Everyday Neuro 022: Empowering Our Future Change Makers - The Benefits of Transcendent Thinking on Identity Development in Adolescence

Introduction to Podcast

0:00Hello and welcome to the Everyday Neuro podcast series. I'm your host Dr Janine Cooper and I'm aiming to provide you with the knowledge and inspiration to understand the fascinating world of the human brain. So thanks again for joining me. Now as you may or may not know I've actually been working over the last couple of years in social research and have been lucky

0:34enough to collaborate on projects that require insights and views from the community. Now these projects span health, multiculturalism, disability and inclusion, climate change and future planning and so really issues that matter to all of us. Now many public facing organisations including local government actually really want to hear what the community have to say about these key social and environmental issues and they develop opportunities to reach out via consultations.

1:08What's actually captured my attention though in recent times is that collecting the thoughts and ideas from younger people is actually considered difficult to do and this group of society are often labeled as hard to reach.

1:28Hey it's Paige DeSorbo from Giggly Squad. Okay wait have you ever had one of those moments where you're like I should be doing something fun tonight and then you just don't because you don't have what you need because same. But recently I've been trying to be more of a yes person and honestly Amazon Prime has been enabling that energy. Like the other night I randomly decided I was going to host a last minute girls night. No planning, no groceries, nothing. And instead of spiraling I just ordered everything I needed and got it that day. Snacks, drinks, even like random hosting things I absolutely

1:59didn't need but emotionally I did. And suddenly it went from maybe next time to yes tonight. That's what I love. Prime's same day delivery makes it so you can say yes before the moment slips away. Because let's be real, the only thing worse than a bad plan is a plan you never make happen. Same day delivery, it's on Prime. Available in select areas, terms apply. So if you're trying to be more spontaneous or just less chaotic go to amazon.com slash prime to find millions of items delivered fast. Hello it's Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu Podcast. And James Acaster here also from the

2:32Off Menu Podcast. Imagine a backyard tradition. Okay. A sun-drenched afternoon, a massive vat of bubbling oil and a man named Big Dave wearing goggles. It's a lot of effort for a bird. Well what if I told you? The boar's head has brought that exact backyard tradition right to the deli counter. Well I'd say James you finally lost it. Boar's head brings to the deli the taste of deep fried turkey. It's all the seasoning and that golden fried glory of the fryer's turkey breast but

3:03without Big Dave having to set up a perimeter in your garden. Oh man that sounds genuinely incredible. The fryer's turkey breast. In stores now. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local boar's head deli. Boar's head. Committed to craft since 1905. 102 miles ago the oil light came on. 100 miles ago you noticed. Now it's time to head to take five. This oil change. Fall in love with your car all over again. In just 10 minutes your dream technician will check your tire pressure. Top off fluids. Change your oil. And verify with Carfax exactly

3:37what your car really needs. All while keeping you in the driver's seat. Take five to stay in your car. 10 minute oil change. Save up to 30% on your next oil change to take five. $15 value. Valid to participating locations. Terms and conditions apply. As you well know I'm a person that really

Developmental Psychology

3:53loves developmental psychology especially the changes that happen in the brain as we get older. And so this has really raised the question why is this happening? And also if it is happening is this perception accurate? So to find out more I recently had a really great chat with a person who works in youth services and they told me that engaging with younger people actually isn't difficult. Rather it's about reducing the barriers that stop our younger voices from actually being

4:27heard. And this will mean that we have to use a language that's much more easy to understand and also accessible. And choose methods that actually are preferred by younger people. So really it sounds like we should be doing this for all consultations not just for those with younger people. But seeing as this is supposedly a harder to reach group then how do we remove these perceived roadblocks? I'd like to start by looking at the role social media has to play. Now I know

5:00this is a controversial topic at the moment with some saying that younger people should be actually not able to access social media until a certain age and others saying well actually it is a form of social connection. But anyway that's going to be in a future podcast episode. But because I wanted to know the effects that social media have on younger people I actually turned to some younger members of my family and what they told me was that they actually turned to social media for the reason that it allows

