The power of singing together (ft. Tiny Habits)

The power of vocal harmony

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1:18Charlie, I want to play a couple songs for you and have you tell me what you think they all have in common. Okay. Here's the first. Break the silence. Damn the dark, damn the light.

1:38Here's the second. You go down to heaven. You go down to heaven. You'll never come down.

1:48And here's the third. Yours. You are mine. You are what you are. You make it hard. They all tell me that your musical tastes are stuck in another decade. Okay, yes. And I thought that might be what you say. These are all songs from the 60s and 70s. But is there anything else? I would say apart from the excellent rhythm guitar playing, huge vocal harmonies. That's exactly right. And today I want to understand why these harmonies are so powerful and why I hardly hear them on the charts today.

The history of group singing

2:29Welcome to Switched On Pop. I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. And I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. Okay, and Charlie, to be clear, what did we just listen to there? Let's see. At the end was Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young. Yes, Sweet, Judy Blue Eyes. What was the second one? That was Hammond Song by The Roches. Thanks to our friend Steve Hall for introducing me to that one. And then we began with Fleetwood Mac and The Line? The Chain.

2:59The Chain. Sorry. I'm out of touch. And these are just a handful of tracks from thousands that we could pull, which offer sterling examples of stunning vocal harmonies. And this art of singing together, making your voices blend as one, singing chords, singing polyphony. This is maybe a lost art in the world of pop music. Absolutely. Like, the general trend over the last few decades has been away from groups and towards singular artists.

3:36You know, celebrity seems to be easier to propagate when there's one face that you have to put on every billboard. At the same time, you know, maybe I would counteract what you said because when you listen to an Ariana Grande track, she's such an expert vocal producer and is layering dozens of Ariana Grandes on top of each other with really dense, rich harmony. That's Kiss Me, the opening track of Ariana's most recent album, Pedal.

4:21And yeah, a nice example of what you're describing. She is such a master of layering herself in incredible, intricate vocal harmonies. But no, no, that's not exactly what I'm talking about. I'm talking about different people singing together. And I think this is an important distinction because as virtuosic as what Ariana and others do, I think there's something deeper when you sing together. There's something even therapeutic. There's something healing.

4:52There's something that might connect us to each other as human beings. I'm feeling a little emotional. I don't think I've been in a chorus of other people in like two decades. I used to sing in a chorus in high school and it was a very moving experience, even though I was a really bad singer. Similarly, I sang in a shape note chorus when I was in grad school, which was really fun. I was singing kind of this traditional Southern religious style of singing, which is really loud and really nasally.

5:25What religious revival movement were you a part of? I don't know how they let a Jewish kid from New York City in that church in Northern California, but it was a really fun thing that I looked forward to every week. That was Antioch 277 by the Henegar Union Sacred Harp Singers that we just listened to.

6:00But yeah, like you, I haven't really been singing with anyone in a long time and I miss it. There is something so profound about singing together, something kind of ineffable. It's a way of communicating with other people without actually, you know, having a conversation necessarily. One of our great limitations of being humans is that like it's really hard to walk into a room of everybody talking. You can't hear more than one, one and a half conversations at a time before your brain is just like tapped out.

6:33Yeah. But when you're singing in a chorus, you can have a hundred people and everybody's contributing and you're resonating all together. So it's no surprise that group singing is probably the oldest form of music making we have. I mean, we have records from basically every culture going back to prehistory of people singing together. Say in a Catholic church in Western Europe, we could listen to the work of the composer Perotan, his composition Vidorunt Omnis.

7:09The Western classical tradition gets a lot of credit for coming up with complex polyphonic ways of singing. And by polyphonic, I mean, you know, you have independent melodies interacting with one another. What we were just listening to, I feel like I have to go back to my AP music theory.

7:43Like first there was monophony, like everyone's singing the same note. You just said polyphony, many people singing different notes. Isn't there like a middle ground? Is there homophony? Homophony, baby. You nailed it, Charlie. You still got it. So there's like basically one main melody and then everyone else is kind of droning on another thing. Is that homophony? That's absolutely right. And so I feel like there was a big story that is always told to what you're saying is like Western culture goes monophony, homophony, polyphony. It's like seen as this like grand development and gets a lot of credit for the development of the complex, richest ways of singing.

