S3, Ep 7- Pressure at the pen

Introduction

0:00hello and welcome to bear mountain bc.com stock dog philosophies podcast i'm your host i spanky bear and not joining me as always is justin sugar bear he's not here for this episode this is the second one i think we ever done without him yeah he got called home called homes so we're gonna have a pretty similar episode before i'm joined by this co-host now

0:30go ahead and call him that my dad i'm here he's here with us so in uh this episode we kind of

Run Breakdown

0:37introduced this last episode as well kind of our run breakdown so we found some more old old runs to kind of go through this is episode 49 we're getting had several episodes come out kind of uh uh recently here it's going to get to 50 to kind of start fresh uh in some ways with podcast and some stuff we're doing on the website so make sure you check that out as well on our youtube page i'm gonna help grow those as well but uh coming up on new year's day we have a very very special 50th edition with national champion usbca sheepdog open national champion even

1:16um and she coke herself so it's a great interview that we had and hopefully very helpful for everybody and hopefully we can get her back on again in the future um it was a really good one yeah it was a great episode we could have a lot more to talk about but she kind of took the reins we asked a couple of questions we might have asked five or six questions the whole time she just went on and gave very detailed answers and talked about the dogs and so that's what we kind of want to look and see and so what we'll do today is kind of go back through and look at some other runs so i pulled

1:47up some old ones from tom and roos maybe some other ones mixed in there as well and uh we'll just kind of watch those and comment break down stop what we see and so these some of these are from this year a couple of maybe from even before that and so uh yeah let me try to get my screen fixed so we

Video Podcast

2:09can see what we want to see here this is a video podcast today i want to pull up the videos so i want to start right at the front oh pull it back on my screen let me move this over not the the best technical here we go justin and which well we don't have him here let's go ahead and break down his run and we'll we can really

2:44critique him because he's not here you know what i mean right right and let me get back to pull up my screen on this side sorry still learning how to do this great still learning how to do this screen window sure all right here we go we're back with it we're back with it now

Justin's Run

3:03all right here we go justin and woodrow at tom and roos again shorter field so what is what is uh going through head as you're handling some of these in a different a smaller field as opposed to a big field uh really you just want the outrun to come up good on this if you if your outrun's wrong your left's going to be wrong and in this short area it is hard to correct what you're yeah nice solid left right there he came in sent the way towards the pressure of this field so you can kind of cover that the whole time sheep stayed lifted them really well and calm that's a good start

3:34and he he sent the harder of the two ways i think the tree yeah give you problems but he's doing pretty good here kind of got to bounce a little bit right there it's tough in a small course because you want to be as close as you can on the line but you also want to be a little bit off the sides and go go around you know but these sheep are working really nice for them you have a little whistle there to stop them this can be tough depending on the day

4:06yeah then run to that exhaust all right pause real quick and there hold on i got oh we're back start with that quick pause we'll just keep going right where we left off again a really short drive here having to go on the pressure the exhaust is to the left over there and you really have to hold pressure on that side because the exhaust so yeah it does make it tough night and he moves him way in he worked so well and then just missed it big time i don't know what

4:39his thought process was there had him right in the mouth it's it's a tough thing to balance let them not run that way right but also keep them straight because you really can't be it yeah and he missed that penalty yeah run was going really well until then and honestly you know nice under control but he's he's bringing them on now so yeah yeah it can get pretty quick going across on the cross drive either direction we come back okay i want to do one thing with this real quick i want to restart this run because

5:10he's not in it i have a fun idea for us let's walk you through let's walk the people through um you're judging this run or we're judging this run right now what are we thinking right now okay we'll look and see this outrun's looking good so far um again deep wide comes in where you want good lift comes in good there uh the heads turn right

5:40towards us pretty much right right the lift i wouldn't knock him on anything you might get him for a point on the outrun because he they looked a little short but it's tough in small field but yeah it is yeah and really really good he didn't lose any points in the top part of the gate but right there he probably dropped a couple especially being such a small course you got to be a little harsher than you would in a big field with some of these steps yeah right there a little bit yeah you know so he's probably he's i'm thinking between one on that outrun left exchange yeah

6:12and then probably four three to four probably probably on the on the and the right here's going really good he hadn't lost anything i mean he lost a couple because he got them right back online but yeah pretty quick there all things considered but they're looking good right there everything's looking good yeah he had a little stop there you could probably get him for a point or two but as of right now he's not lost really maybe two on the drive tops right there and then here we

