Reaching the Bird Dog Pinnacle

0:00This episode of The Flush Podcast is brought to you by OnX Hunt, Walton's, Hoxie Native Seeds, the Minnesota Horse and Hunt Club, HuntFishSD.com, Rufflin Kennels, Black Gold Dog Food, and by game, virtual shooting simulators. Today, we're talking about summer bird dog training, field trials, hunt tests, and more with Greg Blair, the sporting dog manager at Purina. Greg has lived a rich life in the bird dog world, walking side by side with some of the most well-respected dog trainers in the world, and of course, their championship caliber bird dogs. What does it take to reach

0:33the pinnacle with your bird dog? We're about to find out. Welcome to another episode of The Flush Podcast. I am your host, Travis Frank. Big Al is our producer. Greg Blair is our guest. Greg is a sporting dog manager at Purina. Greg, no foreplay today. We're just going to jump right into it.

1:06We should stop saying that. Why? No, we're not going to stop saying that. So the last week's episode, I happened to read a comment from somebody that I thought was funny because they said it took 23 minutes before I finally got around to the whole point because we like to tell fun stories. What have we been up to this week? But nobody's going to find out what I've been up to, and they certainly aren't going to find out what Al's been up to. So we're going to jump right into it. Greg, you just returned from Alabama, right? Yes, I did. And like I said, I got to binge listen to most of

1:39your episodes. We're not going to talk about turkey hunting or the one that got away or your family. Okay. Nope. I heard them all. And we're not going to talk about, uh, fishing league last night with my son. No, we're not going to talk about you read that wrong. Just so you know, but if you don't want to talk about third place, that's fine. But I still think you read that comment wrong. I think he was just saying that guy bring up Minnesota wild. Yeah. Don't bring them. Oh, well, the avalanche did just get clean, clean sweat by the golden Knights. So it feels a little

2:13better. Well, Greg, so you listened to the conversation about George that I had with George Lyle because he texted me after you were done listening to it. And did you know that George was a hockey player before he got into the bird dogs? I don't know if I knew that for sure. It reinforced something I thought I knew, but no, I didn't know it to that extent, but he was here in Whitewater. So I mean, playing club with hockey with them and Hayden, Illinois, that's still a good thing. That's a very good. Well, and I asked him the question right off the top. If you weren't a bird dog training fool, what would you do in life? And he said,

2:49I'd probably be a hockey player. So Greg, if I'm the same question to you, if you weren't a bird dog training, hunt test, field trial and hunting fool, what would you be in life? I don't know. Yeah. Well, my degree is actually in graphing design and commercial art. So I just think I'd still be in the ad agency. I love that fast pace ad work kind of stuff. So I'd probably still stay there. I don't have any dreams of being something different. I love the outdoors. Maybe I'd just be a hobby farmer and live off my wife's income, but. Oh, that sounds tempting, doesn't it?

3:25Well, you are the sporting dog manager at Purina. What does that mean? And what does it look like on a day to day? So I'm one of the sporting dog managers on our team. Um, I cover all the bird dog pointing dog sponsorships in the country for pro plan. We have another gentleman Ray vote who covers all the retriever and the herding sponsorships. And then we have another gentleman, Mark Cascio and the sporting dog team that covers the hounds, the canines and that. So there are three managers. My focus is a pointing dog segment, the bird dogs. So which is the largest?

4:02Well, if you go by, that's tough. If you go by numbers, if you go by how much the dogs cost, if you go by, you know, I would, there are a lot of hounds and a lot of beagles, but there's a lot of money in the retrievers. I think the bird dogs are kind of in the middle, the sweet spot. So we, we all have our different thumbprint on the whole segment of sporting dogs. Right. Well, you know, the labs are the number one dog in the country. So you would think

4:33the labs, but man, those beagle guys, they'll have kennels full of kennels full of kennels of beagles. I mean, they're smaller, so you can keep more, you know, sure. Well, what are they doing with all of them? Competing. I mean, there are beagle coonhound events all over the country through the Missouri Valley, up through Ohio. I mean, it is, it's amazing. And I only know a little bit about this and I'll be real quick about it. I mean, for instance, they'll come to like the world nationals. They'll give away Ford F-150s and dog boxes. And I mean, tens of thousands of dollars on

5:09certain, you know, final casts or whatever. And the top dog will get $10,000. The next dog will get $7,500. But the entry fees are a lot higher. So, but they have competitions all over the country, just like we do in the pointing dog world. It's, it's the same. And all of those herding just finished the soldier hollow classic out in that's Colorado, I believe, or no Utah soldier hollow. And they have them from all over the world. They're coming with their border collies and herding sheep.

5:39And it's amazing. Those dogs are really cool. I am fascinated by it. What does that look like when they have these events, the herding competitions? Can you kind of paint us a picture? Real quick. So I was there two or three years ago and what they do is they take a semi load of sheep and this is, I'm sure I'm going to be incorrect, but they'll take them to the top of what I call a mountain, a bluff, a hillside. It looks like a small ski hill and they'll, they'll just pasture them up there at the top. And I'm, so I'm saying I'm up with my dog at the bottom of the hill. They'll let

6:16five sheep out of that pasture and just sit there at the top of the hill. And they'll just sit there grazing. I've got to send my border collie up the hill on the left. You can't go right up at them and I'm up to the top. And now you whistle and talk to them and you work your dog and you push them down to you. You got to go through some gates. You got to come through the bottom. You got to turn left. You got to go up through a gate. You got to circle them back around and you got to bring them to you and you got to finish. And I say a gate, like a ski gate, you go through it. You have to

6:48finish in like a 10 by 10 pen. The door is open. Your dog has to put those 10 or those five sheep into that pen. You get to close the pen and it's, I'm pretty sure it's timed, but it's judged too. So anyway, it's sending the dog up, bringing the five down, putting them through some gates, putting them in a pen. And I mean, you're, you're whistling, you're talking, you're, you know, commanding them. But just like you see, if you ever see videos of dog, um, ranches using the border collies out on the West, cattle in, that's what they're doing. And I'm pretty sure

7:24on this, those border collies are best bring the sheep to you. Well, what they show, they're not used to sending the sheep away from you. So that part of the turn is, Rick, it can get real tricky on letting that dog commanding it to push those sheep, getting back around and bringing them back to you. So anyway, it's, you're not going up there with them. So they have to, and those high, high, high pitched whistles, you know, come by and away is left and right and then down. And so it's really

