TN:185 Charli xcx, A. G. Cook & Finn Keane

Welcome and introductions

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Introducing Charli XCX, A.G. Cook, and Finn Keen

1:00Hello, I'm John Kennedy and joining me for this episode of Tape Notes is Charlie XCX with producers AG Cook and Finn Keen to talk about how they wrote, recorded, and produced Charlie's latest album, Music Fashion Film. I was joined by Charlie, AG, and Finn at Platoon Studios where we got into how the record came together. It was really, really interesting. Music Fashion Film is a little departure, in a way, to the world or from the world of Brat. Last time we spoke to Charlie, it was just as Brat was about to be released.

1:32I think it was the evening before the release, and there was a real excitement and tension. Obviously, Brat went on to be a cultural phenomenon around the world. It defined an era, and I think in some ways, music, fashion, film could well do that, but in a different kind of way. If you'd like to watch our conversation, the full video episode is available to see on the Tape Notes Patreon page, as well as some exciting extras that aren't in the audio podcast. The full video episode also includes a look into AG's and Finn's Logic sessions as they're breaking down the tracks.

2:03There's a lot to see, so head over to patreon.com forward slash Tape Notes to check that out. Thank you as well to our partners at Tape It for supporting the show, as well as their flagship app, Tape It, the recording app made specifically for musicians. They've also released a brand new Denoiser plugin, the Tape It Denoiser, which does an amazing job at removing background noises while keeping your recordings sounding completely natural. It's also half price, so to find out more, head over to tape.it forward slash Denoiser. But now, without further ado, let's get started.

2:43Charlie XCX is a British singer, songwriter, producer and actor. Since her debut album, True Romance, in 2013, Charlie has put out a further six records, building a fiercely loyal fan base and pushing the boundaries of pop with each release. In 2024, Bratt took Charlie to new heights of global fame and critical acclaim. The album sparked the Bratt Summer cultural phenomenon, earned three Grammy Awards the following year, became multi-platinum selling and cemented Charlie as one of pop's defining artists of the decade.

3:14Since then, she has continued to push her music in new directions, creating the critically acclaimed soundtrack to the feature film Wuthering Heights, before returning with Music Fashion Film, released in July 2026. A.G. Cook is an artist and producer from London, best known as founder of the PC Music label and art collective, pioneering the hyper-pop genre. As an artist, Alex has released three solo albums, each exploring a different side of his musical identity, from the experimental and boundary-pushing 7G,

3:45through the more melodic and personal Apple, to his most recent album, Britpop, released in 2024. Finn Keen is an artist and producer from London. Working with PC Music from its inception, he released four EPs, followed by the album The Finn Keen Experience, in 2024. He has shared his production talents with many other artists and producers, and collaborated closely with A.G. Cook, with whom he shares the Thy Slaughter Project. Alex and Finn both began working with Charlie XCX in the mid-2010s, helping shape the experimental pop sound that would become central to her music.

4:19Their long-running creative partnership has since produced some of Charlie's most influential projects, including Pop 2, Charlie, Brat, and Music Fashion Film. Today, I join Charlie, A.G., and Finn at Platoon Studios, and what better way to start than by hearing something from Music Fashion Film. This is Wink Wink. I used to lick cream of strawberries in the summer. Maybe I fucked your dad. Just kidding, I'm only saying that for a fact.

4:50But my point is I think people can change. I used to jump on trampolines with no underwear on. I know they see just sweat trousers. Do you get me? No, you don't get me. No, you don't get me. No, you don't. Here's the truth, I'm not gonna be honest. I'm not a bad girl anymore. I promise. Here's the truth, and I gotta be honest. We're not a bad girl anymore. Wink, wink, wink, wink. Here's the truth, I'm not gonna be honest.

5:22I'm not a bad girl anymore. I promise. It is Wink Wink by Charlie XCX from the album Music, Fashion, Film and I'm very pleased to say that I am sat now in Platoon Studios with Charlie XCX. Hello, Charlie. Hi. Finn Keen. Hello, Finn. Hello. A.G. Cook, welcome back. Hello, how's it going? So, Charlie, you came on before with Bratz, which was very exciting. A.G., you've been on now three times.

5:53It's your third appearance. But, Finn, your first time on Take Notes. So, welcome. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you. It's great to have you all here. And it was really exciting last time around when Bratz came out because I think we recorded that episode just before the day before it was released, I think. Yeah. And now we're just a little bit before Music, Fashion, Film comes out. So, thanks again for allowing us into your world and getting behind the scenes.

Making No One Lasts Forever

6:18It's very exciting. So, the first song we're going to look at is No One Lasts Forever. Before we start hearing that, what did you want to do this time around for the new record? Oh, well, I think I wanted to start in this place. Actually, before even starting, I kind of thought that I wouldn't start for quite a long time. I think that was the main sort of thing. I really didn't feel inspired, actually, at all. And then suddenly, out of nowhere, I kind of just did.

6:52And I don't know. It's like that. I think that just kind of happens sometimes. It's sort of dead in the water until it's like very, very alive. And I think that is what happened with me. And it really took me by surprise because I really thought that I probably wouldn't make a record for a minute. But then, I don't know, it just started sort of happening. And I think, I mean, everybody so far is very much like in the kind of, they believe that we really like made the record in Paris. And we did, but I think actually it started sort of over text in summer of 2025.

7:28I think I had begun to kind of crave wanting to write. So I was asking Finn to sort of send me tracks. And actually, I was like voice noting you a lot of ideas on my phone. And that's kind of how it began, actually. A lot of me singing voice notes in my phone, which normally is not my process at all. Normally, I really like to be in the studio, in the booth with a lot of auto-tune, like figuring out melodies and really using that as a tool to write. So I think initially with this album, it started in a very different way.

8:02It started very much me singing in the room, singing into my phone. And I think it was you, maybe when I sent you an idea that didn't end up on the album. We were kind of talking about how actually, oh, it's kind of cool that it's sort of, the ideas are being sent back and forth in this very like lo-fi type way. And I think that process. Yeah. I mean, also, you know, I always think every time we've ever worked on anything or in any form, the production, I always imagined that it's, you know, the sound of it is produced by you in that, in that kind of continuous personality, like whatever the personality is, you know.

8:36So the personality of like number one angel in pop two is such a definitive time and place, you know, the personality of how I'm feeling now, obviously, of what became Brat and everything. So, you know, that's the perfect feeling actually just waiting for you to suddenly feel super inspired and super kind of present, like photographic in the moment, kind of that feeling. It's just sort of, yeah, even though this one was, I think, more aware of that being like, okay, let's really commit to that process. You know, each one, it's just the, is the exact sort of, you know, persona or personality.

9:10Yeah. And I think just because obviously, you know, Brat became what it became and so many more people identified with it than I ever expected. I think, you know, there was such a sort of, we have our own definition of like what Brat is, but now on top of that, there is also a load of other people's definition of what it is. And I identify with some of those interpretations and I really don't relate to others of them, but I think having that as a sort of, I don't know, a thing that exists, it was kind of interesting like having that in the back of my mind whilst thinking about making new things.

9:55Because it's impossible to ignore, you know, it's like, there is in ways like a response. And I think for me personally, it was like the response had to be in ways completely unrelated. I mean, it's not totally unrelated, but there is a lot of opposites with, I think, our approach to this album. Totally. That's what I was thinking. I remember when we first started, it was just felt really fun and actually quite light. Yeah. I remember you saying, I want to take a break. Yeah. And then of course, more tracks. No, but it was just that really, really genuinely so fun. And I remember just like, I just moved into a new studio and you just coming over and we had such a fun time making, like starting little ideas and bits and pieces. And it just felt so different from Brat.

10:35It was refreshing and fun and not heavy. Not that Brat was like really out of the run. It was great. But you know, there was a lightness to starting this, which I think you feel in the album, I think. Yeah, I agree. Actually, I think we were kind of, we were going out a lot, but in a different, obviously we were going out a lot during Brat, but it was kind of like different. Like, I don't know, we spent a lot of time just like yapping. We were like barely doing any work. When we went to Paris for the first time, we spent an entire like two days in the studio, just not doing any work, just like la la la la la.

11:09And that was like, you know, a very sort of sweet kind of thing. Normally when we get in the studio together, we're very like, like we're going from the jump, you know, and that's still very fun. But there was a sort of very social element to this record. Totally. I think what happened is because you were sending ideas, because we were sort of making stuff remote and then you were coming up with ideas separately. Then when we got in the studio together, it actually took about 20 minutes to finish them and sort of put them down. Right, right. Should we have dinner? And then should we have some wine? Yeah, yeah. And then it sort of became that. And then, you know, it was, it was, it was a lot of fun.

11:42Yeah. Enjoyed, enjoyed the song. Excellent. Well, I think maybe we should get into some music now. So No One Lasts Forever is the first song we're going to look at. And we're going to hear A Blast of the Master now.

Listening to No One Lasts Forever

11:51Yeah, here we go. I don't want to grow home. Now I'm more confident than ever. Since everyone knows my name. All the party's got better. So now I'm sitting on the floor of a parisian department with a French girl talking about philosophy.

12:24And I know deep down that it's here and now. Cause nothing's gonna last forever. No, nothing's gonna last forever. No, nothing's gonna last forever. No, nothing's gonna last forever. It is No One Lasts Forever by Charlie XCX from Music, Fashion, Film. And it's interesting. We were talking about having fun in Paris. But this is very deep in many ways, this song. No, the lyric is very deep. It talks about big concepts.

12:55And it's really interesting because of that and because of the contrast in terms of the sonic aspect of it. And also because of your special guest who appears in the second half of the song. So how did this one come about and the ideas behind it? I think there were big ideas behind it as well. There were, but you know, I don't know if you guys remember this. Like I think before this was obviously a very in the moment track. Like we were all in Paris together. We went out, we had this night with this girl, you know, and then, you know, and the song was written the next day.