8:17We could go to so many corners of the globe and find examples of incredibly complex choral singing. I mean, to name just a few, I would love to listen to a song from the Mbuti people of what's now the Democratic Republic of Congo that was recorded by Smithsonian Folkways. This is their elephant hunting song.

8:47I'm also borderline obsessed with the Bulgarian choral tradition, which is known for singing really crunchy intervals, like seconds close together that normally you would avoid, but they just really lean into.

9:32The rocks. That's the Bulgarian state television female choir. But if we're talking about popular music, I feel like the approach to vocal harmony that has been the most influential on most of the music we love and discuss on this show. Wait, let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Is it doo-wop? No, go back a little further. What's pre-doo-wop? And I'll give you a hint. It's also, you know, comes from the world of religion and worship.

From gospel to pop hits

10:04And I want to highlight a group like the Golden Gate Quartet, who were transitional figures. They took the sound of gospel, but they started applying it to popular music like the hit song of the 1930s, Stormy Weather. I don't know why there's no sun up in the sky. Stormy weather can't get my poor self together.

10:38The rich harmonies, the blues sonorities, the call and response, the move from background to foreground, all of these, which are hallmarks of American popular music, were pioneered in the gospel church, especially the black gospel church of the early 20th century. I mean, we heard those same techniques in Ariana's vocal layering. She was doing call and response. She had these sort of like hummed vocals underneath. A lot of those techniques, yeah, they've been around for, what, 80 years?

11:09And those gospel choral arrangements feed right into some of the most popular American musical movements, including doo-wop, which you mentioned. Wouldn't you love to turn on the radio and hear Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons just rocking that rich harmony at the beginning of Come On, Marianne?

11:42Were the Four Seasons enormous influence on the Beach Boys? Because that top line, high pitch thing that I always associate to like Brian Wilson, that clearly is where he's got to be listening to it from. Totally. And I mean, you just called exactly where I'm going next, because even into the 1960s and 70s, some of the biggest hits were predicated on really stunning vocal harmonies. And I think the Beach Boys is just like a crystalline example of that. Take their 1965 track, Barbaran, for example.

12:29Throughout the 60s and 70s, right? From Motown to the Brill Building to Nashville, Dolly Parton, everyone is doing vocal harmonies, even into the 70s, right? We started this episode listening to Fleetwood Mac, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young. You know, their vocal harmonies are like a hallmark of their sound. And then we get to the 1980s, and something seems to change.

The rise of the solo artist

12:50All of a sudden, these vocal harmonies are no longer populating the charts like they had been for, I don't know, almost a century. And whose fault is that, Charlie? I would probably blame the multitrack recorder, but you're going to point to a person? The multitrack recorder, yes, which eventually allows folks like Ariana Grande to overdub themselves rather than singing in a choir. I don't know, I'm tempted to blame the king of pop, Michael Jackson. I think it might be hard to sort of pinpoint one person, but I do accept that his going solo from the Jacksons represents a moment in time where there is a rift of vocal harmony.

13:29From one of the groups, one of the Motown groups known for their collaborative sound, Motown loses the Jacksons, Michael goes solo, and vocal harmonies are forever changed? Sure, why not? We can listen to the Jackson 5 singing harmony on Who's Loving You? But if we fast forward to the best-selling album of all time, Thriller, we don't hear group harmonies.

14:12If anything, we hear solo overdubbed harmonies, but mostly it's just Michael out front.

14:20There are for sure vocal harmonies in that clip, but they are functioning very differently than what we were hearing in the Jackson 5. Like, there is one clear center lead vocal, everything else is also Michael Jackson just supporting himself, sort of thickening up the lead vocal rather than providing a wall of rich, intricate harmonies. You know, it makes sense that the early 80s might be the place to locate the demise of vocal harmonies and group singing because it's an era of deregulation, privatization, and rising individualism.

14:59And it is the era of the rise of the brand and corporatism. And it's just so easy to sell one person as an aspirational figure in a way that's harder to say, who are you amongst this group? Right, that Reagan-era rhetoric of, you know, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and doing it yourself versus the sort of collectivism that had been a hallmark of the 60s and 70s. And the music industry has a concomitant shift. As you were saying earlier in the episode, we move from the age of the band to the age of the solo singer.

