S3, Ep. 4- Back to Business

0:00Hello and welcome to baremountainbc.com, Stock Dog, Philosophies, Podcast. I'm your host, I'm Spanky Barrett. Joining me, as always, is Justin. Sugar. Barrett. And joining us, as most of the time now. Show regular. Yeah, show regular now. Our dad, you for Barrett. I'm here. Alright, there we go. So, we came back from a big hiatus last week, but now we're back for another kind of more normal episode,

0:33typical episode for us. We'll talk about some of the trials we've been to over the past few months, talk about some of the stuff with the puppies we've had, we'll talk about some other stuff as well, some new rules and different things we might find kind of interesting, and we'll kind of debate some of those. But how's it going, Shig? It's going pretty good. I had a fun time in the last few months since we've done this. We've had quite a few trials that we've went to. Dad's been to... We went five weeks of dog work.

1:04Four weeks of trial and one... Doing demos for a whole weekend. Yeah. Scott's Fest. And then here lately, since then, the last few weeks, I've just been not doing a whole lot. I've had a bunch of other tasks I've needed to get done at home, so the dog's been a little more on the back burner for me. I know you and Dad have been working your puppies a little bit, so where are you going to start this thing at? Let's kind of start off with some of the training we had,

1:34or some of the trial we did to start there. You obviously had a lot of success, so I'll let you kind of take it off and tell some of your story. So, yeah, so it was a fantastic year for Woodrow altogether.

1:50First thing for him was we won Dog of the Year, which was a big deal for me. I haven't won that with Spice since 2019. It was the last time I have won a Dog of the Year. So it was really nice to have just a consistent year. We didn't ever win first until the very last trial of the year. It was a lot of seconds and thirds quite a bit. Him and I have just... kind of started coming together. I finally understood how to not get in the way of running him, sometimes letting him be free, and sometimes I've made the mistake of not making sure he's supposed to be doing

2:25and making sure he's staying relaxed and confident and controlled and not getting built up with the pressures. Yeah, and I think it's a good example that a lot of new handlers or trainers can kind of learn from is that with this sport especially, you can get really down sometimes and be like, I just feel like you're miles away. And then all of a sudden it just kind of flips for you because Sunday you had your big run, you finished fourth out of 60 dogs that a really, really tough trial

2:57had scored in the upper 80s. Yeah, there we go. It was set out in 2020. I think it was 2020.

3:05Yeah, it was 2020.

3:09I'm wanting to play as well.

3:14Five years later, we have finally achieved doing at least once. We finally had a great run. Yeah, we finally had a good run. At an 83?

3:24And it comes off the heels of two absolutely awful, disappointing kind of runs. Yeah, I mean, the ones that – You were pretty distraught and like almost giving up hope, and then here it comes out of nowhere. That's kind of the thing about a doctor on that happens. Yeah, and that was honestly the hardest thing for me was, man, the first day we can't get the sheep lifted, and the second day we don't get the sheep lifted. And there were some problems I had done with Woodrow the week before with moving the sheep and putting him in some tough plots

3:55where I kind of hurt his confidence going into a trial where he's really going to have to lean and push and hard. And I was able to make some adjustments and try to help him a little bit through the course of being able to come home with the trial being so close and do little things at home, tinkering at home just to try to help him gain his confidence back where he was a little shaky. And then, you know, scoring in 83 there is the best run any of us have ever had in the Open class at Angie's. So that was really nice for me because now I have that to say over you

4:25anytime you like to make comments. Who scored higher and has a higher placing? And you know who's going to follow that, right?

4:33What would I say in response to that, do you think? Who was for the National Finals? Yeah, who finished the course at the National Finals in the Open? Yeah. This guy.

4:47I mean, overall, I was really happy with that weekend. The Sunday made it very happy if I had ended up playing the same way. Friday and Saturday had not been happy at all because I didn't even get through the course, which is something I haven't done since the first time being there in 2020 before I never even got started on the course of being anything. Yeah. And every year since that, I at least had one to two days where we've gotten around the course-ish or got here to retire somewhere. But, you know, I made one or two days we've gotten through the course. So it was really nice to be able to do that.

5:20That made me very happy.

5:23And then there's other trials we've been to. We had Tom and Roos had their October and their November trial. It was fun. I really enjoyed the difficulty of the second one with having four sheep out there and do a split, 10, and a single was fun. I mean, it's a different challenge. You don't always get to do a lot of practice. It's not always easy on especially bear sheep sometimes to get tougher. And then with going to the Knox's and running on the wool sheep there.

