Episode 1004: Apple HomeView, HomePod mini 2, and more from 'Welcome Home'

Welcome to the macro podcast

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1:00Unscripted, unfiltered, unafraid. Welcome to the Macro Podcast. My name is Michael Simon, and I am joined by my colleague, Jason Cross. Good morning. And our producer, Roman Loyola. Hi there. This is episode number 1004. If you listened to last week's show, I teased that David Price was going to be on the talk about Apple Watch. We just lied. Yeah, yeah. We got later in the week, Apple announced that they were doing this welcome home thing yesterday.

1:33So that got bumped to next week. If you've been dying to hear about the Apple Watch Series 12, you're going to have to wait another week. This week is all about the new stuff that came out yesterday. Well, one new thing, Home View, and two updated things, HomePod Mini 2 and Apple TV 4K 4K. It drives me crazy that some things get numbers and some things get generations. Right. I mean, that's neither here nor there, but it is HomePod Mini 2 officially on Apple's website.

2:04And it's Apple TV 4K 4K 4K generation. So we'll talk about all that stuff, what we like, what we don't like, what we're buying, what we're not buying, whatever comes up. There's a lot of interesting things to talk about. A lot of, Jason has some angry things you want to talk about. There's a lot here. Not necessarily angry. Well, you really like it. But yeah.

2:28And then we're going to have, this week we're going to have a history and we'll close with our comment corner. Speaking of comments, you can contact us through BlueSky Facebook Threads, search for Macworld, look for the Blue Mouse logo, send an email to podcast.macworld.com. Just get in touch with us. Tell us what you think of the new stuff, what you're buying, what you're not buying. We'll talk about them on a future show.

Apple announces three new products

2:49All right. So yesterday at 9 a.m. Eastern time, which was 6 a.m. Pacific time, which is super early for you guys, Apple held its, it's called Welcome Home. They called it an experience, but it was really only an experience for the people who were in New York City, which was not the three of us. And they announced at 9 a.m. three new products. The HomePod Mini 2, which was six years ago when the HomePod Mini came out. And they haven't really updated it since then.

3:20It's gotten, you know, software updates and it got a new color, but it's essentially the same model from six years ago. So there's a new one of those. Right. There's a new Apple TV 4K, which was last updated in 2024 with the third gen model. And there is now this smart home hub that we've been writing about forever calling it HomePad, which I still think would have been a good name considering what it looks like and how Apple wants you to use it. But they're calling it HomeView, which also makes sense.

3:53So those are the three new things you can buy. You can pre-order them now. The HomePod and the Apple TV, they'll come out, I think it's October 30th. Yeah, October 30th. And then the HomeView isn't coming out till November 13th.

4:12So let's start with the least interesting, which is, well, Jason's going to get upset, though. Sorry. Well, let's start there. Let's start with Apple TV because. Yeah.

The new Apple TV 4K specs

4:28So, all right. Forget about, like, let's say we know nothing about Apple TV. We're just looking at the specs. What's new? Not much. It has a new chip. Yeah, compared to the 2022 model, the third gen. Or even the second gen, really. It's got the A19.

4:48It has a couple of far-field microphones built into it. Right, which was odd that it never did before, but yeah. Yeah, you had to hold down the little mic button on the Siri remote. Now you don't need to do that. Right. And it has an updated Siri remote with Find My. With a little speaker. With Precision, Precision Find My. I think it had Find My, but now it has a microphone. Find My with Precision Find My, Precision Finding. And a little speaker so it could do a little chirp, which it never had before.

5:22Right. Which, that's the key. That's the one you want because you just want to yell at Siri, where's my remote? And have it make a noise so you can find it in the couch cushions, right? Right. That's about it. That's about it. Gigabit Ethernet was an option on the third gen. Now it's there. It was $30 more. Now it's included in the... Right. Basically, they're not letting you buy a non-Ethernet version.

5:53128 gigs is the only storage option. Twice as much as before, the highest end before. No, it's the Ethernet version of the third gen was 128 gigs as well. Oh, was it? Oh, so it's the same. I thought it was 64. It was 64 without Ethernet or 128 with Ethernet. Okay. So, I'll double check that. But... Well, I'm just going to say that the Apple TV 4K should have an Ethernet port.

6:27Like, I understand a lot of people use it with Wi-Fi, but... Yeah, most people, I assume. It's one of those devices that is going to sit in a spot for as long as you own it. And you want it to have the best possible connection. A lot of people have routers nearby. And I have a second gen and I have it connected to Ethernet. It's the only thing in my house that's connected to Ethernet because you want a stable connection when you're streaming movies and videos and stuff. And you're not going to move it. So, it always kind of irritated me that Apple took away the Ethernet port on the cheaper model,

7:01the 129 model back with the third gen. But that's not here nor there because that doesn't exist anymore. You can't buy it without Ethernet. Correct. And you can't buy a 64-gig version or anything. It's only on Ethernet. Yeah, I don't know how many people have Ethernet near their TV. But for those who do, it's definitely like the most stable connection. Like, it's what you would want to use if you've got it. Right? And it's not expensive. Ethernet ports are... Gigabit Ethernet ports are so cheap. Right. Like, it has...

7:37That's really all that's new about it. And you can buy... The little status light is now in the center rather than the right corner, which I'm not quite sure why. I think it's... Yeah, I don't know. It does light up when the mics are on. You know? Which they only turn on when you say the Siri code word that I'm not going to say. So that... Yep.

8:03Yeah, and you can buy the new remote separately and it works on the second and third gen. Right. So if you only... $59. Yeah, if you're only like, I want Find My, then you can just pay $59 and just get the remote instead of getting the whole thing. I don't understand why they put an A19 in it and then it doesn't do anything. Right. It's faster. Right. Obviously.

8:33So there'll be a Siri AI app. The Siri app will be on the TV and it'll support Siri AI. And it'll do it by itself, but they're also updating the second and third gen, which means going all the way back to 2021, like Apple TVs, to also have the Siri AI app and it'll just use your nearby phone. So you don't really need that.

9:03Like you don't need to go buy a new $400 setup. When it says use your... Like maybe you don't know the answer to this, but when it says use your nearby phone... Yeah. ...will like Siri pop up on your phone and it'll be displayed on the TV or will it just use the connection and have everything... I found some web accounts. Oh, I... Ha ha. Gotcha. Yeah. It uses... As far as I understand, it works the way things like Apple Watch or your AirPods

9:36or whatever work. It's just sending your request from the little Siri remote microphone to your iPhone. Your iPhone does the processing. It sends the result back to your Apple TV to display on the TV screen. So I think it's just, yeah, it's just basically like a separate Bluetooth device. It's just sending the request to your iPhone, which is great. It's neat. I feel like it's awesome that that older hardware is getting that support for the new thing.

10:07As long as you've got an iPhone that works with Siri AI, you don't need to buy a new one. But then I'm also going, God, it's twice as expensive now. Yeah. So that's the rub. Yeah. They raised the price a lot earlier this year on the third gen, right? In June. The gigabit version was $149, and then in June, it went up to $249, right? Yeah. When Apple increased the prices on Macs and iPads, that was one of the things that went

10:40up. The HomePod mini went up to $129. The HomePod went up to $349 from $299. And the Apple TV went up from $149 to $249, which at the time we were like, whoa, that's a couple years old. Right. Yeah, it was already pretty expensive at $149. I mean, it had gotten cheaper over the years. It was $199 forever, and then $179. So, you know, $149 comparatively to older Apple TVs was cheaper, but it's still a lot compared to, you know, fire sticks and things like that.

11:13But $249 was like, we just can't recommend a two-year-old streaming device. There's three at the time, almost four. It came out in 2022. Oh, I thought it was $244. Oh, okay. Yeah. And the price, and the price, and it has, had been $149 since launch. That was the best thing. I think that's what we wrote in the review. The best thing about it, because the second gen was the year before, it was 2021. A third gen came out in 2022, and it wasn't that different, but it was a lot cheaper.

11:45It launched at $129 for no Ethernet and 64 gigs and $149 for Ethernet and 128 gigs, and it was $149 for years. And now it's like, hey, I'm going to buy this four-year-old thing for $100 more. For $100 more, yeah. Yeah. So we assumed that Apple was basically setting us up for, you know, here's the fourth gen model. It's $249. It's a better chip, but. Right. No, now they raised the price by another $50. I know. It's crazy.

12:16The Apple TV star set for the first time in a long time. I think the original, like, skinny little box was $300 way back in the day. But now you got to pay $299 to get in to an Apple TV 4K, which is just outrageously high. That is just so much more expensive than every other set-top box. Yeah. Well. Except for. Like the NVIDIA Shield. That's also old. That cost $300. That cost $300 in 2018.

12:48No, no. They raised it, like, a couple weeks ago. Oh, okay. From $199 to $299. I don't know if anyone's actually buying that, but NVIDIA raised the price of that quietly to $299. The NVIDIA Shield Pro, if anyone's buying that. I don't remember what that launched at, but I don't know if it went down and back up or what.