13:26But actually before all of that, we had this, we had this conversation about wanting to do like one very long song at the end of the album. Well, we actually, we weren't even certain if it, if it would be at the end, but we wanted to do one very long song. And then there was a moment where we were like, should we call it Brat? Do you remember this? Yeah, I do remember this. It's so crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we were, and we were talking about how, you know, it should sort of be like the most kind of electronic leaning track and sort of playing a bit into that.

13:57And, you know, obviously it ended up a little different. I mean, it is, I think it's the longest song I've ever made. Just, just. Because track 10 is quite long, but I think. Yeah, but this is longer. I think this is the longest song. So that's, thank God, so that's concept locked. Yeah, yeah. But that's where we started with this. We were like, we need a long song because every other song is like. A cold brat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Mentor, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you started, maybe, have you got something you can show us?

14:28Yeah, I mean, there's a lot. Well, this is actually one of the bigger files relatively. Yeah. Well, not because of the track length, actually, but just because the amount of switch ups and the massive feature and all the audio that went into that as well. Yeah. This, this was interesting, too, because we'd already been in this power studio for a little bit and started a few other things. We already had a sort of palette we were referencing. So, and the biggest difference just in general compared to so many tracks that Finn and I have done, like together, separately on any project is this is so audio heavy.

14:58You know, there's like pretty much no MIDI. Any MIDI that's in there is all like chopping up something that we actually kind of recorded or edited or, you know, a lot of the guitars, bass, all that. We're playing it in drum kit sometimes and drum machines. So. Synths as well. Yeah, exactly. Like not really. Yeah. Yeah. The synths are just, there was, you know, it's what we had there. It's like a Moog and a PPG wave and a few things like that. But actually what's interesting about No One Lasts Forever, because we were thinking about it as a slightly more epic version that really like kind of took the whole album inside of itself in some way.

15:31We actually do grab bits and pieces from other, other tracks and, and the guitar as well is kind of, I think the most extreme guitar sound we went for and the amount, you know, so if I solo it, it's this, this one that. It's really broken up. Yeah. Yeah. And it's this plasma pedal and it's actually the third man version. So it's extra kind of, it's got extra layers. It's really, really, and we're like compressing it a lot, you know, like putting it through stupid stuff like that, you know, so. To bring out all the little horrible details.

16:01Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's the most kind of DI sounding pure fuzz, pure guitar on the whole thing. And actually a big part of it was even making sure that the drums didn't really get in the way of that. You know, the whole time it's just being driven even by the odd rhythms that inside that guitar take, right? So you can even hear this, this like 606 stuff pitched down a little bit, you know, like, like really soft and weird. There's a snare we actually took from this other track. Yeah. Which is just really, you know, so.

16:33There's the resonator as well. Yeah. Yeah. And actually that's the most interesting one. We have this sort of resonator snare, which has all this pitch in it. And actually you can hear this is a funny bit from a completely different drum recording we did. We're like, oh, let's just try to throw, throw the resonator onto this.

16:53This might be you drumming. I think this is me drumming out. Yeah. So this completely different track had this like funny resonator. And even at the end of this, we kind of, we start playing with.

17:05Kind of milking these pitches out using multipass here, but these two, two resonator pitches sort of coming in and out. So it's, it's a lot about taking this kind of quite small broken audio and like really finding either pitches or making pitches with it. And was this the foundation of the song or was this further down the line? So had the melody and the rhythm and the lyric already arrived or. I think the initial like body of the song and the melody and lyrics kind of arrived sort of together.

17:37And then you guys, the sort of ending of the song where the production kind of begins to get a little bit more like elaborate and go off on its own journey. And David comes in that. Oh yeah. That was, yeah, you guys wanted to, I remember you guys wanted to spend some time in Rue Boyer, like really like finding all of that. Yeah. Because like that was like, I think a whole day you took. Yeah, Finn's got a funny file like that. Yeah, I've got some fun stuff. But in terms of the, the, the, the first arrival of the song, if they, it all kind of arrived at the same, do you have a recording of that?

18:14Well, that was in the studio then just pretty spontaneous. This is pretty close. It would have been, it would have been basically just like.

18:22Yeah. Would have been just Charlie writing over there. Right. And I think we had some of the mode stuff as well in there, but it was very simple. Right. So you had that and then you were discussing the night before. Well, you know, it's a nice thing about working with Charlie that's always really rewarding is like, you'll just have a really interesting conversation and then sort of two or three days later it becomes a lyric or becomes a song. And I really, I find that very inspiring way of working, you know, like, I think these are things we sort of talked about before. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and then it will just come out as this fully formed thing. And it's, it's, it's really amazing to work with Charlie because you, I think so many of your ideas do come out, feel, they feel very fully formed, at least to us.

18:58I'm sure you're taking a while to sort of process them. Not really. I mean, I mean, that, that one, I think, I don't even know what like initial vocal stuff you have of me doing. It's very, there's, there were very few takes of this. I think it, I think it was pretty, yeah, I think it was pretty like, I woke up the morning after that night and was like, I kind of know what I want to say. And I, I think I had some sort of slight insecurity about like, oh, it's all on one note again, you know, classic me. We love it. But I think it, it worked.

19:28So I sort of put that aside because I mean, that's just like part of my style now. And, you know, some people think it's lazy, but I just think it's like a choice, you know. And yeah, it all, everything just fit. I mean, the night before that we'd been out, it was so rich with like conversation, visual elements to the evening. It was just there. It was like the painting was done. I just had to like write about it. I don't know. That sounds so awful, but it really was. It was, it was, it was just there.

20:00Like, and so I don't, yeah. You made the arrangement very easy as well. Cause you're like, well, that's the chorus. You know, we didn't, and actually, you know, other than like slight tweaks, there's not, there's not these massive changes that happen in this initial verse chorus stuff. It'd be good to hear some of that though. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. I mean, the big, the big part really, and this did inspire the second half is what we were doing with all the synth parts. So I just, you know, solo those.

20:36You know, so it sort of gradually becomes more emotional. Yeah. On top of the kind of slightly more minimalist thing. And it's, you know, starting to chop those up, lead us to the kind of loop that we get into towards. Yeah. And keeping in a lot of those sort of little broken details between the transitions. I mean, I think that's literally just like us playing it in, you know, there's no MIDI or anything. Yeah. We're just playing it on a keyboard. They work really well in contrast to everything else. So maybe we should hear them. Yeah. With the brokenness of the guitar as well.

21:07Because it's like, oh, this is, you know, it adds a plaintive quality to it. Go from here. Yeah, I think initially that was, everyone thinks they've got a problem, everyone knows my name. Yeah, yeah. And then that was the one bit. I was desperate to add some notes. Yeah.

21:40Maybe it should move. But I mean, other than that. The one nice thing that I remember when I was looking through this again is there's a, you know, the vocal is very, very simple in terms of arrangement. There is this little chop that happens in the second chorus, which is sort of a callback to probably the quite recently recorded rock music. But, you know, we have this sort of natural vocal. And nothing's going to last forever. You know, we're keeping, we're keeping the clicks in of the kind of strange logic looping.

22:15It's not on the grid. It's got that kind of, and, but, you know, here it's used to such a different end as well. And of course, forever being dragged on later is nice too. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's playing with time. Exactly. We're talking about time. It's all just time. So writing after having that nice night out and lots of thought provoking conversation, when we get to the second half of the song, we have this special guest, David Cronenberg, the renowned film director. And he says some stuff that relates directly to what you're talking about in the first half

22:49of the song. So how did that come about? And how did you set that up? And, you know, how did you capture that? You know, was that months later? Was it weeks later?

Recording with David Cronenberg

22:58It was, yes, it was months later. And actually it was at a point where we were like really, we had to deliver the vinyl audio. It was like really like we were really down to the line. And also at the same time I was shooting the album cover and that was like, I had to, it was, I think we shot it the day before the artwork was due to be delivered. So it was really like an intense time, like running around and getting all of these icons

23:28to just kind of like do the thing that we needed them to do. Talk about me and AG. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you know. But actually we didn't get David in time. So there's actually a different version of the song on the vinyl, which we haven't really spoken about yet, but maybe we can talk about it. Which way around should we talk about it? Should it be after we talk about David? Yeah, I mean, it's all sort of, it's all related. It's all related. Another secret vinyl feature. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

23:58From talking to Finn earlier, the impression I got was that you'd written this song. You had these really interesting thoughts about it, you know, and you wanted to somehow explore that further with someone else. Yeah. Someone who would add maybe a certain aspect to it that you wouldn't be delivering in your voice. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly it. And, you know, there were a couple of people I had in mind. And then I kind of remembered that I had had this really interesting conversation with David when I met him in Toronto in October of last year.

24:33And we were talking about a lot of things. But one thing that we spoke about quite in depth was this moment in his life where he had been walking home and he had collapsed on the pavement. And he was sort of telling me quite intricately about that experience and how he had felt and what he was thinking about his body. And, you know, I was asking him about, you know, the other things that he was thinking about in that moment where perhaps it could have all been over.

25:05You know, I was asking him like now, naively so, I think about like, oh, were you thinking about, you know, your art and your work? And, you know, he was like, no, like, of course not. And we sort of began to, you know, have this conversation. And then when we wrote this song, I kind of thought, oh, he would actually be somebody really interesting to talk about this idea of nothing lasting forever, nobody lasting forever. Obviously, it's such a part of his, you know, language as a filmmaker as well.

25:41Like he always kind of goes back to this phrase, body is reality, you know, and I think that's really interesting in the context of this song. So I basically flew to Toronto and I sat down with him in a studio and we recorded a conversation that was, I think, maybe like an hour or an hour and a half long. And I had kind of written questions before and went a little bit off piece. And I was sort of talking with Alex and Finn before about, you know, things that could be helpful versus not helpful. But he really got it.

