Plan Ahead For Your Bird Dog

Introduction

0:00This episode of the Flush Podcast is brought to you by Onyx Hunt, Waltons, Hoxie Native Seeds, the Minnesota Horse and Hunt Club, HuntFishSD.com, Rufflin Kennels, Black Gold Dog Food, and by Game, Virtual Shooting Simulators. Today, we're talking about summer bird dog training and seminars with the one and only George Lyle. We'll help you find a good training system that works for you, your lifestyle, and your bird dog. We'll also talk about some of the mistakes that hunters make when they search for training options, especially when it comes to searching for

0:31advice on the internet. We'll also share some of our favorite hunting stories from many, many years spent in wild places.

Welcome to Flush Podcast

0:57Welcome to another episode of the Flush Podcast. I'm your host, Travis Frank. Big Al is our producer hiding behind the camera. You know who's not hiding behind the camera? Who's in front of a camera? That is George Lyle. He is our guest today, and he needs no introduction, but we'll give him one anyway. George is my bird dog training mentor and hunting buddy. We've hunted all over North America together. He's got the finest pack of pointers I've ever hunted behind. He's been training dogs for like 35 years, maybe 40 now, learning from the Smith family and training with them. He's

1:28been on this podcast and our television show more times than I care to count, but our viewers stay. It's still not enough. Welcome back, cowboy. Thank you, Travis. I feel like a good introduction for you. There's a lot of kind words. You're too kind. There it is. Oh, let it breathe, buddy. Let it play. But I'm gonna be where the lights are shining on me.

1:55Like a rhinestone cowboy. All right, that's enough. We don't want to get copyrighted. Oh, gosh, that's good. That's good.

Hockey Career

2:02Ah, George, if you were not introduced to bird dogs and upland bird hunting, what do you think you'd be doing with your life? Uh, I'd be a professional hockey player.

2:14Oh, my gosh. Although my skill sets weren't quite there. Yeah, he would have been like the great wall of St. Paul. Well, he, George played defense and I just have this vision from Happy Gilmore. Every time I think about George playing hockey, about when he took his skate off and went after a guy, like that's all I can think of when I think about you playing hockey, but I know you were an enforcer. That's right here. How many, how many hockey fights were you in? Uh, I don't know. Not proud of them, but.

2:46No? Enough. What do you mean you're not proud of them? I thought all hockey players are proud of them. I imagine George liked the defensive version of Marcus Foligno, just absolutely pounding everybody into the boards. Marcus is, Marcus is awesome. He's a big, he's a big meatball. There's some people out there that need a good whooping. On the ice, on a professional ice rink, you know what I mean?

Hockey Fights

3:07Right, so. I just had dinner with actually one of my college hockey buddies. Oh yeah? He's traveling, he's traveling, he's traveling west. We talked about that actually. The wild? No. So you're not going to tell us. Talked about us, talked about us being on the ice. You're not going to tell us about how many fights you got in? More than a handful. More than a handful. Now, we didn't, we, I, so I played at, at University of Wisconsin, Whitewater. And we had a blast. We had a great team. Great guys. We're still, still a great core after all these years.

3:40One team I did not like, and that was University of Illinois. Just didn't like them.

3:45So. They didn't like, they didn't like us, you know, they called us cheeseheads, they called us whatever. And their rink, their rink was brutal. It was in an old armory. And the, to get a sheet of ice in the armory, the stands were over the top of the ice. So if you, like, when you were facing off in the corner, they could, they could spit on you. They could. And would they? Every, every time you went to your bench, you skated under the fans. That's so weird. Oh, it's crazy. That George did not take lightly to being called the cheesehead.

4:18And I'm not even going to ask you the worst thing I've ever been called. There were other things that they, it wasn't names. It was like, don't touch my goalie. Well, I think, you know, like I, I watched these NHL games and right now the playoffs are going on and these guys, you got to be pretty sick and twisted to be out there on the ice thinking this is fun.

Hockey Injuries

4:40When you are getting absolutely pounded, beat into a wall. I mean, there's blood on the ice. These guys are throwing their bodies in front of a hundred mile an hour, frozen pucks screaming. I mean, they're breaking bones. They're playing with broken bones. They're playing with broken ribs, ankles, you name it. I mean, torn ACLs, ACLs, like, and think about it this way in major league baseball, they give these guys days off once a week. Sometimes they play, their schedule is very impactful, but I agree with you.

5:14Well, they might bat four times a game. They might have four or five balls hit to them while they're standing in the field over the course of nine innings. Alex, well, no, I was just going to say no comparison only. Well, I'm not comparing. I'm just saying the pitcher is the only one I understand for taking days off because that is really, really hard on your arm. But, like, Brodine, Brodine took that puck to his foot. To us, it didn't look that bad, but seeing how fast it went, like, he probably broke his foot.

