Hoksey Boys

0:00All right, here we go. The Hoxie boys are back in the house. Nicholas Lirio, Kent Boucher, a.k.a. Sig Boucher. And that means we have some deep, meaningful topics to discuss. It might get heated in here. It might get controversial. It might get sentimental. That's right. We don't know. But what we do know is that we all care deeply about our landscape, wild places, and each other. So this conversation certainly will come from the heart, and it just might leave you with some food for thought that you can chew on about this wildlife. And as always, our episodes are supported by our sponsors, Onyx Hunt,

0:32Waltons, the Minnesota Horse and Hunt Club, HuntFishSD.com, Rufflin Kennels, Black Gold Dog Food, and by Game Virtual Shooting Simulators.

0:56All right, welcome to another episode of The Flush Podcast. I'm your host, Travis Frank. Big Al is our producer hiding behind the camera. I don't like people to have to see me. He turns the camera on us, but then he hides behind it. I'm a magical voice from the background that people don't see. There's several cameras here. You could easily turn one of them around. Yeah, I think so. I don't want to get too famous. Yeah, because at Pheasant Fest, somebody came up and they said, Big Al, I thought you were, I thought you would be bigger. Yeah. But that's like when you got a big guy and you call him tiny. Well, he said he's been going to the gym. Now

1:28we know why. He has been pumping iron. He gave him a little thing. It'd be a hard time. He comes in here hot every morning, just all worked up. And he wants to tell me every weight he lifted, how early he got up. I'd tell him the pounds. Sometimes they even go, I forgot the word. I'm American. I don't remember the European, the European, the metrics. Oh, kilograms. Kilograms. Sometimes I even tell him the kilograms. Yeah. Okay. Nicholas Lirio, Ken Poucher. Hey, good to see you. Thanks

1:58for having us. It was, uh, I just want to say. I'm doing this thing. I'm doing the silent thing that we just talked about. Okay. It almost worked. I was going to see who was going to start talking first because, okay. So we had a DNR officer in the office. This is a real hot tip. A couple of minutes ago, he had to leave, but it was so good. We just had lunch together, the four, five of us. And he said, if you stop talking, people just can't, they can't help themselves. They had to

2:33start talking. He goes, I can't even tell you how many tickets I have written by shutting my mouth. Yeah. By people. They just, they incriminate themselves. If you let them talk. Yeah. I was about to incriminate Kent. That's what I was about to do. Well, how many, how many, uh, of those tickets are probably associated with, uh, substances used while in the field. And so perhaps, and so, and so judgment is probably a little bit inhibited. That's, that's part of it, but there's an intimidation there. When an officer shows up, there is an intimidation that is it possible that I'm doing

3:05something wrong or if they are doing something wrong, the silence. I feel like if he's, if he's looking at me quiet, I feel like I let him down. You know, that's what I feel like I would think. Like, I feel like he's a disappointed dad, especially if the dad was in here, he was looking at me like that. I'd be like, I'm silent. I think it's like when a cop passes you on the road and you're like, Oh no, I hope he doesn't catch me. You always check you're like, they have somebody else pulled over. So like, they're obviously not going

3:35to pull up, just leave the person and come get you for doing five miles an hour over. But you're always like, Oh God, I got to slow down. And you're like a model citizen. You turn your turn signal on at like a quarter mile away. Like sometimes the cops are going faster over the speed limit, like faster than you are. But like, you're like, I, if I just go as fast as them, it's going to be wrong. I know. Or if a cop is going exactly the speed limit, that's scary. That's a scary cop. We're, we're getting derailed. But think about this for a second. The last time you got pulled over or got a ticket, I want to know what it

4:08was for. I'm going to tell you my story real quick because I just relived it. Not like relived it, but we had the daddy daughter dance last weekend in my hometown. So I took my two girls. I know. Adorable. The year before we, I took my daughters to the daddy daughter dance and I've done this now for however many years I've been taking my daughters to the first, my oldest went, I think she was like four and, um, we were dancing and having a great time. And then I said, Hey, you want to ditch this place and go get some ice cream? She's like, yeah. So we went to the

4:46local ice cream shop, you know, and now that's become our thing. We dance, we dance. And then we're like, Hey, you want to ditch this place and go get some ice cream? They know what's coming. You're making me miss my daughters. Yeah. So then last year we go into the coffee shop and we pull into this parking lot and we are cranking and singing all the way there after leaving the dance. Probably Shania Twain, man. I feel like a woman. Yes. That's our go-to. And so the coffee shop or the ice cream shop was closed. This is a Saturday night and they were

5:19closed. I said, all right, well, we'll go to, I think it was Dairy Queen or Culver's. And so I strapped my, at the time she was three into her car seat and my other daughter in the backseat and I hop in, the music's cranking and I look and for the life of me, I didn't put my blinker on as I came out in town. And it wasn't a highway. It was just a side street in town. And I didn't strap my seatbelt on either. Cause we were just going right down the road to the next ice cream

5:49shop. Lights turn on. I'm like, Oh my gosh, what did I just do? And the officer walks up and he's like, um, you know, I pulled you over and I said, I think, I think I pulled out without putting a blinker on. He's like, you did, you did not put a blinker on. I was like, Oh my gosh. And I was, and, um, he said, and you didn't, you were wearing your seatbelt and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I look at him like a hundred percent. Right. You are absolutely right. He's like, what are you guys

6:19doing? I go, I had two cute little girls in their dress and I'm wearing a suit, you know? And I'm like, just had the daddy daughter dance. Yeah. And Travis is actually crying. I'm like, honestly, we were just jamming out to music, having fun and the girls were singing. I was singing and we're just, the ice cream shop is closed. We're going to the next one. He looks at me. He's like, you guys just take it easy tonight. I was like, I should appreciate that. I am very sorry. I appreciate that.

7:01It's not a double check. Every time you turn onto a side road. No, I crank the music and just let it ride. You know, you know, it's funny. I think I know what ice cream shop you're talking about. And the last time I got pulled over was maybe a mile down the road from where you would have gotten pulled over. They're hanging out there. Same guy. You know, that T in the road over there where the roundabout is now, like to go on, to go back to Watertown. And, uh, I, I rolled the stop sign a little bit. It had just snowed. So that was kind of my excuse, but there was no snow on the road. I rolled it a little bit and we come back from

7:34dominoes. And all of a sudden I see the lights. I'm like, Oh, he was like high. He was hiding way down the road. And he pulls me over. He's like, so, uh, no, I pulled you over. I'm like, yeah, sorry. My car, it doesn't do very good in the ice. You know, it's a manual. It spins a lot and, uh, it just snowed. So I didn't want to get stuck. And he's like, I didn't have my insurance on me either. I don't know why I didn't have it in the car. No, no, I didn't. And, uh, he didn't ever ask for my insurance actually, ironically. And he's like, Oh yeah, yeah, that's okay. No ice on the road, by the way. It was completely dry. And he's like, Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. I get that. Uh,

8:08just, just make sure not to do it again. You can, you can, you can have a good day. I was like, crazy. Didn't ask for my insurance. Yeah. You have any good stories? Last time you got pulled over. I have a theory for why Ken's got, is this a regular thing? Yes. I'm getting profiled because I have an old truck. I think it's, it's, well, it's not just the color, but what it's got a little bit of rust and it's a Honda Ridgeline. It's silver. Oh, it's silver. Cause if you have a red, if red is the one that, that they see it, I have a bright red

8:40car. So they take one look at that thing and they're like, that dude is way too old to be driving. That guy needs to be off the road right away. I think they think I'm like a meth head because it's a 20 year old truck. I picture Kent driving 17 miles below the speed. Like that's how he's deep in thought thinking about these major things in life because he's thinking and not paying attention. No, I could see him, you know, like my grandpa, he was well under the speed limit. Why are you comparing me to your grandpa?

9:13Because you, you think all these super deep, deep philosophical. People from your generation.

9:21Actually. He's got an old soul, doesn't he? Yeah, he does. Yeah, that's true. Kent, um, after he started working at Hoxie, he had just transitioned from a job. He couldn't stand to, uh, Hoxie native seeds and he loved the job. He's like, you know, I drive slower now. I used to be always anxious and like, I need to get to the next place I'm going. And he's like, I literally drive slower. I think it's just our culture. We drive really fast right now. Everyone's in a rush. Everyone is mad at the person in front of them for messing up their plans. And it's just the pace. When I, when I'm coming up to a stoplight, if it hits red or yellow or whatever, before

9:54I get there and you feel that like, Oh, I'm frustrated. I didn't hit it. That is a sign for me to be like, I'm not okay. Something's actually wrong. I need to figure it out. Oh gosh. Yeah. So the Hoxie boys. I think it's mostly just digestive health. That's the problem when he gets to a stoplight and he's frustrated. He's got to go. Something's wrong. That's not where I was going. So the deep inside is wrong. It's broken. So the last time I felt that it was a week ago tonight because I was speaking at a banquet and the dinner had just concluded. I had

10:27dinner and I'm supposed to go up and speak, but I don't know exactly when I'm supposed to go. And I hear the rumbling in my stomach. My wife was there and I'm like, honey, please pray for me right now. Because I think, I don't know that I'm, something could happen when I go up on stage. I don't know. I'm going to have the anxiety of having to get up and speak in front of me. We're about to have a viral moment. 500 people in the building. I got to go stand up there and speak and I might be running off the stage at any moment. 500 people heard

