How to Know What Will Sell Before You Create It

Introduction to Art Marketing

0:00Coming up on today's edition of the Art Marketing Podcast, how to know what will sell before you even create it. And specifically, we're going to build on everything that we've covered so far in episodes this year and explain how we need to take a page out of stand-up comedians playbooks and how by doing so, you're going to 10X your art business this year.

0:30All right, welcome back to another edition of the podcast.

Review of Previous Episodes

0:40Let's talk about the arc so far, okay? The first five episodes of the year that I released that you, the loyal listeners, have been consuming. We've got episode number one, the artwork didn't change. The story did, the Van Gogh story, talking about how the story is potentially one of the most important parts of the body of work that you create. Episode two, one metric and one metric alone to rule them all, the number of new customers acquired per year.

1:10That's what we're here to do. We want to 10X that. Episode three was context is king. Learning how to keep files about your business in folders so that you can be an AI tourist and significantly hit the ground running, okay? You can move way, way quicker if you follow that. Then an episode for more story, for prompts to pull your story out, especially for you guys that think you don't have a story and your story is not interesting. And then last week we did the coffee shop test, right? And if your social media is all art with no story, no human being, that's not going to

1:46work. So I feel like we, you got the foundation with this, okay? You have a strong foundation about knowing what it is that you need to be doing. So what we can do next is start talking about the timing and the, or start talking about the system rather, how to put it all into place. And the timing right now is flawless, right? We are in February 19th as I record this spring is coming. And, you know, traditionally on this podcast, the majority of what we taught at art storefronts, like spring is when you start getting ready. And when you really start ramping things up to build your audience, to get your heart in

2:21front of as many eyeballs as possible. For as many new people to discover you are a creator that creates things that are for sale so that when you get to the end of the year, you have a big year, right? Spring is the time when you're planting things. And, you know, the, the most unlikely example that I'm going to use, okay, to prove this whole

Standup Comedians as Role Models

2:41thing out. And so you guys have heard me talk about this before, but is standup comedians, right? And I just, I'm so fascinated by standup comedians about what they do, the whole thing. And I think the parallels that particular artist endeavor, being a standup comedian to what you guys are doing, the parallels are just so strong, right? You know, with artists at a macro, there really is nothing new under the sun. You can learn a ton from each of the various different disciplines and how they apply themselves to become successful in their particular discipline.

3:14But let's get back to ours, right? And as I reference standup comedians, like I just, I love this notion of the comedy special, right? And maybe it's Netflix, maybe it's HBO, maybe it's Comedy Central, wherever else they do in these days. The comedians, they go out on the road all year long, usually for a year, a little bit less than a year in some cases. And they're just trying material, getting better, improving, sticking with the winners, dropping the losers. And then at the end of the year, they end up with a special that has everybody laughing,

3:49laughing out aloud, rolling on the floor, laughing real full. And it's a huge hit. And when you think about that process, the comedic process to get to like a big Netflix special, it's really just, it's just a loop. It's just, it's like a business development marketing loop, if you like. And it's the same loop in the art business. It's essentially the same. And, you know, it's like you work all year long to build an audience. And then at the end of the year, you capitalize on it when the most art is sold, when consumerism in North America, certainly, usually the rest of the world too, as at its all time highest

4:23when the most things are purchased in the end of the year. And the Q4 rush aside, this, the timing on it is really immaterial. I think this loop works no matter when you start it, no matter when you decide the end of it is, it just, it works. It's a great way to think about your art business and how to frame your art business. Okay. And it just so happens to that, as I previously alluded to, as I'm recording this right now is the perfect time to get going on all of the above because we're through the new year.

4:55We're through the new year's resolution month, January. A lot of those have gone out the window. Some have stuck congratulations on those of you where they've stuck, but now is where the rubber meets the road. We're starting to get into spring. And this is really when we build things up so that we're going to have a great end of our year. And going back to the comedian example, like no one ever sees, or no one ever talks about the process behind the Netflix comedy central HBO special. And when you do is when it starts getting really, really interesting.

