284: The Truth Behind Emotional Eating

Introduction

0:00hello welcome to slim more podcast how the flipping heck are you am i allowed to say that anna is that polite enough yeah i think yeah how the flipping heck are you i'm good how are you i'm flipping brilliant well done now then um we love to geek out on a bit of research and there's

0:35nothing better than when it's not only slimming world research but also research which has just been presented to the european congress on obesity i mean that's like research with a cherry on the cake if i'm allowed to say that anna that's like proper super turbo research isn't it that's what we want to know about because we are fascinated you and i about the psychology the science the knowledge the research around weight loss weight maintenance the psychology gets us really excited so this is like our perfect podcast isn't it yeah and you know the reason we get so um geeky about

Weight Loss Journey

1:11this is i think one of the things that we've struggled with on our weight loss journeys is when things go quite insular and you kind of enter into your own world and you get trapped into a cycle and stepping out of that bubble connecting to the wider community in support of slimming world but also looking at the how and the why and the research of what's actually going on here allows you to kind of find the solutions and the way through to really crack your own weight loss

1:43journey so that it feels like something that's manageable that's consistent and that you can really stick at so um we're delighted to welcome uh anna you're going to love this because i know you're

Guest Introduction

1:54saying about you love a bit of the psychology uh we're delighted to welcome associate professor of behavioral medicine what a title gemma travis turner how are you i'm very well thank you what a privilege to be on the podcast today thanks for having me um i'm really excited to have the opportunity actually to talk about this piece of research hot off the press for the first time um and i hope that the listeners will be equally as excited and will take something useful away too i think so we've

2:24had a little sneaky sample of some of this research i mean i think maybe one of the things that we should point out is um you uh work for the university of leeds but it's interesting that slimming world only down the road in alfred and derbyshire that slimming will reach out to work with experts like you so that they kind of stay on top of what's happening um have i got the gist of that right yeah so i've been really fortunate in in making collaboration with slimming world um i've been

2:55invited a couple of times now to the fantastic headquarters which has been a great opportunity always very well looked after um but it feels great to actually do research that matters um and research that can actually contribute to the evidence base that we already know um so that people are receiving um the correct support and evidence-based support as opposed to actually you know looking to social media or clutching up straws looking on ai which i know a lot of people do now um but you know ai can never replace a human psychologist so it's really nice to

3:30to collect this data but actually to then see it um implemented into um evidence-based programs

Research Background

3:37so i feel very very fortunate to have made this this connection yeah the research that um you have been looking at for a good while now is actually based on um conversations and uh reports from over 3 000 slimming world members and i understand also you've actually been and sat and uh experienced slimming world group for yourself to kind of see the magic that happens in group as part of this research yeah that's right and um i don't think i quite understood the concept and when i first arrived at

4:11slimming world it really kind of brought to light how progressive slimming world is and how research savvy they are actually um in being able to collect this research and then implement it into their programs so and i don't think i really understood the benefits other than you know from hearing it first experience from the members and their life-changing journeys um you know how important this research is to us as academics but also to people and to members of slimming world and beyond slimming world

4:42do you know when i read um the research i just you know i felt a sense of validation a sense of oh my goodness me it's not just me it's not just my members like this is it this is what happens in my brain that must be such an incredible thing to see when you've done your piece of research but then you go into group and you see those things implemented that must be really powerful and exciting and i think it matters to people as well that we're listening um but if we think about that sense of validation

5:13um and i guess normalization when we're thinking about emotional eating as a topic um not just in people in weight management but also people i talk to about the job that i do um so on you know regularly people say what do you do as a job and i say well i'm a researcher and i'm interested in emotional eating and they're like oh i do that um you know and in our research we found that almost half of the people with overweight and obesity report emotional eating but i suspect that that is much higher um

5:45it's a it's quite a secretive um quite a secretive experience people feel like they're being blamed they feel quite shameful and guilty about it so i suspect the numbers are much much higher and not just in weight management so this is really a problem that matters to people um and what weight management programs are doing now are actually opening that box for people to be able to talk about it and then offering tools and solutions for people to be able to manage it so i think it's just the very beginning but we're starting to open that that sort of unknown box that hasn't been open for in weight management