10:57me speak that night and well, 6 million watched the video after. Can I derail for just one incredible story? Is that, is that okay? There's okay. So this guy, I knew him personally. I knew him. I know him quite well. This really did happen. It's not me. It was not Ken. I probably was not Ken. It was not. Whatever the story is, it wasn't me. It was not anybody that's ever been on our podcast. He's an incredible guy and he was a missionary in Thailand for a while. And what they would do is they would do like arts. They did plays and they would

11:29do, and they would invite people and then they would just love on them. And he was in a play on a, basically the equivalent of a town square, but their culture is a little different. So he was in a play on a town square and he was supposed to be Jesus in the stations of the cross and, and, uh, well, right. They're doing some worship songs and then he's about to go up and he, all of a sudden, boom, it hits him. And he goes to the lady in charge. Dude, how long do we have before I got to go to the bathroom? Just, just hold on. And she's like, no, you're going up right now. You have to go up there. So he said it was the

12:02most miserable time of his life. He was like, I've literally never had more pain in my body than having to hold that in while trying to like act out this thing for 30 minutes. Well, this is only the precursor. This is only the precursor of the story. Ladies and gentlemen, he, when, as soon as he done, he jumps off that stage and he runs to, I know where this is going. Back bent, you know, he's running around, he's trying to find them in Thailand and he's like town squares. They had these at the time they had these like outhouses

12:32basically. And it could fit one person. And he, um, he finally finds one and he literally kicks the door. He like kicks the door in, pushes it in, turns around. He pulls up his robe, right? He's wearing a robe. He's pretending to be Jesus. And he turns around and he, and he, and he poops all over the place and, and just, just explodes this bathroom. I'm sorry about your podcast, by the way. Uh, and, um, this one's not monetized. No, no, no, no. We're not, we're not, we're not there yet. And he gets done and he's so

13:05relieved and he hears a little sound behind him. No, no. He turns around and there is the whole lady, which is so horrible, but we need to remember that. Wait a minute. How could he not know that? I mean, who stands there? No, no, not in these like old outhouses. You kind of like bend over the pot, but so like a biffy, like a little tiny space, like a three by five space.

13:37No, no, no. They're bigger than that. And then they have like little stalls that you like turn around and, and, uh, and, um, so, and the lady's like small, she's like a small Asian lady and he's like a big white guy. Right. And so, uh, you have to remember from this lady's point of view, what happened was Jesus came bursting into her stall and turned around and pooped all over the place. And this guy who's a missionary is like, I never spoke to her again. I never went to look for

14:08I just said, I'm so sorry. Oh my God. As if that covers it. I'm so sorry. Every hunter has a story probably that they could tell in the woods about where things went wrong. We could really derail this conversation. Yes. Oh yeah. All right. Okay. So there are, uh, there are several antlers. If you're watching this video, I think we were, we're talking about people that watch podcasts before. I don't know if I was going to put that in or not. I don't, I don't trust them with anything.

14:40I don't trust him with anything. Oh no, I won't put that in. Sure. Okay. Sure. Sure. Sure. But if you're watching, you see these, there's a bunch of antlers here, right? There's, uh, some, uh, duck and goose bands that are hanging on the tines of these antlers and they all have a story to tell, you know, and I wasn't planning on talking about this, but when you can't, I know you love hunting for sheds. Oh yeah. And you know, I just brought these ones in here. That is a monster set right there. And you're like, Oh, look at that. And then I said, Oh, let me show you this one. And

15:13then we looked at that monster right behind you right there. Some of the best mass I've ever seen. That's crazy. It was heavier than it looked and it looks heavy. Yeah. Grab that one. Yeah. Well, you pick that up, pick that bad boy up. That thing is just unbelievable. And what I guess I, I, I think every, everything, no, I didn't find that one. I think Aaron Oktenberg found that he tripped on it while filming a pheasant hunt. Wow. And I want to say Kansas or Nebraska. That looks like a Kansas. It might've been a quail hunt. It might've been a pheasant. Either way he was filming and he tripped on one of the tines and then he's like, Holy crap. So he brought

15:47it back. That's incredible. But if you look behind us here, I mean, there's all kinds of different things. Like why do we as hunters keep this stuff? Well, there was, when was this? Maybe a couple of years ago, I think there was, you know, paleolithic man. They found like a cave where there's some paintings. I was just about to say, I, he's thinking. This is why you drive $17,000. He sends me articles all the time. And I'm like, dude, that's like 20,000 words. I'm not going to read that thing.

16:20Hey, you know what? Nothing wrong with being educated. Yeah, that's right. Thank you, Al. Thank you. Not that I am, but nothing wrong with it. Yeah. Yeah. Some of us just don't read about poop stories.

16:32Paleo, this was like in a cave where, you know, or, you know, thousands of years ago, humans were maybe not necessarily living in there, but stashing things, you know, a cache or something. And I believe they found some, uh, some like antlers and things that somebody had been stashing in there. And it was just, the idea was, man, this has been going on a long time where stuff just catches our eye. There's, there's gotta be some kind of psychology behind antlers for why they catch our eye. We're so interested.

17:05Something about it. Yeah. So that one came from just south of the Canadian border. That's right there. This, this one right here, this dead head, I tripped on this one in Lemon, South Dakota, which is right by the North Dakota border. And I didn't bring it home with me because I, I needed a tag to take that out because it's attached to the skull and I didn't have that. So then the landowner is like, no, take it. And I go, I, I legally can't, and

17:36I'm not going to risk this. But about a week later, I got this in the, in the mail in a big box, random box showed up cardboard box and I opened it and here's this rack inside of it was a tag that he had. Yep. The DNR signed it and he sent it as a gift. Uh, that is a chucker feather and a chucker foot from Nevada. Ryan and Jace Newmarker. This is Nicholas, you know what is going on here? It's a, it's a, whatchamacallit game. Um, cribbage? Cribbage.

18:09Thank you. That is a cribbage board made out of a caribou antler. Yeah. How come we've never played cribbage here? You know how, you know how to play? I know how to play cribbage. Oh my gosh. Quit the podcast right now. We got to play. That could be a podcast. That's a Minnesotan thing for sure. That's a cabin. You're up at the cabin or up at the lake or something. Yeah. And so we got, we got snowed in, in, uh, Alaska lodge probably 12, 13 years ago. And we played cribbage for three days while the storm. Yeah. We didn't really leave. It was a 12 by 12 square, about an hour plane ride in to the bush. And we played cribbage

18:46for days on a moose antler. And a couple of months later, I get that in the mail from the guide up there. I gotta say, I gotta say Travis, you got an eye for like the little bit of extra pizzazz. These little, uh, iron cut nails here. Just, it's just a nice little touch. I didn't do that buddy. I didn't do that. But again, I mean, you just look at some of this, this right here, this is a shotgun shell from a hunt in Kansas. Those are Bob White quail feathers and these are dried, um, Forbes. Yeah. I think us conservationists, we're not

19:18calling them weeds or calling them Forbes. Looks like you got some, uh, sweet comb flower there and, uh, some switchgrass. And that's gotta be an aster at the top. No goldenrod. Yeah. I think this is a goldenrod. Yep. It's definitely an aster though. Oh, well, goldenrod is an aster, right? It's in the family. It's the aster family. Travis, you see how easy it is to get content out of these two. You just hold the plant up and they just go to town. Notice how I didn't say anything. You holding that shell casing up. Yeah. That reminds me of something I just found in the woods while I was shed hunting. I went

19:52back to one of the farms that we hunted with you and there may have been someone who had a pretty easy, uh, shot at a rooster after we'd been walking all day, waiting for a rooster and, uh, a certain and Ariel. No, no, no. Nicholas L. No, I think it might've been me who, uh, who, uh, missed. And, uh, I found, uh, or actually my friend who I was shed hunting with found, uh, one of my shell casings and I'm like, I know the exact moment when this, that was a miss

20:24and it's going to be on national TV. It was nice to be able to pick up some of my litter. Cause I couldn't find the shell when I shot at the, was that in the cedars? Was that when we were walking in that? Yeah. Yeah. That was a thicket, man. That was a beautiful rooster. I remember vividly seeing it fly right over your head. I shot twice. Cause it like went around. I totally came back and said, I'll give that guy. He was toying with you. Oh man. Okay. So Hoxie native seeds. That's where

20:56you guys work every single day. Nicholas, you are now the proud owner of it. The prayer farm podcast. These gentlemen have been on our podcast now for three years. We've been having conversations and you guys are kind enough to drive all the way up here today. You're warriors. I know you woke up at 4am to drive all the way up here along the way. You made a stop and recorded another podcast. We're going to do another one after this. That's right. The world of podcasting. My goodness. Did you ever expect that you would be doing this? And for people that have listened prior, we do have

21:29very loyal listeners. So I know that a lot of them have heard our conversations in the past. They love it. They tell me they love having you guys on. I love it because if you can't tell, we just have fun. Well, we get to meet them whenever we go to Pheasant Fest and we're at one of your events. We get to meet a lot of your listeners and they're all great people. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. There's a real community there that you deserve a lot of credit for bringing together around your show. Thank you. I don't know who I heard originally heard this phrase from. I mean, it's kind of a touchy