5:27Right. And you start hearing all of these stories and you hear about Chris Rock doing 40 to 50 to 60 unannounced sets in a 50 person club in New Jersey with a yellow legal pad. Right. Seinfeld before he got onto Seinfeld, before he got onto the sitcom, he was doing 300 shows a year. Okay. Three hundred five to seven nights a week. Sometimes, um, small clubs, right? Uh, Louis CK, 15 years.

5:59Okay. 15 years. He spent what he doing, what he called this shitty hour before he, he borrowed a method from George Carlin and became really, really famous. And then you've got the new King of comedy, I guess is Nate, Nate Vargozzi. As I was looking at the numbers and I think he said he did 50 theater shows ahead of his big breakout special, which was like right after COVID, all of those 50 shows, all to hone his material down to one hour. There's famous stories of Kevin Hart who just pulls out his phone and starts doing his material

6:30everywhere. And he's got like bullet points on his phone. He does it in bowling alleys. He does it wherever, all over the place. And the takeaway is like the ratio of ideas tested for these comedians. Okay. Is it's gotta be hundreds of thousands relative to the number of ideas that actually make it into the special. They're just taking a ton of shots on goal. They're trying so much in materials, so many different ways of going on it. And there's this guy, Matt Ruby, that's got a statement about Chris rock that says,

7:01and I quote five to 10 lightning bolt lines per night. He starts with those bolts and then just writes his show around them. Right. And the takeaway is that you can't find out what your lightning bolts are, right? Your hit art pieces, your hit stories, your hit social media posts, your hit emails, your hit direction, narrative, whatever the case may be. You're not going to find out what your lightning bolts are unless you are shipping at that alarming rate as well. And you can absolutely do it.

7:31We've already built the foundation for how to do it. AI can help you ship a ton of these things. You just sort of need the working framework. And so you want to put yourself in a position where you can find out where your lightning bolts are.

Finding Lightning Bolt Ideas

7:43I really, I really like that lightning bolt idea. And as I dig into the Canadian analogy, it's so good on so many different levels because every single solitary comedian, like especially the ones that are really, really good. They go through it for years, some three to five, some five to seven, some 10, some 15 until they hit, right? Like Seinfeld, it took a long, long time. This comedian, Ali Wong, who's huge right now. She used to do nine sets a night before her big special hit. Chris Rock, I know, did two years, two years training and getting ready before his breakout

8:19special, which was Bring the Pain in 1996. Louis CK, again, 15 years of being stuck. And then he pivoted to the George Carlin method. And all of a sudden he started having breakout hits. So I think this timeline, like it, it maps to artists, right? And I love hearing about other artists in a different discipline going through the exact same thing, because there's so much of this, like, I wouldn't want to call it entitlement because I don't necessarily think it's entitlement. I think it's just like bad information out there that you can just start creating as an artist.

8:50You can just start creating as a photographer and you're going to be a huge hit year one, year two, year three, right? And it's just not how it goes in any of these disciplines of the arts. It's just really not. And I, you know, I think, I think the comedic sort of timeline, right? Like it maps, right? Like years to one, two for a comedian, you're doing open mics, you're bonging all the time. You're finding your voice, you know, years three to four, you're getting club spots. Your material's getting better. You know, you're really starting to sell places and they're coming to see you.

9:20Years five to seven, now you're headlining places. You're building the following. You're getting consistent income. You're seven plus. You got a special. The machine is now running. You're on your path to just being absolutely huge. And I think most artists could potentially place themselves somewhere in like that time horizon. And I think it's just so freeing when you realize that in all honesty, despite the fact you might not be getting the highest engagement on social media, or you're not selling out, or you don't have galleries banging down your walls to come and get you.