6:21forever well and now as being presented on a european stage i mean there's no better way to open the box there is it to talk about this stuff so should we get into what the research revealed then jemma so you

Research Findings

6:37drew upon data from 3834 slimming world members which is a phenomenal amount of people i know far more than you expected you were good at um kind of intervening and get connected in this survey but what did it actually show about emotional eating yeah it was a lot a really huge um survey so we were really happy with the numbers um and i guess the top line is it showed that happy eating can also derail weight loss

7:10as well as comfort eating um and this was one of the first studies to actually make the distinction between positive and negative emotional eating so we know that we eat in response to feeling down but what we don't know is that we also eat when we're happy so we eat for celebrations we eat at weddings we eat when we're excited and the thing that this research does is it really highlights that that is quite normal it's quite a normal experience it's just we have to learn to bring ourselves back

7:42on track after we've had one of these um happy experiences and that's really the tools that we need to to to learn i guess and practice so bringing ourselves back on track and knowing that a one-off we can be flexible with that it's just a small indulgence and then we get back on track with our weight loss journey so when we say um positive emotions is that where i mean anna i don't know about you i'm thinking like a birthday a holiday wedding yeah you know relationship yeah you've

8:17done we've had a brilliant day at school let's get an ice cream those type of things that are just littered in our everyday life aren't they yeah and absolutely and and that's the thing you mentioned let's we've had a good day at school let's go get an ice cream that's exactly we don't snack on salad and we don't snack on apples if you've had a great day or you've got a promotion um we go for those high sugar high salt highly accessible foods um that make us feel good and it's such a learned behavior i often talk about my own weight loss journey as a and becoming

8:52overweight as a child and that's how it started well done you've had a bad day i can clearly remember my dad handed me a box of lynch chocolates because i'd done well at school and that just transcends through throughout my adult life it was just a learned behavior as well as here's the box of chocolates because you've had a bad day it is really and you don't almost notice it's happening i suspect yeah yeah so people are more likely to to have unhealthy snacks in response to emotions we don't get that larger portion of dinner um you just don't um you know and that that's known in the well known in

9:26the research it's these uh you know we live in a a world of choice and convenience and we can we can get these things accessibly and quick at the click of a button uber eats and it's there or 24 hour convenience shops are open so we have to learn to navigate this and have a toolbox um in which we can draw from so that we have the tools to manage those emotions and not just turning to food all the time yeah and i mean it's it's mad isn't it to think that this is one of the first large-scale

10:00studies to actually explore both positive and negative emotional eating as you say so many of us think about you know when we're down and how we turn to food as a way to to comfort and maybe numb out or avoid difficult emotions that we're managing i guess the thing really is because you spoke with summer world members and this is maybe what sets this aside these are people who are successfully uh losing uh losing weight as part of a weight loss journey um i guess you explored

10:34maybe some of the strategies of how they were overcoming emotional eating as well we did and we asked a really nice question about what strategies would you recommend for a friend so it removed the person from the the personal question um and i guess i'll i'll jump in in at number one um we'll play the game show uh version in at number one was distraction techniques so distraction techniques were mentioned by over a third of the respondents um these were things like physical activity um socializing and

11:11hobbies and we know from the literature in mindfulness for example if you have an urge to do something if you can halt that temporarily and accept the feeling then you can actually ride the wave and you don't have that impulsive feeling for very long um so distraction was in at number one i mean that's no surprise there is it that's i mean even going to group is a good distraction before the big you know if you've got a big birthday or something you're starting to think i guess anna of

11:42a pause of how else could i set myself up that's part of what the supporting group does and also getting that plan of i know that actually on a wednesday i might be liable to do x y and z because of how my day is so having that plan of distraction actually this came up in in my group just last week talking about having a bubble bath or reading a book or picking up the phone to your mom or going out for a dog or something like that so you know you've got your distraction plan ready to roll out rather than it just coming by surprise because i think that's where many of us

