Firearm Safety Training

0:00This episode of The Flush Podcast is brought to you by Onyx Hunt, Waltons, Hoxie Native Seeds, the Minnesota Horse and Hunt Club, HuntFishSD.com, Rufflin Kennels, Black Gold Dog Food, and by Game Virtual Shooting Simulators. Today, we're taking hunter safety training. Think you can pass the test? Are you breaking any laws without even knowing it? Doug Ernst has taught hunter safety training classes for the past 53 years, and he brought the test with him today. Okay, Hannah the hunter and Big Al will find out if they can pass.

0:31A lot of pressure. You guys hope, hopefully, a little bit. And I'm certain we'll all learn a few things from this conversation that will make us more equipped in the field. It's our duty as hunters to be responsible and safe, and it's our duty to make sure others in the field are also safe, which is why I think this show is definitely worth your time.

0:57Welcome to another episode of the Flush Podcast. I'm your host, Travis Frank. Big Al is our producer. He's hiding behind the camera. In front of the camera today, we have Hannah the hunter. Welcome to the show. Boop, boop. And we have Doug Ernst. Doug and I have known each other for many, many years. I was the best man in his son's wedding. We have hunted and fished together for quite a while, and Doug has taught hunter safety training for how many years, Doug?

1:2953. 53 years. How did you get roped into it, and why are you still doing it? Actually, I worked in a cabinet shop 53 years ago, and my boss taught firearm safety training. He actually taught me, and said, Doug, I need to have some helpers, and I said, yeah, why not? Were you single at the time? Yep, I was single. So this is before you were even married.

2:00Just a crazy young kid, yep. Yeah. And I helped out, and finally just took over. The next year came, and he said, can you come back again? Next year, the next year, the next year, and then I tried to get out of it, and he wouldn't let me. He said, no, you're not quitting. You're going to keep going, and we taught together until Dan passed away two years ago. Yeah. We told the story, actually, on Minnesota Bound the year before he passed, which was heartbreaking to find out that he had passed, because he and his wife taught, the three of you, together

2:34for 50 years, and he was up to more than that. He was in his 60s. 60 years of teaching hunting. Of teaching, yep. That's impressive. And I told you back then, I said, you don't realize it, but you have probably saved lives. You have made a difference in a lot of people's lives. Hundreds, thousands. I mean, how many kids do you think, and not necessarily just kids, I mean, adults take hunter safety training, too, but 53 years for yourself, Doug?

3:05You asked me that earlier, and I was thinking about it as we were sitting here, that the

3:11let's just go 50, that's easier.

3:16I mean, some years we had as little as seven or eight kids. Some years we had 48, 50 kids. So let's just say 30. Yeah. 30 times 50, what's that? 1,500? 1,500, you know, so somewhere's around 1,500 kids. I'm guessing more years it was on the higher side. In the Carver County area alone. This is central Minnesota that you've been teaching it. And hunter safety is one of those things where the classes fill up really fast. I know a sporting goods shop near us that there's a line out the door, and if you're not in line,

3:51when they open registration for hunter safety, you're not going to get in. And there's just not enough teachers out there teaching it. That's the truth. Yeah. And the other truth is that we need kids and people, adults, that are going to use these firearms that you see right over here. We're going to talk about these guns in a second to know what to do. It's one of those things where I almost feel like, you know, we go through, and we were talking before we turned the mic on, we go through this pretty extensive test to make

4:22sure that you're okay to drive legally in this country, right? You have to do a year of training. You have to drive with a driver. What do you call those? Instructor. Driver and instructor. You just probably did this, Alex. I did. I did. Pretty recently. The most recent out of everybody here. What was the driving test like? Well, I did it in a manual, first of all. So my experience is a little bit different than everybody else's. Which, by the way, I'm actually kind of proud of you. You're one of the few Americans who can still drive a manual vehicle. I know. I know. So I had to do a few extra things and get going on a hill and stuff.

4:55So that was the only stressful part. And my foot, people can't see me, but my foot was shaking on the clutch. You could hear my foot shaking on the clutch pedal because I was so nervous. Oh my gosh. But they go in depth. Like some professor or some instructors like really go in depth. Like even the slightest thing wrong, they'll mark you, dock you a point for it. That's this guy right here. Yeah. Yeah. But that's a good thing. That's a good thing. You're driving on a road with a big machine. Absolutely. Just like if you go through firearm safety, you're carrying a firearm that could take somebody's life in any second, just like a vehicle could.