26:11Like I didn't have to, I mean, he's such an, he's so amazing. He, he, he really sort of understood it. He was very, very chill. And actually the thing that's the craziest thing was when I sent it to Alex and Finn and I was kind of like, I, you know, there's so much, like, I think this part's cool. I had marked as I was going in the recording, I was like texting the engineer being like, mark this, mark this. But we marked so much of it because so much of it was good. It was like probably like 100 marks. Super useful. Sorry about that.

26:42But they, they really, they found, you know, they sort of like found the pieces and when they sent me back the, the first sort of like rough cut of the comp of his talking, I was like, did you guys tune this? Cause he was like perfect, but it sounded unbelievably natural and they hadn't tuned it. He was just in tune. He's got a great voice. He's got an amazing voice. I mean, it's so, it was crazy. The interview is really the whole thing. Is really such a touching interview.

27:14He's such a grounded, smart. Yeah, he really is. He really is. It was amazing to hear it, but it was, it was really cool. Actually, I think me and Alex, we were just drawn to that story immediately. Yeah, of course. And then we just, we actually just dropped it in to the project and then we were listening to it. And then there was this one little phrase by complete chance that just was so rhythmic and felt like it was said over the music. And I don't know. I couldn't believe it. I'm just thinking, should we hear some of the speech? Yeah. So people know what we're talking about. Yeah, exactly. And then we can go into that bit that you were talking about. The few parts.

27:44But if we're talking about the bit that we ended up looping.

27:48Could we hear more of it? Of course. Let's just go from the whole section that comes in. That would be great. Yeah. Yeah. So we have Charlie's sort of forever echo.

27:58Very trailing off, you know. As I was lying there on the sidewalk, I did not think about art at all. I thought about people. I thought about life. Yes. Yes. Yes. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. But, and that's why I liked being close to my house somehow. That was comforting, even though it makes no sense, you know. But, um, no, I wasn't thinking about art. And I wasn't thinking about art as endurance, as, as, um, immortality, you know.

28:32Yeah. And so, yeah. Amazing. You see, that was just by chance. That bit. So, so you got, you'd edited the conversation that Charlie had had. Yeah. And then you're just trying it out. Put that over the music that you'd already created. It's really simple. And then as soon as that bit even came in and that bit. They are dead. They are gone. They are not experiencing that. And we were like. And rhythmically as well. It's a huge bow. No, it's so, it's. Yeah, it does. He really does. Yeah, it stands out and on that line as well. And I think you'd got him to maybe say no one lasts forever or nothing lasts forever. So then we were, we were then playing with that.

29:02And that also just fit as well in that moment. But, um, so that's what the loop then becomes. Yeah. Because it is amazing because it seems to tie in so well with what you say in the first half of the song. Yeah. The lyrics. And then. He, he essentially, I mean, and the way that you guys kind of, you know, arranged him as well. I feel like it's just like the perfect summary of ego death in a way that I could never do, you know, but I think it's just like, yeah, I don't know. I think he, it's just perfect to me.

29:33I don't think I could ever get there myself. Probably because I'm still a bit too, like in my own ego, but like, you know, he really, it, this song has like made me change the way I think about my life actually and my art. And I think that was kind of the journey I was going on a little bit when writing it, you know, and the realization I was beginning to have. And then speaking to someone like David and having the guys like arrange him in that way, it just made me feel a bit more free, I suppose, as a person, which is really nice, you know?

30:04And I think that that's sort of, for me, at least the intention behind the song. Yeah. Oblivion is freedom. Well, yeah, it's like my new catchphrase.

30:13It is amazing because it really feels as if you're on that journey in what you discuss, but also, you know, because of the massive success of Brat and the way that kind of went on its own journey as well, it really feels as if you're thinking about that, analyzing that with your friends who you're working on the record with as well, but also in a way, these amazing people that you get to meet on your journey, people like David Cronenberg, because you are Charlie XCX, you get to meet him and end up having conversations with him and learn so much about various different things.

30:45It's kind of incredible. Yeah, yeah. I feel so, you know, lucky. And I think that actually as a whole is kind of what the album In Ways is about. Like I've found myself in this very fortunate position where I get to sit down and have conversations with people like him whilst also working not only with my friends, but like the people who inspire me the most, even if we weren't friends, you know, it's like I would be listening to them, you know, in my like free time,

31:17not knowing them, being like, I want to work with them, you know? And I think that that's what, that's kind of like the sort of tone of the whole album. And has David heard this? Did he hear it? Yeah, yeah. David was so relaxed. He was like, yeah, great. He was like doing anything. He was like doing anything you want. Yeah, yeah, literally. And had you played any of the track to him before you had that conversation? Yeah, I played him, I played him the track before. He really liked it. He was like, I very much relate to this. And he'd heard other songs from the album as well.

31:48But he was, it spoke to him, this song. He got it. And he was just like, as long as you don't like, want me to do it on the day I'm filming Law and Order Toronto, I'm down. And I was like, okay, great. And I mean, obviously, you were revisiting in a way a conversation you'd had before. And you kind of mentioned that and said, I thought it'd be really interesting to go back to that and discuss that again. Yeah, I asked him, I said to him, is there anything like off limits? You know, like, he, he kind of knew already, he was like, I assume we're going to be talking

32:20about death. I was like, yes. So he was very open. He's, he's a very kind of... How old is David now? He's, I think he's 83, 84. I mean, he's always been an ideas man. You know, every film has a whole panoply of different ideas that are going on about humanity and the world. Do you have a particular favourite film? Can you... I really, I love Maps to the Stars. I love Eastern Promises. I love the Dead Zone.

32:51There's a lot. We saw the Shrouds together. You love the Shrouds. I love the Shrouds. We saw the Shrouds together. I actually have to stop talking about the Shrouds because I talk about it so much. I'll talk about the Shrouds. But yeah, we did, we went to see the Shrouds together while we were on tour. It really stuck with me in a big way. I won't shut up about it. That's fair enough. And do you think the production was informed by David's words in any way? I mean, we should then play the bit that you loop and just have a listen to that. But it is interesting that his words seem to fall right on the beat and right where you

33:23wanted them without you reorganising them. I think there's also, to his voice, there's sort of this texture to his voice as well that I feel like it's reflected in a lot of the sounds we chose already, which is quite cool. Yeah. It's quite interesting. And then when, so Alex, do you want to maybe look at the bit which we loop? There's a few cool bits. Yeah. So the, you know, it kind of holds on this last loop for quite a while. And we made it interesting in a couple of ways, but. They are dead. They are gone. No one lasts forever. They are dead. They are gone.

33:54No one lasts forever. They are dead. They are gone. No one lasts forever. They are dead. So I won't play the whole thing, but it keeps going. And, and yeah, the, the, the interesting thing about it, I think is we talked about there being this loop, but when we were doing it at first, it felt a little bit too simplistic. And then we're like, oh, let's just do the Steve Reich tape loop thing. You know, it's going to rain. It's going to rain. Yeah. It's slightly out of phase and therefore they drift over time. Yeah. So as you jump forward, you start to hear. No one lasts forever. They are dead. They are gone. No one lasts forever. They are dead.

34:25They're gradually getting more and more out of phase. And actually to, to really get it sounding right, we even did a sort of fake tape wobble. This thing kind of adds a bit of flutter just to one side of it and they're lightly panned and kind of without that, it felt very, very flat. But with this, we actually, oh, it does, it does have that feeling of something kind of unspooling. And of course we have all these other, maybe this is quite funny. Yeah, this is a fun sound. So we have all these little sounds that are throughout the track.

34:55Like I said, we were sort of resampling ourselves, you know, little bits like, right, or this bit, or this one, little things like that, which I think is actually one of the synths with a thing on it, you know, all these humming, humming little bits and pieces. But if we look at FinScream, we just recorded how many, it's quite a few. We just, we did about sort of 10, 15, what's that? 10, yeah. So, you know. First time we've ever jammed. Yeah. This is a very jam song for you guys. Oh, when you hear the jam, you'll see what we get up to, but it's, it's like.

35:31So this is me, I think, playing, Alex is also, I think, playing with the plasma knobs and I'm also detuning the guitar.

35:40So it's the same rig we had for the riff, but just. But then you hear how just that snippet then actually shows up there. And then, but we did like a few other ones, there's more, wow.

35:57It's like being in Berkeley, but then there's this, the basal micro shift as well. Yeah. So really pitched. These kind of details, but the one you can also hear that I think really stands out in this, in this ending is, you know, that one, that's something that keeps on coming in and out at the end throughout the thing, which is cool, which is actually the PCG. Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah, exactly. It's almost sort of, that's true. Sort of quite French as well in some way, I don't know why. But then, yeah, there's the, what else? There's loads of bits, but just these sort of textures, but.

36:30And it's funny because we're literally running around the studio as many things are plugged in as possible and it's just like doing the worst sounds. Just playing stuff, trying to find the ugliest things and then turning, but actually then we did something kind of cool, the way the drums. Yeah. So, so this whole second half uses bits and pieces of this jam, which we'll now call it. And, and what the one, one tool I did to, to really kind of bring the most out of it, apart from just selecting and chopping, which is, which felt a little bit predictable, but here's an example. This is like a, a drum loop, but it's, it's actually made, it's made out of pretty much

37:05all of those files. So it's using this weird plugin, uh, called concatenator. And you can see that we've loaded all these MS-20, MS-20 phaser, Vimona, profit stuff. And any audio file you throw underneath this will actually start just kind of finding tiny bits of all the samples that are similar in pitch. Right. Or so if I solo that, it's like catching and it's weird because it's a very like digital new plugin, but with, with doing it with, with all these other things and, you know,

37:36I could drag another piece of audio, you'll see it kind of, it'll just find, and it's, you know, has that sort of radio dial feeling as well, but it was, it was a nice way of just actually being able to like sample tons of stuff in this really ambiguous, uncanny, uh, way that I tend to like, uh, and yeah, so it's a, it's a kind of a mix of really selecting little regions and letting some bits be kind of chaotic and random and, and kind of very like 3D. And even actually, I just remembered the, the beginning of the conversation, uh, that we have here, actually I was playing around with this, but I did want to, you know, the

38:11full file we had had Charlie talking as well. We didn't really want to use that, you know, isolating David, but there was something I want to have a little bit of this ghost of Charlie in there. Uh, and there's one that we kind of emphasize a little bit. If you see it around here, isn't it? I thought about people. I thought about life. And so a lot of people say people in your life. Yes, sure, sure, but, and that's, and I'm, I'm sort of filtering it and, and crushing it a bit, but yeah, I don't know, just in the whole mix with all the other strange sounds that are kind of radio film-ish, you know, something about that just feels really emotional

38:49to me as well, you know? Yeah. Well, it helps create the setting in a way that this is a real conversation between two people, you know, especially, I mean, the first time I heard it, I didn't know it was David Cronenberg, it was just like, who's this guy and where have they found this and how did they get this? Because so much of, I guess, narration on records is often found, found sound that people kind of add to their recordings. But this has been done with such purpose that you've clearly known exactly what you were aiming for and were hoping for.