12:15get caught out we know how we might behave but we still let it surprise us every time it happens so having that toolbox ready to open is a really important thing isn't it yeah and it's it's it's one of the simplest techniques it's just we forget yes so it's about practicing that so it's about noticing the urge and then it's about having that tool to implement you said something before about sitting with it and where i know i'd really struggled is i didn't like sitting with that because that feeling was uncomfortable that feeling wasn't something i like to be with so the food was a

12:49great distraction but actually once you learn to sit with that for a few minutes at most it does dissipate it does pass doesn't it so almost having that courage to go through that emotion is really important yeah and i think that gives you a chance then to to check in with yourself and think is this hunger do i need this food so again we don't really eat very often anymore in response to physical hunger we eat in response to environmental cues because we live in this modern world where we

13:22have busy lives and we have jobs and we have lots of choice and accessibility to food so we don't actually eat in response to our physical hunger very often anymore and i guess that distraction technique just allows you to think am i hungry i'm interesting that slim and world members came up with this as a strategy themselves this is an expert saying this this is what members are saying i mean what else did they say so in at number two um was keeping healthy foods in the house so avoiding having

13:57those trigger foods to hand and making good food choices visible um it's a bit like in the supermarket when you go to the supermarket and they put all the good things at the end of the aisle um it's having having the healthy foods in the house um so this was mentioned by 24 of the sample again a really really good strategy um it just comes and stuck a little bit when you're in a family environment for example it requires everybody to be on board with this um so my kids have a pick and mix drawer um which is

14:31filled with it's got little scoops and it's filled with kind of nuts and seeds and dried apricots and stuff like that so it's a bit like pick and mix but then when their friends come around they're a bit horrified because they're like this is not real pick and mix this is brilliant my little girl thought grapes were sweets until she was direct do you know what I mean but it is curating your home and your space isn't it like in my fridge I know that the first thing I see is food optimized food and perhaps the things that I'm higher in calories or swips are in the back of the fridge so that they

15:02don't trigger me to to see because I'm a person I think a lot of us are I see it I want it it's that seafood to having that space curated I'm going to pick a mixture with paper tops and alongside that that came with healthy food swaps so again this is something that slimming world is fundamental to the slimming world program um things like the fakeaways so swapping the unhealthy food that you might respond to an emotion with with something that's a bit of a better option yeah absolutely and I

15:35imagine planning must have been in there somewhere well that is at number four so you're ahead of me Claire um so at number four was planning routine and preparation um and this is about planning your meals shopping lists not shopping when you're hungry and using the food tracking apps um and I was kind of thinking about this um likening it to a long car journey because when we're trying to make changes to our behavior um these behaviors are really ingrained and so it's not just a quick trip around

16:09the block it's um you know it's a long journey that we're embarking on trying to change these behaviors so when you go on a long car journey what do you do you plan what you're going to take with you you plan where you're going to stop you plan where you're going to charge your car you plan where the service stations are you take a puzzle book or you know your phone charges so I think it's a bit similar really it's about having the plans in place so that if you do come unstuck or you do come up against a trigger

16:40you've got that um action plan ready yeah what was number three by the way so three was healthy food swaps so it was kind of it was within the same category as keeping the healthy foods available okay that do you know it's about that forward thinking for your future self that's what's really helped me to to get motivated to it actually do you know what Anna on Wednesday is going to thank Anna from Sunday who meal prepped who did the food shopping who made sure she had all those plans

17:10and it's it's understanding isn't it that what happens when you don't because history tells me if I don't have the food in the fridge I haven't done the food shop that's when I got on the app and I want to order a pizza so actually forward thinking and knowing but I love the analogy of thinking it like a car journey because you wouldn't get in the car if you've got an electric car and not charge it or put any petrol in we would expect to lose weight without making good choices and decisions around the food that's in our fridge and the meals that we planned yeah and you mentioned there about you know making mistakes and what happens if you don't I think that's really important as well

