S3, Ep.10 - Leadership Myths That Hold New Managers Back: Why You Shouldn't be the Smartest Person in the Room

Introduction

0:00Welcome to Organizational Sherlock's, the podcast where business meets psychology and your organizational puzzles meet their match. Join us for captivating stories and practical solutions to unravel your toughest challenges. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Lemming. And I'm Morgan Ashworth, your guides to a prescription for business success. Let's dive in. I'm excited

0:31for this episode, listeners, simply because I do feel it's a common topic, but I'm not so sure that you get into the nitty gritty behind it. You know, a lot of professionals will bring up leadership and what's the right type of leader and how to be a leader, but with actually some phrases we're going to talk about, but they don't get into the deeper reasoning behind that. And so I'm excited that

Leadership Myth

0:57Elizabeth and I are going to get into it today. Yeah, I am as well. And honestly, I think if you're okay with it, it might be kind of fun to come at this from a myth perspective. I know we've alluded to this topic kind of in the past in our conversations, specifically around the fact that leadership tends to be a different job than maybe what you've done in the past. And sometimes there are technical leaders and then there are people leaders and all of that. And so we're really going to be focusing our energy today on people leaders. Okay. So the people who have folks

1:30to report to them, who lead people within their organization. But if you're okay with it, Morgan, I think the myth busting perspective sounds kind of fun for me. So I'm hoping you want to play that game today. Well, of course, that's what we do here. We're Sherlock's. That's right. Hey, good point. Good point. Kind of forgot that. Yeah, right. So I do want to like, I guess I want to kind of start off by just saying that, you know, in my experience, and I'd be curious if your experience is similar or different in any way. In my experience, a lot of the leaders that I have seen who've been promoted

2:05into leadership get there because they're doing their work and they do it really well. Right. So we want to think about that and kind of that technical space. Right. And so you kind of are identified as a high performer in whatever way and maybe get into that leadership position. I'm not suggesting that that's a bad thing by any means, because I think there can be a lot of power there. But I do think

Technical Leaders

2:28it's worth a conversation of, you know, are you interested in being a people leader? Are you interested in being a technical leader? Are you interested in leadership at all? Right. So I just before we kind of get into the myth busting, I just wanted to see if a different experience or if that's kind of how you've seen it as well. Yeah. You know, I'll be honest, because I've been lucky that I came in from the HR side of business. And so because of that, I was automatically involved in the HR strategy. And simply with my education, with my experience, I've always been able to have a say

2:59or have a necessarily say, but have an input when it comes to those types, the types of people we do promote. So while I would agree in the average environment, that good performers are the best performers are those that are often promoted, not so much in my experience, because I knew about the myth, and I pre busted it for these organizations. And so instead of the best performer, I was focused on

3:31not only a good performer, but also someone that had skill sets or to be that people leader. Or people that I highlighted as a good performer that we then trained to be ready to become a people leader, if that makes sense. So gauging that interest. So I'd say I do agree with you that that is the average trend. A lot of organizations, I see in a lot of organizations, especially when I first come in. But while in them, I don't necessarily see that trend simply because I've already been able

4:03to have that input as an HR strategist and a business strategist for those organizations. So I've been a little lucky. But all in all, yes, there is the myth that only the best performers are promoted. But is that the best thing for an organization? Yeah, no, and I appreciate that perspective. I think what I'm hearing you say or what I'm highlighting in my mind is that there's some intentionality there to do things different. Because it is a lot

People Leadership

4:30of times, you know, and I can say myself included, right? The I'm sure you too, or you as well, but that that credibility or credibility in what we do really does a lot of times come from the building of that expertise in whatever area, right? And a lot of times, not all the time, I'm not suggesting this is the case all the time. But a lot of times people don't just jump into immediately to a people leadership role, right? They do work in that technical area, they fit kind of learn about it, whether it's software development, or HR, or finance, or whatever area it is, they develop that

5:05deep expertise in that area. And that's when the people leaders at that time start seeing, oh, there's potential here. And then then as a business leader, as a business owner, that gives you an opportunity to really make a choice and use that intention in a way, you know, do we invest in those other skills, those people leadership skills? Do we, or do we just say, you're going to be great as it is, let's see how it goes. And what I'm hearing you say is that you maybe lean towards the re providing resources, training, helping people scale up. And I think that that's a really

5:40cool thing. Yeah, even years ahead of time, I feel like as soon as a person is recognized as a possible leader down the road, even years from then, they might get highlighted as someone that gets involved in different types of trainings, or, you know, we're giving training to our team consistently in some of the organizations I work with. And, and with that, you know, not every team member is pulled for every training either. And so it doesn't seem favoritist in a manner.