39:21And luckily it all came together really well because I think that you already knew it would because you've already had the conversation. And in a way you could say that, you know, that conversation was already in your head when you wrote the song and wrote those first words. And that's probably why you're at somebody's apartment in Paris discussing the meaning of life, you know, whatever time of day or night it was. You were awfully pretentious. Yeah. Was I there? Cringe. You were. You were very much there. I started dipping. I met some of the characters.

39:51I was like, I'm leaving. Yeah. It was too cringe for you. Yeah. Oh my God. I think actually the other interesting thing to talk about is we knew this song was going to be long. I think you'd already talked about getting David and having this conversation, but we were cutting the vinyl this time and I think it is, it's fun to talk about because, you know, actually a lot of the album for me sounds really, really like itself on vinyl more than, I don't even care about vinyl really, but we were doing a lot of things to like, you know, to hear you.

40:24No, but, but it's, it's got this kind of intensity, right. And this intense vocal point and like the idea of cranking something and it fitting onto a record and all this stuff and, and we, we'd had this kind of very long, you know, this forever, not quite infinite, but you know, long loop and it comes back in, in the full track, but we had this and we were like, okay, for the vinyl, like we still want this track to be long. Can it be really, really long? What can we do with it? Fill that whole end of the side, maybe what, how, how are we going to mess with that?

40:55And the end we, I was really pushing this idea of using a locked groove. Yeah. Of course. You know, and it's the most vinyl vinyl thing to do, you know, and yeah, actually, I think it's really pretty haunting as well. Cause it's like the tape loops, you know, it's not completely accurate. It's not BPM locked in that way. So you, you hear that tail off and you hear it for a while and then suddenly it just starts infinitely repeating. And slightly off as well. That's what's cool. So it's like, it's like extra little sort of a final syllable that throws it off each time and a weird click as well, every time it goes round.

41:26Yeah. So it has a cool texture of its own. Yeah. To get the vinyl in order to hear this and experience it, but the vinyl you say doesn't have David on it. No, it's, it was sort of one or the other. Yeah. And I, to be honest, I haven't really figured out like how I was going to tell people that, but I guess I'm doing it now. So what an interesting idea. Yeah. But that, and that's purely down to production logistics that. Yeah. It was down, it was down to production logistics, like for sure. But then actually I think like, as we figured out this alternate version, it also, for all

42:00of the reasons that Alex just said, it kind of also like felt right and felt like an equally interesting version that really applies to the song and the album as a whole. So yeah, I guess it depends if you like hearing people talk or not. Yeah. You can kind of choose. So you can hear the talk streaming. It's digital. And on CD. And on CD. Yeah. But not on the vinyl. No. I'm just making sure that I get the right formats. The ideas would flow through at the same time, you know, we knew about, you know, setting

42:31up the recording of David. We knew about making the song along. We had this thing of forever looping, even in the, in the David version and the, you know, the perfect version we have, uh, the, the forever loop kind of. They are dead. They are gone. No one was forever dead. They are dead. They are dead. So Charlie comes back in this very like lone synth comes back. So, so all those things were just sort of bounced around at the same time. We're kind of trying to make it all, you know, have it's kind of the most confident angle possible on, on the outro basically.

43:02Yeah. Fantastic. Let's have one last blast of the end of the song and then we can move on. Sure. Here we go. They are dead. They are gone. No one lasts forever. They are dead. They are gone. No one lasts forever. They are dead. They are gone. No one lasts forever. They are dead. They are gone. It's quite hypnotic. I think. They are gone. No one lasts forever. They are dead. They are gone. They are gone. No one lasts forever. They are dead. They are gone. No one lasts forever. They are dead.

43:32They are gone. So that is No One Lasts Forever featuring David Cronenberg. And interestingly, we have started with the last song on the album. So we're going to work our way now backwards to the front of the record. And the next song we're going to look at is Card Declined. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be back with that in just a moment. when you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed song. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right

44:03skills, certifications and more Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Perfect Bistro Cat Food. Cats, this ad is for you. Has your human ever called you picky, persnickety, choosy? If so, Perfect Bistro Cat Food is for you.

44:35With ingredients like wild-caught tuna and pasture-raised lamb. From tantalising textures and delectable flavours that meet even the most discerning cat standards. You're not picky, you're just perfectionists. Perfect Bistro, mealtime perfection for every cat. Have your human visit perfectbistro.com The next song we're going to look at from music, fashion, film is Card Declined.

Writing and producing Card Declined

44:58But before we start doing that, I've got a couple of questions via Patreon. One from Ross Drummond who says, After having such a successful record with such an identifiable sound, were there sounds, tricks or pitfalls you were wary of using in the making of this, whether lyrically or in production? Yeah, we had a few no-gos, didn't we? Like, don't use... I mean, I feel like most of the core synths on Brat pretty much aren't as nice at all. Yeah, we didn't even open any of those plugins. Joe asks,

45:29When a production idea sounds strange at first, how do you know whether to keep exploring it or move on? Well, that's a good segue. Oh, really? I mean, it's like they... It never sounds strange to me. No, I mean, I think we're all sort of on the same page that it's like, sometimes we will make something like really bad and crazy, but that's like, okay. That's like the charm of like us working together.

45:59Like, oh, by the way, and then we wouldn't release that, like just to let you, just to say. But I mean, it's like, I don't know, we're very... Nothing, I don't think anything particularly like freaks us out. And if it does, we can like laugh about it. And like, you know, like I... We're not going to bring up what it was, but like I had this one like really terrible lyric idea for this record that we went down the line with and then we were like, no! But we try it out though. We can try it out. It's like fine, you know, we can always do it, delete it, do something else, whatever, keep it going. I like the whole first idea, best idea thing in general.

46:30I also think there's another nice thing, which is I think all of us are quite happy for the demos to feel quite rough for a while. There's not this desire to immediately sort of finish it and make it slick. But I think that actually keeps it open. That can kill songwriting. Yeah, totally. I think it's like if you're getting too in the production, then it kills actually the momentum of the song and the idea. And then also it means, I think it means you sort of think about the production a bit more and what's important and what you want to keep and emphasize. And then, you know, so I actually, I really like that way of working. Yeah, there's a pace to it. And then also, I don't know, like you guys will sometimes do like technically like a crazy track,

47:00but I don't know. You can always sing over anything and make it work. It's more just if I can do the thing over it. And sometimes a very like normal, like more classic track perhaps. It's like, oh, actually, I can't get there on that or whatever, you know. So it's all sort of fair game. Yeah, yeah. But there is a quality control that comes into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not, oh, this is shit. Let's put it out. Right, card declined.

Listening to Card Declined

47:28Let's have a blast to the master. Let's go shopping. I'll buy a handbag. I'll buy some shoes. I'll buy a smile. I'll buy some jewelry. A personality. A whole backstory. Card declined. Let's go shopping. Just a little taste of Card Declined from music, fashion, film. And we've gone from No One Lasts Forever track 11 back to number three, the third track on the album.

47:58Tell us about this and how this came into being. We just start with the thing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. What was I asking for? It's a small music. I think I had asked, I think I wanted to do something really chopped, obviously. Yeah. I think that's, I think that's what I, maybe. Yeah, I remember, I think actually, the weird thing is, I remember the reference for this was really random as well. I think we were talking about trying something like Warm Leatherette, the normal. Do you know that song? Yes, yeah. It's a great song. I don't know how, that was our idea.

48:30And then somehow we made this thing. So, okay, just to explain, so when, as you can even hear in that, there's something a bit kind of woozy and you're like, oh, is this like slowed down or what's with the guitar text on Car Declined? It's slowed down for sure quite a lot. And basically, I think you left the room for like a couple of minutes. Yeah, you had a call. That's it. Yeah, yeah. And we were like, okay, let's make something a bit faster or whatever. And we basically, we made this.

49:17So that's the two of you. And I remember, I think we were doing this and then we were just breaking for maybe some food or something. And I remember leaving and being like, I think we nailed that. I mean, she's going to be, you're going to be mine by this thing we've churned out. Yeah, and anyway, you came at me, you were like, I can't sing over this. I think I have no idea. So it's what you get. No, it was fairly negative by your scale, but we could be like, okay, this isn't working. And actually, as a complete joke, I was like, oh, what if we like slowed it down? And, you know, logic is very speed and minus nine is really like dangerous.

49:50You know, that is too much to slow anything down by, you know, it's going to like crash really. And so, yeah, it's just, I just did minus nine, pretty much a joke, played it back. And you're like, oh, actually, this is kind of cool, right? Yeah, because it immediately became a bit more sort of drone-y, especially the part where the drums come out. Like, that really sort of speaks to me in a big way. Yeah.