17:44because that is part of the journey um it's knowing what happens when you don't do these things and then learning from the mistakes and they are inevitable and they are going to happen and actually be kind to yourself and and take those as learning opportunities I guess see that I think for me the idea around planning for those situations that for me is when I found a similar group and stayed to group that is what was the difference maker for me to learn how to do that I think when

18:15I'd previously followed other weight loss plans yes I was kind of told eat this and you will lose weight but then when the the setbacks or the challenges came up or as we say the positive and negative emotions kind of came up I didn't really understand the strategy of how to navigate that and then in group kind of having the support of my consultant but also seeing other members exactly as you're reporting here Gemma explain how they'd work through that scenario giving me ideas

18:46of how I could do that that I think was that connection I think that enabled me to to really understand what what's the personalized solution for me look like and then how can I build this in so that I'm ready I'm practice that I've got this as in my toolbox as as we were just saying I mean Anna I guess that is the essential of what the support aspect whether it be in the online community or in group is all about that's why we're there we're there to help you change your behaviors you know

19:17we've been around for over 55 years creating that kind of expertise and habit change consistently and that's what you're going to get in group you're going to get that understanding that knowledge to make your own plan from your consultant but also your fellow members and I think there's something so strong in learning from your peers and other people who are on the same journey because anybody can be told what to do but I don't know about you if you tell me what to do I might listen but it doesn't mean I'm going to implement it long term hearing and seeing what other people do so I can create my own plan for my own life it's far more empowering isn't it so that's what we're there

19:51we're there to have a good time and learn and and think about the strategies that are going to serve you long term to make long term habit change because we need to embed these new habits in order to lose weight but also to keep it off yeah you've jumped ahead as well because our final question was around

Support and Accountability

20:11support we asked people um about the benefits of support and and actually you know coming out of the members from the members voices themselves um they talked about a sense of belonging um about sharing and learning tips and about accountability so having people to um be accountable to and to come back to so I think yeah the group is the sort of final piece of the jigsaw really in terms of

20:47you've got these this toolbox and how do you use it and how do you stick to it and that's the long-term part of the journey I guess do you know what's so lovely I was just thinking about some members in my group and they were very honest they two of them had to go and make some changes and go and do some things that week and when they came back into group the following the whole group was what what's happened what have you done how have you gotten so invested in the habits that they were going to change and the things they've done and celebrated them and I think without that kind of support system

21:17or that accountability of saying how did you get on you said you're going to do this and then celebrating that they may not have made those changes because they didn't have that celebration but they also didn't have that you know you committed to that what have you done it's a really important foundation isn't it when changing habits yeah yeah it absolutely is and in in any um behavior change intervention we ask people to sign a contract um a contract to change and you know that I guess that's the same in sort of the sense of slimming world people are coming back and they've contractually

21:51said they're going to do this particular behavior even if it's only for a week um so then they have to come back and stand by that yeah I mean that sense of belonging that you talk about it's interesting with something like emotional eating you mentioned earlier about how this is often seen as a secret experience um clothed in shame or guilt of like oh god I've done it again I can't believe I've done this but actually that there's nothing more powerful than when you sit in group and you know that something

22:28needs to change and you share that um with this community that is safe and welcoming and you see all the nodding heads and people pipe up and say I do that too I used to do that and you feel heard and understood in a way that instantly annihilates any shame that that you may be carrying it just quietens down that noise that we feel in our minds um and I don't think that is something that people

22:58talk about enough because it's like a conversation we have in our own heads um but as you say like this idea about opening the box of okay let's look at all aspects of emotional eating happy sad angry bereaved whatever those emotions are and and really kind of spin this around and understand what's really happening I mean I imagine mindset is going to be in there somewhere too were people talking about like

23:30what that kind of more um positive mindsets uh I mean Anna have talked about things like visualization did that come up at all in any of the the studies absolutely yeah so um people talked about mindset and motivation um and that was things like self-compassion so forgiving ourselves when we make mistakes and knowing that that's okay um you know we all make mistakes in life it's just getting yourself back on track and be motivated to get yourself back on track and again

