S04E01 - Adam Stokes // The Egyptian Origins of America's Pyramids

Introduction to Palmetto State Armory

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1:09Plan滑ING 組み Let's get started. Let's get started. Start a trip away. 這些

1:26Ramify Brits The

Introduction to Adam Stokes

1:31a happy monday to you this is andrew with lost origins and uh we're stoked to present a very special unexpected episode of lost origins today i know that the last episode that dropped was the end of season three and in that episode ck and i outlined how we are going to be taking just a quick break from production so we can you know ideate and scheme on ways to elevate the show

2:04ways that we want to amplify it take it to the next level the format all the things but you know

Quarantine and Staying Home

2:10today marks day 26 of quarantine for my family and myself and i got to thinking this is probably a good opportunity to link up with some authors researchers investigators that you guys love you guys want to hear from and if this is our way of encouraging you and incentivizing you to stay put stay at home that's what we're all about right so this week's episode of lost origins is brought to you by our very good friends over at inner traditions and baron company if you jump onto their website

2:41inner traditions.com you can check out just a massive library of books and resources and all the rabbit holes and right now could not be a better time for you to jump onto that site and scoop up a book or to um you know staying home is important but maintaining sanity is very very important in this time and so you you grab one of these books and you are going to be set for a hot minute you're going to be expanding that knowledge base and just diving into mystery after mystery so inner traditions.com we

3:12can't say enough good things about our homies over there jump on the website check it out and make sure you have resources to get the best experience out of quarantine possible all right so today's episode

Adam Stokes Interview

3:23is one that i'm very excited for it is just me flying solo today ck and i are still working on the logistics as to how we're going to coordinate him and i co-hosting the show but i was fortunate enough to connect with our good friend adam stokes who i know last season so many of you out there gave us feedback and shot us messages on social media and via email just about how much you appreciated him coming onto the show the insight that he brought to the table his level of expertise i mean this guy is a hitter through and through he knows his stuff and today we're going to be

3:58talking about some pretty gnarly concepts we're going to be talking about biblical temples that are located in north america we're going to be talking about the egyptian connection to north america um and we're really just going to focus on our own backyard today um there's a ton of archaeological and megalithic sites throughout north america and more often than not those sites uh they don't get as much limelight as the ones that you know we commonly think of when we think of ancient megalithic structures such as gobekli tepe giza uh peru bolivia all the all the most common places that are

4:33associated with megalithic construction so i'm really really pumped to pick his brain and so

Mound Builders and Egyptian Origin

4:41without further ado let's just get him on the horn all right adam stokes my friend welcome back to lost origins how the hell are you doing in this crazy time that we're currently living within well it's a pleasure to be back you thank you for thank you for having me i'm just uh here at home with uh my wife and two kids while everybody is out of work

5:14um not like in the fired sense we're just working from home yeah so i'm uh teaching both of my classes my high school class and my college class online and my wife's firm is closed so she's doing all her work from home um and i'm homeschooling my six-year-old uh as he goes through first grade his first grade teacher who lives down the street will drop off a package to him every week of homework he has to do but he's you know he's doing a really good job especially for a six-year-old who's trying to figure out you know what the heck is going on why can't i see all my friends

5:45and my students um are doing a really good job just adjusting uh they've uh yeah they've been very uh kind of supportive and very uh kind of um what's the word i'm looking for um engaged in the material in spite of everything that's been going on and very understanding that's amazing it's really really good to hear and i'm glad you and the family are doing well and it sounds like you guys have a pretty awesome rhythm going you know at least that's what i see on social media uh we've have you know we have four kids in the house and so it has definitely taken us a hot minute

6:15to uh get used to the working from home but then also uh you know homeschooling for humans and also trying to maintain sanity and so i have found that uh once again in my life i returned to music as my way of finding you know solace and peace i've been i've been writing a record for about six months now and uh this last this last 24 days in quarantine it has it has allowed me some time to really take my production chops to the next level and so i'm really really enjoying that as well so they're they're it's pretty cool yeah yeah yeah so i i can't say i've been doing uh anything that creative

6:50i've just been uh binge watching uh netflix and star wars and battle star galactica when i can there is nothing wrong with battle star galactica or star wars my friend that is that is a solid use of the time for sure oh man all right well uh listen i thought this would be a fun uh conversation good opportunity for you and i to link up you have recently written two articles for the lost origins website um you know we had a conversation in season three that was just amazing and you know we we made the shot and we said we want to have another conversation with you so here we are i thought it

