TN:190 The Beatles (Giles Martin)

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1:00Hello, I'm John Kennedy, and joining me for this episode of Tape Notes is Giles Martin to talk about his work bringing the Beatles' Rubber Soul new special edition to the world. We were very excited about this. One of the big inspirations behind Tape Notes was the Beatles anthology TV series. And seeing that incredible footage of the band working with Giles' father, George Martin, and getting an insight into how those records came together was always amazing and mind-blowing.

1:32So to be sitting in Abbey Road with Giles, digging into the original four-track recordings, talking us through them track by track, and hearing how he approached remixing them for today felt like a real full-circle moment. And it was also a real thrill just to be in Abbey Road. I'd never been to Abbey Road, and I'd always wanted to go with a purpose. And the purpose in this instance was to talk to Giles and get into his inner sanctum and be shown all this stuff. It really was amazing. And as you'll hear, there's lots to get into. If you'd like to see Giles navigate through his

2:03Pro Tools sessions, complete with the original recordings and updated version, the full video podcast is available to watch on the Tape Notes Patreon page at patreon.com forward slash Tape Notes. I think it's well worth a watch. Honestly, it's behind the scenes gold. Thank you as well to our partners at Tape It for supporting the podcast. For those of you who don't know, Tape It is the iPhone voice notes recording app crafted specifically for musicians, with fantastic features including layering new recordings, creating markers at specific points, shared mixtapes, and loads of

2:36other things. To try it for yourself and to get a special offer on the Pro version, head to tape.it forward slash Tape Notes. But now, without further ado, let's get started.

2:50This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files. And it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans.

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Introducing Giles Martin

3:53Giles Martin is a British composer, producer, and arranger. The son of Sir George Martin, the producer behind 12 of the 13 albums from the Beatles. As a teenager, Giles began to work as an assistant for his father, becoming his ears as his hearing began to decline in the mid-70s. As well as taking on numerous other projects across the music world, Giles has remained closely involved with the Beatles catalogue, serving as producer on the 50th anniversary remix and deluxe editions of albums including Revolver, Sgt. Pepper's, The Beatles, Abbey Road, and Let It Be, among others.

4:25He has won two Grammys and an Academy Award for his composition and production work, as well as an Emmy Award for the acclaimed 2022 Apple TV series, The Beatles' Get Back. Giles' most recent project is a new special edition of The Beatles' 1965 album, Rubber Soul, a record widely regarded as a defining moment in both pop music history and The Beatles' story. Newly mixed by Giles and engineer Sam O'Kell, the special edition features new stereo and Dolby Atmos mixes alongside previously unreleased session recordings and home demos, opening

4:57the studio doors on The Beatles' creative process during the making of this seminal album. Today, I joined Giles at his studio in Abbey Road, and what better way to start our conversation than by hearing something from the Rubber Soul new special edition.

Listening to Day Tripper

5:11This is Day Tripper.

5:41It is the Beatles with Day Tripper, which is now part of Rubber Soul Deluxe, and I'm very pleased to say that we have come to the studio, Abbey Road Studio, where that song was recorded, to talk to Giles Martin, who is the man behind the new Rubber Soul Deluxe.

The Technology of Demixing

6:06Hello, Giles. Hello, John. Nice to see you. It's great to see you too. It's so exciting trying to work out where to begin with this project, which you, in effect, have been working on for kind of 10 years, really, this whole new demixing technology being applied to various different Beatle eras. Well, I mean, the demixing technologies since we did Get Back, which was our lockdown project with Peter Jackson. And to give you some background on demixing, what that is, is that Peter had done some research into police tapes and audio tapes and surveillance process of trying to find

6:41gangsters speaking into microphones that were hidden by other people's speech to clarify the dialogue and Get Back, because a lot of Get Back is on Nagra tapes that have other people speaking on the background noise. And his dialogue editor was working on that. And while they were doing that, because I was mixing bits of the film and music for the film, I said, well, why don't we apply it to music and do that? And we were looking, I tried to do this with a Ron Howard project called Eight Days a Week with someone based at Abbey Road. And we did it for screams, removing screams from live music.

7:12But we sort of perfected it during Get Back, removing drums from guitars and bass. And the first album we used demixing on was actually Revolver. Right. I had previously mixed Sgt. Pepper's and The White Album and Abbey Road before that. And actually let it be, indeed. But that was the first time we used it. So the 10-year thing, the 10-year cycle with Sgt. Pepper's had no demixing on it at all. Right. So it's more recent than that. Yeah, yeah. Correct. Correct.

7:43I mean, for Sgt. Pepper's, we did what we did for Sgt. Pepper's. And I was, you know, to be honest, I was dead against doing any of these mixes, to be honest with you. And it was the Beatles that had asked me to get involved. I mean, I had obviously done Beatles, I did a Love Show and a few film stuff. And my father had just died, actually. He just died three months before. And I came in to the studios. And I realized that Sgt. Pepper's was interesting because it was a mono album that the stereo wasn't paid attention to.

8:16And a lot of it was four-track bounces. And by just manually syncing the four tracks, we could then go back to the previous versions of the tape. So we're demixing by using pre-bounce four tracks, if that makes sense. So Little Happened with My Friends, for example, is actually guitar, bass, and drums, and piano on four tracks. It's then summed down to one track of the next four tracks. So we can take something like that, split it out, and then mix it. And that was the sort of why we mixed Sgt. Pepper again. And that, actually, immediately, I think we did three songs, but they were, and the Beatles liked them, or Paul and Ringo liked them, and Danny Harris, Olivia, and Sean and Yoko.

8:52And so we ended up doing the rest of the album. That was the beginning of this cycle of doing, you know, special edition, deeper, deeper dives. And actually, finally, what's happened is it's the fans that kind of, you know, the question I get asked, you know, in the Bakers is, when's Rubber Soul going to come out? It's that thing, you kind of go, I always ask the question, why are we doing this? You know, I'm the first person to ask these questions. Actually, am I the right person to be doing this? And why are we doing this? The two questions I ask. Yeah, yeah. But the answer is because people want to hear what it sounded like.

9:26Yeah, they do. And there is a thing. There is a, there is a, and I know them. I just, and I knew my dad better than, I think, pretty much anyone. And obviously, I'm very close to Paul and Ringo, and love them, and the rest of the gang. And they sort of love the, what we can do now. And it's actually, if you think about recording, recording is a, is a timestamp of, it's time travel. It's going back into that day that this was recorded. I mean, take Rubber Soul, which we're talking about today. The band are between the ages of 24 and 26.

9:58And they're still at age now on this, on this record. And what technology does, it actually makes, it ages things. And what we do with this is we bring you close to the record, closer to them being in the room. And that's what they love about it. And that's always the intent. The intent isn't to actually gloss things up. It's actually to remove layers to get you closer to that recording. Yeah. And, and we're very lucky today because you're going to help explain how you did this. I'm going to try to help explain, yeah. If I can remember anything. I'm sure you will.

10:28The first song we're going to look at is Drive My Car. So maybe we should have a quick blast of the master, of the new master. That would be great.