5:44And that's why we're not going to see him for the rest of the season. It's just, and the skate acts as a cast, too. So people still play through broken feet. They do. It's insane. We, I went to, we took our family down to meet the wild players a couple years ago. And we're in the, like, kind of, like, the back family area or whatever with them. And they come out of the locker room and half of them can't even hardly walk. Yeah, Bogosian, after the Dallas series, couldn't even walk is what I was told. Yeah, yeah. And yet, once they put the skate on, they wrap them up so tight and they put the skate on and said, go out there.

6:18And they do. And these guys do. And they go play. I mean, hockey players are a different breed. They just are. I mean, and it's the greatest sport out there. Yeah. It is. It is. Absolutely.

Fishing Story

6:29I just never, the story I, and then we probably should talk about bird dogs and whatever else, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Blackhawks, I don't know who they were playing. Duncan Keith blocks a shot or takes a shot off his face. Yeah. Blood's pouring everywhere. Teak chiclets are on the ice. And he grabs his face. He skates to the bench. I don't even, I think he went down the tunnel. I think he missed one shift, maybe two at most. And he's back on the ice and they just, whatever, they, they stopped the bleeding. He's back on the ice. The guy just took a shot right to the face.

7:02That was like, was that Marcus Foligno in game three when he got hit into the ice, like his head smashed into the ice and he gets up, faces just all covered in blood. Oh, the first round series against Dallas? Yeah, against Dallas. He's going to try and fight Jamie Benn or, I think it was Jamie Benn that hit him. But he's face is just covered in blood. It was Duchenne. It was Duchenne, yeah. And his face is just dripping blood. It was so cool. And because it's such a vicious sport, you really learn to hate each other. By the end of it, in a series, in a seven game series, if it goes that long, I mean, you literally hate each other by the end of it.

7:34And then they go out and they shake hands. And they're buddies like, okay, we should say we're recording this on Tuesday right after game four of the Wild Habs series. Tough thing. But like Boldy went and checked his former Team USA team and then he won goal with Brock Nelson over the boards. Like his back was just... I'm mad about this right now. We have an avalanche super fan in our office. Oh yeah, Troy. This episode is going to air on Thursday, the 14th of May.

8:05Which will either be out or going to game six. Yeah. So we'll see. We'll see. It's Tuesday the 12th right now. George, if you weren't a bird hunter, you'd be a professional hockey player. And I'm so glad you're a bird hunter because you and I definitely have made some memories. Pretty sure I hit a higher tier of dog training and bird hunting than I did in hockey. How many years have you been training? I mean, I keep throwing out the number 35. Yeah, somewhere in there. But we've been doing this for so many years now that I feel like it's got to...

8:36At some point, I'm just going to move it to 40 and then... I don't know. Am I right? Probably more like 40, but I don't want to say it. It's more than 40 years of dog training. Oh, no. It's right in there somewhere. Well, judging by that white hair on your head, it could be more than 40. You don't need to talk about that. It could be 45 at this point. I don't make fun about all your hair. I don't have any. Oh, his hair. Chest hair. Look at this flow. Yeah, you're really styling here.

Fishing Opener

9:04Okay. Opening day just came and went here in the great state of Minnesota. And I'm not talking hunting opener. I'm talking the fishing opener. George, have you been fishing yet this year? No. No. No. Um, I have, and we just have this tradition, Alex, that every year on the opener, we have a giant, it's about, well, it's the giant rappel, a lure that you can hang up in your, you know, cabin or whatever like that. And we've turned it into our family fishing opener trophy.

9:36So I take all the kids out and my wife and whoever catches the largest walleye gets their name written on the trophy. And so this is year five of doing it. And it was so windy out there. It was cold. It was very windy. And, but the tradition lives on. I mean, I remember as a kid going out on opening day and it would be snowing. I mean, it was always miserable. And, and my, I remember my dad, grandpa saying, well, that's God's way of protecting the fish

10:06because there's 500,000 people out there on the water. Opening day. It's special. There's traditions. At least you don't get seasick. I imagine it was probably, there were probably white caps when you were sitting out there on night, but a Tonka. Yeah. We're not out at sea, Al. Come on. But it was so windy. It is windy. So anyway, I've got all these kids. We've got knots. We broke a rod. I mean, like. Can I ask how you broke a rod? Yeah. Good question. I think too many kids stepping on rods. I don't know. We broke the rod tip. All of a sudden, my nephew who had never gone out before, never caught a walleye.

10:37And so my goal was so, I just wanted him to catch one. And so he sets the hook, battles on, all of a sudden line snaps. And I'm like, what happened? I don't. He's like, must've been a Northern. I'm like, no, it wasn't. Because it broke way up, way up away from the hook. And while he's battling that, my line gets caught in the trolling rotor. And that breaks. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And then I look at the rod. And the rod tip is broken.

11:08So that's what cut the line. And I'm thinking, oh, it was his walleye wanted it so bad. I want to go back. I want to go back to. Hold on. Big algae. Okay. Hold on. It gets worse. This is just after my daughter, eight-year-old daughter, she's battling a walleye. And it's coming up right by the boat. And my son, my oldest, is going to net the fish. And he goes in with the pretty, like, I mean, the walleye is just sitting there.