7:23would be cool for us to kind of talk through the articles that you wrote for the website i know that

Article Discussion

7:28a lot of our listeners have checked those out they've spent time digging through them and those two articles uh either as a refresher or for the uninitiated we have the mound builders and the egyptian origin of america's pyramids and we also have the most recent which came out last week biblical temples in north america both of these are incredible incredible reads um they're just well researched well put together i love the way you walk i love the way that you write um so i thought like we could start with the former article right you open the mound builders and the egyptian

8:00origin of americans pyramids in in such a powerful way man and you you use this line that just hooks you from the jump and it's unbeknownst to many north america is home to various ancient architectural wonders rivaling those found elsewhere in the world whether these be the pyramids of egypt or the great wall of china like hot damn that is one hell of a sentence mic drop material all day long so i thought maybe set the stage and walk us through uh some of these sites the the that you're speaking to in

8:31this article my pleasure my pleasure you know they always say drew that you know the first sentence of any article that you write is the one that's going to hook people and get them to read uh the rest of it no matter how long it is i try to make that as sexy as possible at palmetto state armory we offer the largest selection of guns and ammunition at unbeatable prices our knowledgeable and friendly staff are here to provide personalized assistance ensuring you find exactly what you need if you enjoy outdoor activities like hunting camping or hiking our clothing and outdoor gear collection has got you

9:03covered we also feature an exceptional indoor range facility where you can experience the thrill of shooting in a safe and controlled environment visit us today at palmettostatearmory.com or your local retail store palmetto state armory american made for life forget whatever plans you have this weekend because you're staying at home and playing on spin quest and there's never been a better time to sign up than right now new users get 30 coin packs for just 10 all the table games you love with hundreds of slot games and real cash prizes that's at spinquest.com

9:38s-p-i-n-q-u-e-s-t dot com spinquest is a free-to-play social casino void where prohibited visit spinquest.com for more details but yeah i i think when a lot of people think of sites in america they always turn to south america which has you know amazing sites itself the mayan pyramids mayan temples but what goes completely overlooked a lot of times is uh the uh rich culture and the rich history of pre-columbian

10:13north america uh or the modern uh united states and there is so much rich history here there's so many uh different sites here and architectural wonders that um are so often um just have haven't been looked at haven't been uh really the public hasn't been exposed to these sites um all that much um i can give you a uh kind of a rundown a couple of my favorites yeah let's talk about this all day i'm gonna condense it uh so um i think for me first and foremost are the new work uh earthworks which i talked about last

10:48time i was on this show yeah um they date between 100 um to 500 ce and they actually consist of several different mounds of earthworks the great circle earthwork the octagon earthwork and the right earthwork um and just as i mentioned uh last time i was on the show just a treasure trove of uh native american culture um and uh traditions there for for those interested we found a lot of pottery sherds we found a lot of copper um copper works um and uh semitic uh inscriptions so that's probably uh my favorite um of course

11:26there's also poverty point uh which is another mound um in uh west carroll parish illinois it's actually not just one mound it's multiple mounds um they label them a b c d e f and those are super old drew those go back to uh 1700 to 1000 bce um so much older than the new work earthworks um you have the serpent mound in adams county ohio um which is really fascinating uh that's uh

11:56thirteen hundred and seventy six feet long um and built uh likely around 320 uh bce so that that's really old um as well um i guess the last mound i'll mention and there's some other uh architectural sites that um aren't aren't mounds at all but are actually uh pretty cool um pretty awesome but the cahokia mounds in illinois um monks uh monks mound is there uh which is pretty well known um all things

12:27considered um it's a famous uh very well known uh copper works uh facility it's the largest pre-columbian uh earthwork but it dates late it dates to um around a thousand or eleven hundred c e though i have some more stuff to say about that later because it may not be as late as people traditionally ascribe it um but uh but very fascinating especially in its connection uh with uh the giza pyramid which i'll talk about uh which i would love to talk about uh later on and then um to wrap it up just a few that

12:59i think are just really cool unbound related uh you have mystery hill which is basically america's stone hedge in new hampshire um we don't know who built those we don't actually know the date for for that site uh same with casa grande the casa grande ruins in arizona we don't know who built those uh we don't know the date of those sites but basically just a large stone structure now one of my favorites outside of the mounds just to kind of conclude here is uh cliff palace in mesaverta national park in colorado these are things that are built into this is a whole freaking city built