Dissecting Drive My Car

10:39Asked a girl what she wanted to be She said, baby, can't you see I want to be famous, a star on the screen But you can do something in between Baby, you can drive my car Yes, I'm going to be a star Baby, you can drive my car And baby, I love you I told her girl that my prospects were good

11:13So that is Drive My Car by The Beatles from Rubber Soul Deluxe How are you describing these mixes? You know, what version do you call that? Is that the stereo 2026 mix? I think it's quite often it's other people's job to I mean, I remember, I think I did a Stones project And they, and if you look on Spotify, it says, you know, Angie, Giles Martin mix I think that's just terrible I hate producers having their names on stuff It's like, no, that is, you know, it's like It's like, no, it's not a mix, it's just Angie

11:44And hopefully you enjoy the sound of it So I don't know It gets complicated because there's so many layers and versions of tracks You know, that I get confused I guess they'll call it the 2026 mix I guess that's what they'll call it If you, those of you who want to hear it Yeah, yeah So what did you, what did you want to do with it? I mean, obviously it's the start of the album Was this the first track you would look at? What was the approach? Well, this actually, to be honest, I mixed before for the Red and Blue compilation And what I don't do is I don't go back and remix a remix

12:16Otherwise it gets even more complicated than it already is And the process that I have generally in this And I knew my dad's opinion of these records These records weren't meant for stereo They were meant for mono You know, because stereo, they didn't monitor stereo You know, when this record came out Very few people, certainly in the UK, had stereo players anyway And it just wasn't a format It wasn't a thing And so therefore, it wasn't until actually Capitol Records and the Americans

12:46Got hold of things that they put instruments on one side and the band on the other And by the nature of the way these recordings are made Because they weren't made with stereo in mind They're mixed in a way where it's hard to make a good stereo of them Even though we're used to the way the stereo sound So, in the case of Drive My Car It's a four-track Fairly basic four-track And so on track one You have That's Paul on guitar

13:17And that's obviously Ringo drums John playing tambourine And the shadow guitar here at the very beginning Is George playing live the lead guitar part Which is on track two I think on the release record That's all on the left-hand side Because you can't Because if you're making a stereo If you're making a stereo You can't Or you can put the vocals in one side

13:49You've got to decide where you put stuff So when I mix material I'm using this demix process I can put the drums in the middle And the guitar in the middle Off to the side So I'm making a I'm sort of respecting the monos If that makes sense But making a stereo version of the monos And of course It sounds really stupidly logical But if you want more power From something like a drum kit It coming out of two speakers As opposed to one Is a better option Yeah Simple as that Yeah So that's what I tend to do I tend to My approach is always to try If I can Put vocals and drums in the centre And then put instruments either side

14:20In a very basic way Another reason why that is Is because So much music Is listened to on headphones nowadays You know And if you have Something just one side It can be distracting You know And I don't like the idea Of my kids Or a younger generation Thinking that a record sounds old You know I don't want to dismiss it Because it sounds old Because as I said before It's not old They are They're younger than A lot of pop stars are now When they're making Robert's Soul And that's the way I see it I see it as young people Making music

14:51If that makes sense Yeah It does totally But it's interesting with stereo Because it can be a thrill At the same time To hear things With different ears Yeah absolutely And I still think You need separation But I think that I know from the Beatles point That's not what they wanted That's not what they wanted They wanted things flying around Of course And you know And get to things like Revolution No. 9 The White Album And The Walrus And whatever You get that But I think that I think that they They're a rock band And they want it to be In your face Yeah And

15:21It's interesting If you listen to The 2026 mix And it's by no means To me The record we're on before Because obviously It's iconic and great There is a bit more power there Vocally and drums wise Because they're in the centre And people think I've turned the drums up But I haven't It's just They're in the mono Right Yeah That makes sense Yeah That's really interesting That just simply Repositioning something Can make it feel Well it's The sort of Psychoacoustics of mixing Especially if It's really interesting Plus in this demix

15:51When I did Revolver On here There and everywhere There's a With the backing vocals At the end I think Paul's just clicking His fingers And it's on the Backing vocal track And what we did Is suddenly You know It was given back to me And I had Separate finger snaps So where'd you put them And I went I don't remember There'd been finger snaps On here There and everywhere And I go back And listen to the original And I can hear finger snaps Because I've now heard them It's like one of those things She's like You notice a spot On someone's face You can't stop looking

16:22At the spot It's one of those things It's just a weird way Of looking at stuff And so then you go And now Are they too loud Are they too quiet I don't know Because I've never heard them before And there's a whole thing Where you And people go People will say to me After the mix I never noticed That was there before And they go Well I haven't I haven't put it there And I haven't really met So I go back And listen to the record And they'll go Oh yeah It's there before It's just because If you reposition something Sometimes And you have to be careful Sometimes When you If you put something To the If you pass something Far left or far right It does become louder You know It does You notice it more And all this stuff

16:52Especially if you're doing Special audio stuff Yeah Yeah I always feel When listening to the The demixing versions That it feels as if You're in the room more Than you might have been In the past Yeah And you have to be careful I am really Really careful That there's no Sort of ghosting going on And weird stuff Going phasing And all that sort of thing And there has been times Where just The sensibility of it Doesn't make sense So I remember doing Yellow Submarine on Revolver And Yellow Submarine Has the drums And the acoustic guitar

17:23And drums together And I separated them Because again I wanted the drums And the same And the acoustic guitar Off the left I think it was at the time And they just didn't It sounded like There was something missing Like I felt like I left my keys behind It was that It was like These need to be together Even though Individually they sound Like an acoustic guitar Or a drum kit There's something There's a transient There's something going on So I'm quite careful That it doesn't There's no point Doing something For the sake of it It's like when Early there's a stereo Where people just like Go great This is crazy We can fly things

17:53Around your head It is about the music It's about the song It's about How that song That's the key It's not about technology It's about the music Yeah So with Drive My Car What did you want to do As we have a listen To more of the mix Just like go through For people What the ingredients are That would be great Yeah So actually I'll play the very first take Drive My Car Take One So this is George On one track That's George there And then As I say

18:24On track two A little bit of practice One Two Three Four So Ringo Trans Paul playing guitar And John playing tambourine And George Just standing there Having played The guitar intro

18:55Yeah Just waiting to return Waiting to return Yeah And this actually breaks down I mean they're still A pretty tight band Yeah Amazing And it's great for people To know that this is Everything's on one track Yeah There we are Two And that's them breaking down So that is essentially track one And what they did Is then they recorded their vocals To that track

19:26So the next track Was this Asked a girl What she wanted to be And she said Baby Can't you see I wanna be famous A star of the screen But you can do something In between So two part and three part Baby you can drive my car Yes Yes I'm gonna be a star So they're singing to this And baby I love you

19:56Yeah And there's a tiny bit of bleed Isn't there From their Yeah Headphones And then They went back to the track That George recorded His guitar lead on Where he re-recorded His guitar lead And then We have Cowbell on this track as well Which I think is Ringo Probably Ringo playing Cowbell So they're essentially

20:29Being done at the same time Right And then you have John playing piano A little bit of fluff In the piano So what you have On the three tracks Is this Do something In between Baby you can drive my car

21:01Yes I'm gonna be a star Baby you can drive my car And what's interesting about this For people listening Is this is And I get credit for stuff I shouldn't get credit for Because this is just The raw tapes Yeah It's not processing This is just what they sound like And it's that thing about So much time is spent mixing now They mixed as they went along They've made decisions early And they knew what They knew what You know My dad and Jeff Emmerich And more importantly The Beatles

21:32Knew what they wanted to sound like And they just filled in the They painted the gaps As it were And so what's interesting About driving my car And going back to Thoughts about How they can compete With the Americans As far as Making their records loud And getting that Motown bass sound They put the bass sound Afterwards So they record everything And it's so rare I mean How many people put You know Do the bass track last And so On track four You have bass guitar And backing vocals Right And so actually

22:03Paul's playing bass And singing backing vocals At the end You know With George and John Right So the backing vocals Done at the same time As they're laying down The bass Yeah See there's a little spill But this was all

22:36To make sure That the bass Could be as loud as possible So suddenly you have a bass On a separate track Yeah And then you can decide How You know So we go to the end You can hear Paul has to come in With the singing And the refrain And maybe I love you Beep beep Beep beep Beep beep Yeah Beep beep Beep beep Yeah

23:07Beep beep Beep beep Yeah Beep beep Beep beep Yeah Beep beep Beep beep Yeah Wow And so And that last Guitar part was George Yeah That's George George on track two Yeah Correct So that'll be here And that had already Been laid down Yeah So then When they were doing Track four They had all of that To play along to Because don't forget

23:40They'd already laid down These vocals Track one Guitar Drums Tambourine Track three But it's really the second Track they recorded Was vocals All through them singing Then they added Piano Lead guitar And cowbell And then they put the bass And double track Backing vocals At the end John's double track Vocals at the end Yeah So then So then what you have If you think about That track split We have Only choice of four things To put out two speakers And so essentially It's a mono It's a mono recording

24:11That's what it is It's meant to come out Of one speaker Because as soon as As soon as you put Something just in one speaker It loses its power So you can put That on one side Basically on the guitar Kind of want vocals In the middle really Or you put You know Your choice is limited And that's why We go through The sort of Demix process If you like Of separating Drums, guitar So if I switch to For here So suddenly we have Separated from here