22:04feely thing. So I probably heard it from Nick, but it's like speaking words of life. You know what I mean? That have you heard that phrase? Like speak words of life to people. Something that I think includes hope, optimism, glass half full type mentality. And you can be guaranteed to find that every time you tune into this show. Not that you're, not that it's all life. I was going to go the other direction today because I am, I am fired up. But I was going to say, it's not

22:38that you're always saying, Oh, life is all unicorns and rainbows and there's no bad in the world, but you finish with a, a positive, we can do this kind of mindset. Well, and I firmly believe, Ken and I talk about this all the time. What's inside of you replicates itself outside of you. And I think that speaks highly to you and anyone listening to this podcast who is regularly listening, getting a lot of Travis in their life. That's a lot of, I'm sure you're going to Midwestern slap this away, but there's a lot of goodness in that. And, and listening

23:08to you guys. Dang it. Now I'm never going to hear the end of that. I mean, you do have this producer and he's, you know, you know, I'm just kidding. I keep, I keep Travis, Travis young. That's why you do a great job out. And, and I'm always, I, I, when I, when I tune in, I, I'm always, I'm always amazed at how well your dynamic works together, you know, because Al, you don't really come from much of a hunting background, right? I'm just here for comic relief. How dare you be on a hunting podcast and not hunt. What would you say you

23:42do here? Uh, you know, I'm actually pizza with us earlier. I ate the client's pizza. That's right, man. Well, we, we, we appreciate you. And I think there's a handful of people that hunting as a whole, um, should be proud that they are some of the leaders and you're definitely one of them. Oh my gosh, you guys, I didn't expect any of that, but I appreciate it. I listened to your podcast because of all the same reasons. And I love having you guys back in here and having conversations and we stay in touch pretty regularly outside of

24:13turning a microphone on, but just because you see life in a way that I really appreciate and really respect. And, you know, you'll say things like, I still remember the first time we did a show, it said, what do you want to leave us with? Nicholas said, I think smiles. Remember that smiles make the world a better place. And when you think about it, you know, that's the kind of attitude you guys bring the exact same kind of thing. And we're talking about stuff that, you know, land and, and grass and seeds and water quality and, and habitat

24:47and wildlife and hunting and all that stuff. But at the base of it, we're, we're talking about life here too. And you guys do a very good job of keeping your listeners educated. You entertain us. The stories are awesome. Except for when you talk about the Packers at some point. So I've heard that come up in a conversation at one point. I just, I remember listening to one where, yeah, you said something and Sig was like, Bears suck. And then I texted the group text. I said, yeah, they do.

25:18So not the Bears, the Packers, the Bears are okay. I'm a Bears fan for better and for worse. It seems like it's for the better though here lately. Yeah. This one year, not as good as the fact that I've been a Seahawks fan for quite a while. Oh, good for you.

25:34You're going to tell us you were born in Seattle. I was born in Seattle. See, there you go. That's weird. I thought you were a Packers fan last year. Can I just undercut your life history? Your very birth. When the hunt is on, your dog's performance matters. Every step, every sprint, every retrieve. It takes stamina, strength, and focus. And that starts with what's in their bowl. Black Gold dog food is crafted for active dogs, delivering the balanced nutrition they need to power through the season and beyond. Because a good diet isn't just fuel for today's hunt.

26:09It's the foundation for all season performance. Visit blackgoldpet.com to learn more and find a retailer near you. Black Gold. Unleash Adventure. I get asked all the time about places to hunt in South Dakota. These questions usually come from out-of-town hunters that want the real South Dakota pheasant hunting experience for wild birds. My answer is Aberdeen. Aberdeen is a hub for out-of-town bird hunters. They have dog and hunter-friendly hotels and lodges where you can bring your own dogs and clean your own birds right there on site. They have thousands of acres of public land within

26:42a short drive of town, and there are wild pheasants on all of them. I know this because I've hunted several of these properties myself. I've seen those big flushes where the birds get up in waves, and it's awesome. In addition to the state and federal properties, they also have the Aberdeen Pheasant Coalition properties in the area that are open to public hunting. When you look at a map of publicly accessible places to hunt for wild birds in South Dakota, and you zoom into the Aberdeen area, you'll see what I mean. To learn more about Aberdeen's pheasant hunting opportunities and get a free hunting guide, head to HuntFishSD.com.

27:15Hey, Flush fans. The Minnesota Horse and Hunt Club has expanded into South Dakota. Oak Tree by Horse and Hunt is the ultimate South Dakota pheasant hunting lodge. 15,000 square feet with private bedrooms, 6,000 premier acres, full hospitality and bar, and open to the public. Two-night, three-day packages September through March are available. Book your next hunt today. Visit HuntOakTree.com. That's HuntOakTree.com.

27:42I don't know how long into this conversation we are. Oh, man. Like 24-ish. 24 minutes and we haven't even gotten to anything. Yeah, sorry. Okay, hold on a second. Time out, guys. The Farm Bill just dropped the anti... It's not anti-hunting. It kind of is anti-hunting language that was inserted into it, but basically it would have put a damper or made it illegal to do some sort of training techniques in the... It was with live birds, right? The live birds. Yep. Yep. Yep. So the language was extremely vague, written into it for something

28:18else, but then it would affect us, dog training, and hunting with dogs. And so that has been dropped out of the Farm Bill, which is a big deal. Wow. The news just came out. That just happened. Yeah. That just happened. Because Pheasant Forever, they were kind of the big ones going toe-to-toe with it, saying like, we need to... This cannot be in there, right? So it's interesting, and I want to get into this topic a little bit more because there's a lot happening in each state and then in Washington, D.C. Certainly, I'm fired up about the Boundary

28:53Waters and the news that just broke there. But what we see in our algorithm, guys, is really always one-sided. And for a while there, my algorithm kept showing me on social media, because this is my world, this is the world that I'm in, that everyone's like, they're coming for hunting. They're anti-hunters are at it again. We need to stop this and everything. And they were talking about this in the Farm Bill, the language that was written in there. And so I kept seeing it all

29:26over the place. And then I had a conversation with somebody at Pheasant Forever, and they said, just so you know, we do have people in Washington, D.C., and they're having conversations with people there. We're grateful for a Farm Bill. We do not want to derail a Farm Bill. We need a Farm Bill. This is language that we're working on, and we do believe that it's going to be taken out. And so that gave me a lot of peace early on when this first was announced that there was potential for this to be included in the Farm Bill. So now they did follow up on it, and they did take that

30:01up, which is a huge thing for us in this space. And grateful that we have people that understand it, that can communicate it. And then what we think is the right thing to be done has been done. Now you look at the boundary waters. The announcement just came out that the Senate voted to allow the potential for mining near the edge of the boundary waters. And I actually have camped on the lake that they're the shoreline of the lake where this proposed mine is going to be, and it's

30:33at the headwaters. And so while it's not inside the boundary waters canoe area wilderness, it is on the edge and it flows through it all in the Rainy River watershed, in the Voyagers National Park. I mean, just like it could potentially impact one of the most unbelievable gems in North America and the world that we still have right here. And so my algorithm, I come back to this, my algorithm is 100% pissed off about this. And that's how I feel. But I think, you know, I'm trying to wrap my head

31:11around this. Okay. There's two sides to every story. So what is the reason for it? You know, because why are they not listening to the American people? Why are they not listening to the voices of the opposition, which are so much louder? And so many more people are saying, we do not want this. You are an elected official elected to represent us. Why are you not listening? There's not people saying, yes, we want this. We want this. But I'm not hearing it because the algorithm tells me only one side of the story, you know, and you guys are the deep thinkers. So I think I should

31:45go quiet here and let you guys fill us off. Can I say something, even though I'm not as deep of a thinker as I am before they get deep? Yeah. I agree with you. My algorithm has been mostly that, but Minnesota Bound has made a post about it and people have made posts about it. And I see a lot of people saying, okay, well, in Canada, they have a good mining industry. You know what? They can, they can regulate it. And a lot of people saying, oh, well, this would help the economy, everything like that. The only thing is it's a Chilean mining company. It's not an American mining company. If it was an American mining company, I could kind of understand, like,

32:19I, just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean I can understand the economic impacts of it, but it's, it's a Chilean mining company. It's not like it's helping really, it's really helping us in any way, in my opinion, but I don't know. There's so many facets of this story, right? So one side of the Senate is celebrating. This is a great victory for the American people. And the other side is furious. This is a absolute horrendous day. And I love that place. I've been going there for over 25 years. I think it's a treasure and I want it to be protected forever.

