Upland News, PATH, Farm Bill, Acquisitions & More

0:00This episode of The Flush Podcast is brought to you by Walton's, Hoxie Native Seeds, Onyx Hunt, the Minnesota Horse and Hunt Club, HuntFishSD.com, Rufflin Kennels, Black Gold Dog Food, and by Game Virtual Shooting Simulators. Today, we're talking about a whole lot of news in the upland world with John Locks, the Permanent Habitat Protections Manager at Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever. We'll give an update on the farm bill and where it stands in Washington, D.C., new land acquisitions, the state of the PATH program, and what it means for more opportunities

0:32this hunting season, CRP signups, a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that builds habitat in North Dakota, a few pheasant facts, and a whole lot more. Stick around.

0:56Welcome to another episode of The Flush Podcast. I'm your host, Travis Frank. Big Al is hiding behind the camera. He is our producer. John Locks is our guest today. He's the Permanent Habitat Protections Manager at Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever. John, you and I have one thing in common today. We have a PATH sign behind our backs. I was going to say that. Both of us have the same one. Actually, I think, yeah. This looks a little bit shinier than ours. Let's glare. It's

1:27the way the sun. He's got photos of his family back there. He's got a couple of pheasants on the shelf. He's got, what is that mounted bird over your shoulder that I can't quit? I got a ptarmigan from Alaska. Nice. Wow. Where did you go in Alaska to get it? Hunted on the Aleutian Islands a couple of years ago. We hunted sea ducks and chased ptarmigan around. It was a blast. That is a hunt of a lifetime. Is that your greatest adventure? Probably. Yeah. It was pretty wild. Did you have any interesting plane stories like Travis had when he went to Alaska? Yeah.

2:01Not especially. No. It was pretty interesting, I guess, flying in there. They literally flew the TSA agents in and flew the TSA agents out. That was the only people on the plane. That was kind of odd. You were by yourself? Yeah. Well, with another couple hunting buddies, but that was literally the only people on the plane. Did you fly your dogs in? No, I didn't. Not on that trip. No. So, did you hunt behind dogs? No. We just kind of chased them around the terrain. It was pretty

2:37fun, but it would have been a blast with dogs. Right. I'd love to go back and do it with pointing dogs. It'd be sweet. So, what made you decide to go to Alaska to hunt the Aleutian Islands? I kind of got roped into it with a friend of mine that lives in Alaska, and he invited me up. He'd been wanting me to come up, and he didn't have to pull too hard on that one. Right. My goodness. I'm not asking you to give exact numbers here, but just curious. What does a hunt like that cost?

3:09Man. In the end, it was a few thousand, you know, I mean, plus travel. So, I don't even remember, to be honest. Did you stay with your friend up there, or did you stay in a, like, a laundry hotel? Yeah. We stayed in a house on the island. Yeah. It was all a remote, remote type trip. So, I went to school with a guy that, he's a teacher up on a village up there, a native village in Alaska, and I keep threatening to come visit him and do some hunting while there. They do a lot of

3:43subsistence hunting, trapping, and they can harvest animals that I couldn't because I'm, you know, the way that the laws are written up there. But just, there's no roads to get in, and I just think it would be fascinating. Snow machine or plane, that's the only way in. I also feel like it always sounds really cool. Like, oh, it'd be so cool to live in Alaska, but in the summer when it's always sunny, and then in the winter when it's always dark, just that's the only part that it's like, especially when it's dark out.

4:15You're saying you're not mentally tough enough, Al? I just feel like if it's dark 24-7, you know? Like, my ancestors are from Norway, and they had to deal with that, and I don't know how they dealt with that. I feel like I'd be sad a lot when it's always dark. John, was this hunt after you and I hunted together? Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. So, now that you've done that, if you could hunt anywhere in North America for upland birds, where would you hunt, and who would you take with you? Oh, boy. And why is it, Travis? And why is it? Yeah.

4:46That's a great question. I absolutely love hunting prairie grouse every fall, so that's something that I couldn't let go of, but one that's on my bucket list for sure is a desert quail-type trip. I'm sure you've done some of those, but that's always appealed to me, and I just haven't made it happen yet. Which quail species would you want to get is the top of your list? Oh, Montezumas, probably. Yeah. They're pretty cool. I mean, there's no other bird that has that color pattern.

5:18For sure. It is out of this world. Yeah. Who would you take with you?

5:23Oh, if my son had a few more years on him, I would take him. Otherwise, just kind of the same old hunting buddies that I travel around with. You guys recently were in North Dakota as a team, Presence Forever and Quail Forever. Is this an annual gathering that you guys have? We'll just give our listeners a peek kind of behind the scenes as to what's going on internally, that you guys gather up there in North Dakota and have a sort of a summit? Yeah. So this actually was a large kind of industry conference. So it was the Williston

6:00Basin Petroleum Conference that's held. I'm not sure if it's held in Bismarck every year, but I think it's held every other year. They're an industry partner with the Land and Legacy Initiative going on in North Dakota and North Dakota Path and a lot of cool partnerships in the works. Um, we were invited up there to, um, have a booth on the show floor and basically talk with industry leaders and other attendees about Pheasants Forever and our mission. Um, that was kind of the

6:34bulk of it. Um, but there was a lot of, there was a lot of high ranking officials there. Uh, the governor was there, um, the North Dakota director of North Dakota Game and Fish and the governor accepted a gift from the Petroleum Council and ConocoPhillips on behalf of the, or for the, uh, land and like, or the Legacy Initiative in North Dakota. And so- When you say accepted a gift, what does that mean? Basically, they're providing support for the, the governor's, uh, Legacy Initiative that,

