Episode 1000: A look back at Macworld Podcast moments

Celebrating One Thousand Episodes

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1:04Unscripted, unfiltered, unafraid. Welcome to the Macworld Podcast. My name is Michael Simon, and I am joined, as always, by Jason Cross. Good morning. And our producer, Roman Loyola. Ahoy there. This is episode number 1,000.

1:31All right, thank you. You can stop. How long is this going? I don't know. I didn't know it was that long. Well, as you can see, I'm not 100% sure what's going to happen today. This is a retrospective look back at 1,000-ish episodes. That was put together by Roman, so he's in charge of this whole thing. We wanted to keep it somewhat spontaneous. So, Jason and I haven't really heard. Like, we know kind of the format, but we don't really know what's going to happen.

2:02So, normally, you'd be tuning in to hear all about iOS 27. That just came out yesterday. This is Tuesday, September 15th. But we're going to do that next week instead. So, our main segment is going to be a look back at major events in Apple and our history. How we covered them. What we have to say about them now. How we got things wrong or right or whatever. Then we'll do a fun little This Week in Apple History, I think. And we will close, I also think, with Comment Corner.

2:34Speaking of comments, you can contact us through Blue Sky, Facebook, or Threads. Search for Macworld. Look for the Blue Mouse logo. Send us an email at podcast.macworld.com. Comment under a video. Comment under a post. Send us an email. Personally, whatever. Just get in touch with us. And we got a thousand and more episodes in us, I think. Right, Roman? How old will we be? Like, we'll be dead, right? Probably. You know, you figure we do. Dead or unemployed, one of the two.

3:05Because you figure we do, like, what? We'll say, conservatively, 40 episodes a year. Okay. So, to get to a thousand is what? Yeah. Another 20, 25 years. Oh, man. If I'm still doing this in 25 years, I'm, like, just unplug my microphone.

3:27So, yeah. Episode number a thousand, we've been looking forward to it for, well, since we realized that we were close to it, like, six months ago. So, this is where we would normally talk about iOS 27. We'll do that next week.

Apple TV Emmys and Widows Bay

3:41Apple had a big Emmy night last night. Widows Bay basically swept every major award.

3:49It's a really good show. I was a little surprised that it won so much. But it was good. It was unique. It was different. Writing was good. So, it won all those awards. Jason, you have anything to say about it? I think they, I didn't follow the whole Emmys thing, but didn't they put, categorize it as a comedy, which. Yeah. Well, it is. I feel like. I think it was a comedy. It's got a few funny moments, but it's very clearly like a supernatural horror kind of thing. It's hard, but I, if I had to classify it as something.

4:23Nah, more than a few. There's a few parentheses. Thriller, horror, like there's, there's so many things that make so much more sense to me than comedy. I don't think of like. Well, it's either comedy or drama. Gosh, I want to laugh and watch a funny show. Let me turn on Widows Bay. Like, that's not, it's not that at all. But it's about, the rules for the Emmys are about like the length of the format. Like, you can't be a drama unless you're an hour or some kind of, I don't, I don't know. It's weird, but it's also just what categories you submitted in. So it was up against hacks and stuff like, I don't know.

4:56Is it more of a comedy than the bear?

5:00Yeah, but that's not a comedy either. That fell to the same problem. Right. Like they had to call it a comedy because of the length of the show. It couldn't be a drama or whatever. Like they, they, they equally have little funny moments throughout a show. That's not there to make you laugh. Like that's not what they're for. I thought Widows Bay was, if I had to classify it, I'd call it a horror comedy. I thought it was more of a comedy show than your usual, like dark matter or something like that.

5:33Like that's a. Sure. There's no funny in dark matter. Right. Yeah. So I thought like I, it was lighthearted enough. Oh man. Did you watch a different show than me? Like every now and then someone says something really funny just, but that's just every now it's not a show made to make you laugh. Yeah. If you want to laugh, don't watch it. But if you want a good show that you, you're going to laugh a few times per episode, you can try. Yeah. It's an absolutely good show. Yeah. It's an excellent show.

6:04I was surprised it won so many awards, but maybe it's because it was in comedy and rather than drama. I don't know. But, um, acting is great. Directing is great. Uh, storyline is excellent. I'm looking forward to season two. Um, Apple TV had a, had a really, really good night with that show and a couple others. And I think they won the most Emmys of any, uh, network. So, and John Turnis was there. He showed off his iPhone duo on the red carpet. It was, it was fun. Yeah. Um, okay. All right. I take it up enough of your time, Roman.

6:35Let's, um, I'm going to pass it along and I'm no longer the host of the show. Roman Loyola is the host of the thousandth episode of the macro podcast for the next, I don't know, 30 minutes or so. So what we thought we'd do for this episode is take a look at some, uh, key podcast moments in retrospective, uh, give it a good, give it a new look. So to speak, uh, you know, gauge what the response was then, um, and, you know, knowing

7:08what we know now, you know, give it a little hot, give it a take of what, you know, what our opinions are now. Um, so we're going to start with a, I hope you only chose, uh, clips where I'm correct. Roman, if I'm in them.

7:27Yes. So, uh, everyone's here will be correct. So that's the end of the podcast. Thank you.

Looking Back at the Original iPhone

7:35Anyways. Uh, so the first clip is, you know, maybe one of the key, if not the key moment, one of the key moment in Apple's history, it's the original iPhone release. Um, and this is episode 64. Um, and so after, after Steve jobs introduced the iPhone, uh, the macro staff got together and did a podcast. And so I'm going to play a little clip. It's about 50 seconds long. And this is their initial reaction to the introduction of the iPhone.

8:12I was somewhat surprised that there was no mention, not even a sentence on leopard, uh, which, you know, we, everybody's sort of assuming will come out this spring. As I said to someone else, the keynote gave me no reason to go to my wife and ask her to spend money. Uh, you know, it's hard to say, honey, I need cash now for a phone that comes out in June. And the, uh, sort of the other disappointment, I call it a, um, I went and visited Apple's booth and it was kind of like a live demonstration of time machine because you walk in and you got to see iLife 06 and you got to see iWork 06. And I thought, geez, I saw all this in January of last year. You could view this, the, if for lack of a better term, the glass half empty approach,

8:46Rob, uh, would be, would be that, that this is Macworld Expo and there aren't any, aren't any Macs, but you could also look at it and say the two products that Steve Jobs showed at the keynote were, um, Mac technologies rolled into consumer electronics products.