32:51That's where I stand on it. So I'm trying to understand where are we get, how do we get to this place? You, we only hear one says, so we only preach to the choir. We talk to our friends that they feel the exact same way about it, you know, and then there's the other side that's probably doing the exact same thing about this particular topic. This happens every day in all sorts of political walks of life out there. But you look at who voted for what, and it's such a hard, this group voted in favor of mining. This group did not, but they're not necessarily voting based on

33:25the people that they represent. They're just staying in the party lines. Why are we at this point? I heard that especially for this bill, that that was a big thing that people behind the scenes were saying they didn't agree with it, but still voted for it to stay within the party lines. Yeah. I think there's, you know, so much more to politicking than what we ever see and could even possibly comprehend. And I think that that's, that's a huge part of it. You know, as far as,

33:56you know, deals being made, Hey, you know, I'm, I'd feel, you know, see the old, how important is this to you? I don't know. It's kind of, I guess, well, it's really important to me. And I know next month we're going to be talking about this, which is really important to you. And you give me some support here and I'll be remembering you and you're important. You know, I imagine there's, that's just speculative, but I would imagine there's a lot of that. Yeah. I would imagine there's, there's a lot of that that goes on and you know, the, the power of the party lines is

34:28obviously powerful enough to where it's almost laughable to call us the United States of America anymore. You know, there we're so divided along party lines on almost everything that, um, to the point that some families don't get together at holidays anymore because they can't agree. They they're so heated that they can't have conversations and look at both sides. And the only reason like to the point that it destroys us, we, we obey the party line and most people want most of the same

35:02things. And, and I think that we would do well to remember that. I think we would do well. Um, so much of campaigning now is to remind us of how bad we have it. But in reality, we had a lot of good going on and there's, there's such an abundance in, in so many areas of our lives. We've never as a society here in America had it better. Right. Yeah. As a whole. Would you guys agree? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Most in most, in most things that are, are quantifiable. Yes. I mean, hard labor

35:40that our ancestors had to endure to survive. Yeah. We don't even, we can't even grasp some of that at this point in our lives, how simple we've made life and how easy it is to survive. Yeah. You know, but at the cost of what we're seeing some of that now too, my, my, and that's where I'd say we don't, we, the areas where we are lacking, but we fail to put our finger on those, on those, uh, areas, you know, the, the, um, things that we have lost as a, as a result, as, as fallout for having the

36:18comforts that we have. Um, uh, we can, we can play, uh, you know, a bajillion hours of youth sports, um, for, you know, 15 years of our kids upbringing. But as a result, we have way less time around the dinner table as a family or, or, so there's, there's trade-offs in there that in some ways we probably aren't better, but overall life is good here in America. And it has been for quite some time. And, uh, that certainly are areas that need to improve. And I would even, I would even say that

36:53life is not equally good for all people in America. And we should try to, to close that gap where we can. And especially as we look back in history, you know, life was, life was pretty good in the 1950s for guys like me, but not for, you know, black people living in the South. And thankfully we're, you know, closing that gap. And, and, uh, so we certainly aren't perfect here, but we've had things, we've had things pretty good for a pretty long time. And when we, when we see things like

37:27the boundary waters, um, mining deal get passed, a lot of that comes from the idea of you don't have enough. This is going to be worth it because it's going to make your life better. And you should be angry that someone out there is trying to hold out on you and not allow you to tap into this so that you can have, you know, X, Y, and Z that will make your life better. And instead we should be saying, wow, we already got so many good things that we should be content with by nature. What's next? What's next? What can I get next? I do it more and more. It's greed. It's yeah, it's money

38:02and greed. I mean, we don't, if, if we save the boundary waters and I don't get a new iPhone, I'm okay. Well, you're okay. We're all going to be okay. I've been hearing people are like, oh, well, your electric car that you're driving needs minerals that they're going to mine in the boundary. Okay. There's hundreds of other mines. So we've talked about this many times. It's not ours. It's just our turn. Right. You know, the cost of what we have taken from this earth is showing itself. Yeah. I, I have a few points and, and I want to be really clear. I sent two

38:37emails, um, to senators saying, vote no against this. So that's where, that's where I personally stand on. Good old Nick virtue signal. Yeah. You know me, I gotta let people know that I'm better than Kent, but I'll, I'll take you back first to your algorithm point. I was speaking with someone, um, very high level professional on, um, Facebook ads. And, uh, she may or may not have worked for a big tech company before she joined a marketing agency. And she's her name may or may not have

39:08been, I don't want to get anybody in trouble. And, and she said, Nicholas, the algorithm isn't about just showing you topics or different kinds of people that agree with you. They track what colors on the screen. When the thing first comes up, they track the cadence that they talk in. You're not, you're not, it's not just topics coming out of you. You are actively being brainwashed. She said, look at your phone. If you are on any social media, any social media, everyone look at your phone screen time. If you're on any social media, 20 minutes or more for more than half of

39:42the days, which is about every single human in the United States, 98% of us are more, you are brainwashed and we need to admit that we're brainwashed. And because everyone is brain, that's how our, that's how our brains I mean, uh, it's the path of least resistance. Our brains want to be brainwashed. So that information comes easier to us. We don't want to struggle to remember it every single time we're coming up. So we want some base levels. Well, you can actually reset those base levels. That's why those cheesy tapes in the eighties that would sit there and be like, you are amazing. But they,

40:13they actually worked for people because you're literally brainwashing your brain to believe something. And that happens on social media at a level we can't even comprehend. And so we need to admit to ourselves, like I Nicholas Lehrer, I am brainwashed. What am I brainwashed with? So it's no longer a question of, I don't want to be brainwashed. I don't want, unless you've got a stronger stance on social media than I do. And maybe you do. And that's amazing. Unless that's the case, uh, you're brainwashed and now ask yourself, what are you brainwashed with? I think that's really important to go into it. But yes, my algorithm is filled with people that are angry.

40:46The argument that I hear is, uh, that is proposed. The only one that makes sense to me is an economic argument because there is very strong evidence that money does not make you happier after $86,000 a year. The study was done. It was $72,000 a year, but it was about eight years ago. So that's now $86,000 a year, 86,000. With inflation? Yep, exactly. And, and the reason... Man, that's, that is depressing. 72,000 is now 86.

41:18Oh yeah, yeah. Well, and, and, and the reason is because 86 takes the stress of providing, right? You're not, you're, unless you're way over spender, you're not worried about your mortgage getting paid. You're not worried about your food. You're not worried about your car. If your car breaks down, you probably have a little bit of money in the bank account and you're paying your healthcare, right? So everything else is, and then past that, I'm not saying it's just greed. I think there are people that are millionaires that steward their money really, really well. I've seen it, you know, uh, I'm not one of them, but I'm just not a millionaire.

41:51Uh, but, um, so that's the second part. You are a millionaire. Yeah. I just don't steward it really well. You know, I got into, he's been playing us this whole time. I get, I got into conservation because how much money? Oh, uh, and so that's the best argument is like, Hey, there's actually, this will bring up the baseline of the United States. There is an argument that billionaires are making way more money than the lower class. That is totally true, but billionaires never advance without the lower class. Also their baseline also going up. I do think that the wealthiest are

42:27getting wealthier faster than the lower class are getting wealthier, but the lower class in the United States, the lowest class used to die of starvation, right? And so do they have enough money in their bank account to pay their phone bill all the time? No, they do not. And that is a problem. And I think not to give handouts, but we should help with actual system solutions in there. But in terms of quality of life, they don't die of starvation anymore. Nobody in the United States dies of starvation. Uh, if they're able to make the choice, I think there are some, there are some issues with like, um, children not being old enough to make wise decisions and their parents

43:00making very poor decisions, but anyone is able to make the choice. They don't. And so there is a baseline that is wealthier than it was before. So I'm not a big fan of, I'm not a big fan of arguing about how much more wealthy people have than me. But all that being said, I do think that it is a huge, huge net negative on with the boundary waters. We just can't quantify it because Kent and I talk about this all, all the time. If your quality of life is always measurable on a

43:32graph, you're, you're tracking the wrong things, right? The, a lot of your quality of life comes with Kent talks about sitting around with his family and thinking I am wealthy, like watching his kids play. And that really struck me when he first said that. So I, I, I started to try to think about times in my life where I could go, man, I I'm wealthy. All of my siblings like hanging out with each other and we call each other and I get to think, man, I'm wealthy. Do you guys have deep conversations as a family? My, oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we argue, but yeah, we have really,

44:02you work through it. Yeah. I just think that's really a beautiful thing because I know so many that can't, if, if this topic came up and there's opposition one way or another, it turns red versus blue. It just, there's no way to listen to the other side. You're, you're not listening to the answer. You're just listening to the question. And then you're trying to figure out how you're going to punch back and it ends terribly. Yeah. Ken and I were just talking about how we were some, we're the buttheads in our family sometimes, you know, cause we're, we're so strong willed and we have such strong opinions and we're like, do you hear what happened

44:35in the boundary waters? And our family's like, all right, well the chicken's done. So let's sit down. Well, um, I hope you're okay with me sharing this Kent, but we were texting a couple of weeks ago, just about life and family and kids. And you know, there's just been a lot discussed in Iowa lately about the cancer and the rates going up and it being tied to agriculture and farming. And you saying, I, as a father start to feel like, am I endangering my kids? I mean, this isn't the exact

45:10words, but this is the gist of the conversation that we had by keeping them here. Am I endangering my family by living here? That's going through your mind. I hope it's okay that I, I share that, but that's, that's still a real thing for you. I mean, that is absolutely as a father and you have young kids. You are thinking about just because of what is being put on the soil in the state of Iowa. Yeah. I mean, yeah, absolutely right. And the fact that this isn't new news to us. I mean,

45:42sure. We have more data that's come up. Is it that there's, it's quantifiable right now. There are reports coming out saying these counties in particular have the highest rates of cancer. Yeah. Right. We have that. There's a, there's a map you can literally go on and you know, it's, you can kind of toggle over the counties and see what your, I think they break it down by, uh, um, ethnicity and, and gender. And you can see what is your probability of developing cancer in your,