7:07that funds a lot of new habitat work and access related work, um, on private lands in North Dakota. So, so do you, when you see a gift like this come from a company like a petroleum, right? So we're talking the oil company up there. Um, it's kind of the whole industry. Yeah. There was all sorts of oil companies and different, you know, all the various businesses in the oil, oil industry from parts to, you know, all the equipment, you name it. So do you feel like, why, why is it that they would

7:46be giving this gift? And is it any way to say, to kind of butter somebody up or anything? I, I think everybody wants to, everybody wants to get along. And I think it's a way, you know, a way to show support for, um, you know, positive things going on in North Dakota. There's, there's a lot of irons in the fire up there, a lot of good things with new habitat going in, uh, and there's a huge need for it, right? We've, we've seen drastic, uh, loss of grassland

8:18and CRP acres across North Dakota, uh, reductions in wildlife populations, reductions in access. It's all interconnected. And so I think when you have, um, folks at high levels really pushing on those topics, I think it, it raises awareness and it's neat to see, uh, you know, the various partners and business owners and industry, um, get behind those things as well. So. The reason that I bring that up is because certainly the oil industry has had an effect on the landscape,

8:49kind of like the agriculture industry has had an effect on the landscape, um, and not always in a positive way. Right. So, um, but, but I think the oil industry, uh, our friend Tyler Webster, who lives in Northwest North Dakota, he's talked about how the Hungarian partridge has really come back and he somehow ties that into oil in the fact that there are landowners receiving a lot of money and they don't have to then dig up their ground because they are able to financially support

9:28themselves based on oil instead of agriculture, which then leaves more habitat on the landscape. So in a roundabout way that has, it's kind of been a blessing to our favorite birds out there. Um, yeah. Yeah. So he credits the oil industry a little bit for the, the, the boom of the Hungarian partridge. Uh, let's, let's talk a little bit of news here and then we're going to get into the once in a lifetime tag, but I saw some news on Pheasants Forever's website. There was an

10:00announcement as we record this, it's actually May 28th. Um, but this announcement came out two days ago, May 26, over 92 million acres across the nation will be available for hunting and fishing. On May 26th, the department of the interior announced the proposed expansion of 1,450 new hunting and fishing opportunities on us fish and wildlife service lands across 111 stations in 32 States representing the largest expansion of hunting and fishing access in the history of the

10:36us fish and wildlife service. This announcement follows secretary Doug Burgum's secretarial order directing the department to remove barriers to hunting access designating DOI managed lands as open unless closed. Pheasants Reverend Quail Forever thanks secretary Burgum and director Nesvick for their work to increase access to high quality habitat for upland hunters said Ariel Weegard, Pheasants Reverend Quail Forever's vice president of government affairs. Today's announcement represents bold action to comprehensively expand access to our nation's public lands for hunting and fishing

11:13rather than incremental change. This is a win for wildlife conservation, sportsmen and women in rural communities. John, what's your take on this? That's some exciting stuff. And I know, I know that topic has, has came up in past years as well. Um, my general take is, you know, there's a lot of kind of funky regulations on some of our federal areas, um, that don't necessarily align with, say a wildlife management area right next door. And so I think, uh, you know, aligning those regulations,

11:48making more consistency, it just, it helps everyone. It helps with law enforcement. It helps with hunters and anglers that are using those areas. And so, um, obviously there's still a need for some protected areas. Um, so it's, it's not that, you know, we or others necessarily want everything open, every, you know, hunting everywhere. There's, there's benefits and refuges for sure. Um, and having protected areas for, you know, various bird species and other wildlife. So, um, that's my take.

12:20I don't, I don't know a whole lot else, um, on that specifically, but, um, yeah, it's great to see additional, you know, opportunities for hunters and anglers for sure. And this will be in a couple months when hunting season rolls around, right? Sounds like it. Do we know? So if, if you pull up your Onyx app and it'll tell you when you click on the property or touch a property and it'll tell you if that's open or not, right? Do we know if there's going to be, or maybe I should ask our

12:52buddy Ben over there at Onyx, if they're going to update the app to make sure that people know which properties are now open to hunting and which one remain closed? That's a great question. I would assume, you know, any change in designation of, you know, a closed versus an open area would be, you know, formally, you know, announced, you know, whether that's on the service website or, you know, state fish and wildlife agency atlases or Onyx. So I'm sure that's something they'll be, they'll be working on if there's

13:25changes like that. I mean, 92 million acres. That's, that's impressive, right? Yep. More opportunities that exist out there. Certainly then that's going to spread out potentially more hunters on the lands that we currently have. And I think that's a good thing too, obviously. Does that change who manages these properties or does it stay the same?

13:52I, my take would be to be under same management, just different, different regulations. Yep. Gotcha. Here's another announcement, which I think we can all celebrate. Pheasants Forever, the Nature Conservancy, the Minnesota DNR, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service team up to protect 1,900 acres in Clay County, Minnesota. Pheasants Forever and the Nature Conservancy announced they have protected these 1,900 acres of native prairie wetlands and restorable grassland in Clay County near Fargo Moorhead in Northwest Minnesota, a longstanding priority area for the conservation

14:26partners. This acquisition strengthens a growing network of conserved prairie in the Red River Valley. PF and TNC acquired the property using funds from the Outdoor Heritage Fund, which was created under the Clean Water Land and Legacy Amendment and approved by the Minnesota voters in 2008. The funding included two grants awarded to the Nature Conservancy and a joint grant to Pheasants Forever and the Minnesota Prairie Chicken Society. And there's more information on your website about that as well. But essentially, this 1,900 acres are going to go into different

15:01parcels. You probably know a little bit more about this, John, than I do, but most of it's going to be open to hunting. Some's going to go into a WMA. Some's going to go to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, but it's going to connect a bigger piece of land that's surrounding it, making a huge complex out there in the Northwest part of Minnesota, which is going to be vital to the prairie chicken and that part of the state, other upland bird species as well. Can you elaborate on that particular acquisition?