13:33into stone um it's fairly recent again that's kind of questionable they're saying about 800 years but we know it was occupied 800 years ago but when it was actually built uh we're not sure but it's right into it's built right into uh the mountain itself um really crazy if you ever get to look it up if you ever google it um look at the pictures uh pretty pretty amazing wonders so all of these things are are things that you know not a lot of people know about the public doesn't know about but um amazing architectural features just as amazing as what you get in south america

14:06and what you get in the old world um in egypt and in stonehenge and in other places yeah it's so just out of curiosity is that last one that you mentioned in colorado is that the one that's near garden of the gods kind of kind of close to colorado springs there i think so yeah yeah and i believe that like so i've been there i lived in in denver for several years and uh used to go to garden of the gods quite frequently and just happened to cruise over there and check it out one day and i want to say that like all of the uh materials and signs and whatnot that that you can read as you're working your way through the site they point to the the pueblos as yeah that's that's the

14:41to your point who inhabited it 800 years ago but um it there's definitely some some mystery and controversy wrapped around that site too yeah yeah there's a lot of i mean and uh dr great littles talked about this as well with his denis of an origins book um there is uh some leeway because we don't know if the people inhabiting the sites are the same people who built the sites or maybe built over an earlier site um this is especially true with uh the cahokia mound and monk's mound uh which

15:12seems to date pretty late like i said that's well into the common era 1100 ce um but there's some actual funky stuff happening uh with that as well it's just mind bending because when you when you think about ancient megalithic sites right at least at least for me when i think about those when i contemplate them my my mind immediately goes to um you know like the showboaty sites if you will where you've got giza you've got gobekli tepe you've got literally everything in peru and bolivia um you know mayan cultures and in mexico and whatnot it's just you i feel like we we take for granted what's in

15:45our own backyard um and and it's just it's pretty crazy to think about all of the things that that exist here in north america that um for the lack of a better term are neglected uh not not in terms of like upkeep or maintenance or exploration or you know investigation but like which is not a thing that we we often think about as it being grand doys as you know uh giza yeah i think we're very much into that mindset i know you guys have raised this the last time we talked that pre-columbus you

16:16know uh basically america and especially north america really didn't have uh any type of history and that's that's just not true and so i think you know i think it's kind of the tradition that we've inherited in our history books and our textbooks and in a lot of cases whether deliberately or not um a lot of these uh really amazing architectural sites were were destroyed um some just uh by you know they wanted to build up a shopping center or something they were they were destroyed and others more deliberately but we don't uh even the sites we have sadly enough as glorious as they are

16:52we don't have them in their in their full glory right in a lot of cases um especially with the new earthworks a lot of those uh they speculate that there were a lot there were several other more mounds uh that were likely uh destroyed so um so that's kind of sad there well you know you you'd mentioned like we don't have them in their their glory you know right like they're not there's a lot of stuff that has been destroyed um i'm also wondering if we have like a complete understanding whether we're talking about the mounds uh in michigan or ohio or illinois west virginia mississippi

17:24i mean in in your article the mound builders and the egyptian origin of america's pyramids you you cover a lot of terrain there you're focusing specifically on these different mounds at palmetto state armory we offer the largest selection of guns and ammunition at unbeatable prices our knowledgeable and friendly staff are here to provide personalized assistance ensuring you find exactly what you need if you enjoy outdoor activities like hunting camping or hiking our clothing and outdoor gear collection has got you covered we also feature an exceptional indoor range facility where you can experience the thrill of shooting in a safe and controlled

17:56environment visit us today at palmettostatearmory.com or your local retail store palmetto state armory american made for life forget whatever plans you have this weekend because you're staying at home and playing on spin quest and there's never been a better time to sign up than right now new users get 30 coin packs for just 10 all the table games you love with hundreds of slot games and real cash prizes that's at spin quest.com s-p-i-n-q-u-e-s-t.com spin quest is a free-to-play social casino void where

18:31prohibited visit spin quest.com for more details structures which are very pyramidal uh in shape but most of them have like almost a plateau or a flat uh surface so my question is is is that intact that being the history do we know uh who built these things and and like when do we do we have any under ideas to to like an epoch behind these things that's that's a great question and the

Diffusionism and Cultural Exchange

19:01very simple answer to that is uh yes and no leaning more towards the no so we label um if you look at the academic literature um even now even in the 21st century uh they'll say you know we cannot specifically uh label uh the community that built uh these mounds they just call them generically uh the mound building cultures i think the great example of this is uh with um the mississippi culture that uh built the mounds in uh in the american south um they just call them mississippi culture and they're