11:43And I'm like, scoop it up. Scoop it up, buddy. And he kind of just sort of puts the net there. The hook grabs the net. The walleye shakes its head. And the walleye slips away. I'm like, dude, all you had to do was just scoop it up. Scoop it up. Right? So I've kind of given him a hard time. And I'm like, I don't know if he really wanted her to catch this fish or not. Because, you know, he's not had the trophy yet. And he told me. He's experienced. Oh, yeah. And on the way there. So I may have helped my young daughters.

12:13We're talking four years old at the time. She won the first year we did this. She was four. I may have set the hook and then let her reel this fish in. But she caught the first winning trophy fish. Second year as well. And then Weston's like, Dad, I'm pretty sure you've had a hand in everyone that has won the trophy. And he doesn't accept my help because he's the oldest. He's all trained in. Ready? Ready for action. Which, by the way, Tuesday night, fishing league tonight. Let's go. Let's go. Okay. And it's perfect outside, too.

12:44It's not. It's really windy again. Anyway, we'll catch fish. But so then like two seconds later, after I'm giving him a hard time, he sets the hook. And he's got a big one. He's got a seven pound walleye, maybe eight pound walleye. And I can just see in his eyes. This is the champion fish. This is the trophy right here. And I extend the net handle and I reach out to go scoop it up rather than wait for him to bring it closer to the boat. And I knock the fish right off his line.

13:18I almost just jumped in and said, I'm out of here. Like, I could not have felt worse. I could not have felt worse, George. I am telling you, he was so mad. He didn't even want to look at me. And I don't blame him. And I apologized up and down. And this is after I just ripped him pretty hard for knocking his sister's fish off the line. Wow. We still don't have a walleye in the boat, right? This is quite the calamity. It is quite the calamity, right? And so I'm thinking, I ruined the fishing opener.

13:49I just ruined the fishing opener. And so he's got tears at this point. I looked at him and there are tears rolling down his cheek because this was his chance to finally win the trophy. And I knocked it off the line with a horrible father, right? And an hour goes by and now we broke the rod. And his nephew breaks the line. My line's in the troll motor. And I'm like, this is just an absolute tradeback. This is an absolute nightmare.

14:21Let's just go in and try it again next year. Anyway, he's like, I'm going to try a leech under a bobber. I'm like, okay. And we haven't been fishing that way. I go, I wouldn't do that. And he goes, I'm going to try it anyway. I said, it's not going to work here. Three minutes later, I look over and he's battling a walleye. And he goes, told you. And so he's got to fish in. Now he's starting to feel pretty good. And little sister hooks into one. It's bigger than his. We measure it out. He catches another one, even bigger.

14:51He wins by a quarter of an inch, George. And the crowd goes wild. I'll get to hear the soundbar. The crowd goes wild. Crowd goes wild. Yes! Sorry, I had to find it. Yeah. Yeah. And we really did. They drew a crowd. Other boats saw the excitement. Anyway, we kept enough walleyes. We had a nice fish fry. The tradition lives on. Weston is now this year's reigning champion. He's got his name forever on the family trophy.

15:24And another fishing season is here. So that was my latest, greatest outdoor story. George, what were you giggling about earlier in the story? I was going to say Big L. The professional Travis Frank. Fisherman extraordinaire. Puts not someone else in the boat, but he put his line in the trolley motor. That's just the epitome. And knocked his son's fish up. Oh, yeah. Well, we hadn't heard that part of the story yet. But I was just like, wait a second.

15:55I seem to remember there just being an article by a really popular fisherman in Waconia that just got written. Okay, there's more to this story. So there's a whole pile of people out in this area. But I've got a couple little secret spots. All right. I've only showed a couple of people these secret spots. George, have you been showing these secret spots? Because I haven't. No, my father is one of these people that I, he knew where I was going. In the wind, I'm trying to get lines and stuff ready for my kids.

16:27I'm heading with the trolling motor after grabbing something from him out of his boat. We got out at the same time. What does he do? He goes and cuts us off. My dad. I've got, I'm the only adult in the boat. And two of his fishing buddies. And what does he do? He cuts us off. I had to go find a different spot. It's foreshadowing. I know. This is the first thing that happened. For you knocking the walleye. I know. This is my day, the whole thing. And I'm thinking, what are you doing, dad? Like, I'm out here with a ballload of kids, right?

17:01And he cuts us off and he calls us and he's like, how's it going? And this is right after, I don't remember what happened, but we didn't have any in the boat yet. And he's like, how's it going? And I'm like, not so good. He's like, oh, we're slaying them over here. And I'm like, yeah, what were you doing cutting us off? He's like, whoa, I didn't know if you were. I'm like, what are you doing cutting us off? I'm trying to give these kids a great experience. Oh, gosh. Anyway, fishing is great. Hunting is great. George.

Favorite Hunting Memory

17:31Yeah.

Favorite Hunting Memory

17:31What is your favorite hunting memory? My favorite hunting memory is the first time I went grouse hunting. And I probably told this story a couple of times, either on the TV show or this podcast. But my dad taking me out grouse hunting for the first time in northern Minnesota.