9:03So the person who was mainly speaking, there was Rob Griffiths, who was a, uh, editor here at Macworld and the person responding was Jason Snell, who was the editor in chief of Macworld at the time. Um, the reason why I picked that clip in particular was because I think we tend to forget that at one point, a very long part of Apple's history, Apple was just Macs. Yeah. And Mac accessories, like you would think an iPod wasn't like a thing, like you were used

9:34to that, but that wasn't, uh, you know, a whole operating system, a whole thing, like a whole, you know, is an accessory that you bought other things. Right. Right. And here, Apple basic with the iPhone, they basically introduced a new platform. Yeah. And the way that, uh, we reacted to it was that we compared it to the Mac, which is kind of an odd thing to me because in retrospect, we all see this, I met, uh, iPhone introduction

10:05as this huge thing. And, you know, we get caught up in the whole spectacle of it. And, you know, when I was at that event, I was, I was mesmerized. Yeah. And, you know, to hear Rob and Jason talk about it from a different angle, from a Mac perspective was a little, was, I was sort of not expecting that. So it says on the screen to me in a way, um, because there's two things about that makes sense. One is we weren't used to Apple announcing something new that wouldn't be out for like

10:41months, like six months, like this is going to be released. And it's happened several times since then, but that was a fairly unusual thing to happen at Mac one expo. Usually something was coming out within weeks. Like it was imminent. And the other is that smartphones at the time were pitched, the windows ones and everything else were all pitched as taking your computer on the go. Like they were really about building your computer technology into a little smart, you know, handheld

11:14device. So that was kind of the framing of what smartphones were when they were new back then. So it's not, I guess it's not so surprising that they kind of thought of it in that same framing. It says on the screen that it was September 10th, the podcast. So that's three days after January announcement. So I guess they had some time to think about it. Um, yeah, yeah, it is interesting that, so it's, it's, yes, it's called Mac world or was called Mac world. It's, it's worth noting that I think this was the last time Apple or Steve jobs went to

11:49the Mac world expo. I think it was very quickly. Um, they left in 08 or maybe 09 and that was sometime after that. Yeah. Not too long after it. I mean, I'm not going to say that they didn't see the vision cause I, I mean, I, I'm sure in the rest of the podcast, they talk about what it means, but yeah, it's interesting that they, for one point out that there's no leopard, which, you know, that's just, that's for those who don't know, that's one of the operating systems. Apple used to name it OS 10 after cats.

12:21So yeah, Jaguar and I don't remember what 10.4, maybe leopard. I don't remember. Um, I don't know. I think that if like looking at the iPhone duo now, it just came out last week and our episode about it last week was like, we were just, we wanted to see it. We couldn't wait to get our hands on it. And, uh, I want to go to the Apple store and look at it. And it's expensive. Like there's all of that, but never once that I think of, of, but it's not, uh, I mean,

12:55I guess a Mac isn't the right word now because it's like, we don't think of those terms anymore, but I didn't think of like, oh, it's not an iPad or it's not, it doesn't run iPad OS. Like it's, it's, it's its own thing. Right. And it's funny to look at it now, 20 years later or 25 years later or whatever it is and say like, you know, how could you, how could you look at this brand new thing in terms of, of what you were using already. But as Jason says, it was weird for Apple to release a platform that had no real correlation

13:27to the Mac. Yeah. Apple went out of their way to describe the iPhone OS as being Mac OS made for writing and stuff. And, and that's also what all the like little windows smartphones and everything else were. So yeah, I think that was a product of its time in that way. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so before we go on to the next podcast clip, we have a little message from somebody. So let's take a look.

13:57Hey, this is Sarus Farvar. I started the Mac world podcast way back in 2005 and I just wanted to extend my hearty congratulations on reaching a thousand episodes. That is amazing. Uh, I honestly didn't know how long it would go when I started it way back in 2005, I was tucked into a little tiny office, uh, down in, uh, at the Mac world offices on second street in San Francisco, but it's really awesome to see that this project has continued, uh, into the future. So here's to a thousand more.

14:29Keep it up. Thanks.

Early Days of Podcasting

14:322005. So that was, um, four years after the iPod or three years after the iPod, cause it was late, it was late 2001. Um, that was pretty early on in the podcast movement, so to speak. Oh yeah. You know, kudos to him for, for seeing the vision there and you know, how it, the, the format could, could grow because, um, you know, there weren't a ton of them back then. There were some, but, um, we were probably one of the first, if that was Oh five, you know, top 50 or first 50 or whatever.

15:04Yeah. I think we were one of the first podcasts out there. Um, I mean, you know, you know, how many, there aren't many podcasts that can say they have a thousand episodes over X amount of years. I mean, there are a lot of podcasts that can say that they have a thousand episodes, but a lot of them are. Yeah. There's a lot of dailies. Yeah. A lot of dailies are even more, you know, less frequently, but more episodes. So, uh, it's funny that he said that he, you know, was basically did it in the back room because nothing has really changed office.

15:38I'm still in a back room. It's just, it's just that we've decorated it. So back then you had to download it, put it on your iPod, listen to, you know, like you, it wasn't like now where you press a button and the podcast app and it starts playing. Like you had to really want to listen to us back then. We're not us, but, but the, uh, the people who were doing it. Yeah. Uh, if anyone's listening, if anyone's listening, if anyone listening is that's accurate room, if anyone listening, listened back when Saroos did the podcast, let us

16:15know. It'd be interesting to hear from you. Uh, that's, that was a long time ago. And back then the podcast was called geek factor. Oh, no. Yeah. That's interesting. And then it went on for, I think it went for, I want to say 15 or so episodes before it changed to the Mac world podcast. Huh? Okay. Yeah.

The Introduction of the MacBook Air

16:37All right. Our next podcast clip comes from episode 103. Uh, this was actually on my birthday, but I'm not on the show. So, um, and this was during the, uh, this is in reaction to the introduction of the Mac book air. So let's take a listen. I think the form factor, at least for me was a surprise. You know, we were talking about a sub notebook. It's thinner, but it's not smaller.

17:07And I think that was, that was kind of surprising to me because a lot of people are saying, no, I want something I can put in a big cargo pocket or feel like I can just sort of put it up in a big handbag. And no, it's still a full size laptop. It's just really, really, really thin. It's almost the exact same footprint as a Mac book. I mean, it's typical Apple, right? They, they, they wouldn't compromise on the keyboard and they wouldn't compromise on the screen, which you kind of can't do given their interface. So what are you left with? They can make it thinner. It goes back to when the, um, titanium power book came out and that was what they talked

17:38about was how thin it was. It was really super wide, but it was thin. And they've got thin and they've got light and you know, that's, that's, uh, for a lot of people, that's going to be enough. Uh, that was, uh, Chris Breen who hosted the podcast for several years, Dan Frakes and Jason Snell. You know, it's, it's interesting when that Mac book air came out, there was a lot of talk that Apple should come out with. They were, I think they were called net books or ultra books back then. They were these little tiny things.