8:00that's the segment I don't even touch. Wow. Wow. I'm fascinated by that because you just have to put yourself in the middle of a massive pasture on a mountainside and your dog has to know exactly where to go when, and you're given those commands. Yeah. I just think about different, you know, you talked about the beagle side of it too. And then we live in the pointing dog, sporting dog side of it. The, there is a retriever side of it. Um, there's so many smart dogs out there. Do you think

8:34in, wait, how long have you been in this world now? I started at Purina in 2015. I've, I've had a pointing dog since 98. Okay. Um, what in all these years, is there one dog that you can look at and say, just based on what you can teach it, that is the smartest dog out there that God ever created? I don't know. I think someone like Carl who might have more experience, the border collies

9:05are smart. Um, I'll tell you, and I think, I think Michael might've said it from second chance bird dogs. The short hair, my first dog was a short hair. It was best dog. I knew nothing about training dogs and I didn't even train the dog, but I learned so much behind that dog. I still recommend that dog for a first time pointing dog buyer. Um, look at the short hair. GSP. Yep. But as far as quote unquote smartest, there's probably a dog that's not a, I hate to say it, of a sporting dog or a hunting

9:38dog. It's probably really, really, you know, those Malinois, when you get in the canines and what they can do and what the scent, every dog is amazing. I mean, and I don't think we even tap into, you know, half of what those dogs can offer us between their nose and their knowledge and their smarts. And, you know, those great trainers bring that all out in them. Have you ever been to any of the, like the Westminster show or anything like that? No. And we were talking, no, I don't. And we have another team. So I just explained what our

10:13three guys are plus Carl. We have another team on the breeder enthusiast group that just covers the confirmation and the show. So, you know, we love our dogs. They love their dogs. So it's like a total difference, but there again, they're supporting those top trainers and those top breeders. But no, I've never been to one. Let's talk a little bit about what it looks like financially to reach the very pinnacle of field trials in any of these different sectors.

10:44I mean, you certainly know the pointing dog world, but some of these dogs, I mean, we're talking many thousands of dollars. Can you say what is the most expensive dog that you've ever heard of being purchased in this world? I'll just talk from, again, the retrievers are out of my league, out of my pay schedule, out of my pay rate. So I could talk on the pointing dog circuit. They're selling two and

11:15three-year-old or two-year-old, what we call derbies. When they're past two-year-olds, they're adult dogs. But if you get a derby that's really good, even a year old, you know, you're talking $20,000, $25,000 for one that's going to win at the top, all-age top shooting dog level. The level that I run in personally, you know, the walking segment, the cover dog segment, you won't see that kind of money for those types of dogs because, you know, there are more in that

11:46pool that can play the walking game or the cover dog game. But when someone says, hey, I've got an all-age prospect, which is the top running, biggest running dog of the, you know, fire-breathing dragon. Yeah. I mean, a young dog can go for $20,000, $25,000. And a lot of them that are sold, you never hear how much they're sold for. Sure. Nobody's going to tell you that. There's only two people that know that, right? The buyer and the seller. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. You know, I'll say he's paid X amount and some

12:18guy, I'll say he's sold it for X amount, but that's, and honestly, I mean, I'm, there are live breathing animals. I mean, they can get hit by a car the next day. I mean, you're investing in something that can go away or not pan out. So you're, you know, you're gambling, you're playing the game and you're hoping that it's going to pan out. Now, is there money in field trialing? No. I mean, it's a losing proposition from the moment you write the first job.

12:49I'm sure you do it for the love of the game. And we might be going down a tangent. We got to circle back on, but the pros make money. They got a good business model. They have so many dogs on their truck. They're winning purses and they get paid per month per the dog and handling fees. Yes. But as an amateur for myself, I do it for the love of the game. If I wasn't doing this, I'd probably be golfing and spending a lot of money on golf and going through, you know, a set of clubs every two or three years. Like I go through dogs every couple of years, you know? So, um, you can spend a lot of money on a hobby that I love. It's a passion.

13:25I wasn't employed by them either. You know, you'd be doing it. Yeah. Cause you were, you were doing trials before you took this job, right? You're on your own. Right. What is your greatest field trial accomplishment that you, if somebody says, Greg, what you've reached the top of this, what, what would it be for you? Um, I think I can see that dog right there, which is that painting is a NBA national champion and that's his hall of fame induct. So I owned a dog that won the national

13:57open championship under a pro's whistle, Tom Waite, but he was inducted in the hall of fame two years ago. So to get a dog to that point. Now I think any dog that is a champion, it's a huge accomplishment, especially on the field trial circuit, because you don't accumulate points like in the AKC or like in Nastra to earn your championship status. You've got to actually win a champion championship stake.

14:29So the Northern Minnesota cover dog championship, if it's labeled a championship and there's 60 dogs in that championship, you've got to win it to be titled a champion. You don't get any points. So you've got to win it. And there are dogs that I would buy in a heartbeat that in their lifetime will never be titled a champion because they never want it. Is that because of the dog and its genetics or is that the handler? That they won't win? Yeah. It's because of the luck of the draw,

15:00the type of the weather, the course that you're on. It's just, there's so many things that have to come together for you to win that trial that's now, and there's dogs that maybe shouldn't win them. That'll, that'll be the dog of the day and they'll win and they'll have a great run, but there's some dogs, they just had the right gust of wind at the right time. And that was what separated them or they don't finish or whatever. So I give props to anyone that are finishing dogs and in trials and especially championships. And then the ones that win it, that's a huge

15:31accomplishment. They should be proud of it. Even runner up is great, but to have one that won the national open, he was a three-time national champion, a one-time regional and a one-time national runner up and then was in the hall of fame. So that's, I can be part of that team. And again, it was, I championed him as an amateur in an amateur championship and Tom won it with the national open. So. So, uh, for people that can't see over your shoulder that don't, aren't watching the video that are driving the vehicle, what, what is the breed of dog over your shoulder in the photo?

16:05His call name was Guy. Guy was an English setter, um, Blair's Witch Project. I, Dr. Alan Dunbar out of the Green Bay area, bred him grouse feather kennels. So, and I can't even think of the year. I'd have to look at the plaque to know what year he won it. 2018 is when he won the national open. Such a good looking dog. My goodness. Just standing there looking like a million bucks. And I'll tell you him and the pointer that I have now are, I would put them on the prairies

16:36against anyone. They were the best wild bird dogs I've ever hunted over. Now this one won a lot. The setter won a lot. The pointer, he's more of a hunting dog and field trials aren't his game, but I still enter him anyway. It's for the love of the game, but what makes it different? So we taught, we hear about this all the time, Greg. And before we turn the mic on, you mentioned, you know, how the hunting dog world benefits from the field trial dog world as well. You live in both of them. So it is possible.

