Yayoi Kusama: Released INTO OBLIVION!

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0:11This is Raquel and Chelsea, and you're listening to Baroque Bitches. Welcome to Baroque Bitches, your art, art, history, gossip podcast. I'm Raquel. I'm Chelsea. And we are back, baby.

0:43We're here. We're here. Get used to it. Get used to it.

0:51Oh, my gosh. So it's hot over here. It's starting to be springtime. Is it still cold? No, thank God. We had our last frost, so now we're getting into garden mode. I basically almost died gardening this weekend because I just did it for so long. And after all this winter, it turns out water aerobics is not very – I'm not trained enough for the amount of physical exertion that I did for the weekend.

1:26Farming is hard. Yeah, farming is, like, way harder than water aerobics. So if I haven't kept you guys up to date, I'm taking a water aerobics class, and I thought it would be a lot more physically challenging. And everybody in the class is, like, 75 and older, which, I mean, there are – some of them are very fit. Oh, I'm sure. Which is not the most challenging class. Nothing against 75-year-olds. I just – yeah. It's a lot of joints. I feel like it's really good for your joints.

1:56I do feel, like, very good about myself leaving that class because everybody's talking about their ailments, and I'm like, oh, my God. I need to live my life right now. Yes. Feeling so good about myself. I don't have any, you know, renal cancer yet or renal failure or anal cancer or, you know, lipedema. Like, I'm not dealing with all this stuff. I just feel so grateful to be, like, alive. Yes. Yes. We're smart, hot, and alive.

2:28And everybody and everybody else, even if you have funky anal fissures. Anal fissures. King Louis XIV had anal fissures. Oh, yeah. That's right. You're living like a king if you could. I was actually – That's totally fine. You'll get those fixed. We can fix those now. It's all good. I was actually looking through our comments on Spotify, and somebody wrote, I like it. It's a lot of fun. Kind of dumb. And I thought that was so funny.

2:58Yeah. Yeah. No, we're pretty dumb. Dumb. Pretty dumb. We're, like, the smartest dumb people. Yeah. We're just smart, dumb people living the life in. We might be geniuses. Probably not, though.

3:15I think there's a fine line between dumb and smart. And we walk it so hard. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah. How's it going? I had a little, like, art opening thing. Cute. And, yeah. That was, like, the first – this is the first one. Is it the first one this year? Yeah. I think it's the first one this year. And I don't love going to openings because you never know what's going to happen of, like,

3:46well, you kind of know it's going to be, like, awkward for a little while. And this opening was bizarre. It was, like, during the day. It was just, like, not the vibe. It was – Yeah. That's weird. Daytime art gallery opening. Like, hmm. Okay. So, let me tell you the tea. Let me tell you the tea. So, like, at drop-off, like, a couple days before, I was dropping off my work. And I go in there. And there's, like, a top gallery and, like, a basement gallery. And so, I'm, like, kind of hoping my stuff's going to be at the top gallery.

4:19And of course it's not. Of course it's not. So, I go in. I have my artwork. And this, like, lady approaches me. There's all these artists there, like, talking about their work, hanging up their work, like, talking to each other, whatever. And I'm, like, oh, hi. Are you an owner slash curator slash gallerist slash in charge? Right. Like, where do I go? Yeah. Like, where do I go? And she's just, like, oh, yeah. You're going to want to – I don't know. You don't want to talk to this guy, the guy that's standing right next to her. And I'm, like, oh, hi.

4:49He's, like, oh, are you dropping off for the art show? I'm, like, no. No. I'm just carrying my, like, giant painting. And, like, no, not at all. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Yeah, hi. Why was I talking to this fucking lady? It was just, like, totally bizarre and weird and, like, a little, like, are you trying to test me or something? Like, I'm not as nice as I look like.

5:14And so I'm, like, what the fuck is this? So he's just, like, okay, come over here and let me check you off of, like, okay. And he said something weird about my, like, my certificate of authenticity. Like, he said that I spelt something wrong, which I totally didn't. I'm, like, what are you talking about? I was, like, you're just being weird. And so – and I'm just, like, so is the show up here? Can I see where it's being hung? And he's, like, oh, no, not yet. It's in the downstairs one. I was, like, is there an entrance to the downstairs one besides, like, this?

5:49Because it looked like it was, like, the back room or some shit. Of, like – and he's just, like, oh, no, it's just – it's just through here. Of, okay, down into the creepy basement that no one's going to go into. Okay, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it. And so I'm, like, whatever. Maybe someone will fucking buy it. And so I leave my painting. Then I go over there 2 to 5. I'm, like, 2 to 5 on Sunday is the opening? And he's, like, yeah, yeah, that's, you know, that's the opening for this one.