6:10But I actually, I kind of want to talk about the converse of the myth, if you're okay with that, too. So yeah, if I, if before we grow, I just wanted to say one last thing, because I and maybe it teased it up a little bit, because I think that based on what you're saying, right, and what we're talking about right now, one of the biggest conversations I've been having with leaders recently who maybe have been struggling a little bit, is that they're really great technical experts, but that technical expertise is the thing that's actually holding them back from being a really solid people leader.

Leadership Development

6:43So I don't know if that tees it up for what you were going to say, but I just wanted to make sure I got that in before we jump into the actualness. Yeah, so actually, the converse I was going to say is those people that aren't people leaders, but want to be and have that technical expertise. And so I see the question a lot of what about us who feel we get left behind, because we're the quote, best performers, but the company doesn't want to promote us because we're good at what we do. And so we get stagnated. We want promotions, but we don't get them. And so that is a question I've seen with some individuals. And oftentimes,

7:20people want to have to be promoted, and to reach the next level. And usually, there's promotions within that technical expertise to, you know, there's level ones, level twos, or even just like different types of positions with a little bit more autonomy that you get over time, you know, being your own personal people leader, individual people leader, instead of being a people leader of a group. Um, and those promotions are great. But what about those people that feel they've hit their, their max, they've hit their level. And the next step, the only next step is a people leader.

7:51Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah. Those are all really good questions to think about. I mean, I don't know that there's a one right answer. You know, I think that's where, again, if we go to solid people leadership, that's where you start having all those questions, or you ask those questions, and discuss and get into deep discussion and help all the data, use all the data you have,

8:21whether that's actual data, like quantitative, or just even more informal, qualitative conversations to really help you figure out kind of what goes next and what the strategy needs to look like. You know what I mean? Yeah, well, I was gonna know it depends just like every individual criminal case study. It depends the situations surrounding each and every study is different. Each detective, detective might have a different strategy to what they're doing, they might share strategies, but they have to adjust what the current environment is detailing. And I would argue

8:54it's the same for those quote, technical leaders, who either want to or don't want to become people leaders, you have to take it on a case by case basis. It depends. All in all, though, I think where we're getting towards is, well, if it depends, then how do we know they're going to be a good people leader? And how do we target them for training? And what do they need to be able to do in that people leadership role that's different than a technical leadership role?

9:27Yeah, I completely agree. I think a lot of times I recommend to my clients that we give them small tasks where they not tasks, but projects maybe, or lower risk projects where they get to lead people to see how it goes. And that way, we can really target and tailor the training or the development opportunities like coaching or whatever it might be, in a way that's really meaningful and helpful for them. And not just this kind of standard cookie cutter, this is what a leadership or this is what a leader looks like type of thing, like that we can really tailor it for what the people need. And I

10:01think that's really important. Opportunities to present those skill sets they already have and to manage individuals in a way that gives them that autonomy without giving them too much. It's almost like an inference of how they'll do. It's a case study. It's a small portion of this, like it's a small case study, but then you can take and expand it and with, you know, strategic inference, realize what they would do in a larger role like that.

10:35Yeah. And that's actually, I don't know, we're not getting to the myths. We're going to get there, though, I promise. But that's actually one of my favorite parts about my job is more the process consulting side of things. And so as a coach, I work with people when they're given those projects, I sit with them and I sit with their teams and I give them feedback and help them learn real time instead of saying in the end, well, it wasn't successful or it was only kind of successful. What could have went differently? It's more of a real time situation. And I think that is just such a, it is such a profound experience for people. And also it's not just a focus on deficits or

11:13weaknesses. It's a focus on also the strength side of things. Like what are you bringing to the table that's really uniquely you and that will help your team be successful? I think we can focus on the both and we don't need to just focus on the either or. I really strongly believe that. And I will probably go to my grave saying the both. And my children make fun of me because I do this weird inflection with my voice when I am talking to them and they're getting really rigid in their thinking. And I say, are you sure there's not an and? And then they laugh at me and tell me that I'm weird

