S3, Ep.2- (The Return of) 6-time National Champion Lyle East

0:00Hello and welcome to BarrettMountainBC.com, Stock Dog Philosophies Podcast. I'm your host, Ty Spanky Barrett, and joining me, as always, is Justin Barrett, and a very special guest, again, kind of, Lylee's! For the second, second, second time, second take, second take, take two, take two. We're going to try it out last time, I messed up on a button on my board, but we're going to go this time. So, we're going to try not to do just the exact same podcast as last time.

0:31I have some new questions, just to kind of stay fresh for ourselves, but we're recording this time from, I mean, right, Serendipity's Stock Dog School, basically, right here. Tell us a little bit about that, because I've always had no idea exactly what it is, but... Well, the name Serendipity comes from when we bought the farm. We, uh, we were looking for a place, and I just, I grew up just half a mile down the road. So, this would come available, and it was better than we expected. So, that's Serendipity.

1:03Okay. That's where the name came from. And then I've carried it through with the Stock Dog School. So, yeah, it started out as just a training, where I trained, and now it's, uh, I actually have a... program that, uh, involves youth, and, well, youth and novice handlers, and, uh, it's a video-driven-based program that, uh, where we do, uh, training, and, uh, teach.

1:34So... It's like I've seen, I know whenever we came to the Stalia State Fair, we saw some, I think, the people you had, and they had really nice dogs, and were doing really well. They're coming along. I mean, you know, it just takes a lot of time. It's like anything else. I see. And, too, it's what you put into it. Yeah. Obviously, I have some students that put a lot into it, and have some that... I'm a teacher, so I know that all too well. Yeah, I bet you do. Holy smoke, yes. So, uh, what can I focus more on handling this time?

2:06So, with some of your students, and maybe just yourself, what are some, some, uh, thoughts that you share with them before they, like, run their first trial, or before they go to the post, or whatever that may be? Well, you know, you always try to stress, just, just, your first trial, your nerves, oh my goodness, they're just through the roof, you know, have anxiety, you're sick, or whatever, you know? And, uh, yeah, and I remember those days, too, but, uh, uh, I always try to stress to them, you know, just, just pretend you're at home.

2:40Just pretend you're at home. Yeah. Um, it's, it's hard, it's hard to get there, though, when you walk out on that, it's, everybody's looking at you, and you feel like everybody's looking at you, and you feel like everybody's critiquing you from the sidelines, you know? And truthfully, we're not, but it's, um, anyway. Yeah, so most of the time, like, after run, people, like, newer people look like, what'd you think? I have no idea. I go, whoa, run looked really good.

3:10And that pin looked really nice. The rest of it, I just got busy talking to somebody else. You know, I just, I just get distracted. I can only focus for so long. Well, you know, I mean, yeah, so after so many runs, you get, you know, you just lose, lose track, and you're visiting with other people, and you just move. Yeah. Thinking about other things. Yeah. I always think the great point to say, even new people's like, whatever you think you did wrong, or what went bad, someone else has done before. Oh, yeah. And worse, I can tell you. Yeah. I don't, I've never started, I've never, I've never, not that I've never started, I've

3:44never had a young dog yet, truthfully, one that, just start, just starting out trialing or whatever, that I haven't had to go up the field and get. Yeah. I've made that walk of my shame many a time. You think about the number of dogs I've put to the post in my time, you know, and there's a lot of people that put a lot more dogs than I have, but, and they probably have better success than I have, too. But anyway, you know, when you think about that, it's nothing to me.

4:16I'm not, it's nothing to be ashamed of. It's just how it is. I mean, all young dogs got to start somewhere. Yeah. And, you know, when you're training them here at home, even, when you think about that, you know, they can look, look good. And, say, we call it the west lot out here, it's three or four acres, whatever it is. And, you know, you know, they can all look real good out there. Yeah. But if you want to change a dog, just take him a quarter mile down the road. All I got to do is go out the driveway, head down the road west or east either one, and take him to a different place.

4:47And I guarantee you, it's a whole different ballgame there. Yeah, definitely. The first few times out, it's pretty rough sometimes, you know. Yeah. And I think, honestly, one of the things I've mentioned before on our podcast is, I think sometimes it's harder for the second dog, because you feel like you've already got past all this stuff. That was with a different dog. And so, it's hard, like, to get yourself to go back, do these same things, do the first time. I've seen several young handlers come along with a really, really, really nice young dog, to the point they didn't even know what they had.

