just being okay with the journey and just accepting myself as I am.

32:21Um, but I also love how you said it's okay for me to want to change and have that preference and still work towards that. Like that's, that's good. And, and, um, and then all the stuff about emotional eating, I think is, is right on too. So, you know, it sounds paradoxical, but to me, if I could just wave my magic wand and, and, and change how your inner world works, what I would change is that, okay, you have your preference and you're learning how to love and your, and accept your body as it is.

33:04And as you get stronger and more secure and more King-like in, I accept myself. A King doesn't sit on his throne and say, well, I really don't accept myself because then he doesn't accept his position. He doesn't accept his authority. He doesn't accept his own dignity. He doesn't accept his own journey. He doesn't accept his own body. So it's a King's job to accept. Here's me. Here's my lot in life. Because as you accept that, then if you want to go about the business of changing something,

33:41you're not changing it from a place of, I hate myself. This is not good enough. You're not good enough, James. This has to shift. Then you could love yourself. That voice is over. So more of you is actually available to the preference that you want. You have, to me, a better chance of getting there because once that critic is largely decommissioned,

34:12the critic's always going to be there. It's just about decommissioning it. So it has, instead of, you know, 100% power, it has like five or 10% power. Oh, there's my inner critic. Okay, whatever. Been there, done that. Not interested. I'm learning to love and accept this body as it is. That gives you a power.

34:40Because then your life doesn't depend on shape-shifting your body. Your happiness doesn't depend on it. And even once you get there, once you get there, you will be more secure. I think what's happened to you in the past when you've been successful, you've gotten there, you've manipulated your body into becoming the body that you wanted, but the inner shifts really didn't take hold for you.

35:12Totally agree with that. So what I'm saying is, let's do the inner shift first. And the inner shift is, my preference will no longer be driven by self-attack, self-hate, self-judgment, self-criticism. I'm not good enough. I'm going to focus on, I love and accept myself. So it's almost like you're putting the challenge to yourself to create this body, putting it on hold, not throwing it out.

35:45You still want it, you still honor it, you still want it, and for now, I'm going to work on accepting this body as it is, and then see what shows up from there. See what gets in the way of that.

36:01Because that's actually harder work than shape-shifting the body, but it's more sustainable once you get there. You're going to feel good about yourself, and if your body changes, great, and you'll be able to sustain it because you won't have the critic in you that's throwing you off balance. And causing a certain kind of insecurity that, oh, as soon as I'm not feeling right, I'm reaching for food.

36:36And that overrides all my efforts.

36:42So I think if you're going to put first things first, to me, first things first is, how do I, maybe for the first time, learn to love and accept my body, which is really loving and accepting me. And that's, that's an interesting journey.

37:08It is. Yeah. So part of it is taking the stress off of your goal. Taking the immediacy from it.

37:23Taking the urgency from it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And taking some of the power from it that it doesn't deserve. It's a preference. And once you have that body, yeah, I like this. But it's not life or death.

37:42It's not emotional life or death. It's not soul life or death.

37:48If you get it, great. If you sustain it, great. And if you don't, we're good.

37:57I love that. Yes. So how are there times when you're not at your ideal body that you just kind of forget about it all and you really enjoy being in your body? Yeah. Yeah. I, like I mentioned earlier, Italy was amazing because I wasn't, that was the farthest thing from my mind.

38:35I was enjoying, I was in Sicily and in Rome. And when I was in Rome by myself, I was just like with myself, like enjoying the history. There was like no limits on the food and honestly, and I was walking so much and just enjoying it, savoring every moment. There was never once that there was any voice going, oh, you better not eat that.

39:05Don't have a cannoli. You don't have a gelada. That was never happening. I was just loving it and just, just enjoying my time so much. And there, there was like a, there was, it was a whisper. I would say like, I, like I mentioned, I was, I did walk a lot. I mean, one day I walked 15 miles because it's just so much fun to walk around and so much to see. Like I couldn't get enough, but I wasn't doing that to off bounce the food.

39:38It was just like, I was just wanting to see more and experience as much as I could while I was there. Ah, I love it. Italy's great for that, by the way. Did you gain weight when you were there? No. Isn't that interesting? Yes. That's very interesting. That's very interesting. It just proves that when you're, when you are, when you James are your most natural self, your natural self is here I am. And I'm a guy that likes to enjoy life in my, in my purest expression.

40:10I love enjoying life. And you know something I can enjoy life. I can enjoy my body. I can eat this. I can eat that. I could take a walk. I can take a long walk. I could just take it all in and I'm good. This is good. And your body stays where it is. It holds steady because it's, it's able to reach its highest expression because you're, you personally are in your highest expression, which is I'm free.