18:08The ultra books, ultra books was, came out in the name ultra books came in response to the Mac book air. Oh, so everyone called them net books and stuff. Uh, and then, yeah, once, once everybody tried to copy the Mac book air, they Intel started calling those ultra books. Right. So yeah, when the air came out, there was a large selection of, of, of Mac users who wanted like a seven inch Mac book. And it was, uh, you know, they were, they're correct in that and that Apple refused to compromise

18:40on the two things that matter most, the keyboard and the screen real estate. And they basically said, we're going to go thin and light for portability and not just tinier. And that's, I think it worked. Yeah. I, uh, at that time I was in charge of laptop reviews at PC world and net net books were where everyone was racing to, everyone was racing to make a smaller, cheaper, and frankly, crappier windows laptop. And they were seven or eight inches is the size.

19:13They, they, they would still be thick as a regular laptop. They got small, small and light by being smaller. And they, there were all kinds of usability problems. I mean, Apple absolutely made the right call, which we all knew because this is what everybody copied. Right. All the windows things started copying the Mac book air. Um, and, and as a side note, we talked about, we just talked about them leaving Mac world expo. That was the last real big product they announced at Mac world expo 2009. 2009, the year after that was Apple's last year at the Mac world expo, but they didn't

19:47announce anything big, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was a year off. Uh, I forgot about the air the next year. Yeah. This was a year after the iPhone. And I mean, Apple was just on a roll. They had the iPod and then two years later, the iPad came out. Like they were just, they were just, this was like their like renaissance. Yeah. There was a six or eight year run there where it was a big deal. And, you know, now you look at something like the duo and it's the same thing, you know,

20:17folding phones have been out for a while and, you know, Samsung's was working on this form factor. And then Apple said, no, no, no, no, no, this, this is how you're supposed to do it. And now they're, you know, there's a, there's a, a bunch of, you know, I won't call them copycats because they came out first, but it's hard not to, it's, it's hard not to think. The only reason why they went in that direction now is because the rumors, there was tons of rumors that Apple was going this way. And, you know, like they copied before Apple even got there. That's the, that's been Samsung and Huawei's MO for the last five or six years.

20:51Is that as soon as it becomes clear, Apple's going to do something, they rush to copy Apple before Apple announces it. The air and, and to the iPhone, it, it, it's such a quaint time because like, we did not know those things were coming. Like when Steve Jobs pulled the air out of the envelope, it was a legitimate surprise to see a laptop that thin that could, like, we didn't know now forget it. Like, you know, we know things that are coming out three years from now.

21:22And yes, the duo, there were some things we didn't know and it was cool to see it. The introduction was still exciting, but man, that element of surprise was so much better than it is now. Uh, the side effect of going from, uh, a company that's making a couple million, maybe of a, of a product a year to making a hundred million of a product a year is that, you know, the, the way you get the supply chain involved and manufacturing and all that stuff, it's in

21:54a whole different world now. Flowing ad budget on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them. That's bull spend and marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it, it wasn't. Cut the bull spend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title, and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit.

22:25Go to linkedin.com slash campaign terms and conditions apply. It's football season and you can now get almost anything you need for game day delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a running back delivered, but you can get baby back ribs delivered. A strong defense? No. A strong deodorant? Yes. A six pack of abs? Nope. Six pack of beer? Yes. Get almost, almost anything for game day delivered with Uber Eats. Official on-demand food delivery partner of the NFL. Order now. Alcohol 21 Plus and in select cities.

22:57Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

23:00All right. Before we move on to our next clip, we have another message. Hey there, Macworld Podcast. This is Dan Morin. I'm the East Coast Bureau Chief at SixColors.com and a former senior editor at Macworld, as well as a sometimes host of the Macworld Podcast back in the day. I just want to say congratulations on reaching 1,000 episodes. That is quite a milestone. My fondest memory of the Macworld Podcast is probably from many years ago where we did a podcast on the floor of Macworld Expo with four people named Dan.

23:34I don't think that feed has ever been repeated since. I'm not sure. This is... Don't fact check me. Anyways, really appreciate all the great work you've done. Congrats. And here's to 1,000 more. Roman, do you know who the Dan people were? The Dan names were? We used to call it the Dan cast. And they would do it. And they... I think the first one was... The first one, I don't know who the fourth Dan was. I think it was a developer or someone. But we had, at the time, three Dans on the Macworld staff.

24:04We had Dan Morin. We had Dan Frakes. And we had Dan Miller. I don't... Like I said, I don't know who the fourth Dan was at the show floor when they did the initial one. But they did... I think they did two or three more Dan casts with just the three of them. It was Miller, Frakes, and Morin and the Mac user contributor, Dan Porhati. Oh, Dan Porhati. According to a really, really old article on our website that's still there from 2008 that

24:36got pulled in. I did not meet Dan Porhati. So that might have been before my time or... Yeah. I like in that MacBook Air clip that you can hear the crowd murmur behind them. You get that, I don't know, Macworld convention feel. It's cool. Yeah. Those were the good old days of having a show floor. So, um, which actually that's a good, that's a good, uh, segue, uh, Mike to, so this is,

25:09we're saying this is the 1000th episode, but there are, we did do some, uh, live or not live, but we did shows from the show floor that were recorded and then posted as the Macworld podcast. I want to say that's maybe 10, 15 episodes and they've been kind of lost. Uh, so if you did the actual count, we're at like 1,005 or 10 or something.

25:40Hey, listen, don't, don't fact check us anybody. So as long as we've been counting, we're up, we're up to, we're up to a thousand. So, um, yeah. So, but yeah, we're calling this the official 1000th episode. It's number 1000. And I think it's safe to say it's at least the thousandth. Yes. That's a good point. It's at least a thousand. We're not, we're not under, we're celebrating the fact that we've made at least a thousand episodes. How about that?

Reflecting on Siri

26:08So, uh, our next podcast, uh, clip comes from episode 266 on October 12th, 2011. And this is when Apple introduced Siri. This clip is a little longer. So, uh, just stay tuned. Now let's talk about Siri. I've heard it described as being in beta. Is that so? It is in beta because they want it to be, um, to do more than it does now. I mean, it basically does some stuff now and, uh, it's not ever going to do everything,

26:43but I think Apple would like it to be somewhere in between some stuff and everything. And right now it's just sort of, it's a grab bag of stuff. You, it's very cool when it works, but there's lots of stuff that it doesn't, you know, it just, it doesn't work it, it, for whatever reason it, um, it, it, you, you, you reach the barriers at the end, you reach the walls of it very quickly. So looking into the future, do you think Siri is the way Apple believes we should be interacting with our devices?