17:50It was just the smell of the woods. My dad teaching me about the woods, how to walk through the, you know, how thick the grouse woods are. I was probably seven years old. Yeah. Awesome. Were you carrying a gun? I was. What was a gun? I think then I had my, I might've been eight because my first one was a 410. So I had my side-by-side 20 gauge. Did you get one? Bird flushed. I went up like this and it was kind of like on a hillside. I could take you to the exact spot.

18:22It's out by our cabin.

18:25And I just remember not being sure exactly where my dad was, so I didn't shoot. And then my dad was like in a safe position. He goes, why didn't you shoot? And that's, but I just remember the whole thing. It was awesome. That, did it interrupt at your feet? Yeah, pretty close. Yeah. Within 10 yards. Knock you back a little bit? Oh yeah. What is your, the thunder of that bird and just, yeah, I just remember like it happened yesterday. And that was a long time ago.

18:57I'm not, I'm not your age. Yeah, I know. We talked, we established that already. I'm not, I'm not 28 anymore. I feel like, I feel like it, but yeah. Anyway, you look great, by the way. Thanks.

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21:20Because let's be real, we don't deserve great dogs. But great dogs, they deserve a Roughland. Visit roughlandkennels.com today and build your version of the ultimate travel system before your next flush. Here's a scouting tip that might just help you find a few more wild birds. First, grab your phone and then open up the OnX Hunt app. In the bottom right corner, click on the 2D button and then select 3D. Then place two fingers on the screen of your phone and slide them up together at the same time. After that, zoom into a property that you've hunted before or one that you've never been to and take a look at the terrain in 3D.

21:53I bet you'll see a few nooks and crannies that will hold birds out of the elements. I bet you'll see the land in a dimension that you never thought possible. These are the details that matter when you're putting miles on the truck and on your boots during a hunt. OnX Hunt is the ultimate tool for us bird hunters. It shows our position on planet Earth, land boundaries, land topography, burns, forests that have been logged, weather, and a whole bunch of other features that will make you a better hunter. If you've never tried the OnX Hunt app, then you can download a free 7-day trial to help you understand why hunters like myself simply can't hunt without it.

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22:34Okay, so then what was your first memory with a hunting dog?

First Memory with Hunting Dog

22:40First memory with a hunting dog is probably, well, there's two memories. So, same dog, but two memories. My first, like, real hunting dog was a golden retriever. We moved to Virginia, and we were dove hunting. And that dog just going out and getting the birds, and the birds flying everywhere, just having a great old time. And just that whole experience of working with the dog, you know. And then, fast forward, I think, two years, we went back to Iowa, to where my folks are from, and went pheasant hunting.

23:21Same dog, that flush of the pheasant. The dog worked in the pheasant.

23:26Yeah. What was the name of the dog? Yeah. Bear. Bear. Gotcha. So, what do you think really stood out to you about the dog and the hunting experience? Because, obviously, something in your brain has clicked with these two things. I mean, our listeners, obviously, have their own stories, too. But at some point, something happens where it's like, I can't get enough of this, and I just want to invest a ton of time into this. And so, I think it was that golden, I know it was the golden retriever, because previous to that, we had a dog named Whiskers.

24:03Whiskers was this terrier, mutt, whatever. She probably weighed about 25, 30 pounds, say, 35 pounds. And we lived outside of Minneapolis, and when I first had this dog, and she never listened. She did whatever she wanted to do. She ran away. It was, you know, it was subdivision, right? House, house, house, house, house. And I was just so worried about that dog getting run over or getting hurt.

24:36But that dog had a thousand lives. But never, you know, just go through traffic right down the street. People would get out of the way. She would lay down in the middle of the street, take a nap there. And everyone knew she'd be laying there, so she never got run over. But caller never came. Go with you. Didn't want to go with you. You know, on her, she would on her own terms. And so then the golden retriever came along, and he listened, and he went with me. We hung out, and he retrieved stuff.

25:09You know, I had him. We had a pond in Charlottesville, Virginia. We'd hunt ducks and geese. And the dog listened, and it just was like, wow, we had a partnership, you know? And it's that partnership that said, I want, this is something I want to do. You know, did that dog that wouldn't listen, would it always come back on its own, or did somebody bring it back? Did everyone know, like, ah, this is the Lyle dog, you know, got to bring it back. And they knew where it would end up, or did it come back on its own?

25:40Whiskers would just come back on its own. My dad would be like, you got to stop worrying about her. She's fine. Can we just talk about how great a name Whiskers is for a dog? Oh, you should have seen her. Oh, she was just a scruffy, had this scruffy face. You could barely see her eyes. One time, my nana loved making pickled beets. So we're up at the cabin, and she put her, she did a whole pickled beet thing, and they were out on the deck on the picnic table cooling. And then she went out there to get them, to bring them in, to have them for supper.

26:14Or something like that. And the bowl was like, you washed it. There wasn't any pickled, you know, there wasn't any beet juice in there. And all of a sudden, around the corner comes Whiskers. And she's kind of a blondish kind of dog. And her whole head was like, you know, a dog cuts their tongue and blood's everywhere. And they're like, you're like, oh my gosh, what happened to the dog? And it's like one little cut in their tongue, but they bleed like he, no one's, this dog was just covered head to toe with beet, red beet juice.