5:21They just thought they were all that away, and then come along with the second one and really stumble, you know. So, it happened. Yep.

5:30You're leading the show. You said you had new questions. Okay. So, what about, like, you specifically? You're going out there for, you know, a bigger trial. You've traveled quite a bit. What are some thoughts that you have as you're about to get ready, you know, as you're going to the post? Like, what's running through your head?

5:47Oh, as I'm going through the post?

5:51Or even just, like, while you're there at the post in the run, like, what are some things you're going to focus on? I mean, you're always, you know, you're always thinking about, well, ahead of time, you know, you think you've got a game plan going. And, like, okay, I know I've watched a few runs here or whatever, and, you know, you were allowed to if you weren't first up, I guess. But, anyway, you have a few runs, and you think, well, okay, they're pulling to this, you know, they're pulls here. And so, obviously, you're thinking about, well, I'll keep my dog on that side and those

6:23kind of things, you know, just trying to stay ahead of the game. But the problem is, most of the time, it never works that way for me. It's just, if you go out there and stumble and do the best you can, you know, because sure as the world, as I get the bank and they're going to go one direction, they'll go with the other, you know. But, yeah.

6:43It's just kind of playing, you're always, you're always just kind of, if you can't, oh, uh, if you can't, uh, if you're not willing to, or not able to adjust on the fly, this is not a game for you.

7:11This is where my, I go out there with a plan. It's really like, just outrun. If we do the outrun, I'll figure out the rest of the way. We'll wing it the rest of the way. We'll wing it the rest of the way. 12%. Let's talk about that in just a minute, you know, and talk about your outrun and stuff, you know. And I heard, uh, a guy told me one years and years and years ago, he said, you know, he said, do your homework at home. And he said, then come to the trial and have fun. And, and I've always kind of taken that with me, uh, to try to have my dogs prepared for

7:41whatever was up against me, uh, or whatever I was fixing to go to. And, and, you know, uh, you know, like for instance, for me. Meeker's hard to prepare for, uh, because it's, it's, you're at whatever it is, 70, some hundred, 7,000 feet.

8:03And, you know, it's, it can be hot in the afternoon. It can be really cool of a morning and really hot in the afternoon. And then you can have a thundershower show up and then, uh, you know, those, those sheep are just tricky. So a little funny story real quick. So the very first year I was there, uh, Dorrance, I can't was, he actually encouraged me to come and, and, uh, and I thank him for it now at the time I thought, man, this is, that's

8:35way out of my league and it probably is still, it's still probably out of my league, but, um, uh, anyway, I got there and my dog made it to the top and it was Chip, so it was, he made it to the top. He, he started on the fetch and of course they get to those first set of fetch panels and they think it's a cattle guard and so they're fighting to get, and we fought and fought and fought and we finally got them through and all, when they broke through that, I'm not kidding

9:09you, I had never seen a Western Range U in my life and they come through that panel, I mean, a hundred mile an hour and they just were running for all they was worth and they were coming straight at me and I got about halfway to me from, they got halfway between the fetch panels and me and I look up and I go, holy smoke, them things are big. I hope they stop when they get here and they did because I'm not kidding you, they just were a hundred mile an hour and they look up and they saw the crowd and the flags and

9:42everything and they just, they just put on the brakes and come to a dead stop and it's like, move me now. But I tell everybody I'm, I'm not real smart because I've been beat up at meek or more times than you can imagine and I still want to go back every year, can't wait to get back, so there's something wrong with me, I think. I can look for some redemption at some point. Yeah, I'm eventually above it, you know, I like it. You do pretty good in what year that was, a few years back.

10:17I was fourth with Mo one year and that was, I was real happy with, you know, just to get to the finals was, was an interesting, I mean that was just something that I couldn't get to. Wow. Wow, yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone takes the punishment this court for sure. Oh yeah. For sure. So, kind of the week leading up for a trial, you kind of mentioned, you know, do your homework at home. What are some things maybe a week or two before that you do like to prepare specifically

10:49for a trial? I know we, we could talk about it before for us that generally we don't work like for a trial until maybe kind of the week of, we try to maybe do a couple of things we think that might be beneficial for that field or that setup. Yeah. So, years ago when I started, I started in the cattle dog world, that's where I started. Years ago I would, I mean we worked all week long, we had a lot of cattle here, we ran a lot of cattle, we backgrounded a lot of steers and stuff and we, so it was not hard to get