27:13Ah, I don't think so. I think, I think Apple thinks that Siri is a solution to some, some complex problems. I think there are things, right? And I think if you look at like, uh, Watson on Jeopardy, where, where there's this real like natural language database happening, knowledge database happening behind the scenes and you see the Apple's ties in with, uh, will from Alpha, I do think they think, they believe that, um, asking for basic information is something that could be done in this, in

27:46this sort of interface. So I do think Apple believes that, uh, although we're not there yet. This isn't Star Trek yet where you can just, you know, T, Earl Grey, hot. Um, I don't think, I don't think we're there yet, but that's what Siri is about. Siri isn't about recognizing, um, what you say and turning it into words. It does that, but you know, and there's the new dictation feature that's in every app in the, on the iPhone 4S, which does speech to text. That's not what Siri is about. Siri is about taking the words you say and from that, figuring out what you actually want

28:17and giving it back to you. So that was, uh, Chris Breen and Jason Snell talking about, uh, Siri. We could have, we could have recorded that like last year and it would have still kind of accurate. Yeah. That's the funny thing I was about to say. Like, it's, it's kind of funny how Apple squandered this massive lead. Yeah. I remember actually using the Siri app. Siri was an app that Apple purchased and then built into the OS. They, they, they bought the app, they shut it down. And then it, but I remember when it was just an app, I remember downloading it on my iPhone

28:51three GS or whatever it was at the time and going like, oh, this is really cool. Like, uh, granted I lived in San Francisco where everything worked, but I was, I could get, I could just ask for a dinner reservation. It would hook into open table and like, get it. And there's all that stuff. Right. Uh, and I remember thinking how cool it was and then they bought it and they built it in the OS. And I remember thinking how cool that was. And then it kind of didn't change for years and years and years. Like they just kept doing little tiny little things, but it never really made the big leap.

29:23And then everybody else did and left them in the dust. And as of yesterday, we kind of have finally a Siri that catches back up to being, you know, in the race with everybody else. It's a little, I don't know if ironic's the word, but it's, it is funny, but just to build on what Mike said, if they had not released Siri until like last year in the past couple of years. But at, at the beginning when that clip, so that was Scott Forrestal unveiling Siri, which

29:56you know, I miss that guy. He was, he was awesome. But, um, when that, that demo, when he demoed the, the, the early workings of Siri, it was pretty mind blowing. Like, I remember the big thing was like, you would be like, Hey, do I need an umbrella today? And it went on to understand that you're asking about the weather. You want to know if it's raining, your, your location is here and this is when you'll be out that was mind blowing stuff at the time. And yeah, it never, like, we saw that vision that they were talking about, um, where it

30:28could do all these things and, you know, the Star Trek reference. Sure. And we never got there until, well, we, I mean, we're closer now. We're closer now. And, uh, Jason Snell's comment about how like you ran into the barriers very quickly in those early days. It's true. And it remained true for a long time. Like it really understood keywords. So when you said, do I need an umbrella? It would say, check the forecast. If rain, yes, if not, no, if you phrased it in a different way, using some different

31:00language than other than like the keywords that it understood to mean check the weather report, it just didn't understand what you were saying at all. It's really only just the version we just got with Siri AI, where it kind of understands your meaning and context in a much richer way. Yeah. And Apple, you know, that was from 2011, that clip. So 15 years app Siri has been on our phone and no one, not no one, but people don't use it like the way they should now.

31:33And I hope that they realize the people, everyone who downloaded iOS 27, we'll talk about all this stuff next week, but yeah, I hope people realize how good it is because it is so good now. And I, I, I've been using it for a couple of months with the beta and I have to remind myself, I can use Siri now as a, as a, as a knowledge engine. I can use it as a search engine. I can use it for all the things that we always wanted it to be. And it actually truly works. All right. So our next, we have another comment from a, actually, this is from a current Macworld

32:09contributor. So let's take a look. Hi, this is the Macworld and I'm here to wish the Macworld podcast hearty congratulations on 1000 episodes. Amazing. During the run, you've seen so many things come and go. The iPod Nano, the iPod touch Intel based Macs, the Mac pro does ridiculous $10,000 Apple watches, and now even Tim Cook as CEO. Con, who knows what products you might see come and go in your next 1000. I'm hoping for jetpacks personally.

32:40Congratulations. You don't like an episode over 999. That's awesome. Thank you. Macalope. So the Macalope was a infrequent guest in the past. Okay. Yeah. We haven't had the Macalope on in a while. I've never, I've never had, I've never done an episode with the Macalope. Was it always a voice disguised like that? Well, that's the question. Is the Macalope's voice disguised or is that his natural voice?

33:11Because he is part Macalope, he's part antelope and part Mac. So, yeah. Do we have, do you, is anyone, either of you know the history of Macalope, the Macalope? Was it born here? Did it happen to saunter into the Macworld offices one day and ask to write a column? You know, I can't remember where the Macalope started. Um, the Macalope has been on different websites and I think at one point it was even at CNET.

33:45Oh, that's interesting. And then it came to Macworld. I don't remember where Macalope originated. I, I, I shouldn't know that, but I, I, I don't. Hey, I do see it on CNET. I had no idea. Yeah. He was on CNET. Uh, 2000, August 2008 was the last article by the Macalope. So, so he is post iPhone on Macworld. Interesting. Yeah. I did not know that. I thought that was like a Macworld born and bred creature.

34:16Macalope's been around, been around the, uh, I don't know what it was, been around the track. Is that the right? Oh, he has it. There's a. Around the block. That's what it is. So the Macalope website, which I also didn't know existed. Uh, the, the last time that was updated was October 17, 2007. It's also CNET.

Removing the Headphone Jack

34:34All right. Our next podcast clip comes from episode 524. And this, uh, clip requires some courage to listen to. Yeah. The audio jack being removed. I mean, Apple is usually like suck it up by an adapter this time anticipating backlash. The adapter, they've included an adapter and you get an adapter. I think including the adapter changes the equation. I feel like they've tried to cover all the bases. I mean, as far as, I mean, assuming, you know, when you start, when you go from the starting

35:06point of we're getting rid of the 3.5 millimeter jack, they've tried to do what they can to make it more palatable, which is include the lightning headphones and include an adapter. So the interesting thing about this particular episode is that it's a Glenn Fleischman and John Maltz who are the people talking there. They didn't talk about the courage thing that, uh, Phil Schiller did. Maybe they did in subsequent episodes, but they didn't do it in this particular episode. But the courage thing was kind of the thing that it was like stood out from that presentation.