46:14in your County or, you know, just the prevalency for your, your dynamic. And, um, we have, the second highest cancer rate that this people have been saying that for a while. This most recent study just, you know, confirms that. And I've, I've heard it said both we have the fastest growing or the second fastest growing. And, um, most of the other States, I believe have a shrinking cancer prevalency. The only ones that are growing similarly, they have, um, very high tobacco and

46:50alcohol use. So they have other things that are going on there, um, that, uh, are heavily correlated like Kentucky has a very high rate, but they've cancer. Yes. But they've got some real impoverished areas where it's heavy use in tobacco. Well, there's a lot of environmental hazards in Kentucky too, because of the days of all the strip strip mining that was going on there and things. So I would, I mean, that's speculative on my end, but I I've always viewed it that way. And I believe West Virginia is another one of the highest prevalencies and that's another mining. I think they're number one actually for their cancer. They also have a high poverty rate

47:23too. Yeah. But I, not to cut you off, I was just the only one in that echelon of cancer rate that we actually, we actually smoke and drink less than the, by far than the average state or per capita. Well, and that I would, I would, and the thing about smoking and drinking is I would almost expect that rate to be in decline for almost every state because of how much money has been put on the, you know, when we were kids dare, you know, the, that kind of, that kind of, uh, yeah. And the, you know, remember the commercials, the, the don't

47:56use tobacco, you know, the, the cowboy who's singing through the, you know, the little, uh, Oh yeah. I remember that on his neck. Yeah. You know, so there's been a lot of that messaging and it's been successful. Less people smoke now that I, I, I remember when they had smoking sections in the restaurants, we were kids or if you went to a lot of kids, my age, don't even really drink anymore. I mean, that's a restaurant for another topic for rent, for bars and stuff too, but yeah, people, my age, my generation don't really smoke or drink anymore. Yeah. And field parties are down. I'm hearing this is actually a topic that came

48:28up about two weeks ago amongst some other friends of mine that I graduated with. We had some ragers. Let me tell you. I wasn't always, I think it depends where you live though, where you grow up. Like I feel like if you grow up in the country, it just happens. Cause that just, I don't know. That's the culture of what people do. The problem is everyone knows where everyone's at right now. Life 360. I know where my kids are at all times. I know that's true. There's no sneaking out. You can't get away from that. I mean, we had some major parties, but right now you can have a party for like five minutes and every cop. I feel

48:58like that. The, the life of the 60 thing is another part. We could, you could do a whole podcast on that, but like how, how do you use it? Do you just have it just in case for your kids? Like when they're teenagers, are you gonna like monitor them heavy or do you just have it just in case? Have you listened to Jonathan Haidt stuff on it? No. The Anxious Generation? Yeah. No. Highly recommend that. But these, these, these children don't throw the parties anymore because they're afraid that anything they do or say is going to be recorded. Yeah. And cause I asked a couple of the parents and teachers in school, I go, do they do the parties that we used to? Cause we had some, we had some fun, you know? And

49:31they're like, no, unfortunately kind of, cause it's like, it's part of being a kid. Right. I mean, anybody listening right now probably has some great memories from some shenanigans. My mom back in high school, a good point one time when I got in trouble for something and I was like, well, you can put a tracker on my phone if you want. Like, I just want to go hang out with my friend. She's like, why would I, why would I put a tracker on your phone? Like I learned from making mistakes. Like you're a kid. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna watch where you go all the time. Like it's your own life. You got to make those decisions to learn from anxious generation. And I don't have any kids, so I can't relate, but anxious generation summed

50:02up in one sentence that kids are way under monitored on screens and way over monitored everywhere else. That's interesting. I never thought about it like that. That's a, that's a, yeah, that's a good point. Okay. So that is something that any parent should hear and do something about it. Now the question is, will they? Okay. So I'm going to apply this exactly into the cause for rising cancer rates in, in Iowa. Okay. We know what's causing it.

50:35Yeah. We know what's causing it. Yeah. Are we going to do anything about it? Well, you, you say that we know what's causing it. And I think, you know, the old gun to your head, tell me what you think is really causing it. I would agree with you that, that the answer would come out. However, there's such a heavy, anything that would suggest that the way agriculture is going in Iowa, isn't good for Iowa is, uh, the, it's the underdog point of view, right? Those who hold the

51:07power, even if it's, even though I think that the number of people in Iowa who feel like what you just said is true. And it would say that, yeah, I think, I think ag, you know, I don't, I don't have anything against farmers, but I think in this case, this isn't good for us. I think most people in Iowa would agree with that. However, the powers that be the, the biggest, deepest pocketed lobbyists in our state who hold the most influence from a legislative outcome standpoint, they at least

51:44tell themselves they aren't convinced that that is the case. And they lobby to protect things staying the way they are. Because it's producing and it's producing well. And it's providing for them. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's paying their bills and it's, it's growing their wealth. And the trade-off is all of these problems that were concerned about. And, and now we're to the point where, um, it's, it's a concern. I'm not the only person who's had this thought of, am I doing right by my kids

52:17having them live here? I, I, I've had this conversation just off the top of my head with at least two other people of their thinking about leaving the state. But the thing is, it's not just Iowa. I mean, if I, if I look at the Minnesota map, where is cancer rates the highest? Southwest farm country. I mean, it's, it's the same thing. And that's a big question. Where would you even go? You're going to go from the, the second worst cancer rate to the third worst. You know what I mean? It's like, you, you just totally pick up and move across the country.

52:49Okay. So we're talking about this. We know the value of wetlands and grassland. We know that 95% of them have disappeared so we can grow row crops. That's, that's factual. Right. So now we're trying to keep those lands producing as high as possible by dumping chemicals on them. Right. Yeah. I'm sorry. What were you, did you have, no jump in. You can, I would say that there are four, there should be four safety valves and each one has failed us ecologically

53:19and health wise in Iowa. So you've got political or legislative, that one should be keeping us safe. And the whole, um, bear toward immunity thing that is like just pure legislation failure for human health and ecology. Summarize that real quick for somebody who doesn't understand it. Bear first went to Iowa and it didn't work. And then they went to the federal level. Who was bear? It's not, I don't think it's just bear. I think it's the agrochemical industry. Yeah. But bear was the one produce there. So, uh, uh, originally they produced gas for chambers

53:51during world war two. Uh, and now they produce a roundup and they, they bought, they bought Monsanto and they, they produce roundup and, uh, they're out of Germany and they are really pushing toward immunity. Uh, and, and to, to be fair, there is nuance to it, but I think anyone who would say like, yeah, we don't actually know all of the future issues with it. So we're just not going to let them have responsibility. I've said this on our podcast a bunch of times they can make their billion dollars, but they're on the hook for billions of dollars of lawsuits.

54:22If they cause health, you know what I mean? Like in a capitalistic society, shoot your shot, but no, it's worth the risk. And, uh, they want to take away the risk. And, uh, I don't, I don't like that one bit, but, um, the other side of the, and you believe, and I believe because they know that there's harm being caused by their product. Yeah. Yeah. That's public information. They lost, they lost a lawsuit and they had to release all of those public files. I mean, you can read them. I read exactly. It was over 200, a $200 million lawsuit, wasn't it? That yes. And one of the settlement was or something. One of my dear friends, dad's

54:55got to pay out for it. So I know it was real and he followed it all the way. And Zach Lane, who's running for governor came on our podcast, talked about it. So I actually looked into it a little bit and those files are public, so you can look into them. It's a health concern. Um, the second one, uh, from legislation would then be larger businesses, right? So, um, but part of the reason the legislation is failing is because larger agribusinesses are pushing them in a direction. Now I want to be clear, uh, places like farm bureau, they're not advocating for cancer in Iowa. They are incentivized based on what incentivizes them to have more acres on

55:28the land, right? They get paid to insure more acres. So less acres on the land, their crop insurances. Yes. So less acres on, thank you, Kent, less acres on the land means less payment for them. So I understand, you know, to some degree where their incentive is, but also if you just zoom out and you think like, you know, as a decent organization, we should do this thing. Now, the third one is, um, the producers or farmers and the fourth one are the buyers. So, so us people purchasing the actual product and those two, the large two fail because

55:59of, uh, of power and, and, and grabs, uh, for power, the, the smaller two, the farmers and the consumers, they, um, they fail from, I don't have a word for it right now, but it's almost always this. Yeah, I get it, but we just, we gotta be reasonable. You know, we gotta make a living or if you're on the consumer side, well, I know, but I could buy that grass fed beef that I know helps put more pasture on the landscape, but it's $2 more for beef

56:30and, and then I wouldn't be able to have my boat payment. You know what I mean? And so it's just, it's not reasonable. It always comes down to money. Yeah. And, and so all four of those valves have failed. And I would say you're right for the same reason through the same thinking model. And I don't think we can even stay in that model of thinking and get ourselves out of the cancer issue in our agricultural States. And I, I called out a couple of take this down. So you're not staring through your antlers. Sorry. I called out, uh, I'll take mine away. I like them too. I called out a couple of, there's

57:02a bunch of, uh, there are millions and millions of organizations, whether it's individual people or actual organizations that are fighting in the same direction. Right. And, and the same direction is, is money and power. So they're just two examples. They're, they're bigger, broader examples. And, uh, and, and I, they have a piece to play in it, but so do I, when I'm at the grocery store, you know? So I think what I was going to wrap up my thought and then let you go. And I've glad you covered all that. I think our listeners are very smart. I think

57:36most hunters, especially in this space, understand the value of grass and water, clean water. I think we get it. A lot of times I think we preach to the choir and we talk amongst those who understand it. And, you know, a lot of people listening right now are like, yeah, I get it. This is ridiculous. What do we do though, to change what we have right now in the direction we're going? Because we can talk about this all day and people can say, this is not healthy.