6:23And there'll be a lot of people there. I'm, like, okay. And so I go down there. So I go down there all the way to fucking Little – Little Tokyo is so cute. And it has, like, really cute little shops and galleries. There's, like, a really nice, like, central, like, touristy area. I thought it was going to be in there. But, no, it was, like, kind of at the shitty-ass outskirts of Little Tokyo. Like, it's not where the traffic is.

6:54It's not where the haps are. Yeah, like, nobody is going to come down. Nobody even knows this is here. There's no parking. No parking. And it's, like, not a green area. Yeah. And so I'm, like, okay, maybe – I'm, like, oh, there's a lot of galleries and shitty areas that are great. So, like, maybe this will be awesome. Yeah. And so, of course, I go there. Still feeling optimistic. Yeah. I'm, like, let's do this – it's just the first show of the year. Like, it's totally fine. It's going to be fine. And so then I get in there for the opening, and it is, like, it's a lot of artists and no buyers.

7:29Like, no red dots. Yeah. Nothing. I'm, like, okay. It's just everybody, like, brought their mom to see their work hung up on the gallery wall. Totally, which is cute, which is valid, which I want to happen. But I also – yeah, like, we need other people besides the artists that are hanging them. Yeah. Okay. Womp womp. Yeah, it's kind of a bummer, but I have a big, like, market thing coming up, which I'm hoping that I'm going to sell a lot there. So. We'll see. You'll do it.

8:00I believe in you. It's tough. I mean, going through all this bullshit, like, we've all been there. If you've gone to go hang – I mean, I've had my work hung upside down. I've had my work stacked in a pile when I went to pick it up. Like, it's just – Twice they've hung my work on the ceiling. Twice. Twice. All the way up. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, yep, it's on the ceiling again. Nobody looks up there. What? Nobody's going to look up.

8:32That's not how you view art. You guys are so mean. Nobody's going to lay down, like, to look up to the ceiling. What the fuck? And don't take on as many artists if you can't fit them all in. Yeah, I don't know. More selective with the pieces than – Maybe we've got to interview these places and screen them. Who's going to – No, it's got to be – it's got to be the end of – I'm sorry if you're a gallerist and you're hearing this, but it's got to be the end of you guys. It's so stupid. Burn. Wrath. Yeah. I'm selling this shit myself.

9:03Like, no. No more of you guys. The thing is with gallery shows is, like, I do like them because I feel like I can put my more, like, experimental pieces in there rather than, like, full-blown sellable work, which is fun. And to get, like, a little more feedback on, like, my, like, more regular shit. But it's still, like, what am I thinking anyway? What am I thinking about getting a red dot in this bitch right now? Like, that's not happening. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how y'all stay – I don't know how y'all stay afloat.

9:35I really don't. You must have some artists. They're probably all online or something. Yeah. I don't know. Gone are the days of in-person shopping. It's all Instagram and, you know. It's true. It's totally true. I got to get with the times. Got to get with the times. Got to get with the times. Yeah. Got to record your hand making that work. Yeah. And do your progress shots. So, yeah. Just keep making. Just keep making. Yeah. Just keep making stuff. Absolutely. And it's weird out there.

10:05It's totally weird out there. It is weird out there. Until you find – until you find your rich patron, like, so much – so many of our artists have done is find that one guy. You just got to find that one guy that gets it. Totally. So, still hoping. We're all rooting for you. I speak for the collective of all of us. We are all rooting for you. Thank you. And also, I want to buy the one piece.

10:36I want to buy it. It was on your Etsy shop. We'll talk. You can buy it on us. We will talk. All right. I have so many things that happened, but I'm going to save them for – Save them for the page. The page. We'll catch you on the Patreon. Oh, hello there, you beautiful creature. Looks like you can't get enough of the Baroque Bitches Art History Gossip Podcast.

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11:51All right. Are you ready? Let's do it. You ready? I don't even know what we're – I don't even know what we're talking about right now, man. Yes, you do. I texted you about it on Sunday. I don't even know. This one's so good. Okay. You do know. You know this person. I forgot. I forgot. Oh, no. Now I remember. Now I remember. I remember. It's because you were hungover now. I know. Now I know what happened. And too many blue cheese, olive martinis.

12:22Blue cheese, blue cheese, olive martinis. You weren't with it on Sunday when I texted you. You were just relieved that I pushed it to Tuesday, I'm sure. Yeah. Thank God. All right. Listen. Let's visualize. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. White room.

13:04At first, it's quiet. Too quiet. The kind of quiet where your own thoughts start getting louder and louder. Then, a dot appears. Just one. Red. Floating. Pulsing. Then another. And another. And another. They multiply. Spreading across the walls. The ceiling. Your hands. Oh God, they're on your hands now.

13:34You look down. You're covered in dots. Not painted. Absorbed. Your body dissolves into a pattern. You are no longer a being of your own kind. You are dismembered, absorbed, and separated into tiny dots and space. You are just repetition. A rhythm. A hallucination that forgot it wasn't real. The room stretches forever. An endless field with no beginning and no end. Just constant forever dots. So, welcome to Yayoi Kusama, or Shabbat say, released into oblivion.