Missing features on Apple TV

13:07But that's kind of the only one. And there's all this stuff that people wanted from an Apple TV that they were hoping, like, enthusiasts who would buy a $400 set-top box, like, or $300, $299, $300 set-top box would want, and it's not there. Like, there's no audio pass-through. There's no just, like, raw bitstream audio pass-through. For HDMI, yeah.

13:37Yeah. Like, still, after all these years, like, just raw bitstream pass-through to a receiver because my receiver is going to decode the Dolby Atmos or whatever. Like, you can't, you still can't do that. It's crazy. It's crazy that they support HDMI 2.1. They did on the third gen, and it's still capped out at 4K 60 hertz. Right. We used to say, well, it's, what, an A15 or whatever. It's not going to matter. But now it's got an A19.

14:09Like, there are definitely games, like, some of their lighter games and some other things that could easily run at 120 hertz on your 120 hertz 4K TV. And it's just not there. So, like, it's so weird that they put a big, powerful chip in it, and it's just not. Those are the kind of features that, you know, 95%, maybe more, of the public would never notice or care about. Yeah.

14:39And if this was a $100 set-top box, it would just go, like, sure. But this is clearly in the enthusiast space now. Like, yeah, well, that's what I was going to say. So, for $300, they're targeting a pretty niche audience. If you want a streaming, if you want stream, first of all, everything comes with streaming. TVs come with a built-in, and most people are going to use that stuff. Most people. But if you want a separate thing, you can get, I'm looking on, I'm looking on Amazon, the Fire TV Stick 4K Plus with, well, whatever.

15:124K Plus Wi-Fi 6 is $70. I, on my porch, I have a projector that we watch movies outside, and I have a, so I have one of these. And it's not great, but it does what it's supposed to do. It's fine. Yeah. It streams, it streams video at high quality, and the menus aren't great. There's ads all over the place, but who cares? It does what it's supposed to do. And most people, that's all they're looking for.

15:45Show me Netflix. Show me Prime TV video. Whatever you want to watch. And they're, like, they're just, if they weren't selling them at $150, they're not going to sell them at $300. And I think that's probably why Apple chose this device to raise the price. We'll talk about Home View in a second. But Home View is the same price as an Apple TV with a screen and a speaker. And I have to assume, and I don't know, I'm not privy to Apple's financials or their margins or anything,

16:19but they're probably making a wider margin on every Apple TV 4K sold than they are on a new Home View. Because Home View is a larger market than the Apple TV 4K. I really wonder what the price difference is between an A18 and an A19 to manufacture. And I wonder how much storage is in the Home View. Like, we don't know. I think it's 128. Doesn't it say that in those tech specs? We'll get to that later. But I think it's...

16:50We'll get to that.

16:53Maybe not. I don't know. I don't remember seeing it written anywhere, but that could just be that I didn't look closely enough.

17:02Because Flash is one of those things that's also just getting, like, crushed lately. Right. But, yeah, if you've got a fourth gen, like, there's absolutely no streaming app or jumping around to anything that is made better by an A19. Like, that's already just as fast as it could be. Like, there's just nothing there, right? So, and you can do the Siri AI by the remote if you really need Find My in the remote.

Find My and remote precision

17:33We should mention a bit about the Find My. It works with everything normal. You say, where's my remote? It plays the noise, whatever.

17:46The precision finding works only with other Apple products that have an N1 chip. Right. So you need an iPhone 17 Air 18 Duo. Not the 17E, for whatever that's called. Not the 17E, correct, yeah. Only Apple products that have the N1 chip because it doesn't use ultra-wideband like other things with precision finding.

18:17There's no ultra-wideband chip in that remote. It has the N1 chip. It has Bluetooth 6. Bluetooth 6 has a new feature called something sounding, channel sounding, which just basically does the vector and range calculation stuff like ultra-wideband using Bluetooth low energy, right? So it basically pulls the same trick ultra-wideband does to give you, down to within a few centimeters, how far away something is.

18:48Mm-hmm. But using Bluetooth LE, this is the first product Apple's released, and one of the first I've seen at all, that uses this channel sounding feature. But that means that you have to have a Bluetooth 6 on your device you're finding it with, you know. Right, which is most of the newer, all the newer phones. Yeah, it's all the 17s and up, except for the 17E. So if you've got a 16 or a 15 Pro, it's going to do Find My, but it's not going to do the precision thing where you walk 10 feet away in this direction and you walk up to it and stuff like that.

19:25It's just going to play a noise. Right, which you'll probably be able to find your remote, but this is the kind of thing, like a remote is the kind of thing that you want precise location for because you know it's in the house. Like you know it's even in your living room. Yeah, you'll hear the chirp and you're like, where is that? I know it's in here. I hear it. I actually had- It'd be nice to walk around with the thing. Once in my life, I used precision finding. I had my iPhone, I couldn't find it, and I had it like 10 minutes prior, and my wife called and we heard the buzz, and we're like, where the heck is it?

20:04Like I know it's around here, like in this general area, I couldn't find it. So I used on her phone, I used the precision finding thing, and it led me to my bed where I had just put a blanket on top of the bed, and my phone was, I have the arrow was so thin, I couldn't even see. And I was able to find it using the precision finding. Right. So that precision finding is pretty damn cool. Yeah, if you've lost your phone, but you've got your watch on, and you just ask, where's my phone,

20:35or you hit the little chirp thing in the control center on your phone, it'll do the precision finding right away. It'll like show the arrow and walk you to your phone. Right, yeah, yeah, right. It's like a hide and seek thing. Yeah, where I have used it, and I love, is it works with Find My for people, as long as you both have a modern iPhone with ultrawide band. So I have used it like in Costco, like where's my wife? And I'll open up Find My, and I'll go like, take me to her, and it points the arrow and goes,

21:08all right, she's like 100 yards that way. Not 100 yards, but like 100 feet. Costco's pretty big. Yeah, and it's very easy to not see somebody as you're looking around, and you could be walking in opposite directions forever, not finding each other. So yeah, I've used it in like a large store to take me to my wife. It works great, too. It's surprisingly helpful for that. It does. No, it works really well. I don't know. I don't think it's worth 300 bucks for, but let's back up to the, so you can buy that for $59 if you want,

21:44which is not a terrible price. But because the Apple TV is so expensive now, because it's really become this niche device, it's that much more surprising that the features Jason was just talking about supporting 120-hertz screens and audio pass-through, which people like enthusiasts have been clamoring for for a while. Like, you know, this is a great device. I want to use it, but it still does it. Bitstream audio pass-through is not a big, complicated thing. Like, that's a software thing that Apple could turn out.

22:16And perhaps they'll add it down the line. I don't know. But yeah, it's quite, it's very frustrating that if you have a second gen, which is what I have. I have a Apple, I have a 4K second generation and it works fine. But, you know, it's five or six years old now, whatever it is. And, you know, maybe I would upgrade this. No way. I'm just not, I'm going to use it until it dies. And if it dies, I might get something else because it's really hard to justify.

22:51Even though I love the Apple TV interface, it's my favorite. I mean, I have a Samsung smart TV in the dining room that I use that I can't stand. I have a Fire TV stick that I told you about. I've used Chromecast. Like, I've tried them all. And Apple TV is far and away the best. I just, I really have a hard time dropping $300 on what's essentially the same thing that they've come out with for five years, six years, seven, eight, ten years even.

23:21I really recommend if anybody's kind of looking for an Apple TV or something, like, get your refurb third gen now while you can. Try, yeah. That's expensive, too, but you can try, yeah. Yeah, it's expensive, too, but, like, on a refurb, it'll be less. And you could get that and the new remote, like, for less than. Sure. Because the refurb will probably be the cost of the remote. I mean, it's crazy. Like, Black Friday last year, you could have gotten one probably for, like, $80.

23:53Maybe, yeah. Or $90 or something, yeah. You know, and, like, some Best Buy sale or something, whoever sells them. It's crazy how expensive. And I get, you know, it says everything's expensive and RAM's expensive, but it just seems like this particular device is a little bit out of the realm of what it should cost. Even with all, taking all that into consideration. Go further with the American Express Business Gold Card.

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25:23Right.

HomePod mini 2 overview

25:24HomePod mini. All right, so that's that. Yeah, HomePod mini 2. Yeah. HomePod mini 2 is somewhat like Apple TV 4K, 4th Gen, essentially the same thing. There's new colors. You get green, pink, and a different blue. But I've looked through all the tech specs and all the writing and stuff, and it doesn't look like the sound is improved or even changed at all. I think it's the same speaker system inside it, or a very, very similar one as there was in the first gen.

26:04Yeah, there's no spec difference in the speaker. They could be the same size, but better quality in different ways. I've seen some reports, like when people talk about saying it has like second-generation computational audio or whatever. Like it's better software processing of the audio to sound good, but it's not a new speaker, right? Yeah, and they didn't really call out that it's better sound. Like it's the way they write it.

26:35Like their marketing language is like it's a HomePod mini, you know? I mean, listen, I have a couple of them right here, and they're good. Like I like it, but I'm not rushing to upgrade the one I have because it's not all that different. No. There's a new chip, a new Siri AI, and we'll talk about that stuff. But for what it does, the main thing that it does, it's essentially the same. Yeah, if it was – on the one hand, it's good that we always used to say, well, you know, what am I going to do?