5:27Yeah. Hannah, you recently took firearm safety training online. Fully online. That's kind of wild to me that you didn't have to take a field day. Yeah. It was all virtual. Are you sure you're legal to hunt? Yes. They gave you, did you get an actual thing in the mail that said that you're qualified? Yes. We're going to have to talk to us about this. That just blows my mind, Doug. It has to blow yours. You've been doing this for 50 years and now kids can just go online all willy-nilly and now you're supposedly a good hunter. Yeah. I didn't know that. And I can just say, I guess I don't agree with that.

5:59I think the hands-on thing is way better than learning it on paper. We have the opportunity or I guess the privilege where we teach, we can bring firearms into class. Some places, the building that they're in, they don't allow it, but ours still does. And that's their first assignment. When we have registration night, we tell them, you know, make sure your gun is unloaded, have

6:30in a case, case has to be tied and everything. And then we have an area where they can put their gun on a table and bring it in and they leave it there. And how to bring it in, we, you know, gun pointed up in the air, don't carry it by the handle like a suitcase or whatever, and put it down and then we'll go through it once you're here and we get all settled in and stuff. And it's amazing the first time they come in and set it down and they got their book in

7:02their hand and they're all fumbled fingers everywhere till by the third night, how much more confident they are. You know, they set it down and we bring them back and they take it out and show us it's unloaded and put it on top of the case. And that first night they can't get the zipper open there. You know, they're just nervous and it makes a big difference. You know, and they do that every night, right up until the test. So you, you ask them to bring in a gun. They bring a gun in every night.

7:32Yep. Yep. And he's not judging you, Hannah, by saying that you didn't do a good job. I'm sure you did a great job and you passed. And I practice otherwise at Horse and Hunt Club too. It's not like I just went on a hunt the very first time. Yeah, your dad was a part of it. Yes. So there are some people who have parents who don't know how to handle a gun safely because they never took the classes, but yet they maybe have guns in their home, which is also kind of crazy. Really think about you can go buy a gun and you don't have to have any training at all

8:03to own that gun, to purchase that gun. Right. Right. Yeah. You don't, um, the background check for pistols. That's about it. You know, otherwise you can just get it. And, you know, we get a lot of parents that come with their kids and take the course just because there's guns in the house and they don't know anything about it. Which is great. Yeah. That's absolutely great. So what does a class look like for you? How, how many classes are there? How long are they? And can you kind of explain what that looks like? And then Hannah, I want to know what it was like for you.

8:34I took my training 31 years ago. Jeez. Wow. Yeah. I know. I know. I think. Yep. I'm getting up there. I'm getting up there. Yep. I'm getting wiser. Can't say he's turning gray because he doesn't have any hair. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. I'm getting wiser by the day, you guys. Me too. Al, you've never taken it. Nope. So we have a very wide spectrum here, but the reason I wanted to have Doug in today is because this is all really good information. There are some rules and laws that we're likely, people are likely breaking without even realizing

9:08it. And so we're going to go through it. I have a test right here. I have the actual test that Doug brought in. He's got one too. Alex, you don't get to see it. Yeah, I got it on my computer. You don't get to see it, but you just recently took it. Yes. So. Hey, I did one chapter of it. You did a chapter? I did a chapter. Hannah and I started at the same time. He got bored. I wouldn't say I got bored. I just, I have a lot. I would say looking, reviewing this, it's not hard enough. That's my personal opinion. I heard you guys talking about that. Okay, Doug, what does the class look like for you when you start the class up?

9:39Obviously, I said before, the first night is registration. First classroom night is guns and ammunition. We learn the parts of the gun. We learn how a bullet fires, how a shell goes off, parts of a shell. So, um, then we go into the carrying positions, the shooting positions, all the gun handling, and then we'll have a field night or not a field night, but a classroom night.

10:11We, we, um, we have a gym that we can use and we divide everything up into like. Scenarios. Is that a good way to describe it? You go through different hunting scenarios? Yeah. Well, not scenarios, but we'll, we'll set up a make believe fence and we'll have the kids cross the fence as a couple or as a group and as alone. We have a laser gun that when you pull the trigger, shoots a beam of light and they'll get to hold that and shoot at a target on the wall.

10:44And then that's where we figure out the dominant eye thing, you know, and then show them how to hold the gun and how to aim it with, um, you know, the front sight, rear sight thing. Yep. And then we'll have the, uh, uh, carries like five carries. We'll teach them and they practice those out on the floor. And the zones of fire and then the four shooting positions, the rowan standing, kneeling, sitting. Do you guys talk game laws? We, the conservation officer comes in and on one night and talks about our on game laws.