19:36substrands of that mississippi culture now uh for the earthworks and for the mounds that are in a kind of the midwest region um scholars uh most archaeologists uh would say that they were built by two groups the adena and the hope well but get this true this is not their actual names those names are given to those people uh from the dudes who basically uh excavated or found uh stuff in those regions so i think one dude was named hope well the other one was named adena or something like

20:07that yeah so we actually don't know um just based on the archaeological record we don't uh actually know the uh names of the groups that uh constructed these mounds but i do think and this is where um i think you have to think outside the box and kind of move away from uh the conclusions that mainstream academia has has uh drawn and i think this is where you know independent research independent study is so important i think there are other clues within the culture that give us a clear

20:41identification as to who these people are so um in short in short uh i think that mainstream academia would say no we don't really know we can't really give a name to uh the particular culture who built these mounds uh but i think uh my own opinion is that if you look at uh some of the traditions and the artifacts found in these regions um i think you can trace them to a particular uh culture which is why i talk about the egypto uh israelites in my writings yeah yeah yeah so two

21:14questions for you first um at what age or if ever did you stop using the the the mental moniker the m-i-s-s-i-s-s-i-p-p-i uh the little thing from a kid when anytime you had to spell mississippi um that you know that the important questions adam those always come out first i still use that yeah yeah i was saying i was writing down my notes i still had to say it in my head so never get told so then my second question though uh this is a real uh grown-up question now um i'm almost wondering

21:45if you know when we're talking about these sites especially down in mississippi you know scott walter uh who's been on the show before he has done some work investigating the possibility that uh the mayan people made their way up into parts of south uh southern united states uh like into georgia for example and he's been um comparing the analysis of uh i believe it was it was um paint fragments and whatnot uh to to like confirm whether or not that they had migrated up into

22:15um the georgia area long long long ago so i'm almost wondering like you know that culture was very much steeped in megalithic architecture megalithic construction have you spent much time noodling on whether or not like we're we're potentially looking at remnants of mayan presence in america i mean if if we don't know the name of the cultures who built these things we don't know whether or not uh they occupied them or built them or built on top of previously built structures like have you spent much time contemplating that adam uh that's a really uh that's a really good question

22:50um i love scott walter's work um i've been watching uh his american on earth since uh god knows how how long yes i'm glad he came back on the travel channel um just amazing amazing scholar amazing researcher um that's a really good question i mean i think um and i am guilty of this tendency so much true we draw a clear distinction between north and south america you know go over the mexican border that's a south america you can't you and there's no um there's no interaction between the two but that that border is really in our mind that border has never really existed yeah um and i

23:23think that um it's perfectly plausible that uh there was uh mine influence into north america and the same vice versa that uh whoever these now billion people were uh went into the maya culture and possibly influenced them um that's something i need to uh research uh more um i'd be very interested in kind of uh seeing you know what what comes of that i can tell you that the most recent issue of ancient american magazine um which is a magazine i sometimes contribute to uh i love its work um they

23:59actually talked about the possibility of a mayan temple pyramid uh in uh north america so uh not just walter's work but several other scholars have uh been arguing for my influence i'm in north america as well that's something that i would definitely like to look into more and see is there a maya uh you know egyptian uh type uh hope well adina type of a connection on it and you know i think this goes to a larger issue of you know diffusionism cultural diffusionism um how are these uh cultures uh

24:34what or i should say let me reframe that why are these cultures doing things the way they're doing did you just wake up and say you know i'm going to build a pyramid um probably not i mean we see similarities amongst all these cultures and i think you know that there is uh exchange and interchange amongst all these cultures yeah it's really really crazy like the rabbit holes that open up in the mind when you when you start to look at all of the possibilities um and and you you were like you said it so well adam like that border exists in our mind because some dude drew it on a map

25:08right it's it's not a thing it's not a real thing outside of like what we've allowed it to become and so when you remove that from the equation the possibilities and rabbit holes just man they become endless and so i'd like to jump down a rabbit hole with you right now man so in that article that you wrote for the website you present some pretty gnarly parallels uh specifically to like the dimensions of the ohio mounds and the giza pyramids and holy shit if anybody out there has

25:40not looked at that uh i i am please pause this and go read that article real quick and then when you're done scooping uh the remnants of your brain off the floor come back and then jump back in to get uh get get adam's take on that firsthand so adam hit us with that walk us through those correlations those connections and then just hit us with like what do you think we're looking at here i know we've already mentioned diffusionism but but i just from the horse's mouth what do you think we're seeing here well this this blew my mind um i remember uh the first time i heard about the parallels between