14:30Into oblivion. Run, baby. I'm here with you. Ooh. The dot girl. Dot lady. The polka dot lady. That's like how she's known. That's her alias. Yes. Oh my God. She's like the most Instagrammable original influencer. Just 100% TikTok ready. Literally has blown the fuck up. You could wait hours in line to go into one of her infinity rooms.

15:03Have you been in one? I have, because I used to live right next to the Broad. The Broad. They have such a good one. The Broad has an infinity room. Is it still there? I haven't been down there in so long. I mean, the Broad is interesting. You actually know the story of the Broad, right? They'll tell it to you when you walk in. Yes. And I have like a little like weird tea about it, because I tried to apply for the Broad. I got an interview. So basically, fuck the Broad. So fuck the Broad. No, like it was, it was a situation where like, I was getting looked up and down, full blown.

15:41And I'm like, what the fuck is this? And I remember there was two ladies interviewing me. And I was like, that was right when I got out of CCA. So I'm like, listen, I live next door. And I, I'm a crazy art kid. I just got a master's. Like, I, I, I'd love to be a docent. You can pay me whatevs. Like, I'd love to work here. Yeah, I know. I feel like it's like a nepotism situation. Like, you have to know somebody and know somebody and know somebody, be birthed into it forever ago. And just have lots of money that you don't have to work for.

16:11No, and you really do need like a lot more gallery experience. And I had some, like, I, I had some throughout college. And I was like, I've worked in a couple galleries, like, as an intern. And then, like, a couple weeks later, this, the lady called, one of the ladies that interviewed me called me back. And then she was like, sorry, you didn't get a job. I'm like, oh, my God, fucking why? And she's like, she's like, I really liked you. But we just ended up not. And I'm like, no, it was the other fucking bitch lady that kept looking up me up and down.

16:45And, like, giving me attitude of, like, there was one lady that was, like, really, really kind. Like, really, really nice. Was, me and her were vibing. I think the other lady was jealous that me and this other lady was vibing super hard. She didn't want to be in the same room. What the fuck she was giving me, like, yeah, she was giving me, like, skanks bitch vibes. And it is what it is. It is what it is. And I looked so cute. I remember, like, my outfit for the interview, I was, like, trying to be such a gallery girl.

17:17Like, had my hair all straight, like, straight black down. Yeah. But, like, a white blouse and black slat. Like, I was doing the thing. Yeah. You basically look like a waiter. And this lady was, like, just everything I said, she was just, like, giving me mad. Like, I must have did something to her in a past life or something. Like, I fucking stabbed you in the back in the past life, lady. And this other lady is, like, fucking jizzing all over me and, like, being all good with me and shit. I'm like, you know, I hope this lady is in charge.

17:48It's like, no, this lady is in charge, of course. So, The Brode, I have some questions. I have some fucking questions about your hiring staff. I would have been such a fun docent. Oh, my God. Can you imagine? Oh, my God. You really missed opportunity. Let's just say it. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Anyway. Yeah. The Brode is Eli and Edith's Brode personal collection. Art collection. Throughout the years of modern and contemporary art, it is free to go to.

18:22You do have to get a reservation. Make a reservation. Yeah. But, yeah, it's totally, totally available to the public. And, yeah, he was some big, like, real estate investor. Finance. Some shit. Yeah, finance. And he was like, art is a good investment. And he was not wrong. Not wrong. He's got a bunch of Jeff Koons. Like, he's got a bunch of the bangers. A billion dollar collection. And I love it when the Jeff Koons, like, the balloon dog is right when you walk in.

18:53Yes. And they love to be like, this piece is worth $248 million. They love. It's the most expensive piece in here. And you're like, oh, my God. Okay. That's crazy. That's crazy. Um, well, but you might, when you have gone, have stepped into an infinity room. Do you remember which one you went into? Well, it was, I don't remember, like, the title or anything. But this one was, like, a bunch of stars. It was a bunch of stars, yeah. So, yeah, you kind of walk down this path and then all of the light, these, like, little

19:30lights everywhere do this kind of dance around you. And it's, like, very immersive and really, really kind of psychedelic. Right. I, I, every time I've gone into one, I have felt incredibly, like, happy. Yeah, you feel kind of loopy. Yeah. Like, I'm not alarmed. And I'm not, like, arrested by, by infinity. It's a very interesting sensory experience. It is. It is. And if you don't like flashing lights, that's not going to do it.

20:01It's probably not your thing. But they're, they're all different kinds of infinity rooms. And we're going to get into all of it. Why am I getting ahead of myself? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. We have to talk about her and her life and all the things. So, let's get into it. Why is she doing weird stars rooms? What is with all this dots? How did you get famous? What the fuck? What are you? Oh, my God. Who are you? Okay. Where are you from? Where are you from? Which is Zodiac sign?