5:57And honestly, the runs were a little different, but not much. The biggest thing I could tell the difference with the Knox's sheep versus tear sheep. I'm not going to say wool sheep in general. But with theirs was the fact that in the shed ring and the pen is they were different. If you got a hole, it was opened up wide. They were trying to cut back through yet and try to circle around. They were just going to tend to be by themselves. So, if you got a hole, you could get your shed. It wasn't, you know, difficult with that hair sheath.

6:28I want to munch back together real fast or don't want to give at all. You could string them out a little bit. And then around the pen, if they could beat you around a corner. They were going to do it. Once they beat you. Once they figured out they could beat you and you couldn't stop them. It was over. Yep. Yeah. And that hair sheath will do that too. But it was just like the difference of watching their eyes and the way they behave looking at them. Yeah. And you're like, you're a little bit smarter than the other ones were. You've got to figure it out.

6:59I mean, it's a fantastic trial to go run at. I recommend it for anybody. It's one on the bucket list to go do. Just because the course was massive. It was the biggest driving cross track I've ever done. The elevation change, you're starting here and you go down and then back up. The air is still on top of the hill. Yeah. It wasn't super long that way, but it was tough because that changed. There's all that. And so I recommended the sheep were great. You can move through the course really fast. But it was literally the longest drive cross track I've ever done.

7:33And not that I've done like at the finals or certain places. No, it's longer than the finals. At least the first part. Yeah. Yeah. The drive was long. It's honestly, I didn't have a problem with pushing down the hill and going up or anything where I thought I was going to struggle at other places where I caused my own problems and not staying on top of the hill to make sure. But, I mean, Nova did really well through it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. I didn't have the best trial session myself, but I'm still coming off, you know, a dog

8:10that had puppies and I get it all figured out still. But another bad, another worse season. And just a reminder for anybody out there, great lesson that even people in Open have some bad moments. It can go pretty bad. I took my dog Parker to his first trial and he could do our whole field. Uh, pretty well. What'd he do? What'd he do? And he crossed over.

8:41Redirected good. Went out nice and wide.

8:44And then came in behind him real good. Started to walk up and then just... Started eating the meat. Lifted him a little bit. Started eating the feed. Then feed on it. And then took a big dump. That was how the day went. That was... That was how it went. How does that make you feel? Shit. Just being honest. Not great. He felt a little bit because I was like, well, at least James can see that it's not just him. You know? You saw Parker do really good at the practice of the day doing all this big stuff.

9:15You never know what they're going to do with the first time away from home. Yeah. First time trying. Yeah, the outrun looked really good. The lift was good. And then... Just... He wasn't going to... He wasn't going to stop eating. He wasn't going to stop taking a dump. You know? I just... Let it all in. And then he... Finally, I walked off. Which... You know? Gave him a second. I'm like, okay. I just had him pick up my lips and push me to the... Yeah. Had him lift and push me up.

9:47Sorry. We've got some technical difficulties in trying to work there. But yeah.

9:53Lifted him. Pushed him to the exhaust. He did good. Worked well. I don't care. We'll try again tomorrow. But it went even worse the next day. So... Yeah. And that's the thing is... You never know. You never know how it's going to go. You always hope for the best in consistency. Which you get there eventually. But it's a time... It takes time to get consistent. Get good. And all... Feel comfortable in new spaces. And for you to feel comfortable in new spaces. And the pressures of trialing. It's the whole entire world. So...

10:23It's a challenge. It's a big step. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough. Just recapping a little bit. Justin had some great success. But... Nova was... We were either hit and miss. At Tom and Mary's first trial. We win it. Or we're mid-pack. Or their second trial. We win it. And then we're mid-pack. I can't be consistent with her. And then with... Tater. Every failure was my... It was my fault.

10:53He didn't mess up one time. What happened at Angie's? Yeah. That did finally get out of his own way. And him and Tater did win a day at Angie's in the Oakland Ranch. The first two days, we probably win if I get out of my way. Ty got the... He filmed me the first time. We might do a good recap of those two. I'm going to walk there. I'm going to put it on the screen here in a second.