6:42turn him back towards us the other way yeah he he comes up short now we're talking probably at least five or six points i'm probably hitting him at least six i think what is there i usually do yeah yeah he might have lost six to eight points there doing that and then we're another six off that so we're probably at least 15 probably to 16 16 yeah then we're not quite coming straight back into that shedding ring yet it doesn't look like it is a little bit so there's a good you want to be right on that panel basically coming back in so we're probably yeah he's probably

7:13getting about two there so it's anywhere from 16 to 20 points probably yeah probably off from that yeah on a one that wasn't that terribly offline all that much but just the key couple just points it was just to miss the panels which is a you know it's a penalty they're there for a reason yeah i agree i have no idea what this run actually got scored i wish i could tell you that but if you're you know if you're out and if you're home working missing the gate you didn't get the job done so that's kind of why you get to hit so hard yeah um i wouldn't take anything yet they turn a little

7:51bit or push out i would i give some leniency at the pen especially on sheep like this that don't want a pen i remember right they start to sneak out a little bit or he does too much i'm gonna take a point off but he's in a good spot right now i might have to take at least one off right there for that one yeah that one oh yeah we're talking yeah now three or four coming off and that was you're gonna you're usually about a point ahead across that corner yeah so you know on this two

8:22laps around and you've lost all your pin points basically so yeah and that's all for that runs now we'll go oh okay um let me find another run

Technical Difficulties

8:34wrong thing sorry technical difficulties we're trying to figure this out there we go so now and i am not the difficulty because i have no idea what he's doing trying to pull up the rest of the videos i want to go to do it the easiest probably lose on both screens and yeah here we go here's a run look at this

9:08are you doing the car me at diploma city i don't know that i have that one i was gonna look up i seen it earlier on one of your screens i thought

9:20i don't think i have that one this was a tater one i've got about five minutes of it it again this was at tom and ruse i'm filming from the back it looks like right here okay so how do i get this go full screen for me it's tater so i'd probably say you may over like just a hair hold on real quick i'm having

9:57again we're still learning the process of this podcast so let me try to close one down now let's go again right here and this should hopefully fix our problem

10:13i'm gonna go nova i guess oh okay i'll get it set up the feature i'll do this a little better all right come back to my screen here share screen window this is an older one because the pin's on that side yeah here we go we figured out the system there's my famous shirt we keep talking about there's the fame shirt they're going to the opposite way justin went last time this is the way most

10:47people normally send to the right over here good you're going quick

10:53i mean 12 o'clock yeah it's hard to beat that that's pretty good i wouldn't probably give anything hit me on the out run for the out run maybe one on the left because it maybe a little bit just a hair off yeah yeah pretty solid start yeah as of yet we're still inside the panel so we're yeah i've been super super straight but i mean pretty straight they've been a little bit of a zig but not much don't love to see them turn their sides here because tough on these sheep in this small arena or small field it is a little bit challenging there's a lot of things

11:28to consider you know and as a judge if i was looking at it like i'm kind of forgiving about some of that yeah i know it's gonna just come with the territory a little bit that's where we really have to turn the jets on to make the turn uh she does you turn them tight get them back towards you yeah and then now we're going but the problem is i think they turned too much towards you yeah yeah that's yeah they turned away inside there and i had to so we've lost and they missed the panel on the inside but yeah the time you could do it's and i'm probably hitting myself for a

12:04six or eight there i mean yeah i mean think about it in terms of like thirds kind of like here's 10 here 10 for the cross drive 10 for that leg coming and now we're pretty much right online so if we can get a move straight across we'll be and that what in this field that what just happened is one of the big issues um that we face because they do get a little sour towards that exhaust and so you really cover to try to cover that and i'll put them on off and then you can't cover the other side too and so they decided to run the other way because there's no pressure over there you kind of just

12:36sol essentially so yeah you got back control worked well

12:43and get them stop turn uh hopefully they don't come back through i don't think they do uh get them turn back coming to me turn you're gonna pass the panel and then make that sharp turn back and that's when you have to kind of get around them at first because they will go across that little creek yeah right here i think you're trying to get her over more she's not quite she's not wanting to release she's not wanting to go over there yet she's kind of fighting you yeah yeah because you want to get her behind them and bring them towards you at the pen or at the shedding

13:14ring wherever you do it here but she's not quite letting that happen because she doesn't want to lose the pressure don't want to have to chase them down again yeah going to that exhaust so we're losing a lot right here because we're off of line we are yeah and i probably hit myself at least four here and probably going even more so oh wait no we're going to the pen over there oh the pen is over there yeah so i may not hit me uh maybe two there because we paused out you know stalled out some yeah take that back the pen's on the other side i thought