17:07You can do both, right? Most definitely. I wouldn't loan one if I couldn't hunt them. And I don't get out to hunt as much as I'd like to because of jobs and traveling and stuff. But every September they sharp tail hunt, they Hungarian hunt. I'll take them in the cover dog world. If we're up at a championship, I'll hunt them. So no, they've got to hunt because that's when you can just relax and have a good time. And, you know, those trial dogs, they know when they're hunting, they know when they're field

17:39trialing. You know, it's, you know, it's like a track athlete, you know, when you're just going out for a jog with your buddies or if you're behind, you know, the sticks and you got to run to the end of wind. So, you know, they all have noses. Here's the thing that I say is for both. They have to cooperate with you in a field trial because if you don't finish them at the end of the hour and you can't find them and they ran off and they don't come and go with you, you're not going to win. So most of the dogs that I have, you know, stay with you. So when you hunt, they're just staying

18:15with you and they're hunting and they're finding birds and they're retrieving birds. We don't have to retrieve in our field trial game, but I'll, I still remember the last bird I shot over guy and I killed it and he brought it right to my hand and that was it. That was, he was done.

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21:28So, how old was your dog when he won the title?

21:32Um, probably seven. Six or seven. He started his first championship. He won when he was five and then it kind of snowballed. When does a dog typically reach its peak? I would say between between four and eight. Okay. How long can they maintain it? Um, he tore his ACL out in South Dakota. So, he stopped hunting or traveling when he was eight or nine. I would, I would probably say

22:07on our level in the walking circuit, you can probably go a little bit longer because, you know, you're putting wear and tear on them, but not as hard as some of those bigger running dogs. I would say, you know, eight or nine. They're competitive, you know, obviously not like they were when they were two, three, four, and five. When you say wear and tear, I, I think, you know, going out to Montana or Oklahoma and hunting bob whites and some of those conditions. I mean, just what I've seen my dog and how many miles she puts on. And I question myself, am I putting

22:43her through too much? Should I not let, I mean, she wants to go, but is that always the right thing? And what does wear and tear on a dog mean to you? And is there a point where you say, we're pulling the plug. She's going back in the box. We need to bring another dog out. Yeah. Wear and tear to me, obviously is a little different hunting versus field trialing. Cause wear and tear, I think of the big picture when I, when someone puts a dog on a field trial pro string, they're probably with that pro, if not 10, 11, 12 months out of the year, probably eight to

23:16nine months of the year. So they're getting run, you know, four or five times a week. They're on the truck, off the truck, on the chain gang, traveling the country, sitting in a truck for 10 hours, going from this place to that place. So there's a lot more wear and tear than actually just on their joints and on their bones. They're basically at college 24 seven. Now us hunting, you know, if you're hunting with a couple of buddies or you're fortunate enough to have three or four dogs, you notice when that dog's slowing down a little bit, needs a break, you take them off, you put them

23:48away, you run them the next afternoon versus that morning. So they got like a 12 hour break and then you skip a day. So we can kind of watch that wear and tear when we're hunting versus a dog that's on the field trial circuit. That's, you know, on Sean Kinkler or Luke's truck all the time, running trial to trial to trial. They'll get time off like now until the end of June, then they'll go back to the prairies and they'll start it all over again. You know, it's...

24:18But for the average hunter, probably the average person driving in their vehicle right now, they have one dog, maybe two, the average hunter. Is there a point where they're doing damage to a dog? If they, let's say I've got my five days in North Dakota and I want my dog to hunt every single day because this is my big trip of the year. Sure. Is there a point where you say, nope, dog, you're hurting your dog by continuing this hunt?

24:50Well, you should be. I mean, you should still have that eye in case something, you see something come up that I need to put them on the shelf. Now, a lot of that is pre-season training, getting them ready for that kind of thing. And even like, you know, George mentioned in his, you know, there's a lot to physical stamina, mental stamina, the whole mindset of the dog. You know, does he, you know, come out of the box a hundred miles, like you were saying with Daisy, a hundred miles an hour and then come back to you 15 minutes later and just kind of lope around? Or is it a kind of

25:23dog that guy was this way, you cut them loose and they just kind of get into their stride and that's the way they can go for three or four hours. Yeah. But then you got to know when to put them away and it's up to us, you know? So yes, there should be a limit and you should watch that because if you're going out there for five days and you ruin a dog in the first two days, you might as well turn around and come home. So it's kind of really up to us to know the dog. And if the dog's in shape and it has a mental capacity to know when and when to, when and how to turn it off, you've got a pretty good handle on your dog. So I don't know

25:59if there's a rhyme or reason of exactly how many hours per day, every dog is different. Well, you, you heard George and I talk and you've heard me talk about my dog Daisy coming out hot and just like blowing off the first cubby or whatever it is and driving me absolutely insane. Greg, I'm sure you're laughing, you're shaking your head. I got some emails, but I know, I'm sorry. I know that I am not the only person that has a dog like this. Cause I have a lot of people that reach out to me and they're like, what are you going to do about it? Because

26:31I need to know what to do myself.

26:34Yeah. I don't know how you stop that. And again, a lot of it is mental capacity and knowing what they're out there for. And I see that in a lot of younger dogs, but the older dogs kind of know the drill. You'd think Daisy wouldn't by now, but. I know. You would think so. You would think so. I mean, she's a six year old dog now and she's still on her peak though. Yeah. She's great. She has pointed thousands of wild birds. I can honestly say that. I mean, just the amount of birds that she's pointed. I mean, once she gets

27:09that one out, she's like, all right, cool, cool, cool. Let's, let's go. Let's I'm on now, dad, you know, but why do you think she would know not to come out so hot and wear herself off and hurt herself and rip her paws or whatever it might be. But a lot of that is personality. And like George said, maybe some of it needs to be preseason, uh, going to the steps or the tables or getting her mind. But I think some, again, like Michael said with second chance bird, a lot of it are like kids. Some kids are just wired to go balls to the wall all the time until they get punched in the

27:43face. And they're like, Oh, okay. And then they're like, okay, shake that off and I'll be fine. But there's a lot of correlation to that. And you know, some kids just get it. Some don't, some takes longer, some, you know, it just takes longer for them to understand. Stick with the process is what you're saying and spend more time out there before the hunt begins working with the dog. I mean, that's, that's really what it is, right? Some are just apt to do that, but I, I really liked the whole build a foundation on them when

28:17they're young, you know? And again, if I'm hunting or you're hunting with me and my dog's out there as a rebel and I can't control it and he doesn't come and go with me and we're chasing the dog and all you're hearing me do is whistle, whistle, whistle. It's not fun to hunt that way. And you're going to win trials that way. So I was talking with someone last week about, you know, some training seminars and different people. And they're, I'm like, they're all good in the point that they talk about build a foundation. How do you get them out of the truck? How do you walk them to the line?