27:10Am I going to update? Like are they going to make me buy a new HomePod back when the Siri Intelligence came – I mean Siri Intelligence. When Apple Intelligence came out, like if it doesn't have 8 gigs of RAM, my HomePod doesn't have that. And we always complained and said, it should just use my iPhone. Just send my request to my iPhone just like you were a Bluetooth speaker or an AirPod or whatever. And that's exactly what they're doing with all these devices, with the second- and third-gen Apple TV, with the first-gen HomePod mini, the second-gen big HomePod.

27:44They're all getting Apple Intelligent – Siri AI, but they're getting it by using your phone, your nearby phone, which honestly is a good thing. But it also makes it hard to justify spending more money on an updated HomePod. That's – what does it do if I get Siri AI anyway? Right, the – it seems to me that Apple would just – like they do this occasionally.

28:15They'll update something. Yeah. So if you happen to buy one now, you're getting the newer features without having to jump through any hoops. But it's not necessarily a signal to older people, to older users that they need to upgrade the ones that they already have. That's kind of how I see this new HomePod mini too. I don't know how many people are buying one. I got to assume it's a fairly decent seller. It's relatively inexpensive. It looks nice. Sounds good.

28:43And if you buy one, you know, you'll get these new features as well as what you would have gotten before. Like it can do surround sound now. You can hook up four of them with like two HomePods and two HomePod minis and have more of a surround sound type setup. I mean, I don't know if anyone's doing that. I'd rather get a Sonos or something that's dedicated to that, but it can do that stuff now. You can have four, even a HomePod minis, just any two pairs and have it be surround.

29:16But that's, they're $149, so that's, you know, $600. For $600. Just get a Sonos Arc or something. Yeah. Even without surround speakers behind you, anything with a subwoofer is going to sound better than four HomePod minis. So, I mean, if you've got four HomePod minis laying around in your living room, cool, but yeah. Right. Well, this is only the second gen. The first gen can't do that, I don't think. Right. Yeah. Correct. And the big HomePods, for the big HomePods also requires the second gen.

29:50Also, where do you put them? Like you got to buy stands. Like, I don't know. That seems like a kind of future, like anyone's really going to do this. No, I mean, it's the same as surround speakers for anything. A lot of people have tables, side tables. That's why I have my surround speakers on. It's, you know, whatever.

30:10I mean, if you're going to count surround speakers, you're going to have surround speakers. I just don't know why you would want four little smart speakers as surround speakers. Yeah. And it's not like they fill the room with sound. They're good. They're okay. But they're not, like, tremendously great. You know, they're good enough. I don't know.

30:31And that's really it. That's what, oh, it also can work as a Mac speaker, which is kind of cool. I actually do that now. This is going to get cut off. But you can see I have a HomePod mini that I use as my Mac speaker through AirPlay. And I mean, it's a pain in the ass because it doesn't default. You have to select it every time. There's a slight delay when you play something so it syncs. And it's not ideal. Now, Apple, I don't know why this isn't coming to the original model, maybe because of the processor.

31:01But it'll actually work as a default speaker for your Mac. You hook it up and it'll just play as if it's coming out through your Mac, which is nice. Yeah, I think it's a Wi-Fi thing. I think it's about multi-channel Wi-Fi and stuff like that. It's about having, so, I think it was a Wi-Fi. Yeah, it was a Wi-Fi 6E upgrade. It's only for Macs and devices that have Wi-Fi 6E. So, yeah, maybe probably Jason's probably right there. But, yeah, that's the only reason why I would consider getting one.

31:34But then I don't want to pay $300 for speakers. Yeah, for two. Because I can get a bunch of better speakers than that. Right. Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, it's absolutely a good thing that they enable that feature. But you shouldn't buy it for that purpose. On the other hand, I'm not going to complain too much about, $149 is not like a crazy price for this. Like, it's not. 50% higher than it was, but yes, it's not outrageous. And it'll be, what did the original HomePod mini debut for?

32:04What was the original? Was it $99? It wasn't $129 when it first came out? No, they just did that in June. They raised it to $129 and now they raised it to $129. And, yeah, it was $99 and that's why everybody was like, oh, yeah, no one expected $99 because Apple doesn't usually do $99. And it was, for what you got, it was a decent value. That's good. Yeah. You'll probably be able to find them on sale before too long for $129 and stuff like that.

32:34You know, not right now because they're brand new, but, you know, by next year sometime, all those Amazon sales will have them for $129 or something.

32:47So, yeah, it's fine, but it's, again, we're just kind of scratching our heads about, like, that's the update? Right. Like, right, right. One, what took so long? And two, like, that's it? Like, you couldn't do something else? Like, there's a new thing with the screen. The light, yeah. It'll mimic the album artwork and show different colors, but, like, who cares? I don't look at my HomePod movie screen while I'm listening to music, ever. If I, I always had, I always, with my old, I had the old original OG HomePod, and I was always like, how can I make it, can I turn that off?

33:25Can I not show the screen at all? Like, it's distracting. I don't, I don't want to look at that. Right. So, yeah, I, so that's one of those things. It's fine, but. My other question is, why didn't they come out with the third gen big HomePod? We have the second gen that doesn't support native Siri AI. It came out a couple years ago.

33:53It's $349. Apple raised the price, so I can't imagine many people are buying it with old tech. And I don't know why they didn't just update that. Even if it's just a perfunctory update that matches the MIDI and brings a small, you could use it as a speaker. Yeah, a new S chip. Yeah. Yeah, right. I don't know. They did update the second gen HomePod. The software is allowing it to work in the pairs with the surround sound and your home room. Right. And it'll support Siri AI with your phone and stuff.

34:27But, yeah, it's weird that there was no. I wonder if they're ever going to make a big HomePod again. I don't know. Maybe not. I mean, it's a good speaker. I have, I don't have the second gen. I have the original one. I mean, it's a really good Bluetooth speaker. Yeah, but for the price and for what things cost now, I can imagine they're selling many. I don't know why they would do. Let's move on to the interesting stuff. We have plenty to say about HomePod. All right, so those are those two things.

34:59You can order them now. They ship October 30th.

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Introducing the HomeView hub

36:05And then the star of the show, so to speak, the welcome homeness of it was this new device called HomeView. We've been hearing about it for a while. It's a smart home hub with the screen. It has a seven-inch square screen. It looks very much like a giant Apple Watch. It does. It looks like a huge Apple Watch. Yeah. It's the shape of an Apple Watch. It has the rounded corners. It has a, you know, fairly sizable bezel, but it's not ugly. Yeah.

36:35The base is like a, it kind of reminds me of like a Dyson. Like I, I have a Dyson fan in my, in my bedroom and like, like it's that shape. Yeah. It's like a tall dome, like a dome that's tall and has perforations around the bottom. Yeah. There's a ton of speaker holes, which are, you know, okay. Yeah. Speaker and mic. Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's, right. There's whole, there's speaker grills underneath the display and the speaker grills all around. And it's like 10 or 13 lines of speaker holes.

37:09It comes in four color, starlight, silver, rose, pink, I think. And space gray. And it's tiny as, as we, as we expected. It's, it's a, it's a very small device.

37:24300 bucks. We'll start there because I thought the price was, you know, like, wow. Okay. Like that does, based on today's pricing and the way iPads cost and certainly at what Apple TV costs, I wouldn't have flinched if it costs 449, you know? I, I mean, it's, it's 50 bucks more than the high end versions of its competitors. And I feel like that's very Apple. Right. Yeah, of course it's metal and it's, you know, utilitarian design.

37:56Yeah, you take, you take your best Google Home Nest or Echo Show, the top of the line ones are, are in that 229 to 249 ish range and stuff. So it's like, this is 50 bucks more than that. That is sort of what I expect from Apple. Right. I don't know how much, I don't know if I'd pay much more than that. Uh, and I think this is a price where some people might get a two or three of them to put in different rooms around the house, you know, which I think is partly how they

38:30envision this being used. Um, I don't think they could have gotten away with it being 449 and said, and buy one for every room in the house. Like, you know, so it's, it's a, it's primarily a kitchen device. Whereas other smart displayed things are primarily like bedroom devices. Like it seems as though it's meant to be like in a room where there's a lot of commotion and activity and people. I think I wouldn't buy this for my nightstand because I wouldn't. I think that's how they marketed it.

39:01I think it's actually an excellent. And I don't need a $300 alarm clock. Yeah. I think it's actually a great nightstand device. Well, it's nice. It's pretty. The screen go all the way down to like 0.4 nits or something. So that it can be on your nightstand and get super, super dark. Uh, I wouldn't, I wouldn't use it for 20 hours out of the day if it was on my nightstand. Right. So I'd rather have my phone there and throw it in standby mode and use that and have this in my living room or my kitchen.