15:33And that's, you know, what we get in the 80s. We get Madonna, we get Prince, we get Michael, these like singular figures who are the centerpiece of their artistic statement. Could we say the move of the age of the band to the age of the brand? Ooh, I'll take it. Yeah. Put that on a throw pillow. Absolutely. And even today, when we do have a band, you know, BTS, for instance, comes to mind. Or Cat's Eye, like K-pop is producing a lot of great boy and girl groups. And yet, they don't sing harmony that much.

16:05They sing in unison a lot, which is really interesting. Or there's a clearer verse for each person to sing individually. But fear not, Charlie. I have good news for those harmony hounds in our audience. Those lovers of...

16:23I'm losing my alliterative powers here. Holy phonic populism? Yeah. There's some up and coming groups who are making harmony a signature of their sounds. Some of them we've interviewed on the pod before, like Truesdale. Others are in the world of country music, like the High Women. But the one I want to focus on right now is actually blowing up on TikTok and Instagram and all over social media because of their incredible harmonies.

Meet the group Tiny Habits

16:55It's the group Tiny Habits. I just keep on waiting till I see it coming. Maybe I'm too close to sing. Oh, I love that. Maybe I'm too close. And they're singing really close, tight harmony. Right. They're literally singing these close harmonies as they're singing about trying to get close. It's a really nice bit of word painting. That song is right in front of me from their album Keepers. And I wanted to understand why this group was drawn to these kind of throwback harmonies and why they think it's resonated with young audience.

17:37And finally, how do they produce these incredibly crunchy and satisfying, intricate vocals? So Tiny Habits made up of Sinya Khan, Maya Rae, and Judah Mayoa met as students at the Berklee College of Music, where I think you like to teach. I do profess there. And I had to sit down with them and ask them, how do they make these harmonies that resonate with young audiences? Where do they get their signature crunchy sounds from? And what drew them to singing together and harmonizing in an increasingly individualistic world?

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Singing live in the studio

20:38Tiny Habits. Hey. Welcome to Switched On Pop. Hello. Can you introduce yourselves? I'm Sinya. I'm Judah. I'm Maya. And maybe we could start with you all singing something for us. Let's do it. Yeah. Maybe something from your new album, Keepers. Totally. Ready? One, two, ready. I know I can't be anything he was to you, but I'll try to, try to.

21:11Nothing like he was, but I know what he meant to you. I'll try to, oh, live off to him. Memories proving. Is that me? Live off to him. Memories proving you were happier doing anything we'd like to do. When he was next to you, I'll try to, try to. Why do you love singing together?

21:43Many reasons. Many reasons. Can't harmonize by yourself. I mean, we just started singing as friends. We met at Berklee College of Music in Boston, and we were just kind of buddies. We were like singing in stairwells and singing in dorm rooms. So yeah, it really just started because it was just so fun and exciting. And then we just kept doing it. Just fun. Yeah. And now it just feels so like healing all the time, I think.

22:14It's very satisfying also. It is, yeah. Because I feel like we all have very specific tastes now about harmony. I'm interested in that word healing. What's healing about singing together? Because we're also friends, and we know so much about each other in our personal lives. It's just like, it's just healing. I don't even know how to explain it. There's something primal about it, too. Yeah. Like you see a video of a choir on Instagram, and you like have chills. And I think an experience of any group of people doing one thing together is like always beautiful.

22:46Is there like a physical experience to singing together? I think it feels like, for me, I feel so held when I'm singing with them. It's almost like this comfort blanket of like, there's other people who are holding you up while you're doing this really vulnerable thing. Yeah. And I think that's like a universal experience, as Sin was saying. Like, for anyone, like, you know, in a choir or, you know, doing one thing together, it's like. You feel a part of something. You feel a part of something. Yeah. And you're all kind of experiencing the same, like, emotional moment.

23:17So, you sang a little bit of Anything He Was for us.

Composing and arranging together

23:34Tell us about composing and arranging that song. Where did that come from? Well, I wrote that song a few years ago, and I was just like, it's just like, it was just obvious that I was like, oh, this has to be a Hap song. And so I brought it to them, and they, like, immediately knew exactly what to sing. Like, it was a very, like, straightforward, like, process of, like, obviously Maya would sing that part, and Senya would sing that part. And that's just like, that just kind of happened. I think arranging for us has kind of gotten easier over time, because we've sung so much together, we kind of fall into our regular kind of parts.