9:52Where you are could be completely where you're supposed to be and totally normal for the journey that is making it as a successful artist or a photographer. And I think once you come to terms with that, it actually will feel pretty good. Because like, look, if you haven't been grinding and putting in those times and doing all those open mic nights and all the rest of it, how are you expecting to get there? There's no artist or photographer that you know that's famous, that I know that's famous, that hasn't gone through that little time horizon. That hasn't gone from, you know, the open mic nights to the small venues to maybe headlining to the Netflix special.

10:26So it's a cool thing. It's a really, really cool thing. And I think we can apply this framework to less about how we create our art, right? Because I know for most of you, you're hearing this and you're like, Patrick's telling me to do different art all the time. And I'm not. It's not necessarily about your art. It's how you approach the entire business. What would the comedian do? What do the comedians do? How does that lens work for me? And a comedian doesn't get up there and tell one joke for 60 minutes.

10:56And neither should you. Neither should you. Yes, you can post your new material online, right? You can do a new subject, a new piece. Does this resonate? Yes, you can post your personal story, your origin, your why. Do they connect with that or not, right? Yeah, you can do the callback, revisit what worked, you know, go back to the greatest hits. Yeah, you can do crowd work, like comedians do polls and questions and what should I paint next, get them to participate, right? Yes, you can be a closer, a sales post, right?

11:28That ending joke that goes for it. And you can do throwaways to quick, simple, dirty, pulling up Kevin Hart, pulling out his iPhone at a bowling alley and try some things. And I think if you adopt this as a framework, this type of comedian framework, right? It can just be so important. Every time going in, you're not telling the same jokes all the time. Do some new material. Do a personal story. Pull some stuff out from the greatest hits. Work the crowd a little bit. Ask questions on social media. Run a poll. What do you think?

11:58What should I paint next? What should I create next? What should I be working on? Do you like A or do you like B? Do a little bit of that. Of course, you're going to have closers in there because that's how you measure. The closers are the sales where you go for the sale and where you ask for the sale, right? And you can 100% approach your material this way and you will do significantly better if you do. Break it into a five-day-a-week format, right? Like easy enough. Monday, new material. Test something new. A new type of social media post. A new way of showing your art. A new way of talking about your art. A new way of articulating it, right?

12:30On Tuesday, post your process. You in the studio, how you created it. Expose some of your story. On Wednesday, ask them what all of the above, you know, what they feel based on what you shared so far or on what you're working on or did you see it? Like try to get some feedback, right? On Thursday, go back to the greatest hits. Talk about why the greatest hits are the greatest hits. On Friday, go for a sale. It's a simple way to break it down into like a five-day framework. I'm not necessarily saying you have to break it down into a five-day framework, right? But it's helpful to think about. It's a helpful way to approach it.

13:01Like how many of you guys are just posting the same thing over and over? And over and over and over and over and over again, right? How are you going to find your lightning bolt when you're posting the same thing over and over and over and over and over again? And I think as we even continue to drill into the comedians even more, it's like they have a solve for all these difficult situations. Patrick, like I'm not getting any feedback whatsoever. None of this is working. I've been taking your advice. I've been posting consistently. I've been trying different frameworks.

13:32I'm telling my story. None of it's hidden. I'm not getting any feedback. What do I do? What are my next steps? And it's like, what does a comedian do, right? The comedians don't just listen for laughs. They read body language, right? And reading body language is something that's absolutely possible in social media, right? Like you have saves, you have shares, you have tags, you have likes, you have silence, which is no engagement whatsoever. You have direct messages asking you, do you sell prints? Is that item for sale? Do you know what you should do about that? You have negative comments.

14:02You have unfollows, right? All of those pretty much map to one's ability to be able to read the room. Do they want to come back to this? Is the audience saying more, more, more? Was it a polite applause, you know, a golf clap, but they don't really want a ton more of it. Was an absolute crickets, a complete bomb, nothing. Maybe don't do that again, right? If you got direct messages, hey, this could be a winning piece of content. This could be a lightning bolt, right? And let's do more and more and more of that.