11:21Okay. Um, the three shell thing for waterfall and transporting, all that stuff. Limits, seasons, all that. You go through all of it. Blaze orange thing. Yep. Which that's, that's something that I think we should just address right away. I was talking with Arlen last week on the show after we got done recording. I mentioned that you were going to come in this week, Doug, and we're going to talk gun safety because he also has taught gun safety for many, many years.

11:53And I asked Arlen, I go, what is the most common mistake that we are making? And he said, most people aren't wearing enough orange. He said, there's really in the state of Minnesota, there's really only a couple of weeks of the season when you don't have to have a minimum of 50% of your body covered above the waist in orange. Because there's a firearm deer season, there's a muzzleloader season open for big game or any other season that would qualify for that.

12:31And when people go out pheasant hunting in Minnesota with an orange hat, that's not enough by the letter of the law. During the deer season. During the deer season. Yeah. And the orange on our vests, a lot of times are not enough either, depending on your hunting vest. You were talking about this earlier, Doug, where you talked with a DNR officer out in the field and he said, and I don't want to misquote you here, but he basically said, if you're wearing that, you need more to go out in the field.

13:04I can't let you go out in the field without that. Yeah. The vest that I had purchased just had the pocket flaps were orange. And the shoulder patch and the game bag, the rest was all brown. So if you don't have an orange jacket on under it, I was illegal that day.

13:24Hannah, did you know this based on your training, online training? I did know we had to wear orange, but not over 50%. I did not know that. But I always wear a lot of orange. Yeah, I do too. And there are some states in America where you do not have to wear any orange at all. And when we go film, I ask the people if they would wear an orange hat at a minimum, please. Because when we are filming television shows, there are a lot of people watching from different states and their laws say you need to wear orange.

14:02Even though in Montana, you do not have to wear orange, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't. Because safety is always the number one priority, right? And I always wear some kind of orange. If not, the most common email that I receive in the inbox after the TV show airs is that Hunter was not wearing orange. And I usually, I talk to everybody beforehand and I ask them to please do that. Some people are not comfortable with it and I don't know why, but that's just their own personal take on it.

14:33Mine is, I'm going to wear an orange hat, minimum. I almost always have more than that, though. I wear orange hoodies or orange on the vest. In Minnesota, it is law. It is not necessarily the case everywhere. But in this state, it is. And most importantly, safety. If I don't get a bird because he saw me coming, that's fine. You know, like it's okay with me. The most important thing is just safety out there in the field. And so that's really the crux of today's conversation, guys.

15:05Are you ready to get into some of this here? Let's go. All right. In your case, you can do the blaze pink. Blaze pink, I could. That's legal now. Well, that's what I'll be wearing. What's that? That's what I'll be wearing. I'll be wearing blaze pink. Okay. First question on the test. There are 50 questions here. This is the test that you're going to be giving to the next generation of hunters, Doug. In Minnesota, at what age can you hunt without an adult? Alex and Hannah, is it 11, 12, 13, or 14?

15:39Yeah.

15:43Just a blank stare on Hannah right now. She's on the big screen. I'll put her on. I got to see the thinking face. I know. There's a thinking face. I can't see me, though. Oh. I'm saying 12.

15:56Alex is going to go 12. At what age can you hunt without an adult? Actually, can I change my answer? 14. Hannah says 14. No, I lied. It's 12. No, we'll go with 12. The key word in this question is without an adult. And the answer there is 14. Dang, I had it right the first time. You know what's funny? I was going to change my answer to 14, but then Hannah changed hers to 12. So I was like, you know what? She's taking the test. Maybe it is 12. I don't know. Yeah. Now, this is also really interesting to me.

16:31So I have been hunting with my kids, Doug. As you know, you are about to maybe pass, maybe not. One of my children. Try and un-teach them of all your bad habits. So my oldest is finally old enough to take hunter safety training. And he has been hunting with me for six years. That's the crazy part about this whole system. Yeah. I have thoughts about that, too. I know you. What are they? Well, I did the same thing. I took my son, Michael, hunting as soon as he could walk, practically, or fishing and stuff.

17:05And I don't think I let him carry a gun, though. I don't know for sure. He'll probably, if he watches this, he'll say, yeah, you did.