24:43I just solo this as well Sounds a bit like The Flintstones Now it's not perfect But that's a Separated drum kit From bass So Wow And so Have you been able To apply that To every single Aspect And so you've Ended up with How many elements Are in that song So it's like You've got Ten tracks I missed a drum track There

25:13So out of those Three I can have Separate guitar Yeah That's ruined That's ruined Separate piano from there So you can see Now we're beginning To have a

25:44This is some Room We tend to What we do here Is we tend to Re-record things Back through Abbey Road Studios To create a room sound If you like To make it Make it real Right And so already If I just Play this We have a stereo image And when

26:16When you use Demixing How How does it work So Is this a magic button That then suddenly Separates everything Well no I mean They're on magic buttons And actually The technology Is moving really rapidly You know Logic now Do a demixing You can demix Through logic And all that sort of stuff What we tend to do Is actually very bespoke So we have our own Programs that we run That are very kind of like Essentially It's like You imagine It's like Facial recognition For sound So The machine Has to know As much as it does On what that sound

26:46It's looking for Is in order to Get the best version Of that From the track And We tend to Because we're working From raw Unmastered Four tracks We tend to always Make sure that Everything phase cancels And by that I mean that If I sum All of the Demix Multi-tracks From my Four track And if I then Phase cancel them I should hear nothing I don't want the process To add anything

27:17Or take away anything From what we have So we're not We're adding digital transients Or any of that You know It's really important For me That I'm mixing What's on tape Still You can then Do whatever By EQing stuff You by nature Change it You know You change the nature But it's important That we start From a raw format Of these The ingredients We have So it's like You know I have a baked cake And I've got The flour eggs Etc And they're all Exactly the same As the ingredients That went in there That's what I try And do with this Especially with Beetle stuff

27:48Which is so important To everyone It's so iconic And people really Care about this stuff Yeah But it seems to me That in some ways You create further Problems for yourself Because you're then Faced with A whole new set Of decisions Because as they Were mixing As they went along To the four tracks That they had At their disposal Suddenly you've Multiplied that And expanded that All out And then suddenly You're faced with A new set of decisions About like Oh where do I place them How do I balance Those different sounds That's kind of My job

28:18It's a weird You know the role Is really strange Because it's a bit Like sort of A split person It's a bit like Gollum from Lord of the Rings Where you've got One person Some evil bloke Going you can do this You're going to be terrible The other person You can't do this You're absolutely You know You can You know We can make it All sound good No you can't You're terrible It's that That's what you have To deal with All the time And so And so yeah That's the My job is to You know Is to make these decisions You know People go Who do you think you are And I go Well I don't really know But that's my job That's what I have to do And you do it out of You know You do it out of love And passion for it

28:49That's why You do it And also have this theory Which is kind of crazy And it's very Actually it's a bit Narcissistic and megalomaniac To be honest with you It's just like Music isn't quite How you remember it sounding Do you know what I mean It's like you know It's like an ex-girlfriend Or a holiday you spent Or whatever it is It's never quite the same As you remember it And I did this thing I did the George Harrison Martin Scorsese film Living in the material world And I was working With Olivia Harrison And the film people Didn't want to touch anything And I was like Okay So I went away for a bit

29:19And then they did a screening And they went Why does Giles Why does the music sound Like this And I went I don't know You fired me A couple of weeks ago And then I met Martin Scorsese In a studio In London And I had an AB And it was The film starts All things must pass And he goes This is all things must pass Why don't we use this I went That's the mix for the film It's not how you remember it Because obviously Which is a genius record But it's very compressed And it's very like Should be on a vinyl record player Coming out of a small turntable Etc You know what I mean And we fill in the blanks

29:49We In our The psychoacoustic nature The way we listen Is that we fill in these blanks And so To a certain extent I suppose I try and fill in the blanks If you like You know To people who've never heard it Yeah And that's what I I suppose I mix these records People who've never heard The Beatles And then I get Followed around by people Who've heard lots of Beatles That's what happens You know What can you do Yeah It's tricky I mean I don't envy you That's what I'm thinking When I see this process Opened up It seems like Actually This is quite daunting

30:20You know This is Oh come on It's fun It's fun Because it's like You know That's the weird You're thinking of the outside Well But I lock myself in this room Yeah With Joe My amazing assistant And me and Sam McKell Work on this And there's a small group for us But we lock ourselves in this room And then we go home And all the rest of it The people outside the heavy road No one knows What I'm doing And it's like It's fine Yeah It's fine But you're thinking about The implications The moral implications Of such things Maybe I should think about it It's funny When I did the love project

30:50Which was so It was born out of desperation Because I thought it'd be a good idea And I told Neil Aspinall I can create a show Based on The Beatles masters And I think I can create A collage of sound And my dad actually said to me I wouldn't do that if I was you And he came And didn't like someone Within you Without you And tomorrow And everyone was mixed up He didn't like And then Paul liked it But people at Abbey Road At the time And I was young I was like some pariah Coming to Abbey Road I was the person That was George Martin's son Coming here and destroying You know This This legacy

31:22And you just go You know what There are worse things That you know And you don't have to People don't have to Listen to this It's like people Don't have to even like it But if they go Drive my car We love the original Drive my car And I go great I'm not stopping you From loving that I'm not It's like if you go back And listen to the original I'm not saying it's better I'm just saying We spend so much time Hearing music And not listening to it Yeah And it's great that Sometimes to slap people In the face going This is really good

31:52Yeah Yeah totally I mean for me You know in preparation For coming to talk to you Giles You know I listened to All four CDs Multiple times To get a sense Of what was going on And I think that's Part of the point Is that When you then hear Say the The new 2026 stereo mix Of Rubber Soul And you hear it Alongside other things You might be streaming Or listening to It sounds as punchy And as impactful As any of those And that's Part of the Yeah it's exactly It's not It's not going to do

32:23It's just I just don't think That I hate the idea It's like you know I show and watch films With my kids Comes on immediately And they go This looks really old So we're not going to watch it Right But you haven't You don't know anything About this film We're about to watch It's amazing Yeah I know But it's Immediately it doesn't look Doesn't And the same thing Happens with sound sometimes Not that I'm really Modernizing the sound I'm not actually Because these records Sound pretty modern To begin with Sometimes you can't Hear the kick drum And sometimes the drums Are a bit cool Whatever it is But they The Beatles were quite

32:54Advanced Or really advanced I think Yeah And their sounds Are still like Wow I mean The guitar sounds Are still Incomparable To a lot of bands You know A lot of bands Try and get those sounds A lot of people Come to Abbey Road To try and use The microphones And the amplifiers And the desks To get the sounds That the Beatles had And not realizing It's a lot of two Of the fingers That are touching The fret ports Not the instruments Themselves Yeah Yeah totally And they still Sound really fresh Yeah I think I think so I think that It's that thing Isn't it It's like someone Changed their hair colour

33:24And you look at them Differently going Wait a second I'm not going to Change the hair colour Of the Beatles But there's something About I've found that Mixing And having done You know Quite a few albums Now Are going to Now Rubber Soul And people go I forgot how much I love Rubber Soul Now I'm not making them Love Rubber Soul They'd probably Had they gone back And listened to Rubber Soul Anyway They'd probably realize How much they love Rubber Soul But this is just Another pathway to that Yeah Yeah totally Is there anything else We should hear from Drive My Car Before we move on

33:55I don't know I don't think so I think I mean like You know What's interesting Is If you like Is Is that If I play What's on B Let me just So that's the original I don't think we're playing

34:32It's going to be the right The right version of the mix But you can hear that there's Just a bit more body to it now Yes Yeah And it suddenly goes It The dynamics change Yeah It's just a question It's a question Of just making it What people don't realize About the Beatles Is they were They become t-shirts And they become Images They become stories They become What they were Were really Really good musicians They were just A really good band And I remember On the George Harrison documentary I remember Eric Clapton Talking about You know

