Bohuslav Martinu Symphony No. 1

Welcome and Season Preview

0:00Hello, and welcome to Sticky Notes, the classical music podcast. My name is Joshua Weilerstein. I'm a conductor, and I'm the music director of the Orchestre National de Lille and the chief conductor of the Allborg Symphony. This podcast is for anyone who loves classical music, works in the field, or is just getting ready to dive into this amazing world of incredible music. Before we get started, I want to thank all of my Patreon sponsors for making Season 10 possible. If you'd like to

0:31support the show, please head over to patreon.com slash sticky notes podcast. And if you are a fan of the show, please take a moment to give us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It is greatly appreciated. I am currently in preparation for the new season. We are going to be starting in Lille with the Orchestre National de Lille at the end of August with two wonderful programs in La Chèse-Dieu, which is an incredible cathedral. I really encourage you to look it up in the

1:05south-central part of France. Two different programs featuring some of the great romantic symphonies like Schumann's Second and Brahms' First. Really, really, really excited for those two programs. For today's episode, I've got another Patreon-sponsored episode by Perkisson Bonnet of Martin New's First Symphony. And as I will mention in the show, Martin New is one of my favorite of the underrated composers. And I also wanted to just make one more plug for my Patreon page because this episode, as I said, was sponsored on Patreon, which you can do if you sign up at

1:39patreon.com slash sticky notes podcast, where we are also doing a long-running series now of 21 episodes on Schubert's unbelievable song cycle, Die Schöne-Müllerin. It has been a pleasure to be doing that cycle with everybody on the community there, talking about recordings and everything like that. So I really do encourage you to check it out. And in the meantime, Martin New's First Symphony. I really hope you enjoy it.

Martinu arrives in America

2:05It took a lot to make the composer and critic Virgil Thompson happy. He was famous for savaging new works he didn't like. And the truth is, he didn't really like very many new works at all. One exception was Boislav Martin New's Very First Symphony, written in 1942. Thompson said this, quote, The Martin New Symphony is a beaut. It is wholly lovely and doesn't sound like anything else.

2:36The story of how this symphony came to be is as fascinating as the music itself, and is also perfectly in keeping with the relentless curiosity of Martin New as a composer. Martin New, a prolific composer who wrote nearly 400 works, had just arrived in the U.S. in 1941 as a refugee from war-torn Czechoslovakia. He was 51 years old and had never written a symphony before. This delay wasn't a case of crushing self-doubt like in the case of Brahms. It was

3:06actually a seeming lack of interest in the symphonic genre, which was not unusual at the time. But in 1942, Martin New sent a letter to Serge Kuzovitsky, the music director of the Boston Symphony Orchestra, and a friend to the dozens of refugee composers who had arrived from Europe during the early days of World War II. Kuzovitsky commissioned Martin New to write a large-scale work, and Martin New responded with his first symphony, a perfect welcome to his new home and to the grand adventure Martin New was setting off in, in a new country that he found intimidating, exciting,

3:40and full of opportunity. The result of this first symphony is a piece of remarkable contrast, energy, light, boisterousness, and hope, considering the situation in his homeland. As the sponsor of this episode, Pierre Cassandbonnet, said, the symphony is, quote, a pool of energy that makes me feel optimistic, even at my most lower points. We'll start today with a quick overview of Martin New's life and work, since he might not be the most familiar composer to you, and then we'll talk our way through this incredible first symphony.

4:14Martin New has always been one of my favorites of the, quote, underrated composers, so it's a thrill to get to talk to you about him today. All this and more is coming right up on Sikki Notes.