5:31them to have a voice and to actually put comments into a sort of platform where they can then share their ideas. But for some of them they really don't want to be doing that. Rather they'd just like to find out what people of a similar age are thinking about a topic that they're interested in or what other people might be considering doing. What I really found interesting by directly chatting to younger people is that what they'd actually liked to do is be more involved in conversations

6:06about the future, about the environment, about more complex issues. But what seems to be their worry is that when they do talk about this that they might not have their views heard and worse still they might find that they have their comments ridiculed or made fun of or just generally ignored. Now if we know from the workplace this is actually what we call psychological safety. It's the fear that

6:37you're going to have your views and thoughts and ideas ridiculed or humiliated. And for people who work in organizations who've actually really got on top of psychological safety it's important that we remove these stigmas because all views and all perspectives will actually make for a much better workplace and also lead to greater ideas, innovation etc. Now maybe you're wondering why I'm talking about psychological safety. Well it's going to be our younger generation that actually form the workforce of the

7:11future. And so if we can encourage the sharing of ideas at a younger age then perhaps we're already fostering more psychologically safe workplaces of the future. So that's why I touched on that briefly

Transcendent Thinking

7:26because when my younger family members really were saying look we want to have a voice we just don't want to be made fun of. I thought to myself wow there's one of those barriers that we have to reduce or remove completely. So I wanted to know what kind of questions they'd like to be asked and I was amazed to hear how many of the issues that young people are thinking about are actually very much part of what we as a wider community are concerned about. So what concerns are these? Well it could be the

7:56environment, climate change, it could be about self-identity and something that came to my mind is well these are all areas of society. If anything younger people are saying I actually really want to be asked about myself in the future and how I relate to people in the community in the future and something that we could consider as younger people actually want to be asked about their sense of civic responsibility. So maybe this is where the magic lies to hear young voices. Let's start asking

8:30them questions in a way that we can all communicate clearly. I think as adults we're often concerned that we shouldn't burden young people with societal issues but I think a lot of younger people now say that due to the huge sources of information that are available then big issues such as the environment, climate change, mental health, self-identity, all of these things are now really part of a younger person's thought processes. So it's with this in mind and having read a great article about how engaging

9:05something called transcendent thinking can be beneficial for adolescents in that it can promote psychological and social development that I decided that this should be the focus of this episode of the Everyday Neuro podcast. So the idea is that rather than not wanting to burden younger people with asking them the bigger questions that perhaps by engaging them and getting their thoughts and opinions we actually can be making a really beneficial move to not only involve everyone in the big sort of

9:40issues of society but also in helping the younger brain develop and strengthen self-identity and I'll explain why in a moment. So you might be saying what on earth is transcendent thinking and where's the neuro in this episode? Well let's get stuck into that right now. Transcendent thinking is not just a fancy term. It's actually the key to unlocking young minds. If we think of adolescence as a time where we're sort of young philosophers then it's the chance to ponder beyond the surface. It's really a time where

10:14we're asking you know how does my voice, my thoughts, my opinions really affect stuff and I don't just mean within my friendship circle but how do I really fit into society? This is an example of transcendent thinking. It's the cognitive or thinking process that makes us able to consider the bigger picture. So whenever we think or are asked about our thoughts on society then really what we're doing is taking part in transcendent thought and as a study by Mary Helen Imordino Yang and her colleagues has found

10:50when we engage young people in consultations we're actually engaging them in transcendent thought and this will help nurture young brains to really develop more skills and and really we're planting seeds of wisdom. As the young brain is similar to a sponge or has something called high plasticity it's able to soak up experiences and really evolve very very quickly. When young people are invited to share their thoughts perhaps about today's issues and their future then these questions help to shape

11:26or sculpt the neural pathways of their developing brains. Brain development isn't just about neurons firing it's about empathy, resilience and hope and when young voices resonate they're really building bridges within themselves and this is when we can really see a change in self-identity and higher levels of reported well-being. So before I tell you about the research study that has really inspired me to write this episode