39:32I bought one or I ordered one. I'm going to put it in my kitchen. Well, you're supposed to have two, Mike. And then it's an intercom. It's got an intercom app and then you can intercom to it. Um, yeah, it could also be like, you know, if you spend a lot of time, if you have like a, a den or a different room, like a living room or a home office or something where you're spending a lot of time, I guess you this, there's a lot of kitchen utility to it, but there's a lot of utility for, I, I kick off my podcasts on this and it's an intercom and I can FaceTime call on it and I'm not like holding and using my, can you do stuff with

40:06my hands while I do this? And I'm not using my phone for all this stuff. It doesn't do anything your phone doesn't do. Everybody's like, why would I want this when I have an iPhone? It's like, because you have to use your iPhone. Like the whole point of any of these is the way I see it and the way Apple, um, we'll talk about the ad in a second. Cause Jason's going to get all upset about it, but like the way Apple presented it, it's almost like, like we understand screens are a nuisance and that they're, you're, you're

40:38taken away from your conversation and your kids are using them and your, your parents are trying to call FaceTime and everything's buzzing and blinking all the time. And we want to create a device that understands that we're going to be using screens. Like we can't get rid of them, but this is a device that everybody can use. Put away your phone. You can still have the screen and do the things that you want to do. Cause like I'll use it and it's my stuff and then my wife can use it and it's her stuff, but we're interacting with each other while we're doing it.

41:09And I think in that sense, it's a, it's a very unique device. Yeah. Or it can just like pop up something. You can ask it something. It can pop up something. You're not pulling your phone out of your pocket to do it. You don't need another hand. You could just, and then you go back to ignoring it. I used my Google home nest hub in my kitchen all the time until they ruined it. They did a software update where they killed the web browser, which my wife used constantly and they just axed it.

41:40And they made it so that all your like shopping list reminders, it used to go to a note or I forget what, what service that used that you could access on the web and they changed it. So it's like, no, that only works with Google keep now, which means you need to download the keep app and there's no keep app on the watch and all this. And it's like, well, we have a shared grocery list. It's like every single day we yell at the thing saying, add this to the grocery list. And now it wants us to get Google apps and all this. I'm just, uh, fine.

42:10You know what? So between that and she couldn't look at anything on a webpage ever again, they killed the browser.

42:19And they've actually even restricted it even more. You used to be able to tell the assistant to open a webpage and maybe get it. But now that's even gone from most things and stuff. So like we, we, eventually we just got rid of it. We're like, well, it's a digital picture frame now we don't want it. This is exactly what I want to replace that. It does all the things I used to do with my home hub in the Apple ecosystem that my wife and I are in all the time.

42:46It's great. It's missing some stuff like, you know, it'll, I'll never be able to see my ring video doorbell on it ever. I, that's sure, but yeah. I mean, they, so they came out with a whole array of, or not yet, but soon they called the Apple home collection, um, cameras, doorbells, thermostats. I mean, they're, they're nice, but they're also, you know, expensive. They're not outrageously expensive compared to like competing, competing models, but they're, you know, you gotta spend a couple hundred bucks more on a, on a camera.

43:18It's, it's Apple plus it's, it's the, it's the equivalents plus $50 for Apple. Yeah. There's a slight premium on them. Yeah. We can, we can get in the home collection in a, in a bit. Uh, we talk more about home view first. I, all right. So the, the marketing video, they had two marketing videos. They have the regular sizzle reel, which is the typical Apple white background, a bunch of up close things showing all the features. I thought that was fine. I like all the features. I think it's cool.

43:48Then they had a, uh, like a, a marketing video. That was like a three minute long skit, you know, thing showing it in a family's life in their hectic morning. We have a hectic work and, you know, family life. Everyone's coming down in the kitchen and everyone's turning this thing around and looking at their information and asking for a recipe and doing this, looking at the calendar and playing music. And it's just absolute family chaos the whole time.

44:22And I was so stressed out watching that video. And I just felt like this is a representing this device in the worst light because it's not making somebody's family life unstressful. It's right in this literally in the center of this like stressful family morning. That's like absolute chaos. And it's just part of the chaos. Like, Hey, like, let's all be part of the chaos. And there's a bunch of people. There's a whole thread on Reddit, the Apple subreddit that about the video and all the

44:54replies to the video are just like, I feel like this is making fun of my family. Like I watched this. I am in this demo. I'm a, we're a couple with three kids. We have a busy family stuff, busy group calendar things and all this. This is directly aimed at me. And I saw this video and I, I hate it. Like I, I feel like it's making fun of me. So it was a bad marketing video is what I'm saying.

45:24I, I, I, I get what you're saying. I also think it was a exaggerated view of how a family would use the home view in their day. Sure. The, the couple of things you can point out about the video for one year, you're, you're talking about it. So it obviously resonated in some way. I'm not going to buy that excuse, Mike. That is the exact same excuse people made about the crush video for the iPad. Well, that one, while you're talking about it, it's like, that was a different, that

45:58was a different reaction. And I'm still, I still don't quite understand why people reacted in the way they did to that video. And I don't think Apple had any reason. I don't think anyone who saw that video or developed that video, um, thought that people would react the way that they did. Apple clearly loves, all right. That, that, this is a whole side view. I think we, I think we talked about it already, but this video, I believe they intentionally made chaotic and they, they, they, they knew people would react.

46:31Some people would react a certain way to it, but they wanted to show off all of the things that this thing can do. The, the, the one thing you, you, you're going to not notice when you're watching that video is not a single person takes out their phone. Sure. Like iPhones aren't part of it. And I think that's the whole idea of what home view is. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a post iPhone type device in that we under, like screens are, are, are in our lives. They're not going anywhere. Right. Your son is going to text and, and, and, and we have calendars and we have things, and

47:04this is a way that you can all kind of use it together privately yet also socially and get things done. Um, I thought it was a, I thought it was a good, a good way to showcase. Obviously I don't think there's a single family in, in, in, in the world. That's, that's quite as chaotic as that one is, but that's the point. I don't know. Our, our video producer, Brent, Brennan was like, this hits a little too close to home.

47:34I see myself in this and I don't like it. Um, so yeah, I, I agree. It showed off what it's for. Yes, absolutely. But I, I think it, if anything, it should have gotten across the point that like your home life is busy and this can help. And it didn't get across to me that it could help. Like, I don't know if it's, I don't know if it's designed to help. I think it's designed to get you to keep your phone in your pocket. Like, I think that's the only thing it does.

48:06I don't think it's, I don't think it's, I don't think it's supposed to be a helpful device. I really don't. Like helpful at making your, your home life better. Like, I think it's supposed to be helpful in getting you to be more present. How about that? With your family, with your, with your household. Okay. Rather than a solution to a problem. Like I just, I don't, that's not how I see that. That's not why I bought it. I didn't buy it. I can, I can read recipes on my iPhone. I could listen to music on my HomePod.

48:37I can do all these things easily. Yeah. But this little device that I'm going to put on my counter is going to enable me to do all this with my son and my wife without holding something to my face. Right. And, and to have your hands busy while you do this. Right. And to have my hands free. I think that's kind of the, the point. And that's, that's why they called it home view. Cause you're, you're, you're literally. No, it's a view of your home. You're all the people in your home. It's interesting that it, it kind of requires an iPhone in a way.

49:08Like it's, it does, it will technically work for guests that come into your home and yell at it. Right. Like it'll work, but it won't show any of the data. It's pulling data from your calendars, your reminders, your, all that stuff, your messages and all that stuff securely from your iPhone for you. Right. It recognizes your face. Your iPhone has to be nearby and have been quote recently unlocked, which I don't, we don't know how recent recently is. Yeah. We're going to have to test that once we get one. Yeah.

49:39Yeah. I'm not sure what that means. Yeah. Hopefully the, the, the time limit on that is not like five minutes. Like it's, if it's a couple hours or whatever. Right. You need it to be an hour or more. Yeah. Yeah. It's not face ID. They're assuming, Hey, this thing is plugged in, in your home. There's a certain level of assumed security, but it still won't show other people in your home, your text messages, your calendar, your, whatever. Right. Right. Part of that commercial that Jason was talking about, there's a girl and a boy, they're like

50:09I don't know, 14 or 15 or something. Right. And she's texting her boyfriend and he flips it over cause he wants to see what she's texting and it says, nope, you can't see it. Yeah. It'd be cool if it works that well. Like it was within like milliseconds. I, I'm curious to see. Some of that's editing. Yeah. Quick. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think, I think it works very much like the notification previews on your iPhone where you get, it's there, but it's blurred out or whatever, unless you have a recognized face facing this, the camera.

50:41It's probably works like that. Um, I find it.

HomeView built-in apps and CarPlay

50:46All right.

HomeView built-in apps and CarPlay

50:47So the apps, how does this thing work? It's like you said, it's like a big Apple watch screen. It's got a bunch of widgets that are like the iPhone standby widgets. It even has like the clock faces like Snoopy and stuff. Like it's very much an Apple watch home page, home screen. It's, it's, it's like a mashup between Apple watch and standby mode on your iPhone. Like, right. Like those things smashed together. There's a few different layouts. You can choose your widgets. It'll show the home screen for the person facing it. So you and your family members can have different home screens and stuff.