20:32We're going to get into all of it. So, we're going to Matsumoto, Japan in the 1920s. And growing up in Matsumoto, it would have basically been like living inside of a stunning nature documentary directed by your strictest relative. You've got the Japanese Alps. We all know that like iconic, you know, mountains. Lots of serene, stilled nature, majestic, rice fields, peaceful, poetic, small town vibes, right?

21:04Yes. But socially, I mean, we're still like over, you know, like 100 years ago. Pretty tradition. Everyone knows your business. Your family definitely knows your business. And if you're a young girl, your life path is basically pre-installed like factory settings. Tradition with a capital T. Respect your elders. Follow the rules. Don't get any quote unquote ideas. Yeah. Meanwhile, then. Don't even look at them. Don't.

21:36You're thinking. Oh, my God. You're a woman. Gross. You have a brain. Stop it. Disgusting. Yuck. And meanwhile, the outside world is starting to like flirt with modernity, right? Like things are starting to go in a different direction. Western fashion, new art styles, like cultural remixing is happening, right? And especially in the art world, we're already past like impressionists.

22:06We're like, you know, we're making moves. We're going forward. Doing some pretty weird stuff. We're creeping in. And we're like a little pre-abstract expressionism. Like we're getting weird. And we're not there yet. So if you're like a slightly rebellious kid, you're just like, okay, like, you know, all these rules. What if I don't do any of that? Suddenly your imagination becomes your main form of entertainment because you're not allowed to be outwardly imaginative. So it's only natural that one would like withdraw inward, right?

22:41Mm-hmm. And all this sets the backdrop for the beginning of the life of our little artist who you know is going to disrupt the shit out of this. Yes. A-S-L. A-S-L.

22:55Location. Location. And I'm sorry in advance. I got to say it one more time. A-S-H-A-S-A-S-E. I like, love it so much. A-S-H-A-S-A-S-E. Konnichiwa. Kampai. All of it. Those are all the words that I'm going to butcher in addition to all the names. So I'm sorry. Mom is Shigeru Kusama and her mom, mom, in modern times would be just considered like a lot and getting like Babs vibes, like Barbra Streisand.

23:26Oh. Did you see the comment that Barbra Streisand left on, I think it was like Amy Schumer's Instagram where she was like, you look great. Did you take Osempic? Like she's like in. Like girl. Okay. Mom, stop it. Yeah. You can like privately message me if you want to know the tea. If you want to know how I got the body. Yeah. Not just on my thing in the face. Did you take Osempic? Huh?

23:57But I would say that Yayoi's mom is like not as fun as Babs. So, but anyway, so she came from a wealthy conservative family and ran her household with strict, no-nonsense authority, very much a we don't do feelings here, we do expectations kind of woman. Yeah. She was openly opposed to Kusama's pursuing art and would often confiscate her fucking artwork, sometimes even destroying them, which is just like village and origin story behavior.

24:33Like, come on. Totally. Yeah. Do you want to be put in a home, dude? Like, and it's not going to be a nice one. It's going to be a state, the state issued one. Like, yeah, I tear up my art. Take away my art supplies. Yeah, you're going to go. Oh, my God. I'm not calling you later. She gets so much worse and we're going to get into that too. Wild. Wild. Wild.

25:02Yes. But dad, dad is Kumakichi Kusama. Daddy was a seed merchant. And he has lots of seeds. Okay.

25:20Foreshadowing, foreshadowing, foreshadowing. So like a seed merchant. But on paper. So on paper at the time. I get it. There might be. Merchandising your seed. It looks like there might be a market for daddy's seed. Yeah, daddy's seed is going to be spread a lot. Oh, my God. Tea already. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we'll get into that. But on paper, like a seed merchant.

25:53Everybody needs seeds. Everybody does need seeds. It's very true. I just bought some seeds to plant over the weekend. And again. Stocopono. Stocopono. Stocopono. But on paper, that would have meant like respectable, stable, provider of the house energy. Like it's not.

26:14Yeah. But it gets messy with daddy. So let's just keep going. But Yayoi was born March 22nd, 1929 in Matsumoto, Japan, which makes her an Aries. Aries season. We need this. Aries season. We need this. We don't get very many Aries artists. Yes. So this was special. And we're so back in our Aries era right now. Yeah, dude. It's a time of the season.

26:44What is it? Like, I think in a couple of days, all of the planets. I think that's on the 17th. All of the planets are going to be aligned in Aries, like, including the moon. It's going to be awesome. Oh, it's going to be some quiz. Something's going to happen. It's going to be something. Maybe it is going to happen. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. But we don't – so we don't always get a textbook Aries in art history, though. And she is, like, the blueprint.