26:46And my nana was so angry, but she couldn't be, because the situation was just so funny. Oh my gosh. That just reminds me of all this time and effort I put into making an elk steak. I've got these steaks marinating. I'm going to come up on the grill. I fire up the grill. They're sitting on the countertop. I go in the other room. And, you know, it's Sunday evening. We got steaks for dinner and everyone's excited.

27:18And I just go in the other room for a minute and I don't know what I was doing. And I come back and that plate is just empty. And they're sitting in the middle of the kitchen, licking her lips. It's my dog with this look on your face. Like, I don't even care what you're going to do. It was worth it. Hammered monster back straps like big. She had easily three pounds of steak that she'd just eaten.

27:48Because I think there were three of them on the counter. And there was nothing left but a little bit of blood on the plate and just licking her lips. George, what happened to this beautiful dog you trained so well?

28:05A little bit. Okay, what is it? You know what? You know what? You know what that shows? It just shows, like, you know, the boundaries and discipline and all that. But sometimes it's like, well, I think I'll do this on my own and I'm going to make the right choice. Because I'm a dog and there's a piece of meat. And I'm a carnivore and I'm going for it. Well, and that actually, I mean, you think about when we train these dogs and how the drive to find the bird is so strong and how much they probably want it.

28:41But yet they know I need to stand here. I can't move, even though it's right there and how bad they want it, but they have it in them to stay eventually when they get to that point, right? They have it in them to stand there and wait. They know that they need us to be a part of this before they get that bird in their mouth. But how bad they want it. And also, how many times when you thought about something growing up or even today where you're like, I know I shouldn't do this, but I'm just doing it anyway.

29:12And I'll pay for the consequences. And that is exactly what that dog did when she's like, I know I'm not supposed to eat dad's steak. It's too big and there's nobody around. I'm doing it anyway. I don't even care. Right. I don't care. Right. What is your favorite adventure you've ever been on, George?

Favorite Adventure

29:31Favorite adventure I've ever been on? Hunting adventure. Okay.

29:38Boy. Because I guess I'm kind of enjoying some of these stories down memory lane here. Well, they're great stories and everything's just spinning in my head. I know. Well, that's the thing about, we've been on some good ones over the years and I'm not saying I was a part of any of your greatest ones, but I, you know, like. But he's saying you should make sure to tell a story. No, no, no. No, I, I'm with you. I'm like, we've been very blessed in life to be able to go on some really great adventures. And sometimes when people ask me that, like, what's your best story? And I'm thinking, gosh, I don't even know.

30:11Like we had the fishing opener last week. And so I did a live news in the, in the morning for one of the local stations and they go, what's your best fishing story? And, or like, what's your best catch? I'm like, oh gosh, I was on the spot. It was live and you don't have much time to think. So you just like, I'm like, honestly, I'm already looking for the next one. Like, I don't really look back too often. I'm always wanting, and there's a lot of great ones out there. I think a fisherman and a hunter, like we, we just want the next one.

30:41Right. But sometimes it's kind of fun to think back on, on some of the great ones. Absolutely. I thought you would have said, well, it wasn't really my catch. It was George Lyle on Lake of the Woods when he had this 50 plus inch muskie on for about that long.

30:57Alex, you would have been embarrassed for George if you'd have been in the boat with us. We knew this mama was there. I'd seen her. She was huge. I'm like, we're going to circle back on her. The moon is right. Everything is right. George, this is going to be your, you're going to be in infamy. All these people are going to watch you. They're going to tell legends about you. The legend of George Lyle on Lake of the Woods. I mean, it's, the story is too good. He goes, he makes the cast, the fish grabs the bait. And he had the weakest, softest, limpest, limpest hook set I have ever seen.

31:34I mean, my, my grandma could set the hook harder. There's more to the story. My four-year-old daughter could set the hook harder. The fish shakes a couple of times and it's gone because it never got the hook set. Oh, I had them.

31:50Until you didn't. George, they would have named constellations after you. That would have. Yeah. There's more to the story when you got a, you know, a lefty holding a right-handed rod. But anyway, we'll go into that. Okay, that's fair. That's fair. I had to switch hands. I was, I was reeling like this and I'm used to setting like that. It was a mess. All right. I messed up. Yeah. You should have held it upside down. And reeled backwards. Yeah. Like some, anyway, that's like dog training.

32:20It's like, why are you holding the rope like that? Anyway, you know, Travis, I almost want to say the adventure part and hunting tied together. There's just a handful of places you and I've been and it seems like it's an adventure because we're going to new places and we don't have a lot of, you know, it's not like we scouted the area. So I would say up in the Lake of the Woods was not only was it a great hunt, but it was a great adventure. I mean, Lake of the Woods, there were a couple iffy spots like, wow.