17:18But it's up to the parent to guide them until they take the training. And you can't take the training in Minnesota until you're 11. 11. And you don't get your permit until you're 12. Yep. So if you start taking your son or daughter out at 9 or whatever, you know, you see pictures in outdoor news all the time with, you know, 9 and 10-year-old kids behind a buck. Yeah. That they shot. So in Minnesota now, when you and I first started hunting, Doug, we could not hunt deer

17:50until we were 12. Right. And then we could hunt with an adult at the age of 12 within basically arm's reach. Yep. That's kind of what the rule was. And then at 14, you were able to go on your own. But now you can start hunting deer at 10. And there is, in this state, no legal age limit to when you can start hunting small game. Small game applies to turkey, ducks, geese, pheasants, grouse, squirrels, rabbits.

18:20It's all small game. So all, and I've called the DNR, I've called multiple times to make sure, can I take my son goose hunting? Can I take him dove hunting? Can I take him turkey hunting? You know, all that. Yes. And the licenses are very inexpensive because it's encouraged to get your kids out there. Obviously, I'm right here. I'm within arm's reach. But legally to hunt without an adult, they need to be 14 years old. There you go. You guys are all for one. No. I'm panicking. I would like to clarify, I've never taken the test.

18:53Just saying. Just whatever you got to tell yourself. Yeah, come on. Now, this was a setup, Hannah. This was a setup to make fun of us. No, honestly, that was the first question, but that might be the most difficult question out of all 50, which I think is a tough one, which I think is kind of almost looking through this, like it's if you think about it, most of these are just common sense. Let's go to the next one. How can you reduce your chances of having a firearm accident or incident?

19:24A, obey the rules of firearm safety when hunting alone, B, obey the rules of firearm safety when hunting with dogs, C, obey the rules of firearm safety when hunting with others, or D, obey the rules of firearm safety at all times when handling a firearm? At all times. Hannah's got a thinking face on. L. A D. At all times. At all times. Right. That is, that's literally question number two. Yeah. That's so common sense. As you were reading that, I was like, wouldn't it apply to all of these?

19:56I was like, is there multiple answers to this? Yeah. All of them are multiple choice, right? I would say that's just- There's always the best answer. Yeah. Yeah. A best. Okay. Third one. Why should you never shoot at rocks or water?

20:13I'm not going to tell you why. I'm not going to give you these multiple choices. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, I mean- Because the rocks could come back at you. I was going to say that or ricochet. Yeah. Yep. Hannah's got it. Rocks or water are not a safe backstop. They may cause the bullet to ricochet. Shooting toward rocks or water will stop a bullet. No. Shooting at rocks or water will alert the game animal of the hunter's presence. Oh, come on. I'm literally reading them off here. There is no reason to avoid shooting toward rocks or water.

20:43D. No. It was A. Rocks or water are not a safe backstop. They may cause the bullet to ricochet. Okay.

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23:38Two-night, three-day packages, September through March, are available. Book your next hunt today. Visit HuntOakTree.com. That's HuntOakTree.com. Now we go into the fourth one. Which carry gives a hunter the best control of their firearm? A shoulder carry, and they have a picture of a break-action gun over the shoulder. That's A. A trail carry, which is one hand holding the gun with it pointed forward. A cradle carry, which is having it across your arm.

24:08Or a two-hand carry with the gun pointed up. Two-hand carry. Yes. Doug, correct? Yep, that's right. That's correct. But I would also say a shoulder carry with a gun that's cracked open. I was going to say, I've seen pictures of you and people in the show. I carry it like that a lot. The gun cannot be fired. It's over my shoulder. And that, to me, is a very safe way to carry your gun. It's almost like if you have an automatic, semi-auto, and you have the action open with the shell sticking out.

24:42You know, that's one way to tell everybody in your group that the gun can't fire right now. Yeah, it's obviously unusable at that point. Even if there's two shells in the chamber, they're not going to go off. The question, though, is which carry gives a hunter the best control of their firearm? Yep. And the two-handed carry is always the answer. Now, here's one question that I have for you. I have heard trainers and seen them teach people to walk with the two-hand carry, but the gun pointed down as they're walking.

25:15Is that encouraged by the state?

25:19First I've heard, my first thought right away when you said that would be like, not a good idea. If you stumble, the muzzle's going to go right into the mud or dirt, and then you've got that issue. Or if you accidentally misfire and there's a dog in front of you. Yeah, or somebody's feet. We actually teach the opposite, up or out, depending on who's next to you or whatever. All right, next question. When should a firearm be loaded?