27:15She's bold, obsessive, to a level that would, like, literally change the art world. And she's the kind of person who will move across the globe fueled by pure determination and, like, spite. Yeah.

27:31Yeah, do it out of spite. She's not just a Aries. She's the Aries. All fire intensity, and we're here for it. And she arguably is the storm of Bruin behind those peaceful Matsumoto mountains. Because this was not a picture-perfect Japanese household. You might imagine, like, from looking at it from a distance. This was real-life drama. Slow-burning and constant. Tucked behind closed doors in polite silence. Because from the very beginning, Yayoi's father had a bit of a problem keeping the peen in the pants.

28:10A problem with his seed. With his seed spreading. Yes. We got a cheater-cheater pumpkin eater in the house. Another cheater, you guys. Oh, my God. And he's not just, like, a one-woman type of cheater where, you know, he has a secret family or something like that. Which I know that's also bad. But he's, like, a cereal, Tomcat, Jack Nicholson, all around town. Just spreading that seed. Spread, spread, spread, spread, spread. Oh, dude. And the thing is, is, like, this is a small town.

28:42So everyone knows about this. Yeah. And Mom is not happy. I mean, she's not happy her daughter's making drawings. Can you imagine how she feels about her husband putting his penis in somebody else's vagina? Yeah, Mom, I think my art is the last thing you need to think about right now. That's your last of your problems right now, Mom. Well, Mom definitely has some controlling issues. And this is where it gets, like, so awful from the start. So she makes her daughter, our heroine in the story, follow her dad around to, like, chronicle his penis voyages.

29:19She's, like, go follow him, report back, tell me what you see, all the stuff. I know, it's so fucked, right? Mom, are you serious? Like, I just can't imagine. That's when you're in full delusion. Like, that's full delusion. That's psychosis right there. You're letting your kid, you're making your kid go and spy on your dad. It's not okay. Take notes on the ladies he's with. It's very upsetting. Bro. I know. It's so fucked. Yeah, make art, make obsessive weird, like, polka dots.

29:51Yeah, I know, totally. I mean, as you can imagine, this creates, like, lots of trauma. It's so traumatizing to even think about. I mean, instead of running around having some carefree childhood, Kusama's out here collecting emotional evidence. Like, she's in some kind of domestic espionage thriller she never auditioned for. I was just like, ah. What the fuck? Oh. Wow. So, all of this. I know. Right off the bat with a T. Yeah. And all of this chaos unfolds alongside something even stranger.

30:27So, Yayoi's inner world is beginning to, like, fracture in vision. Like, literally. Not the kind where you're like, oh, I just had a weird dream. Like, the kind where you're like, wait, am I on acid? But, like, no, I didn't take acid. Like, this is real life story sort of deal. From a very young age, she starts experiencing vivid hallucinations. Like, fields of dots and repeating patterns crawl across surfaces and swallow objects and space, even her own body.

31:03So, imagine. That sounds like a DMT chip or something, man. That sounds like mushrooms or something. It's like living inside of a cartoon. Like, you're literally watching animated objects kind of, like, ripple through your entire everyday world and consume your everyday world. Yeah. And it's just like, how the fuck are you supposed to do? So, and she's, you gotta remember, she's in this, like, household where she can't really share any of this.

31:40So, she's just, like, internalizing it all. Yeah. And it's, like, her reality is not staying still. Instead, it's duplicating and, like, overflowing and not behaving how she wants it to, right? What? It's, like, manifesting in, like, her family life is, like, manifesting or something. Yeah, like, that loss of control is manifesting in her own mind. With, like, visuals. Wow. So, it's interesting, and this is, like, I think because of the age that this happens at.

32:14Instead of, like, ignoring or suppressing the hallucinations or getting, like, totally freaked out and kind of seizing and be like, ah, mom, like, what the fuck? She embraces them. She's leaning into it. Yeah. She's like, okay, fuck yeah. Like, here we go. My life is, like, filled with anxiety enough. Like, this could, that's kind of how I feel, like, I've been, of course, chronically online, and there's, like, this, one of the memes that people are doing is, like, if you're a highly anxious person, like, you're stoked about, like, okay, we want to do Mad Max right now.

32:52Like, I'm so ready. I have so much, like, pent up and craziness that, like, this is totally easy. It's almost like she's, instead of being afraid of the trip or, like, afraid because she's, like, what do I have to fucking lose, dude? Like, my whole life is anxiety right now of, like, and this fractured family system, like, what do I have to lose? Let's, let's, let's get on this journey. Let's go on the train.

33:23And I think it's, like, when you're a child, you don't have as much fear sometimes. Yeah, you don't have that bias. Like, this obviously doesn't apply to, like, all children, but a lot of the times your fears are not adult fears. They're, like, you know, things that are anti-reality anyway, like, monsters under your bed and things like that. Like. Yeah. So I think it's, like, this, maybe that naive, like, you know, that naivete, like, lends itself.