11:47in all the things. Anyway, we don't need to talk about my kids, but it is something that I will definitely go to my grave saying. Now I feel like, yeah, now I feel like we've laid a great foundation of like the pre-people leader of where you're, how you kind of get into that level. But what are those myths of leadership that people think exist? And let's, you know, let's bust those myths. So what

Myths of Leadership

12:10are those myths that people think they need to have or for skill sets or, or knowledge? Yeah. Okay. So I want to just set the tone. Imagine there is a leader in an organization, a people leader. We are talking about people leadership here, listeners. So imagine there is a people leader in an organization and they believe that they need to know everything that their team does. Would you Morgan say that that is a myth or is that a truth?

12:39I would argue that it is a myth. Why? I'd argue that a myth. One of my favorite terms to bring up is actually the asymmetric information bias. It's the idea that your team will always have a better understanding of what's happening on the floor than that leader will, since the leader's not seeing every day. But I think we can expand that asymmetric information bias into skill sets and expertise. You know, I've helped run manufacturing environments. Do I know how to run the machinery? No. Do I have

13:15an idea of how the machinery might be run? Yes. Could I problem solve it? Could I get into the nitty gritty? Yeah, but not to the deeper level that one of my machine operators could, right? And so asymmetric information bias, it's actually an important need in organizations. And that's why leaders should focus on trust so that when they need to be brought information, they are for what they need to know, but they don't need to know everything at the same time. So I would say myth, me as a leader, I don't,

13:51that, do I need to know everything my team does? No, that's a myth. I don't need to know everything my team does. Would you agree? I would agree. And I think that's actually a very strategic decision as a leader. You should have a high level of what, you know, what's going on with your team and to your point, what your team member skill sets are so that you can strategically place them in positions that help the team be successful, right? And so I do think the, as a leader, your responsibility

14:21should be really about understanding, you know, what goals are, what the goals are, what the strategic goals are, both for the organization, as well as your team. You should be aware of what barriers or constraints exist so that you can, as the people leader, create a situation where you're breaking those barriers down and helping your team be successful. And you should have an idea of what the impact is, but I don't, I really, the reason it becomes a myth is because when we say everything, we mean everything. You don't need to know every step of the process, right? You don't need to know

14:56it intimately or have done it yourself. You need to know kind of what is it going to take to meet those goals and how can you empower your team to get there? So your manufacturing or production example, I think is really effective in illustrating that. You don't need to know every tiny micro step of that machine, but understanding what it does, how it impacts your team, how it impacts the people and how it impacts your customers. That's what's important. And you can empower your team to continue

15:27building their skillset, their technical skillset without needing to know how to do it themselves. Yeah. And I think we can also, you know, bust that myth by discussing the converse. You know, as a leader, I'm not expecting, I'm say I'm managing 10 people. I'm not expecting all those 10 people to know what the other nine are doing or to know what I'm doing, right? If we're not going to hold our people like accountable or responsible for knowing what the rest of their team knows or what the greater team knows, or even what the leader knows, why are we holding, why would the leader hold

16:02themselves accountable to know every single piece that each of those people do? I do feel that you end up wasting time. If you're doing this, you're wasting time on knowing things that are so granular that take time away from the things that are, have those greater impacts that are more strategic. Um, you know, an executive, oftentimes their team doesn't see the work they're doing as an executive team member, because you're focusing on the direction of the company and you need time to

16:36think, develop, strategize more of a subconscious slash conscious process. And your team's not seeing you do that. And you might be unavailable for your team at that point in time. So they don't quote, see you working, but you're working as an executive. And I'm sure plenty of higher level team members, directors, executives, especially, especially notice this where their teams don't see them working. And so sometimes they, they have like that, that break. Um, but you're not going to

17:07hold your team member that's, you know, working on the floor to know what you know. So why are you going to hold yourself responsible to know what they know? Yeah, no, I agree there. Um, it's making me think of a blog that I wrote one time about, um, leadership is like being a pilot of a plane, right. Where you, you really get to have that 30,000 foot view and think about the what ifs and, you know, all of those things. Um, it's important to be able to land the plane as a leader. Right. And so again, if you think about pilot, they know how to fly up in the air where there's not so much