15:37Yeah, this is another good example of our, this is our Build-A-Wildlife area, and this is what we do. You know, we, we work with state and federal agency partners, other NGOs, in this case, TNC, to help facilitate land acquisition. And so this was a pretty, pretty innovative project involving a lot of partners. And, you know, oftentimes our acquisitions, you know, they end up in the hands of one partner, for example. This is a huge, this is a huge piece. And it's, it's a huge responsibility

16:07to manage moving forward. But having, you know, multiple partners step up and willing to take on land ownership and future stewardship was huge. Like you said, adding to an existing complex of key habitat in Northwest Minnesota, just not too far from Fargo. I actually, I worked a job up there doing radio telemetry on greater prairie chickens back in like the early 2000s. Yeah. And there was CRP all over the place and you wouldn't even recognize the place now. So seeing, seeing big wins like this

16:41are huge for a species like that, you know, in Minnesota, I, I looked up a stat the other day, I'll have to read it off here, but 18 million acres of tall grass prairie historically, less than 1% remains today. So these are, these are huge wins. I was going to say, I saw at the end of the article that it said 200 years ago, Minnesota had 18 million acres of tall grass prairie. And today, yeah, only 1% of that original prairie remains. Yep. That's, that's devastating when you, when you

17:13try to wrap your head around that. I mean, all you have to do is drive down the road in Western Minnesota and you'd see what it's all black. Well, there's some shoots of green coming up right now, but I mean, Oh gosh, could, could you even try to wrap your head around what that would look like? I guess, John, you probably can because you still have the, um, uh, the sand hills down by you. And that to me feels like, even though it's rolling hills, it's grass as far as you can see when you're in it, in the center of it. Yeah. I think that's probably what Minnesota once looked like.

17:47Yeah. The sand hills are about as pristine as it gets, but you know, I'm always amazed, um, done several, Oh, just travel through work through, especially the tall grass prairie is just such a diverse system. When you see remnant prairie that has never been broke. I mean, the amount of wildflowers, the, the insects, the, you name it, it was just such a diverse community. Um, so it's, it's definitely sad seeing a lot of that being have been, having been converted. But, um, fortunately, you know, we've had good success restoring areas as well. So

18:22again, great to see, uh, especially large blocks like this. I, I tried looking up, you know, this is probably one of our biggest acquisitions, um, that we've done at 1900 acres is a big chunk, uh, for the Midwest. So big win. 40 years sure is a long time to be in business. And that's exactly how long Waltons has been helping America's butchers, hunters, anglers, and families prepare their meat. That is quite a milestone. And to that, I say, Waltons, congratulations on 40 years in business to

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22:03I'm curious, and I'm thinking maybe some of our listeners might be too, how does this get initiated? Does somebody who lives in the area say, this landowner wants to sell and we have an opportunity here? So then he would call maybe a friend who's on the Pheasants Forever local chapter. That member calls somebody at the state level. I mean, what's the process look like to protect something like

22:35this, to buy something like this? It's pretty variable. And I will say, I mean, there's times when we see a property on the open market, we're able to identify and purchase. But the best scenario is when you have a landowner that cares. If you have that, you have confidence working with them that they can work within our timelines. And when you get into state and federal agencies, which are involved

23:07in these projects a lot, there's a lot of red tape. There's a lot of steps in it. It's usually a long process. And so if you have a landowner that wants to leave a legacy, that's really a huge first step because they're usually willing to work within those timelines to make it happen. But yeah, we have our local farm bill biologists that are working with landowners. They hear of stuff, chapter members. We have partners send stuff to us. So I mean, it comes in all, from all directions.

23:38Do you know of any big, any more big ones that are on the horizon that you don't have to name the names and states and locations. It's just, do you know of any more that are like, hey, this could be another big, big win coming? I don't know our, our total, you know, acreage of identified projects, but I mean, it's, it's thousands of acres, I think across 16 or 17 states in various, various phases. Some of that may be like the initial contact was made and others were, were a lot further along.

24:09So there's always like a, a major pipeline of properties and these projects are at various steps. Some, some, some fall through. And that's, that's the hardest part I would say is, you know, for every 10 projects that come about, maybe one of them comes to fruition. What's the biggest reason that would prevent it from coming, coming through?

24:35Great, great question. There's so many, there's so many reasons. Um, it could be sad. Some, sometimes it can be, sometimes it can be family that hears about, well, I heard, heard uncle Bob's going to sell. I'm, I don't agree with that, you know, and all of a sudden it falls flat or the landowner's timeline moves up because of some emergency within the family and they can't wait for two years. Um, they need the income, for example. Um, a lot, there's just, there's so many things that can poke holes in a project.

25:07Um, so when, when big ones come together like this one, it is a, it is a big deal. For sure. So you guys had a big hand in it. Obviously you partner with the nature conservancy, um, you know, the grants from the clean water land and legacy amendment, which did it just, if I, I believe we just approved to keep this, um, the outdoor heritage fund alive in Minnesota. I know you don't live here. I know you're in Nebraska, but did you hear this? That it continued? I'm not sure on that.