50:20It kind of like reminds me of like some of like the velvet stuff, like, I don't know. And you've been hearing that amp feedback a little bit in the room and it's funny. Yeah. Yeah. So then I was into it. Yeah. Yeah. It has a kind of moodiness to it, doesn't it? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really interesting. So that wasn't a waste of time. No. It's never a waste of time. It's never a waste of time. There's always, you always sort of figure out something. Yeah. And so having heard that then, did that get you thinking about words? Yeah. Again, it's so funny, like with me, I do have a notes app of like, oh, maybe this is a cool

50:55idea or, you know, title or whatever, but it's not my go-to always, you know, I think that there's stuff there, but then there's also a lot of like bad stuff there that like never sees the light of day, really. And I think for me, when the thought just comes and then I say it, that's often the best version, you know, where it really truly is spontaneous and you're not kind of plowing through the archives and searching for the ultimate lyric.

51:27Like I think that for me, it kind of takes me back to the sort of 2015 LA songwriting sessions type vibe, you know, list of titles like, oh, this fits that. Like, I don't know, like that it's not as inspiring to me personally. So I think this was another sort of off the top of my head. Do you remember asking you, I remember being like, because it came out really fully formed and all the lyrics, I remember saying to you, did you have that before when we finished it and you were like, no, no, just, just came. Like that was it, just something about that, just made you think of that lyric.

52:00There's something kind of bleak about the sound of this song to me. There's something, there's something really, really sad about it that really spoke to me. And I don't know, I think I had wanted to sort of do a song that was more kind of like on the nose explicitly about shopping or something, but I didn't really know, I didn't really have like an angle on it at all. You know, I wanted it to feel more than just about being like, I'm going shopping,

52:31buying designers or whatever. I don't know, you know, we've done that. I think a lot, but so yeah, then this, this track kind of made me think about how those material things like those clothes and things like that can sometimes make you transform who you are as a person. They can kind of, I don't know, like unlock a new side of your personality, but it can also be very, very fake. It can feel like a performance and there's something kind of sad about that, like accessing

53:02a part of yourself through like an item of clothing. There's something cool about that. There's sometimes something a little sad about that. And I don't know, I was sort of ruminating on those ideas. Obviously, we were also at fashion week and we were also kind of like dressing cute to the studio occasionally. So there was something sort of like real about that as well in a way. Yeah. But I think there's another thing I really like about this is that the next time it comes back, Alex, you want to play this slightly more? Well, let's see. Yeah. There's a more sort of hopeful, there's a twist to it that I really love where it goes

53:34higher and it's sort of like, it's still sad and quite sweet and has quite a lot of pathos to me, but it's like, there's something about this bit that sort of has a hope to it. Yeah, it's like you put the jacket on and you become who you're supposed to be. Right, which I actually find, but it's very sweet and I find that really emotional. That's a jump file. So we worked on the slow down version for a bit and actually I was even just checking it really, as you can see, take one, take two, that's it on all these main ones. So we're working at this kind of slow down state of logic and chopping it up a bit here as well.

54:04And then I'll jump to the other file for how we really finish it. So we had this idea of just totally rearranging all the words to be nonsense. Yeah, and even, even I'll show this really fast because it's quite fun. We did, we did use this a lot of the specifically the robot mode in altar boy to do these kind of harmonies aren't really harmonies, like static one note things. And actually this one gets even weirder because it's going through this thing called bit speak

54:35for the second half. So it starts to get really, it's like even more crushed, you know? So once again, there are some vocal effects, but such different ones to ones we've messed with before really. And then if I jumped to, yeah, so things were getting a bit crazy at this minus nine slow down logic file. So like hitting a wall, hitting a big, big wall. And so I basically had to like fully export and reimport it.

55:08But then we get into this kind of much more episodic version of card declined. Now in this version where we build it out a bit more, I can play the second half.

55:23This is the very like Venus in furs. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just two chords, really simple. And I think actually this original, the PPG sound patch we found here. Oh yeah. I'll play that as well. Which is cool because that was actually in the original demo, even that crazy one. Yeah. The really fast one. I think it was in that first version. It sort of pivoted into that. I'll solo it because it's so odd. I mean, actually a lot of the more elaborate kind of chord, keyboard parts, I would say generally played by Finn. I tend to do some of the more noisy ones, but this is one where I don't know why I was going absolutely.

55:53We were just so inspired by the idea we'd made. Yeah. I was like, maybe this track is already like bombing. It's already going amazing. So how do we take it to another level? Yeah. It's so cool. All those details. And it's a PPG wave, which is a pretty old kind of early digital wavetable synth, but

56:23it's pretty hard to get something super accurate on it. There's a lot of menu diving and it's sort of bright blue and it has a lot of charisma really. And it was on a weird, in a weird way. It was a janky look. Yeah. And it had it, this sound was like, not just drifting in sound, but kind of in pitch. I was even just trying to play and it just created this super weird chord progression, but then with the like vocal harmonies and layering, you know. Yeah. This new melody that has a sort of sweet sadness to it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll buy some shoes. I'll buy a smile.

56:53I'll buy some jewelry. I'll buy some nerdy. I'll hold backstory. God declined. And yeah, there's, there's a few extra guitar parts we added. There's like kind of in, in this kind of, you know, normal speed file, this whole kind of these lead guitars, which also a little bit, no one lasts forever in that kind of blown out plasma fuzz way. But even, even they at the end kind of become like, I think they're actually, we're stretching

57:24them again as well. Yeah. Yeah. Here there's a kind of just resolves in this strange way. And even actually that PPG waves at the very end, it's going through a kind of unusual filter as well. So it's sort of disappearing in this morphing, you know, it's not quite going away, but it's like chewing kind of strangely as it dips down and multipass.

57:58And yeah, so we already have this sort of episodic thing going on. There's also, I mean, we should also point out the drums on this. Oh yeah. It's the Vimona, isn't it? Yeah. It's the Vimona like DRM sort of drum. It's quite a big, simple unit, but also has this, I'll even take out the 606 now, but you know, it's just kind of heavy, but, but crunchy as well. Yeah. That's the thing. It's got that attack that the plasma has and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, there's some kind of noise in it, you know? So, so yeah, we've got these kind of two bits.

58:28I think we should also, I mean, there's a few other things to talk about. We also, this reminds me, we pretty much the whole time we were talking about the amount of tracks on the album, which you don't always, always do, I think. We had some quite like heated talks about this. Yeah. Cause it really meant we had to like sacrifice a few things. Yeah. You mean how many songs you're going to have on a record? Yeah. And how 11 would be the right number? Yeah. There were a lot of sort of opinions about, you know, like why 12 was just like absolutely

58:59embarrassing. Embarrassing. If you're going to do 12, you might as well do 13. Just go to 13. Like it was, there was a lot of heat around not having a 12 track album in a big way. Yeah. But also not 10 because we've done that. Yeah. Yeah. So there was, there was a, yeah, there was a passionate debate about the number of tracks. And is this an ongoing debate you have with yourselves anyway, because you've obviously been making many albums now. Really? And so, you know, have you hit upon 11 as, you know what, after all, those other albums

59:3149 can be good as well. Yeah. Just right. Just right. Yeah. We've only had, we've had a conversation about track number on Charlie. Yeah. I actually don't remember. I think it was 15 in the end. But you wanted 20. That was a tube. You wanted 20. And I remember I was taking the tube from like one side of London to the other and I didn't get through the album. Like, and I was like, it can't be 20. Like people want to like travel and listen to it. Yeah. So like it can't, and I couldn't travel from one side of London to the other.

1:00:03So I was like, it's not 20. So we finished 20 songs for that and then it became 15. Yeah. But it's still quite long. Because that's, you know, looking for that perfect number, what are the criteria and why? No, but that is a good reason. You know, if you want it to be a journey time, you want people to maybe be able to listen to it twice in some journeys. Yeah. I think it's reflective of the album really. Go on. No, I was just going to say, I think it's, it feels quite chic. I don't know why to me. I think we all sort of felt that in some way. I think it's also, there's something about, I think the, the first two Strokes records as

1:00:35well, that are 11 tracks and really concise. And I think that what we were all trying to do with this is make it feel really concise. Then obviously we're talking about this one longer song that became No One Last Forever. But I think there was that idea that that would just fit 11 and then quite a concise album. And all the songs being quite tight. I think just sort of seemed to make sense with the material. Yeah. Actually genuinely. 12 suddenly felt too neat. 13 felt too, you know, 13 is like, you know, opera or whatever. Yeah. So it's like this whole thing of just, I think that from, you know, we were talking about it quite early on, it seemed to fit the music we were making.

1:01:06And the reason I'm bringing it up is because we're cheating here actually. Yeah. We did cheat a tiny bit. Well, there's the B-sides as well. Right. So the, you know, certain singles coming B-sides and because this track was already episodic, we were like, Oh, something else could happen. Yeah. But also we had just either cut this track thinking about you or made it a B-side or, and the B-side version is different. So we're like, Oh, actually we, we wanted at least one jolting thing. And we were like, Oh, maybe it could just be.

1:01:34And it's a, it's a good point. You brought this up because this really is a song of two halves in a way.

1:02:06Totally. Yeah. And that, that was just a demo that we'd sort of really roughly started, I think in the first, that summer. In an early way. Early way starting it. And it was just, it was a full song. Yeah. It was longer. And the full song is sort of using B-side, but we're different with a kind of rearrangement. Yeah. That's just the PPG synth in the B-side that we just sort of made sense there with the, but it's so fun on car decline as well, because you know, it's been so heavy and the slow motion of it. And like, it's, it feels like a really nice place to hear. Yeah. It's like a nice snappy kind of, this is the happy part.