58:07This is not right. Or I have cancer because of this or whatever it might be. What do we actually do? How long do we sit around as a society and talk about it without holding somebody accountable, without making a change, without doing something? I have a good, I have a good, uh, maybe metaphor is the right word for this. So yesterday I was, I was telling you earlier that was, I met with a state forester and my dad, uh, he has a farm in Southwest Iowa and we, he's got a timber down there and, and about, uh, 10 years ago or so, a,

58:41a logger approached him and said, Hey, you know, I'd like to, I'd like to log some of your walnut trees and this is how much I'll pay for you. And at the time, you know, we didn't know much about, about what that all entailed and everything. And it wasn't like it was a bad experience or anything, but I had learned more and over the course of those, you know, following years. And I thought, you know what, I should have a state forester out here to come and look at this timber and just assess it for its health. And, and what, what do they think? And, um, what improvements could we,

59:16could we do? And, um, at that time, so this would have been back in 2020, I viewed it mostly as this would be a great place to make better for deer hunting. Right. And, um, I think this goes along the lines too, with those family discussions where, where, uh, people lose their cool and they only see things one way or the other. We should all be evolving as people. We should be, we shouldn't be staying stagnant with the way we think and the way we view things and, or devolving. Yeah, we should, we should, we should be changing when we are presented with new information. And so it was

59:50interesting because in 2020, I had that forester out there to that timber and she made a wonderful plan for us and everything. And, and, uh, uh, she had said, Hey, if somebody ever approaches you about logging this place, just talk to me first, you know, then I can make sure that it's going to go well. The, I mean, they didn't do a bad job, but there's definitely some things I wish would have been done differently here. And your timber would be a little healthier if, well, just a month

1:00:21or two ago, my dad was approached again by, uh, by another logging company. And I'd remembered when she had been there that time, not only had she said that, but she had said, wow, they really got a lot of your walnuts, didn't they? And I thought, man, that that's not good. Those are, those take a long time to grow. They're high value trees and they serve an important role in the ecosystem, but at least they weren't oaks because big bucks like oaks, you know, that's how I was thinking back then. And, and just over the past six years, I've evolved so much as, you know, uh, as a person and how I,

1:00:53how I view our ecosystems and, and, um, you know, if the deer hunting is great, great, but I just want a healthy forest is more of my, my mentality now. And so I, we were approached by the logger again. So I, I called up the forester and I was like, Hey, someone asked to log in, would you mind coming back? And so we did that yesterday. And there were a lot of chores that she had listed for us that we should do to make this timber healthier. And we never got around to them over the last six years. It's far enough away. I mean, there's all the excuses for why

1:01:25we couldn't do it. My dad has retired since then. So he's got more time now. All the, all the, if I told you every excuse for why we haven't gotten going on the plan yet, it would make sense. Yep. Those are good reasons. But the fact is we still haven't gotten going on it. And yesterday my dad and I were standing there and we're like, wow, you know, this is very doable. I know we're both busy, but on this date, we're going to come out here for two days and we're going to do this phase of the project. We're just going to do it. And so that's good, right? That's good that we're making

1:01:58that action, but think of how much further along if over the last six years, if we'd made two days a summer to chip away at this plan, we'd probably be out of the maintenance phase. Now we'd be seeing a lot of the fruits of our labor already paying off on the health of that timber. And the way that ecosystem would respond and, and the change would, would be happening. So the best day to get it going was back in 2020. The second best day is now. Yeah. And so we got to look at all of these

1:02:30changes the same way. And it starts small, right? The first, the first step is to do invasive shrub removal. We have some multiflora rows in there. We need to go in and we need to remove that multiflora rows. And if somebody wants to make a big change in, in how they're behaving as a consumer and not just a consumer in the, what are they buying, but what are they actually putting in their body consumer? That's, that's the term for us in an ecosystem. That's our ecological role as a consumer. They should find something simple that they can start. Maybe it's like what you've done,

1:03:04where you've said, I'm going to have a little, I'm going to have a little, uh, uh, uh, flock of chickens that I'm, my family's going to get our poultry products from. That's a great first step. That's a pretty big first step because that's a, there's a lot of commitment to that, but that's a great, that's a great first step for somebody to do. Growing your own tomatoes. Another great first step, growing some carrots, you know, and then I can't grow carrots very well. I don't know if it's my soil or what, maybe you guys can help me out. They don't, they just don't amount to much. It's

1:03:35all greens on top. Oh, Hey, whoa. Small carrots, still a carrot. I know, but there's, it's one bite. I want six baby carrots. I'm a big, I dude, my wife and I, when we go, when we go to the grocery store, every time we're getting a bag of baby carrots and I just like, baby carrots are just big carrots that are like ground down to look like baby carrots. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. That's what they are. Yeah. It's just like, they're just like whittled down. Yeah. They grow perfectly round like that. Nicholas. No, no, no, no, no. I just, what they're great for is when I'm working from

1:04:07home, I just have them sit on my desk and it's like, look, I'm either munching on that or like recess peanut butter cups. Yeah. But don't they wash them in chlorine? It probably. Yeah. No, I'm serious. Is that real? Yes. Look it up. They do have a little, they do have a little chemically smell. They've got that white stuff on top of it. When you bring them out of that bag. Like, I don't know. Look it up. I could be wrong there, but they wash them in some sort of a wash to clean them. And then it's like, what are we doing here? Why did we have to do that? But point being, we can take these small steps and I've been saying this for a

1:04:38few years now on the podcast, but it's true, you know, and, and, uh, there's, there's different aspects of our life that we can do. And I think, um, you know, a hunting thing is, I think there's a lot, most people are interested in eating what they hunt. Right. But most people don't that hunt, I would say, don't depend on what they hunt. Right. So if, if, uh, you know, I'm, I'm a bow hunter and it is common for a bow hunter to be like, you know,

1:05:10this year, I'm just not going to fill my tag. I just didn't see that buck that I wanted. Wouldn't it be great to live off of what you harvest? Yeah. I mean, for, uh, I turned down a, I could be like, all right, Turkey Tuesday, wild game Wednesday. It's a free for all. You get whatever you want. The percentage of Kent's household's food that they harvest from their yard or from Kent's just sheer, amazing hunting skills. How much money would you say you save doing that? Um, up front, you don't save much, right? Because when you make

1:05:41your, where you're paying for your gear and for, for a pheasant, you're spending a lot of money for a pheasant. But now a lot of, you know, a lot of my deer come off the, I walked to my stand, you know, from my, from my house and all that money he tracks, he knows how much money he saves. And then he spends at the taxidermist big enough bucks for that to be true. But, uh, the, the, the point is like, there's even that would be a good

1:06:11adjustment. Like be content to just, yeah, I'll just take a dough and, and that'll be my family's. What do you got against those? What do you got? Why do you say it? Well, there's no trophy value to it though. I mean, there's no horn, but it's still, it tastes good. Yeah. It's right. And focus on the food, you know, status. Yeah. If I'm going to be out here yesterday. Good. That's great. I know. And I love every second of it. Yeah. And I think if we, if we start celebrating that aspect and not to say that it's not celebrated, there are tons of hunters out there that man, they, that's all the protein

1:06:45wise is what they harvest. And that is just humbling to be around people like that. But it, you know, that's, again, that's another first step that I think even people tuning in now can, can start to focus on is, and I'm not here to say that we could supply all the nation's meat on our, well, we tried doing that. Just to wrap this topic up here. We've talked about this before. We produce two times more food in America than we need, right? We throw away 50% of what we grow. That's, that's a number that's out there. You can look it up, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Somewhere in the pipeline, you know, there's a bunch

1:07:18of different places we throw out food in the pipeline from farm or production to when people eat it and somewhere in there, 50% of the food. 40 years sure is a long time to be in business. And that's exactly how long Waltons has been helping America's butchers, hunters, anglers, and families prepare their meat. That is quite a milestone. And to that, I say, Waltons, congratulations on 40 years in business to your entire family. I sincerely hope that you know how hard they work to provide all of us

1:07:49with the right tools to process and prepare all of our hard earned meat. Walton's motto is everything but the meat for a reason. They have everything we need to process every cut of meat you can think of. And after a long hunting season, I'm hoping you have a freezer full of it. If you're looking to make sausage, jerky, snack sticks, roast, you name it, Waltons can help you with the tools and the knowledge to do it right the first time. Check them out at Waltons.com. And congratulations on 40 years in business. You've earned our trust. If you're looking to sharpen your upland shooting skills, or maybe your kids are starting to get

1:08:22into the sport like mine are, then you need to check out GAME. That's G-A-I-M. Our friends over there are changing the way we approach training. Their cutting edge virtual reality hunting and shooting scenarios immerse you in the field without actually leaving your home. Whether it's game birds or clays, the game system allows you to practice your shotgun mechanics, giving you real-time shot feedback that allows for instant adjustments. And it's been incredibly fun for my kids. It allows them to safely build confidence, which I know translates to success

1:08:56in the field. Virtual training, real results. Click the show description below to learn more or visit their website at game.com to try for yourself. That's G-A-I-M.com. If you're heading out on the next hunt, don't forget the teammate who never complains and never misses, your dog. At Roughland, we built the ultimate travel system for hunting dogs and the people who run with them. It starts with our one-piece kennels, built tough to handle rough roads, cold mornings, and whatever else the season throws at you. From there, customize your system with

1:09:28stackable gear, food and water containers, organization trays, or insulated covers. Everything is lightweight, field-tested, and made right here in the USA. Because let's be real, we don't deserve great dogs. But great dogs, they deserve a Roughland. Visit roughlandkennels.com today and build your version of the ultimate travel system before your next flush. Here's a scouting tip that might just help you find a few more wild birds. First, grab your phone and then open up the OnX Hunt app. In the bottom right corner, click on the 2D button and then select 3D. Then place two fingers on the screen of your phone and slide them up together at the same time.