25:41Al, can you look that up? The outdoor heritage fund, the clean water land and legacy amendment to make sure, cause it was originally approved by voters in 2008 in our legislative session here in Minnesota. I believe they had, uh, some trouble working together to figure out what to do with that. And there was concern that all of those millions of dollars were not going to be available for this, but at the very last minute they approved it, I think. So you do a little digging on that and we'll verify that for our listeners, but that's a huge deal. Minnesota voters chose to put some money

26:17into a fund. And really this is where some of this stuff goes. I mean, they, there's a committee that decides where these dollars are allocated. Peasants forever applies for grants. Here's an example. We just are able to purchase this property and create, you know, you talk about the less than 1%. If we continue to do these little pieces, these postage stamp pieces, we continue to make a difference. And on top of that, when I think landowners, family members use that property,

26:54see it, see the effects that also has an impact on what they choose to do on their own land, because, Hey, you know what? That cornfield with the low area that seems to always flood out on us. Why don't we just, why don't we just put that in CRP? Why don't we just leave that in, in native grasses, plant something else there? Because I look at the property across this, on the other side of the fence and boy, does that sure look beautiful out there. And you know, if they don't see that, maybe it doesn't have the same impact on their next decisions

27:26and watching that big buck walk across it and the pheasants, turkeys, all of the good stuff that comes from it. So it definitely has an impact. And I think it's really important. Um, you were just in North Dakota. So this is a good, probably segue. Did you hear much about the current North Dakota elk tag for conservation and where it stands as far as how many tickets have been sold?

27:58Yeah. I don't know a total on how many there, how many have been sold. Um, but we are selling up to a thousand. So for, for listeners out there, uh, North Dakota game and fish has a special allocation lottery each year that NGOs, including pheasants forever, um, can apply for. And this year we drew one of these tags. So it's kind of interesting. You have hunters that are drawing tags. Now you have conservation groups drawing for tags, but it allows us to raise money, uh, for conservation. And so something we don't, we don't receive every year. Um, I can't remember the

28:32last one. It might've been like seven or eight years ago. Um, but ultimately a hundred percent of the proceeds from those ticket sales, one in a thousand chance at a North Dakota elk tag will go directly back into conservation in North Dakota, working towards our mission. Um, those tickets are a hundred dollars each. Um, and ultimately we'll raise, um, a hundred thousand dollars that will then be leveraged with other chapter dollars, uh, dollars from donors, other

29:04corporate partners to put, put more habitat on the ground. Um, for folks that, uh, live out of state, uh, if you may know this, but non-residents are not allowed to hunt elk in North Dakota. Uh, this particular tag is your one chance. Um, so non-residents are eligible to purchase one of these lottery tickets. It would be their one chance to hunt elk in North Dakota. Is it a bull tag? Bull or cow?

29:35I think it's either sex. Yep. Al, hit the hooray, uh, the crowd applaud button. There we go. There we go. Oh, by the way, um, I have to see, I have to watch a two hour long YouTube video to see if that, uh, Oh, you're going to watch the actual process? Well, that's what it says. You should do that on your own time. We don't have time for that right now. It said check here for the final vote, which was yesterday, but it's two hours long. I just,

30:09I kind of wanted to just look at the description and see if they said there, but I didn't want to click the video and have it see. But, um, the Senate, I think passed it and it went to the house or the house. The house passed it and it went to the Senate. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So back to the elk take once in a lifetime opportunity. This is a big deal. This is a great opportunity for somebody to experience something that you can only do once in your life if you're lucky enough to get drawn. Um, obviously it's a limited amount of tags throughout the state. Minnesota does the same thing. They manage their elk herd. It's a very small herd once in a lifetime opportunity.

30:44I've been applying for it for many years. Still have never been drawn. Who knows if I ever will be, I hope to someday, but this is probably a better chance once in a one in a thousand, which I know that doesn't seem like a lot, but if you think about how many people are probably applying for the tags and the fact that you would never be able to do this as a non-resident, it's a great opportunity. It's a great win for Pheasants Forever if you guys sell out and then turn that into even more habitat that hunters can go out and obviously pursue our favorite birds.

31:21How do they, because there's the way that it works, you don't just get to send the money. I think you have to connect with somebody, a Pheasants Forever representative, right? Correct. We have to follow kind of the state gambling laws, and so they have to either be purchased in person or through the mail. So folks that are interested and want more information, they can email us at ndpf at pheasantsforever.org, or they can mail a check or cash directly to Pheasants Forever at

31:55PO Box 7403 in Bismarck, North Dakota 58507. And those checks would need to be made payable to Pheasants Forever. The tickets will be on sale through June 24th. So the winner will be drawn at the Clays for Conservation event in Bismarck, and you don't have to be present to win. So yeah, and you mentioned one out of a thousand, you know, it doesn't sound like great odds. That's a heck of a lot better than what normal odds are. I can't. Do we know what normal odds are? I don't. Somebody

32:31was talking about that at the, uh, at the Petroleum Conference and, uh, yeah, it's, it's substantially better odds, one in a thousand. So. Gotcha. Um, your role in the conservation world has evolved over time. You've been with PF for how many years now? A little over three. A little over three. Well, for that, I believe when I hunted with you, you were working for the state of Nebraska, right? Correct. Yep. Gotcha. So I, I worked for Nebraska Game and Parks, um, for about 14 years in various

33:02roles. Um, I was a, a private lands biologist here in South Central Nebraska, where I still live for about 10 of that. And then I had kind of some various roles with coordinating our public access program, the open fields and waters program. I think I was involved with that when, uh, when we hunted together. Uh, and then the, uh, wheat stubble program is what brought us together. Yeah, absolutely. Yep. And then, uh, also did a short stint as our upland game program manager. So,