11:22prepared. Yeah. But I don't have hardly any cattle left and sheep's a whole different species, so I've got several sheep now but, you know, it's, I don't, I don't, I don't move them every day or, you know. Yeah. So, but what I'll do is I'll, you know, if I know kind of how big the outrun's going to be, well I'll go somewhere and make that happen, you know, and we usually have a, I

11:54mean I got another place over here where we get a 600 yard outrun, you know, on that way and it's, it's got some terrain to it and stuff and we'll kind of, and I, I'm big on, I never send from the same place twice, so that's kind of how I practice, is I may, you know, I'll send east-west today and tomorrow north-south, get a different look, your dog has a different

12:27look, try to, try to mix it up and not pattern, pattern my sheep and dogs and so on and so forth, so that they can figure it out either, but you can't always get that done either, but anyway, it's, that's some things that I do to get ready, is just kind of, and you know, we can, you know, if you, if there's a double lift involved now, I don't practice the double lift right before I leave, because I've seen dogs, I've not had one do it yet, yet, but I've

13:03seen dogs that would, you know, they'd get to the first set of fetch panels and they'd give them a hard, hard flank like we all do to, and they would just take the flank and look back and, you know, go back for the second set, so I'll practice that, you know, if I think there's going to be, if I know there's going to be one, you know, and I want to practice that, I'll practice that, you know, like several weeks ahead, just make sure the dog's good, and then, you know, because you, you got to get through the preliminary rounds to get to a double lift even, so.

13:34Yeah. Anyway, it's, so. And then, for starting dogs, I know you mentioned when we talked last time, uh, with getting them from, you know, from their mom soon after and all of that, will you just go over that again of your. Oh, yeah. So, in my opinion, simply my opinion, uh, when we're starting pups, we make a great mistake, uh, because we get a cute little puppy that's weaned, and we take him home, and we just let

14:11him go, we don't, we don't do much with him until he gets up big enough to start chasing stock, and then, you know, we kind of start working on him a little bit, but, in my opinion, and this is what we teach in our video school, uh, if we will take over, right, where the mama dog left all.

14:33We have a lot, dog that's a lot easier to train, uh, takes a lot of that, takes a lot of that garbage out of, do we have to go through. Um, so, we'll take a little pup, and I'll bring him home, and as soon as he's settled here, then I'll start, I'll teach him to tie to a fence, I'll teach him to lead, and then just slowly, I'll lead him out of the kennel, and out to tie, and I'll lead him back, and then, you know, we have, then they're allowed, I mean, we get them out every day and walk them

15:07and all that, so they get plenty of exercise, but, uh, you know, one of the things that I've always encouraged people to do was, on these young dogs, I think we see a lot of young dogs that are overworked, in my opinion, so the way to keep from doing that is one minute for every month old they are, is plenty of time to work for a day, you know, say, I wouldn't, I wouldn't even encourage doing that, you know, like, seven days a week for sure, I, you know, three, three, four days a week is plenty, in my opinion, just take it easy on these young

15:41dogs, because, I mean, they can only take so much in, their, their, their brain's just not geared, it's just like a little kid, their, their brain's just not geared, just keep cramming it in, cramming it in, cramming it in, just take your time with them, if you do it that away, a little bit along every day, every week, whatever, um, just a few minutes, it doesn't take much of your time, and yet you get, the end result is, when you get ready to go to stock, you've got a dog that minds real well, yeah, so, to me, that's, that's

16:14really important, yeah, that's definitely an issue that I've seen, because I've started doing training for other people, some of these dogs early on, it's a challenge just to, like, get through their head, to listen again, and mind, so, yeah. Well, and, you know, for me, um, I don't take a lot of outside dogs anymore, but I, I still do take a few, but, uh, and I kind of grade them, to be honest about it, to, to see, you know, okay, he's not far enough along, I really don't want to put with him, but, uh, you know,

16:47I've been at it a long time, too, but, um, you know, some of those dogs are just, you bring them in, or they come in here, they've not had anything much done to them, here they are a year old, and the, the owner is expecting great things in 30 days, well, you haven't done anything with him, so, about all you're going to get in my house in 30 days is just a dog that'll mind, you know, he'll go to stock, yeah, but, you know, he's, he's going