35:38Yeah. I feel like if he didn't use that word at that point, it wouldn't have been as big of a deal. So, right, like really emphasized it too. I mean, yeah, yeah. Like we are so, we're so brave to take away the damage. Right. And, you know, it turned out he was right because they started the ball rolling and now you can't even find a phone with the headphone jack anymore. Maybe there's a couple, but most of them don't have it. To frame it in 2016 as like this big courageous act. People were like, well, what the hell? Like, I just want to plug in my, my headphones and listen to my music like I've been doing

36:09forever. Right. Yeah. You know, the, the, the, the dongle was a, was a good compromise, but then you couldn't charge it and also listen to music at the same time, which people, you know, bothered people and, you know, but again, they ended up being totally right and it's fine. And now we have AirPods and no one thinks about plugging in their headphones anymore. And ironically, you can, like you can, there's a lot of USB solutions and you can plug in USB headphones and all those things. I mean, they gave out USB-C, not USB-C, it was lightning, but the time they gave out

36:40lightning headphones and they gave out a dongle with every iPhone, which was, you know, as good of a concession as you're going to get from Apple for sure. You remember the, that didn't last too long. Yeah. But they were like two, two generations. Well, the headphones were around for a little while and then they stopped giving out those two. So remember the original iPhone, I don't know if you guys got one or bought one, but like there was like, there was a case, there were, there were like headphones in like a carrying case. It got a, got a cloth.

37:11Like, I remember the headphones coming in a little plastic shell thing that you could, yep. Yeah. Like, like, like, wind them up. Yeah. I think it was actually the same case that if you just bought earbuds, like it would be. Yeah, it was. You could buy earbuds separately and that's what they would have. Yeah. Oh, look at those people. Jeez. Oh my God. How old am I? I'm like 12 years old. I know. What the hell am I looking like? Roman, take this off the screen.

37:39I do have that same poster still. Yeah. So this next clip, this is the last clip we're going to talk about. Well, actually there's one more clip technically, but not in this segment. So anyways, this last clip is about the iPhone 10.

The iPhone X Anniversary

37:56This is so old Jason doesn't even have glasses. I know. All right. So it is a minute and a half clip. It's a little longer clip, but here we go. It's a little harder to hear because the music's playing in the background. I don't have the original files to fix it. So here we go. Okay. We have a staff writer, Mike Simon. Hi, Mike. Hello. Good afternoon. Good morning, rather. And new to the Macworld podcast, Anthony Macworld. He's been here for like a week now. Oh, is that right, Jason? That's a little, just over a week. Yeah.

38:26Is our new staff writer, Jason Cross. Hi, Jason. Hello. Apple's well known for their sort of attention to craftsmanship and detail. And it's really overboard with the iPhone 10. It's really, I would say, like finally assembled. I, before I got the iPhone, the ORD iPhone 10, I was ready to just completely hate the notch. And the, you know, the notch in pictures, it looks, it looks really distracting. You know, it kind of juts into the screen. And once you use it, I, you know, now I, I, I kind of like it.

39:00I like having a little bit more of the screen of the picture behind, you know, whatever, whatever's showing on the screen to go up, you know, around the camera. Two quick points about the notch. One is in an app that really supports it well, hopefully I'm going to do the camera here. It's not so much that the notch cuts into the display of what you're looking at. It's that you have little horns of extra display. Right, right. Exactly. That get out of the, gets the status bar stuff out of the way so that the app takes up the

39:34full area that you would otherwise do. The other thing is, I think the reason that Apple did this is if you look at the distance between the display and the edge of the phone all around, even on the corners, the bottom, everywhere, all the way to the top, it's the exact same distance. I just want to say for Jason's first time on the Macro podcast, he's a natural. He knew how to hold the phone up and demonstrate it. That was excellent. I had done video stuff prior to this.

40:05Yeah. God, if I even sound young, God, I hate it. I hate this. Yeah, me too. Yeah, I do too. God. How come I have a Skype background? That's a better question. How dare you? Oh, yeah. I didn't have a Skype. That is weird. Yeah. We all sound weird. It's strange. I'm looking at the background behind me and it's like, and remembering how my office was all set up differently and everything. Yeah. I still have that map. I just don't know why there's Skype up there, but maybe we had a call on Skype back then.

40:37I bet we did. I bet we were doing this over Skype. I do have that map of the US behind me. I still have it. Now it's in front of me.

40:45Also, we all have wired headphones, which is fun. Yeah. We still, we hadn't, we hadn't gotten AirPods just, I guess we weren't using them or maybe they weren't good enough to use. I don't know. They were out. We just didn't. Yeah. We didn't use them. Maybe they weren't. No, no. Yeah. They were out by the iPhone 10.

41:05So that was about. You look younger too, Roman. Yeah. I actually have black in my hair and my hair is much more fuller than, so I still have that shirt, by the way. I love that shirt.

41:21I love that. I love Ben Davis stuff. So anyways, we were talking about the iPhone 10 at the time. Yeah. I don't know if our perspectives change about the iPhone 10 at all. You know, it's been, I don't know how many years now. So it's, I don't, you know, it was a great phone. It was a landmark phone because it introduced a notch and a new form factor and everything. I mean, in a lot of ways we still have it because, I mean, the notch is gone, but the

41:52Diamond High and McAllen's there. There's still something up there that you can focus on. But I, just like I, Jason or whoever said it in the clip, once you start using it, like it's, it's, you don't see it as a, as a, as you're taking away screen space. This thing is more of an immersive thing because before the iPhone 10, remember we had that square little thing with the top and the bottom chin and the, and the, the, the forehead at the top, like there was no screen. The iPhone 10 was revolutionary. I mean, and it's, and it, you know, it's still like, it still is.

42:23I don't ever notice the dynamic island or the notch. Like what you're, you're looking at the content in front of you. You don't focus on the top of the screen. And in pictures, it's much more of an eyesore or something to focus on. I feel like our takeaway when that was new was that these things that people are complaining about not having touch ID and, and the notch and whatever stuff we were like, it's not a big deal. You very quickly fall in love with this form factor and this, and the big screen and the

42:53even bezels and all that other kind of stuff. And we kind of liked it. We were like, no, this is not a problem. This is great. That this is, if this is the future of iPhone, then they've really used all the, everything they've learned about making like refined manufacturing and, and made a great thing. And I think we were probably spot on in retrospect. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the, the, the reason, the only reason why they kept it running the iPhone 8 at the time is because the iPhone 10 was a thousand bucks. And if they didn't have a cheaper option, they would have, iPhone sales would have cratered

43:27because at the time, a thousand dollars was a lot to pay for a phone. But yeah, as far as the design, as far as the, the, the whole concept, I mean, 10 years later and it's still great. Even the duo in some ways is similar to the iPhone 10 with the rounded corners and the edge to edge vegetables and the guy in the guy, like, you know, that whole thing, they really saw where phones were going and no, you know, there were plenty of Android phones at the time that had larger displays, but no one was doing it like, like that.