11:15Yeah. Dad was late on whistles. I think you gave a few whistles. No, I gave a wrong whistle at the shoot. And it cost us. Yeah. Probably cost us a win the first time. Yeah. So don't... Yeah. If you're new to this, don't feel bad. Like... I think you did it all the time. I'm like, come by. Dang it. Away. You know, don't be too mad at yourself. Because... Have the guy who's tried a lot. It's like 30 years old. When somebody messed up on a whistle because they give one and immediately answer it. Two more different... Unless you're like really tuned in, you can't tell.

11:45So, if somebody tells you they never give the wrong command, they're lying. Well, mostly. I don't give a wrong command. Yeah, right. You're lying. You say you don't give it. I've heard it many times. Hey, I don't give them any more. Hey, I whistle them like a champ. Yeah, but you... I guess I... Okay, I'll admit I gave a wrong command when I worked tater because he didn't have the whistle I was given. But that's... It was the right command to me, just the wrong one to him. It's like Bob Allen said when I was telling him this story. He goes, if you say you don't give a wrong whistle, wrong command, you're lying.

12:22Yeah. Everybody's going to give one. Yeah, every once in a while. You've got to make a mistake. Just the human part of it. Okay. So, we'll do... We're going to kind of move through a couple of kind of quick questions. Not only questions, but a couple of quick items of news or just discussion topics. Then we'll finish up with some training advice that kind of ties back in to some of the stuff that went over last. Last episode with our amazing guest that we had, Beth Kerber, author. Okay. Or co-author. You know, if she's the spanky or if she's the sugar of her operation.

12:53You know?

12:55But the first thing I'm going to look through, I'm just kind of curious in her take. And then we'll get to the one that kind of ties back into what we just talked about. But it's a couple months old now. Several months old now, I guess. But the USBCHA is going to allow co-sanctioning cattle. So, what are your thoughts on that? I think it's a good idea for the cattle, USBCHA cattle, because they don't have the main trials. Well, not that many.

13:25They're just hosting the USBCHA trials. And you have so much with the NCA and the Mountain States, both already willing to co-sanction with each other. That it was hard for the USBCHA cattle to compete. Because if you don't have the ability to put it on again, if you're putting it on, how are you going to be able to host the finals and get the recognition people wanting to try out? That's the prestige that it is to win the USBCHA cattle.

13:58And competing in that was a challenge that you've just made it a little bit harder here. Because you're not just points in time only. You now have a true outrun and lift that's being judged. And so you have to be able to have it all back to do these certifications. But I think it makes, I think that's the benefit of the USBCHA is it has a little more prestige to it. It is a little bit more of a challenge. It can be harder to win if your dogs don't do really nice outruns or do decent lifts.

14:30It can be harder to win because you have to start in a hole that somebody else may not be. Uh-huh. And you've ran, you two, Ty and Dad here, both ran at the national cattle finals in the open. And did you get in the nursery once, Ty? Uh, no, I would have. He qualified because of COVID. I know you ran the open once. I know Dad's ran it once or twice in the open and in the nursery.

14:56So you guys have seen more of how the finals works there. So what was your thoughts with this? Um, I like the way they do it. It's a big field. Your dog has to, you know, you're going to have to have some control on your dog. You got to, you got to be able to do a big outrun. Uh. How do you feel about the hosting? I think it, it'll be good. Um, and it puts more money into the USBCHA cattle by doing that. Um, you know, like we was talking, uh, with Lyle about winning it.

15:30You make more money judging it than you do winning the thing. You know, because there's just not that much money in it, so. If you don't have the, the, the, I don't mean helping fund it. Yeah. There's less funding. There's less money. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, like I said, cattle trials have just become so few and far between. Even for the, I mean, other organizations that are just on cattle, they've had to kind of resort to using some more sheep for trials just because the prices are getting up there.

16:00It's just, again, there were like four or five trials in the whole season that, you know, you could qualify with. But, yeah. So just adding some more, I think, is a good, you know, a good opportunity. And for us. As long as they don't mess up the finals. I think the finals are set up much better than those other two. It's not an arena. It's in a big field. You can actually move around. That's the aspect, I think, that separates them. They don't want to get rid of that. Don't try to, you know. Don't move that to what they do. I think what they do is not good. Don't get rid of the judge part of it. That's a major deal because you want your dog, no matter what, to be able to do an outrun correctly and a lift correctly.

16:36Yeah, definitely.