17:21to have to have some manners on him, or you're not going to have any, yeah, a dog that doesn't have manners, you, I won't take it to the, when I go to do a real job, you know, I won't take it, so, you're, you're just kidding yourself, you get something hurt, them hurt, cattle hurt, sheep hurt, something, so. So, obviously used to work a lot, a lot of cattle before, um, you've done sheep a lot more recently, how did you always, kind of, start dogs, did you always start on sheep

17:51before with the, even doing calves, or how far along did you make that sway? That's, you know, just in starting a dog. So, you'll laugh when I say this, but that's all, I've been laughed at before. I used to use pigs, that's how I started dogs, and that's what I was known for, for a long time, I haven't used any in, in a few years now, but, uh, I always used pigs, and I liked them really well, uh, take three pigs and turn them out, and we could get out here, go

18:25there's 30 some acres out here east of the house, we could get out there in the middle of that field, you know, and then pigs would stand there, until that dog got there, that's what I, one of the main things I liked about them, and then, you had to have a dog, had to have a dog smart enough to hold them together, because they didn't necessarily just munt, they didn't flock up like it was deep, you know, uh, I've always had trouble with sheep, you know, you get so broke, you know, uh, and I don't anymore, I've got enough sheep to keep fresh ones here all the time, but, man, the minute, the minute, the awaited me

18:58or come back, come out of your mouth, there he is down there, let's run to him, we're just running to him, and the dog would get up there a little ways to look in, there wasn't no sheep around, and look back behind them, and here they come, you know, oh, here they are, you know, never finish a blunt, you know, bad habits, in my opinion, so, but, uh, taught those dogs to cut across, you know, on the top end, and stuff, but the pigs would just stand there, until the dog got there, and then say, well, move me now, well, if they'd walk in on them, they'd move, you know, but, uh, so that was how I originally started

19:34with training, training my young dogs with, with pigs, uh, but then, last few years, I haven't had, haven't kept any pigs around for a few years now, and so, I've had, I went to sheep, and then, you know, later on, is if, you know, we wanted, we wanted a dog to work cattle and sheep both, but then we'd, uh, move them over to sheep, or to cattle, and, yeah, no, definitely, don't want to get them on cattle too soon, until you have some

20:07good control, that's what I was kind of like, I don't want to get in there with calves, wild dog, not the best recipe for success, for myself, or anything else, you're likely to get yourself hurt more, Ty, yeah, or the dog gets itself hurt, like, they don't respect themselves, yeah, it's always trouble, too, uh, do you have any other questions? Okay, we can keep going here, um, so, again, what, what kind of brought you from sheep to,

20:38we talked about this last time a little bit, what brought you to sheep from cattle, what made you, want to make that change from working a bunch of cattle to more sheep trials? Well, I, I won the, I won the national finals, you just won it too many times, so you needed a new challenge, no, I'd like to have that problem with you, Justin, I had won the national finals, I think twice, and then I decided that I wanted to, to, uh, try the sheep, you know,

21:10and, and really not, not, I, I kind of dabbled in it, you know, with, Thad had a trial, Knox has had a trial, and, you know, just kind of a few around here, but it never really put any real effort into it, you know, to really try it, so I thought, well, that'd be kind of fun to try that, and so I, uh, started, and I don't know, the more I got into it, the more I was addicted to it, simply from the fact that, uh, you know, you, you could set cattle out on the other end, and I'd watch two runs, and I'd tell you about what them cattle's

21:42going to do, you know, and you can set two runs down there as sheep, and I can watch them and go, hmm, well, I think they might, you know, and because I'd been around cattle long, and, and when I was a kid, I was the dog, so I had to learn to read that deal, you know, I mean, I read where they were going and how they were going to act, and I, you know, I just, it just worked pretty easy for me, but, uh, this sheep deal. It's a whole different ballgame for me. Uh.

22:12Yeah, of course, a lot more out of you, out of the dogs, they move so much quicker, you get to have some fast, high-level thinking. Well, and I've always said this, too, and, and I, it's very true, I think, I think, personally, you know, cattle are way more forgiving than sheep ever are. Yeah. Um, if you're off an inch, you might as well be off a mile with your sheep, but cattle, you can be off quite a bit. So, your dog can be off quite a bit. Yeah, and still, and still, you know, and still, you know, make, make the panels, you

22:44know.