24:05I think that's where the group support comes into this um because they provide that motivation to get back on track um and I guess that links to the positive emotional eating so when we talked about having a blip and going on holiday or going to a hen do or whatever um it's about coming back resetting and then getting back on with the plan do you know also I think I spot seeing members in group and online is that it's not inevitable actually you know that you may be liable to

24:41eat or drink this in certain emotions but actually you don't have to do that we can help you to create a plan to do something different and that can be so freeing for me to understand that on a birthday I didn't have to eat the entire birthday cake that a meal out doesn't mean a starter a main course of dessert and a bottle of wine that I could learn different habits so that I could have an amazing time if it was a brilliant celebration or or seek comfort in other things that wasn't food I I only learned that in group because what that taught me was to manage my emotion to sit with my emotion

25:15but also how to put strategies in place that took me to a different place so you know I think it's knowing that what group does is to show you that the inevitable doesn't have to happen yeah and I guess in those situations where you're out for a meal and you were saying about swapping having um a starter main course and a dessert actually changing the meaning of going out for a meal and making it the social experience um rather than about the food yes because actually yeah you don't remember necessarily the pudding you had six months ago but you remember that you had a wonderful

25:50conversation with aunt annie or whatever do you know what I mean so again I think so many of us have gone it down to the food and the alcohol that we forget actually it's more than that isn't it yeah and food is often it's a shared experience um so we I do a lot of work with people with severe mental illness and um at their groups we provide we provide food um and they didn't talk about what the food was they talked about eating it in other people's company and then the sense of sharing um

26:20so I think in social environments and um when we go out for dinner actually having food is about socializing and talking with people and that's the function of the food it's just you happen to be eating food whilst you're doing that so I guess it's making different associations you can substitute the behavior with something else so it's functionally equivalent to have a good conversation with someone and do something sociable that maybe isn't even over a meal yeah yeah that's the where the

26:52behavior change kicks in I suppose isn't it I mean you mentioned there around compassion as well and compassion I think can often be a word that lands in different ways with different people we've talked about this as well as like the word of kindness um and showing yourself kindness and sometimes that can be as simple as the self-talk that you have um in talking to yourself in the same way that you would say a fellow member in group um which so often we are mean to ourselves as

27:24I was saying about that oh I've done it again I always do this I always mess up I'll never ever be able to keep losing weight I'll always get back to where I started it's kind of quashing that and finding a new way I suppose of showing ourselves compassion um and as you say that doesn't have to always be with food looking for those things I suppose that um that lift us or are helpful to us um in maintaining our good behaviors yeah yeah absolutely I think it's an interesting journal exercise

27:57um uh and a part of what I really love about being a symbol member is it allows you to be a bit of a detective and you know the outcome of these little detective journal processes I think they end up being completely different for different people and we always say if you ever want accountability and you're listening you can email us we don't have to read your emails out on the podcast you can just send it to us slimmingworldpodcast.gmail.com um if any of this is landing with you or you're getting those light bulb moments that you want to share um but that idea of when I'm happy I dot dot dot

28:33when I'm sad I dot dot dot and maybe that might be around food but maybe look at what some of those habits are that you do when you're happy or when you're sad I mean because I imagine Gemma for some people when they're happy they eat more but when they're sad they eat less or vice versa I imagine that can be quite changeable and maybe even from emotion to emotion yeah and it's very um it depends on the stressor as well so um mood affects our eating in very different ways so sometimes if it's a chronic

29:11stressor and you're feeling down for a long period of time often it um it dampens your appetite so people eat less whereas if it's a acute and quick stressor often people resort to quick fixes like eating it can affect our appetite in different ways and I think I suppose that would be one of my key messages that it's very individual and so the journals so one of the most powerful tools we use as psychologists is a food and mood diary so I'm not really bothered what people actually eat I'm