33:33um, um, through all that, I, um, you know, interacted with a lot of other, uh, especially state wildlife agency staff throughout the country at various technical committees and, um, work groups and things like that. And so it's been a, it's been a great transition coming to PF and having a lot of those ties, especially when we're talking about land acquisition or path that, you know, you're looped in directly with the state or federal agency almost every time on those. And so having, having those

34:06connections has been really helpful, um, in trying to move the needle for PF, um, and have us play a bigger role in public access. That's what was pretty intriguing about this role for me was, you know, having an NGO be able to step up and play that role, um, kind of pushing for more public access because it is important to our, super important to our membership. Uh, it's a growing concern. People need places to hunt. And, and you see that even within like our national strategic plan

34:39now specifically calls out increasing public access. So that is something we stand for, something we really, really push and as a priority. So permanent habitat protections manager, I'm guessing this is a new position. You weren't filling somebody else's role. Yep. Yep. So you kind of had to create it right. You, you were the first. Yeah, I was the guinea pig. It's, it's evolved quite a bit. Um, initially it was a lot more focused just specifically on fee title acquisition. Um, but I think with,

35:13with a lot of those ties to state agencies and having worked with our access program, it was kind of a natural, a natural, uh, fit to kind of pursue, uh, these path partnerships, uh, where we can help elevate, uh, state walk-in programs. Um, and that's, that's kind of been, I would say 50, 50 or maybe the bulk of my, my time is spent there now. We're going to get into path in a second, but what is over all of these other, uh, your journey in the conservation world, what is your greatest

35:45accomplishment? Do you think that you, if somebody says, you know, what are you most proud of that you've worked on in all these years in conservation? Boy, that's a, that's a tough one. Uh, I'm here for the tough ones today. Sorry.

36:00I think my view of that has evolved in the different roles I've had. So when I was a private lands biologist, it was really important for me to see that change at the local level and being able to work with all these private landowners and, you know, they recognize who you are and what you're trying to do. Um, that, that was a win. I think with, with the, the access coordinator position, it was, you know, taking our program in Nebraska to the next level, um, increasing our enrollment around a hundred thousand acres, um, forming new partnerships, et cetera. Um, I think, I think

36:36in my current role, I think probably the biggest win has been, uh, has probably been the development of our path program. Um, that was, we've had involvement with walk-in programs for a long time. Our, our biologists help, help promote and deliver those programs in several States. Um, but actually creating, uh, uh, an actual program around that, um, has been really neat and something

37:06I think has a ton of potential to grow even further. Um, there's just, there's so much opportunity out there. There's a need. Um, it's an opportunity for hunters that care about access to donate back to access. You know, they know that their dollars going to path are going to do good things and provide more places to hunt for them and their hunting buddies. So, well, and it keeps expanding. I mean, we talked right at the beginning of the show, you have this orange path sign behind your shoulder too. And the same one that I have, I got this one in South Dakota when we did a show

37:44out there announcing the path. Yep. And that was, I feel like three years ago now, something like that, maybe four, three years ago. Does that sound about right? Yeah. 2023. Okay. Yeah. Three years ago. And since then it has expanded last fall. It, it trickled into North Dakota, right? Where, where is path currently at? How many acres, how many States, uh, give us an overview and then

38:14we'll dig into it even further. You bet. Do, do you think we should, uh, I guess just give a little background on path and what it is. Um, so, so path stands for public access to habitat and that is kind of our organizational strategy to increasing access to private lands and landlocked public lands. Um, so this all, this all was framed up based on kind of an idea that started in, in Aberdeen, South Dakota, um, the Aberdeen Coalition, which I'm sure we've talked about a lot over the years.

38:49And there's really, it's a really unique scenario where, you know, local chapters were able to engage local business owners, other conservation groups to raise dollars for access that was used for an incentive to expand access around Aberdeen. And we looked at that and said, wow, that's a cool model. Um, and so, uh, we piloted a statewide path initiative in South Dakota in 2023. Um, that one kind of functioned similarly to Aberdeen Federation Coalition in that they offer kind of a one-time

39:22incentive payment to sweeten the pot for a landowner to sign up. Right. Um, and so that initiative started in 2023, we had some success there. Um, that led to a new initiative in Nebraska called the Nebraska Community Access Partnership or NCAP. And that one hit the ground running. And so when we saw this success and we had, you know, other states looking across state lines and man, we want that. We want to elevate our program. We want to want this thing to grow and bring other partners together. We thought

39:57we really have something here. And, uh, Onyx Hunt was a huge partner from the start, right? So they, they saw opportunity here. Um, they helped us initiate those, those initiatives in North Dakota, in South Dakota and Nebraska. Um, we got together with them and said, Hey, we got something here. Let's, let's make it nationwide. Let's expand to other states. Let's make this the real deal. And so they, uh, provided programmatic support to help us take that next step and create a national program. And so

40:33that kind of, you know, opened the, opened the doors to exploring new partnerships in other states. And so we quickly, uh, initiated three new initiatives this past year. Uh, one of which, like you mentioned, was in North Dakota. Another one was in Oklahoma. And the last one was in Michigan. And so each one of those is really kind of tailored to fit, you know, what those barriers are within

41:04that given state. Um, we all want more access, but ultimately, you know, funding is an issue. Staff capacity, finding willing landowners. Those are kind of the three biggest barriers to expansion of access programs. And we're really well positioned to help overcome those barriers. Um, but that's why you see things look a little different in each state because each state deals with different things, right? Um, in, in South Dakota, Nebraska, just sweetening the pot with these existing programs that had a lot of, uh, momentum. That's, that's what was needed to, to move the needle. Um, then we