26:15the north american mounds and the giza pyramid was from frank joseph and he's written several books unearthed in ancient america uh ancient technology of uh the america of the north americans um he's written several books on this and when he mentioned it i think he mentioned it also on your show i was like um dude even though i have like the highest respect and highest regard for frank joseph i was like is this you know could this possibly be true and i started doing some research on my own and uh shocker uh not really shocking frank joseph was absolutely right so for monk's mound the dimensions

26:52of it basically um the base of the mound is the same exact significant dimensions as the giza pyramid 30 13.1 acres or 5.3 uh hectares um this is the type of stuff that someone like myself who is very much um very much advocates diffusion model this seems to be a clear cut connection between uh the culture

27:22of ancient the the architects of ancient egypt and the architects of north america now um before i go on i want to uh kind of address the criticism that someone will immediately raise um if you know if uh listeners are paying attention to beginning of the show i know that monk's mound um is usually dated between 1000 and 1100 ce so it's kind of late um but there's a couple things going on here that have to be taken into consideration one um and your mainstream uh academic your mainstream

27:57archaeologist is going to acknowledge this as well um that is that date is taken from the peak of whatever culture was there so it's possible that those mounds uh date to earlier it's just that those mounds were used uh that or excuse me that site at its peak was used um around 1100 uh ce um but there is a lot of evidence um that has been uh that uh independent researchers have raised that this site

28:30was um occupied by earlier building structures so the same uh so you have the same dimensions but there was an older site there on those dimensions that dates to much earlier than the common era it seems to have been used uh much later uh by uh native uh by other native american uh groups um so um i mentioned before dr uh george uh dr greg little he notes this phenomenon throughout north america how you have a

29:02really freaking old ancient site that uh the original inhabitants like die out they go extinct and then later inhabitants come and say oh this is really you know amazing this must be some type of sacred site and uh they house themselves there so um the monk mound even if it dates to the common era we're possibly looking at a place whose dimensions parallel with the dimensions of the giza pyramid uh were was possibly uh built uh was possibly uh built and used much much earlier we see this actually

29:36all the time in um western history with um with christian churches so uh in england in ireland um in germany there'll be these sacred sites that the druids and that the pre-christian europeans had um and christians would be like uh this is a source of great power so they'll build their churches on these earlier sites does that mean that um the site only dates to when that church was built no the site has a longer a much longer history uh than that but it was used by later um later inhabitants

30:11because they sensed that there was some type of uh power or sacredness uh there um but for me um yeah for me uh monk's mound is one of the clearest examples along with the new earth earthworks of cultural uh diffusionism i don't think it gets uh it gets better than that that's kind of like the smoking gun at this point right i think so i think so yeah damn and so one thing that i can't help but like and i'm not trying to take us back to um you know central america but i'm gonna sorry um you know

30:42so like we we have the the pyramidal like the the base perimeter you know the the measurements of the dimensions there uh between ohio and giza just being so in line with each other and that's bonkers and yes that that points to diffusionism um have you had any conversations or spent time researching the teotihuacan teotihuacan connection as well right so we have that pyramid being eerily similar to giza as well and so like when when i hear the the ohio mounds being reminiscent of giza in my mind i'm

31:17connecting all three of those as more of a um like okay now we have like a pattern here we have potentially a like global um initiative or this could be um like refugees almost of some kind of ancient lost civilization that was displaced coming out of that um you know episode of human human history and using the knowledge that they already had pre-cataclysm to reboot and rebuild but the

31:49location was dependent upon where they were displaced to where they ended up yeah yeah yeah what do you like what what are your thoughts on that i think that's a really good point i know frank joseph he argues for kind of an atlantean uh source uh basically it's lost civilization that uh through uh a massive deluge or catastrophe um had uh basically the survivors of that retained uh the architectural knowledge of this lost civilization and i do think you know that is that is a possibility

32:22um i also and this is something um that i think we talked about a little bit last time i was on the show um i think you have different migrations at different times so it's possible that um the south american structures they might have been influenced by an egyptian uh type of culture uh themselves and i think that you know beyond the pyramids themselves in south america there are a lot of other connections in uh just the cultural traditions and the artifacts and stuff that have been found there uh that

32:56kind of point uh to a uh to a near eastern um connection and i know that um there are there are some scouts particularly uh within uh the field of of kind of mormonism um i can talk more about that later who would uh argue for kind of a direct uh dependence on egypt uh excuse me a direct uh dependence on egypt uh with with the mayan tradition hmm so just like you open your article with the mic drop