22:45So, it's, it's just a different, it's just different. Uh. Um, as far as liking one over the other, I, I enjoy probably the sheep trials more than I do the cattle dog trials anymore. I don't hardly go anymore to the cattle dog trials. I go occasionally. And I still enjoy them. Um, but I just don't have the desire anymore to go like I used to.

23:10So, what was a, uh, a moment in your trialing, training, handling, whatever career you want to call it here, where you, like, felt like you finally, you know, arrived, finally knew what you were doing a little bit. I kind of know what mine was. I had, I had been, like, terrible with my dog, T. Like, we had just done awful every time. We, like, a ranch trial at Tom and Roos. I did okay the first day, but it wasn't pretty at all. Like, we got through the course.

23:40I was like, well, it's my first dog. And I was like, maybe she's just not a trial dog, because we're so great at home, and then we just suck everywhere we go. And then, uh, the next day, like, the most points you could score was a 70. Yeah. Okay. And he had lost, like, four points. So, I could only lose, like, two points and win the thing. I scored a 69. It was, like, an almost perfect run. And then I was like, okay. And from that point on, like, I had good success with her. My next dog followed up. Did it really well. So, what was a moment you had where you're like, okay, I do know what I'm doing.

24:13My dogs can work. You know what I mean? So, and I started trialing. I, I dairied for 24 years. And we used dogs. I've had dogs since 1985, so I've had them four years, 40 years. But, uh, and used them. But, uh, in 2007, we sold the dairy cows. And I started trialing in 2008. And I went to my first catalog finals in 2009. And was, I mean, I didn't know any of these guys.

24:52And I, the guys that were running, I didn't know any of them. I was just kind of the outsider.

24:58Had two nursery dogs that year. Wound up third and fourth. And was, you know, and so that was kind of the, I can do this. You know, uh, and then in 2012, I won the nursery with a dog named Liz. It was owned by Mike and Landon Miner out of, uh, Oklahoma. And then, uh, there's kind of a funny story behind, uh, uh, my wins.

25:30So, I've won the national finals six times. I've been reserved twice. Yes.

25:37And I think only three of those wins were with dogs I actually owned.

25:44So, but it was quite a stretch there before I finally won with my own dog. In 2012, I believe it was, I won with Liz. In 2016, I won with Landon Miners Max, which was Max. Max was a pup I bought from Gary Westbrook. And trained and then sold to Landon. And I had a dog get hurt that year. And so, I called Landon and, I think I, yeah, I called Landon or he called me one and he, I said, hey, you know, Mo's hurt.

26:20He's not going to get to run. He said, well, run my dog. I said, well, okay. So, I had like six, eight weeks to get him ready. And so, I did and I actually, and then I won. That would have been, I think, I think that was 16. And then, in 2018, I won with Chip, was reserved with Mo, and then I won. I finally won one with my own dog, which was Bess, a young dog. She won the nursery that same year.

26:52I was all in cattle. So, and then, in 2019, I was first back-to-back champion with the dog. I think it's been done since that, but I was the first one, you know, because I won with Chip then in 19, and I won, and I won in 23, I think it was, with Cash, who I, who I own. So, not many of them of my own. I'm not a very good dog.

27:23I'm not very good at picking dogs, I guess, for myself. You're good at getting them, though. Second time around, you're good with it. So, how difficult was it? You said you got the max dog, like, six, eight weeks before the finals. How difficult was it to get adjusted and back on, like, to learn the dog again in a short time? Oh, I mean, there was challenges, but not really that bad. But I had started him, and I had actually, I trained him, started him, and ran him for a while, and so he and I had had a prior relationship.

27:59Yes, relationship. And... He was on your whistles already, probably? Yeah. Yeah. So, that helped, too. That's what, uh, last year, he got, my dad, he, uh, messed up his knee on, like, Monday or Tuesday, and there was a cattle trial, and, in our town, so it was close by us, we were going on, like, on Saturday, Sunday. And so, he already paid for tater, already in it, you know. Can you run tater for me? I guess. He didn't have the exact same whistles we didn't have.

28:32My dog works a lot differently than his, and so I was, like, he came to me after the run, I was, like, why were you blowing that whistle? I didn't have that. I was, like, I know, but I realized that about halfway through, that wasn't, that wasn't his whistle. So, I can tell you a funny one, though, about, about whistles. So, A.J. Milner, good friend of mine out of Arkansas, he's an older gentleman, and he had a dog, and he had qualified to go to the finals, well, then he found out his wife had cancer, and so he said, I can't go. He said, I really wanted my dog to go.