41:40have a state like Oklahoma, um, that has kind of a much younger program, not as well-developed, had about 90,000 acres in it. Um, they were heavily reliant on VPA HIP funding through the farm bill. And so like many states, you saw enrollment do this over time and you saw, yeah, you saw coordinators come and go. You saw, you know, it just, there's no stability there. And that makes it really tough to say, Hey, let's, let's elevate your program. Let's double your program when they can't keep up with

42:13what they have. Right. So, um, we, we worked with them and they were looking for, for other ways to help fund the program. And ultimately dollars raised for Oklahoma path are matched with Pittman Robertson funds in Oklahoma at three to one match. And that bucket of money is used to put 10,000 acres acres of new OLAP or Oklahoma land access, um, program. Yep. Put more acres on the ground. Um,

42:44so that, that one's a little different, more like programmatic funding rather than a one-time incentive. Um, did I hear though last end of last hunting season that there was a potential that those funds would be taken away? Um, in Oklahoma? Yeah. No, they, uh, like many States are, you know, they're, they're dealing with, with what budgets they have to work with and VPA hip dollars come and go and Pittman Robertson dollars go up and down. And so it's,

43:15it's this constant mix and match of funds trying to make things work because if you're a landowner on the other end of this, you know, and you're told, Hey, we want to enroll your property. You're going to generate this income for allowing access. And the next year we say, sorry, we, we don't have money this year. You know, that landowner is not going to come back. Right. And so it's, that's a constant game that state agencies have to play is, is mixing and matching funds to kind of keep, keep on that path. Um, with, with our path program, we're really trying to be additive. Um,

43:49we don't want to just replace existing funds, you know, when PR goes away, we insert ourselves that, that really doesn't do anything long-term. And so we're trying to find solutions where, um, not only we can maintain enrollment, but we can, you know, increase enrollment because that's ultimately what hunters want. Right. Well, and they want good habitat to be on the properties where the funds are going, right. They don't want a plowed field when they get there just because they can walk on it. It doesn't mean that there's going to be any wildlife on it if there's not

44:21habitat. Right. So then if somebody signs up for it, let's say that it was a soybean field. Now it's path property. Do you guys plant grass? How did, what's the next step when somebody enrolls in it to make sure that there's wildlife on this? Yeah. We, we do several different things and it's, it's hard to talk generally across states because it's so different everywhere. Um, but just as an example, um, in South Dakota, we strive to, to only enroll the highest quality habitat and, and that

44:54usually corresponds with a landowner enrolling in CRP or re-enrolling in CRP where we know that habitat is going to be upgraded or planted and then maintained for 10 years. That gives us that security that the habitat will be there for that 10 year duration, um, which is what our incentive gets us in South Dakota. And that's not the case everywhere. Again, it's, it's so different everywhere. Are there some states that are just year by year? There are some, um, again, those states

45:26that rely really heavily on VPA HIP, that's what you see. You see one and two year agreements and that, that's pretty challenging. Um, states that, uh, you definitely find out really quickly what states have really prioritized private lands access when you start these conversations, just because they have diversified funding and they've brought in habitat stamp dollars. They brought in PR, they brought in Pittman Robertson to keep these programs at the levels they want them to be instead of riding that

46:02roller coaster, uh, just relying on one funding source. So to me, like Feasants Forever coming into this, we create one more bit of stability to help elevate enrollment. So we've seen some, some major gains. You, you asked about enrollment. Um, so I'll start in South Dakota with that. Um, we had a goal of, of 10,000 acres per year and we started this initiative in 2023. And in those first,

46:32what, two years, we enrolled 77,000. Oh, so I mean a huge, I, we hit the ground running there. Um, the initial intent was to enroll most things East river and we were targeting CRP, targeting crap, you know, pheasant related habitat here in, in the last year or so, we've kind of expanded that to include enrollments, West river as well. So some of those maybe aren't purely undisturbed habitats.

47:03Um, they might be grazed periodically or, you know, we try to ensure that there's still going to be cover cover out there that, you know, we sign up guys that, that are doing a good job grazing and also balancing the needs of wildlife. And so we can enroll properties West river for cheaper than we can East river. And so that allowed us to enroll in a, you know, beyond our, beyond our initial goals. So 77,000 for it, who's paying for 77,000 acres in that particular case. Um,

47:35it's largely on the shoulders of our chapters and donors. Um, so unlike Minnesota that we talked about earlier that has kind of that, uh, stable funding source with the land and legacy amendment, South Dakota doesn't have that. And so we don't really have any major grants we can go after. So it's really been a very grassroots, um, fundraising effort to keep, keep path alive there. Um, but I will say on X, um, was a huge supporter. So they, they kicked in a big chunk of funds the first

48:13year to let us hit the ground running. And we're still, uh, leveraging that with chapter and donor funds, uh, moving forward. So you feel, you feel strongly that this is going to continue. We're in a good spot. I do. Yeah. I, I mean, there's, there's a lot of support for the program, but we're always, we're always chasing funding. Um, that's the thing with an, with an NGO in general. Um, we're trying to pursue any and all possible funding. Uh, we're looking to, um, like in Nebraska, we have,

48:46we've secured multiple Nebraska environmental trust fund grants, uh, to support the NCAP initiative in North Dakota. We tapped into the outdoor heritage fund. Um, we've been working with a number of different partners, NWTF, for example, they've been a great partner. They're helping support path in all five States. Um, and, and there's a lot of other, a lot of other great partners involved that, uh, yeah, it just, we just got to keep pushing, you know, to, to keep the ball rolling

49:17and to make something that's sustainable. And that's, you know, when we think about where's the program going to expand and, you know, there's all these kinds of unknowns with funding. Um, it's really important to me when I have those conversations that we think long-term. And so is this something that's going to come and go, or is it something that we think we can sustain over time? And those are the ones we really want to dig in on and create something that, that is meaningful

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50:51wild pheasants on all of them. I know this because I've hunted several of these properties myself. I've seen those big flushes where the birds get up in waves and it's awesome. In addition to the state and federal properties, they also have the Aberdeen Pheasant Coalition properties in the area that are open to public hunting. When you look at a map of publicly accessible places to hunt for wild birds in South Dakota and you zoom into the Aberdeen area, you'll see what I mean. To learn more about Aberdeen's pheasant hunting opportunities and get a free hunting guide, head to HuntFishSD.com.