51:19Uh, and it has a set of built-in apps and that's it. Like it doesn't have an app store. It doesn't have third-party apps. Uh, we'll get into how that works, but, uh, the apps it has are alarms. Gotta, obviously calendar, FaceTime, find my home. Obviously it's controls all your heart spot on stuff. Uh, intercom messages, music, podcasts, reminders, Safari settings, obviously timers,

51:50weather and world clock, which is like, it's weird. It's weird to me that Apple has like a clock app, timers app, like, but, but yeah, sure. Clock, clock app. That's it. Those are the apps. Everything else kind of works in a weird way from your iPhone, which we'll get into that. But, um, just kind of having Safari like alone makes it, I talked about how like they ruined the Google Nest Hub by killing the web browser.

52:20So having a web browser on that thing, that, that alone is going to make it so much more useful. There's sometimes I just want to look up something and have it on a screen while in the kitchen or whatever, while I do something like, um, I'm doing something. Can I just do this? And you can have Siri read you the webpage or whatever, you know, that'd be great. So, um, yeah, the, uh, the important stuff, the one thing is missing from everything that Jason just talked about is video and it's also missing from the commercial.

52:53Like it's not other, other, um, home hub things kind of spotlight that, like Amazon spotlights, prime video, Google spotlights, YouTube on its little screen. And they're even widescreen because they fit the video. So this is a square device and I don't think Apple really cares if you, if it can play video or not, it doesn't seem to be primary, secondary or tertiary future. Like it doesn't, it, uh, that's not what this is for.

53:23Like they don't want you sitting, everyone sitting around and watching a video. Yeah. This is a terrible way to, to watch a long form video, right? Yeah. It's going to be like black bars and, you know, really small. Yeah, it is a, uh, is an airplay target. So you can find a video on your phone and as long as you can airplay it, you can airplay to this device. And I can totally see where this is really, be really useful for watching a lot of those things like YouTube shorts and stuff like that, that show you how to peel an onion real fast or what, you know, whatever it is.

53:53Like just, there's, there's plenty of reasons you'd watch a short video on here, but they didn't build any of those apps in and then, so it's an airplay target, but they also did this really cool thing where it, it kind of works with apps from your iPhone through CarPlay. Right. So third party video and audio apps from your iPhone will work on this device as long as

54:25they have CarPlay support, right? So Spotify, Audible, stuff like that. We didn't see any of that. They never showed any of that and they don't list any of these apps by name, but anything with a CarPlay app works with CarPlay support. Yeah. I mean, the question I have is, so CarPlay, there's no CarPlay store. You download the app on your phone, you go into your car and they're there. Is that how this is going to work? Like, will they be like, will there be a Spotify icon somewhere that you can tap?

54:57And I, that's, that's the, those are the things I want to know. Cause there is an, an, an app sort of drawer you can slide up. Okay. So you can launch podcasts and stuff, right? So yeah. Does it show the Spotify icon if my phone has Spotify on it? Cause Spotify definitely has a CarPlay app or because otherwise if, if I just, otherwise I'm going to be air playing it for my phone, that's not what I want to do. Right. Right. Yeah. I think it's smart if assuming it works the way we think it's going to work. And if you download the app on your iPhone, it automatically shows up.

55:31I think it's a way smarter way to do it because like, so you take something like the Apple watch, I can't remember the last time I purposely bought a, an app for my watch, but yeah, I'll use ones on my phone that pop up all the time. So I think it's smart to not overly complicate this with home view, home view apps, but the apps that you would use on your phone, if you want to use them on your, on your, on your,

56:02on your home view, um, they're there. I mean, Spotify has to be supported because Apple can't expect everyone to use Apple music cause they don't. And, and that's, if they didn't like instant lawsuit, right? Um, Spotify for immediately. Um, Apple mentions four apps that it says are supported as apps available from iPhone and it's audio books. These are all Apple apps, audio books. App categories, you mean? No, apps, specific apps. There, it lists four specific apps, Apple apps that it lists as available from iPhone and

56:38it's audio books, classical music, Apple's audio books, classical music, news, and TV. Okay. Uh, and I think that's all because it's basically, those all have a CarPlay feature and it's pulling the CarPlay thing. Uh, Apple just added in iOS 27 support for video apps in CarPlay. The idea that being that like, I, as long as my car's parked, I can watch YouTube or Hulu or whatever, right? None of those apps have updated yet to support video CarPlay.

57:12So we don't know if this thing will ever play Netflix, YouTube, Hulu, whatever. But as long as those apps update for video CarPlay, it will like suddenly boom. Um, and I can totally see, like you said, this is not something for everybody to sit around watching it, but I can totally see if I had a toddler, uh, and I'm in the kitchen doing stuff and my toddler wants to watch his cartoon on Netflix or Hulu or something, Disney, you know, I could just pull it up here and look at this, you know, while it sits at the kitchen

57:43counter and watches a thing and I don't have to go find its tablet and give it, it's Jason doesn't have a kid's notice, notice how he called it. It's well, I'm not going to, I'm not going to assume the gender of my child. I'm not going to say his, her there.

58:04Um, anyway, so, so there's that. And so I think, yeah, I can't wait to see how does, what is, what is Spotify or Audible like look like on here? Sure. It's a great thing for playing audio books, right? But nobody uses Apple audio books. I didn't even know audio books was a thing. They have an actual app called audio books. Uh, is that just iBooks? Is that their icon and thing says, oh, it says books. Oh, no, it says audio books.

58:36Literally, I'm on it under the apps for iPhone. Um, I think it's in the books app. Okay. I got a look.

58:48Uh, Apple books. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. There's, there's Apple books, but in the, in the home view specs where it lists these for apps available from iPhone, it says audio books, not books. So that makes me think it's not going to show your books and let you read them, but it is going to, uh, the books app probably supports CarPlay for audio books. Right. Yeah. And so that's probably what shows up. It shows up.

59:19So I'm looking, um, CarPlay and there is, it's the books app icon, but it says audio books. Right. So I think if you are in your car and you hit that, it shows all the audio books. Cause you can't read in the car. That makes sense. Right. Cause you're not going to read in the car, even if you're parked. Right. Not on your little car. So maybe Jason, maybe this is why they spent so much time on project Titan. This, this, this was, this was the real, um, self-driving car project was a, uh, an extension

59:50of CarPlay. Yes. Uh, audio extension for CarPlay. Um, but, but then there's, so that's video and audio apps. It uses car, it leverages CarPlay, which I think is brilliant because so many video, so many audio apps already support CarPlay. Uh, like you want to listen to your MLB game. It's going to be there. Right. Cause it's got CarPlay support. I, I, I assume that's. Yeah. I appreciate the, I appreciate the call out to the base. Yeah. Thank you. I, I, uh, I assume that's an audio considered an audio app, but that's just for playing those

1:00:25things. It also supports widgets from your iPhone if it's a CarPlay widget and that's a whole other category of things, right? It's, that's not just video and audio apps because what do you need a widget for your thing? So the home screen widgets could, could potentially show things like your Google calendar or something like that. Any, you know, any app you have that has a CarPlay widget, you can have that widget be on the home screen of home view.

1:00:58That's wild. I can't, what, how does that look? What does that do? Like, let me, I want to know, like, that's a cool, that's a great idea. That's a great thing. That's a great way to get some information, even though the app isn't going to be there.

1:01:13Right. The, so when you say the home view home screen. Yeah. That's, that's not like the clock. Oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know how they have like a clock, but they have widgets for the weather, you know, your, your, your thermostat temperature and, in whatever else. Right. Like they have, those are widgets, right? Right. Uh, and they, and they update live, um, those can include widgets from your phone if it's a CarPlay widget. Right. But they didn't show any of that or what it looks like or what it does.

1:01:47Like if you want to use the, this thing for your calendar, it's Apple calendars. I'm sorry. That's all it is. But if Google calendar has a CarPlay widget, I think it does. You could at least see that widget. Like you won't be able to edit or add your calendar or actually use it in any other way other than seeing the widget, seeing your next upcoming event. But you could at least do that. Right. Without app, without Google having to do anything. Like it's already got the CarPlay widget.

1:02:14So yeah, I think that's kind of a neat thing is that they, they, they're going to, there's going to be this kind of hybrid piecemeal app support ish that, but that Apple, other developers don't have to do anything for. There's no like, I have to build home view support now and stuff. It's like, it's just, they're just leaning on CarPlay. Right. And there's like a car that's parked in your kitchen all the time. Right. Which makes sense. I mean, if the technology is there, like they're not calling it CarPlay, but all of

1:02:44the documentation indicates that it's the same exact technology. And that's really what CarPlay is. It's just, it's just, it's mirroring, you know, they do in the developer docs, they literally say, this uses CarPlay. Okay. If you want to do this, it's the CarPlay standard. You have to opt out. Like if it's, it's just going to show up and be available unless you, as a developer say, no, only in cars, not on home view. Right. Right. So does that mean, well, no, cause you can buy, so if you buy a home view without a home

1:03:18iPhone, do we have any idea what happens? I bet you can't even set it up. Right. That's what I was going to say. Cause CarPlay obviously is an iPhone thing. If you, if you go into your car without your phone, nothing happens. So you need an iPhone to trigger CarPlay on your car's dashboard. Yeah. CarPlay is literally just using, it's running on your phone. It, it, your, your in-dash screen is just a second screen for your phone. Right.