24:24But I think with this song, we kind of felt like we didn't need to overcomplicate it. Yeah. It kind of speaks for itself, you know, in terms of... The chorus is very classic. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing too crazy. Because we have the tendency to, like, really overcomplicate. And so that was very, it was very easy. Very easy. When you're building a harmony, there's the notes and the pitches that you're each singing. And then there's also the blend of your voices. And I'm curious, like, how your voices are working together.

24:56What is that process like? Silent. It is very, yeah. Eyes closed. It's very internal. Each of us have the desire for it to sound very specifically connected and, like, one voice, sort of. And so I think while we're singing, actively we're thinking about, I guess we're maybe not even thinking about it at this point. It's just, like, I'm hearing you. I'm adjusting, however minorly or majorly, to your phrasing and breathing. The frequency. So it's a lot of listening, I think.

25:26Yeah. And just adjusting accordingly. It used to be harder. I think when we were starting, yeah, the unison was kind of a more foreign concept, maybe. And I think that's the thing with a lot of, like, harmony groups that maybe they do less of. And I think for us, when we kind of started discovering that part of our voices and that, oh, actually, our blend is pretty good. And so we kind of refined it and worked on it. And now it's sort of second nature. Yeah. I feel like also people made us aware of it. Like, we weren't even, like, really thinking about it until, like, we were posting videos and people were like, oh, you guys have such a great unison.

26:03You sound like one person. And we were like, really? And it's super cool because you'll hear our individual voices and they sound pretty different. But something about, like, the frequency of all of our voices, just when we're together, it's like, it's one thing. Could we hear that? Like, the transformation from individual voices to the collective? Okay. Yeah. What's the song that is like that? I mean, we could do Flickr even or something. Yeah. Oh, sure. One.

26:33Two. Just me? Should we go one by one? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love it. Wait up, I'm running over your shoulder looking at me like I'm someone I don't know. What's the lyric? Someone you don't know. Okay, you go. All right. Wait up, I'm running over your shoulder looking at me like I'm someone you don't know. Wait up, I'm running over your shoulder looking at me like I'm someone you don't know.

27:09That was pretty cool. That is interesting. Yeah. I was like, wait. So does that mean you're constantly aware of your volume and your intensity and how it relates? Yeah. It's like an active adjustment. Mm-hmm. Like as you're singing, like you're just like, oh, okay, like I wish I had something to compare

27:45it to, but I don't, I don't really know. It's hard. Yeah. You're listening, but you're not over listening. It's like just balancing, like surfing, like you're just like constantly like adjusting yourself until you're like completely within whatever you're supposed to be. Riding the wave. Yeah. Riding the wave. Surfing. Surfing the harmonies. Wow. I love that. I like that. I like that. So yeah, let's, let's take it back a little now.

The origin story at Berklee

28:11Give us your, like the tiny habits origin story. Like, do you remember when you all sang together for the first time? We remember, I remember. I had been in school for a year already, and then we had been sent home for COVID. And upon our return, Maya had been following me and Judah on Instagram separately. And I think they were in conversation before they had gotten to campus and they were sort of chatting a little bit. Maya had a crush on Judah. It's no big deal. She goes, Judah, quarantine's over.

28:43We had a 10 day quarantine. She goes, Judah, come on down. Like, let's sing together. She wanted to kiss him. No. I'm just kidding. Just kidding. Drama. That was a, that was what, that's what she doesn't tell people. But that is. She doesn't. I mean, he's a stunning person. But then she found out. She quickly found out. That is a sister. He was not into me. And so then they were singing a little bit, a little YouTube karaoke situation. And me and Maya had also been in conversation over Instagram DM. She responded to me, you should come down and sing with me and Judah. And so I went downstairs, shaking as I knocked on her door.

29:14Yeah. And we sang Happy and Sad by KCM. We sat on my dorm room floor that, that January evening. Yeah. And you can hear that video now and you really can like hear our individual voices. There was like no, like, not a lot of connection yet. Yeah. But there was a spark. Yeah. And I didn't know Senya at all. Like Maya was like maybe one of the only two people. Yeah, that was the first time I. That I like had talked, I like my roommate and literally you, I like had conversations with before coming to campus. And then. Yeah. She's like, we should sing together. And I was like. Because Judah and I started Berklee during the pandemic and it was like completely online.