33:28and the sexiest shit ever you're gonna you're gonna do that to us right now aren't you i'm just just gonna tease it and i think it's a good time though too like we do have to take just a quick break but when we come back let's let's jump back in go full rip and uh keep keep exploring this rabbit hole some more from adam stokes after the break

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Diffusionism and Book of Mormon Connections

35:05all right friends welcome back to this week's episode of lost origins a very special and unexpected episode that we wanted to drop to help with staying inside so this episode is brought to you by washing your hands

35:36um this week we are connecting with our friend and homie adam stokes before the break we were digging into one of his articles that he had written for the lost origins website the mound builders and the egyptian origin of america's pyramids man what one hell of a ride and uh we were talking about the ohio mounds uh the connections to giza and uh before the break adam he had started to tease a little bit about diffusionism but we had also started kind of poking at the bear that is the book of mormon

36:07in true choose your own adventure fashion i'm gonna let you just steer us down whichever path you'd like to take us right now so pick your poison and let's do the thing i'll start with diffusionism because i think that will lead into uh discussions of the the book of mormon boom um so uh in mainstream academic circles uh the the common model is the migrationist model especially in looking at the approach i'm looking at uh the uh history of ancient america so uh you have

36:43uh the clovis model uh people coming through the bearing strait uh and settling uh into america um and i don't want to dismiss that completely but i think you have uh going on also uh migrations of uh other groups uh into the region from various from various places uh in the world not just the bearing strait and over uh various times and bringing their culture and their religion um into play in north america and so uh what um scholars like myself argue for is kind of the

37:21diffusionist model which is where you have a uh transaction of cultural traditions interaction of cultural traditions uh between uh groups separated uh by long distances um and uh not just with north america but in general mainstream archaeology tends to shy away from that they want to view everything is migrationist but there are times when this can't be disputed so for example uh with the vikings you know the vikings came to north america they built sites here uh that can't be disputed so

37:52there are times when mainstream archaeology and mainstream academia has to admit uh evidence for uh diaphesianism but it usually doesn't like to when they need to when uh mainstream uh scholars talk about diaphesianism they'll usually relegate it uh to the back of their book to the appendix of their book um i think one of my favorite books i love this book ancient um native americans um it uh is written by a mainstream scholar and he has a whole basically a fascinating chapter on diaphesianism from egypt and

38:25from the phoenicians but he includes it in the appendix of his book so you will even if you're like um if you're reading it and you don't read appendixes uh you're not even going to notice that um so and this is kind of i mentioned this because this is kind of the general attitude that mainstream academia has uh towards uh diffusionism but i think that in north america um you have uh clear-cut examples of cultural influence from the old world onto the new i've always struggled with just like the the

38:55opposition to diffusionism in general i mean there there's so many reasons why it makes sense whether you're talking you know tor higher doll and the contiki or you're looking at yeah um different you know petroglyph sites uh in california that like guys like carl lorberger are pointing to i mean it's it's everywhere it's all over um and it's not just megalithic sites or you know petroglyph sites or some dude that built the raft either i mean if you look at um like agriculture for example

39:25um and and the the specificity is escaping me so i apologize but i want to say that i read an article uh that that you know somebody had done the research looking at a very specific uh seed that is very common and indigenous to um western south america and that being found um you know in the middle of the ocean well you know over by where the rapa nui people are with the moai um it's it's just it's it's mind-bending right and that kind of stuff is not an accident i mean yeah yeah that's that you

39:59you mentioned um i'm glad you mentioned the um agricultural evidence uh john sorenson has a whole list um he's worked closely with uh biologists a whole list of plants and uh vegetables that are not indigenous north america and could only have been brought over here by different groups over long periods of uh time charles man kind of does the same thing with his 1491 book um talking about uh just uh the the evidence for uh cultural diffusionism cultural interaction in the form of

40:35uh the agricultural excuse me the agriculture that we find in north america right right so you know when we're looking at diffusionism we're making these connections here i just can't help but wonder like are any of these mounds that that you're referencing in this second article right biblical temples in north america are any of these is there any overlap between these mounds and the mounds that you describe in your first article the mound builders and egyptian origin of america's pyramids and if so like what does your mind do with that possibility

41:07like what do you think the the larger scale implications could be if if that is you know the case yeah i think um i think there's definitely uh definitely overlap um i think uh so the book that i referenced in biblical temples uh the mound builders um the scholar there schnell is actually uh schnell is actually looking at the new work earthworks um in ohio uh which is one of the uh mounds that i mentioned uh in the previous article the mound builders and the egyptian origins