13:46yeah the pen's on the other side it hadn't been like that in a long time yeah yeah it's been a little bit ta this is a open ranch run you have with her yeah so that's so on that side yeah

14:00and she's usually a pretty good pinner i don't know if i can't remember if we pinned them here or not but good patient look right there look how wide the gate is open it's almost down the line yeah okay get that sucker open wide and then grab the edge of that rope extend yourself out your help your dog as much you can it's teamwork here this is a good view right here actually up the pen you should got to cover that you turn their head kind of burst a little bit on

14:31you right there yeah and these were hard-pinned sheep yeah these are not sheep that want to go in there yeah and look how far off she is and she's you get to that side you want to be this is the struggle with trying to pin is you have to cover that side the dog has to and you have to get behind them to push them in yeah and so you try to balance those two things at once that's the real struggle and you have to cover your side as well she's at the perfect angle right now to make one move to cover or to make one move to push in heads turn and now you're gonna step up that's that's on me again

15:07once you're in that mouth it's on as a handler if like it's on me now right to go in and do that and here be careful on here if you crotch down or something they're gonna burst you know any pressure like that so yeah look at how softly you're coming in novice handlers watch this again we're still fighting on the tough and she handled him really calm he backed off right there too that's a really key point take some pressure off of him there we go that was a really good pin

15:38and uh let's just watch that last exchange and she does that little bit there on her own i didn't give her a command let's watch this last little exchange where you step up just one more time right here you'll see her uh make a move and that's that's her doing it it's because she knows what we're trying to do

16:03yeah good stopping that that right there is big you pause you're still covering them all the way across then you settle in nice that's a that's good work right there yeah and having your dog knowing what you're trying to accomplish is a big thing because she did that without me making a command she did i wouldn't be quick enough yeah yeah that was really impressive trying to get balance my mouse on

16:33the right screen here that was good very very good let's go to this see right down there oh those were the spring foot on we did last time oh they were oh okay this is just a run from our uh oh okay we're about to do just from the house here oh no i don't do that one just 19 seconds never mind let's do this one i think it's tater yeah a little tater run and then maybe we'll just talk about penning

Tater's Run

17:00it's a good segue from what we just watched hopefully tater gives us a good example of penning too sometimes he can

17:08all right we will continue on with this run filming from the back again i really love this view i think um i think we over flanked just a bit um yeah again don't you just love this view right here and is how it stays filming oh i sent him that direction he came up short just kind of but it worked out really great yeah lift to where we wanted it um i'm going to pause for just a second i

17:38i wanted to explain to the viewers we've got a great view right here of the fetch coming down i'm going to rewind a little bit and we can watch the lift again um i know you say to people all the time too get a chance to work the back go do it because you get a different perspective and that's what this run is going to provide us right here most importantly that lift spot how he comes in and greets those sheep um and then also the fetch we'll see how straight it is because women i'm looking dead straight at you there so yeah see all the dog work here as opposed to the other side from the

18:12post you're watching the sheep you don't get to see the dog and there's the stuff he's doing up here the walk-in that's uh i'm not giving him any command there he's he's got to do the lift to see feeling that out okay here we go again we're going to walk to it set the stage

18:30nice and slow a little bit short there but not yeah i'm probably hitting him probably too there look at them and they turn they walk i mean he was short maybe but the left you really can't complain about no no the lift was dead straight dead straight towards you covering just little steps in control so you want to see yeah you'd like to move a little more brisk but in this field that's not really a big issue you don't have to worry about going too fast now we're bouncing a little bit we're going to settle down the draw is really to the yeah that's why that's why i came up short

19:06that way too and while we oftentimes we send the other way so you don't have to worry about that

19:13as much just hope that right right

19:19this is pro this is probably his nurse one of his nursery runs so he was a two-year-old this time could have been could have been solid turning them we got him again right in that good spot not a ton of points you get off of here maybe three or four on the fence but top that stops i would think yeah

19:42good you got a jumping sheep he catches them right there again i love this view honestly this is really good we got to turn them back there we're going to turn back up he's holding them he's holding yeah

19:55fighting that pressure point of the release there and you're still going to get it in we're going to get them yeah the view is not as great right there but the cross drive is going to be a good view i think yeah again watch him move them right here

20:09control little steps and okay now we get moving we can move that like let's yeah oh look at that right there just slowed down pressure on his feet you don't want dogs to lie down that much right no no i i don't like to bounce him but he he stopped to sail just stand on his feet feel the pressure of them creep in i mean talk about beautiful right there