Adolescent Brain Development

11:56let's have a look at the adolescent brain and the neuro perspective of adolescence. During adolescence which is kind of the transitional period between childhood and adulthood so the ages of approximately 10 to 19 years the brain undergoes major rewiring. One key player is something called the default mode network so think of it as the brain's kind of daydreaming hub. It's when teens reflect on their

12:29lives imagine the future and wonder about the meaning of it all and in fact we're all constantly using this network. But there's also another network that I want to mention and one that you may have come across before if you've listened to other episodes of the everyday neuro podcast and it's an area or a network called the executive control network. Now does that sound familiar? Perhaps yes. Well it's this network that helps us to focus plan and make decisions and during adolescence this area is constantly evolving

13:04and it's here where it gets very very interesting because the ability to consider abstract ethical and levels of systems at a very high perspective well these are the abilities that actually are formed when we connect the two networks. So when we connect the executive control network with the default mode network what we're doing is we're building a neural bridge between daydreams and practicality

13:40and if we use it then guess what we're actually going to strengthen it and what we're going to talk about now is what are the benefits of strengthening that bridge. I'd like you to imagine 15 year old Alex they're not just worried about maybe the homework or things in society such as climate change and social justice but also who they are and where they fit within this huge world in which we live Alex is an example of a transcendent thinker they're considering what's the ripple effect of my thoughts

14:17and actions and like a mini philosopher Alex is using a style of thinking that actually predicts better identity development. People who are transcendent thinkers explore their values beliefs and relationships and they're less likely apparently to get stuck in an identity limbo it's like they're building a solid mental GPS of who they are and how they relate and connect to society but please don't just take my word

14:49for it let's now have a look at the evidence that has inspired this episode of the everyday neuro podcast so Mary Helen Imordino Yang and colleagues have recently published an article in 2024 in scientific reports called diverse adolescence transcendent thinking predicts young adult psychosocial outcomes via brain network development and this article sheds light on an intriguing aspect

15:20of cognitive growth during an adolescence transcendent thinking now that's a pretty big title so let's unpack it a little bit more together because I think there's a lot in that title that possibly is a little bit confusing so I want to start by saying this used neuroimaging and it looked at 65 young adolescents who were around the ages of 14 to 18 years old and followed them over five years. The researchers asked the

15:55young participants to think about the bigger picture like how their actions affect society as well as ethical issues and what they found is that by experiencing transcendent thought this actually created change in two important brain regions that I mentioned earlier the default mode network and the executive control network and the more they used it the more these areas were activated as they were scanned. So in other words

16:26the research potentially suggests that when younger people consider the impact of their choices beyond themselves their brains develop differently. It's kind of like their minds are flexing and growing stronger. Another important suggestion from this research by Imadino Yang and colleagues is that transcendent thinking impacts identity development as it supports late adolescence identity considerations. So instead of defining defining themselves based on coincidences younger people reflect more on experiences their hopes

17:03their relationships values and their beliefs and this process contributes to stronger identity formation. As this study followed participants over five years the researchers were able to see changes not just in how the brain functions but also that transcendent thinking influenced young adult self-liking and relationship satisfaction and this was due to the participants having a stronger self-identity. So I suppose we can almost imagine it as a developmental cascade.

17:38Hey it's Paige DeSorbo from giggly squad. Okay wait have you ever had one of those moments where you're like I should be doing something fun tonight and then you just don't because you don't have what you need because same. But recently I've been trying to be more of a yes person and honestly Amazon Prime has been enabling that energy. Like the other night I randomly decided I was going to host a last-minute girl's night no planning no groceries nothing and instead of spiraling I just ordered everything I needed and got it that day. Snacks, drinks, even like random

18:11hosting things I absolutely didn't need but emotionally I did. And suddenly it went from maybe next time to yes tonight. That's what I love. Prime's same-day delivery makes it so you can say yes before the moment slips away. Because let's be real the only thing worse than a bad plan is a plan you never make happen. Same-day delivery it's on Prime. Available in select areas terms apply. So if you're trying to be more spontaneous or just less chaotic go to amazon.com slash prime to find millions of items delivered fast. Hello it's Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu Podcast.