35:02He was in the yard verse I think And they always thought The Beatles were Like teeny bopper And he goes We were just surprised How good they were You know And that's the thing Where you know You hear them play On the studio And you think That's humans making a noise Yeah totally And it's interesting I mean now You know Their music Their cultural icon status Is so kind of present Yeah That You forget You forget You forget That's the essence of it Yeah Yeah And that's what they And people will talk about The history of it And talk about the You know The

35:32The things that were said Afterwards You know It's like You hear about People's Talking about Breakups That breaks up A relationship And they never talk about How What a good time They had with that person And that's what happened With the Beatles When they broke up And without Glossing over I mean the worst time Apparently was The get back era Which we did The documentary of And even that Even with What Seven hours And 45 minutes Of film We were accused Of glossing it over Because where's the

36:03Really bad stuff Where's the And a lot of stuff Was said And there was a lot Of frustrations But essentially I promise you That if I could find Like people shouting At each other I'd have put it out They generally As a band They were incredibly Cohesive And the records Sound like that They had a good time In the studios Yeah totally And that was one Of the exciting things About watching those Get back episodes Was that It felt like you were there You could see that They were having A hell of a lot of fun And that there was Such deep friendships That everybody's

36:34Relaxed with each other And just the way That they would Come up with ideas And develop those ideas On the spot And you could see it Happening in real time Yeah And I think you can hear That on this new Rubber Soul Deluxe You know listening to The outtakes And you get a sense Of that feeling In the studio It's immediate And it's fun And it's Especially this period Of time for them They were so It was like you know I remember talking To my dad When he was He knew he was dying And he was in bed

37:04And I'd be looking After him And I had a question Because I was doing I was working On the second Kingsman film And there was A lot of discussions About whether it was Right or it was wrong And I have a lot of Doubts about the stuff The material I make It's like You do it And then you think You've done it And I have insecurities Around what I do And I said to my dad I said do you ever think You were bad at music dad And he goes That's a strange question To ask me I said well I You know I worry And he goes No I think

37:34He actually said I think you're better than I was Which I'm not And he said No I always thought It was brilliant And the funny thing About that Which isn't true By the way No one's always brilliant But what's great About that Is pure envy About the fact That the Beatles Always just think They were brilliant It sounds In England That's kind of like Oh my god That's terrible Because we don't like that But also I spend most of my time Treading water And occasionally I surf And I hit a wave And occasionally I am

38:05I am good I know that Occasionally I'm good But very occasionally I get Most of the time I'm being hit by waves And being splashed around They spent During this period They spent the most time Surfing They never Put their heads below water They just Churned out this Incredible pot of work With a kind of Vibe And love of life And that's why I think they're so Enduring and so popular Because that's what It makes you feel Because it flows through The instruments The microphones Into the speakers Into your home Into your mind

38:35Whatever But that's what it is And I think That's why it's fun Working on this stuff Yeah Yeah You're so right It's fascinating And we're going to learn So much Which is very exciting Maybe we'll have a quick Blast of Drive My Car Just the end of it Maybe Just to round off This bit of the conversation And maybe I love you Beep beep Beep beep Yeah Beep beep Beep beep Yeah Beep beep Beep beep Yeah

39:05Beep beep Beep beep Yeah So just a little taste To drive my car By the Beatles And the next song We're going to look at Is Norwegian Wood We're going to take a quick break But we'll be back With jars In just a moment Are we done then Imagine Plugins by Soundbetter Is the world's first No-code platform For designing, building And selling

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40:06Utilities Set the settings Exactly the way you want them No AI prompting Audition and hear it Real time in the browser Full hands-on control Then you flip a tab To create the GUI Design the plugin You've got faders Knobbs you can choose from Or you can upload Your own graphics To make it all bespoke Then you hit a button And build it Ready to distribute Copy protected And you can sell it And we don't keep a cut So whatever you sell You keep You pay us a one-time Build fee And that's it It's exciting On so many levels Creatively And potentially financially It could revolutionize plugins

40:37So we're really excited About helping artists And creators earn more That's what SoundBetter Has always been about And I think selling software Might be one of the paths forward So if you've ever wanted To design and sell Your own plugin Now's your chance Head to ImaginePlugins.com Forward slash Tape Notes To try it for yourself And download their Brand new Vocal Effect plugin For free This episode is brought To you by ChatGPT Hey, it's Bill Simmons From the Bill Simmons Podcast Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way

41:08To use ChatGPT For bigger Multi-step projects And when you need More than just answers Give ChatGPT work Access to your apps And files And it can create Real work documents Like spreadsheets Slides And structured reports Get started at ChatGPT.com By selecting Work Mode Available on Plus and Pro plans The next song We're going to look at From the new Rubber Soul Deluxe Is Norwegian Wood So Giles If maybe you could play As Sir Blaster Master That would be great

Exploring Norwegian Wood

41:37Master Blaster I once had a girl Or should I say She once had me She's shown me her room Isn't it good Norwegian

42:08She asked me to stay And she told me To sit anywhere So I looked around And I noticed There wasn't a chair I sat on the rug Biding my time So that is the new Stereo Mix 2026 Of Norwegian Wood From the new Rubber Soul Deluxe So when you Started delving

42:39Into this What did you find Well I mean Talking of that mix Now I'll play you Earlier versions But the first thing That strikes me With that Is the original Had John's play Acoustic guitar And sing at the same time Because there are Dubs of other things That if you want The original mix Has John on one side And one in the middle So we now have Acoustic guitar On one side And actually Listen to that mix Just now Because I don't really Listen to Stuff I've done For a bit It's actually quite nice That there's a vocal

43:09Clarity to that That touches me A little bit Because When you're mixing And you put Instruments in different Spaces I.E. Left or right You know Centre The frequencies Do interfere with each other And essentially It was nice I surprisingly enjoyed that Well that's good It's not too painful That's weird isn't it I know I find things Very painful Yeah so It's interesting with this Because they I mean I always felt Surprised in the Beatles That they Considering their

43:40Humble beginnings Their humble roots And where they're from How they get Interested in world music Is bizarre Especially George I mean George was Came from the poorest Background of all of them But really strong Family background Actually a very Catholic family background And bizarrely became The most spiritual And in a way Anti-Catholic In some ways But he He obviously At this stage Really early on He's really young Got into Indian music In the sitar And this is before He met Ravi But he He met Ravi

44:11Because he wants to learn To become good At his instrument And so we Had different versions Of this This bird has flown Take one I'll just give you The last one Tell me to learn Tell me to learn One two three One two three Which is just Twelve string And by the nature

44:52Of the way The voice is To the background It already has that Even as the twelve string Always had that That sort of slight That drone to it That kind of That kind of slight Feel to it Even though it's Obviously At this stage Ledin was very Influenced by Dylan You can hear That kind of slight Feel of what happens Original So then they pushed it Further with this version One two three One two three Which is George

45:30You know Early early sitar I'm sure somebody Will be able to tell us Just how long He owned the sitar At this point Yeah We'll get letters No matter what happens I say I once had a girl Or should I say She once had me But this is kind of interesting Because this is This early version of the song

46:01Is like We had the We had take one Which is Acoustic But you can sense They want something else In the track And George is becoming Just in Indian music And so then They create this version Which has gone too far It's gone too far The roots of it And so then When you have Not the final version But the next version Of it Which is near The final version Norwegian wood No This bird has flown Take three Take three You're then In a situation Where you have Sort of You're back

46:32To what we know Are we on? Are we on?