1:10:02After that, zoom into a property that you've hunted before or one that you've never been to and take a look at the terrain in 3D. I bet you'll see a few nooks and crannies that will hold birds out of the elements. I bet you'll see the land in a dimension that you never thought possible. These are the details that matter when you're putting miles on the truck and on your boots during a hunt. OnX Hunt is the ultimate tool for us bird hunters. It shows our position on planet Earth, land boundaries, land topography, burns, forests that have been logged, weather, and a whole bunch

1:10:33of other features that will make you a better hunter. If you've never tried the OnX Hunt app, then you can download a free seven-day trial to help you understand why hunters like myself simply can't hunt without it. Know where you stand with OnX Hunt. So are we in an age of information right now? Maybe our current, you know, like we're learning that we're learning so much about now we have to go back and fix some of the mistakes that we've been making. So we're in this learning stage where our kids and their kids are going to be

1:11:07continuously trying to, all right, undo what we've done there. Maybe the 95% of wetlands that we lost in our lifetime, we might see it be brought back to like 90 and then maybe 85. And we start realizing that this is part of health for the world that needs to go back. Oh gosh, I hope so. It just takes one person at a time. If you, if you look at just generally what food costs, the big argument is, well, we cannot feed that many people unless we do industrial ag at the scale we're doing it with

1:11:38the chemicals we do it at. Uh, there's no way we could feed the world. One, I, we had a really great podcast with a lady named Molly Pickering from, uh, Illinois. And she said, how do we need to feed the world? Why can't we just feed our region? You know, and, and there's going to be major exports from every region, but why, uh, you know, and, and Illinois, they talk about feeding the world. They import 95% of their food. So we're, it's, it's not a good argument, but let's say that it was a good argument. Well, if food costs more, if there was less of it and we threw less

1:12:10of it away and it still costs a little bit more, what does that mean? That means less luxury for most of us. And, and, and I, I know this is, it's just not sexy to say, but like, what if you didn't have any TVs, any streaming services, you drove places a lot less because you were more content to be at home with, with your stead, you bought a much smaller house. What if your house was 650 square feet? You know, but what, what, what, what if that was the case? We got four kids. Okay. Can I make a point on the not driving anywhere though? Sure. I feel like that touches a topic of

1:12:44when we make cities or plan cities, things aren't very walkable in a lot of places, you know, whereas in Europe or big cities. So maybe you have to go to less places is the point, you know, cause we go somewhere every single day. People, we interviewed a episode just dropped today, uh, Friday, the 16th, seven, 18th, something like that. Uh, Valerie even coat. And she's read tons of pioneer journals and she's like, the women didn't really leave the house. And it wasn't, it wasn't like, Oh, they did all the work here. It was just the, a lot of the humans, including the

1:13:20kids and the women. And often the husbands were working from home. They'd stay home all week and then leave Sunday and go to church. And then they come back. And, um, I, we don't understand how much we consume all around us. Think of how many single use plastics we use all the time. And I'm not a big, like ban all the plastics, you know, we need to take this choice away. I'm just, we need to think about like the sheer amount of everything is wrapped in it though. Everything you buy is wrapped in it. Even the stuff that's recyclable is wrapped in the plastic. I just was talking to my

1:13:50wife about this. I'm like, gosh, I let's just, what, I don't care what it is. Just put it in the Tupperware. I'm so tired of seeing plastic bags. I don't want to buy another Ziploc carton. I just don't just put it in Tupperware. I'll wash it. I don't care. I don't need to see anything go in a plastic bag ever again. Cause I'm so sick of all of these cans being filled up every single week. Plastics. Yeah. The amount of garbage at you look down every street, it's, it's unbelievable. If everybody just, if it's one bag a week or sorry, I say bag. I know that's a Minnesota.

1:14:23I say bag too. I got made fun of. So, um, if, if everyone just throws one less away a week, we're talking millions. Oh yeah. Or my wife and I are, we are racked our brains since we opened our coffee shop. We have racked our brains. How can we get rid of single use cups? And, and it boils down to people don't have the value. Like if, even if we said, Hey, we'll give you the Mason jar. You, you don't have to pay for it. Bring it back. And as long as you bring it back, we'll give you another one for free. Right. And you just keep exchanging it. I drive to Iowa just

1:14:53to fill that. Or like a discount. If you bring your own cup, if you bring your own mug rather than, and, and, and the truth. Well, so here's the problem. Yeah. You hit them with the double their price. If they need to buy a cup, maybe not double. No, yeah, no, seriously. Double the price. Everything is money driven. We already have confirmed that the human nature is to be more and more and more. And it's driven by money. So if you're going to double the price, then. Or convenience. I mean, think of how huge of a hassle it is to have to bring

1:15:26a cup when you go to the coffee shop. If you think about it from like a grand scheme of things, it's a nothing. But if you think, well, every morning I got to remember to bring my Mason jar and then I got to bring it into Spire. I just, you know, and, and, and even I would think like, I ain't doing that every single day. You know what I mean? We've just gotten to a level where we can, we are privileged enough to be able to think about that. So never had it so easy guys. Uh, I want to transition to what you guys are working on at the, at the Hoxie right now at the Prairie Farm. Um, I had written this down. I don't

1:15:58really ever have notes, but I wrote a couple of thoughts down here to make sure we, we hit a couple of topics. But one thing I was wondering, would you guys qualify for a CRP? Because CRP enrollment is currently open in America. Could you enroll your, your smile? You'd be double dipping. You'd get paid to have grass on the landscape and then you harvest it and sell it. You can't, you cannot harvest off of CRP acres. So you can't, you can't, um, you guys passed the test. So what are you guys doing on? We do. I did, I did plant some CRP on our

1:16:32farm though this winter. Um, there's a, a particular spot that had been in Indian grass for decades. Was that that terrace on the South side? Yeah, we did walk by it. Yeah. Remember where that, so remember where like 50 birds were down there by that burn pile and all that. And then we walked further West. Oh, it went up the hill. Yeah. It was down that steep hill that the hill's too steep to do anything, but, but grass on. And the problem is where the old lake was or the old

1:17:03pond. Um, so remember we call it the dry pond and there was all that, uh, horse tail or you guys might notice snake grass. I think we busted one hen out of there, um, in that area there. And so the, the problem for us is it's fine when it's an Indian grass production field, but the problem is we have to cycle our fields cause they start to, you know, become depleted of the same nutrients after decades of growing there and being harvested from. It's talking at Hoxie. Right. And so it's,

1:17:37it's just highly erodible ground. It worked fine. Like I said, when we had it in grass production, but when we cycle a field, we have to do a couple of years of soybeans. There's just a lot of erosion there. And so instead of continuing to crop it, we just decided, let's just make it a diverse prairie there. And, um, Carol actually helped us with that decision. He wanted, he wanted some CRP on his ground. And, and so I planted it right around, I think it was 11 acres or something like that of CRP. So I'm actually very excited to have you back after that's, that's grown up a

1:18:07little bit and we can hunt that in the future and it'll be incredible there. You know, it's just a wonderful little habitat area, but, but, um, yeah, we, we cannot harvest seed out of, out of CRP because the taxpayer has technically paid for that seed to be there. We've actually been, um, we're working on this program. So people call us pretty often, Hey, I've got this old CRP field. It's all big balloon. And I just see, hate to see it ripped up or whatever. Could I just harvest this? And the problem with that, there's a few different problems, but the main thing is you get a bunch of different species in there and that's hard to

1:18:40put in for your paperwork for the government. So I'm really working on a program where we can take some of those. I mean, we wouldn't be able to take thousands and thousands of acres, people doing that, but especially in our area where people are, um, are you saying expiring contracts? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Never on an actual contract, but let's say, let's say it got taken over by big blue stem and Indian grass. Um, then the, uh, NRCS is going to be like, well, you either have to spray it out or maybe the rental rates go way down for CRP. And so it makes more sense. They're either going to put it in a corn and beans or they kind of have a long shot where they,

1:19:15Hey, I'd love to keep hunting this. Is there any chance you guys could take the seed? And we're trying to figure out a way where we can actually do that and, and help, help keep it on the landscape in that way and make it beneficial for the farmer. But it's a tough, it, there's a lot of logistic issues, but we're trying. Yeah. You've got a lot going on there. I know that, um, right now we're looking at planting season, right? Uh, a couple of things. Let's talk about planting, doing it right, getting the right seeds for your region. Um, but first you guys are launching a forum,

1:19:47Prairie management forum. Yeah. Can you tell me what is the forum? How does it work? Who's going to use it? Yeah. Just give me, give us, just lay it on me. Well, I, I remember being really curious one day and I, I, um, you, you Google stuff about Prairie and usually you're kind of hit or miss because a lot of times you get these blogs or these articles and some of them are really good, or maybe they were written 25 years ago. So they were good for the time, but it's kind of outdated and we need better information. But since they've been around so long, Google ranks it really highly. So the information isn't very good. The good information on the

1:20:19internet for Prairie is tucked in a Facebook pages and Reddit pages, but those, how do you know what's what, how do you find it? Exactly. So one finding it's tough to the only way I can sort on that on things that I don't know anything about Prairie and this part. So I'll, I'll ask on here is you look at just kind of the majority of the comments. You can kind of see where the industry is going and that's typically a good bet, but you don't really know. And, and Reddit was the same way, but also Google hates Reddit and Facebook because they're direct competitors.