43:57And they still, it's crazy to think 10 years later and no other Android phone has implemented face ID like Apple has none. Maybe there's like, maybe like, like Huawei or somebody, but none of the, the major US like Google, they have facial recognition, but not like Apple does. Like it's like a flat thing. It uses the camera. No one has that true depth thing that Apple came out with for, I don't know why, maybe it's too expensive. Maybe they, I don't know, but they're still the only company, the only company to offer

44:29that like they do. It's, it's, it was impressive then. It's impressive now. Roman, if I'm, if I'm wrong about any of that, don't tell anyone. But I, but I think, I, I think, I think it's true. Like it's like they offer facial recognition. I all do, but not in the same way, not as, um, not exactly the same way and maybe not as secure, but they do have more than just like, oh, we're just looking at your face with the front camera for a while there. That's what they were doing. And you could fool them with a photo. You could fool them with a printout of a face and it's, it's better. There's use infrared and stuff now.

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46:06All right. To wrap this all up, we have one last message from a former Macworld staffer. Here we go. Hi. Welcome to another Breen's Bungalow. I'm... What? Are you not doing that anymore? Okay.

46:24Oh, Mac 911 Special Edition. I'm... That too? Okay. Let's see what's left. Oh, the podcast. The podcast, of course. I'm Chris Breen. I was once the host or co-host of the Macworld podcast from episode 51 through 444. And now you guys have made it to a thousand episodes, which is just awesome. I'm a regular viewer and listener, and I am so proud of you guys.

46:57Keep up the great work.

47:00So, yeah. Chris Breen left a lot of... You know, he left his mark with the podcast. And, you know, he... People don't know. He actually wrote the theme music that we use right now. So, Chris is kind of a... He knows how to do a lot of stuff. I'll just put it that way. Jack of all trades. He's a renaissance man. Jack of all trades. But he's also very good at the stuff he does. He's a musician. He has a band, or he used to have a band.

47:30And he actually, after he left Apple, or after he left Macworld, he went to go work for Apple. And was there for now. He's now retired. But he kind of took over the reins of the Macworld podcast after Saroos left. And he kind of took off with it. Even though, at that time, podcasting wasn't really a priority, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

48:00So, he was mostly a column... He mostly wrote Mac911 and did a lot of help stuff. And then he did the podcast. But he put a lot of effort into the podcast.

48:11So, a lot of long-time listeners will remember Chris. Chris is a really good guy on top of that. I worked for Chris as a freelancer before I was a staff member of Macworld. But I never met him. But, yeah, he was a great guy to chat with on email and phone. So, that does it for our retrospective. That was fun, except for the jarring look at us from 12 years ago.

48:44God, yeah. Yikes. Yeah. I didn't like the way I felt it at all. I didn't mind it that much, because I didn't look that much different.

49:00Should we move on to... Hey, man.

Apple Watch and the U2 Album

49:05It's your show. Apple history? All right. Let's move on to Apple history. Even though we've basically been doing an episode of Apple history. Apple history this whole time. Yeah, yeah. So, this whole time. So, all right. So, this week in Apple history... Oh, yeah. So, this podcast was a day after the Apple event on September 9th, 2014. And that was the introduction of the Apple Watch, the original Apple Watch. Yeah. Now, it didn't start shipping until April of the next year.

49:36Right. Let's listen. And so, you're going to hear Chris Breen and Serenity Caldwell do kind of like a post-mortem of the announcement. And this is actually a really long clip. So, it's over two minutes. Okay. And then the one more thing. In the last two weeks, the wearable rumors were heating up to the point where... Frenzy. Frenzy. Yeah. About the last two days, everybody said, yeah, you know what? iPhone is going to kind of be an afterthought. And I think maybe it was.

50:08Yeah. This was, again, in terms of Tim planting his flag, it's like, okay, here's a new product category for us. This is a significant one. This is how we think it should be done. And they released, or at least they announced, not the iWatch, but the Apple Watch. Love it. I love the name. And I saw it on screen. It looked really impressive. I mean, a lot of impressive elements about it. The UI is interesting that they basically took your little watch stem and it turned it

50:38into the one button device or the one wheel sort of device. It does touch in a couple of different ways. And I think tellingly, at least on the stream, when they showed the images of it, more often than not, it was on a woman's arm than a man's arm, which demonstrated, I think, the world, which is this is actually something that's wearable and is fashionable. Yes. And it doesn't look like a huge, ugly brick on your arm. There was a special appearance from U2, which was kind of awesome.

51:10It's not every day that you wake up and you accidentally get to go to a concert when you're covering things for your job. But at the end, there was a kind of overwrought skit, but ended up being U2 basically being like, oh, we're going to give you our album for free on iTunes. Yes. And Tim Cook makes this little aside with a nod and a wink to the camera saying, hey, if you're not on iTunes yet, sign up before mid-October and you'll get this album for free.

51:40And, you know, the three of us, Macworld folk, were sitting there live blogging. We all look at each other. We're basically, this is a very subtle ploy to get even more people to sign up with their credit cards so that mid-October, hmm, when, when does Apple Pay launches? Could it be October? Hmm.

52:01Oh, yeah, that was Apple Pay, that event, too. That event was loaded. Yeah, that was a loaded event because that was Apple Pay. And the iPhone 6 was a big deal, too. Like, well, that got totally overshadowed, but that was a larger screen and a plus version. And by the time they recorded that, which was the day after, the big, like, not conspiracy, but it was a, the U2 thing kind of bit them because they didn't just give it away. They put it in everyone's library.

52:33Yeah, they forced it out. It was messed up. I don't understand to this day why they didn't just offer a link that you could, if you wanted it, you can get it. It makes no sense to me. Or just have it, you go to the store and the button says free and you just click it, right? Like, instead of that, they just, like, put it in everyone's library and people who didn't want U2 were real mad and understandably so. And so it's funny to hear them talk about it so positively and the other side of that

53:03because none of that had happened yet. Right. So it was free. So Roman, the reason why this is in Apple history is because today is the anniversary of the support page and the tool that they, that they released to remove the record if you didn't want it. If you didn't want it. So there's a support page, remove iTunes gift album, songs of innocence from your iTunes music library and purchases. So they, they created a tool, a website that literally got the, cause there was no way that

53:36you couldn't get rid of it the normal way. Like normally you can go to the thing and delete and it's gone. It refused to leave. Right. Like you could get rid of the, you could delete the files, but that own, that was in your library still like your, your, your ownership of that. It just wasn't downloaded anymore. And that's not what you wanted. People were like, I don't want it in my library. And it was a different time because that like streaming music services weren't a thing yet. Right. So people really cared and curated and crafted their, their iTunes library.