17:41going on. I mean, not as many things right up in the clouds. Um, but they also know how to land the plane. Right. But they're not the mechanics, you know, they're not the ones fixing the plane. They're not the ones that are stocking the plane or making sure that the jet bridge makes it perfectly to the door. Right. That there are other people like you're getting your snacks and your seat. Right. Like there, it is, they, you can, as a leader, both take that 30,000 foot view and also be in it with, with your employees without having to 100% absolutely know how to do, not even know, like

18:17just be in the everyday, um, kind of inner workings of, of their role, which brings me kind of to a second, another myth, um, that I'd like to, to throw at you, which is this idea that it has a leader. Again, we're using the same leadership scenario, but if I, the leader can't do my employee's job, I can't lead them. What do you think about that? I kind of gave it away. I said it was a myth. Sorry. Okay. Just tell me why. I mean, it is a myth. You are right. I think I'm going to,

18:48I'm going to claim everyone as a myth anyway. When you bring up, that's what we're doing. We're busting these, these topics, right? Um, if I can't do their job, I can't lead them. Well, no, I still think you can lead them via mindset, via the strategy or the problem solving skills they have. Your job is to help them get to where they need to be, not to get them where they like to get them where they need to be. It's the idea of, um, you can like teach a man to, you can teach a man to fish

19:20or you can give him fish. If you give him fish, then he'll eat for a day. If you teach him how to fish, he'll eat for his life, his entire life. Right. Um, and you don't need to do their job in order to lead them simply because your job is to understand how theirs connects to others. And then even know who else might need, who might be able to help them. Yes. They should also know that. And that's something you're a goal of yours should be is what resources does this person have

19:53and can't, do they know what resources to go out to, to problem solve if I can't help, or if they can't figure it out on themselves. Um, kind of want to bring an example, you know, no matter your opinion, I think this is a great example. They say that Elon Musk travels to all of his, um, organizations, all of his companies once a week. And he asks each of them, what is your biggest problem? And the team, the company as a whole comes together and they give them,

20:25the one biggest problem. And he helps them solve that one biggest problem. Doesn't mean he helps them solve all of the problems, but it gives them an idea of the direction that the leader of the company wants to go in and assists them within problem solving, but doesn't take it over and doesn't tell them directly what to do. If that makes sense. Yeah. I think it, I mean, I think just in general, it's about creating space, right. And building a relationship in a way where people can bring those problems forward or, um, you know, bring creative solutions forward. You know,

21:01if I come in and I, you can even liken this to being a parent, like if I come in and fix every interpersonal conflict that exists between my kids and their friends, like they will never learn how to do that themselves. And I, um, I think we had, we had a podcast guest on a while back and, um, LMG Lindsay, and she said something about like adults are just like small children with a mortgage. Do you remember that episode? That was my favorite. Um, and so I think about that and it's like, it's true, right? The same with my children. Um, I can't fix all of their issues. They need to learn

21:37how to do that. And my job as a leader, as a mom is to help develop the skillsets, create space for them to brainstorm and think and try to figure out what do I want to do next? Right. And also I will add, um, offer them the opportunity to try something, even if it doesn't quite work, you know? And I, and I think because those experiences are incredibly important. Now I know I'm referring to this as like a mom and all of that. And so if we have parents on the, as listeners, you may

22:08maybe feel or have some kind of connection to that story. But I also look at that in my work, right? If, and even think about it as a coach, like if I'm coaching and I tell you everything to do, it's not going to be as effective, um, as is giving you the opportunity to learn and to build skills. And the way you do that is through the relationship building, creating space and, and kind of building that trust between, you know, leader and employee or coach and coachee or parent and child.

22:39Yeah. Well, you actually bring in psychology's, um, situational leadership theory. There's, you know, I'm coaching this person, but if I'm just telling them what to do, if you're just dictating or directing them, what to do is the synonymous term there, um, depending on which version of theory you read. Um, if you're just directing them on what to do, you're just dictating what they do. They are kind of like a robot. They just do what they're told and that's it. They never help themselves. They're always going to come to you for the answers. And yes. And so in,

23:14in essence, you shouldn't know how to do their entire job for them because it is their job to be able to complete their tasks without direction, without black and white, do this, then do this, then do this, then do this. They need to be able to think for themselves. Right. Um, and so in situational leadership, you talk about directing, then you talk about coaching, and then you talk about supporting, and then you talk about delegation. And so there's a kind of a concept of