29:46Yeah. So kind of the way you would, you were making friends was like online classes and like. Yeah. You know, following people on Instagram. So that's kind of why. But that's the really beautiful thing about college, I think. Like, yeah. Everybody's sort of equally scared. You have access to all these people that are your age and interested in the same thing as you. It was very cool. Yeah. Right. And then. So you sang a Casey Musgrave song together and we're like, oh, there's something here. And then was there a moment where you were singing either an original or an arrangement

30:18and and realized that there was something you really wanted to build together? I feel like when you guys started One More, there's this like one of our first songs we ever wrote was called One More and the two of them had started it in like the stairwell or something classic. And we had gotten together was like a final day of the semester and the room was empty

30:54and we sang that song together in like mostly unison. I think I was watching that video back for a while after we had gone home and I was like, this is a little bit special and probably like should be something. It sounds like the isolation of the pandemic like really shaped this project in a lot of ways. Also, we like we were all in the same dorm building and there were like maybe three or four different Berkeley dorm buildings and like you were only allowed to hang out with the people that you were like in like in your same dorm building. So if we were in different dorm buildings, we'd probably...

31:26Judah was across the hall from me. Maya was directly under Judah's room. Yeah. So like... Kismet. It was fate, maybe. It was fate. Was that a transition from your maybe initial intentions as artists though? Like did you start Berkeley with the intention of like being a solo act? And what made you feel like it would be okay to instead form this, you know, collective? There was no conscious decision to be like, oh, okay, we're leaving our solo careers behind.

32:01Yeah. Or like kind of just... Or we're going to school to like form a band or something. It was just like we're, you know, open to whatever. I feel like a lot of it also had to do with like the way it was resonating with other people. It felt like there was something special about making a trio or having a band. It felt, I guess, sort of more original in some funny way. There's a delicacy, maybe, to some of the work you do. Wow. That feels like it's an antidote to the overstimulation of so much of the world we live in.

32:37So your arrangements are very intricate, sometimes very quiet. And it kind of, as a listener, it kind of puts you into this other mode of experiencing art. How intentional is that? Or is that just something that developed organically? Definitely organically. I think also it was sort of a product of the music that we loved, like starting, because we were all really into little singer-songwriting sounds and just delicate music.

33:12Every choice we make, I would say, is pretty intentional. One thing that's really striking about your arrangements are the crunchiness factor. Your willingness to throw in these pitches that create dissonance or some kind of tension. So I would love if you could maybe sing something for us that would be an example of that approach and we could break down how you create those sounds.

33:43Okay, ready? There she goes, there she goes again, racing through my brain, and I just can't contain this feeling I remain. Yeah. I guess that's not bad dissonance. Where there's like... Yeah. Also, these videos take 45,000 tapes.

34:13Yeah. So everyone's seeing the TikTok, it's like the millionth take. I mean, as you can hear, there's so many things that are going into it. We're doing a lot of like flipping and... So, yeah. There's also three different people singing. So if one person makes a mistake, they're going to want to be doing it. And we're all perfectionists. You mentioned flipping. Like, break that down for us. What does that refer to exactly?

34:43Yeah, I guess more just like playing around with what parts we're singing. Because I think a lot of the time, you know, there's like the alto and the melody and the soprano or whatever, tenor. And I think usually people will kind of, that's their part and they're sticking to that. And I think we do a lot of parts. Letting someone else do the melody or letting someone else take the low part. And we'll start on the melody and then flip to, you know, the third. Yeah, yeah. So it's like everyone's taking turns in a way of like not doing something that is complicated or... But I think it's funny because I think, at least in my brain, we're not thinking, oh, you know, okay, I'm singing.

35:17I mean, I guess maybe now we do. But I think before it was less about, okay, I'm singing the melody and now I'm going to sing the third here. And then I think it just kind of happened. This is your whole part. Yeah. It just sort of like came out when we were arranging. And now maybe we think more about it. Tell me about introducing that crunch factor into an arrangement. I think it just depends on the song, honestly, because it's like... Yes, you have to be appropriate about it. Yeah, and intuitive. Because to be crunchy just for the sake of being crunchy, now it's crispy. Yeah.

35:47Now it's crispy. It's a little burnt. Right. We just want lightly... We just want a little brown. Lightly toasted. A little toasted. A little toasted. Exactly. Exactly. Now it's crispy. You have a beautiful album, Keepers. Yay. And you're going to be touring. What are you looking forward to singing live from this record? Like, what's the moment? All of it. Probably all of it, yeah. I'm excited for Fragile, too. I feel like that one's always just a...