1:02:38Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really rough. It's a really rough, simple one. Like the pedal set up is like, I think it's just one pedal for each sound. So this is just, these two are just, um, going through the boss super drive. And then it's so basic. These two higher ones are just going through the rap pedal to get that sort of crunch, which again, related to the, became related to the plasma and the other sounds we're working

1:03:11with and some of the drum sounds. And then that's basically again, using the 606, which is sort of, this is all sort of how the palette sort of was starting to develop for the album. And, um, a lot of the bass sounds here are sort of quite simple and quite filtered down and quite thin in some ways, which also feels like part of the album. This is just off the bass. Look at that thud.

1:03:34Very, very simple. But I think it was that fit almost just trying to make sort of something. I think initially making this idea was like something that's been thrown together in almost like a sort of seventies post-punk sort of world, you know, very, very simple guitar setups, very simple pedals, just, um, feeling quite rough and immediate. But it's like, I mean, it's, I guess it's an 11 and a half track album. Right. Exactly. Exactly. But this, it feels, I think, cause this, yeah, it's 11. This is so episodic. I think it's just rounding down. Yeah, exactly. I think it's 11. This is still one song. Yeah. Exactly.

1:04:04Yeah. It's sort of like a cute day out in my mind. Like, you know, you're shopping, you're kind of sad. Totally. Oh, you feel slightly better. Oh, wait, now you're thinking about someone. Yeah. It's like, it's kind of has that narrative to it. Yeah. Yeah. It's a nice contrast. Maybe you've been shopping. It hasn't given you the happiness hit you were hoping for, but you had a coffee, you're recharged. Now, now you're free again. Yeah. And you can think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But no. Okay. It's a tiny bit of a segue, I suppose. But I think one thing that I really love about working with both of you, and I think

1:04:36that you like about working with me, although tell me I'm wrong, is I do think, and this sounds stupid because some people maybe watching this would be like, well, yeah, duh, obviously. But I think every single decision that we make, obviously sonically and, you know, production wise, songwriting wise, but, you know, the kind of fun of the like back and forth about the track this length and, oh, we're going to make my longest song at the end of an album full of short songs, you know, all of these little things, I think we really do think about

1:05:10them like really quite intricately. And we do that thought process across each album that we make together. And obviously the process changes depending on the kind of ethos of the record. And, you know, I think some people probably are like, oh, like silly them. Why did they make like a bunch of like two minute songs? And I think it's actually kind of like, well, there is like a reason behind all of the decisions. And I think with this record in particular, an immediacy, like a kind of like off the dome

1:05:42type thing with it that we felt was really important to capture through like having only 11 tracks and doing, you know, doing all the things that we did. Yeah. And yeah, I don't know. I think that is so fun to work in that very like three dimensional capacity. It's the other side of the coin really of working quickly, of having fun and then like being able to reflect on that. Yeah. And what's important, what's kind of worth doing. And then, you know, having a strong brief and then going back. It's like really going back and forth. Yeah. Having like core principles you want to work by.

1:06:12Exactly. It really focuses you and it means we can write less songs probably, but it feels quite focused. And when we do write. Yeah. Which I find. Yeah. And having it reflect in, you know, the, the visual representation of the project as well and things like that. You know, I think for us, it's never like, oh, let's, well, it's never let's write 12 songs. Obviously like that would be really awkward, but no, it's never like, oh, let's just like write enough songs and put it out like that. We probably could do that. But I think we all really enjoy that other sort of meticulous game of the other things.

1:06:43I think when we listen to other albums, honestly, we do think about that. We're thinking about those things. It's the kind of thing we talk about when, you know, we look at other rollouts, other things and projects. It's just, it's part of the universe of it. Yeah. Well, you're not alone and you're, you're artists, you're visionaries, you have a vision and you're trying to realize that vision, you know, and that's why you have these discussions. And that's why 11 is the right number for this record. But it's important. And also, you know, we can clearly see just from listening to two tracks that a sonic palette has been developed for this record.

1:07:13And that's what this record is all about. We are conscious that there's a time limit to our time together. The next song we're going to look at is rock music. Maybe if I'll have a quick blast of the ending of the song and then we can move on. Excellent. Card decline by CharlieXCX. We're going to take a quick break and then it will be time for rock music.

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Writing melody and recording Rock Music

1:09:40The next song we're going to look at for a music fashion film is rock music. But before we start doing that, we've got a nice question from Nick Webb who says, Charlie, what makes a good vocal melody? No matter what genre you're writing in, you always seem to master an earworm. Oh, thanks, Nick. It's true though. Well, thanks. I don't know. I'm really not like a technical person when it comes to writing melodies. You know, I'm not really ever thinking about like, the theory of it, like what technically would make sense, you know, jumping to like the loud, the highest note on the chorus, things like that, like, not repeating notes, obviously, I'm sort of, that's my thing.

1:10:20Um, so I don't know, to me, I think it's just conviction, really. I think that's sort of, not only just with melodies, but with songs in general. It's like, if you kind of commit to it, even if it is something very, very simple, that's sort of the thing. And I think I definitely do have chords that I prefer to write over. And then I have certain chord structures that I can't really kind of do. And so I sort of just steer clear of them. That is pretty helpful.

1:10:50And they know exactly what I mean when I say that. So that's really lucky. And in writing and working on Wuthering Heights. Yeah. Was that a different kind of challenge or did you have to tap into a different approach? Um, I mean, yeah, in ways, because like the lyrical content was, was so different. And I hadn't written like that for a while in this sort of more fictional space. Um, because obviously Brat was so, you know, true to me and my life.

1:11:22And then this was actually sort of the polar opposite in a way. So it was a slightly different headspace in that way. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's such a, an interesting thing, isn't it? The contrast of listening to that, to listening to Brat and now to this new record. Yeah. And it was in such a short space of time. Yeah. It's all happening at the same time. We forget that. I know it's crazy. Yeah. Because at the end of this week, the Ruva, I think we were finishing off Wuthering Heights stuff as well. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, you know, you guys are doing the moment. They were doing the soundtrack for the moment. It's crazy. Right.

1:11:52Well, so yeah, it's hard to keep up, but it's, it's really exciting and inspiring. Yeah. And they're all, they are all in dialogue with each other in that way. You know, every album you've done is, is, you know, responding and thinking about the next step as well. I think. 2027 off. You know? Sure. Sure. Yeah. Well, we have to, we obviously have to make, you know, like the second version of this record or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Right.

Listening to Rock Music

1:12:19Let's talk about rock music. Let's hear a blast to the master. Yes. Got it right here. Great. Now let's have fun on streaming.

1:12:30And I am just like how happy. Yes, really, really? Yeah. Look, I'm justGM when. Have fun. We've done good life.

1:12:37And right. Good thing. My friend. We make stuff together, and sometimes we cry We kiss each other, real incestuous vibes I hate like that Yeah, we're so inspired Basically all the time Yeah, we're on to the next I think the dancer is dead So now we're making rock music

1:13:10Wow I'm really banging my head I'm really hurting my neck The nerve damage is real But it's the only way to feel something Hurt yourself Yeah, maybe jump off the stage I hope they catch you today But if they don't, it's okay

1:13:41I think the dancer is dead So now we're making rock It is rock music from Music Fashion Film The opening track and the first taste we had of this new record And you were talking about inspiration earlier on, Charlie And how you had planned not to do anything You weren't inspired You weren't thinking about and then doing anything And then suddenly inspiration struck Was it at this point? Was it with this? This wasn't the first song that we wrote for the album technically

1:14:14But this was, I think, the first song that we made in Paris Which was, right? And that was our first time working the three of us in the room together And kind of like the beginning of Not ever, but for this Sorry, sorry Yeah, for this Yes, for this album, sorry And was kind of like the beginning of the main body of the album session, I suppose And yeah, I think this was, it was cool We were working at a studio called Rue Boyer

1:14:44Which is like a live, work place So we all had our apartments upstairs And we would kind of come down to the studio in the morning And, you know, we'd have breakfast together And then we would start working And at this point in time, my friend Aidan Zamiri Who shot the album cover was also staying with us He was just kind of documenting us And also, like, doing his own, like, fashion week journey or whatever But the first morning I came down and I had this thought

1:15:14I was like, I really want to make a song called Rock Music Because obviously, you know, like We had been talking about this pivot, you know, I suppose And kind of leaving behind, like, elements of Brat sonically, you know And I think it became an interesting vehicle to talk about that a little bit But also truly have so much fun being back all together in a room Making a song where we were really, like, playing around

1:15:46And I think there was so much, like, joy when we were making this song We made it quite quickly We actually made a version of it before that was, like It's subtle, but it's a bit more electronic in its, like, production, I think And also, my vocal was much more It was harder tuned throughout And then we kind of, like, put that in and out a little bit To just make it feel There was, like, a very kind of locked, sort of hard-tuned version

1:16:19Which actually maybe, perhaps, people who were really into certain elements Of that kind of a sound on Brat might have kind of been a bit more easy To sort of, like, draw the lines of comparisons between the two But we kind of decided that it felt too old or something Yeah, there's more comfort Yeah, we kind of wanted to sort of, like, make it all feel a bit more bendy And, I suppose, live in some ways, you know And, yeah, I think the main thing

1:16:50I mean, we could get into, like, you know This song and all of its controversies if we want to, I suppose But I think the funny thing about this song is Like, I think people I mean, you guys can speak to this if you want to But I think people sort of sometimes really, like, interpret us as, like, jokers or something And that we're just sort of, like, out here being really ironic all the time And, like, trolling the world I've never been called that But I would, you know, but we're actually, you know

1:17:21I'm very sincere Yeah, right, right We're actually not, though And I think, especially on this song It was truly so us really being quite pure And having so much fun And I think we all have such a love for what we do And the music that we make And I think sometimes, perhaps, like, our vision Of what we think is brilliant and really exciting Maybe for some reason To other people comes across like we're taking the piss

1:17:53And maybe that's just because And especially more in the past Maybe they're not as sort of ready to accept, like, a new approach On something that is actually quite, like, traditional And I think, I don't know We've always sort of I hate that I'm speaking for you Because I know you guys have, like, very specific thoughts on all of this And I'm generalising massively But, yeah, I don't know I think, like, with this song It was really pure And I think that's the main point I'm trying to say Yeah, yeah I think that was very much by design as well I mean, Charlie already mentioned, like, the kind of vocal stuff