1:20:51So they're not going to rank those. If you ask a Prairie question, that question might exactly be answered on a forum on Facebook and it's not going to rank it because Facebook is Google's competitor. And, uh, and then I found that out years ago. And then a couple of years ago I was asking, I was like, Oh, I wonder what it knows about Prairie man. It gives some terrible, terrible Prairie advice. You Google does or all the, all of them. I checked like six different LLMs. So that's a problem when you're searching for information online because you don't know who to

1:21:25trust. Right. So I think most people that have been listening to you guys on your show, trust you. You've got a lot of experience to back it up, right? You got real life experience to back it up. We talked about it here. You know, I, if I'm, if I have a Prairie question, if all my buddies have Prairie questions, who are they calling? Yeah. Hey, you got Kent's number.

1:21:46They're not going to Facebook because they want to go to write to a source of somebody that they know they can trust. Yeah. Which I see value. If you guys take ownership of something like that, because if I see it on your site, then I would trust it. Yeah. Right. That, and you know, I know you've got a lot of responsibility, sir. I really, I debated on it because if, if we're going to do it, it could look like just a big sales thing for us. And so actually in the guidelines, if you go on there on the guidelines, it says that, um, please feel free to

1:22:22recommend any, uh, any native seed company you think does a good job or any rest Prairie restoration company. We, we sell seed, we grow seed, we sell seed and we do Prairie restoration, but I want to make sure that this forum's not biased in that way. And so I actually pinged owners of, uh, competitor companies. It was like, would you please like answer? I mean, recommend your own company. I don't care, but I want the information on here to be really high quality. I want it to be cutting edge. So of course we pinged people like a Tallgrass Prairie center. Um, uh, the person who's working on it with us is Tabitha Panis. She used to be the

1:22:56president of the Iowa Prairie network. Actually one of our first podcasts ever. She's incredible. Uh, and, um, so she's jumping on it with us and making a lot of the first content and moderating it, making sure like it doesn't get too political right away, you know, and that, cause I, you know, the first parts of the forum get, you know, hard. Right. So I remember back long time ago, when forums first began, there were some heated conversations in the fishing forums. Oh, up here in Minnesota, there were several fishing forums and let's just say everybody

1:23:26has an opinion. I don't know if you were aware of this and they all want to tell you all about it. Yeah, exactly. So my, if I had to guess, I think the biggest arguments will come from glyphosate, from chemicals. Well, who's willing to use glyphosate? Who's willing? That's just my hypothesis. But in, in the middle of all this, of people getting good information on a forum, the idea is also Google will read it and be like, and, and they rank forums really highly on AI, uh, if they can get access to it, Reddit doesn't let. How does it fact check it? Does it exactly?

1:23:59It does not. So it would literally read all of the forum and it would go, the majority of the people say this. And it would, it will give that answer. As Kent says, AI gives a wrong answer with authority. Um, and so, but it will go in how, what's, what's, uh, recommended most often. And so the goal is to get people that have intelligent answers and actually have some research backed information or actual field back information and say, this is what you need to do. This is what works in my experience. And

1:24:31we'll just, I, my attempt is to overwhelm the AI with good information and then all the bad information we can combat in the forum. So it's on my to-do list every day for a year to check the forum and answer questions. Kent, bring this back up in a second. AI, I want to talk about AI in land. Okay. Yeah. Uh, to the forum on this, is it open right now? Are people able to go and do some searches on there? The prairie farm.com. Okay. The prairie farm.com. Yep. Okay. They can go. I think, I think anybody can view it. If I remember, I actually didn't develop it. I had

1:25:05a web developer make it. Um, but it was the prairie farm.com. The prairie farm.com. So anybody can view it, but then to like post one of these screens up here. Can we see it? Um, you might have to have an account, but yeah, I have to create an account. If, if you have an account, then you can comment on it. Wow. I have a low price of $500 a month. A one time payment each month of $375. Yeah, man. And before we even advertised it, some guy who's kind of known in the prairie industry in Iowa found it and like made a post. And so when people are listening to

1:25:41this, we didn't even really tell the world about it till a week and a half before this. And he had found it and made a post. So we've got a list of, well, you just launched this within, just launched this within two weeks of when this podcast is airing. Yeah. So it is a baby, but what we want is we want real questions. We want people who are really curious about what's going to show up. And then he's actually working over there now. While you're doing something over there, can you put the AC on? It's getting a little bit warmer because then everybody's going to hear it on the

1:26:12podcast. That's okay. Oh man. So is this okay. So the second one is Larry Weber, that guy, you need to have that guy in the podcast. Dr. Larry Weber from University of Iowa. He is the water quality expert now. Really? I cannot believe. I'll write that down. Larry Weber, Dr. Larry Weber. Man, that's awesome that he would be the guy there. Well, even this is nice and clean. Good work. If you listen to this, Larry, we'll even road trip with you up here, buddy. Yeah. I have a little extra trip, but yeah. So you've got all these different topics from grazing to woodland to wetland. And normally

1:26:46on forum guidelines, you go no politics, right? Fish.net. They have like, Hey, absolutely no politics on here. Um, we're going to allow no politics except in the politic section because a lot of conservation happens. You're going to have a hard time separating all these things. I think we're literally going to have to delete them. Yeah. Well, yeah, but you got grass to grow. I don't see a politics question now. No, no, I haven't. But I just think, I think you're going to find politics within most of these categories. I think Travis should create our first political post. You know what? You can. What does Nick Lirio think

1:27:19about? I can write a post though. I can, I can. Oh, and you don't have an account? Oh, good. Well, I have a shop account that you could sign in with a shop account. Oh, okay. Okay. I see. Interesting. And then like you can message people. So we are in the information stage. Last week we talked about Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever launching Habitat University, which was actual courses that you can go through with experts that put these courses together. You can read it. You can watch it. You can listen to it, which I think it's, it's great

1:27:51information. People are interested in it. In the first month they had 400 people sign up to take the course and they're just, just getting it rolling. This is great too. I mean, this is different because this is another way for people to get the right information. I think most people that have the ability to do work on the land and they're choosing to do it, they don't want to mess it up. They want to do it right. You know, and any kind of prairie installation, you know, prairie management is turning a battleship. It's a, it's a multiple

1:28:22year process every time you do something. So if you don't get it right, you're five years in before you have to redo it. That's the thing. That's a scary thing. It's like dog training. Right. You are doing something today that is not going to really show itself for potentially two years to know if you did it right. It's like raising a kid. And then if you did it wrong, yeah, exactly. My brother and I were just texting about this and I'm like, gosh, some days I just, I just really feel like, boy, did I mess up? He's like, well, just knowing

1:28:54that you're thinking about that shows that you are probably. With your kid or your dog? My kids. Oh, okay. I've got four kids. He has three kids. You know, I just blame my son for leaving the garage door open. Sorry. I said two kids. I used to leave the lights on all the time, so I don't blame your son. Well, we had a family meeting about it. It turns out I left the door open. Did you publicly apologize? Oh, yeah. I apologize. You had to go lit them up.

1:29:26Those beautiful, wonderful children of yours. I would definitely never accuse them. I was already mad because he had left my beautiful Milwaukee portable air compressor sitting outside in about a two inch monsoon with the battery in it. We could talk for hours about this because I'm finding my tools laying in the woods behind our house. They're building stuff with them. And I swear there's somebody paying them millions of dollars to not put back anything of mine that they've taken. And I get so mad. But at the same time, I'm like, well, I do want them to do this stuff.

1:30:01I do want them to go out and have a kitchen and build stuff and get their hands dirty. You know, my dad used to blame me for him losing his tools all the time. And my mom told me that my grandfather, my mom and uncles hadn't lived with their parents for, for 30 years. And my grandpa would still message them and be like, have you seen my, my, my set of Allens over here laying around? And they're like, dad, we haven't lived here in years. Like, so that's never going to happen. Oh, I got blamed for everything that my dad lost. My dad still does that to me. And I'm like, dad, I don't live with you. And now he comes fishing with me. And I'm like,

1:30:31no, you can't use that stuff. You can't take care of it. You've proven that you can't take care of it. Yeah. All those years you were blaming me. He's like, no, you were breaking and losing stuff. I go, I really don't know. Look who's rod is broken right now. Who broke it?