14:33And I think what's the most amazing, the most important, and I think maybe the biggest takeaway that I hope everyone takes from this is like, you have permission to bomb. I have permission to bomb. We have permission to bomb, right? Every comedian, you know, in love has bombed hundreds, if not thousands of times. They just have. It's built into the job.

15:04Bombing, and just to define it, when you tell some jokes and no one's laughing, when you're trying to get the room going and they just don't respond to you, when they're showing signs of the hook to drag you off stage, right? Your joke can bomb. Your whole presentation can bomb. You can have an off night. Like, it's okay to bomb. Comedians bomb. Bombing is not failing at comedy. It's feedback, okay? And helps hone a comedian's craft, right? And if you never bomb, it means you never worked hard or did anything new.

15:39That's it. That's it. I mean, like, that's such a profound point, right? You post one piece. Nobody likes it. Spiral for two weeks. Comedians cross it off the list, and they don't try it the next day. They try a different one. And, you know, I don't think, for most of us, posting on social media that the silence under the post is necessarily a rejection. It's just data. It's just the audience coming back to you and saying, this didn't do anything for me. Louis C.K. has got this line that I'd rather have, I'd rather bomb than get tepid laugher.

16:14I'd rather bomb than get tepid crap laughter for my 15-year-old jokes. And he's constantly trying the new stuff. He's okay with bombing. They all are. They all are, okay? And, you know, one of the takeaways is I was studying this. I'm, like, really geeking out on, like, the stand-up comedian thing. Is that, you know, George Carlin, now dead. I actually saw him one time in Vegas. It was awesome. George Carlin, the way that he would go about it is he would work on his material all year long, have his big special, and then that's it.

16:45He would throw all that material away, and he would not use it again. It's not true. He would use it on big shows later on down the line. But he would throw that away and say, okay, it's a clean slate. What am I going to do now? And you learn from what you did. You build off of it. But this notion of forcing yourself at the end of the year to say, okay, this special is over. That's what I did last year. I learned some things. Now it's time for the new material. Like, what a great way to approach marketing. What an absolutely fantastic lens with which we can focus our social media efforts.

17:17And I'm not saying you have to throw your entire body of work away. Far from it. It's just the thought of reinventing your marketing and doing things that are brand new. Doing the things that are brand new is how you unlock the wins that most artists struggle to get. It's how you unlock the wins that most brands are struggling to get. It is the only way that you discover what is the best way for you to get new attention and new eyeballs is trying that new stuff. So, I love the entire notion of this. I think we need to expand maybe for you guys on some tactical ways that you can potentially do this.

17:52Up till today, up till today, we've talked all about story. Because I audit so many of your social media sites. And so few people are sharing anywhere near as much story, anywhere near as much personal content as they are. They're art. It's just art, art, art. So, where's the new material in that? There's only so many different times and ways that you can take a photo of you creating. There's only so many times and different ways that you can take a video of you creating, of the art hanging in the customer's house, of it in your studio, of your hands covered with paint, right?

18:25There's only so many times that you can do all of that. You've got to try some new stuff. You've got to mix it up. You've got to get some new jokes down on the paper and deliver them and see whether or not it bombs. And if they bomb, you don't care. You're all good with it. You're all good with it. And I think, like, a great way to, like, frame the year is just this whole comedic process of just getting ready all year long, of trying a bunch of things and finding out what works.

Applying the Comedic Process to Art Business

18:51And you could say Q1 and portions of Q2 are the open mic phase, right? Take it easy to start. Try one new subject, one new experiment per week. Do something crazy. Do something you saw somewhere else. Do something, ultimately, that you had never done before, okay? Post the art. Talk about why you made it. Talk about your story. Be vulnerable. And just try things. Just try things. You have the permission to bomb. You do that for the entire Q1 portion of Q2, the rest of Q2, the rest of Q3.