28:51How do you come and go with me? Make sure they're paying attention to you. And then once they get through that middle school, high school, and then you want to put the polish on them. If you want a field trial, if you want to hunt test, if you just want to hunt, they all need that basic. They all need that foundation or they're going to be that wild child that you're not going to want to hunt behind. So let's talk about that foundation a little bit because George and I got into this conversation about how do you trust a training method that's out there? There's a few, there's a lot out

29:24there, right? You know, and you're seeing Greg, the very best genetics in the world in bird dogs, sporting dogs, pointing breeds. And you're also seeing the very top trainers working with these dogs, right? So you've, you've seen it, you know what it looks like, but somebody that has maybe their first bird dog, they don't want to mess this up because they're committed for the next decade plus on this dog. How do they know

29:56that a method that they're going to choose to build this foundation and work from is the right one for them? The biggest thing for me is patience. You know, I can sit on the internet and I can flip through all of them. And I don't know who said it, but if you're, if you want a dog and you want it for this year's hunting season, or you think you're just going to go buy one in July, you're going to have mistakes. You're going to get railroaded. You're going to get a great one. You don't know your odds

30:26aren't with you, but if you have patience and say, I want one for next year, I'm going to check out, you know, is it, you know, George and Sonny? Is it Ronnie? Is it George Hickox? Is it Tom Wade? Is it Rod Lyon? Is it Jordan Ferris? If you have the time and patience to check these people out, even if it's online and call them and ask questions and ask for referrals, you're going to be so far ahead of the eight ball that you won't be pulling your hair out as much later down the road and your

30:57odds are better. If you don't have the patience, you're going to make mistakes. There's a lot of, like George says, someone can throw up a website with AI and throw a bunch of videos and they might have a half acre lot in, you know, the suburbs of Peoria, Illinois. You just don't know until you see them over and over and dig into it a little further. It's the same for me with guys who were picking stud dogs. A lot of times they're going to pick a dog that looks pretty on the internet that

31:30everyone talks up. Oh yeah, my dog did this and my dog did that. And I'm, and I've seen some of these dogs and I'm like, have you seen that dog? So be patient, go and check things out. If you have the time, if you have the, if you don't have the resources, lean on someone like yourself or myself or George who have resources that they can punch you towards or Michael at second chance, like he said, he's got either breeders or rescues. Talk to the people who have the knowledge. Um, like you

32:02said, there are a lot of training, but be patient, be consistent and take your time because I've given up on a lot of dogs that probably could have been field trial winners right now. They're great hunting dogs, but I just moved them on because I have no patience. And that's one of my, um, so be patient. Um, the other thing is, you know, maybe we passed over this, but one of the biggest things is find out what type, what breed of dog or do you want? I mean, do you want to hunt behind a Brittany? Cause

32:34they're smaller and they're shorter distance. Do you want to hunt behind a big, big running pointer, you know, or something in between? Do you want a wire hair for duck? You have to decide that. And if you take your time, you check out different breeds, you check out different trainers, you're going to be way ahead in the long run. Well, and I think sometimes there are really skilled and great dog trainers that are just starting out. You know, you don't just instantly become Ronnie Smith.

33:05It just doesn't happen. You have to build that credibility up. I think a lot of the trainers out there that I talk to that are just getting started, or they've been in it for a few years. And I ask them, I say like, how did you decide which method of training these dogs you're going to start with? And a lot of them say, well, they'll, they'll take the Smith method and then they may tweak it a little bit, but that's really the foundation that their, their whole kennel is built off of. And so, I mean, there are very, well, there are quite a few trainers out there

33:40and kennels out there and they all come from, from somewhere. Right. And so, um, they, they work on building their reputation. They, they work with dogs and over time they get to that point. Us, we're looking at, you know, the average hunter is probably looking at maybe two or three dogs in their lifetime, maybe more. Right. Um, you know, so they're putting a lot of, I mean, I'll just look at some of my neighbors that they've got bird dogs and they've got dogs. They just want trained well.

34:11And they, they always ask me, what do you know about this guy? And I'm like, well, you know, it's not like, it's not like you have Greg unlimited time to work with everybody's dog. George loud doesn't have unlimited time. Sunny Pete cars, Jordan Wells. I mean, these guys do not, there's a limited space in their kennel for how many dogs they can take on. So you have to eventually pick somebody to work with if that's the route you're going to go or a method. Some of the

34:43original books that have been written out there, you probably have some of them, Greg. I mean, where did you, where did you start on your first dog? Well, I was actually, it kind of goes along the line that your interview with Ken is when I bought my short hair, I bought him at a sports show here in Wisconsin. And the gentleman's at the kennel was heavily involved in shoot to retrieve, Nastra. So he took me under his wing and said, Hey, just come out to the kennel, plant birds for us, keep score. And so it was a mentor mentee kind of

35:16relationship, but I'm very competitive. I played sports all my life in college, whatever. And I wanted the competition. So, Hey, I can compete with my dog. I'm doing it. So he was kind of a mentor to me. So, and then he introduced me to a trainer and then my high school buddy's cousin was a trainer here in Southeast Wisconsin that I've been with since 2002 or three or four. And a lot of times when you find a method or you might not even know what the methods are. I mean, if someone gets a

35:49brand new pointing dog, they might not know the Smith's method, the, the, you know, the method with Jordan and George, they might not know the clicker method. They might not know what a low post is versus a swing versus a barrel. A lot of times it's relationship with that trainer. If you click with him or her and you can ask the questions and you feel like you're getting an honest reaction or answer, their way to skin the cattle is going to probably get you the same results as

36:19Ronnie Smith or, you know, whoever. So if you're always pulling your hair out with your trainer and you're not getting the answers that you want and you don't believe them or that's not going to work either. So kind of pick that person too. Is it fair to say that if you're going to buy a puppy from somebody, the best advice would be to go and spend time with the parents of that dog beforehand to kind of see the potential that might be coming out of that litter? Is that realistic though for

36:55most people? And would most trainers, kennels allow that? Yeah, but I don't know if you can wait until that litter is quote unquote announced or on the ground because you're not going to see that female work. She's going to be taking care of puppies. That male might not even be, that might be a frozen semen or they might've fresh chilled, shipped it in, or they might've brought, you know, traveled eight hours to see that dog. Um, there's a lot that you can see on, you know, wins or history or videos on

37:26males that aren't around, but yeah, I mean, ask around. I mean, ask people who have dogs from that line. We all know that puppies are a crap shoot. I mean, they can be eight of them and four of them work out for, you know, hunters and two are good field trial dogs. And, you know, one's going to be the that could turn out to be great down the road, but there again, it's patience. But if they have a good solid foundation, like, you know, Steve mentioned with Top Gun, I mean, they have a different mentality for their gundog clientele. Unbelievably solid, solid, solid foundation of pedigrees and dogs.