29:03He said, would you run my dog? It's a nursery dog that year. And I said, yeah, I will. And so, he said, well, he won't outrun to the left, so you gotta send him right. And his whistles were just exactly backwards of mine.

29:21So, I, I took him, I had quite a bit of time, I mean, I don't know how much time, like, three months or something to get him, get with him, you know, before we had to go. Well, I knew I couldn't change the whistles, because I'm, I knew, if I was having, if he was having trouble outrunning anyway, I knew I couldn't change the whistles and, and, and make the outrun. So, I didn't worry about changing the whistles, I thought, well, surely I can do that.

29:51So, uh, I worked on his outrun, got it, where he'd run either direction, that way I could choose when I got there which way I wanted him to go. So, I sent him, got up there, and I, and I, you know, I kept thinking, and I had run him some, and used him a lot here at home. And, got, got down there and got in a tight spot, and I reverted right back to my dogs, and he was taking every, he'd about a, he'd take only about every other one anyway.

30:28I got down there and got in a tight spot, and he started, I, I got, I just switched back to my dogs, and then I got so confused it wasn't funny. And he was taking every one of them, just like clockwork. And so, it was, uh, it was interesting. Yeah. No, it was definitely interesting for me, too, because I don't, I don't really work cattle. So, I was, like, a big disadvantage there in both ways. He didn't know where he was, one of the cattle, you know, he didn't know where to put the dog in, didn't know where the cattle had to make them just come on down.

30:58Yeah. And so, it was. I kind of just had one dog, too, that I've really been, there's two dogs, but they're fairly similar. And so, to work a dog, like, tater is totally different, like, stylistically than what my dog is. Is that. I'm asking a lot more. I'm a race tater. Yeah. Yeah. That was working out instead of my red dog. Yeah.

31:17So, uh, since we're here, I know, I know you have to have it with you. We'd like to do this with our guests. So, we're going to grab your whistle for us. Okay. We're going to give a couple of demos here. I'd like to give Justin a hard time while we do this team stuff. I'll tease him about his while you'll grab yours, and, uh. Hey, little. We're talking here for a second, you'll grab your whistles.

31:36We'd just like to. Yeah. That's okay. We'll turn it down on here. Turn it down on the other thing.

31:47Yeah. Tater was just looking at him like. I don't know what you're doing. I'll kind of, like, my red dog, she'll, if I, like, lie her down, it's hard to get her to come back up. She slows down. So, like, I'll blow, like, my there, and kind of, like, walk up in the same whistle and turn her in so she stays moving. I just, out of habit, did that. He's like, what the hell are you doing? I'm just like, you know, like, how are you asking? That's the thing. I'm like. Like, so, years ago, Vic Rowe and I had, he had a dog. It's a pretty nice dog.

32:17And, but, so, I trained it and was running it for him. And then he decided he wanted to run it a while, so he would take a look. He is, he'd come up in the rodeo world where everything was, you know, run hard, fast, and go, you know, and all this, you know. Well, I'd get him all slowed down, and he'd let him just run loose, you know, or just go in there and pick bites and stuff. And, so, anyway, he, I was going to tell now, something about that, something about, yeah, I don't remember that.

32:58It's okay, you're getting old. It's okay, I am getting old.

33:08But, so, you've got one of the, the old plastic whistles, and my dad still rocks those. I, so, here's why. I, for one thing, I've been known to break a few in my, in my day. From biting on them. I've also wore holes in them, where my teeth, I, I carry them around in my teeth all day long, so I've wore holes in them. Yeah. So, you know, but, and I know the metal ones you couldn't do that with, but, um, I, I don't like the taste.

33:41That's what he says, too. They leave a, a funny taste in, or kind of a, I don't know what it is, but, and I can't deal with it. So, I've never switched. And, and, well, so, I was, oh, we were headed to Meeker here a few years ago, and I went off and forgot my whistle, because I've always got one that, you know, I'm, I'm, I like, you know, and the, the dogs are kind of used to, because there'd be a little difference between them, that won't be a lot, but a little bit.

34:13Got about halfway in Meeker and figured out I didn't have a whistle. Yeah, well, what a trial to forget it. Yeah, no doubt. So, anyway, uh, so I come home from Meeker, and I thought, okay, I can put an end to this. I'll just start, I'll figure out how to finger whistle. So, I've started practicing, and it got to where I could kind of, you know, do it. So, I thought, well, I'll start changing these dogs over to my finger whistle.