36:18We've been singing that. A nice... Something CCM about. Something CCM, like healing about it. Yeah. Or spiritual. A little spiritual. Yeah. I'm excited to have some fun. Yeah. Yeah. Like, with Love Ruins Everything. I'm excited for Someone You Love. Oh. Yes. Because I have this vision that we teach the audience the harmonies and the bridge, and they all sing it back. Yeah. The really fun thing about our audiences is that there's a lot of musicians, usually. Yeah. You know, harmony fans and all that. So, they sing pretty well.

36:49Is there one of those songs you just mentioned, is there a moment that you could sing for us now as a little preview?

Advice for aspiring singers

36:57We could sing the Fragile Bridge. Yeah. Yes. That's easy. I couldn't fathom watching it fall down, letting it shatter. Instead of sticking a hand out, we've seen it happen. We watched them fade out, don't let us be them, don't let that be them.

37:27I don't want to. Is that the tire? Yeah. Is that the tire and the water melts? Yeah. Yeah. People are going to listen to your album, hear you on tour, watch your videos, and they might want to sing themselves with other people. Like, where would they start to have that experience themselves? Maybe Facebook? Facebook group? Maybe the internet. Put an ad out. But, like, probably the internet. Like, find other people. There's a million other people that are desperate to sing with friends. Send that message.

37:58Send the message. Post a video of yourself being like, I want to find friends to sing with who's in my area. Yeah. Because there definitely are people. It's also, like, a very easy way to build a community and, like, make friends. I feel like we have such a privilege with our gift to, like, just, like, oh, like, I can go and sing with this person and, like, now we hang out and we're, like, most of my friends I met because I, like, she's like, I want to sing with you. I want to hang out with, like, write a song with you or, like, you know. It's so funny, though, because that's, like, it can be in, like, two ways.

38:29It can be more intimate than, like, just being someone's friend or, like, somehow, like, a really nice bridge to becoming closer to someone. Yeah. Because sometimes we're singing and me and Maya or me and Judah are just, like, staring into each other's eyes. Yeah. But it's not, like, registering as, like, an intimate situation. I don't know how to explain that. It's just very, I don't know. But sometimes you can talk to a new person and it's, like, I'm awkward. Yeah. But if you're singing with them, something's different about it. And if someone's feeling nervous, like you, Sinia, you described, you know, shaking as

39:02you knocked on the door the first time you sang together. Like, what would you tell someone who was nervous about that first time? Just do it anyway. Do it scared. Do it scared. We've done a lot of things scared, but we've done it together. Yeah. Or even if you're by yourself going into a situation where you're, like, about to embrace, you know, new relationships, like, it's so worth it. Like, that fear, it goes away so quickly. It's such a temporary feeling to be afraid of something like that.

39:34You never know how someone will impact you. Right. And it could go either way. That is the beauty of music and the arts. It's, like, sharing something with somebody that is separate from you in a way. Like, it's music and then it's, like, people. Yeah. And you both get to attach yourselves to something together. Yeah. And I feel like that's really special. Is there a cover that comes to mind that really you felt like people really connected with when you sang it? We just recently had a little pop-up show for our album in London.

40:05And it was in a church. And we decided during soundcheck that we were going to do a song unplugged in the middle of the audience. And we sang Alone by Heart. And it was really special. What's so funny is that we found a video of it on TikTok.

40:28The comments are like, why are they hooting and hollering in a church? Yeah. And we're like, I'm sorry. Oh, my God. Yeah. It was so funny. But it didn't happen. All the respect. Yes. All the respect. We can do that. We can make a chorus of that. One, two, ready, in. Till now. I always got by.

40:50I never really can until I met you. Oh, and now it chills me to the bone. How do I get you, how do I get you, how do I get you, how do I get you alone?

41:21Tiny Habits, Maya, Judah, Sinia. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for having us. Thank you so much. This was so fun. Support for the show comes from Sonos.

41:52A great sound system starts with precision engineering, but it also needs a big picture approach. One that starts by thinking about how a system can integrate into your life and stir your emotions. That's the approach that's the approach that Sonos takes. How can your music follow you effortlessly through your home? How can you create an experience in your living room that feels like you're sitting in a theater and loses nothing when you switch to headphones? Sonos answers these questions and more.

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