Early life and Paris avant-garde

4:40Martin New was born in 1890 in a church bell tower in modern-day Chechia. He was a precocious talent, with an apparent ability to memorize huge amounts of music with ease. He was a terrific violinist, and was a full-time member of the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra for a short period, which allowed him to meet conductors who could promote all of the music Martin New was writing. He also studied under one of the great Czech composers, Joseph Suk, who encouraged Martin New to write in a very romantic style. But in 1923, Martin New left Czechoslovakia for Paris,

5:15where he encountered the roiling innovations of the avant-garde. This was the Roaring Twenties, an explosion of artistic development and innovation that incorporated the new American invention of jazz, the startling newness of atonality, the angular and shocking rhythms of Stravinsky, whose Rite of Spring from 1913 was still sending shockwaves through Europe, and the surrealist composers inspired by the wild experimentation in the art and theater world. It was a period of

5:46experimentation for so many composers, and Martin New was no exception, writing dozens of experimental works that particularly incorporated Stravinsky-esque rhythms with lots of harmonies influenced by jazz. In 1927, Martin New had one of these pieces, La Bagarre, inspired by Charles Lindbergh's Flight Across the Atlantic, premiered by Serge Kusevitsky and the Boston Symphony, inaugurating the relationship that would lead to the First Symphony.

Neoclassicism and exile

6:43By the 1930s, Martin New had found his style, neoclassicism. This was a way for composers to innovate without having to grapple with atonality, which so many composers still found difficult to embrace. I mentioned Sibelius and Rachmaninoff two weeks ago in my episode about Sibelius's Tapiola, and Martin New really falls into this category as well. Martin New's style would end up blending piquant dissonances with almost hypertonal music, creating contrast and life without embracing

7:18atonality. Martin New was building a successful career for himself, but by the late 1930s, the situation had changed. Perhaps one of the greatest works of this period, Martin New's double concerto for two-string orchestras, piano, and timpani, is an anguished piece that reflected Martin New's despair over the Nazi occupation of Czechoslovakia, the loss of his homeland, and his fears for the future.

8:06This is an extraordinary piece, and one that I will cover in the future. But continuing with our story, Martin New attempted to join the Czech resistance force, but was rejected due to his age. He instead devoted his time to helping Czech refugees escape, and composing works that glorified Czech resistance. The Nazis noticed, banning his music, and promising to arrest him. As the Nazis approached Paris, the conductor Charles Munch stepped in, sheltering the Martin New family and then helping

8:42them arrange transport to the United States, where the Martinus arrived in 1941. Life was not easy for Martin New at first in the U.S., but he soon embraced the country and its opportunities, and his prolific composing never slowed down. This brings us to the first symphony. The symphony itself was the ultimate ambition for so many composers up through the Romantic era, unless they were Wagnerians who believed that the symphony was dead. 20th century composers split on this, with some embracing the old symphonic ideal,

9:15Sibelius and Rachmaninoff again, but also Shostakovich, Prokofiev, and many others, and some embracing the smorgasbord of other options. This tended to be Martin New. But perhaps the grandness of his new home inspired something grand inside of Martin New, who wrote four symphonies in just four years in the U.S. Let's go into the first symphony now, which incorporates many of the things we've been talking

First movement exposition

9:40about in this introduction. The chords that Martin New uses

10:11for these blocks of harmonic changes aren't very complicated, mostly just minor and major chords. But the way he gets to them are through a series of chromatic scales, which blur the edges of the chords and make them less obviously tonal. One commentary I read about the piece compared this moment at the beginning to the end of the Beatles song, A Day in the Life, which I thought was a really nice comparison. There's a kind of attempt to resolve chaos in this opening, through those constantly searching chromatic scales. But once the tension resolves, we get a melodic line and a first theme

10:47in this sonata form movement that is absolutely typical Martin New, with its embrace of tonality, syncopation, and off-balance rhythms that suggest dance without fully embracing it. The end of the Beatles song, A Day in the Life, which I thought was a little bit different, but it's a little bit different, but it's a little bit different. Martin New instantly begins to develop this theme.

11:32And it's here where I can add one more aspect of Martin New's music to the picture. His music is really difficult to play. The syncopations in the melodies require a lot of concentration, and the rhythmic density of his accompaniments always have the potential to trip an orchestra up. Listen to this next section, a development of the first theme, twice. First for the melody, but on the second time, listen to the accompaniment and everything Martin New is doing.

12:02Thank you.

12:08Thank you.

12:11Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

12:43The density of his writing has to be treated really carefully by conductors, who have to constantly work on clarity in Martin U's music.