34:45I didn't realize I got horseback one day, and I had reins in one hand and something else in the other, and I'm like, well, this ain't going to work. So, I grabbed a whistle, went back to the whistle. Well, I've never been, never went back since. That's what we kind of, like, initially learned on those. Justin had one of those for the longest time. And then, you can come sit over here, I'll just move it over for you. You're good. Um, and so, I was, like, 20 in college, and I could kind of barely blow that one.

35:17I couldn't make consistent sounds at all. And then, I went down and farm sat for Susan Bennett for a little while and said, there's a thank you. She got me, like, one of the nice Logan whistles. Oh, yeah. And then, as soon as I got it, I could blow it perfectly. It was way easier than the other ones. Like, screw this. And then, Justin was, saw that. He's like, I'm going to get me one of those, too. Since it got a little Christmas, I was like, let's try it. So, Justin switched over. And then, uh, we both, he has one of each, actually. Oh, yeah. His older dog, he did the plastic one, but. Yeah, the Merge Dog Spice is all in the plastic, and she'll kind of take the Logan medal, but it's, like, it's not quite the same for the sounds of it, but it's, like, she, I can see her, like, she's a little more hesitant with it.

35:55Like, she's not, it's just not quite. I tried several different, you know, uh, of the different type whistles, but. You got your favorite. I just can't, I just can't, I just can't deal with that. Yeah, I get it. A funny story. At the cattle trial, I seen you with two whistles. I asked you one time why you had two, and you go, because one of them will stop. I never had that happen. I always just carried one whistle, never had a problem. I wasn't home two weeks after that, and I did that piece of grass and a whistle, and I didn't have a spare.

36:30So, now, I carry two. You carry two. Yeah. But it was. I had to learn my lesson the hard way on that. So, we were in Illinois, and it was funny, because Bob Salmon was the, was judging up there. That was, it's been several years ago now. And, boy, I mean, good run going, really nice outrun, fetch was great, got right to the post, and I went to blow my whistle, and there was nothing there.

37:03Just nothing. I mean, just not a peep. And I thought, what the world's wrong with this thing? So, I got to looking and pulled it out of my mouth. So, I'm trying to look at this whistle and get these sheep on around the post here. So, I start off, and they come around the post. Well, then, they just took off barreling it. Well, I'm trying to watch them, trying to do that, and I'm reaching into my pocket to get my pocket knife out so I can clean that out.

37:34Well, I got my pocket knife out, and I'm watching. Well, pretty soon, I look up, and the sheep are coming back to me. And so, I'm a-digging on this whistle for all I'm worth, and I can't get it, still can't get it to blow, still can't get it to blow. And something, I'd ate something, I guess, because it got down in there and got in the hole, and it wouldn't come out for nothing. I finally took it over, and we washed it out, cleaned it out, and got it where I could use it again, but, yeah.

38:03It's going to just have an easier to back up, when it comes down. It is. Lots. I don't know if Lyle jinxed me, or if that was just, now I carry two.

38:16Yeah. I carry two. I got, like, the first one Susan had, gave me, it's a red one. I used it for a while, and, like, the last year or so, I bought another one. I was like, well, I'll use that one, you know, for trials, whatever is nice. It's in there, touches. I did it the first time, it didn't go well. I don't know, I just got the new one for show, I guess, because I don't use it at all. Blow the old one every time. Yeah. I think I- Like, I use the Boulder Bluff, the plastic one, and I enjoy them. The reason why I switched this is because I like the sound of the Logans.

38:46The his was a little more crisper, and it felt like it kind of carried a little bit. It's the only reason why I switched, like, I can still use the plastic whistle just fine. Yeah. I have it in my backpack whenever we go to trials, just in case if somehow I forget my other ones. It's like, I have a back, I have a third one always available to me. Yep. So, we'll let you go through here in just a second, just kind of your commands, and each whistle that goes with it. Before we get started, I want to just preface again that me and my dad can blow pretty much the same whistles. Slight variations.

39:17Justin's are nowhere near ours. I don't know how. He says he picked them up for my dad, but- Yeah, but I've made my own decisions, so- That's why he asked me and not Justin to run Tater, because at least mine are kind of close, so he can run my dog perfectly. It's true. They're different. I've never made up my own mind. This is what he's doing. Not even close. And we did this test together, one of the first episodes we recorded. Justin, give me your come by. Give me your away. He blew like seven different whistles. Not a single one was the same.