1:03:48It's a wireless screen. Right. Right. Is that what's happening here or no? Do we have any idea? Yeah. I don't think it takes over the whole screen for those widgets. It's, I think it just shows those widgets. I think it's this hybrid of like using CarPlay. I guess my point, my, my question is, so we, we, you said this earlier and I looked it up and you're right. They didn't, they didn't say anything about, uh, uh, storage in the, in the, in the home view. So is it working as just an elaborate, um, you know, infotainment center on your phone,

1:04:22on, on your, in your, all right, here's a question. If you, if you come home and you leave your iPhone somewhere else and there's no iPhone in the house, right? What happens on the Apple, um, on the Apple home view fact, the frequently asked questions section of its website, it says, can members of my household use home view if they do not have an Apple account or iPhone, which is exactly what we're talking about. So the answer is to, unlike a full personalized experience on home view, users need an Apple

1:04:53account, a compatible iPhone or, or iPad, and to be added as a member of the shared home in the home app, which I guess you could do that now, right? That's just the iPhone app. Um, it says, however, guests and recognized use on guests and unrecognized users can still easily interact with home view to control smart home accessories, check the weather, set timers and play music all without accessing anyone's personal information. So I guess just those four very specific things, uh, cause it, I think there, I think it's a

1:05:33such as it doesn't say that it doesn't say like, I know to do things like, or so it just says specifically those four things, but my guess is that they can probably play podcasts or open Safari. I wonder how music works like, yeah, if they don't have, if it doesn't know they have an account or something, you know what I bet it does. There's a setting buried in music that says like use music history and you can turn that off so that you can listen to stuff without it like impacting

1:06:06your, your, your, uh, recommendations and stuff. Um, like, uh, that's a pro tip. If you're using Apple music, this, this Halloween for Halloween music, like go flip that switch so that you don't get like for the next six months, get every Halloween song recommended to you. Uh, I bet it basically essentially does that. Someone's got an Apple music subscription. It's just going to use,

1:06:36it's just going to turn off history and play a thing. Um, if nobody is subscribed to Apple music in your entire home and you started playing like, what does it do? Yeah. Right. Yeah. I don't know. Uh, all right. So there was a, a neat little kind of AI ish feature that I thought was really cool.

Cooking recipes and feature handoff

1:07:03Uh, I've looked into how this works and it's the cooking recipe handoff feature thing. Okay. They showed this with an app, uh, with all recipes, I think thing when they're demos and all you're, you find a recipe on your iPhone, you can just hold your iPhone neck near the device. You can actually do this with any Safari webpage. You can just, you're on Safari, you're on your iPhone. This is neat. You can hold it near the home view and hand off that webpage to the home view.

1:07:35If that does that, like that, like airdrop bloop thing where it sends it to the little cool handoff thing. And then you want, yeah. So you can do that. If that is a recipe, if it has detected, it's going to AI look at that page, webpage. And if it's detected, that's a recipe. There'll be a button on there that says start cooking. And if you hit that, it basically makes a customized reader view of that recipe. It's basically call it an AI summary, call it a reader view,

1:08:08whatever, but it's, it gets rid of the whole like four paragraphs of the story, how this was grandma's stew and all that. It just kills all that. It has a, yeah, it has a clear ingredients list. It goes through the steps and makes a concise list of steps. Anything that says for this amount of time becomes a timer that you can tap on to start a timer, you know, which is pretty much the recipe experience. If you have the news app, there's a ton of recipes in there

1:08:42now. There's a whole recipe section and they have partners, you know, from Bon Appetit and RSVs and Epicurious and all that stuff. And that's kind of how those work, but it can do this with any recipe page on Safari. Right. I think that's so cool. It is. I can imagine that being a thing I use a lot. And that's probably like number one or number two use case for this type of thing, because yeah, for one, the biggest pain with, with using, I mean, we all use online recipes now

1:09:16because it's so easy to get, to try new stuff. The two pain points, one, I got to hold my phone or, or have it somewhere where I can see it and then it locks and I got to unlock it. Yeah. I keep waking it up. Yeah. You have to wake up your phone all the time. And two, like I, like I'll be using it and then I'll go to something else and I'll come back and the page is shifted and it's moved. I got to scroll. Like this is, this is a great, a great way to do it. And it's also, again, social communal. I can cook and my wife can cook. We look at the same screen together and we can do it together.

1:09:48So, right. Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a, that's a fantastic use case and really smart that, that Apple would have thought of, of, of, of doing that. Yeah. I noticed there's no notes app. I find that like a little weird. I, I would reference notes that I have on this thing. Well, no, there's reminders and shopping list automatically goes, there's a, there's a shopping list reminder by default, like a list. But you can ask Siri to take a note, can't you? Yeah. I don't know what happens when you do that. There's no notes app on this and it's not listed as one of the quote

1:10:23apps available from iPhone. And there's no like notes app for CarPlay. So if I asked Siri to take a note on this thing, what would it do? Is it going to make a note that just goes to iCloud and it's on my notes, but I can't look at it on this screen? Like, what is it? I have no idea what it does. Is the, is the Siri app on this thing? Is that one of the apps? No. No, it's not. Okay. No, it's, it's interesting because Siri AI, they demonstrated it being like asked a question and giving a response and all. Yeah. But it doesn't list the Siri app, which

1:10:56means that I can't like tap that app and see all my previous conversations and go back and look at one. Right. So yeah, the whole thing is, I find that weird. I find all that stuff weird. Yeah. I want to know more about how this works. This is the first iteration of a first gen product. So, you know, like it'll evolve and, but, um, I, I, I, it was, I, it really struck me how much the design looks like a watch and not a phone and not a, um,

1:11:30yeah, not a, uh, uh, TV. Like everything is widescreen. Our MacBooks are, are, everything's widescreen. And this was very much not. So it's a completely different, completely new use case and completely new, um, form factor. And a totally new operating system, um, that they didn't really name, but it, some people say it's home OS or home view OS, but they call it home view software in the footnotes. Right. Um, so kind of like HomePod software, like

1:12:02it doesn't have a name. Yeah. It doesn't have a name in that way, but, uh, it'll, it'll get, uh, updated over time. Uh, and one assumes I'm curious to see what they show. Like at next WWDC, are they going to show like a bunch of cool new home view things? I think some of that depends on how well this thing sells. That's a good question. Yeah. Um, there's a future product coming that is a bigger version of this, or this is the rumors, a bigger domed base.

1:12:38The arm, instead of just being a short little thing that just tilts it, it's got a bigger articulated arm that's robotic. So the thing can turn and look around AI and AI controlled. It'll turn and look around. It'll have a personality and all this other kind of stuff. I wonder, I assume that's going to run on a future version of this operating system. Right. Right. And that's going to have a bigger screen and do more stuff and you know, everything. But I, I find that like, yeah, I can see that. I can see them having sort of a little motorized version of this.

1:13:12Yeah. Of this exact thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It rotates. Cause it has a, it has a cute little personality on its own. And if it was able to kind of move and, and, and react like that Pixar lamp, it definitely has that kind of a, of a, of a, of a vibe. Yeah. And if it could turn as it, it, the, the camera supports center stage, but you can't, if you walk around off screen, it's, it's gone. Like it could follow you. If it could turn and

1:13:43follow you around the room and stuff like that, like, or if you could be on another one and say, Hey, Hey, and, and here are your dogs in the kitchen and just tell it, tell the AI, can you show me what my dog's doing? And then it'll turn until it finds your dog eating the cake off the counter, whatever, you know? I, yeah, I can see, I can see a lot of future for this

Future designs and wall mounting

1:14:08type of product. Yeah. That, I mean, we, there's been, there's been a ton of these like AI type things that people have tried to release. Some are, some are wearables and some aren't. And this is, it's not quite that, but it's pretty close to that concept where it's powered by an AI chatbot of sorts. It, it's, you know, small enough to fit in whatever room you want it to. And, you know, it's, it's, it's like your, your knowledge base, both, both, both for your personal stuff and for

1:14:42the things you want to know. And I think, uh, going to your, your point about how it like, it looks like a giant Apple watch. It's not widescreen like everything else. I think it shows that Apple was very deliberate in their design of this where they were not thinking of it as, well, we just want to slap our chatbot on here and have it show videos and stuff. Like they were, they were thinking of what is the future of these kinds of devices as we move forward into an age of

1:15:17more AI and robotics and all this other kind of stuff. And what does that look like? And how does that work? You know? Right. Cause there's a lot coming down the pike with this building off of this type of, yeah, this whole category of, of things. Right. So I, I feel like they thought about that and they said, you know, and that's where they came up with like, well, squarish makes sense. These kinds of widgets make sense. How we pull some data from your iPhone and other stuff lives on

1:15:47the device. Like they think there's, there's a thoughtfulness here. There's probably when we finally get one and try and use it a million things that were like, I wish it did this or it's frustrating that does this, but it doesn't do that. And you know, all this other kind of stuff, but that, that video that gives me like heart makes my heart blood pressure go up. Like that video, notwithstanding, I dig what this is and how it works. I think it's cool. It's exactly what