54:08And there was this album they didn't want mucking it up. And again, I don't understand. It's not like you two needed help to sell records. No, no. Yeah. So people are watching this on YouTube saw that I put some screenshots up. So I actually watched that little skit that Serenity was talking about. I remember they put their, their, their fingers together. Yeah. And so what there is, there's some banter about how giving this album out for free will make it the most, uh, the most highest distributed album ever.

54:43Yeah. And Bono says that they're not giving, he, he makes some joke about giving it away for free, but, but Apple should pay for it. Kind of, he doesn't, that's not what he said verbatim, but there's a joke implying that we're not just going to give it away for free. Hey, you have to pay for it or someone has to pay for it. Right. So it is. Yeah. It's technically their album sales because Apple pays probably 10 cents per each one they give out or something. And so in terms of like the record for album sales, it's still considered an album sale.

55:16Right. Right. So it made me think that in retrospect, that the reason why they forced it on everyone was that there was probably some kind of contractual basis on that, that they were going to guarantee X amount of downloads to make it the number one downloaded album. And that was the way to do it. That's what my theory is. I don't, well, we'll never know if that's true or not, but cause we were wondering why didn't they just make it a link? Well, if you just make it a link, not everyone's going to download it.

55:47And then that doesn't guarantee that YouTube gets the downloads that they wanted. That's my theory. Maybe you're right. I don't know. It wasn't, it was not, not their best, not their best moment. No. Am I wrong? Am I wrong in thinking like, that was like the, the last culturally relevant thing YouTube has done? Cause they haven't like that was like the end of YouTube.

56:18I'm trying, I'm trying to think of like how, when was into YouTube, like sort of in the news or whatever after that, it's not like they broke up or anything from that, but like, yeah, you're right. It was the last time they were sort of in the cultural zeitgeist of, of just people's anything. I think the last big news YouTube made was, I want to say a couple of years ago, they played this, they had a residency at the sphere in Las Vegas. Oh, you're right. Yeah. And that was kind of a big thing because it was, you know, opening of this.

56:50I don't know if it was the exact. I think it was, I think it was the first, the first thing they had there. Yeah. And the sphere is this crazy venue in Las Vegas. Back then when something went into your iTunes library, it's like now, and it's syncing onto my iPod and it's coming up on my shuffle and whatever, you know, you don't, I didn't want that. Yeah. So I, I get that. I get why the people being upset about it just going into your library. And because they were this big band and there's a, just automatically, if you're that, if you're

57:21that huge, there's backlash. It's like, if they did it today with Taylor Swift, half the world would be like, I hate this shit, you know? So yeah. And they're going to be like, like Taylor Swift needs help to sell 500 million albums. Right. It was a poorly conceived, poorly executed moment. I think if they just, from the beginning just made it that it, you just, when you go to the iTunes store, it says free and you just click it. Like if that was all it ever did, then I think, well, one, they wouldn't have gotten their 500

57:52million quote album sales. Right. But, uh, but I don't think anybody would have been upset at all. Right. All right. Should we move on to comment corner?

Listener Questions on WatchOS

58:02Uh, got a couple comments, uh, in regards to the, can I make a comment about, about how old I am based on that last clip?

58:16Uh, our first email comes from Damon D. He, he asks, will my Apple watch 11 be slower on watchOS 27 if my phone doesn't have Apple intelligence support? Hmm. That's a good question. I actually don't know. Jason, do you have any idea? I have not noticed that watchOS 27 has made my Apple watch and I have an S10 any slower, uh, about most things. The one thing that I have noticed is that Siri, using Siri on my Apple watch is way slower

58:53with watchOS 27. The new Siri on Apple watch does not run very quickly on a series 10. Okay. It's a, it's a lot slower to start a timer or turn off a light or add something to my shopping list or anything I might do with my watch with Siri. It's much slower with the new Siri on an S10. I expect the new S12s would not be that way. Yeah. I would hope so. If you don't have a, um, Oh, go ahead. If you don't have an iPhone 15 pro or newer and you install watchOS 27, just the Siri app

59:31doesn't show up, I guess. I have no idea if the new Siri on watchOS 27, because it does all, it does do some local stuff. So I have no idea if you would get Siri AI at all. If your phone doesn't support Siri AI, I think you can't because I think you can't even go get in the wait list. I think you have to do that on your phone, which you need a 15 pro or newer for. So I don't think you even get it. I think you just kind of keep using old Siri.

1:00:01And I don't know if that's, um, I don't know if that's also slower, but all the other things my watch does all interacting with all the apps and just, you know, notifications and all that other stuff my watch does is workout tracking all that just as fast as it ever was. Really? So Apple's footnotes says Siri AI is available in beta in watchOS 27 and requires an Apple intelligence enabled device set to a supported language. So I'm assuming that means Siri AI, the app won't even in, won't show up on your watch.

1:00:37Yeah. I don't know if it will, if you sit, for example, don't have, if you have a Siri AI capable Mac, but not an iPhone, and then you go join the wait list and get Siri AI on your Mac. It does say device on iPhone. You have it on your Apple watch. It says device on iPhone. So, so I'm not sure, but just, he asked about performance. The only thing that I've noticed being slower, and I don't have an S11, I have an S10, but I noticed Siri being much, much slower, but everything else runs just as fast as it ever has.

1:01:07Uh, Roman, can you reply to that guy and ask him what happened? I'm curious. Oh, now that he's, now that he can, did he, did he install it? And if he did, what happened? We'll ask him. Yeah. I'm curious. Yeah. Um, I got another email where we're just going to speculate on the answer. I should have said that. Uh, William L via email asked, um, I have a question about audio intelligence. Actually, I think he means live rewind.

1:01:39If the watch is only buffering the last 15 seconds and doesn't record anything, how is the summary feature invoked? To create the summary, it has to record what the watch hears. Presumably the recording is happening on the iPhone, right? Well, I think if it's, if there's nothing being to record, then there's nothing recording. Does that, you know what I mean? I think it's two separate, it's two separate things going on. Uh, Jason might know more than I do. Uh, hang on.

1:02:09I'm going to. So you, you can't access the, the, the, the recap thing. You can't access that audio or transcript or anything. Right. It does say on its own. Um, they actually had a, they, they published a white paper and we wrote about how this works. So I do have the answer for him. It's, it's, we don't have to speculate for, uh, for this. So a little, some of this is going to come down to your, um, defining what you mean by record.