41:40of america's pyramids um and not only uh does the uh temple there that schnell describes mirror kind of the dimensions and the structure that we get uh in the near ancient near east uh with the shiloh temple the shiloh tradition that's mentioned in first samuel uh with samuel sleeping in the chamber um you have the same exact thing uh with the hope well temple there um but uh we found we found new work of various cultural artifacts various inscriptions uh that are semitic which is

42:15suggesting uh direct uh cultural influence from the near east as well um so and which is which is fascinating uh fascinating yeah for sure for sure it's it's yeah the the the again like i said earlier the rabbit holes are abundant when we're looking at these these connections and these possibilities here so let's do this hit me with this the the book of mormon connections like how does the book of mormon tie into this entire mystery i feel like that's that is like you know one massive piece that

42:50on the surface doesn't apparent like doesn't seem like it fits into this puzzle at least for me so like walk me through that help me understand like how how all of that ties into what we're looking at here yeah yes so um the book of mormon claims to be an ancient record of uh basically north america now when you hear the book of mormon you think a religious text which it certainly is uh but the person who claimed to translate it basically the founder of mormonism joseph smith he understood it first and foremost as a historical um account um and so um i preface this i i mentioned this

43:27uh because it's easy to when you hear the book of mormon get off track and just say oh this is you know a religious this is a religious text but it's also meant to be a historical uh documentation of the history of the ancient inhabitants of north america okay um and when you um and when it was originally published um it was published uh kind of if you ever can get a facsimile of the 1830 edition of the book of mormon um they sell them for like 25 or 29 dollars um on uh on amazon um i have one

44:01uh here on my bookshelf um but it looks uh basically like uh basically your um your standard uh 19th century uh uh history book so it's basically a history book or you know a historical novel um it doesn't have verses or anything like that so um this uh scholars point to this and say you know joseph smith really thought of this as a history book now the circumstances around it um are controversial or debatable um but if it is if it's claiming to be um if we take the claim that it

44:36that it's a history book and that tells uh the history of ancient inhabitants um then it gives us uh some insight as to who the identity of the mound builders might be and i mentioned earlier that main chief scholars still um are reluctant to give a specific identification uh to to the mound builders so we give them names hope well adena mississippi culture mississippian culture um but we don't actually connect them with a specific uh group um but in the book of mormon uh architectural

45:11structures very similar to the mounds um at palmetto state armory we offer the largest selection of guns and ammunition at unbeatable prices our knowledgeable and friendly staff are here to provide personalized assistance ensuring you find exactly what you need if you enjoy outdoor activities like hunting camping or hiking our clothing and outdoor gear collection has got you covered we also feature an exceptional indoor range facility where you can experience the thrill of shooting in a safe and controlled environment visit us today at palmettostatearmory.com or your local retail store palmetto state armory american made for life

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46:15are mentioned um and described but they're attributed specifically to uh near eastern refugees who came over after the destruction of jerusalem or slightly before excuse me slightly before destruction of jerusalem in 586 bce uh to uh north america um so i think um if uh that claim that it's an ancient document it claims to be translated uh from metal plates and we do know not trying to be a religious

46:47apologist here but we do know that um both in north and south america metallic plates silver plates uh were used uh to record um to record things we even have this in uh the near east with the dead sea scroll so you have the copper scroll of isaiah uh which was used uh to write uh the book of isaiah uh for the dead sea community so we do have evidence of this and the book of mormon claims to be from similar uh metallic uh plates as an ancient record and if that's the case and if that is the case

47:18big if there i understand that but if that is the case i think it goes a long way towards uh helping us identify who these actual mound builders were and i think that when you take uh what it says in relation to the archaeological evidence the submitted conscriptions that we've found uh the dimensions of the mounds the structure of the mounds uh which parallel egyptian and israelite structures then i think that this supports a diffusionist view of uh near eastern as i like to

47:49call them again egyptian israelites uh migrating maybe several migrations over a long course of time maybe only a couple migrations over a short period of time but definitely migrating to the new world uh to uh north america and settling there so what kind of work is currently being done to just like further the exploration of the connection here and the possibilities that you just shared with us like is is that an ongoing effort that you're aware of or or participating in um yes not um so a lot

48:21of the work that i do is uh basically on my own as an independent scholar but there are uh mormons in the field um so the joseph smith foundation um groups like that uh which try to uh find uh these uh connections between uh basically the old world and uh the news so there was recently it's on amazon prime video um if you have the chance to watch it since we have plenty of hours of time that's all i got right now man yes but actually tracing uh kind of uh taking the viking migration uh to the united