38:04So your odds are better there than the olden days. And I'm aging myself of looking in the classifieds in the newspaper or looking on Facebook marketplace and be smart about it. But yes, if you can see them most definitely go see them. Is that going to be exactly like Steve said, what the puppies are going to be like? No, but you have a pretty good inkling of what they're going to be like. There might be one rebel in the group and there might be one runt in the group. Again, just like our families. But yes, if you can do it, do it. If the stud dog's not around, ask around or check

38:43them out online. Cause some of the top stud dogs in the country and some of these people are breeding too. You can find out a lot about them that are legit online or people who have bred to them. What do you think the chances are of, and I have a friend who picked up a puppy, a pointer off a classified ad. He just drove to Iowa and picked this dog up and it was just on a whim and he just saw this and, and it's a great dog, but he's really taking a risk. They're not knowing much about it. His dad

39:16got one as well. And Sonny Peacars spent a couple of days with the two dogs. And he's like, that one has the it same litter, same, same litter, you know, litter mates. And that one has the it he would be on my, on my chain. Sure. And I would take them around the country to the best dog or best lodges in the country. You know, when he trained down at the Mariposa ranch down in Texas and he's like, that dog has it. And that was just a classified ad dog down in Iowa. You know, so

39:52what are the, if, if you did it 10 times from a high, highly respected genetics are solid, you know, these, the stud and I mean, just everything lines up perfectly for this pair to make a great litter. And then you get to random guy who had an accidental, oops, like, I mean, again, it's genetics and I give those breeders a lot of credit cause I, I don't, I don't want to touch that, but the percentage

40:24of now, let me back up. How old were they when Sonny evaluated them or take it, saw them? Um, probably six months. Okay. Yeah. He'd have a good, yeah. He'd have a good understanding what they're like. Um, yes, your odds are probably not going to be the greatest, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. Um, I'll, I'll preface it with this is you're right. I've seen a lot of the best of the best. I've had a lot of started dogs that aren't going to make the shooting dog or the all age

41:00circuit that they said, Oh, it'll make a great walking dog for you. Uh, they don't live here anymore. I've had, I've gotten rid of a lot of those. So even though the bred, the best of the best, they're great hunting dogs. They're great plantation dogs. I just today saw a dog that I moved on. I won't say cut, didn't think he'd make it for me. And I traded him at a plantation in, um, Alabama for a dog to be named later, a cocker and just saw him online. The guy trained and looks

41:36like a million bucks. I mean, he looks like a million dollars. That was two years ago when I got rid of him, but he said, he's going to be a great plantation dog for us. He could probably stretch out a little bit, but we love him. So it was like, and he was bred the best of the best. So what I'm looking for and what someone else is looking for is a little bit different, but your odds are going to be less. Yes. Going by backyard breeder, quote unquote, but some of those can be diamonds. You just, you never know. Yep. Yep. Totally. I've seen some amazing dogs that came from

42:12the, the backyard breeder. 40 years sure is a long time to be in business. And that's exactly how long Waltons has been helping America's butchers, hunters, anglers, and families prepare their meat. That is quite a milestone. And to that, I say, Waltons, congratulations on 40 years in business to your entire family. I sincerely hope that you know how hard they work to provide all of us with the right tools to process and prepare all of our hard earned meat. Walton's motto is

42:44everything, but the meat for a reason. They have everything we need to process every cut of meat you can think of. And after a long hunting season, I'm hoping you have a freezer full of it. If you're looking to make sausage, jerky, snack sticks, roast, you name it, Waltons can help you with the tools and the knowledge to do it right. The first time, check them out at Waltons.com and congratulations on 40 years in business. You've earned our trust. If you're looking to sharpen your upland shooting skills, or maybe your kids are starting to get into the sport like mine are, then you need to check

43:14out game. That's G A I M. Our friends over there are changing the way we approach training. They're cutting edge virtual reality hunting and shooting scenarios, immerse you in the field without actually leaving your home. Whether it's game birds or clays, the game system allows you to practice your shotgun mechanics, giving you real time shot feedback that allows for instant adjustments. And it's been incredibly fun for my kids. It allows them to safely build confidence, which I know translates to success in the field. Virtual training, real results. Click the show

43:50description below to learn more or visit their website at game.com to try for yourself. That's G A I M.com. If you're heading out on the next hunt, don't forget the teammate who never complains and never misses your dog. At Roughland, we built the ultimate travel system for hunting dogs and the people who run with them. It starts with our one piece kennels built tough to handle rough roads, cold mornings, and whatever else the season throws at you. From there, customize your system with stackable gear, food and water containers, organization trays, or insulated covers. Everything is

44:23lightweight, field tested, and made right here in the USA. Because let's be real, we don't deserve great dogs. But great dogs, they deserve a Roughland. Visit roughlandkennels.com today and build your version of the ultimate travel system before your next flush. Here's a scouting tip that might just help you find a few more wild birds. First, grab your phone and then open up the OnX Hunt app. In the bottom right corner, click on the 2D button and then select 3D. Then place two fingers on the screen of your phone and slide them up together at the same time. After that, zoom into a property that you've

44:54hunted before or one that you've never been to and take a look at the terrain in 3D. I bet you'll see a few nooks and crannies that will hold birds out of the elements. I bet you'll see the land in a dimension that you never thought possible. These are the details that matter when you're putting miles on the truck and on your boots during a hunt. OnX Hunt is the ultimate tool for us bird hunters. It shows our position on planet Earth, land boundaries, land topography, burns, forests that have been logged, weather, and a whole bunch of other features that will

45:25make you a better hunter. If you've never tried the OnX Hunt app, then you can download a free seven-day trial to help you understand why hunters like myself simply can't hunt without it. Know where you stand with OnX Hunt. You and I have both hunted and spent time in the field with a variety of different dog breeds. We can get controversial if you want to about which breeds are better. Everyone's dog is the best dog. Okay, we'll just say that right now so that everyone listening, you have the best dog.