33:54This must be normal. Like, okay, well, fuck it. Like, this is cool. Like, I get to follow little dots around and, like, you know, play in my own little world. Yeah. So she begins to. She's, like, making her own dream world or something. Yeah. I mean. She begins to draw her hallucinations, turning what could have been, like, terrifying into something structured, something visible, and something that's her own. And while the household around her is tangled in secrecy and fucking all the adult drama that she was never meant to witness, she's quietly building a parallel universe out of repetition and pattern, laying the foundation for visual language that would want.

34:37That's, like, that's, like, going to set the groundwork for what's to come next. So, and what's really interesting is how early this starts to shape her relationship with making art. Because she doesn't treat drawing, like, a cute hobby or a classroom assignment. It's, like, a necessity. Yeah. And we see this amongst, like, the majority of artists, right? Yeah. They just can't stop sketching, documenting, trying to hold on to what she's seeing before it shifts again.

35:08It's, like, she can't get it out of her body and onto paper fast enough. Yeah. And her early works are already fixated on repetition, accumulation, as if she's trying to, like, stabilize that world onto paper, even though it keeps dissolving over and over and over again. So there's, like, an urgency to it. Like, if she stops drawing it, the patterns might go away or just swallow her thoughts completely. She's like, no, I need to, like, document this.

35:39Ooh. And mom and dad in school life doesn't exactly, like, nurture this repetitive, like, intense drawing habit. Traditional art education in Japan at the time is structured, disciplined, and rooted in technique and conformity. Like, brush, like, careful brushwork, approved subjects, respect for established forms. Yes. And she's, they're, like, sorry.

36:08I mean, the vibes definitely discipline hierarchy and don't get weird with it. Yeah. Artists were expected to train, like, monks of aesthetics, like, endlessly practicing technique, copying established masters, and proving they could do things correctly before even thinking about doing anything interesting or on their own. So she studied nihonga, which is traditional Japanese painting with, like, delicate materials and nature-heavy themes. Um, and the goal was precision over personality.

36:39So she's not, like, banned from doing her own thing, but, you know, it's frowned upon. Yeah. It's frowned upon. She's like, this isn't my, the crazy world, the, the psychedelic world that I was trying to get out of my dream state. Like, this isn't what I meant when I said I wanted to do art. Like, I don't want to paint trees. Yeah. I want to paint fucking dots. Leave me alone. Yeah. I want to, I want to paint what's going on in my brain. I don't want to paint, like, cranes.

37:09Yeah. I mean, she's, like, over here, like, she's, like, visual and visual overload. Like, compulsively rendering, like, infinite amount of dots. I feel like her brain, at this point, seems like, you know, when you have, like, 800 tabs open on your web browser and you have to, like, close them all out to even begin to understand where you were once at? I feel like that's just how she constantly must feel. Totally. Like, she has too many tabs open. Yeah. Yeah. And now she has to, like, do this really.

37:41She has to slow her brain down just to, like, delicate, process-based. Just, like, oh, so much process. I feel like that would hurt her soul. Yeah. And. It puts you in a little box. Puts you in a little box.

37:59Teachers didn't really always. You can't be doing that to know Aries, dude. They get really pissed off. No. No. No, no, no. They hate that.

38:10But teachers didn't always know what to do with her work. It was too strange, too emotional. To, like, not wrong exactly, but unsettling in a way. Something is unsettling when it feels like it's coming from somewhere deeper than instruction. They, like, you know, sit in the chair, do what we tell you. And she's like, ugh, I don't want to. Yeah. So, and there's also a cultural expectation running underneath everything because she's a young woman. She's supposed to be refined, controlled, and headed towards a stable, domesticated future.

38:45Art, especially experimental or obsessive art, is not the expected path. You're, so, she's existing in the strange in-between space. She's technically trained, yeah, internally already somewhere else entirely. When she studies traditional painting methods, learning all this stuff, she starts bending the structure towards her own visual language. It's like she's speaking a completely different dialect of seeing, but forced to write it in

39:17a different language that wasn't designed for her thoughts. And socially, this only deepens her sense of isolation because other students are working within the shared expectations. They're not bending the rules. And she's over here, like, making dot drawings. It's a mountain drawing. It really sucks when you're the weirdest one out of the weirdest kids. She's the weird kid, yeah, for sure. Of, like, God, am I the weirdest one out of the art kids? Shit, dude. Like, even these guys don't get me?

39:48Then I'm really fucked. I'm alone, then. Then I'm alone. I have to do this alone. And she doesn't shut down, though. She, like, rates her on herself. She doubles down. More drawing, more repetition, more immersion into pattern until it becomes not just subject, but identity. It's like, like, I love it when it's like, you have this delusional amount of confidence. Yeah. Of that came out of, that has no base of there's nobody rooting for you.