1:16:19I've wanted to replace my old Google nest hub with. Yep. So I have an old, uh, echo, echo spot, a little circular circular one. Yeah. Um, I've had it there for like, I don't know, 10 years. So yeah, that's going to go right where that is like, yeah. And, um, you know, that's a lot more. It's fair, but it looks so cool. I like the little, it's a terrible, it's terrible. The whole thing is terrible. It's so, unless you're looking at like the, the clock or a timer, it's useless because it's so small, but it's, uh, I love it because it's,

1:16:52it's a small little thing that sits on my, on my counter. Um, I'm curious what the sound quality is like and everything. Oh, we should talk about the, the two versions. There's a, all right. There's the regular, we've been talking about the regular versions, like a desk. Most, most people are going to buy it. There's the one we've been talking about, but yeah. Right. There's a wall mounted version that is the same price, even though it doesn't come with the base, it just has an attachment, but you have to buy the wall mount separately. Right. So it's the same screen as the doc version. He just took the screen off

1:17:27and you can put it on your wall. But yeah, Jason, as Jason says, it's, it's, it's, it's bizarre pricing because it's, it's $299 for this thing with the speaker and a, and a, and a power supply and all that stuff. And the, the, the wall mounted one, which I almost expect them to say like, oh, sorry, we, we, we, we, we meant to say it's $199 because it's also $299. It has no base. It has no mounting hardware with it. You have to buy that separately and it costs either.

1:18:00Yeah. Yeah. So it costs either $60 for a USB-C one or $80 for, uh, uh, an AC one that you can plug into your, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, existing homes, electricity or $130, which is not available yet, but, but, uh, a power over Ethernet that you can plug into. Yeah. And the, the USB-C one is just the mounting bracket. It doesn't come with a USB-C power adapter. Right. Right. And cable. So you still need to bring those to the part of yourself. I think it has a cable.

1:18:35Oh, it comes with a cable. Yeah, it does. I'm, I'm looking at it. It's attached. Yeah. Okay. The, the, the, the. But there's, there's no adapter. Yeah. Yeah. There's no adapter. You still have to, and they, and they give you guidance over like what the power it needs to supply. And it's going to sound worse because normally it's got speakers in the screen, but then there's a little, a little woofer in the base and that adds the low frequency. So this just doesn't have that. And they're going to tune the sound differently, but it's, it's like missing some speaker. Yeah. And also like, why is it the same price? And you're going to need to, you're going

1:19:11to want to get this professionally installed because if otherwise it's going to be, have an ugly cord hanging from it and then plugged into the closest outlet. So you're going to want this to go into the wall and come behind something like it's, it's a, it's a process. Some people are okay with the like, cause there's, they sell all those like little shared calendar mounting things and stuff. So people are okay. Some people are all right with like, yeah, I'll just do like a little cable management and run this to a nearby outlet. Okay. But

1:19:41still it's, you pay the same price. Plus you have to buy at least an at least $60 thing and supply your own power adapter. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's straight. And it'll be worse. Yeah. I mean, it'll look nice if you get it all wired up properly. It's going to look really cool on a wall. Yeah. But you also have to go over to that wall every time you want to use it, which isn't quite as social as Apple makes it, makes it out to be. Yeah. Yeah. So I can see why people would want this mounted like in your entryway or

1:20:14something like if you're made out of money, like I can see why you would want a wall mounted one, but it seems like the best use case scenario is the, the one on a base that you could pick up and move into a different room if you wanted to or whatever. Yeah. Roman, I just got a connection unstable thing. I don't know why I've had a few and it came back. Okay. Okay. So yours, it seems fine. I don't know. You're going to have a lot of fun editing this later. The, uh, the

1:20:49back of it, it, the domed one, the one with the base, the base does not have a permanently attached power cable. It has a USB-C port. That's kind of fun. Cause you could just, you could like plug, plug a power brick into it and make it portable, like carry it around. Yeah. Um, interesting that, let me just double check. It doesn't have an Apple logo anywhere on it, which is odd. There's no, like on the back, like an iPad, like you don't see. Yeah.

1:21:21You would think if there's no embossed Apple logo somewhere. It's just, yeah. But, um, yeah. Uh, I think most people, if not everybody is going to buy the non mounted one because it just makes more sense, but, um, it'll be cool to see them in the Apple store. Like they'll, they'll have them installed on walls, like all neat and cool. And it'll be, uh, it'll be fun to see them.

1:21:48I can't wait to see what they do with the software for this in the future. Like you said, this is a gen one version one thing. So yeah. If you think back to like the original Apple watch, like that thing has changed a ton. Yeah. That's 10 years. So, you know, yeah, this is going to evolve and change, but you know, it's a cool, it's a cool little device. I think the price is right. I'm, uh, I hope they keep it at two 99 and don't, you know, spring three 99 or four 99 on us next year, but who knows, you know, we'll have to see how the, how the, how the Ram situation shakes out. You can, um, you can pre-order it now. No fanfare,

1:22:25no waking up early. You know, I just checked as we were doing this and they're very readily available for ordering. Like they must have a ton of these ready to go or people aren't buying them. I don't know. Yeah. Or it, like you said, it doesn't ship for a month. Right. So some of that might just be, they're not, they don't, they're taking pre-orders, but you know, maybe you won't get yours right away. Like, you know, if, if they, a couple of them say November 6th, a couple of two of the colors say November 16th when I try to click on them. So it was a couple of days later,

1:22:58but, um, they'll be in stores on the 13th. Um, Amazon has it up already. Costco has a Best Buy. Like they're going to be all over the place. So, um, it'll be, it'll be a hot Christmas item. I'm sure what I've been looking for. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I pre-ordered the space gray one. This very much seems like this kind of thing where if you know your family has iPhones, you kind of want to give this to somebody cause it's not completely out of Christmas gift view. And it's like, now I can, now I can FaceTime grandma. Like, you know, totally.

1:23:31They can just leave this next to her couch or whatever, her recliner and she can, we can FaceTime whenever. Roman, are you buying one? I always like to ask Roman because he's a bit of a curmudgeon when it comes to new tech. Yeah. He still has an Apple watch four. Yes. Um, I don't use smart home gadgets. See, I told you. Yeah. So like I can't, I don't use a doorbell cause the way my, I have a gate and I can't, I don't really have a place to mount it. So, uh, even, even off to the sides,

1:24:04like it, it would, it wouldn't be obvious someone coming to my house to see that there's a doorbell there. And then the camera wouldn't capture anything. Yeah. I don't have a, right. So I don't have a place to mount it. And then I don't use any other, I don't have a thermostat and things like that. So, uh, the only reason I would get one is, is for the kitchen and for recipes. And I don't know, I can use, I have a really old iPad that I can use for that with a stand. So. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if, if that people have said that online, like, Oh, I can just get an iPad

1:24:35instead. Sure. Yeah. But this is a, if you know what a new iPad costs. Right. Right. Well, there's that too. Well, I have an old iPad. So it's not that the cost of the home view is prohibitive. I think it's actually a reasonable price. Yeah. I just don't know how, I don't know if it'd be like, it'd either be used as a clock or as a recipe browser. And then that would be it. Yeah. And that for me, isn't enough to invest in one. Yeah. If you don't listen to music or podcasts or anything like that in there, or you don't want to FaceTime people while

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1:26:09Uh, yeah. Cook or something. Yeah. The FaceTime one is something I've wanted for a while. Like I hate holding up my phone to FaceTime. Yeah. I don't want it on my TV like that. Like whenever I'm like my Apple TV is like, Hey, move this to your front. Like, no, I don't want to watch like a 70 foot version of my parents. Right. And then you also have to go put your phone over there to make it in the camera.

Apple history and the HomePod mini

1:26:36It's not important enough to me, but, um, this device I'll use all the time for that, for making calls. Yeah. Yep. Uh, should we move on to Apple history? Yeah, sure. Apple history is actually kind of related to what we were just talking about on October 13th, 2020. So six years ago, the original exactly six years was released. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, our very old Michael Simon actually wrote the review of the

1:27:08very, of the original home pod. Did I really have fond memories? I don't even remember that I wrote that of the mini. Yeah. You have the home pod mini. I'm looking at the review by Michael Simon. What it, what was my score? What did it, what did I give it? Uh, you gave it a three and a half stars. Oh, that's not good at all. Sorry, Apple. I think there were some key things it didn't do until later software updates. Yeah. Yeah. That would have made a difference. It's funny though,

1:27:39how like it hasn't changed really, except for the colors, you know, it's yeah. Right. Uh, it's essentially. I'm looking to see what, what else came out of that event? Uh, iPhone 12 and 12 mini and 12 pro and 12 max. Oh, right. This was the, the, the only time they delayed it because it was delayed. Yeah. Yeah. So this was the big September event, but it was in October that year. Right. And weirdly they did also have a September event, but just for the Apple watches and like, uh, and that iPad and stuff, but then the iPhones were in October and that also

1:28:16included the home pod mini. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It just was like random. It was, I'm looking at it. It was just the iPhone 12 and the 12 mini. That was the first 12 mini. And yeah. Uh, HomePod. HomePod mini. Interesting. Right. And then they did max the next month. The set of November, they did some max. Yeah. Yeah.