32:58So, you know, when you're going out on a boat and then you're on Lake of the Woods and it's rough as it was, whatever, but just, you know, getting out there. It's pretty darn cool. And what's around, like you said, what's around the next corner. So I would chalk up some of those, um, the hunts we've been on, uh, Lake of the Woods, going all the way to Alberta, going to Oklahoma.

33:26Wyoming was pretty good too. I think Wyoming was up there. Wyoming, when we, when we, uh, did the, you know, we, we hunted three species and we got to the chucker part and that got really Western. I thought it was a fun adventure, adventure going to Kansas City and playing trivia.

33:46Okay. All right. That was pretty cool.

Worst Hunting Experience

33:50What's your worst? Cause there's gotta, if you have best, there's always a worse. Just think about as long as we're, we're letting people dig into your history a little bit here, George, what's your worst hunting adventure that you've ever been on or your worst hunting experience? You know, I think, I think if I, it was like, just like almost unsettling, like, Hey, we shouldn't be doing this. Not, not me, but it's like the, it was duck hunting actually.

34:23And you know what happens when you're duck hunting and you're duck hunting in public areas. And then people like think it's theirs and you got there before them. And it's like, you just have this conflict. It's like, we're, it's almost like that hockey game, right? How do those guys shake their hands after just 60 minutes of just pummeling each other? You're out in that duck marsh and this was on the Mississippi river and you show up and you put all the energy into it and you got all the gear and you show up on time, but someone else doesn't.

34:53But they think, Oh, well, this is where we were going. So that's our spot. It's like, it's public area. This isn't your spot anymore. I didn't know you did. I didn't pull up and there was a sign. Hey, this is Ralph's hunting territory. You know, I mean, I wouldn't know I'm making that name up, but anyway, it's just like, just there's so many places, you know, actually grouse hunting. I'm in the middle of a, of a 1 million acre woods in Northern Wisconsin. It wasn't a million acres.

35:25And all of a sudden I go out hunting and I hear a dog bell and then I hear shot and I'm, I'm working the, I'm working the cover. Right. And I'm heading the direction where I can hear a dog bell. I hear someone, you know, yelling to their dog, yelling at their dog. I hear gunshots. I'm like, what the heck? And I'm like, well, they're out ahead of me. So I'll just cut back to the truck. I pull it, I go back to where my truck is parked. These folks are parked 10 yards from my truck.

35:56So you're saying you were hunting there first. You didn't know that they would soon. Oh, I've been, I've been in the, I've been in the woods for, I've been hunting for an hour and a half. But I'm working my way back to my truck and I've still got another probably hour of hunting ground to go hunting. And in a million acres and the woods are everywhere, you could literally back down the road, go back down the road a half mile, mile, still have great cover, but you park right next to me.

36:27And then you hunt in the same cover I'm hunting, that, that puts a sour, that puts a sour taste in my mouth. There's just, there's places to go. Yeah. Well, obviously hunting etiquette is, is something that, um, I don't know if it gets passed down from generation. It might, where some hunters learn. I always tell people, um, the story about one time, I think we were in South Dakota. And I think I've told that on this, a couple of different times on this podcast about hunting just a public piece of land out there and, um, some really rude hunters.

37:09And they, when we interacted there in the field, they were just being jerks and, you know, kind of similar to what you're talking about. We were out in this area and I just remember being overly nice to them, even though they didn't deserve it. Yeah. But there was a young kid that was watching this interaction that was with them. And afterwards, the people that were with her like, why were you so nice to those guys? They were jerks.

37:40I said, well, there's a young kid in that hunting party with them. And there's a chance that maybe he's going to decide if he wants to be a jerk, like the people that he was walking with, or he could be kind in spite of whatever was going on. And so I wanted to give him that option. I wasn't obviously interested in any sort of interaction out there in the field, but I was like, you know, it does happen. You will sometimes come across people and it's just a reminder that there's always somebody watching, you know?

38:15I was just, if you take the high road, you're never in the ditch. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, let's get, we've been talking. And that's everything, everything in life. If you always take the high road, dance like, like nobody's watching, you know, always do act as a act. We just had mother's day. Act as if your mother's watching you. What would your mom do? Right. Oh gosh. I mean, in this day and age too now with the amount of video cameras everywhere, it's unbelievable how much is captured everywhere we go to the point that I think it's a bit much.

38:53I want to escape technology, even though I'm immersed in it every day. And here we are talking about it. Every week we got to put a podcast out every week, you know? And sometimes I think, what can I do? What can we talk about? How can I help people? And you're my best mentor.

Dog Training Seminars

39:09Um, you have taken me under your wing. I've learned so much from you over the years and, and I think it's translated on this show and people keep coming back because we try to give them information that they can apply in life too. Um, so obviously thank you a million times over for everything you've taught me and everybody that reaches out to you, you make time for George. Um, and I know that everyone that has received some of your wisdom is grateful for it and people want more.

39:41And that's why people always ask for more George on our shows because you, your dogs deliver. They see it and people want that. That's what I've always wanted too. Um, what do you think makes a good dog trainer in a person? First of all, I just want to say thank you, Travis. That was very kind. Very kind. Um, patience.