16:38Yeah, I mean, because I've seen, like, with the Central Cattle Dog Association, if I can't get my words out at all, has had a few sheep trials this year because they've had a little more sellers getting cattle. So they've had a handful of sheep trials. We've not been able to go to them. We've had different things going on that haven't allowed us that have been in the way. Part of that was we were demoing one weekend, doing demos one weekend where they had one. One was a Friday only, which is hard to drive, like, four hours for a one-day only trial.

17:16Cheap entry, so there's not really payback. And it's tougher for me to make that one, to make that one a drive that will require an hour mark for me. I'll do it. If it was two days, I probably wouldn't do it. And they had that one lined up with our family gathering as well. So, and then, I think it's really interesting that they've done that because, and... Well, it's gotten, the cattle have gotten so expensive that the guys that they're getting the cattle from don't want you chewing on their cattle.

17:50They're just too expensive anymore. Yeah. So, yeah, definitely becomes an issue there. And so, I think it's a good win. I think the trials to qualify you there, you know, whatever. And some of them are going to be smaller in those venues anyways. And so, just giving more opportunities for that. Kind of build the finals. Hopefully, more people are invested in that. Hopefully, they can grow. For like me, there wasn't any USPSHU trials to go to. Lyle didn't have one this year. And I could have went to Iowa, but that's six hours away, seven hours away.

18:23And it's at the State Fair and a little bitty arena, which I really didn't want to do. Yeah. That's a bad option you've got, really. It's a challenge. It's interesting to see how it goes. So, I have to check the website more for the cattle to see how many more trials they're going to get. More this direction, not just... Yeah. I'm curious what the difference would be, you know. Gain a few more out in the other... That's what they do, especially with the CCA being a thing. And having some of those guys. And go ahead. Let them compete. You know, if they qualify. Let them go to the big field and see if they struggle.

18:54You know, see what it is. It's important. The other interesting thing, too, is you've got to think, okay, what are the prices going to be for the entries? Are they going to change with this dude? Because now you're potentially sanctioning with three different organizations. You've got to pay $15 worth of them. Next to $15 in sanctioning fees or something like that. Yeah. That's another part to add, just to the cost thing. And they're already expensive, you know, with all the stock fees for cattle. Yeah. And the stock fees, yeah, it's getting crazy high. Yeah.

19:25It's a hard investment. Even first place with a bunch of people, probably not going to pay anything back. They're not going to pay good, certainly. Well, you know. Yeah. I guess I have to have them know. So, yeah, going to the sheep trials, like what Angie's is, it's expensive to do, but it's got good payback. Put on the cattle for the same price, you do that, you're not getting much payback because your cattle fees are so high. Yep. Do you have another question or do you have more? Oh, yeah, that's fine. We'll move on to the next one.

19:57We kind of hit on some things, I think, that tie into this, and so I'll kind of lead off. But just that we saw in Texas, they're going to have, they're going to allow, they have a point system. They're going to allow novice handlers to buy open dogs and then run them in novice. I think it goes really well with what we talked about earlier in me and Parker just starting out in ranch. I think that the ranch class is the class for, you know, beginner handlers who are advancing, maybe have a dog a little more experienced.

20:35And then for open handlers who have a dog, they're just trying to get out there, get some of the green off, essentially. And so I don't think that you have, I don't think it's that hard to be super competitive in a ranch class. I just don't. And so I'm basically saying to these people that, oh, it's too hard to compete in ranch at first, go do it novice. In which it's really simple and not really necessarily helping some of these people develop some of the skills and the talents it takes to actually run a course.

21:08You know, yourself as a handler to catch up to what the dog's at. I don't really love that. I don't think it's fair to people who are real novices as well. You know, you're competing with people who has a brand new dog and a brand new person into this. That's sort of the fairest of playing fields. And I get that they have a pretty, I'm sure it's a pretty tight leash on their point system for this. They can't be in it too long. But just I don't think it really helps grow the sport. You know, I think there's pros and cons.

21:38There's benefits to allowing it because it allows, and just for it, it allows you as a new person getting in this. Let's say you don't have a lot of stock experience. You wanted to get into this and now you're getting a little bit of stock. I mean, you've got five acres. And you want to do this as a sport, or you've got a lot of cattle and you're trying to, or sheep and you're trying to figure it out. It allows you, with that kind of dog, allows you to figure out your cadences, where you need to be, giving commands, understanding certain things.