46:51George is beginning to play One time The sitar On guitar How common was it That they would have This many takes Of songs At this point Were you surprised That you had So many takes

47:22To Yeah on this track Yes It gets complex With people Because it's not As they didn't They didn't Have different ideas It's just how many Ideas they recorded And where they went Over the tapes Yeah Like Paperback Writer For example Which is obviously A bit later But Paperback Writer Is one and a half takes And that's it It's always a Paperback Writer So you know Take one They stop halfway through And then they play it So but They'd obviously played it Yes Before and tried it out But there's just There's no record of it Yeah And it was kind of Common practice to

47:52Even if you had Recorded it If it fluffed Then you'd just rewind And then Yeah and The weirdest thing About the Beatles Is how many of the tapes Are still there I mean I think We have Moth tracks of everything Apart from She Loves She And Love Me Do One of those And Love Me Do We don't have those Where most bands Don't have their Moth tracks You know that's The Beatles And quite often EMI would wipe over tape anyway For some happenstance The Beatles weren't wiped And as

48:22And of course As they became So popular They became Had liberties To be able to Create And play around with You know Experiments I can't remember Someone will write There's like Over 70 takes With Sexy Sadie With the White Album You know There's a lot of takes Of that track You know of course Then you really get people going Well how come you haven't Released all of them yet That's the But there's a reason why There was just one album That came out Well that's the thing

48:53It's like you know Even when So I get asked to do These projects And there's stuff on YouTube And there's people That write in And there's people I kind of One of my Rules That I have Is like Music is there For listening to And not collecting You know you can collect If you want That's fine It's great Do whatever you like But I think music Is for listening to Same as instruments Guitars Like people having Guitar in a case Just like caging A beautiful bird In a way I think So when I select Tracks Outtakes They're either like

49:23It sounds pretentious But they're like You know I went to Like a realist Painter exhibition They had Early sketches Of drawings And then the final painting And it's a bit like that It's quite nice to hear The early sketch And the idea And also it's quite nice Sometimes Especially when we do The Yisha demos On the White Album You have really Versions that sometimes People prefer You know I think And so I think When you come to these extras Quite often I think they should be Listened to more than once Yeah Not sort of curiosities I think that's That's one of my rules

49:54Yeah Yeah Well and it is really Interesting hearing The evolution of this Particular song Which we're allowed to Now Because you've been able To share these And you can hear The immediacy of what's done And also The other thing That is important With something like Rubber Soul There's no click track There's no bar markers There's no It's just It's human It is how you feel At the time of the day And the And there's an honesty to it Do you know what I mean It's like you know I always found it amazing When I first I guess the first

50:24The first time I came to Abbey Road And the first time I worked on Beatles stuff I think it was Anthology 2 With my dad When I came in To help him out on that And he was losing his hearing And I came in I was like 19 I think or 20 And I was amazed At how good the record sounded Like you know That I'm playing you demos here Or versions Of the original Which sound good anyway And what's the secret What's the magic button What plugins are you What process are you using The fact is They're really good Yeah You know I worked at a

50:55I did a concert once And Stevie Woon would send me A demo Of actually giving me some loving Which she recorded on At home And it's like Wow you get people And they could sing Into a telephone And they sound like a record Do you know what I mean That's it And the irony of actually Now being old And working You know The truth is Is that I tend to make good Standard records So I work with really good people And if I were really bad people They'd probably sound really bad And people give you Lots of credit for stuff It's interesting

51:25It's like That's the truth of it So Yeah So with the outtakes And that part of the Deluxe rubber sole Do you demix those as well No No I tend to With all the outtake stuff I tend to not even mix them really I tend to think I think it's quite good to hear What's raw For raw tape And be honest about what's there I mean sometimes We might do some EQing And also if you want to bring something out Like for instance We'll play around If there's speech in the background And we want to hear it

51:56We'll probably denoise it You know just because So we can turn up And it's going to go You know So we can try and clean that up Yeah Because people want to hear What Paul's saying Or what John's saying Or George and Ringo To each other Ringo's the hardest one Because you know He hasn't got a vocal mic Right Yeah Yeah But yeah that's all we do really I don't tend to It's funny I remember Going back to work on Anthology I remember coming in here And listening to Day in the Life And it was like It was really odd I was in a room like this Which is a You know A small mix room With no glass

52:26But I'm looking And see where's John Lennon Because it sounds so clear It's like so weird It's like It's like he's there And that's kind of What I want to go for It's like The more you realise That it's someone doing it The more admiration And the more connection You have with it Opposed to It's a plug-in doing it Or whatever I think that's the key I mean of course I do do stuff But generally I'm doing a mix Yeah Yeah Well Anthology Is a key inspiration Behind Tape Notes No I know that I heard that Without Anthology Tape Notes

52:56It's all their fault Yeah it is all your fault Well I didn't do it I was too young In that 40 days But you were there Yeah I was there Yeah This isn't my fault So let's go back So let's go back To Norwegian Wood I mean what else Can we hear So we've heard A few different Outtakes of versions So I can listen I'll give you the tracks Bits of what's on the record To begin with Yeah that would be great So track three Which we'll call track three But it's actually Really the main track Is John playing acoustic guitar and singing I once had a girl

53:40Or should I say She once had me She's shown me her room Isn't it good Norwegian Wood She asked me to stay And she told me To sit anywhere And there's Paul Going to the same track As well But where Paul is Is Paul's in the same room But he's playing bass With George On 12 string guitar On another track

54:11On another track Yeah Right So even though he's on this track His vocals go into The vocal track Right The vocal guitar So you can hear John In the background Yeah She asked me to stay And she told me To sit anywhere So I looked around And I noticed

54:42There wasn't a chair On track two We have We have George's sitter And a classic Beatles way They're now sort of being Economical with it

55:13And working out Where it should be And where it shouldn't be That's what they The thing about the Beatles Is that They were very good At parts It's so tempting When you're recording To Well like the sound of that And put on everything But they were It takes an almost confidence Actually To do this To know when to play You know To know when to sit And be quiet Yeah And then

55:44To add more Indian Flavour On the track four We have Claps Drums And tambora Tambourine Sorry Again Spill Through most of it And is this Ringo Doing these claps Or Yeah This is Ringo Doing drums And claps And let me It's one of Ford

56:17It's always interesting What he played There's some triplets I would say

56:48That's probably Ringo Playing kick drum And tambourine And who's doing The Who's doing The Tapping the legs I don't know Yeah I showed her Well that's There we are That There we are So it's John Yeah Because that's John At the end there Yeah I showed her There you are So that's our four track Of Norwegian Wood Right

57:18So then Well yeah Then it's interesting Mix wise They always start with Okay We start with The first track I played you Which is this So that's John's guitar With a vocal I once had a girl Or should I say

57:50She once had me Now because of You know D-mixed English So I can now have The guitar On the right side And the vocal In the middle She asked me to stay And she told me To sit anywhere Where the original Is more like that So I looked around And I noticed There wasn't a chair So the problem Obviously the problem With the vocal

58:20And the guitar Being together That they have to be Together So I can now create A stereo image And you get More sense Actually a bit like The first demo We heard And she said It's time for bed You know I'm splitting the bass From the guitars So I can now have The acoustic Of the bass It's slightly left Because I don't want To separate too much

58:51From the guitar But the 12th string That George is playing With him Is now far right Which means That on the stereo Spread I can have John's acoustic guitar And I can have A nice stereo feel To it And then the vocal Can go in the middle And the sitar

59:24Which doesn't need Separating output With Because it's Kind of shedding Which makes sense I think it's on the original Anyway This is This is kind of George's part Anyway On the Acoustic guitar Then Ringo's drums Are in the middle Or the kicks And the claps And actually What we have done Is we've separated The And that's

59:59I think That could be John hitting his legs Or clapping Yeah It doesn't sound Quite like a clap But But again I can separate those So They are There is a slight Stereo hitting here Just to give a bit more space And it's actually funny To make it more natural In a strange way

1:00:29Doing unnatural things To make things more natural Is my trademark So That's the original And I think it just gives you

1:01:01There's a bit more intimacy Compared to the original Yeah Nice That was quite smooth Wasn't it Yeah It was very smooth I was quite surprised by that Because I have no idea What I'm doing That's quite smooth I could be a DJ You could Yeah I think we

1:01:32We're conscious of the time So I think we should Have a quick break And then One of the other songs We're going to look at Is In My Life Perfect We'll dig out the tapes Yeah Brilliant Okay Let's do that This episode is brought to you by Tape It The iPhone recording app That's been supporting this podcast For over two years In our latest episode with Bonobo He showed us exactly how he's been using it To capture sounds on the road Record voice notes And archive ideas

1:02:02Some of which have ended up on his latest album Distance in Static To celebrate the episode Thomas, the mind behind Tape It Wants to mark the occasion for Tape Notes listeners With 50% off Tape It Pro A discount only available for two weeks At tape.it forward slash Bonobo If you've ever wanted to try it Now's the chance This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects

1:02:35And when you need more than just answers Give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files And it can create real work documents Like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports Get started at ChatGPT.com By selecting work mode Available on Plus and Pro plans