40:12What brings out the best in people and around their dogs? Patience. Yeah. Um, and, and, and I'll tell you stuff, clarity, clarity and consistency.

40:25If you have clarity to your dog and you're consistent, I don't care if it's a Chihuahua or what do we have? We have a, we have a King Charles, Cavalier, King Charles or Cavalier or King Charles Cavalier now that we got Kinsley for her 13th birthday. And, uh, it's just, yeah, I don't care what kind of dog you have, clarity and consistency. You can train any dog. You can train every single dog. And I've said it for many years on this show.

40:57I think when people say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, I think that's just laziness. It sure is. Yep. There's, there's like five things, you know, leadership, structure, boundaries, mental stimulation, and physical stimulation.

41:15If you provide that to your dog, um, whether it's six months, whether it's eight weeks old or eight years old. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um. We do it all the time in our seminars. People show up with older dogs all the time. Right. Speaking of seminars, you guys have a few coming up. What's your schedule this year for your dog training seminars and where are they at? So we have, um, we're shifting gears a little bit and I think, uh, people should get really excited about this.

41:45Um, we are going to, before we've had phase one, phase two seminars and everyone's asking about the next step. Um, and everyone shows up to phase one and phase two wanting that phase three, or they want to work birds, right? We all want to work birds. We want to be at that next level and to be brutally honest with you, 98% of the folks aren't ready, but we're going to give them, we, at, with the method, dog training seminar, our motto is meet the people where the people are at.

42:18Okay. If the people's mindset are, here's where I am, this is where I think I am at home at the top, my dog can do it. We're going to give them what they're asking for. So, uh, August 29th and 30th in, um, Orfordville, Wisconsin is Blondhaven Hunt Club.

42:38And we're holding it at Blondhaven, uh, for a couple of reasons. One, there's facilities and we'll talk about right now what you need to be really looking for ground to work your dogs. I mean, right now we got to do, you do yard work, right? Cause we're not allowed to be out on wild birds right now. Um, excuse me. Um, so Blondhaven is a hunt club. Well, right now they're closed. Well, they're going to take it to the next level and they're going to offer their grounds to folks that want to come out and work their dogs.

43:09They're going to have training equipment. They're going to have pigeons. They're going to have backing dogs. They're going to have bird launchers. They're in the infancy stage of building this. So we're going to host a, uh, phase one, phase two will be on the first day to familiarize everybody. If you've been through phase one and phase two of the method, awesome. But we're going to fast track right to phase three and get into, get into the, into the ditch, so to speak. And, um, be working on with birds and doing all the bird things everyone wants to do.

43:45So we're going to launch right into phase two. It's going to be a dog training, dog handler seminar. What do you think is going to happen when you go right into phase three? Be honest. What's going to happen? Uh, probably some epic failures. What is that going to look like? Uh, people won't be able to get their dog off the truck and handle for them. Uh, same thing that happens at phase one. It's like, yeah, my dog come in and out of a dog box. And what do we see? You put your hand on the dog door and that dog's already bouncing. Off the, off the, off the door.

44:17Well, that's not a dog that's going to be willingly accepting training. So that's what we're going to see. But it's what people want. We, we, we know it because we're having a dog handling seminar and, uh, at Jordan Wells kennel, uh, in, out in, uh, Connecticut. And it filled up immediately, immediately. It's all full. So sorry, folks, we can't, you know, that date time is coming on. So we said, all right, let's, let's jump right into it. So we'll, we'll be patient with folks and, um, but our end, our end game is give them

44:52what they want. And that's a dog handlers, dog handler seminar. Do you think people, do you think people can understand and learn online versus in person? I mean, the value of going to one of your seminars, if you, if you, um, go to not only your seminars, but like the Huntsmith seminars or other dog trainers that hold seminars, there's some legends out there. You guys are in the legendary class with them.

45:22Um, and I've been to some of these seminars and seeing it is so unbelievably valuable to watch dogs and, and to get into their brain and understand how they need to learn because you're with somebody who has that much confidence and experience to be able to tell you what's going on with your dog and how to get there. But you know, like there's a lot on the internet, George, there's a lot out there. They're, I don't know, I don't know what to believe anymore on the internet and that applies to dog training too.

45:54I saw it on the, on the internet. I saw someone do it. So it must be true. Right. I just watched a clip of a person working a dog on a woe post and it couldn't have been the farthest thing from what you should be doing. It was, it was sending mixed messages to the dog. He wasn't using the equipment, right? He wasn't sending the right message. So back to your, uh, original statement there, there is nothing like being in the trenches at a seminar, hands-on.

46:27Think about everything you do in life. This, you can talk about it all day long until you, till you get in and you're in there with your dog and doing these things and, and learning from your dog and helping your dog learn and you're the one holding the rope.

46:44It's yeah. It speaks volumes. And there's, in my mind, there's, there's not a better dog trainer in, in the, certainly in the United States than Jordan Wells. So if you can get to one of our seminars, do it. Um, you will thank yourself. And again, I don't care if you have a bird dog or you have a, just a house dog, the relationship you're gonna, you're gonna have is just gonna be so much better. And the dogs can be happier. You're going to be happier. You're, you're going to get rid of so much frustration.