22:15But at the same time, that dog has the ability to do so much right without you having to say a single word. They're going to bring the sheep right to you because you're not doing a 200-yard outrun with a dog that's been doing a 500-yard outrun for five years, six years, seven, eight years. Now, it's coming in. And you might have very short, you might be buying a 10-year-old dog. Not like some people may not. I don't anticipate it being, hey, I'm selling my five-year-old, four-year-old open dog with an office handler.

22:47I think the thought of it behind it is some of them are able to retire their open dogs to these good homes and let them take them and run them in the novice class. So I picture what they think. I think there's some validity to that. It's a great thought that dogs are allowed to help this animal. It gets for people in the sport that maybe wouldn't be. There's an extra hurdle. But I just don't think that ranch is that much further of a stretch. And probably it's going to be better for these people if they want to actually develop into, you know, handlers that stick around the sport a long time into learning what it takes to really do the course.

23:21Because adding the drive and then, you know, the leg coming back, too, I think is a big part of it as opposed to just send the dog, have the dog put them in the pen for you. Like, you're not really involved all that much. And, you know, it can be a hard challenge just starting out as a new handler trying to figure everything out and understand from using the dog from day to day. You're using it a little bit to, now I'm taking it to a trial and I don't know how big the field is and I'm having to do this. And it's a whole new world. And it's like, oh, I've got to be able to go this far.

23:51And you think, oh, yeah, my dog does a hundred yard out right at home because that's how I have to do this. But you may not anticipate, oh, it's really tight and they're not doing it. They're not out wide. They're not doing a pear-shaped out right. You know, all these things go where they're tight and they're causing the problem. You may not even notice that until you get to the trial. Yeah. Oh, I have a lot of problems. And that's hard because you're a young dog and you don't know enough. You don't know enough if you can go after your dog or, you know, go up the field and correct your dog.

24:23You know, make them lie down or you can stand at the post and wait for somebody to say thank you. And there's a lot of those things that you may not know. But that's the important part is that no matter what, if you think you need to go, hey, I need to go run down the field and just tell my dog down and get folks and mack it off the sheet, it's perfectly fine to do it. I mean, I've done it. I did it with Woodrow. I've done it with Marvel. I've done it with Spice. I did it with Rascal. And Dad can say the same.

24:53He pretty much needed his at a certain point. He's done with Aslan more than once. I think he did that in the open ranch class at Aslan more than once.

25:02So you didn't have to do that. Parker was not making any messes whenever he got there. He made a mess, but just not like it. You know, not like that. Given kind of this, just a little different thought on this. And as long as you've got to have a point system to get them moved up fairly quickly out of the novice class, they can't hang around with the open dog there. But a lot of people, just thinking back through the years, were buying somebody's really top nursery dog that ran at the finals and stuff.

25:37They were buying those and then running in the novice, which is perfectly fine. Yeah, it becomes a little bit of a line. But they're still the same thing, essentially, yeah. So as long as you've got to have a point system to move out because it will affect whether you want it to be or not, it's a competitive thing. And if people, you go, I can't even compete, then you kind of, it's a miracle. You have no shot. I can't spend $10,000 on a dog.

26:07I don't want that kind of money. Yeah. And I can't compete. I'm not even going to try anymore. So you want to get that people out of there, you know, moved up and.

26:17Yeah. And, you know, I don't, I know they've had good intentions because they had to rule the other way for a long time. I know they must have good intentions with trying to do this and trying to help grow the sport in that direction. And for me, I see it as a very, they could do things very differently to grow the sport. And that's just really, because of the way our organization has chose to work the sport for us and help grow the novice class. Yeah.

26:47Because let's have all the classes together. Let's make sure our open classes, people are willing to talk to them and, you know, open with them and showing them and being there for the lower classes as well. Yeah. So we don't separate them into two different places or anything like that.

27:11So that makes a big difference, is I think, being able to. Oh, there's a walk through practice. Oh, it's like, what do you do? I'm tired. Good to see them from the desk. I'm going to dash their chairs, so. Yeah. But, yeah, so I say, we say all that to kind of lead us into our topic of today, our training or trialing, just thoughts. And we mentioned it last episode with Beth a little bit, just on how she started out with, you know, a dog that had been, you know, trained by somebody else.

27:43And had done something wrong. The first dog was a rescue. Yeah. The second dog. She gets a dog. The second dog kind of helps her. And it's a great thing, actually. You know, we kind of had that a little bit because Dad helped train our dogs initially, gave us some stuff. And we kind of did a lot, too. But I just want to talk a little bit about the importance of having a dog or the helpfulness of having a dog that knows what it's doing already. You know, like Ty won the Estus trial in the rain that time with my old retired dog. And there were some people that were angry because, you know, they were.