1:18:25And, like, playing with parts being Me and my friends Like, more or less tuned We take pictures and make stuff together Like, that's pretty raw But moving in and out of tune And then the other bit's really We go out Like, that's clearly more of a classic Sort of really high, hard water tune sound But then again, I mean, I think the thing that we all really wanted to preserve on this And even when it's Because we actually worked on the mixes as well for this But I think what we were really wanting to preserve on it Is actually it not feeling too slick Like, it's funny

1:18:55There were things that we did that made it feel more slick Or sort of more polished and more like a song But it suddenly wasn't the joy of it You know, the joy of it was finding it And the moment and the immediacy of it And the kind of, almost, I want to say, the demo-y quality of it I love demos in general Yeah, that's the thing I think we all really love demos You know, like, if you find, you know, on classic records You know, like, when you find sort of demo versions of songs I get so attached to that as well And there's something quite pure and immediate about those demos of songs Is there a demo of this? Well, this is kind of it I mean, that's sort of the thing about this whole album, actually

1:19:28It's like, there is like a demo-ness to the whole thing But also, you know, these days are such an ambiguity, right? Between what's a proper studio, the bedroom studio The iPhone being on the move And actually, when we were sort of sitting down to mix it We were trying to actually stay in the same logic files Stay in the same thing So it could have as much of that essence of those original things And even like, you know, actually quite a key reference for us Are all the sort of really wild Lindsay Buckingham tracks on Tusk

1:19:59Where he's going between some of the most expensive recording sessions ever And his own, you know, home studio And trying to create this Recording his bedrooms Yeah, he's like hitting cardboard box And then getting a real drum You know, it's this whole And that sound is really wild panning And a lot of, even in this track, you know, when it kind of drops It really goes from mono to like super stereo And all these things You're like, it's emphasizing as well That funny space I think actually with Tusk was quite prescient But for now, we're all living in it Like even something that's really sick in the studio Is constantly referencing a bedroom studio or something else

1:20:31Or what's artificially trying to sound slicker than it is You know, there's some people sitting in very elaborate bedroom studios Doing the most like polished, like EQ'd, like side-chained Everything like, you know, like full frequency kind of sound And that's actually, I think you're more likely to encounter that Outside of like LA now, you know So there's a lot of those kind of things always going on in the background That we're thinking about while we're having fun making tracks But yeah, I mean, look, this is, I mean, to give a sense of the So this is actually Alex drumming here So it's like really sort of A little bit chopped up

1:21:02But like kind of chopped up I mean, yeah, it's edited, so I have to say But I mean, sorry Alex So what would you do? I mean, would you just kind of get on the kit And you would just record it And then you'd just start playing about with it? Exactly So that's what we do Alex would, on this one Alex got into the booth and started tracking it And he was just sort of doing weird fills and stuff like that We took turns so he never got good enough You know what I mean? Like if I had done 10 takes, you know Yeah, yeah, yeah But yeah, that was it And I think we just had this And we just chopped out a little bit of it And then reused that And then we stacked that with the Vimona as well

1:21:33That was sort of a thing that we kept on coming back to This was, I think the first one Where we paired live drums with a Vimona drum machine So together it's that So this is like a more sort of classic electronic Still very like, you know But then all the character comes from here really And then I think, you know That was, this is interesting We could sort of We could have sort of compressed it And made it feel, you know Saturated and all that stuff And we kind of did play around with that a bit And then it just It really did sort of take away from From the joy of it The roughness of it That I feel is reflected in the lyric And how quickly it came together

1:22:04And I think the joy of the song I think that was something that was really key to preserve And then Yeah, with this This initial guitar sound is really cool as well I also think the thing that's really nice It's like, I think What I love about this song as well It's like, it's not actually a rock song Which is quite fun Or is it, I don't know I don't even know anymore Like that's all Me neither, TBH All those kind of questions are confusing Yeah, yeah Could I ask Led Zeppin, right? Not super interesting But yeah, exactly I mean You should get it on Yeah, you should get it I mean What's fun

1:22:34I mean Okay, so Finn and I both Using Logic for better or worse Like pretty similar version of it And so, you know Kind of taking turns Sometimes working parallel I think I was plugged into the desk Or into you into the desk So this was I was sort of using my session As like an instrument And we were like recording things Into yours for this one Like I said It's mixed up a lot And I think I just had one Small chop of a really old guitar I think I recorded Just this, I think Sounds like rock music to me It does Just like that Authentic You know Wow Wow So I threw that into this

1:23:06Well, I've been using a lot of faceplant Because actually there's not a lot of It can be a synth It can be a sampler It can be whatever So I threw it into this And you can see it's sort of Got a horrible LFO on it So it's constantly bouncing around And I even send an ARP through it as well So that one sort of power chord Becomes This kind of strange Kind of bouncy thing And then actually also What's weird is This is cool, yeah On top of that I've got the thing on here The hat, right? Yeah, because that is then also

1:23:37That exact kind of Chopped up resampled guitar Also becomes a kind of Persistent hi-hat layer That's made out of the guitar Yeah, and that's Yeah, it's running through Shaper box And the noise is actually a crash So it becomes this This strange thing When they're, you know So they're kind of Strangely in sync And that's kind of Don't know The fact that that's The heart of this song Yeah Like you said Sort of disqualifies it From being a proper rock But it's taken from a guitar

1:24:08Yeah, well then Yeah, exactly I guess And then we've got this Which is just Playing through the Boss phaser Yeah, most of the guitars We did that weren't Doing something like this We would We'd have these pedals And really commit To the DI pedal sound We'd be like Tweaking the pedals a lot Like getting Kind of using A sort of pedal combo Once And then changing it For another song So it's got this Kind of dry DI thing But always a slightly Different kind of Distortion, right And then this one's With the This sort of Heavier I think it's This is Yeah, it's

1:24:39The Englishman pedal By Love Pedal I think Love Pedal Englishman And it's It's got a kind of Ampy, slightly broken You can even flick a switch To make it sound Slightly Like it's running Out of power So it's got It retains this Feeling that It's somebody Playing guitar For the Maybe the third time And they're trying Out the pedals A day No, but in a great way It has that innocence To it That is kind of like Oh, these riffs Sound cool You know And this is rock music Isn't it This is cool Yeah It's like Memento Or Men in Black Really

1:25:10It's like the first time Again, you know And were you in the room At this point, Charlie Or you So you're watching Yeah, yeah Definitely Yeah, yeah This all like It's all unfolding Yeah, it's all unfolding It's all being filmed It's actually quite sweet That we really do have Like this whole From like zero To complete song Like documented On film Yes, which is really nice Amazing Yeah But yeah, I think Again, the key thing to this Was just this funny I think we had this idea Of just Wanting the song

1:25:40To be really heavy But like for a really Short amount of time You know Like, oh, it gets super heavy For a second And then like Oh, it's back to the song You know And so As Alex was saying This sort of All this is Basically all the time Very mono All in the All in the middle No panning And then Just A left and right Suddenly it gets super wide On these two guitars Going through the Englishman And then This is how we did the chop I just pulled it in We just used The really basic

1:26:11Sort of Logic Loop Function here Yeah And once again Kind of Out of time-ish Is that one off the grid It's just sort of On the grid But a weird slide It's like a weird point In the So you're feeling Not perfect You're feeling that looping And clicking Yeah, I think initially It was just Rock music You know, it just did that Now we're making rock music And then, you know Obviously we took that And then just Rock Yeah, leaving in the click Rock music And then that's the sort of

1:26:41Vocal production technique Then we could use And throw in other little bits Like we were saying We used at the end of I think there's a few other moments Where we use it as well We're doing a lot of That strange looping And also time stretching Like not so great logic Time stretching happens On certain words And then also on guitars as well I mean, that's it Like the guitars on Wink Wink for example And on Card Decline There's a lot of those Strange loops Where they're slightly out of sync Which is using that function So it's That was something We were kept on using We were doing it You know I mean, I love vocal chops anyway But it was really part of the session

1:27:12You know, it was like It really feels like part of the performance Of something being chopped You know It wasn't I've done other vocal chops Where you know It becomes a whole Like really meta thing And you're cranking And this one really just feels Like an extension Of the kind of hook And performance that you were doing And then we did it in the room Like oh yeah, yeah Great, great This is going to work You know And as you were doing that Are you saying Charlie Right, yes, that's it Exactly You know, we're sort of You know, that's it So Alex is playing around with that You go, oh, that's cool And then I'm like Are these chords cool Are you hearing anything on this And you're like Yeah, that's nice Or not Or It's very much like

1:27:43We're all working out together Piecing it together Yeah, and I think with this song And the sort of more Kind of like guitar heavy Sort of, I guess More overtly guitar heavy songs There's always this conversation Of like Okay, we want it to We're not really thinking about Like rock v not rock But there is this thing about Like not rocking out Like too much But You know It's like That was sort of Like a personal role That like

1:28:14It was important To me And I think kind of You guys kind of Got on board with that A little bit Like I don't want to throw you Under the bus For the rock fans Out there But you know I don't know There was just like A thing of like It couldn't rock out too much Which is maybe perhaps Why like Playboy Bunny A B-side That we had That was like Almost on the record For like It was like Going on and going off And I think It went off For a few reasons But like One of the reasons Was maybe it was just like Rocking a bit hard

1:28:44I think it's that thing I mean we were talking about Yeah exactly You know what I mean I know exactly what you mean I think we were talking about that As well It's like not trying to take on This like Fake tough Rock persona Macho thing Like oh now I'm doing rock Like now I'm part of the rock scene Yeah nightmare Like what a nightmare Yeah right I was saying about it But I feel like I was never worried That was going to happen At what point are we going to like You never know You never know With you on drums Alex Anything can happen You were going pretty hard there Like No but there was There was always just But that's what I'm saying Like sometimes accidentally