1:28:38So that whole year was funk, was just funky timing. And yeah. Yeah. If you want to read Mike's review of the HomePod mini. I'd like to read Mike's review though. HomePod mini. We'll have a link in the show notes for that. So, uh, I mean, there's not a lot to say about the old HomePod mini. Yeah. We just talked about HomePod for a minute. Yeah. We just talked about it. I have a, I have a bunch of them. I think I have like four in my house. They're good. Like there were, there was like a sale at Costco. I got, I think

1:29:09I got like two for 70 bucks or something or something. It was like, so I bought like a couple of them, but I mean, they're, they're good. They're good little speakers to have around your house. You know what I hate about, uh, the old Siri and I hope the new Siri doesn't do this. Wait, don't. Okay. Like I saw, I have a HomePod mini in my, in my living room and I'll say, you know, turn on the, turn on the living room lights. And I hate when it's like one sec, like what could you, what else can you possibly be doing that you can't answer

1:29:39my, my, my request right now? Like I, I understand Apple is trying to make it like conversational and like funny, but it's like, dude, just do it. I don't need you to say a sure thing or I'm, let me get right on that. Like, just do it.

1:29:56That's my, that's interesting that I would say that if, so I've had it, I've noticed that when you have a HomePod in a designated room in your home app, you've said, this is living room. Yeah. If you say turn on the living room lights, it just does it. But if you say turn on the lights anywhere else, or that includes anywhere else, you get a response. And I think that's deliberate because. So the HomePod I'm talking to is in my dining room and I'm telling it to turn on the living room lights. So maybe, maybe that's, that's. Right. So that's deliberate because it doesn't know you

1:30:28can't see the lights. So it doesn't know, well, did it do it? Right. Like, so you don't know, it doesn't know that. That's interesting. Since it's in a different room, it's, it wants to give you an acknowledgement so that you know that it did turn on those lights. It doesn't know you, whether you can see them or not. So you're saying I shouldn't be angry at my HomePod. It's actually doing what it's supposed to do. I'm saying try, try deliberately telling a HomePod to turn on just the lights that are in the room that it's set to in home, in the home app where

1:31:00you say that HomePod is located. And I bet you will either get just an, it gives a little audible chime, you know, whatever, or, or, or nothing at all. It just turns on the lights. And then when you tell it to turn on the lights that includes some other room, then you get a response because it just wants you to know it did it. How would you know you're not there? I don't have, like, I don't, I have a dining room light, but I don't use it as often as I do the living room lights because it's like a connected little

1:31:30area. Mine is like, that's interesting. And if, and if that's the way you do it all the time. I'm sorry, HomePod Mini, because I yell at you constantly. Yeah. Or just, just change in the home app, change that HomePod and say it's in your living room. Okay. If that bothers you. But I think that's actually a deliberate thing and you can test it and try out. Let me know. All right. See, Roman, we, we learn something new every day. There's a HomePod Mini next to

Comment corner on iPhone upgrades

1:31:58you. Is that, where does that say that it is? This is office. So this is. Okay. So if you told it to turn off the lights in your office right now. I can't because there's no lights in here that are smart home. Oh, there's no. Okay. There's nothing in your office that it could do. That would be. No. Okay. I just, I just use it for a Mac speaker and to play music. Gotcha. Yeah. There's not, there's no lights in here that are smart lights. Okay. Let's move on to comment corner. We got an email about

1:32:29last week's show where we talked about the iPhone 18 pro. It was Roman's fault. If everyone, if anyone's upset, David P is not upset. He wants a little advice. He asked via email. I am one of these folks who keeps their iPhone until it is no longer viable. I currently have an iPhone 12 pro max. I am aware that iOS 27 supports back to iPhone 11. So the 12 won't be supported for too much longer. Should I wait for the

1:33:0019 or even 20 or is the 18 a good jumping point? That's a good question. The 12 I have is still perfectly, perfectly fine functionally. So he's not in a huge rush. I mean, we always give that advice. If you don't need it, don't spend the money on it because there's always something better that's going to come at some point. Right. Next year's iPhone is always going to be better. Right. Right. I mean, I can, I can assure him that the 18 pro will be a massive

1:33:31upgrade and he'll love it. Right. Especially if it uses the camera and you know, the there's, there's a ton of upgrades there, but if you can wait and you don't mind using the, um, the, the 12 pro for another year, what we hear about the 19 is that it's going to be a pretty big change.

1:33:52Right. Or if you just don't want to spend that much, you want to wait for the regular 18, you know, even a regular 18 is going to be a massive improvement over your 12 pro, just battery life camera, like, you know, all the features that supports and everything, all the new, he's probably missed out on about three or four years. First of all, any Apple intelligence stuff, but like also just a bunch of other features that just don't work all the way back to the 12 pro. Does that even support stuff like selecting text in an image and stuff? Like, I don't, I don't remember.

1:34:27I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. We were just talking about the 12. This came out in 2020. Yeah. All the precision finding things and with anything, you know, it doesn't have ultra wide band. Like there's just so much. So even a regular 18, if you wanted to wait till the spring and you didn't want to spend $1,200 on whatever the next iPhone is pro iPhone, you know, that would be a big improvement. So I would say if you haven't already bought an 18 pro, if, if you're not so anxious

1:34:59about it that you didn't run out by that, then see what the regular 18 does is like this spring. Yeah. I mean, it's the 18, even a 17 is a huge upgrade over the 12 pro, even though it's not a pro phone, you're going to lose that, that, that camera, the telephoto camera. Did the 12 pros have one? Oh, interesting. I don't remember. I don't either. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking at it here. Yeah. They had it. Right. Um, but honestly, the, the, the image

1:35:33sensor on the 17 is probably so much of an improvement that if you zoom just digital, it's probably about the same. That optical quality 2X where they use the middle, it's probably going to be better when you get under 12. Anyway. So, um, yeah, I mean, that'll save you some money. I mean, that, and that, that's up to now $900, which, you know, that might be 999 next year. Who knows? We don't know. Who knows? Um, but it's the, the 18 is a, is a really

1:36:05good phone. You're going to get, you know, promotion. Now you're going to get, uh, always on display that was previously pro only features. So the only thing you're really giving up there is the, the, the better chip, the cooling and the, um, and the camera. But if you're comfortable with the 12 pro it's, it's all going to be better than that. Right. Yeah. So the one, the one thing I would add is that because it's a 12 pro and it's, you know, a little older is you might want to check your battery overall battery and see where that's at. Uh, cause

1:36:42I think David said that it's still fine functionally. And I'm going to assume that includes his, the battery life is good enough for him. But you know, if anyone else is in kind of in the same situation and wondering that's, that'd be the one thing I would check is the battery health and see where that's at. You go to settings, battery, and then battery health. And it'll tell you the percentage that it could charge to based on the original a hundred percent. And it'll tell you if it needs a replacement. Yeah. Yeah.

1:37:13And that does it for comments corner. Uh, that's, that's impressive that six years down. I mean, that's like the main thing that Apple offers over Android at this point. I mean, everything, you know, they all have Android high end Android phones. They have great cameras and great screens and the operating system is good. And, but man, you can't find many Android phones that are still kicking six years down the line and have the latest software and, you know, aren't just a total mess of like slowness and restarting and everything else. Yeah. The, the, um, I know that the, what are

1:37:50the, what does Google call their pixels? The pixel phones starting a couple of years ago started, they started promising like five years of software updates and eight years of security updates or something like that. Um, so they'll get there, but guys sure don't see anybody rocking the old, like a five-year-old pixel. You just don't, you just don't see it. Yeah. Right. Right. I mean, I don't really see many people rocking a one-year-old pixel. That's fair. No offense to pixel users. Although I don't have many a lot listening to this show. So

1:38:24we could, we could probably insult them liberally. Okay. Um, all right. That does it for this show next week. Yeah, definitely. Next week, David Price will be on to discuss his, um, Apple watch series 12 review, which now in light of home view, it'll be a little bit more robust. We'll say, cause David had some opinions about the watch, but you know, we'll talk about the software and the design of home view as well, because now, you know, it's almost like there's like a whole nother Apple watch thing. Right. That's out there. Uh, week after that, we

1:39:00might have new iPad. I mean, new max, new max. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's only two weeks away. That might be two weeks away. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to get into a whole nother thing, but yeah, there's a rumor that October 27th, there'll be another one of these types of events like this, like experience type thing where a bunch of stuff drops on the website all at once. So yeah, uh, Roman, you can't take any vacations for the rest of October. Uh, all right. So that's it for this episode of the macro podcast, number

1:39:32one thousand and four, right? Roman. Yep. All right. Um, if you've made it this far, kudos and, um, well, I'm not doing this whole thing. We'll, we'll talk to you next week. Uh, have a good week. Bye-bye.

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1:40:29Apple watch series 12. The features described are for wellness purposes only and not for medical use iPhone 11 or later required based on Apple conducted study of heart rate accuracy August, 2026 visit apple.com slash apple watch series 12. Ryan Reynolds here from mint mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to mint mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mint mobile.com slash switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per

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