48:59states and um showing kind of israelite connections uh with uh the vikings so you have kind of have a double dose of diffusionism as i like to call it uh there and then um as i mentioned before john sorenson's work really looking at kind of the agricultural evidence uh for diffusionism a lot of mormon scholars will place the book of mormon actually in a south american setting um i'm one of uh i'm one of a group known as kind of the um the great lakes uh people who place it in the north

49:34american setting so there's a lot of research being done um on kind of the south american connections to the old world uh to uh to the near um to the near east and so uh mormons will point to for example kukul khan uh the the great uh bearded white god the great serpent as being uh there are a lot of parallels actually some very interesting parallels between how that god is described and uh how uh jesus is described in the new testament um so some some very interesting stuff uh going on

50:10there yeah there's definitely some really cool connections there and i've spent a ton of time just pouring over that and uh you know trying to make sense of the the striking similarities that that you find between the two so let's let's do this like because i we're almost at our time and i i want to respect yours i know that you've got a little one sleeping at home and and again i appreciate the hell out of you making time for this conversation today but like so for for our listeners out there who you know they just got hit with all this information and uh it was rapid fire and it was a

50:41lot and thank you um do you have any resources or um like directions that you can point them in to allow them to continue to to dig in and and and explore all these different similarities and connections that we're seeing in north america like what's the best resource for people out there to to continue this this quest yeah yeah i well first of all i want to give a shout out to ancient american magazine and way may i think um just for the lay person for the common reader

51:13uh you'll find the best information about ancient north america and uh evidence for that magazine um that magazine um was edited by uh frank joseph who's written uh several amazing books on ancient america um just google him his books will come up and um you'll find those uh those are those are great resources uh for people um amazon prime yes i keep pushing uh amazon prime because

51:44i've been watching a lot of them lately in the quarantine um but they have uh several uh documentaries um one entitled the mound builders as well as uh the quest for the new fights that i mentioned earlier um that uh talk about diffusionism uh the latter video is kind of for a mormon context but if you want um one that just gives a general a really good detailed overview um from kind of a uh purely uh academic standpoint uh the mound builders uh would be uh would be your documentary um i also

52:16have a couple articles out um drew mentioned them on uh lost origins i also have a book out that recently was published from egypt to ohio which looks at this topic uh directly so i think any of those places especially ancient american magazine would be a great starting point uh for you man that's amazing well listen adam it is always such a pleasure talking to you we we appreciate the hell out of you here at lost origins um i'm we i'm really really grateful for you know for the hour that

52:47we were able to spend together today um it's good to to talk shop and and you know just talk about some stuff that you know is not currently pervasive on the news or social media and so i my hope is that you know our listeners out there you know we're able to kind of unplug for an hour and uh just enjoy using the noodle for something else you know yes yes we all need to do that yeah agreed agreed well listen my friend um stay safe out there wash those hands you know look at the silver moment the silver lining moments that life is providing us right you know with right now with with being

53:20able to to be home with the kids if if that's your situation um we hope that you guys uh make the best use of the time and uh stay healthy my friend thanks true same to you stay safe man i appreciate that bye now man i cannot say enough it's one of nicest on the face of the so knowledgeable about all of the different subjects and and topics that that exploring that he can explain conversations

53:52with him are oh such a good time so i don't know what to expect i don't know whether or not we're going to be dropping an episode next week i can tell you that we're going to do everything that we can to keep content flowing uh like i said at the beginning of the episode um we we have some stuff to talk about as it relates to you know how could we approach production uh during the here and now um but we are not ready to babe ruth the shot on the schedule for for releases but what i will say is jump onto social

54:23media jump onto the website link up with us somehow and just help us build a list of the different guests that you guys would like to see we will do what we can to make it happen we want to make sure that you guys have you know resources and content and episodes of the show to consume while we are you know going through the social distancing and the stay at home uh approach to life that that is the new norm so just make sure that you guys are sharing with us who you would like to have come on the show because we want to make sure that we're building content and episodes that you guys are going to enjoy the most right so make sure that you guys smash that subscribe button link up with us on

54:58social media let us know what you're reading let us know what you guys are exploring let us know how you're using the time uh make sure you wash your hands and don't touch your face because that's important and just stay safe out there right the world is a crazy place right now um it's it's pretty insane what's happening um but at the end of the day if we all do our part we will definitely be able to overcome this so until next time i'm andrew and i challenge you to question

55:51you

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