The Making of In My Life

1:02:52The next one we're going to look at From Rubber Soul Deluxe Is In My Life And there's a couple of things here Giles that I'm already aware of That I'd like to explore So one has been highlighted by Bill Brown Who is one of our Patreons on Patreon He's come up with a question About the Baroque inspired piano solo Obviously that's been talked about over the years But there's a special technique That your father employed And he came up with that part And so at some point If we could highlight that The original pitch of that

1:03:24Yeah, we can do that right now if you want Oh, okay So I think what happened in my life Is they recorded it And they left a hole Which they quite often did Left a hole for a solo And actually in the four track They could often leave a hole for a solo And quite often With a bit of those four tracks You'll have all the band on one track Two sets of vocals And then the fourth track Will have Gasar solo and Cowbell Because that was the last thing they did to do Because it was again Think about it They were making a record for a mono They didn't need a thing to be separated They just wanted it to come out of one speaker

1:03:56The band went off And my dad Sort of decided to Have a go at filling in the hole And the first thing he did Which we discovered He actually played organ He wanted to You know Baroque and roll As it were And so he played What kind of organ was it? Do you know? No It was probably It would have been a Hammond Or it would have been a Lowry Would it have been? Anyway It's this organ They'll be We'll get People can write in

Uncovering the Harpsichord Solo

1:04:26I love you more Oh I know So this you discovered When you were going through these This we discovered, yeah Yeah But although it gives you an idea Of course The famous solo we have

1:04:57On this Which sounds like a harp score But of course It's actually a piano That's been Recorded Recorded A half speed And sped up So actually He played it like this It's金

1:05:55and no my dad he'd written that out on scored it and then read his score right and is that what he recorded while they were still at lunch recording then then he what he played them when they came back was this so how would he have sped it up and played it with the other instruments or the other

1:06:26he would record it we recorded it oh so he recorded in the hole record it in the hole yeah that would have been a bit like this right so he'd slowed down the hole of the title tape yeah yeah and recorded record the piano in real speed an octave down yeah to what he wants to be an octave is a is half the speed

1:06:57and then you end up with this the kind of giveaway at the very end where it's like you know you have this rundown which in real time is is this which of course is this and that's when they came back and the rest of the day is history yeah and it sounds like that little organ sketch was was him trying the idea out yeah and then realizing that um he would have

1:07:33written he would have scored it he would have written it down and i know how my dad was he was he would have done it in his brain first and written it down and scored it and then realized that she wanted what he wanted to write with the counterpoint and the counterpoint on the left hand he wouldn't have been able to play and then it was still with a second one i just play it on a piano and also he would have known because of you know what he did previously with comedy records and and the magic piano sparky's magic piano recordings and the electronica stuff he did he'd known that a

1:08:05half speed a twice double speed piano sounds a bit like a harpsichord which again is quite baroque it's one of those sort of things that it's that you know he probably wanted to sound sort of harpsichordy anyway and so record a piano at half the speed and and there you have it yeah yeah and presumably they came back and said yeah that's great and then carried on as normal or would it have been a subject for more debate or what do you think would have i think they'd be quite surprised but no i think they just i think john just loved it yeah yeah i mean it's it's a really good idea it's brilliant i mean do you know what i mean it's a really it's a really good these things i mean this is a really

1:08:39good template with rubber sole because then you obviously have a revolver and and what happened with tomorrow never knows and and obviously on a rigby it's that beginning of that relationship of being open to all sorts of different types of music i mean you have you know if you think about we just had norwich with george playing very early sitar on that and they're going yeah great sitar great then you know let's speed up the piano and then obviously later with reversing tapes and and realizing that that's what they they you know they didn't have much time to rub a soul but

1:09:10they had enough time to start playing around with tapes yeah and that's what then influenced and that's the thing it's like realizing my my dad showing them that you could play something at half speed and speed it up and then probably made them think okay and they all had started buying you know tape machines that stage and if you think about on deep level that's what this is yeah it's such a stepping stone and a catalyst to yeah a whole world of exploration absolutely yeah and within the rest of the song then and in the rest of the recording is what else should we hear well i mean it's it's a fairly sort of it's beautiful i mean i think this is i think this is well this is the

1:09:45thing isn't it it's like you know someone asked me the other day on a film set once what's my favorite beatles song and i think it's probably this one i think it's this one but it's not because it's you know it's this one because of the the lyrics in fact i think i read out lyrics to my dad's funeral you know because it you know for as a song it is so poignant yeah and it's full of love actually that's what it's about um it was recorded just basic guitar one track took guitar bass and drums

1:10:21now i think john was singing live you can hear sort of ghosting of it and there is a vocal chuck and take three but that's a replaced vocal so they wiped with the vocal he sang live and replaced it

1:11:02right so they replaced it with a vocal here which in very beatles era before they'd got content to do adt there are places i remember on two tracks you have two sets of identical vocals that's one track that's the other track with harmonies live as well and some remain all these places had their moments with lovers and friends i still can recall

1:11:38some are dead and some are living it's always quite interesting when you hear these songs where if i put the two tracks you know that we had it's like you know in my life which is different and not as beatles as this it's just double track vocals that's that that's the sound of these records

1:12:14yeah this is the sound of these records and then on on the overdub track we have shallow guitar but it's a little guitar drone but it's really tambourine it sounds like someone's thinking about playing something i'm not really playing waiting to play

1:12:48it's incredible isn't it you've got like a whole track of tape here you've got two guitars bass and drums on one track on one tambourine and someone sitting ready to play the guitar on another track but it's of course the track where the piano is yeah i know i'll often stop and think about them in my life i love you more and in terms of making the new stereo mix

1:13:36what what did you feel would be the best approach well the the original which is beautiful so this is original mix there are places i remember we kind of it's like that that beatles sing we have vocals on one side and everything else on the other side and so

1:14:09and if you think about it this stereo mix is more what the beatles wanted in the mono where they want everything to be more in your face the mono is more in your face you have by nature the things that when you're mixing quite often pop records drums and vocals are the things you've got your drums and vocals pretty much middle

1:14:39there is no one compares with you and these memories the stereo old stereo it collapses quite quickly um which is not what they wanted when they when they made their record they wanted things to be yeah in your face more so so technically doing that um we're back to you know source separation where i can afford to put the drums if we go back to so that is

1:15:22taken from this track here and obviously i'm i'm now eq'ing it a bit of compression on it and it's it's Ringo in a room yeah which means i can then move that away from the guitar it's a spill

1:16:00so you know i don't want to get rid of anything when i'm doing this i mean so it's just trying to get immediacy in depth and

1:16:38it's what's the most important thing about this song the most important thing about this song is actually the vocals it's the message of the song and so that's what you kind of concentrate on that's what you sort of put in the middle and everything else goes around it yeah so that's the that's the answer it's like it's it's also with some of these old records and they're kind of fragile in a way if you tip things one way too much i remember doing all things must pass for a film and and if there's too much kick trouble in it the whole song sound immediately sounds leaden and lumpy it doesn't float anymore

1:17:08you kind of what you know you have to be careful about the way you make things sound because you can make you know that's the thing about mixing actually full stop is that it's so easy to go i've got a great sounding guitar this guitar sounds great or this you know but it's what does it sound like with with something else and i remember as i remember doing beatles i remember doing little help my friends originally was on sergeant peppers and on the original i think the bass is on the right hand side anyway it's the bass is panned and because of

1:17:40i'm trying to be more no one pans bases like no one puts the bass on the left right side i remember thinking okay i'll i'll put the bass in the middle and as soon as i did it ringo didn't sound lonely anymore and there's a loneliness to ringo in that song where he needs a little help from his friends yeah because the way the frequencies of the voice men with in the same place you can change the sound of something by where you put it in a mix so i immediately have to go okay fair cop i've got to put the bass on one side because ringo should sound lonely on that song it's as simple as that yeah so you so you

1:18:11you approach these these mix and these songs in a in in not a you know you kind of you asked me before about you know i've got to make decisions about these things and it's kind of like you sort of have a relationship with it that's what you do you have a relationship with and you and you and you and i may be wrong people can criticize me wrong but you have to have a relationship with it you have to have an empathy to what the message is and what the song and i always say people you know people go i like you know i like the mix singer well don't listen to the mix just listen to the song yeah as soon as i listen to a mix you're lost really