45:57Yours is the best out there for sure. These are strictly our own opinions. These are our own opinions here. And I've said this for years that watching different dogs in the field with other dog, different dog breeds, I should say, in different hunting situations next to different dog breeds working at the same time, they're completely different skill sets out there. These are different strengths and weaknesses of different dogs. When I have to imagine you get

46:30this question, what's the best dog breed out there, Greg? Am I wrong? Yeah, I mean, I get it. And I mean, if you're asking me that question, mine is for my income, they all have to eat. So I don't care which dog you pick. It goes back to what I said earlier is you've got to pick what you want to do for your hunting, for your game, for your family, where it's going to be. For me, it's a pointer, bar none. I mean, I don't know if I'd go back

47:04to a setter. That'd be my second choice. But right now it's an, it's a pointer, English pointer. But if I was, I don't know. Hold on, explain, explain why. Um, because I know what they can do hunting wise and my odds of winning in a field trial are probably a little bit higher in the game that I play. So, and they don't need to be shaved like the setters do. They're a little more lower maintenance. They're great house dogs. I just, I love the power and the, just the intensity of a pointer.

47:39Yeah, I do too. I know you see it and you're like, hold, when you see a good English pointer out there, rip a point on the side of a hill, it just is like, it sends goosebumps. I mean, but you said something interesting there. They're great house dogs because pointers have such a reputation as being unlovable dogs. They're just business. They don't, but I see it differently. I know so many of them that are really good house dogs. It's exposure. It's exposure. It's exposure. You expose those dogs to the house, like any

48:14other, my wife's got a Shih Tzu now that, you know, when you bring them in the house, you teach them where their kennel is. You teach them where they can go. When they can't, you do that with a pointer. They're, they're, they're, they curl up on next to the fireplace like a setter does. I mean, they were great with my daughter when they were younger. Um, it's exposure. Now the dogs that have now don't come in the house until they're either retired or injured. Like guy, when he tore his ACL, he was my office, but he just laid right here the whole time. Never lived in the house in his life, lived on a truck or lived in my

48:46kennel and came in and was a perfect gentleman. But yet they are pointers are, and usually typically they're a little bit finer bone and skinnier and tight. They can curl up in the ball and sit right next to you. So no, they're, they get a bad rap, but I love them. Yeah. You mentioned that field trials have a great impact on the hunting dog world. Explain that. Really? Um, field trials were developed to, we'd say, improve the breed. Um, so if there

49:22wasn't a group of field trialers or hunt test people or NASTRA or NABDA out there pushing these pointing dogs to their limits and testing them and seeing what kind of dogs they've got, all we would have are backyard breeders that don't know what they're breeding. So we are, I say it's kind of like creating that professional athlete, then that Olympic athlete. And, you know, you put two great animals together that have proven stamina, nose, mental capacity,

49:54and you're breeding the best of the best. You're going to get, the curve is you're going to get probably breed down, but you want to breed the best. If we keep breeding down and we're not testing them, we don't know what we're going to get. We're going to get health issues. We're going to get mental issues. We're going to get, you know, dogs that are not in the, you know, confirmation size standards. So we tried to get those canine athletes to show the community, Hey, you know,

50:24this dog can, is an endurance dog. This dog has won an invitational, a two hour trial, a one hour and a half trial. He's got the heart. He's got the lung capacity. You know, he's got a great nose. You guys should be breeding to this dog. So that's where it can help the hunting community. And when we have a litter of pups that are field trial bred, quote unquote, we all know that there might be two or three that are field trials, the other four or five or six are going to be amazing hunting dogs.

50:57So that's what separates though, because I hear a lot of trialers say it's going to be a great hunter, just not a field trialer. What separates the two? Can you differentiate that for us? Sure. Um, I'll use this dog as an example that I just saw today. His sire was the Purina dog of the year over and over and over developing him. Um, he didn't run, he didn't have the independence to like get out there and go and check things out. He just loved to hang out with me when he would point. He'd be

51:32a little bit lower in the front, which showed a ton of intensity, a ton, but in field trialing, we're putting on a show and it's a beauty contest and we want him high and tight, both ends. You know, he was a little bit low in the front and he flagged a little bit, but here again, I didn't give him a lot of time. He was nine months, a year old at the time. But so I saw certain characteristics there that I'm like, you know what? He's got a great nose. He likes to stay with you. He's not going to hit an edge and take it out of the country and win a field trial for me. He, he's going to be a perfect plantation dog or a hunting dog or, you know, a hunt club

52:05dog up here. So there are standards that we look for or capabilities or characteristics that we look for in field trial dogs that are way above, again, that will help improve the breed that if we don't see it young, we're not going to waste most, some of us are not going to waste our time on dogs like that. You know right away, don't you?

52:30I think I do. And again, my trainer says I have no patience because our dog's too early, but I don't have a kennel where I can keep five or six dogs until they're three, four, five years old to find out if they're winners. And I travel a lot and my wife's not home. So it's like, I need to make a decision pretty quick. And hopefully since this dog guy passed away, it's been three years, four years. I've been chasing my tail to try and find a good one. And I've gone through probably four or five. I think I've got, I think I've got one,

53:02maybe two on now. So it takes a while, but no, we can see, and they're really good, well-bred. They're great noses, great family dogs, and just would be good for the hunting community. How does somebody get so immersed into it like you? I mean, is, are you just, you can't get enough of this? You'd need to see all these tests. I mean, how do you get this in-depth into it? You know, I remember when I interviewed for this position at Purina, I kept using the word passion,

53:34passion, passion, to a point where I'm thinking out of these people are thinking I'm nuts. But it is, it's like, I love the outdoors. I grew up on somewhat of a farm. I love animals. It's the right time in my life. I can travel. I can see it. I still get goosebumps watching a dog on point if it's Nastra, Navda, Brittany. I mean, to me, there's nothing better than cutting a dog loose and just seeing them hang out on an edge and swap ends and point. And you take five minutes to

54:06walk up to them and the birds are there. They did it right. Now, some of them don't do it right. But anyway, I just love it. And the people are amazing. It's the group. I mean, the hunting community, the testing community, we meet a lot of great people and a lot of great kennels. I also see a lot of dog performances that I'll never forget. I'm blessed. I mean, this is truly my dream job. It's amazing.