40:19You just know that this is right. Like, I have to do it. I just, like. I love that level. I love that level. You can do amazing shit when nobody is rooting for you. Nobody's rooting for you. Not even your parents. Not your teachers. Not your, like, peers that are supposed to be, like, at your level of you're on such a different plane that you have to just be so, like, it's gonna work out because I know it is. Which is fucking wild to think about, but that's truly it.

40:54Like, she, like, if you think about the time she's coming out of, she wouldn't have had, like, there's no minimalism in Matsumoto Japan at this time. She came out of fucking nowhere. Of nowhere. This is, like, a true visionary. Yeah. A true, like, one of a fucking kind. And so she gets out of school and family's still, like, nah, dude. The dot's gotta go. And her mom, her mom is still very much, like, destroy all the evidence era. And society's still pushing her to try to, like, be normal, be quiet, maybe get married.

41:28And then she's, like, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna get the fuck out of here. Hell yeah. Fuck all of you guys. Bye. Exactly. Exactly. Leave. I mean. Leave. So. And by the late 1950s, she does it. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

41:57New York.

42:06Dude, in the 50s. Dude. landing in it landing in it i can't wait to tell you what happens next so so she's like literally no support so fucking poor there's nothing guaranteeing her success at this point she's just all vibes determination and a portfolio full of work that most people didn't fucking understand yeah giving main character energy but like also kind of terrifying

42:39no this is the this is the aries energy i think we need is the blind optimism is like i think we we all have to ride that right now that's what we need we need this we need her we need her energy blind optimism and determination no one is telling her she will succeed at this point i love it when i meet those people of like what are you doing they're like no support didn't you have no money and and you are the confidence is so hardcore like yep you're gonna do it you're gonna do fine

43:12you're gonna do fine here for it yeah that's the energy we need well and at this time she would have really needed it because she's walking into the center of the art world yeah and we're talking big personalities like big egos and movements like abstract expressionism already dominating the scene you've got artists out here flinging paint with existential angst and kusama walks in and is like hi i brought infinity so instead of shrinking herself to fit in she does exact the exact opposite

43:45she goes bigger and this is where her famous infinity nests start taking over so these are massive canvases covered edge to edge in these tiny obsessive looping brush strokes that feel endless not chaotic not random control but also kind of like unhinged because they're so fucking huge it's repetition pushed to the point where it stops being decorative and this is mushrooms

44:15this is psychedelic it literally is what being on mushrooms feels like or like in alice in wonderland yeah but it's like fun i don't know i think her work is very fun like totally and moving and i just love it and so it's but she's smart with this move because she makes the work so fucking big that it then becomes yeah immersive unavoidable like suffocating like you stare too long you might

44:45like feel like you're gonna fall in and never come out and here's the crazy thing the new york art scene is like we don't get it i don't understand but for a completely different reason than the japanese crowd in japan she was too weird for the system in new york she's competing in a space where weird is currency so like what the fuck why is this not adding up but she's also a japanese woman in a very

45:16male-dominated western art world and at first critics just like don't clock it do her early and if fucking de kuning did this they would be jizzing all over it come on come on more more more yeah yeah and like they have they have like this presence but there's also a like a delicate femininity to it too like there is a pattern here in a way even though it's it's it's seemingly random it it seems like there's still a system here like this is not the

45:52splatter the paint in a moment of angry right that the boys love right it looks like jizz splatters on the canvas they like that they like that you know that they like that they like the guttural feeling of feeling like they do jizz on the stuff jizz on the canvas something like and then when you come to this like this is just as powerful and just as dominating as like a giant pollock

46:24but it's approached with precision and and sincerity and a lot of care yeah and then oh it's a japanese woman i get it i also don't like it i don't want it yeah they're like it doesn't look it doesn't relate she's just like a hair like a hair ahead of her time right because we're not quite into like minimalism yet and this kind of like teeters on that right of like yeah like just on timeline

47:00strictly like timeline wise too yeah and critics are like too repetitive too labor intensive too pathological but some did admire the discipline calling them meditative and radical in their restraint and others are like basically like girl are you okay like yeah are you all right like this must have taken you a really long time worry about it so there's this like we are a little i love your

47:30art we're a little worried yeah you eating you eating water okay yeah hydrating there's like this underlying tone in reviews that frames her work as less innovative and more compulsion she's crazy yeah they're like writing her off which let's be honest says more about their discomfort than her intent fuck you guys totally like and i think it's a lot of like oh you spent how much how much time on this and i spent how much time on this yours isn't valid

48:05because mine is more immediate and you're like you're just jealous because you don't have the bandwidth they're just not ready yeah or the discipline to sit there at a painting for 20 plus hours you have to just splatter splatter splatter it's a moment in time and it's like are you coping much you know you can overdose on copamine oh my god it's i know it's like oh i got it immediate i want