1:02:39All right. There's, it, it does keep a buffer of everything. The microphone picks up that lasts for more than 15 seconds, I'm sure. But, so there's this audio buffer. You can't listen to it. Apple can't listen to it. There's no, there's no like playback of it or anything like that. So is that a recording? Is that an audio buffer? Like, where do you want to split hairs on what it, what that means that it's quote, not recording. Um, but you certainly cannot get at, nor can the operating system, the rest of the operating

1:03:16system, nor can an app. It all happens in the secure enclave. It's the same way. Nothing can get to your face ID info. Right. Um, so it records this buffer. When you double click the crown, it takes the last 15 seconds of that buffer and it makes an encrypted secure link to your iPhone where it sends it straight to the iPhone's secure enclave. And the iPhone does a straight up, uh, uh, like audio to text. Yeah. It's dictation, straight audio.

1:03:46It doesn't identify people or anything like that. It's just like, here's literally the words that I heard. And then it sends that text back to your watch and immediately deletes that buffer of audio that it has. So nothing can ever get at this recording. Apple can't get at it. And the buffer is immediately deleted, uh, from the secure enclave. Then that text doesn't stick around either unless you save it. And if you save it, that text is saved into the Siri app, which is end to end encrypted

1:04:19and stuff. Now he mentioned audio intelligence, which is the name for a set of features. There's like full, like Shazam running all the time and stuff. The other one, that one's called live rewind. There's another one called Siri recap, which listens to an entire conversation. And that one's a little more, it works the same way. There's the, there's an audio buffer of what the microphone picks up that is securely sent to the secure enclave of your iPhone, where it does a text to speech and all that.

1:04:50But there's more going on because it summarizes a whole conversation. And for that, what they do is they condense the text first. They get rid of all the ums and ahs and all the, and they get rid of anything that mentions specific places, specific names, credit card numbers, any identifiable information. So it like strips all that stuff out. And then that goes to the private cloud compute to make a summary.

1:05:19And then back. And then this is like everything on private cloud compute, private cloud compute deletes everything the second that you, it's done with it. So, yeah. So it's two separate things.

Audio Buffers and Live Rewind

1:05:34There are, there are two separate things. There's the one where you double click the crown and you see the last 15 seconds of what was said, not who said it, not whatever. It's just, here's 15 seconds of the last text of speech. Of every, like it never stops. Like that's always going. Like you can be walking down the street and it's going to record the person talking next to you for a second. Yeah. And then there's a, uh, the recap thing, which gives you summaries of entire conversations. That one's kind of wild because that one you can, you can say only run at work or never

1:06:07run at work or don't run at night or you can schedule when it runs, but that schedule can include be running all the time and you'll just get these. And so those summaries, they're like, they're compressed text. So it's not the full text does still doesn't identify people. It strips out identifiable information. And then that happens in the cloud, the summer that the, that compressed text gets sent to the cloud, that cloud, I should say condensed text gets sent to the cloud, the cloud makes the summary and then it deletes everything that it worked with.

1:06:40And you get the summary in your Siri app and the summaries that go in the Siri app automatically get deleted after a week unless you save them. So that's going to be wild when that comes out to find out like, well, how often am I going to, if I just leave this running all the time, how many summaries will I get a day? Like what's, what's it going to be doing? I'm very curious to see how that one works. And also like other local, local laws that they need to work around or because it's, there's no identifiable thing that they don't have to worry about.

1:07:10Like there's like third party consent and that stuff. Right. We're, we're, we're, we should talk about this at a different show. Roman, I took over our thousandth podcast. I'm sorry. The answer to his question though, is that there's an audio buffer running. All the time, just like there is to even recognize you saying, but that audio buffer is not a recording that anyone can access, including Apple. So you can never go back and listen to the recording of anything. And I think that's why they probably, the two, two party consent laws for recording and stuff like that's probably, they're probably in the clear because of that.

1:07:44Right. Cause you can't access the audio. You can't access the audio in any way. Right. So you could, you could always take notes and that's basically what it's doing. Exactly. Right. You don't need anyone's consent to like literally type everything they say. Right. And I know, like, I don't think this would be, you couldn't use it in a court of law to defend or, or not. It's, you know. Yeah. I don't think maybe you could, I, I doubt it would be considered very good evidence of anything. Yeah.

1:08:16Well, that does it for the 1,000th episode of the man. You get to do the outro now, Roman.

Outro and Sign Offs

1:08:23Have fun.

Outro and Sign Offs

1:08:24Thanks to Jason Cross. Thank you. Thanks to Michael Simon. Thank you, sir. And especially thanks to the audience. You know, a thousand episodes is no small feat and we couldn't do it without you guys listening, watching us. If you guys weren't listening or watching us, we wouldn't be doing the podcast anymore. But yeah, I want to thank you guys, the audience for subscribing and tuning in every week. We really appreciate it.

1:08:54We have a lot of fun doing the podcast and I hope it shows and I hope you guys have a lot of fun listening to it, to us. As people know, Mike usually does the outro and usually, yeah, we usually talk for so long that, you know, we run out of gas and then he, you know, doesn't actually do the outro as, uh, smoothly as he'd like to do, like to. So I took it upon myself to, uh, put together something that, uh, so Mike doesn't have to

1:09:28do the outro anymore. Uh, so let's take a look. And that wraps up our first new Macworld podcast. I realized I forgot to say the number. This was podcast number 946. I'm not going to attempt to do Roman's thing at the end. All right, Roman, you ready? I'm going to try to do this. Okay. Join us in the next episode of the Macworld podcast as we talk about everything and mess it up. Um, join us in the next episode of the Macworld podcast as we talk about everything. Roman, how come I always want to say everything to end the show?

1:10:03So I, I, I, I stole, I stole Roman's, Roman's little sign off here and I screwed up every single week and it's, it's so simple. Thanks to Roman. You know, it's funny in this intro. So I copied Roman's old outro and it literally says my name in it. I still haven't changed it. So I have to remember to not thank myself. And now I just screwed up. Roman to edit it. Um, hold on. I lost my place. You know, I still have my name in this Roman.

1:10:34This, this is the worst outro I've ever done. That's that does it for this episode of the Macworld podcast episode number 932. No, it's not. I wrote what I do. Well, you know what? Just that's it. We're done.

1:10:51Oh, that's me. I try. I swear to God. Thank you, David. I appreciate it. Despite the fact that I called you Jason. This whole thing is your fault. I swear to you. God, how many times am I going to get this crap wrong? I'm going to skip all this because I'm so tired. I'm not, I'm not doing the outro. So thank you. You know what? Forget it. It's too long. Hey, that was like naturally right. Like I didn't struggle. Like I just went right to it. That's good. That's good.

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