39:48No one of the dogs didn't know what happened. No one of the dogs are confused. Hopefully, you can blow the same whistle twice. That's what we're looking for right here. Well, so, years ago, the first time I went to the finals, which would have been in 2009,

40:08it was a sheepdog finals in 2009, and we figured out that, well, some of my whistles are really close. Yeah. And they, we figured out that, I don't remember, Lois filmed it, and I had two whistles that were too close.

40:28It was too hard. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, when Ty had Justin do that, Justin goes, well, this whistle is just like my dad. He blows it, and we're going, that is not like my dad. What? It was based off of it. It was your dad. It was a name of my dad. Yeah. Part of this podcast, we just like to make fun of Justin. How do you get through a little bit? So, let's hear a little bit. So, if you can see here how different everybody's whistles can be. So, I'll give you a down first.

40:59It's just a long blast.

41:03And, now, my dogs don't down very often. I don't ask them to down very often. I give them a walk up a lot, and, or a there. And, turn there, for me, is not a stop. It's a turn in and start forward. And then I'll tell you what to do from there. So, a walk up is, it's a little different. So, it's a beep beep with a little different tone. Then, go from there. I'll do a right flank.

41:33And a left flank.

41:37So, it's, one goes one way and one goes the other. Then, I don't know what else. Right flank there. Do you have a there whistle? Well, not really. What it is on the there, it's just a, it's a, it's a shortened version of the down whistle. Honestly, yours are really, really similar to what ours are. Just to listen to them more. Yeah, and they'll, and then give them a walk up and let them walk on you.

42:08All right, we'll give you the quick test right here. Give me three right flank whistles in a row here. See if they sound the same.

42:15Yep, better than Justin. There we go. Better than Justin. Better than Justin. That's all we need. That's all we need. You guys drove a long ways for that.

42:26He didn't tell me about this, for instance. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, he's coming along for ice cream, didn't he? Here's cake afterwards. Here's cake afterwards. Dad might be heading over there right now. So, I don't know. But, kind of to finish up here, we did just, you know, all come from the celebration of life. The great Larry Moore, do you have a, just a quick favorite memory or favorite story with Larry? One of my favorites was, we were at, I think it was the Land of Lincoln trial a couple years ago.

42:58It started to storm the afternoon.

43:01And Larry was running. Lightning, like, I would have been really close. Everybody looked around together like, oh no. Look at the guy with the metal leg. He's in the middle of the field.

43:13He's in the middle of the field. He's sort of running out there trying to grab Larry, just, you know, get him off the field as quick as we could.

43:19So, you know, I've known Larry a long time. I got acquainted with him. Him and Thad showed up at the house.

43:29Or showed up at the dairy. Thad was hunting a dog. And just a farm dog back then. I don't even know when that was. So, it was before 07. So, we were still Darien. But, anyway. And got acquainted with him there. And then we started working dogs together in one thing or another. So, we've, I've, you know, I've traveled with him some. Larry always had a story for you. Always gets you, keep you entertained, you know. Nobody more entertained.

43:59I don't care what town you went in. He knew everybody there most of the time. Pretty much.

44:07Yeah. You got something to finish off with? Yeah. Something to finish. We did a, one of these with Larry. And it was funny. He was saying, I don't want to do it. No, I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. When Ty starts setting the stuff up. And he starts off telling stories. We ain't even got it set up yet. And he's already off and running. And it went for over an hour. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what, honestly, it's kind of cool that I didn't think about it at all. We recorded that, like, almost a year ago.

44:37He had no idea. And he talked about it. And he didn't even, he didn't tell Jan about it at all. It's really kind of a cool thing that, like, it got posted. Somebody else posted it on Facebook on his page. And so she got to go, like, listen to him tell stories again for an hour, you know. Had no idea it existed. So it's kind of a cool thing. Yeah. But, well, thank you, Lyle, so much for being on the show. Thank you. Again, it's been great. Thank you, guys. Be sure to check out baremountainbc.com and our YouTube page. And serendipitystockstock.com. And we can get touched into your video series.

45:09So it's Serendipity Youth Stock Dog Academy is the name of it. Okay. Or it'll come up under my name. Okay. Sweet. Yeah, Lyle, either one. All right. Go check it out. All right. Thanks a lot.