48:37to be idiocy of like doing or is it easier that's why you like it i mean honestly i have done i've dabbled in both doing like hyper realistic painting or trying to and then also abstract painting and i will say i'm like i like abstract painting because it is easier and i just like it more like you know but some people like to get obsessive and that's okay i mean that's good too they're both good but i

49:08think like dismissing it because of the hours it's fucking why because of the labor because of how much labor well is okay okay you don't get it yet you don't get it it's about to get even more infuriating so okay okay okay i'm ready oh just wait so she's navigating not just artistic boundaries but cultural and gender ones too and spoiler alert people might be not on board yet but that doesn't stop her

49:40from having people absolutely take her away her ideas and not giving her credit which is a polite say way of saying like she got fucking robbed yeah so here's where the gossip gets starts getting juicy um so while she's out here painstakingly building this entire universe out of repetition certain male artists because always you guys why yeah they are taking notes and by taking notes i mean borrowing liberally without always saying thank you the conversation around

50:14minimalism starts gaining traction clean lines repetition industrial aesthetics and suddenly her early explorations of endless patterning feel very familiar she herself later calls out figures like donald judd suggesting that aspects of her work i knew it i knew judd did it i knew judd did it i'm like yeah like donald judd yeah like donald yeah we knew exactly who was looking exactly

50:46and no acknowledgement and like the timelines too suspicious like they were in the same circles he would have seen her work yeah and then there's andy warhol yeah you cannot talk about new york in the 60s without him right yeah warhol's whole thing repetition maryland soup cans mass production oddly familiar to kusama's early conceptual territory now to be fair warhol's approach is rooted in like

51:18consumer culture obviously hers is more rooted in psychological and like immersion but there is overlap overlap and people fucking notice and she notices too and she accuses him of copying her elements of her work of using her serial imagery and whether it's direct theft or shared error in the same conceptual room it just depends on who you ask but the tension palpable could cut it with a knife

51:50and she's over here like navigating the the big boys yes and like how fucking scary to go into a room with donald judd and andy warhol and be like i think you guys fucking copied me actually and no one's gonna believe her like no but she has she has the power of the delulu to on her side yeah she's not you know she's not gonna let it get her down she's gonna do so much shit around these

52:20fucking guys just wait until i tell you what she does she's fucking incredible so she starts staging these like wild unapologetically chaotic happenings basically proto-performance art spectacles where bodies become canvases we're talking naked participants covered in polka dots dancing protesting existing in these surreal public interventions so she would organize these happenings in places like

52:56central park wall street anti-war protests with so she's like integrating her visions in her world like her hallucinations into modern day new york everywhere you go it's art it's activism it's a little bit scandal and the press fucking loves it at one point okay this is so good at one point she writes an open letter to richard nixon offering to sleep with him in exchange for ending the vietnam war i mean like

53:31that's so good where does this bitch come from i mean come on we got the asl but i'm like what the fuck just happened she's from another planet she's basically the david bowie in the art world i mean this is perfect timing though i mean i feel like these things are the hippie movements like this is liberation this is the peace movement so civil rights i mean disrupting and unpacking and throwing back up in the face of society with these with these like iconic and painting people with the dots yeah you're

54:08one of uh you're one of the collective of like she's kind of taking psychedelics man and that's my that's my only thing i'm like god if and if she's doing this without the help of drugs then she is truly a great artist she's just from another planet she's literally the david bowie of the art world seriously um and she like this whole thing about integrating people it's not just performance art it's literally dissolving the boundary between art and life totally because that's her experience

54:44right the dots move off the canvas and onto bodies into space and into experience that's exactly what her experience is like and you can't like avoid that it's so good so by the mid to late 1960s her reputation is like complicated because people know her but she's not always respected by her male counterparts and critics are definitely like divided they feel like she is sorry some describe her as visionary ahead of her time pushing repetition into the realm of the

55:20sublime and others reduce her to spectacle eccentric attention seeking and even unstable yeah there's a gendered edge to a lot of this criticism whether they admit it or not when men repeat art forms it's minimalism but when she does it it's obsession yeah right of like yeah with the unstable thing of like are we are we call if we are calling someone like jackson pollock unstable it's because he's such a genius that yeah of course he has a has a tough personal life because he's an artistic

56:00genius right and so if they're like yeah she is over the top she's she's unstable and it's not it's not with the tinge of positivity to that yeah right yeah you're unstable of course you are you're an artist right and you're revolutionary artist of course you're going to be a little unstable exactly but no they're saying she's just crazy yeah she's loco we see you yeah it's not a kind situation it's not because she's such a genius that she's going

56:33to be unstable and i don't see anything necessarily unstable about any of this besides fighting the mainstream fighting the norm and yeah man all at fucking once and that's why she's seen as unstable i mean we literally we saw what happened to yoko during like what happened to yoko yeah fucking yeah