25:50A, when you're ready to hunt. B, when you're cleaning it. C, when it is in your car or truck. Or D, when you are carrying it.

26:01Hannah. When you're ready to hunt. L? Well, when you say when you're carrying it. Yeah, it depends. Like when you're carrying it in the field or when you're just carrying it. This is just what it says. I'm reading the exact questions. I'll just say when you're ready to hunt, because the carrying could be very broad. I mean, you could just be carrying it to the truck, you know? Douglas. Ready to hunt. Ready to hunt. Yes. That is a kind of misleading question. Yeah. When you carry it. They get that D. They have that other trick you. What percent do the kids need to get to pass this?

26:32Is it 80%? It says right here. 13 wrong. Fail. Out of how many? 50. Out of 50. Yeah. How many kids have failed this test? We get a couple every year. And most of the time, it's, what would be the word? Failure to draw in what they're reading. We'll read them to test. Reading answers just like you're doing us, they'll get one or two wrong. So it's, I don't know what that's called, but it's, you know, the reading ability.

27:04Their comprehension. Comprehension, yeah, is not letting them soak it up. You know, they know it all, but they just don't know how to put it. So then what do you do? Do you allow them to work through that? Okay. Take them aside and read it to them. If my math is correct, I think they need 75% to pass. What's that? If my math is correct, they need 75%. There's 50 questions. And if you can get 13 wrongs. Yeah, so 75%. You can get 12 wrongs. 12 is 76. Yeah, it says it right here. There you go. Go on. So far, yeah, we've done that.

27:36You're the borderline. I know. We're going to give you a permit. Almost every year. Hey, Hannah's there with me. Like, no, I've only gotten one wrong. Well, I didn't answer the second one. You answered first. Okay, Doug, you've been doing this for quite a while, right? You just said almost every year you have somebody that doesn't pass this test. Have you ever had to fail any kids from getting their permit? Or adults? To my knowledge, no adults.

28:02I know of two out of the 53 years. Can you say what they did? Yeah, the first one is easy. Um, it came down to the field trip where we were at, and, uh, the child or the kid didn't have a gun, so he used my gun. I let him use my gun for the field trip. And, uh, a .22 semi-automatic. And, uh, about two-thirds of the trip through, he came up to me, and he pointed the muzzle

28:38of the gun right at my face. No. And he said, Mr. Ernst, I'm so sorry I got mud in the barrel of your gun. And, you know, and I just looked at him, I can't remember his name anymore, but I just said, that's, that's okay, but what are you doing right now? And he just looked at me in a blank stare like, I'm just showing you that I got your gun dirty, and I'm so sorry. I said, no, what are you doing right now?

29:11And he never did catch it. I said, you're pointing your gun right at my face. What if the gun goes off? What's going to happen to me? I'm going to be dead. Oh. And he just, I said, you're done. You know, that's it. So. Maybe just a little, yeah. Oh my gosh. And, uh, and the other one was a, um, how do you say it? Autism, mentally challenged, whatever. Um, not, not mentally challenged, but, um, and that was a, uh,

29:43it was a tough situation. It was a person where I knew everybody in the family and stuff, but all the, um, other instructors helped me out. You know, they came up to me and said, Doug, this kid's not ready yet. You know, we got, he's got to have a couple more years before he can do this, you know? And I said, all right. You know, I went along with him. So I had to make the tough phone call, but. Yeah. Um, I didn't, I didn't. What was that like for the family? Was that a hard one?

30:13No, they accepted it. Okay. Um, and it was, um, a situation where I didn't think an accident was going to happen. Cause I knew he was going to have parents with him and stuff, but I didn't want that on me knowing them so well, you know, I mean, I knew him very well, you know, so, uh, he ended up getting a certificate. So I'm happy to hear that in Minnesota.

30:46They've recently, I would say maybe not recently, eight, 10 years ago passed a law because in the past, let's say you're had a disability that prevented you from being able to take this and pass this test on your own. But yet, if you were able to go hunt with a mentor or an adult safely, you could get an apprentice license for two years. But then after two years, you can't buy a license anymore. The system doesn't let you buy the apprentice license cause you've only do it twice.

31:17Well, then you legally, you can't legally hunt without the license if you don't have firearm safety. So there was a law passed through the legislature that allowed people with a disability that prevents them from being able to pass this test to continue to hunt with an adult at their side at all times. That's basically how it works. You know, that first question that you failed Al, 14, um, that does not apply because they

31:50may, they may have the same condition or ability for the rest of their life, but yet they still love being out there, you know? So this allows them to continue to hunt with a mentor at their side at all times, which I think is a great thing too. I mean, we're just trying to keep people safe, right? I mean, that's what laws are for. But when you think about that gun being pointed at your head, I mean, you just can't do it. And I cannot tell you how many times I've seen people mishandle a gun.