54:37Very cool. That's so cool to hear that. You've got it. I love it. And there's some dogs I wouldn't feed either. Well, I'd still feed them, but they'd be laying next to me in my office. They're not hunters. They just don't have it in them. Well, what does it take then to reach the pinnacle? You've got the genetics. Mom and dad were great trialers. They've got the genetics passed down. Now what? Because I think you can apply this to somebody who wants to have a great

55:08bird dog to hunt behind out in North Dakota or the Northwoods of Michigan or whatever. You want to enjoy the hunt with your dog? Well, then it's going to take some time. But what does it take to be the best, to get the very best out of your dog for them to reach the pinnacle? You have to be committed to it. I mean, I've come across some people that they dip their toe in, then they get frustrated, and then they come out. Field trialing, and I'll separate field trialing

55:39from hunt tests or NABDA where you're testing. I won't say a cutthroat. It's a discouraging sport because you could go all season and not win anything. But what we always say is if you enjoyed yourself, you enjoyed the people, you came off the field and you learned something there, you're committed to it and you're committed to coming back, you need to be committed to it for year over year over year. The dog that I've got now, the pointer that I've got now, won the NBHA

56:10National Futurity, which is a two-year-old, the two-year-olds. And honestly, Travis, he hasn't won since. And he's seven, eight. But he's a great hunting dog. He's a great producer. He's a great house dog when I bring him in. He's a cool personality. But I'm committed to the game. I'm committed to the sport. I'm committed to having fun and competition. If you're not committed to it, you'll get frustrated real quick because seven times out of 10, the judges probably won't pick you. And there again,

56:44trialing is a judge's opinion. There are no scores. You know, in Nastra, you get a score. And if you get four birds, you're going to beat who's got three birds. But in field trialing, it's a judge's opinion on, I like that dog, that dog, and that dog, first, second, third. And you can walk for years of not placing ever. But what are they looking for specifically that says, I like that one, that one, that one? Well, on the broke dog's sake, all the dogs have to, let's just say it's a weekend trial.

57:16It's a 30-minute course. It's not a field. You're going on a walking course. The dog's got to find the bird, stand steady in the wing and shot on a blank, no retrieving. And then they send them on. You can't back cast. You got to go forward and find the next bird. They're looking for drive. They're looking for style. They're looking for them hitting the edge, staying out front. They don't want a 50, 75, 100-yard dog that's just zigzagging in front of them. They want independence, power. They want them to look pretty, look good. You know, hopefully no flagging on point,

57:51steady in the wing and shot, backing when it's required. You don't have to back. But you can lose on back. If you don't back and you interfere, then you're picked up and you're done. I was going to say, you can't, as a handler, you can't say anything to like a, whoa, to get it to stop. Yeah. If I know my dog is edgy on backing and I'm not sure and I'm close enough to see it and talk to him, I'm going to talk to him because if I don't and he goes in there and busts it,

58:22then I'm picked up anyway. If I can get it to stop by my verbal, the judge would be okay. Hey, you know, I'm... That's kosher. That's fine. You can do that. It's fine, but they're not going to, someone else can do it better. So the judge is going to look at this weekend trial, 30-minute course. You might have 18 dogs, so you've got nine braces. At the end of the nine braces, they're going to pick first, second, third on who they liked. What dog stayed to the front, 10 o'clock, two o'clock, went around the courts, didn't back cast, didn't come through the

58:53gallery, looked really good on the birds, located their game well, didn't like rode in, circle it, stop, relocate. So they're looking for the whole package and it's their opinion. It's totally their opinion. So sometimes you get to the higher and higher trials, you'll see who the advertised judges are and you'll be like, you know, I know they don't like my style of dog. Let's not go to Southern Illinois. Let's go over to Iowa. Really? You base your trials based on the

59:23judges that are going to be there? We don't. As my trainer said, if I had to pick and choose the judges I'd like, I wouldn't be going to any trials. So we don't. We compete. We believe in our dogs. We believe every dog has its day. And if we keep putting, as they say, drop the tailgate and we keep running them, we enjoy it. We enjoy the camera, but you have to be committed to it, to field trial and win at the top. I mean, again, you could go years without, that's why I said when

59:53we started this, someone to secure a championship title on a field trial dog is a huge accomplishment because so many things have to go right. And it's a judges. Wow. So let's, let's talk about hunt tests and field trials and, and how they have created really great hunting dogs based on just what we see genetics and things like that. Are there certain breeds that might be trending up statistically or down based on results and genetics over time?

1:00:32Because you've been in this a while now. I mean, there's trends. There's, there's certain dogs, like a couple of years ago, I would say it was the year of the setter. Everybody wanted a setter, right? They're beautiful dog. And, but statistically when it comes to these hunt tests and the skills that these dogs possess, you know, if somebody is listening right now and they're like, gosh, I I'm on the fence on which breed I might be thinking, et cetera, I might be thinking GSP, might be thinking Labrador retriever, whatever it might be. Are there some that are just like,

1:01:02these dogs today are really genetically on the rise. There's great genetics in America right now because of certain breeds. Sure. And again, I'll leave the retrievers and the hounds and stuff out of it. Um, you're right on the setter push that, that was back when Shadow Oak Bowl won the national championship two years in a row and everybody thought I'm going to get a setter. I'm going to get a setter. I'm going to get a setter and it kind of get watered everything down. Um, was that bad for the

1:01:33breed? Um, I don't think it was bad for the breed. I don't think, I don't think he reproduced the champions at the number of times that he was bred. The, the percentage of champions out of that breeding, there's other dogs that are much, much higher than that. Um, but wait, what was, was it bad for it to be bred or that many times for that one dog?

1:02:00I think it kind of watered down a lot of pedigrees. Um, what we saw is the second generation of Bo, like a female granddaughter of him produced a lot. So we didn't see it for years. The one thing that Bo was great for, great. He had a nose and he can't beat a nose on a dog. That's why he won the national at Ames is he went out there and just found bird after bird. You know, he out-birded everybody. And shoot to retrieve has a lot of shadow oak Bo blood in them because they're on a 40 acre

1:02:35field. They want that nose. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom here. Bird, bird, bird. They had a lot of good success. So it kind of depends on what venues. The field trial community didn't reap the benefits of Bo, I don't think for a couple of generations. Cause I think the females after his, like his granddaughters produced a lot better. So it, I don't want to say it had a drag on the, it just kind of changed the focus of the setter breed a little bit. Um, I would say the strongest, uh, I shouldn't even say the strongest, one of the more, the stronger breed is still the GSP,

1:03:08the short hair. If you look at Nastra, if you look at NAVDA, the Testing National, uh, American Versatile Hunting Dog Association, the short hairs are the top breed there. Um, Nastra has a lot of great short hairs and shoot to retrieve. The GSPCA and the NGSPA, which are the two national short hair organizations for field traveling, one AKC and one UKC have amazing dogs. So that-