28:17Ty beat them with that dog and they're going to wait. I was like five. I know. He was six years old. But they were still, you know, they had hurt feelings because. And that's where you get with that. But there was nothing wrong with what we did. She was never an open dog. She was just. She was half blind. And that's all I said. That's something about. Couldn't hear. Is you do have to check. And it's the home. You are going to be hunting some of these. Yeah. Make sure the dog qualifies. You know. Where they qualify at.

28:48Because the longest time in Texas, you couldn't qualify an open dog. Yeah. And then, like, here in Oklahoma, you can't run an open dog. A dog's ran open. In Nobles. Yeah. An open ranch dog can.

29:03Yeah. And so, it depends on each organization is different. There's obviously some east that allow it. There's some west that allow it. I forgot. I was going to look this up before. And I don't have my phone to even look it up. To see what the NCA and the United States have with those things. Because they have specific rules. Yeah. They have to move up things as well. And. The problem has something with it. You're taking. You're doing training for people. You can't run. Yeah. Well, I hope you wouldn't. You know. I hope you wouldn't. Yeah. Yeah. There's.

29:33Spreading some bad habits. I'm all for anything to try to. To try to grow the sport. I mean. It. Yeah. And. To get people involved. That was one reason Larry. Came down to. Our. Liked to come to our trials. Is because we had such a big. Novice class. And we treated them. You know. We hung around. Yeah. We had 20. Almost 20 this last trial. Yeah. We had a reason to talk to them. Helped them. And. But. Yeah. A lot. A ton for us. Yeah. Literally it was like half the trial. But. I love it. What I wanted to get out with this. And. I wasn't trying to.

30:04Too bad of a picture at all. I think that it's actually really beneficial. To have a dog. One of your first dogs. Be a dog. That. Has some experience. As was doing a little bit. Yeah. Because you can learn. A whole lot. And be wrong a lot. And make a lot of mistakes. You can learn. And the dog isn't going to really. Punish you all that much for it. If you're messing up. Making mistakes. And this dog. Kind of green too. You just have a little bit of training. It becomes a lot to handle. In a really short amount of time. I think it's a. That's kind of what I want to. I want to talk about. Right. Right. I think it's helpful. Because it allows you.

30:34To start learning. Where you're supposed to be. In the rhythm of things. And it allows you to. But like. You just always feel lost. You have no idea. What right even looks like. Then it becomes. Really hard. To feel positive. Even. You know. Moments that you should be like. Oh this was a. Was a loss. You didn't win the trial. But we did make some progress here. It's hard to feel positive. In those moments. When you're like. I don't even know what I'm looking at. But to have a dog. That has some start. That started out a little bit. I think is a. A really helpful thing. You.

31:05Used to tell me this all the time. Because to me. Winning is winning. But you always said it. Now I see it. You go. Winning is relative. If you got a young dog. And you're just starting out. And you're at a trial. Look for the little silver lining. And you're not trying to. You know. Win every single trial. You go to. You're trying to. That's fine. I'm just trying to get an outrun today. Right. A good outrun. It's not Los Angeles. When I lose one point on you. It was a good outrun. You know. We did the drive day. Made all three panels. Those are successes to look at.

31:35Yeah. And this is. This is a sport. That's going to take place. Over. A decade of time. Essentially. Like if you're. You're committed to this dog. You're going to be with this dog. Trialing with it. Trading with it. For the next. Probably like decade or so. From. One to eleven or twelve. When they retire. Hopefully. If all goes well. And it's not about. Being the best. Two.

32:01It's about being the best. And being successful. All the way through. And have longevity. And have this dog. You can build this great relationship with. I think one of the things about this sport. Is that you can build. An incredible relationship. And rapport with a dog. And that's. A really special thing. And the other thing about this sport. I don't care who you are.

32:19It will humble you. Yeah. Because. Just like. You're working with. Three separate. I mean. Entities in this thing. Where there's. Super cattle. You know. There's stock. You. You've got the course. You've got the weather. I mean. All these. Elements that are. Kind of variables. If you say your dog. Won't do it. He'll do it. Like. He's never done it before. I mean. You know what I'm saying. Yeah. So. And the sheep will. Or the cattle. They got a mind of their own. And. You're trying to control all that. You got a mind. What you think.