32:22I can't even tell you. And it is unacceptable. Well, we've heard horror stories like, uh, BD from Texas. Yeah. I mean, he's blind now because you got shot in the, shot in the face. That was an accident that is probably happened a lot. And easily avoidable. But what I'm talking about is you're standing around in a group and people are swinging the gun barrel around and it goes right past this person, right past that person. The carelessness of a gun is something that I have zero tolerance, zero tolerance.

32:54Like you're done for the day. You need to think about this to the point that it should shake somebody. That's how they, they need to feel about it because, oh gosh, I mean, you just can't take that back, but you're dealing with young kids, right? Yeah, but the sad thing about it is too, when you're, you know, even me teaching 53 years, you'd think I'd be perfect. And as a human, you're not. None of us are. Yeah. I catch myself making mistakes every once in a while. I thought, oh, why did they do that? You know, or.

33:25Well, especially in the heat of the moment. Buck feeder. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Turkey's coming in. Here come the ducks. I mean, all these things happen fast. The biggest thing is that. You have to make a reaction choice. That pheasant getting up in front of you, you know, and you got so many things. You see, you want to get the bird. You want to. Yeah. But where are the guys that are next to you? You know, is there somebody ahead or is it the bird swinging that way or this way? And it can happen so quick and it gets the best of us. It does. It absolutely does. Okay. When should you put the safety to the firing position?

33:57When should you put the safety to the firing position on a firearm? That's the question. That's a weird way to ask that. Are they asking when to put a gun safety off? So you can shoot the gun. Okay. When A, Alex, when transporting the firearm. B, when crossing a fence. C, when handing a firearm to another hunter. Or D, when it is safe and you are ready to take a shot. Well, D, obviously.

34:24That's a good one. They got to at least put like a few harder answers on the multiple choice, you know? Number one. And number one got us. Yeah. Got us good. Got you good. We can always fall back on that. But that's the hardest one. That's the sad part. Like that shouldn't be the hardest one. That shouldn't be the hardest one. Well, I know that because I'm a dad that has kids that we're working through all this right now. But I think there are several pages in the booklet for this state.

34:57And every state has their own laws. And it's different, probably in a different state. This is a Minnesota firearm safety class. Now, when you get this, does the state provide this to you? Yeah. This is all state written or whatever. How has it changed over the years? Is it the same as it was 53 years ago? No, it got easier. Really? Yep. And how do you feel about that? Questions used to be 100. Okay. Our original test was 100 questions. There was like 75 multiple choice and maybe 25 true and false.

35:30And then the last three were, I think you had to write them out. I think I remember writing some of them out. Is it like fill in the blank or essay? What are the three most important gun handling rules? What are they? And you had to write them out. That was a question? Yeah.

35:53The gun is always... Know what's beyond. Yep. Know where your muzzle is pointed. Always point the muzzle in the right direction. Always treat your gun as if it was loaded. Yep. And there's four now. What's the last one? Can I look in the test? Will we come up on it? Yeah. On which of the following pictures would it be safe to take a shot? Now, the kids get to choose or whoever's taking the test. A, when the shot would be considered illegal or unethical, and there's a photo of a deer

36:25standing behind a private property sign. B, when there is a good backstop behind the animal. So the picture shows a deer standing and there's a hill behind it. C, when the animal is located on the top of a hill, shows a deer standing on the horizon, and you can see sky behind it. Or D, when there is another person located behind the animal. Now you see a deer standing in a field with two hunters behind it. So the question is, which one of these would be a safe shot to take?

36:58I know it, but do you, Alex? I mean, was B the one with the backstop? I feel like the backstop. Yeah, when there's a good backstop behind the animal. Yep. Now, this doesn't necessarily apply to bird hunters in that case. Yeah. Because, you know, this creature is standing on the ground. The bird is up in the air, but there's a safe... You guys talk about firing at birds in the air and when you can take a safe shot? Yeah, that comes with the zone of fire thing a little bit later. Can you explain how you teach that to the class?

37:31Well, the swing and gun thing, I guess to back up a little bit, the zone of fire thing is when you have hunters, say, walk in a cornfield or a grass field, a CRP or something like that, and they're side by side, maybe 30 yards apart or something. And your zone of fire is the area that you can safely shoot in front of you or behind you. And it's usually about a 45-degree angle from your body.