18:44And James Acaster here also from the Off Menu Podcast. Imagine a backyard tradition, a sun-drenched afternoon, a massive vat of bubbling oil and a man named Big Dave wearing goggles. It's a lot of effort for a bird. Well what if I told you that Boar's Head has brought that exact backyard tradition right to the deli counter? Well I'd say James you've finally lost it. Boar's Head brings to the deli the taste of deep-fried turkey. It's all the seasoning and that golden fried glory of the Friar's Turkey Breast but without Big Dave having to set up a perimeter in your garden.

19:19Oh man that sounds genuinely incredible. The Friar's Turkey Breast in stores now. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli. Boar's Head committed to craft since 1905.

Conclusion and Future Directions

19:30I think from an educational viewpoint this is really exciting stuff because the findings highlight the importance of nurturing adolescents' tendencies to engage with complex perspectives and emotions. And it's a great way to sort of really encourage them to engage in conversations or consultations about the bigger picture. So rather than avoiding asking younger people to talk about these kind of social dilemmas and situations and the future perhaps we really should be encouraging them and again doing it in a really safe way.

20:12Hearing from younger people it now seems from this research not only benefits them in ways I've mentioned earlier but also enhances society to hear more diverse views. So we might hear different views than we might from older adults and these new perspectives are actually really important for creating diversity and also sort of fostering identity and inclusion. So I'd like to conclude today by returning to the start of this episode where I talked about young people being sort of the hard to reach group in terms of community consultations.

20:53Perhaps now we've heard about the benefits of engaging adolescents in transcendent thinking it's time to make more effort to break down the barriers and to find ways to really remove the roadblocks and make consultations become conversations. We really need to ask and listen to our younger people for their views about the bigger issues in society as this will not only help strengthen intergenerational connection but as the neuro research you've heard about today suggests it will hopefully build bridges in the brains of those who will shape our future our younger people.

21:33So thanks again for listening and I hope you will join me for another episode of the Everyday Neuro Podcast. As always please look after that wonderful brain of yours and until next time take care. Hey it's Paige DeSorbo from Giggly Squad.

22:06Okay wait have you ever had one of those moments where you're like I should be doing something fun tonight and then you just don't because you don't have what you need? Because same. But recently I've been trying to be more of a yes person and honestly Amazon Prime has been enabling that energy. Like the other night I randomly decided I was going to host a last minute girls night. No planning, no groceries, nothing. And instead of spiraling I just ordered everything I needed and got it that day. Snacks, drinks, even like random hosting things I absolutely didn't need but emotionally I did.

22:36And suddenly it went from maybe next time to yes tonight. That's what I love. Prime's same day delivery makes it so you can say yes before the moment slips away. Because let's be real, the only thing worse than a bad plan is a plan you never make happen. Same day delivery, it's on Prime. Available in select areas, terms apply. So if you're trying to be more spontaneous or just less chaotic, go to amazon.com slash prime to find millions of items delivered fast. Hello, it's Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu Podcast. And James Acaster here also from the Off Menu Podcast.

23:09Imagine a backyard tradition. A sun-drenched afternoon, a massive vat of bubbling oil and a man named Big Dave wearing goggles. It's a lot of effort for a bird. Well, what if I told you that Boar's Head has brought that exact backyard tradition right to the deli counter? Well, I'd say James, you've finally lost it. Boar's Head brings to the deli the taste of deep fried turkey. It's all the seasoning and that golden fried glory of the Friar's Turkey Breast, but without Big Dave having to set up a perimeter in your garden.

23:40Oh man, that sounds genuinely incredible. The Friar's Turkey Breast. In stores now. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli. Boar's Head. Committed to craft since 1905. 102 miles ago, the oil light came on. 100 miles ago, you noticed. Now, it's time to head to Take 5. This oil change, fall in love with your car all over again. In just 10 minutes, your dream technician will check your tire pressure, top off fluids, change your oil, and verify with Carfax exactly what your car really needs.

24:13All while keeping you in the driver's seat. Take 5, the stay-in-your-car 10-minute oil change. Save up to 30% on your next oil change to Take 5. $15 value, valid at participating locations, terms and conditions apply.