47:14And even if you don't have frustration, let's say you don't have any frustration and you have a great teammate, right? You're going to take it to the next level. And that's what we're, our seminar is about that 1%. That's what we're after. We're all striving. Sonny Picard, Jordan Wells and George Lyle is striving to be the one percenters. We strive that every day in life. I strive to be the 1% every second I'm with my dogs. And when I'm with my dogs, I am giving them my 100% attention. I don't care if I'm just going to let them out.

47:45They're coming out of the kennel. I do everything with consistency, clarity, and it's that way every time I interact with my dogs. There is no confusion.

48:00They know you are the pack leader. There's no doubt about it. Yeah. And they, they, dogs love a routine. So they're used to the routine. We have a routine. I'm comfortable. They're comfortable. They're in a happy mindset. I'm in a happy mindset. We all get along together. There's no like, there's just no frustration. And you can learn that at our seminar. And again, you're going to see, yep, it's really easy to pick up my phone. Really easy to grab the tablet. Search out some dog training websites, stuff.

48:32But there's so much garbage out there. It just makes me sick. I know. So that's why, how do we get people the right information? How do you trust somebody? How do you know you're talking to a dog trainer that's telling you the right thing? I, I, I struggle with it. I mean, obviously I've seen you, I've seen Jordan, I've seen Sonny work with dogs. I've seen the magic of them being able to train a dog and what that does for the people that are standing there that own those dogs or they're, they're in their family.

49:06Right. But you're just said, Jordan's already full. Okay. Sorry. He's full. Right. You, you got maybe an opening in August for one of your seminars, but we do. We have openings. It's signed up now. I mean, August, August 29th and 30th at Blonde Even Unclob at Orthardville. So that's an August. That's a long time, George. I'm struggling now. I need to get my dog on track. What do I do? Help, help. I'm searching everything online. What do I do? Oh, I can't trust anything I read anymore. I don't know. Somebody outside is going to hear Travis yelling for help and come running in here.

49:38But no, this is what's going on in the mind of people that panic. And these people are panicking and they're giving their dogs up. We just had the gentleman from Second Chance Bird Dogs on the show a couple of weeks ago. So he's getting multiple calls every day from people that have hunting dogs that they cannot train. They cannot handle the dogs. They want to give the dogs up. That's what's going through their mind. Panic, George. Panic. And eventually they say, I can't do it. And they give the dog up and the dog might get put down.

50:10Dog might go to a different home. Who knows what's going to happen with it, but it's a real thing. And so how do you trust what you see online?

50:24I guess the only answer I have for you is how long have they been online? How long have they been training dogs?

50:37What are their references? I was going to say. Show me some examples. Give me some, I want, I want, I want George Lyle's phone number. You said you trained, helped him and you, you trained your dog and whatever. I need some contact information. I want some content. I want some real world stuff. I think it's funny too, that there's some old books out there, dog training books. And I know a lot of people like S. Franzen too. He still goes back to that old book and good on him for doing that because that book has,

51:10it was written a long time ago and a lot of dogs in his life have been trained by it and he trusts it. So it's kind of like, there's a lot out there online, but this is, this is sort of my, my starting point. This is where I'm going to base everything from. And I know a lot of people that are old school that way when it comes to dog training and it works for him. So, yeah, I agree.

51:36Delmar Smith, Delmar Smith has been a dog trainer for a really long time and wrote a book.

51:43There's, there's real stuff in that book. Wow. And then you pass. So let me ask you that. Are you going to, are you going to trust Delmar who is almost a hundred years old and wrote a book 50, 60 years ago, probably 60 years ago? Or are you going to trust, no, I'm going to hurt some feelings. Sorry. Are you going to trust this 25 year old kid who knows how to run the internet and he's wandering around a woe post and doing things so horribly wrong? But there's followers. He has followers.

52:14And you look at some of this stuff. I mean, what do you, I'm going to go read the book. Right. I'm going to read the book that's been, been published. How many times? And people still reference that book? Yeah. Well, are you going to, or in 30 seconds, you're going to grab your phone and find somebody and go, yeah, that's the way to do it.

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55:21Two-night, three-day packages, September through March, are available. Book your next hunt today. Visit HuntOakTree.com. That's HuntOakTree.com. Right, right, right. Well, I mean, but at some point, in order to get to that status, you have to go through the mistakes to learn from them. And you have to experience it. Everybody that's trained their own dog has made mistakes. You've made mistakes, believe it or not, George. Oh, yeah. You know, and with the mistakes comes experience that we can all learn from that, right?

55:55There are 98 million dogs in America, right, Alex? 98 million, isn't that what you said? I think that's what I said. Yeah. And that means there are millions of people that need to train them. And there's only three of you, George, you, Sonny, and Jordan. There's a couple of Smiths. Are they still doing it? Are the Smiths still training? Ronnie is. Ronnie? Yep. How long before he hangs it up? How long before you hang it up?