1:18:41i've i've lost and i don't want you to people listen to i don't even like the title of it like a rubber soul 2026 version and go god i love the mix of that so you know i really love this song is what you want people to go yeah yeah you're you're trying to help the shot trying to help the song shine further in 2026 i'm trying to help the song shine further the song shine he's been drinking yeah but one of the things that really strikes me as i've been digging into this is just how simple the ingredients

1:19:12are and yet how conscious of what those ingredients are the band are you know and and and how they play and how aware they are of not over doing anything yeah it's worth the same i always think it's like i love cooking it's a bit like cooking and so it's a bit like if you have really good ingredients which i do have it's kind of you don't need that many things and then you've got to be careful not to screw them up it's that really it's that i'm not in a situation where i'm having to layer lots of stuff

1:19:43and sometimes i do you know adt and put things we re-room things we'll re-amp things through abbey road and but it's only to try and make things more real or to try and get things try and get you closer to it it's not to try and be flash in any way you know that's why i sort of don't really like talking about technique so much because i just don't find that interesting yeah i think the key thing that anyone who's mixing should really do is just listen and listen to their favorite records and try and make them sound like that yeah totally is there anything else we should listen to from in my life in my life

1:20:13no i don't think so i think that's well let's have a quick blast of the mastery of the whole the whole mix together just to round things off maybe near the end maybe near the end after that we've done an episode so we'll do i know i'll never lose affection for people and things that went before i know i'll often stop and think about them in my life i love you more would they have

1:21:02rehearsed that vocal change near the end of that would they you know did they ever perform a whole take with changes that they had never done in the rehearsals i mean obviously people are thinking that he's doing that vocal with the other two with him because they're singing back of vocals with him and i can't imagine he would have done many takes of that you know he would have known what he wanted to do and done it it's as simple as that yeah and i've worked with i've recorded people like by elton for example where it's like

1:21:33you know to get more than one vocal out of him one vocal take is pushing it i've sung it now yeah or paul it's like you know it's like they they're expected to perform and that's what they do it's like you know the famous story about john doing twist and shout don't think that's really loud he sang it sang it once and they tried to get him to it again he couldn't sing anymore that's it right you know so so no i think something like that he'd know what he wants to do because he's sung it and there are there are obviously we have take one on the extras for this he'd have sung it before

1:22:03and they were pretty clear about what they were doing and what they wanted to do it's a very especially at this stage of the beatles it was very much like you know paul used to say or tell us about brian epstein going you know you've got two weeks off from touring and he'd go great he goes but you've got to write and record an album and they go oh okay and that would be this so it was it was done pretty quickly yeah amazing giles thanks so much for letting us come in and have this exploration it's been absolute pleasure it's been such a joy

1:22:34but i have a great question from one of our patreons from dom parry who's clearly got a lot of knowledge and so he says way more knowledge than me i reckon well he's got an interesting point at inquiry because he remembers reading paul's book many years from now where paul was writing how he they were always trying to amuse themselves and get naughty words on the record so a couple of examples would be fish and finger pie on penny lane and crook teaser on day tripper and he goes on

1:23:05to write that he and george change the backing vocals of girl from rubber soul to tit tit tit instead of dit dit dit and dom has never been able to quite hear this properly and wondered if we were going to be digging into these whether you would be able to dig that out and and we'll see if these naughty boys were doing

Finding Hidden Backing Vocals

1:23:26well let's have a look i mean dom from where's he where's dom from i'm not sure where he's from dom parry dom parry from some pervert land so of all the you know here's the good like just honestly dom thank you for your question your question is can we hear the beatles sing tits yes that seems to be of all the of all the things you want to hear on a record it's like i actually like that i think that's a very good question that's a much better question than most of the questions i've ever heard it's like do the beatles

1:23:56sing tits but it's a good illustration of just how playful and how boyish it's a good illustration how lonely dom is i think that's what we're finding out but yeah no let's well i've got i've got a girl up here i've seen to find the backing vocal trail the vocal track at least i mean my guess is that they may have done it would be it wouldn't surprise me was it something you noticed in your it wasn't something i thought about at the time but now now thinking about it so it's one of those things that you know i mixed angie by the

1:24:27rolling stones and if you listen to angie by the rolling stones you can't stop hearing our souls if you listen to angie listen to you know in our souls right and i know it's in our souls yeah but once you hear it yeah and the dom from wherever you were from think about that when you say she's looking good

1:24:57i think that sounds like tits to me especially she i mean interesting about this you've got low tits and high tits yeah who's doing what well i think

1:25:28no well i think you've got well they're both shifting they're both modulating both both paul and george paul and george are doing high tits and low tits at that stage of their career yeah fantastic

Studio Gear and Philosophy

1:25:40um we do have questions that we ask everybody who comes on the podcast that we'd like to ask you too giles okay um one is about tech and this is obviously a broad thing but i mean i guess if we're thinking about this project so if we're thinking about rubber sole deluxe what's the most crucial part of the equipment that you're using that allows you to do what you've been doing on this is it the de-mixing technology is it um yeah okay that's a good question i'm trying to

1:26:10think because i don't really think about technology in that way i think about i think about technology as far as you know in all honesty i am heavily involved in technology and the de-mix technology we've used i use it as a in a way so it's very simple you fill a locksmith in you know and you're you're this sounds pretentious you're getting to the place by the keys on the important thing but but yeah i suppose that the de-mix technology does open up doors for us that enables us

1:26:41to to do things we couldn't we wouldn't be able to do five years ago four years ago for me you know quite often it's it's i mean obviously i use various numbers of plugins quite often you know i really like i have an eq using pool tech equalizers good speakers for me it's fun when i think about it i think about what do i what do i really need yeah i need i have

1:27:11you know i don't get sponsored by them but i'm friends with the guys from atc and i use atc speakers which have nicely enough near from where i'm from right and they're nice people and and and so i so yeah it's it's that that's the technology i use is really basic because i'm using i'm doing basic things and then it's really super advanced because i use de-mixing technology to to try and push things and develop things and so i can unlock things um so there's not really one thing yeah yeah that i sort

1:27:42of you know is the disappointing answer it's one of those i'm always i always i always avoid doing these these podcasts with just you know any sort of mixed techniques because i always just don't think i kind of think i make it up as i go along really and not sure if i'm any good at it so i i tend to sort of i feel very privileged to be in this position um i think that we live in a world now where the technology that people have on their laptops on their daws and on their mix stations or whatever it is goes way

1:28:12beyond what the beatles had obviously with the rubber sole and your only excuse for making something that doesn't sound very good is what you're recording whether it's any good to begin with or your taste you know a lot of technology now does the same kind of thing i would say it's funny i'm sort of shy when it comes talking about this stuff because i've sort of won accolades for doing these things and i kind of feel like a total imposter because

1:28:43people who are proper like mixed people come to me and talk about what do i use what's my techniques actually not some people do it's like i had a dinner with i got two really good associates and friends manny marican and nigel godrich the three of us did the other night we talk about we don't talk about any of this stuff and they've done mixed and made incredible records and it's that thing where we just appreciate what we do without talking about it's it's it's funny so yeah so yeah i think that i think good good speakers are really important to me yeah more than anything

1:29:14else yeah no that's interesting um it another angle is that if you asked your dad or the beatles about equipment what bit of gear do you think they would have enjoyed most on this album do you think there was something that would have unlocked things no i don't think again i don't think they thought that i think i think probably you know i mean obviously fairchild compressors became a thing for them and especially in revolver moving on uh you know microphones were you know 47s 48s uh tape

1:29:46machines were being important especially with tape delays moving forward and adts but that wasn't this stage i think that they thought about things as far as instrumentation more than recording that's been a thing that people talk about post because it's much easier it's much easier to go why do they sound good they sounded good because of this box here and that's not true that's not true you can i know from my experience i know from being given praise for something i haven't done that

1:30:18they sounded good because they sounded really good you know we listened to you know we just listened to a bunch of tits just then which is this and their tuning isn't even great but their attitude is good and the way they sound is good and that's not a box doing that it's just them yeah and now today you you'd listen to this and you go oh how are we how are we going