19:21Now you're starting to figure out what your hits are. You've got some variations that you know that worked well on social. You've got some variations that you know could absolutely crush on social, right? And so start building a set around those jokes that killed, as they say in the comedic circles. The joke killed. Start mixing them up different ways. Start trying different angles on the stuff that you know, such that by the time you reach Q4, your Netflix special, you're ready to go. You've got all of these battle-tested ideas. You know what's going to get you the engagement.

19:52The more you charge up your engagement, the more all the rest of your post will be seen. All the rest of those posts will be seen. And what an absolutely powerful, powerful framework. And I feel like sometimes on this podcast, like everything devolves into social media marketing, social media marketing. Like it's a question I get asked once a week on the webinar. Like, how do you help us get eyeballs, Patrick? How do you help us get attention, right? And inevitably it goes to social media.

20:24And I was thinking about this even just on this past Wednesday or past Monday when I got the question again. It's like, how do you, what else can I do aside from social media? I don't like social media. I don't understand social media. I don't want to be on social media. And the reality is, is that your comedy club, okay? My comedy club is the six to eight inch screen that people have in their pockets, in front of their faces, in their hands all day long.

20:54It just is. It's got nothing to do with social media, okay? It has to do with being contrarian and understanding that your comedy club is a six inch screen in people's hands. Where do comedians go? They go to where the audience is. Clubs, bars, bowling alleys, right? That is where they go and do their comedy because that's where the audience is. Your audience, when you're not doing your in-person things, lives on their phone.

21:28We may not like it. We may not be super into it. But we have to be able to get our story, our attempted jokes, our new material onto the comedy club that is the six to eight inch screen, right? And so your social media doesn't need to be treated as a gallery wall, okay? It's an open mic night. It's just an open mic night where you're trying new material, okay? You're not always having to perform your greatest hits. You're testing new material, okay?

22:02The comedy club doesn't exist in a building anymore. It's where the attention lives. And going back to the coffee shop test, like how one-dimensional were you? In 2025, was it just art, art, art? Was it just photography, photography, photography, photography? Was it just my creations, my creations? Or did people actually have an opportunity to learn something about you? You can't go on stage this year, okay? And tell the same damn jokes over and over and over again.

22:34You've got to try some new material. My belief is that story, everything that we've learned about story, being a little bit vulnerable, showing people who you are was important 100 years ago, 50 years ago, 25 years ago, five years ago, last year, and this year too. This year, as I stated, in the face of AI and everything being fake, it's even more and more and more important, which is why I just keep hammering and hammering on this. On the episodes to come, more and unique and interesting and creative and hacky ways

23:11for you guys to get your message, to get who you are, to get your story into that six to eight inch screen that is your comedy club, right? That is where we all need to fish to get attention. So, if you haven't listened to the episodes up till now, go back, start at the beginning of the year, and just do it, right? Just do it. Chris Rock does 50 sets in a room of 50 people before he films one special for 50 million.

23:45Not saying we're going to get to 50 million, but I love that. 50 sets in a room of 50 people before he films one for 50 million. That's an amazing line. You think he can skip the testing phase? You think he's so famous, he's so talented, he's so incredible that he just doesn't have to test to make sure his $50 million special doesn't bomb? No chance. So, spring, you guys, where we are, it is your open mic season. This is the time to do it. Starting to work on this now. Starting to do your one-night stands at all these various different comedy clubs,

24:20sometimes multiple nights in a row, is how you are going to find those lightning bolts aforementioned. How you are going to find your hits, okay? You have permission to bomb. You are supposed to bomb. Bombing is not losing. Bombing is part of it. And it's just how many times you bomb until you find out where your true winners are, right? All the greatest artists are just the ones that never stopped. It's the only difference between them and everyone else. They never stopped. So, this year, I really, you guys,

24:51I want you to treat your art business like an art business this year. I want you guys in a position, when you get to the end of the year, your sales are going to tell a vastly different story than the years previous. I'm going to keep coming with the content that helps you get there. Spring is here. Let's get going. And on that note, thanks for listening. And as always, have a great day.