23:45you, depending on the situation, you're going to use one of these, these, um, methods of leadership. But at the same time, I actually use this as a training method of, if you want to get them to delegation, especially a new hire, you kind of have to go through those four phases and you still will jump between them depending on the situation. It's your job to know what to do as a leader in that scenario, which method to use direct coach support or delegate rather than to be able to

24:16complete their job for them. If that makes sense. Absolutely. Yeah. No, I completely agree. I'd argue that leads us into another question. Sure. So as a leader, does your value come from having the answers? Well, of course I would argue, no, I do not think it does. Um, but, um, I think while it can be, well, okay. So let me think about it this way. Like if you, when you are in an expert role, it can be nice to have the answers, right? And it might feel good to have the answers and all

24:49of those things, right? When you're in people leadership though, it's about empowering your team and creating environments where they can have the answers. And I would argue that your team having the answers or coming up with a really cool solution or whatever it might be is actually like a reflection of your leadership and your skill in that area, um, when you're creating those environments. So no, I do not believe it comes from having the answers. I, again, as we've talked about even in this episode, I think it's really about figuring out what those constraints are, those

25:25barriers, helping to break them down. We've talked about training, um, and coaching and development. So helping to develop your people. Um, and I also think it's about offering, um, clarity around kind of where are we going? Um, why not necessarily how we're going to get there. And I think I can think of a few examples where, you know, there wasn't as much clarity or there could have been more clarity. Um, and when the leader does, isn't able to provide that, well,

25:58and actually I'm going to, I'm going to argue, I think it's a two way street. I think if you, the employee don't have feel like you don't have clarity, you need to ask your leader and let them know that I don't feel clear on this. Can you give me a little bit more clarity? And it is the leader's responsibility not to say what you didn't hear me, but to say, yeah, let's talk about it. What's unclear about this and how can I make it more clear for you? Right. Um, and so I think again, two way street and communication there. It's, it's, Hey, I didn't quite get everything. Right. And so that's an ownership

26:32of the person of the, of the, um, staff member of the employee. And then the leader, the ownership is, okay, let's see how we can clarify. Like, what do you need clarity on? And yes, let me help you gain that better understanding. Yeah. I'm a huge question asker. Um, instead of just jumping into solution, I mean, I, I should say personally, I am someone who likes to solve problems and get things done and be really efficient in that. That is like my personal kind of personality, I guess, if you will. However, as a people leader, I feel that using questions is much

27:07more effective than just jumping into solutions, especially because without the questions, you don't always know what the true problem is. You kind of need to dig a couple layers deeper, um, because oftentimes the problem that's presented is not the actual problem. Yeah. So, um, it's funny to note that because, you know, questions coming from a team member to the leader, but then also questions as a leader to the team member to, to understand. Um, I actually had a conversation this week on this. I'm always having conversations surrounding whatever we're talking about in the podcast, it seems, but Hey, because I'm a leader in organizations,

27:41right. Um, and I actually had a conversation of, well, maybe we should ask about this with curiosity instead. Um, look at that term curiosity with an organizational Sherlock, right? Ask about what you want to know, or if you're, if you're wanting to know something on the floor, um, and you want to see that the manager is handling it correctly, ask with curiosity. Say like, Hey, how's that going? Or how are you feeling about this? And see where they, what they answer. Cause if you ask with curiosity, you're, you're asking with a level of openness to the manager's opinion, and you're

28:14trying to develop that manager, obviously to be self-sufficient entirely doesn't mean they're not going to need check-ins every so often, um, for greater vision or greater plans. Um, but you're asking with curiosity, giving more openness, having them answer more truthfully, and then being able to, if you ask a follow-up question, help them critically think on their own without directing them without criticizing them at times. Not to say that constructive criticism direct is not

28:45never necessary. That's a double negative. Shouldn't have said it that way. Not to say that constructive criticism shouldn't be used ever, but sometimes the way you approach it can help, you know, teach a man to fish as, as I was saying. Um, same thing on, there's a problem that's noted by one person. So trying to understand why a certain process was followed or the not, the process was not followed even just asking questions to clarify, to see where the person's understanding is first, before you give

29:20direction or before you reteach, um, or even helping them think strategically again on their own. Um, if you're the leader that has all the answers and no one else has the answers, your team will not be able to run without you. And that's not what you want. You want your team to be able to run efficiently and effectively without you there. Successful leadership means that your team's running well with you. Effective leadership means that your team is running well, even without you at times.