40:45I'm free of the encumbrances of don't eat this, eat that. You should stay away from this. Maybe you need to exercise. You ate this. And when that dialogue is gone, what's left is you being joyful and what's left is you discovering. And what's left is your body kind of treats you well. So it would be interesting to start to see how you can bring a little bit of that home to Los Angeles with you. Just, just how you can kind of capture some of that state because it's an interstate.

41:20And yeah, I, I was so inspired and part of what I did, you know, there's, there's so many museums and so much art and stuff to see. And like, I had lost touch with how much I enjoy doing that. And I've like, forgot, like, Oh wait, LA has all these great museums too. And so I went online and like, um, found some and like, I'm actually going to go to one this weekend. I like, I already have a ticket and everything to go see this Andy Warhol exhibit, you know,

41:53an artist who I've always loved. So I want to take more of that because I've, dude, that was one of the key takeaways was like, I would, I would, I called it like pandemic mode. I was, you know, I worked from home. I was, I'm isolated a lot, but I was like in this foreign country, just exploring by myself, absolutely no problems. So any excuse is gone because like, you can't use that anymore.

42:25You went to a foreign country and traveled and did all this amazing stuff by yourself. Why can't you do that? But, and because LA is so big, I could literally go to, you know, the Valley and it's like being in another country, not to disparage the Valley, but, um, you know, you get what I'm saying, you know? So I do want to take that. I think, I think you're right on the money there. Like I, I felt really alive. I felt really at peace and just really enjoyed that time so much.

42:56That what you just described, I believe is what the biggest part of you believes will happen when you have the body that you want. When I have the body that I want, I will have the life that I want. I think that's the deeper wish in there. The body that I want, that I desire, that's my preference will give me the life that I want.

43:27That's very perceptive. Uh, because the thing that I also realized, I told my, my trainer at the gym, I was like, I, I didn't make the, like conscious connection that I was withholding love to myself until I had achieved that body. I didn't realize that's what I was doing, but I think that's exactly what I was doing. I was putting it off and saying, no, no, no, no. You can't have that until you have achieved this body.

43:57And it's just, it's just nonsense. It is. It is nonsense because you see, you experience that you can actually have the life that you want without having the body that you want. And sure, you can still want the body that you want. Fine. You just other things you want to, so you can still have the life that you want. One is not dependent on the other. That's the key. That's where you take back the power and then have the start to live the life you want.

44:29That you imagine the body's going to give you. And part of that life is just allowing yourself to be free and allowing yourself to be the real you and saying, I'm comfortable here. I feel good about myself. And I'm just, I'm going to be an open person. And I'm going to, I'm going to explore my creativity and I'm going to explore my interests and my passions and the things I'm drawn to. That's, that sounds like your essence. You know, you just, you just want to take in all the good things, but I can only do that

45:02when I have the ideal body. Cause then I deserve it. It sounds strange, right? It does. It's really strange. I don't know how I got there. And, but the beautiful thing is that that was like, it brings up so much emotion because like, but I'm so grateful for that trip because it was able to give me that insight and it's perfect. It's almost like, it's really so great that it's coinciding with this conversation as well,

45:32because now you've been able to really help me verbalize and visualize like, okay, yeah. Like, and we have some beautiful, great next steps and things that I can do. It's, I'm really, I'm really grateful.

45:51James, I'm grateful too. This has been such an excellent conversation. I think we, we, we covered a lot of good turf and, you know, I just appreciate you and, and, and how you've been really active and aware and on it about your journey. And, you know, we're all learning, growing human beings, you know, we're not doing anything wrong. We're just trying to figure out like, how do I, how do I make it in this world and be a happy person and, and feel like I'm, I'm, I'm living my best life and being my best self.

46:25And sometimes our ideas about the body, just our ideas and our thoughts and our beliefs get in the way of being our best self.

46:35A hundred percent. So as soon as we can start to take that out of the way, and I was like, oh, okay, I can live my best life and not have the perfect body or not have my ideal preference. And if I want, I can still work towards that preference. So I think you've got a good roadmap for yourself here. I agree. Yes. James, thanks for a great conversation. I so appreciate it. Thank you, Mark. This has been amazing. Appreciate it. All right. All right. Take care, everybody.

47:06Hey friends. We're so happy that you've joined us for another episode of the psychology of eating podcast with Mark David. Are you loving these episodes? Then simply subscribe and you'll never miss an episode again. We'd also love it. If you'd leave us a review so we can hear more about your own journey with food and body. And if you're curious about what we offer at the Institute for the psychology of eating,

47:39including our internationally acclaimed coach certification training that's rooted in dynamic eating psychology and mind body nutrition, please head on over to our website, psychology of eating.com until next time, take care and remember having the body you want starts with loving the body you have.