38:06Yep. You know, so like that. Left or right. Yep. You'll get to shoot 360. So if the bird swings to the left, you can shoot until it hits that 22.5 degree or whatever, and then it's in the next guy's zone. So that's the thing we talk about. That might be the most commonly broken rule in hunting the zone of fire because they follow and keep shooting until the third shot is out of their gun or the second shot is out of their gun. That's where you got to know where your partner is.

38:37I mean, that angle can change a little bit depending on how close your partners are to you. You know, if they're way further apart, you can maybe cheat a little bit, so to speak. I think people that are listening right now, my hope is that you'll remember some of these things and you'll talk about them the next time you go hunting with people in the field. There's a lot of hunters that'll give a little pep talk beforehand at the truck. Here's what we're going to do. Here's where we're going to go. This is know your line of safe shooting, right? I do it with my kids and we'll be walking and I'll constantly stop and be like,

39:10okay, where's your safe shot right now? Where is it not safe to shoot? Which is yours over here, Cash? And which one is yours, Weston? Or whoever's walking with us. We talk about the safe line regularly, regularly. And maybe I'm over the top when it comes to this, but I don't think so. I just think sometimes people get lazy and they don't do it enough. They don't talk about it enough.

39:35It's a good reminder because like we said earlier, you get wrapped up in the situation and it's only a two-second thing and it's all over. I think it's good to have it pounded in their head because that's my biggest fear about going hunting. Yeah, you've talked to me about this, but you're nervous about it. Yeah, like if the adrenaline kicks in because it happens like that, you know? All these things going through your head. So I don't think you're being over the top because I think that they'll just subconsciously they won't even have to think. They'll just know that this is where their safe shot is at all times. And they know when it's okay not to take the shot. Like it's okay to not shoot at the bird every single time, which I was, I wanted to do that at first.

40:12But then after taking this course, there were so many shots I didn't take just because I'd rather be safe than sorry. Oh gosh, that's the best way to go about it. And some people are like, I'm going to take the shot no matter what because I just want the bird or I want the creature or whatever they're hunting, you know? And it's not the right mindset. Who is required to follow the rules of firearm safety? This one. Sorry, I laugh at all of them because they like. I know, but these are the real questions.

40:43Hunters under the age of 18? Gunsmiths? Person hunting from a tree stand? Everyone using a firearm?

40:52D. D, right. When should the trail carry be used? Trail carry is, I don't really have enough space to stand up here on camera. Do I, Al? You do. Okay. So you're basically holding the gun with one hand at your side and it's pointed forward as you're walking. That would be the trail carry. And we call it the suitcase carry. The suitcase carry? Mm-hmm.

41:20When is that supposed to be used, Doug? That can be used, obviously, when you're by yourself. Yep. If you're walking to a hunting situation, if you're the lead person, because obviously nobody's in front of you, you can use it while you're hunting, just to relax your arms a little bit, you know, if you want. And then that's basically about it. Yeah. Not a lot of times when that is a good way to handle your gun, because you don't have

41:51full control of it. What are the four parts of a rifle cartridge? Here we go. The bullet, the wad column, gunpowder, and primer. That's the first one. B would be shot pellets, wad column, gunpowder, or primer. That's B. Number C, or letter C would be bullet, case, gunpowder, and primer. And D, slug, case, gunpowder, and primer. This is a rifle cartridge. Hannah and Alex, what do you think it is?

42:23I'll let Hannah answer. I don't know.

42:26I don't know.

42:29D.

42:31I don't know. I would need to look at them more than once. Yeah. Doug, you're going to go A or C on this one. The key here is rifle cartridge. Rifle. So, they're describing a slug would be a shotgun. Yeah, I was going to say it wouldn't be a slug. Shot pellets, that's also a shot shell. That's a shotgun. Yeah. So, the rifle. So, bullet, case, gunpowder, primer.