1:30:51to fix that but of course what they did is they double tracked it there you are and you have that frailty with it and so people go what box did they used to do that they didn't they just sang around a microphone yeah but sometimes you can people start mixing with their eyes too much and they started looking at meters or or actually not even meters now you can get plugins that sort of oh that's that's that's exciting oh that's doing something exciting in the mix like we found one

1:31:22there's one the other day and it's like it sort of creates this star scope it's like oh that must be doing something terrific you know god this is amazing and i kind of think one second it's making things sound a bit brighter and it's it's limiting it's a it's obviously a multi-bank compressor of some sort you suddenly realize that no one's going to be looking at that when i'm when they listen to my mix sadly it's like i said it with them i'd probably put it on but it's that it's that it's that it's so you know without saying actually i don't think it's boring at all i think it's really interesting or it's really fun the fact that we have our

1:31:52tools and there's no magic button you can press to make things sound good that's the truth of it yeah really what makes things sound really good is is to change the what you have to begin with and then just as you mentioned to me before is is the question of taste and placement and and balance and actually just you know some of the best sounding records ever don't sound that good you know they're just like oh that's just you know or just they just have a a feel to them and it's that that that i always

1:32:22am drawn to i think hi-fi can be a very distracting thing yeah yeah we usually ask everybody for some advice you've been giving us brilliant advice oh god all the way through this conversation is there any advice that you've been given attention by other people that you've always borne in mind i mean you've mentioned your dad george martin i mean did he give you advice when you were starting out did he say don't get involved in this business yes you said yeah yeah there's no way you can do this for a living is what he told me

1:32:53yeah i mean i've been very lucky you know i've been a magnificent failure in so many things in my life and you know i've written commercials i've been in a band i've played in bands i've mixed i've mastered i've put on shows i've directed i've done all these things i've i've make speakers for i do son of speakers you know i do all these different things and but it's all coming from like being really bad at stuff making mistakes it's all born out of that and i remember i

1:33:24worked i got signed i asked my my band sort of i remember waking up in a dog basket in coventry and thinking i may not make it in a band i was thinking we have no money and and then a guy i was i was in a magazine and a guy was on concord and goes i want to employ him like one of those things like about the jerk is like pointing a pointing a finger i'm gonna employ him and then i got employed by a guy called rob dickens who was a big guy in the big cheese in the music industry at the time and i you know he was very kind to me but he was a record company guy

1:33:55and uh i remember i was here i had this basement with no equipment in it it was like i talked about equipment this was in the 90s i had like you know um an adat machine and a you know and i was recording singers that came in and i literally i worked on something and i played it to him and he went well you're not very good are you and he played me no scrubs by tlc which cost like a million dollars to make and i learned from that that people don't listen to your process people don't listen to your

1:34:26but i only had this or you know i didn't know what i was doing people only listen to the final version they compare it to the best my father said the same thing to me it's like you know you just have to be the best you can be and it's that it's like you know compare yourself to your favorite records and don't make excuses for what you for why you don't sound as good as that it's as simple as that it's like you know it's hard it's hard but once you realize that and i know that and this is going to sound arrogant

1:34:58but i know that you may not like what i do but i don't really make stuff that sounds bad i know that i know when i've done something it'll sound quite good you know i can master i can mix i can i know it sounds quite good and and i think that's you know i suppose what i'm saying is that just try and you know don't make excuses for yourself because because no one's kind no one goes oh you gave you your best shot it doesn't happen that's what i've experienced it's like you know it's funny because i was really bad really really wasn't very good and maybe

1:35:29i'm not that good now but i but i really wasn't very good and being the son of george martin it was really weird it's like people either think you're the second coming or you just couldn't get another job it's one of those things there's no there's no medium and i'm probably a bit average is the truth but it's like oh my god it's like thank you know the king is dead longer the king or well who does he think he is and i think that means that in in my position you just have to you you have to be sort of fairly single-mindless but you just no one's empathetic when they listen they

1:35:59listen expecting it to be great all the time yeah well not just that's advice or just or just a therapy session maybe it's both thank you thank you for your time pleasure thank you for your time no i mean it's that it's fascinating and i mean you know i've got to disagree with what your your value of yourself there no but um it's not like no it's not i think i'm bad it's just like it's like it's not for me to judge it's just one of those things that you just have to i don't know but it is interesting what you're saying it's interesting so you can pay

1:36:31yourselves you know i people some some people think that i sit and i go you know what i'm going to do i'll go mix robber soul out of my way i've got a park up i could base abbey road open the gates to me this is what i'm going to do today and it's not like that you know what happens is the beatles ask me to go and work on the stuff and i'm really really grateful they do and and humiliated by you know that not humbled by not humiliated humbled by i'm getting humiliated by other things humbled by it um but i remember being appalled we were there's a big atmos

1:37:01room in abbey road and he'd never heard the atmos mix of sergeant pepper and he came in with mary who i'm very fond of his daughter and we we stood and i think it's the first time we'd listened to the album in its entirety for a long time it was great because a very big room he sort of wandered around it's a big film mix room he wandered around he was listening to you know it's in the ceiling and and he goes god we were a we were a really good band i said yeah you were a really good band he goes you know what and we were we were really

1:37:33lucky to have your dad i went yeah and he goes and we're really lucky to have you and i was like well well i'm really lucky that you asked me to do this stuff and he gave me a hug and said we're all really lucky and i think that's what it is that's that's what it is it's not and people go it it must be like you said it must be complicated but it's not complicated you know you have to make decisions and then you go home it's like there are much more complicated jobs than this in the world there's much more this is such a privilege to be able to you

1:38:06know i i you know from being someone that was a runner at air studios in 1989 thinking if i could get my name as an assistant engineer a tape off the back of a record i'll be made to being here now where i'm the old bloke that walks neighborhood and go he probably can't hear anything or whatever but i'm you know i've been around for a long time doing stuff it's like wouldn't even have dreamt it you know sometimes i said people i think i've made up my life because it's been good yeah well we should let you get on

1:38:36with your life but i want to play one more track from rubber soul and like an outro track and i think it should be your choice you know what should we go oh is this too choice too big a too big a decision no but all i mean do you have a favorite moment i mean you talk about in my life but um is there another song that we could dip into just just to let us walk out of the building as well right you walk out of the building you know what i think i'll play this i think because we haven't heard any george yes you know and this is funny so this is this is an important

1:39:09track because what happened with the beatles which is a really privileged thing for them as they become this they become this global success and like say the kinks for example who obviously had this pretty frustrating time with america but it meant that they went out to america they get they got to knock on hold there but they went to go to america and they went and smoked dope with the birds and david crosby and and and they met these people and and they brought it back home and i think you know dylan etc you know what was going on america and it's it's so

1:39:40difficult to imagine the world then now where we live in a truly global environment where you can have anything on your phone you can have any image you want you can see any picture you want whenever you want to so hard to imagine that that's not the case you have your four walls around you and the records you own so to be able to go somewhere and you have to go somewhere to really feel the culture and this song is that culture this song is george harrison

If I Needed Someone

1:40:05meeting the band yeah so this is if i needed someone then george's kind of encounter with the birds um and that this is what resulted yeah so this is this is the beatles going to going out to america and finding a different culture and this is george harrison meeting the band and becoming the birds fantastic giles thank you that was fantastic a real joy thank you john thank you thank you for listening and in particular

1:40:38thanks to all of you who have signed up to support us on patreon i'm just one part of the team that brings you tape notes and it relies on your support access to patreon includes the full-length videos of new episodes where possible ad free episodes and detailed gear lists among many other things if you'd like to join head to the link on our socials or website for pictures highlight clips and behind the scenes content head to our instagram or youtube channel and on discord you can join the growing take notes community once again thank you for listening until

1:41:08next time goodbye again it's like having being able to put drums in the middle and you know and especially a song like this where it should be this glorious sunshine big thing we fill in the blanks when we hear it but then you hear it

1:41:38if i had some more time to spend then i guess i'd be with you my friend if i needed someone had you come some other day there it might not have been like this but you see now i'm too much in love

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