20:39uh it'd be hard to do anything in the cross drive right if they look like one line here and we are yeah i mean that was 10 out of 10 right there i think and then i mean just look at him right there holy cow it makes a good tight turn so we're fixing to turn it watch him cover right there and we're coming back right off that panel he might come in between them nope nope no he's that's perfect and they're turning back we're going to the pins on the that side still it's not coming fully across back but man isn't that nice you can see him re-left again right there

21:13just gets to a solid pace not a run really

21:19just it's right down the center of the mouth of the pen so we're um and he is a good pinner so

21:28yeah and i'll be ready to kind of pause if we need to yeah we can watch a little bit and we're far enough away it's a little hard to see what they're doing in them how far from the mouth of the pen they are but yeah a good spot can't see him if he's off that right spot it's what you want to have him him off in that like angle between where one step he could cover one step he can go behind um then you can go

22:01to work from there

22:05so how do you go about in your head

22:09what are some factors look to like okay it's my turn to work it's his turn to work i'm looking at the the sheep watching them and uh you can tell when they're reacting to him

22:20like they're they're pushing on me so i know it's my turn i've got to get them to turn back um just watching the sheep i don't really have to worry about him

22:31yeah when they turn their heads towards him you know you you need it to move him a little bit

22:39now we're just trying to get the pressure all the way around them so they will turn their head into the pen right here in just a second i think we might walk him up and they do it i mean you're doing all you can to reach across right there so that's what uh you know i i do it quite a bit right there we got their head to turn so then it's all over

23:04just little movements slight movements because they were touchy just to get that head to turn in you don't want anything brash or big or anything waving the stick right there turn their head that's one thing that i do um a lot on tougher sheep to pen is whenever you can get that gate back to kind of 90 degrees now okay i'm gonna take the rope i'm reaching out as far as i can on the rope i'm gonna kind of go around covering my stick and i should be able to recover with my pressure just about all of them that's left there right right you know what i mean

23:34that's kind of what you do here i was one more time yeah i was at a bob rose trial and marion jones was judging and he stopped the trial it may have been the lower class i can't remember yeah and he got out there and opened the gate all the way up and that was his thing was he told us because people weren't opening it all the way and uh he got out there swung it all the way open and said open the damn gate you got eight foot of mouth eight foot of gate and you know six eight foot of yeah but then work your way back in as you're finishing right yeah doing baby steps do not

24:07try to be quick i see again we see novice handles all the time like oh they're in i'm gonna rush over and shut it and they shoot out yeah you got to be really careful about where you place your uh your pressure at just yep and just subtle movement uh yes all we're trying to get is just a re the reaction we want and so we had her stick on the outside edge just that little slight swinging she turned her head and that's all all we needed let's see i don't think i did all of these the other day pick the good ones where we were maybe we watched that one already

24:45i think justin sent me the same run that i had oh yeah sorry oh here we go this would be a good one for for old time's sake oh yeah oh man the old man yeah

25:12yeah this is another one to watch again on back to pinning real quick um yeah make sure you take

Penning Discussion

25:20your time and you're real selective and again we're going to talk about it a lot more in our next episode with angie where she kind of goes into a little bit that i mentioned as well of we're watching our stock not our dog you want to have a deep trust in your dog to do the right things and that's maybe never more important than at the pin or at the shedding ring because you're trying to manipulate them really together as a team and so uh you really have to have a deep trust in your dog right know where they're going to be and that they can execute the next step for you because

25:54you can't do it all by yourself and if you're watching your sheep you know where your dog's at so yeah you could they'll tell you right the sheep's telling you and and so keep your eye on your sheep and as we'll probably see at the end of this run with aslan um being able to get your dog back off the stock and release pressure at the pin is a really helpful tool as well yeah because then you can move them where you need to get to sometimes you're like rubbing that pressure the whole way as

26:24they move they're pushing them off offline or off your area away from the pen and so you have to really double and deal with that but if you can get them back off like you can do with them uh that's a huge advantage at the pin yeah yeah you send them here in the rain send them on the come or the the away excuse me yeah i like the away on this field i do too just trust the person to hold them the other way and if your dog runs deep enough it's not a problem i feel like going into the

26:56pressure they'll stop short more often and so that's why i try to just this is older that we now feed them off the top of a bucket to yeah make the lift better but again i can't knock my i can't knock him there that was outland lift zero zero probably and we're down broadway right here it looks like yeah i mean i don't know that i could take you for a point right now no it's it was really nice i mean still we're booking yeah