29:43bothered about the situation and the environment that they're eating in and what the trigger to them eating is and who they're eating with a food and mood diary is a very good way and a practical strategy um for managing emotional eating and recognizing what the triggers are but it's very different and it's very situationally dependent as well so it's developing those tools so the strategies that the members mentioned and then it's picking the ones that fit at the time of practicing those and what works one week for you might not work the next week for you either so it's been equipped

30:19with all of them and having your tool belt on at all times I guess yes so true that I did a food and mood diary about three years ago and it changed my whole trajectory with how I ate because it brought it into my forefront of my mind and so much of it with emotional eating and tell me if I'm wrong I was done below my consciousness like I ate before I'd even recognized that I was emotional that I was eating so actually seeing it in black and white and saying actually that was the stress that that was the trigger that's how you behaved you know what you're going to do let's go back and just take

30:53a pause was a real game changer for me really helped me immensely yeah yeah I mean your research taps into what Anna's touching on there about uh that you you found those in group who'd lost the most weight reported the lowest levels of both negative and positive emotional eating as well as fewer food cravings better craving control and better overall mental well-being I mean that's pretty big

31:23isn't it that's that that's like the gold that we're all aiming for if I'm honest Gemma the other interesting finding was the fact that they had fewer food cravings for both sweet and savory foods so I guess it's implementing those findings and providing support for both positive and negative emotional eating and enabling people to to practice those I just I will just keep saying practice them because they're not they're not quick fixes but knowing that the people that lose the most weight have the lowest

31:53levels of these things and better craving control yes is is very powerful in such a large sample and it is something you have to practice like for me you know at my biggest I was eating 16 chocolate bars in a day and six packets of crisps that didn't change overnight I had to practice changing those behaviors swapping those foods recognizing those cravings and now I sit here as a 45 year old woman that wouldn't even think about eating 16 bars of chocolate I could just about manage one

32:24now but that has been something I've had to concentrate on practice like a new habit like learning to ride a bike it didn't come overnight the first thing I had to do was get into the forefront of my mind then I had to make swaps then I had to practice but I also had to know and Gemma said it before there will be lapses there will be falls in that that wasn't a perfect journey that was knowing actually I did have big wobbles so I think if anybody's kind of listening and thinking that's all right for them but that's not me you can change it it can happen you just have to decide

32:54you want it to happen I think was the biggest thing for me yeah wow well thank you for sharing

Future Research Plans

33:00um this insight Gemma some really uh reassuring notes I guess from Slim & World members um too what happens next with this research so it's been presented you know in the European uh congress on obesity in the last couple of weeks uh that happened in Istanbul what happens next with it um well the next stage is um doing the academic stuff in the background I think so um we've heard

33:30from members and it's quite an unusual way to do research because we normally bring our theory and say this is what we think happens um what we did with this research was we asked members from the we took a bottom-up approach we asked members what what strategies they would recommend and then the next stage is to actually map it onto what we know as the behavior change taxonomy um which shows us it's a um a wheel I suppose of of 93 different behavior change components to map it onto the theory um so that

34:04we can then implement that into evidence-based weight management programs such as Slimming World wow so we've done it we've we've done it in in reverse really because I think it's much more authentic to actually ask members rather than you know us come from our people describe as the ivory tower and and impart our theory onto people so so that that's that's the ultimate goal how nice go to the power of members yeah go members changing the world yeah one mouthful at a time yeah yeah one strategy at a

34:41time Gemma thank you so much um keep in touch with us we'd love to hear where next and if there's any other research hopefully we'll have you back on the podcast yeah thanks so much for having me on and I really hope that um listeners have taken away a few of those sort of key nuggets of information in terms of strategies they might use um and actually recognizing that emotional eating is a thing um and that they can do something about it and there are people to talk about about it and that's okay

35:12yeah absolutely yeah brilliant thanks guys thank you Anna we're back next week with a members podcast shall I just quickly have a little whilst the ukuleles are rolling up what should we oh my what is it it's prepared it's prepping for summer next week what more could we want that's it get the sunglasses out ready for that one let's start thinking about how do you want to feel come July and August we'll get into more around strategies uh next week uh but other than that

35:45we'll see you very soon take care bye for now you you you you you