43:04C. Yeah. See, when you said it was a rifle, it made a little bit more sense that it wouldn't be a slug. I just was a little, wasn't sure about the pellets. Yeah, the WOD is part of the shot shell, part of the shotgun, which, do you guys bring in different ammunition for the kids to see? Yes, we do. Okay. Yeah. The different gauges of shotgun shells, the different rifle. Not a lot of the rifle cartridges. We have a big sheet that we show them, you know, and there's like hundreds of different

43:36kinds of rifle cartridges. Do you guys watch any videos? Yes. Do you pull up any of our shows and show them what not to do? No, no, no. These are all supplied by the state. Okay. Well, joke's on you. The state likes us. Yeah. When crossing a fence or other obstacle alone, what should you do with your firearm once it is unloaded? Cross the obstacle while holding the firearm, but make sure the action is open and the safety

44:06is on. B, toss the firearm to the other side of the obstacle. Be careful not to have the muzzle hit the ground. C, set the firearm on the ground, pointing the muzzle away from where you are crossing. Or D, lean the firearm against the obstacle you are crossing and retrieve it once you get to the other side. Was A the one A was holding on? A was cross the obstacle while holding the firearm, but make sure the action is open and

44:36the safety is on. See, that seems like a good one, but if you're crossing a fence, depending how you're crossing the fence, then you have one arm holding onto the gun, one arm tracking around. There's no judgment here, Alex, on anything you say. You didn't grow up as a hunting. And D was setting it, setting it on the obstacle? D was lean the firearm against the obstacle you are crossing and retrieve it once you get to the other side. I don't know. A seems good because you have the action open and the safety is on. It's C. What'd you say?

45:07C, as in cat? Set the firearm on the ground, pointing the muzzle away from where you are crossing. Doug, this is the controversial one. We give C and D. C and D. You give them both options? If they say D, then I explain what I explained to you about. We don't do it on a barbed wire fence, but on a wooden fence, you can lean the gun muzzle pointing up in the crotch of the horizontal board and the vertical post.

45:41Where the wire meets the wood. Yeah, or the wood meets the wood. See, that's the reason I didn't go with D because I was thinking, well, if it's a barbed wire fence, I wouldn't set the gun on there because it could bounce around with the wind or anything like that. Yeah, we just teach it for the wood fence. Well, then why didn't you do C? I honestly forgot what C was. A seemed fine because the action was open and safety was on. C is the taught answer. D is accepted because I think it's good.

46:11Can I ask why you wouldn't do A? Because I have a feeling I have some reasons why you wouldn't, but why would you say not to do A? Just what you said, you're limited to, you know, the one hand is constantly have to be on the gun. Yep. And then, like they always say, three points of contact when you're climbing a ladder. Yep. At some point, you're not going to have that crossing over the fence or crawling under it or whatever because... That's kind of what I was thinking. If you have to climb a fence, then you're only using one hand to climb the fence and

46:43one hand to hold the gun if you drop the gun or if you fall, you know. So, if you're hunting with somebody, then you, to be completely safe, would unload the gun, make sure the action is open, hand it to somebody, you cross the fence. Once you're across, they hand you the gun and then they cross while you're holding theirs. Yeah, that's exactly how it's done. Yeah. I would say that's done correctly maybe, would you say 10% of the time?

47:14Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. I think that's one of the most commonly broken gun safe... What do you think people do? What's that? What do you see people do for the most part? They hold the gun, they grab the top row of the fence, they step on the second row and they launch themselves up and over while holding the gun, which is still loaded, and or they leave the gun loaded, they lean it up against the fence, they cross, or they keep the gun loaded, hand it to their buddy, cross the fence, now you're handing loaded guns back and

47:46forth. It's mostly just not unloading the gun. A lot of unsafe handling when it comes to fences, for sure. I think that's probably number one. I would think so. Mishandling of it. Do you guys talk about how to get up into a tree, or have I just not gotten to that point yet? It'll come. It'll come. It'll come. Yeah. Oh, here we go. I'm going to hold this Benelli Montefeltro here, which is a lefty. I don't even know why we have this here.

48:17Who shoots lefty? Bill Shirk is a lefty. Okay, I was going to say. Yeah. Okay. Which part of this gun, this firearm that I'm holding here, is the stock? Is it right here?

48:34D. Is it right here? Which would be C. Is it right here? Which would be B. Or, I guess, this does not have a scope. But right up here would be a scope on this gun right here.

48:52Hannah and Alex, where is the stock? D. Yeah, D. This one right here. You messed me up because you started with D. I went backwards. Yeah, you did. Yeah. Okay. Where is the action on this firearm?

49:08Actually, I have to turn this. There you go. Where is the action on this firearm? Are you going to give us letters or no? Not here. You already established this as a stock. Well, obviously not D. What were the letters again? This is all good stuff for everybody to learn about their gun. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They should know it by now. They should know. Yeah, exactly. Right here. This part right in here. Is which one? Or up here? That part.