27:29we're cooking with grease right there let's see

27:33i mean i think we're turning the different direction and we turn the others yeah i think so yeah yeah you got them in right here with you they kind of stop so maybe you'll see a point there but you're been bringing because you're bringing them straight online and then turn on the last second as a judge i'm probably not really gonna hit you hard for that or get you laid off of that some of these were had they hadn't been around people and they hadn't seen a dog so it makes it yeah really tough making this could be the first run of the weekend i don't i don't know when this was either so this is a yeah a good thing you catch them you put them right back on line with yourself

28:07this would be a really good view um because i'm kind of lined up right with you as we're filming getting down broadway i mean maybe we're looking at one or two points lost that's gonna be a couple probably um but even then it's not much off not much really what you really regathered put them right back online yeah and i'm maybe talking two to three points off the whole run so far tops and we're fixing to make the turn i mean turn they go in he overflanks a little bit but i'm gonna catch them right dead online i mean this was a great one to pick up here yeah it's a good one

28:41for me to choose holy cow you're putting down as hard as he runs on this field when he turned it it made it easy for him in his prime

28:54down there good i mean i'm i'm looking at three to four off total tops right now you could probably argue less than that yeah um that would be yeah i'm looking probably two if i was you see he turns his shoulder off and but he keeps his eye on him so it turns them right back online and in this field this pace is perfect yeah you don't want to get him too rowdy especially as we go to the shed um you want them settled so you can get them stopped and you can manipulate them the way you want to he's really working nice here yeah but he you know he he's really square on that so when he's

29:32bringing i'm coming to the shed first and this i i don't remember this so it could be good it could be could be bad it's going great right now i'm looking at maybe may myself i was taking probably two points off when you it's a risk because when you ask him to come through it's it's all or nothing right then he's a little there you go that's what i just talked about a second ago getting back off the stock that's really helpful i wish i could do that car sometimes so let's you readjust here at the shed and get them the way you want to get them you got them strung out here can you move now

30:06and it's a you with three lambs that's what's making it tough you got to pick your because you can get her to leave then the others when you get that next one to follow they all follow yeah yeah he's turning in tight there

30:22you really haven't attempted yet so it's gonna be hard i can't really take your thing off yet you stayed in the rain yeah you haven't attempted you're just getting set up and manipulating them um i'm not really gonna hit you for anything yet

30:38i get my set and then we come in i wasn't looking good enough to tell us you got the right set or not yeah i got the right set he turned the way i turned let's uh i'm gonna look back at this real quick if it i probably get him i'm gonna look back at this again just real quick and then

30:58let's see it play out again one more time so i i get that those two to turn their head right there you got them kind of set okay there you go you go to the right two here i go to the right two the problem i have with it is i want to come back inside the judge called it really quick it called i would have loved to see him come back inside and really push those two away but the judge gave it to you it didn't give you the chance he turned on the right two and had his eye on him so when he came back in behind me we were good because of how they called it without you i would probably take a point or two off because i want to see him come in the middle and troll them but the judge didn't

31:32ask to do that they called it really really quick there so you know the chance yeah

31:37i think it's scoring the 90s i don't know what the final score was but i would say this is a 90s score for sure yeah it was a really good score he may oh he may have won that with this run i'm not sure it it'd be hard to it would be hard to beat it'd be pretty hard to beat this one in this field and these sheep there you go solid looking at the pen here

32:01again just the pace and letting them set back smart decision it is tough some of his big flanks he just gets and goes instead of gonna be a little softer at times but we get a but he works a pin usually works the pins pretty good and he's in the right spot just stand and holding pressure and again there we go that's the pin yeah what a run what a run any uh that was i mean i i would probably go 93 plus somewhere in there yeah i'm thinking i don't know about you i miss running

32:38him uh especially when he was in his prime like here um because you could score really well yeah uh if you had really flatty sheep you could still control everything or if you had sheep like this you had to he was really really nice hard to beat yeah he's so fast and if you didn't know this is the sire to tater yeah so um he won he won a lot of trials for me yeah he did great he was a real

33:08real good dog and we got to show him off one last time in a really good way holy cow that was uh yeah he was watched a bunch of runs in the same field there wasn't one really close to that i don't think no no that i mean taters was pretty good um but that one just was i mean just kind of dominant in the way that went yeah that one was smoking there was a good example of of how he could handle those fields and those sheep well um by not moving too fast good pace just staying off he kind of wears a little bit but it worked for the way that he worked and then he could also run and push in those big

33:41fields too so he kind of was able to do it all yeah yeah competitive in both yeah well uh thank you guys for listening to our 49th episode hopefully you learned something from this and let us know if it's better without justin we'll just cut him off all together okay we don't have anybody to tease if he's not here yeah it is a little we just we kind of gotta get him a little bit with his running yeah um but yeah thank you guys so much and uh see you next time