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52:52Yeah, I mean, your job title says Permanent Habitat Protections Manager. That means forever, right? You want something to last forever. A lot of these properties that PF buys, it's forever. And that's the goal, is to keep it that way, not five years, 10 years.

53:09Are there states on your horizon that you could, I know you can't announce anything until it's official, but are there some states where you feel like this is, we're feeling really confident that this is going to be added to this state soon? I think there's a number of states. I'll just leave it at this. There's a number of states, especially across the Midwest, kind of our core footprint. There's opportunity in almost every one of those states to add value and elevate those existing programs.

53:44What's going to put it over the edge to make it happen? Well, right now there's a lot of things up in the air. We haven't had VPA HIP funding. So that's funding authorized through the Farm Bill that helps support these walk-in programs, something that Pheasants Forever and others have advocated for every year. This past year in the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, they authorized $52 million to go towards BPA HIP. And right now there's a notice

54:18of funding opportunity out there and proposals are due June 8th. I might've mentioned that before, but that's first and foremost, you know, what people are pursuing right now. So I think once the dust settles there, we know kind of what states have to work with, then you really just have to to think these partnerships through what they're going to look like in terms of matching funds and how we're going to engage our chapters and what other funding sources are available within that

54:53giving state. All those things kind of have to come together for us to feel confident that we can move forward and create that sustainable partnership. You mentioned Farm Bill. It's May 28th right now. This episode is going to go out like June... 3rd maybe? Something like that. The Farm Bill has... June 4th. June 4th. Okay. Farm Bill currently is in the hands of the Senate, right? As it stands today. It was

55:24redrafted and it moved through the House and now we need the Senate to pass it. And what do they call it? Not rectify, but no, there's a word for it, right? Where they have to agree with what the house built and then they're going to put theirs through and then it's going to go to the president's desk. This is a huge deal for bird hunters. This is a huge deal for habitat in America. The Farm Bill is so complex, John. We could

55:59talk multiple podcasts about what the Farm Bill means. It's agriculture, it's food in America. In our world, it's CRP and habitat. But what's amazing is that there are people in Washington, D.C. that don't even know what CRP stands for, right? I mean, and they're working on this thing. That just tells you the percentage of what the habitat

56:31portion of the Farm Bill means in the eyes of somebody in Washington, D.C. There are a lot of people that know about it, but that really has to open our eyes as upland bird hunters here in America to know that there are people making decisions on this massive bill that have no idea the conservation impact implications of what the bill means and the language in there. And why then the value of having

57:05Pheasants Forever there? I mean, you talk about the Greyhound Act that was included in this, which would have changed how bird dog training could be done in America. Pheasants Forever was able to talk with people in Washington, D.C. to remove that language from the bill so that we could keep the Farm Bill moving forward, but take out unnecessary pieces of it that had very drastic long-term impacts on it. Yeah. Do you want to add anything else to where it currently stands and what a listener might be able

57:42to do right now, whether it's just simply reaching out to their senator to say, we want to make sure the Farm Bill passes? Because we haven't had a new Farm Bill since what year? Great question. I know there's been three extensions the last three years. So that puts it back early 2021 or two. I should know that and I don't, Travis. The most recently enacted Farm Bill was the Agriculture

58:15Improvement Act of 2018. 2018. There you go. Yeah. So things have changed since 2018, obviously, our landscape. But yeah, we need this new Farm Bill. It's a major deal. It's in the Senate's hands. Maybe a little nudge to your senator to say, please, please push the Farm Bill through with the current provisions included. Just to clarify, if somebody's listening and I'm wrong and they laugh at me because I'm wrong, that's just what AI said when I looked it up. That was the AI overview. So don't get mad at

58:46me if I'm wrong. Get mad at AI. Way to cover your backside now.

58:51Well, Travis, I think a lot is at stake. And I mentioned earlier about with access programs and a landowner seeing a program come and go, the same thing happens with CRP and other popular conservation programs like EQIP and CSP, things like that, that are truly a staple of conservation efforts across the country, right? And without that commitment to multi-years of funding,

59:21you're just riding by the seat of your pants the whole time. And so what this Farm Bill would do based on the language in the house, the house version, it would reauthorize CRP for a five-year period. That may not sound like a big deal, but it is. That gives you a concerted effort across five years that there will be CRP available, which is huge. The other thing from an Upland Bird standpoint, there are a number of continuous CRP practices out there. So we were kind of referring

59:56to general CRP, which that's where you deal with the erodibility index and all that. And things are ranked out. We have a number of continuous CRP practices that landowners can sign up for year round. They usually batch applications at various times, but they're usually enrollments for like special resource concerns. So when I think of continuous CRP, I think of like filter strips or riparian buffers or things like that. There's also the state acres for wildlife enhancement or safe,