32:49It's like. And it'll humble you. No matter what. I mean. You will be humbled. If you. Yeah. And. Kind of. Along that same line. Is. Along the lines. I said. Kind of. Of this decade. Progress. Of progress. It's not about like. Winning this trial. At the very beginning. In the obvious. Or winning. You know. Early on in ranch. Or whatever it is. It's about getting. Better. And setting yourself up. To be successful. Yeah. At the highest levels. And.

33:20I don't know. Personally. I feel like. I'm a pretty good example. Of that. Because. I never even came close. To winning an obvious trial. When I was actually trying. It was my dog. Okay. When I was five. And you were there with me. With the trained dog. I might have won one or two. But. T. Never even. Sniffed it. And then I went ahead. And moved up to ranch. It took a year. We weren't really that good. Maybe we shouldn't have been up there. And then. We just kind of. Found our way. Lucked in. Had a really good run at the very end. And won a trial. And then we. Just mump up again. We don't even try to win that. Dog of the year. And then.

33:52Open ranch. Win dog of the year. Kind of going away. And then we. Eventually end up winning our open dog of the year. And. This is a dog that couldn't win a novice. You know. Yeah. Didn't come close to winning a novice. But now. Five years down the line. It's the open dog of the year. Aslan never. Won a trial. I don't think. Placed in a trial. In ranch. He did one time. I beat him by a point. To win my first trial. Open ranch. He never won one. And it wasn't until we were in open. That we started winning a trial.

34:23So. You know. It is a process. And we tried to. I mean. Just tried to skip it last time. His car ran just nursery. And then open. And Woodrow. Literally just ran open. He never ran another class. But.

34:40I don't know the. Were you even in?

34:43Yeah. We'll go for broke. We'll move on. Before I was like. You know. Take him out there. And we didn't even.

34:49You know. It would have been October 2018. So they were really young.

34:55In October. Maybe it was like 2019. I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And 2020 happens. Yeah. I thought. Let's do.

35:08Let's do.

35:13Let's do. Let's do. I want to get better. Let's do. Let's do. Let's do. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. yeah I want to get better

35:44I want to compete at the highest levels yeah that's the goal that's what it is it's first like okay I want to win this class okay I want to win you know the next class I want to do that these trials locally and then it's like okay I did that now I want to go move up it's always like levels to where you want to compete and keep going so make sure you focus on that it's really helpful I think one other point I want to kind of make and then we'll kind of wrap up is I think when you're starting out

36:14kind of along the same lines finding the right first dog for you is a really important thing and probably a really hard thing for someone new to the sport so maybe the best dog may not be the best dog for you that make sense like this dog that's super talented out of these great bloodlines may not be the best one for someone just to start with he's got a lot of drive and go and maybe some dog that maybe a little softer at times maybe just isn't as you know fast or whatever I think might be a lot better for someone just starting out

36:44what do you think exactly exactly I think you somehow got unplugged or something yeah we lost you try again alright can you hear me now alright sounds like I'm good now I can hear you well yeah it's such a great way you said that there Ty

37:15with that it is sometimes the dogs you learn the most with aren't always the easiest dog sometimes they are you learn everything everything goes right sometimes your dog is going to not always you got to learn through the process and that's the thing it's always a process you're working for it yeah and be willing to take some lumps and I think there is a lot of benefit to getting a dog as a puppy and building that relationship from the beginning but there's also a lot of value in a dog that you can see what it does

37:47in a little bit so then maybe you're a little bit more prepared for yourself for what's coming yeah you know it may not be the best dog for you later but having a real slow dog that you can handle yeah that's the important part you got to handle thirst it is that's a great help yeah because especially when you're going to be using voice commands early on while you try to figure everything else out some dogs you just can't say stuff fast enough

38:18I know I whistle you know boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom sometimes and a lot to handle you know and so having a little slow dog a dog that might be more forgiving with the stock and not run through them and grab a hold and just have once to lie down sometimes yeah yeah and I think that's a great point and I think those are great points I think what you want a dog there's lots of ways to go back you can buy a fresh dog and go green on green you can go buy a started dog you can go buy a dog that's got

38:49gets trained up the open range level and has quite a bit of time on it and go buy a safe five star dog that's going out and around has a little bit of directions and outrun a little bit but you gotta build the rest of the way and that's a tough one too you don't know what you're doing yeah I would also recommend always maybe get a you have someone a second opinion or a trainer or somebody you're close with