1:03:39Statistically, statistically, statistically, you're more likely to get a great hunting companion if you go with a GSP than any other breed out there. Like, yeah, I, back on wood, I know, I think a short hair is a great bet, a great bet. I mean, I started with one, um, you know, they're bigger dogs, they're tougher, they can do water, they typically retrieve, um, and they're very solid on their breeding. Um, and the, the confirmation

1:04:12side of the short hair hasn't bled over to the short hair to kind of skew it a little bit. The Brittany's are really good at that as well. They keep their show and their hunting dogs and their field trial dogs pretty tight, pretty close. And there's not like a, if you see a pointer at Westminster, an English pointer, and you see one in the field, they look like totally two different breeds. The short hairs and the Brittany's have done a really good job of blending that hunting and confirmation together. Um, so even the Brittany's are really good. Uh, but I would,

1:04:47I would go with the short hair, but there again, find out what you like. Cause there's a lot of really good breeds out there. You say that the GSP statistically is going to be your best bet. And yet you've got to national champion with a setter and you currently have pointers. So make it make sense, Greg. Can I turn my camera around because I'm looking at my 20, 2005 Naster regional champion is rookie, my first short hair. So I won with him as well. But then when I got asked to judge a field trial

1:05:22outside of shoot to retrieve and I started to run an American field and I, there aren't short hair clubs around here and short hairs kind of have their own field trialing across the country and their own two clubs. My area was setters and pointers. And that's what, and I fell in love with pointers in 2008 is when I stopped running shoot to retrieve, but I won with him. So I, I'm pretty proud of him too. Yeah. No, I, I've, I'm madly in love with both setters and pointers. Those are the two

1:05:54that to me have risen to the top. I just, I can't get enough of them. I've seen so many of them hunt and their, their drive, their nose, their ability to, to hunt and to approach cover perfectly, to just stand it. Um, I mean, I have seen it so many times play out that to me, I don't know. I, I look at them and I say like, that's a sports car. That's a Ferrari out there. And it looks

1:06:24pretty damn good. Yeah. When I saw Daisy, I thought the same, but I didn't know that she was kind of a mix. The Intel from Onyx told me and I'm like, uh, no, she's got the intensity of a pointer too. So between Ben and I, we can help you out. Right. I, Greg, I tell you, I have looked at, I, I'm close. I'm very close. I think to, yeah, to bring it home another dog to add to the pack because Daisy

1:06:55can't put on the miles. I'm worried about the miles. And I think, you know, we're over an hour into this conversation already. So we won't dig into the nutrition side of it. I'm going to, uh, maybe Ruthann and I can dig into nutrition and some of that too. But, um, you know, just thinking about the wear and tear all the miles my dog has put on over the last five years of hunting. I think it's a great thing. Um, but I also, I think it's, I mean, I think it's going to keep her young because I'm out there putting the miles on too. And I think it keeps me young as well, Greg. I don't

1:07:28know if I'm right there or not, but it's better than laying around. You need to run around with her for the first 15 minutes and blow off some steam yourself and then see how she, but you think you'd have a great time with another one and time is probably right. Yeah. I think so too. Yeah. We're really close to it. Um, is there one final thought here before we wrap this up? I could talk about dogs all day. I'm fascinated by it. I mean, you really got me down this idea of thinking about the beagles and the herders and the different dogs, but it's just a reminder to us that these

1:08:03dogs are so skilled that we have today that we are so fortunate to have these breeds that have the ability that we barely, for the most part, most of us barely scratch the surface on what our dog can do out there. And it's what we put into them that ultimately will help them reach the pinnacle of what their mom and dad genetically gave them. Right. Right. And like I said earlier, sometimes what we can put into them is basically just being patient with them, you know, be committed to them, find out what breeds best for you, be patient with them. Um, and if, if it fits your

1:08:39needs, be it hunting, be it the grouse hunting, be it sharp tails, be it field trialing, you're going to have so much joy. I mean, it's brought so much joy. I mean, the places I've been and seen and got to, meet like yourself and people all across the country, even if you just do it at your local hunt club, you're going to meet a lot of great people, but be patient and don't rush. Yep. Yep. And, and being around other people with bird dogs, whether it's your local PFQF chapter, rough grouse society or whatever it might be, or go to a hunt test or anything, the more people that

1:09:14you're around, the more you see, the more you see, the more you can learn and ask questions. And before you know it, you just really get a grasp for what's out there. And if you're looking, I've had so many people, Greg, I know you have too, that ask, I'm looking for a dog. Which one should I get? And I'm like, Oh gosh, you know, we, what do you, how much time you got right now? What do you want to do? But ultimately it's a personal choice for everybody. But the more questions people ask, the more, um, prepared they are to make a wise decision for themselves. So I think that's a great

1:09:46thing to do. And it's just like looking online at some of the different trainers at different kennels out there and, and ask questions, go visit them. And you'll, you'll know when it feels right. You'll just know. And there's, there's people out there that have the knowledge. And when, when somebody has knowledge in the bird dog world and they, they start talking to you and then you watch their dogs and you see what their dogs are doing, you'll say, yeah, that's, that's right.

1:10:16That's, that's perfect for me and my family. Right. Don't be afraid to ask questions. And it's a commitment of a lifetime for that dog. I think George said it as well. It's not just send them out one year, get the training, bring them back. And they, you can just open the door every time. No, you need to, you know, tune them up or get them in shape or be committed to that dog. Mm-hmm. Well said, Greg, I appreciate your time. I'd like to do this again because there's, we just scratched the surface. We could really get into a lot more details with the dogs. I think

1:10:49if people are listening right now and they want to know more about Greg's world, the, the field trial, excuse me, the field trial world, the hunt test world, the different breeds that are out there. If there's anything that you're listening to specifically that you want us to talk further about, please just reach out. Let me know. We want to produce episodes that you want to hear us talk about. So, um, Greg has a wealth of knowledge. His team does as well. We're going to get into the, the nutrition side of things as well. Um, in future episodes coming up, hunting season,

1:11:21believe it or not, is going to be here pretty quick and we're all building up to that point. And we're here to help you do that as well. Big Al, you nailed it today. I mean, you were just your questions. I know. I was really, well, I was letting you talk. You guys were talking about important stuff that was way above my pay grade. No for pay today. We just got right to the business side of it. Greg, I appreciate you and your time and we'll, we'll definitely stay in touch. Uh, we'll be back next week. Al, we'll be back next week. I don't know. You tell me,

1:11:51I hope so. All right. Next week, Thursday, another episode of the flush podcast. We'll see you then.

1:12:01Bye. Bye. Bye.