1:00:29which you may have heard of. It's a continuous practice that states really shape how they want it. So Iowa has a pheasant specific safe program that is designed to meet the needs of pheasants. It has winter cover, nesting cover, food plot. That varies a little bit in each state. Some are targeting certain pollinators or whatnot, but it's a really important practice. This new farm bill that's been proposed would basically permanently put safe into that continuous CRP signup. So it would ensure

1:01:07that those high priority practices within CRP will continue to receive elevated incentive payments and cost share. That's a huge deal because those are some of the most important practices to creating birds that we want to, we want to hunt. So there you go. The general CRP signup has closed and we're waiting on announcement from the USDA, correct? Correct. Yep. Okay. But the continuous CRP is open year round. So if somebody wants to apply, what's the best approach? How do

1:01:42they do it? Yeah. If you have marginal acres or you have a stream that has some erosion or whatnot, there are, like I said, a variety of continuous practices you would be eligible for. The first step is stopping in at your local USDA office would have information on that. Or you can connect with one of our, we have 400 farm bill wildlife biologists around the country. Contact information for those is on our website, but get in touch with one of them. They can run through what your options might

1:02:15be and really tailor make that for your farm. Love it. Build a wildlife area. There are new properties proposed or potentially going to be added in the near future. I think you mentioned before we turn this on, you had 11 properties that you guys were targeting and maybe acquiring soon. Yeah. So I just did a quick query and in the, in the last six months, I believe we've closed on 11

1:02:47different properties. So they're at various stages of being, you know, purchased or transferred out to the long-term title holder, but that's roughly 3000 acres that will be permanently protected and open to public access. Different states, obviously. Yeah. The bulk of that was in Minnesota. There was a project or two in Wisconsin and Iowa. Um, those have been states we've been really active in lately. Gotcha. Um, what we'll finish it with this. Is there anything, uh, at Pheasants Forever Quail Forever behind the scenes that you can share that you guys are working on that hasn't made the news yet,

1:03:22uh, heading into the middle of the summer here and then upcoming hunting season? Can't think of anything off the top of my head. Um, the thing I might add, I know I, I touched in detail on, on kind of path enrollment in, in South Dakota. We'll have, you know, fall is always an exciting time of year. You're, you're getting ready for the hunting season. I'm sure we'll have some announcements about new acres opened up through path. So, uh, in addition to those 77,000 acres

1:03:53that have been enrolled over the last two years in South Dakota, um, we have over 57,000 acres opened up through NCAP in Nebraska. We have over 8,000 acres of new OLAP properties in Oklahoma. North Dakota's hitting the ground. They have roughly 5,000 acres of new habitat that'll be going in this spring that will open up. I think it's 10 to 12,000 new acres of plots, uh, this fall. And so those are just, you know, exciting things as we, as we turn the corner and start thinking about, uh, our hunting trips

1:04:27and, and chasing bird dogs this fall. Heck yeah. Big shout out to you and your team at Pheasants Forever. And of course, our friends at Onyx Hunt for getting the PATH program started because now we're talking many, many thousands of acres that we get to follow our bird dog in pursuit of wild birds. And that's a beautiful thing. Yep. I'm going to, I'm going to end our episode with this. One of my favorite social media posts every week is Pheasant Fact Friday. Also Quail Fact Friday, depending on which area you live in,

1:05:01if you're in pheasant country or bird country, but it's just really interesting information. Every single Friday, there's a post that I just, I read the whole thing. And that's kind of rare to actually stop long enough to read the whole thing, but it's, it's helping you understand what's happening in the bird's world right now. We are currently, as we record this, pheasants are sitting on nests all over bird country. And in about 10 days, roughly the 10th of June is like the peak

1:05:36of the hatch in pheasant country. But this particular post actually happened May 8th, Pheasant Fact Friday of May 8th. But I just think it's interesting. May is a month of egg laying and incubation for pheasant hens. With the onset of laying before the incubation starts, daily air temperatures become important. Temperatures above 92 degrees and below 35 degrees can destroy the unprotected eggs. Heavy rains can also slow egg laying. While walking through a field, you might flush a hen from her nest. The closer the chicks are to hatching, the harder it is to flush the hen.

1:06:12If she flushed when you were 40 to 50 feet away, she is in the first week of incubation. If she flushed 20 to 40 feet away, probably in the second week, if you had to almost step on her, the eggs are close to hatching. Also, listening to an egg can clue you in on how close the chicks are to hatching as they will start peeping three or four days before the hatch. So just think about if you're walking around right now out in a field and a hen flushes right at your feet, get out of there

1:06:48because she is ready to hatch those chicks and you do not want to disrupt that. Pretty interesting stuff. John, is there anything else you want to leave our listeners with before we sign off today? Very cool. I think the last thing for listeners out there that are interested in learning more about the PATH program or want to support, we have some great resources on our website. Go to pheasantsforever.org backslash PATH and we have tabs for each of the five initiatives. Explain a

1:07:21little more in detail about how the initiative works, how we incentivize new access, and how to get involved, how to support it. It's all right on the website. So encourage you to look there. Um, yeah, that's about it. There it is. And if you want to get that once in a lifetime elk tag, reach out to somebody at Pheasants Forever. They will direct you to the address if you forgot it already, because that was a few minutes ago. Appreciate you making time for us today, John, and all the work that you're putting in. A lot of pheasant hunters, a lot of bird hunters

1:07:54are going to appreciate that when they get to watch their dog walk up on point or flush a big old gaudy rooster out of the grass. We're going to be back next week with a new television show, Big Al. We're going to make an announcement. A new television show is about to hit there. Don't say anything yet. I'm not saying anything. You got to come back next week. It's weird that that's in two weeks. I know. I was like, next week. Wait, this goes out next week. All right. We'll be back then with another episode of The Flush Podcast.