1:29:15Things might cross over Into this slightly more Like macho Space I mean obviously Look at us But like We were quick to rein it back And like another example Actually I think You might disagree on this But the original chords Of the ending Of Card Declined On Thinking About You On Thinking About You Like the I was having Some problems With the original chords For that song And I couldn't quite Figure out why And then I think Eventually I was just like Maybe it's just a little bit too

1:29:46Rock Sort of Like rocky Traditionally rocky Like it's kind of like A bit more of a classic Progression in a way That doesn't speak to me Like I'm not saying That's wrong Or whatever But just to me And what I was trying to do So we changed them And then it kind of became Right feeling For this project Absolutely I feel like genre wise I've never gone full anything No Full pop Full rock Full dubstep I mean of course I can't wait for your dubstep That's what I'm saying I've got a couple And they hit these walls And that's what's interesting Yeah of course Of course

1:30:17I mean look I think none of us Really talk about genre too much I think Like obviously It became a conversation You know With the beginning Of this album But it's not something That we kind of Really sat down And were like Okay Like You know But I think You know That's why the moment In rock music Where it does Go harder Is cool Because it is so Short And actually It's kind of within A not Rock song Like that's The thing that is

1:30:48A little jarring And for me At least Like interesting about it Yeah Oh totally Totally I mean you're Kind of acknowledging The power And inspiration And feel That rock can bring us And you know It's great to punch the air To a brilliant riff But also You don't need to go Full ten minutes We love to Solo Or Of a guitar It's just that feeling That say You know You're out And you hear a song And you think Yeah But it isn't necessarily What Charlie XCX

1:31:18Is all about But at the same time It's there in you Because you can enjoy that And you can filter that And bring it into your own Thing that you're doing You know Which I think Is what this is about No But you get to tease people And play with people By using the phrase Rock music And you know All that kind of thing Which is exciting Is there anything else We should hear from the track I'm trying to think I mean yeah There's sort of Nice details in the outro Just sort of I think yeah These sort of Very crunched Backing vocals Sort of become a feature Throughout the song Which is kind of cool I mean that's actually

1:31:51Butch Vig With this strange Steampunk Steampunk plug-in Which slightly Undermines our point Yeah Ignoring that But that's kind of fun Those kind of details Coming in And like that And again It's the altar boy isn't it It's the altar boy And having those Really hard panned Yeah and also Slightly too loud In a nice way You know The sort of Hierarchy Of the mix Is also Playing with A game That's also very That's another thing That Tusk I think Does really well With another album

1:32:21We were talking about Which is just Some stuff Feeling way too loud Other stuff Feeling really Kind of too quiet And buried And the confidence Of that And I think That's very reflective Of the way That we write That we write And work on stuff Yeah It's like Those kind of decisions Can stick In a way That hopefully Keeps it Retains its energy And then again Just this final bit We again Using that altar boy It becomes like I'm really banging my head The lead at the end And really pretty loud You know These BVs And now They're like I'm really banging my head Which used to be just I'm really banging my head

1:32:53You know It's just that I'm really banging my head And then just distorted And just taking that little thing And also We're intentionally Not cleaning it up Too much either Like all the extra artifacts Created by altar boy And that setting And then just like You know We might compress it A little bit for range But we're leaning Into all of that Sort of extra dirt And is it like Digital dirt Or is it like Analog Doesn't really matter Right That's what's fun about it Like it's I think a lot of other Tracks tend to try And bring them all Into like one world You know And this is like

1:33:23Letting the part stick out You know Yeah And then we've got This other just final Guitar part I mean there's really No parts at all But then it's just Me sort of I think Alex is sort of Riding this Cool reverb unit Oh yeah It's Chase Bliss Like a CXM reverb pedal We have these huge Kind of faders on it You know So even that Is kind of unstable Even as a kind of Reverb It's like And I'm sort of like Doing a very sort of Harmonic pick Sort of on it Horrible But yeah It sort of has that sound Where you kind of Again you might

1:33:54Like you get a sort of Messy note Where some of them Are clean And then other ones Have this small Harmonic that kind of Kicks in when I Don't quite hit the String right And just kind of Preserving all those Kind of details And the fun thing is You know Because like I said We're just recording it Pedals of DI We've done that Decision in the room Like with Charlie And that's just locked Now That region We're not We're not going back And re-performing Now We're not going back And like Oh let's do a reverb Shoot out of all of that It just becomes The like fingerprint Of that exact part of the song You know Totally And then just the details

1:34:25Of the synth And the second heavy drop Are just like We have this like Again this really This sort of white noise Which sort of Works with the cymbals So well when they come in And like fills in that space And then with that lower one Just to give it It's like one mini Moog And one MS-20 Exactly yeah So then just all together I think there is actually A bass as well That we recorded Just a really simple bass Very pure Not particularly exciting

1:34:57But yeah And then so all of it together We've got the tuner plug-in On as well So we did We did do some tuning So yeah

1:35:30That's that That is rock music to me It's rock music Yeah Sounds like rock music

Essential gear and advice

1:35:34We're going to have to let you go But we do have a couple of questions That we ask everybody Who comes on Tape Notes And the first of them Is about a specific piece of kit Whether there is one Particular to this record That you couldn't have made The record without Yeah Yeah I think so It's really the stuff We had in the room It's just all the things It was a very limited palette really So I'd say like You know Yeah The Moog probably Yeah the mini Moog The Verona The drum kit 606 stuff PPG Wave 606 PPG Wave Guitars Yeah

1:36:04Rap pedal Super That kind of stuff You know it was really It was once Once we'd got into a flow Of that first week We did in Paris We returned Kind of for another week You know A couple of months later We didn't want to add Any new elements We were like Okay we're just gonna We're gonna work with this And find different ways Of getting new textures But with once again This is quite extreme limitations So Yeah definitely That's Yeah definitely And our advice question Which we ask everyone Who comes on the show But Is there anything Since we last spoke

1:36:34Since the brat era That you've learned That you would Pass on to other people You know Something That you've Picked up along the way Because this is my first time Yeah You already answered Yeah Advice is a horrible thing You want any general advice It's very hard I mean it's hard to I mean I have no meaningful advice The only thing is I think it's just Again it's just I mean I've been making Music with Alex For now almost sort of 18 years or something When did you stay At what age We met We met some bands

1:37:04At school Bands They had a band Multiple bands It's very cool It's a cool band I really like your band Which one? Well I don't know The one that you sent me Yeah And also been making music With Charlie now For 10 years I know you've been friends With you for sort of 10 years I think the thing That I always just keep On coming back to Is like when you are Working with people You know so well And actually Genuinely enjoy Spending time with And want to talk about Music with And all that stuff Like stick with those people Because actually That's always where I've made my most Interesting music Or like I've had the most fun

1:37:34And yeah I mean obviously You know the experience I had with Brat And stuff was amazing And that was literally Just the same As this really It was just the same joy Of doing it And with people you know And like And are inspired by Yeah What about you Charlie? I mean do you think You've learned something Since we last spoke That you would share With other people? I mean I think I've learned a lot Since we last spoke But I mean Yeah I think honestly It is probably all Summarised in the final track On the record Like I think Like I think That song

1:38:06Really summarises Where I'm at In my mind now When it comes To making Work That you know Sounds cheesy Saying it out loud But like nothing Lasts forever And no one lasts forever So just Kind of do What Finn just said You know It's like I think Sometimes making music Can be hard But for me It's hard Not Actually when I'm in the room

1:38:36Doing it There's more All of these other things At play Like outside of the studio That can make Music I suppose Releasing music Feel hard Like And most of that Is in some way Inherently related to ego You know I think that Is like the tricky part But actually I think for the For the most part When I'm making music Especially with you two Like I do have So much fun Like I It's kind of my Favourite part Of the process And I actually have

1:39:06Like really learnt that Through making Not only this album But making Brat too Like Making the album Is the best bit Like making the album Is the best bit Like making the videos Is the best bit All the other stuff Can be good But it's less good Than actually making it So just enjoy Making the stuff Because it's like That's the peak That's like the pinnacle That's why you do it And all the other things That come along with it Are a bonus And sometimes they can be Really fun But Yeah It's like This is like

1:39:38The best bit Yeah Fantastic Well Long may you all Keep making this stuff Yeah It's brilliant And it's been great To have you back here For Take Notes

Outro music selection

1:39:47Thank you Again We should choose One song From the album To round things off Like an outro song It could be something That's out there already SS26 Or maybe another selection What do you want to go for Should we do something That's been released Because otherwise We'd give it like Half the album away Before it's come out Well we could play A bit of SS26 then Yeah do that Yeah Because I mean This is interesting We'll play all the others Oh wait When does this come out Well this will be out Just before the album Comes out I mean yeah SS26 or camera You pick

1:40:17You pick Surprise me I've got to play Camera energy Let's switch to camera They're saying yes Camera Management saying Play camera Okay Excellent Thanks again And this is Camera then By Charlie XCX From Music Fashion Film Thank you for listening And in particular Thanks to all of you Who have signed up To support us on Patreon

1:40:48I'm just one part of the team That brings you take notes And it relies on your support Access to Patreon includes The full length videos Of new episodes where possible Ad free episodes And detailed gear lists Among many other things If you'd like to join Head to the link On our socials Or website For pictures Highlight clips And behind the scenes content Head to our Instagram Or YouTube channel And on Discord You can join The growing Take Notes community Once again Thank you for listening Until next time Goodbye I'll see you next time I'll see you next time

1:41:18I'll see you next time I'll see you next time I'll see you next time I'll see you next time I'll see you next time I'll see you next time I'll see you next time I'll see you next time I'll see you next time I'll see you next time I'll see you next time I'll see you next time I'll see you next time I'll see you next time I'll see you next time I'll see you next time And the camera's on