29:56Doesn't mean that you don't, you don't step in and you don't help out, but if their team is running efficiently and effectively without your constant, consistent input, that means that you've probably done well in building the team you need. You go from an expert to an architect at that point in time, you've been building this team to be self-managing. Right. Right. And I think one, you know, as we kind of wrap up our episode today, I think one way to kind of do some self-reflection

30:26on this and to think about if you are a leader or if you are being led by a leader, um, you may ask, you know, if you, if, if you disappeared or had to learn, let's make it better than that. Like if you went on vacation for 30 days, would the work stop or would it continue? Yeah. And I want to add a third one. Did the work stop? Did the work continue? Did the work continue and go in the wrong direction? I mean, there's that, but then we have a different problem, I think,

30:59but I agree. But if your answer is that the work stops, it means that you are still doing the technical work. Right. Um, or to your point, kind of curbing issues that come up because people don't have the skills to do the work. Right. Um, if your answer to that question is that the work continues, that means more than likely that you're doing an okay job or a pretty effective job at leading, right? Because you have empowered your team to do the work and understand the technical aspects of it.

31:32So I think overall, this is just something that I've been thinking a lot about. It's come up with

Effective Leadership

31:37some of my clients. Um, and, um, I'm hoping this will be a helpful episode for folks. Um, and even though it can be, and I'm going to make a joke here a little bit, but like, even though it can be fun to be super duper smart, don't get me wrong. I really enjoy like knowing something that I, that I get to teach someone. I love teaching, right. As a leader, your job is not to be the smartest person in the room or be the smartest person on the team. It is exactly what

32:09you said, Morgan, all about building a team that becomes smarter because you have led them to that place of becoming smarter. So I will say it again. Your job is not to be the smartest person in the room. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, if you're the smartest person in the room, you're going to lack growth yourself and your team is going to lack growth because they're not going to necessarily be able to get to your level or surpass your level and certain pieces of expertise. Right. Um, I would say that if you thought any of these questions were truth and not myth, then you might have a little bit of

32:44control anxiety as a leader. Um, meaning that you think you need to know everything in order to best lead your team. Try to ask yourself the questions, try to revisit it, use some of the methods we've discussed, think of the metaphors we've talked about and see if you, you can adjust your approach a little bit. Um, your job as leader, yes, is not to be the expert. It's to be the architect of the teams, to build the team of experts surrounding you. And then to multiply that across the board,

33:19multiply the ability to problem solve. So it's not again, just you. Um, so that instead of having the control, there's more clarity within the team. And then finally, don't just give the answers, ask the questions that get the person to giving you the answer whenever possible. Um, and I just like to make this last note is even if your team problem solves or decides on a solution that is different than the way you would have done it, take a look inwards. Is what they did

33:52a solution that worked versus your solution? Because sometimes the way they solve is going to be different than the way you solve. That does not mean it's a bad thing unless obviously it's, you know, putting the team in the wrong direction or opening you up for compliance issues, right? Just because they don't problem solve and solve in the same way you do does not mean it's the wrong way. Um, that's one thing that I would say that I had to even overcome as a leader. I want people to,

34:24you know, use terminology in the way I would use it, uh, to write a customer email the way I would. That's never going to happen. We all think differently, but we can have similar approaches all in all. So. Absolutely. Yeah. Nope. I completely agree. And I think this was a great episode. Thank you for having this conversation with me again, as you, you said before, it just feels like everything kind of swirls around and like the conversations you have become just, I'm like, it's becomes my day and then what I think about. So I think that really speaks to why we did this podcast to begin with

35:00though. That curiosity piece is like so strong in both of our lives. And, and I think that's really what it's about. So thank you for having the conversation with me. Um, listeners, if you have thoughts, you have questions, you have anything you want to say, please share with us. We're happy to hear and to engage you with us in our curiosity. So with that, this concludes another intriguing episode of Organizational Sherlock's. I'm Elizabeth Fleming. And I'm Morgan Ashworth reminding you that the journey to success is an ongoing investigation. Stay curious, stay strategic, and keep utilizing

35:34insights to decode your business mysteries. Join us every Friday for your next whodunit. This is Organizational Sherlock's closing today's case. We will see you all next time.