13:13But I don't mean to suggest that Martin U wasn't a skilled orchestrator. Far from it. Listen to this next passage where the syncopated melody is played by an ingenious combination of the winds, the harp, and the piano. It creates line, clarity, and brilliance all at once. The first theme, Area, comes to a close with Martin U combining the chromatic scale idea

13:55with his syncopated melody, as the strings bring this section to rest. We end up on an oscillating chord that suggests breathing, like we're a bit out of breath and now need a reset for the second theme. So, I'll see you again. Let's try that again. Let's try that again. Thank you. Thank you.

14:42But the transition to the second theme is full of those chromatic scales again. And in contrast to many second themes, which are intentionally quite a bit lighter than first themes, this second theme continues the syncopated idea of the first theme, but in a much more fragmented way. It is also darker in harmony, subverting our expectations.

15:12Thank you. This theme develops, with music that should be light and cheerful shot through with harmonies that are constantly changing between minor and major keys.

15:50This is certainly not threatening music, but it's also not really cheerful either. There is an enigmatic quality to it that belies its lightness. Perhaps it's also the chromatic intervals that are constantly present in the accompaniment. This leads to an extraordinary passage of mystery, where the syncopated ideas float over an accompaniment of trilling upper strings, and most importantly, a soft snare drum roll. This exposition section has taken us on quite the journey, and we are really unsure of where Martin New wants to take us next.

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First movement development

16:38The development section begins like many development sections do, with a descent into the darker sides of Martinew's themes. The theme is placed in the low strings while the violins continue their high trills,

17:08creating a huge gulf of register between them. Additionally, Martinew has a chromatic scale idea present in the winds. But the feeling here is uneasy, and this sense of threat begins to increase little by little.

17:38As this section continues, it becomes clear to me that it is a bit of an homage to the Moldau movement from Smetna's Mavlast. Here's the Smetna. Smetna's Mavlast

18:29And here's Martinew. Smetna's Mavlast Smetna's Mavlast Smetna's Mavlast Smetna's Mavlast Smetna's Mavlast Smetna's Mavlast Smetna's

18:57Smetna's Mavlast It's much more dense, much more threatening, and much more pungent harmonically than the Moldau, but the sense of slithering lines, long moments of harmonic stasis, and the orchestration, relying a lot on the flute, reminds me unmistakably of the Smetna. It's like a

19:27slightly distorted version of the Moldau, perhaps as viewed by a homesick composer 4,000 miles away. And then we get another typical Martinou moment. The Moldau music fades away, and the clarinets play a strangely cold, oscillating syncopation, which is responded to by the same rhythm, but in a richly dark harmony in the strings. This kind of contrast is so typical of Martinou, and why I love his music so much. It's constantly keeping you on your toes. The Moldau music

20:01The Moldau music But now the static syncopations begin to rise in intensity, and also to be inspired by that

20:35rich harmony in the strings. The music begins to take flight, and each four-bar phrase becomes richer and richer, more and more melodic, more and more tonal, and more and more Martinou. The Moldau music The breakthrough is delayed briefly by the strings, but when it comes, it is the most violent and dissonant

21:24music in the piece so far, which only serves to give us the real breakthrough just a few moments later, as the trumpets come in like conquering heroes with sun-kissed music that lifts the heart. The Moldau music The Moldau music The Moldau music

21:58The Moldau music The Moldau music The Moldau music The Moldau music The Moldau music The Moldau music But drama is never far away in this movement. It's a bit like the joyful music can't quite believe in itself.

22:30Perhaps thanks to the time that this symphony was written and Martinou's personal situation. This drama leads us back to a recapitulation of those mysterious opening chromatic scales. The Moldau music The Moldau music The Moldau music The Moldau music This sounds like a traditional recapitulation, but the truth is the movement is almost over.

23:16Martinou has bowed to symphonic tradition in one element, having two themes in his exposition and a clear development section, but he's combined the coda and the recapitulation together, making this a bit more of a symphonic poem movement rather than a typical sonata form movement. I stopped it right there for a reason.

23:54I stopped it right there for a reason. That B major chord was the result of the first set of these chromatic explorations in the introduction of the movement, but this time Martinou doesn't sit on that B major chord right to the end. Instead, for one measure, he explores sadness before ending the movement on a slightly enigmatic B major rather than a heroic one. It's a perfect ending to this beautiful, somewhat joyful, but certainly enigmatic movement, and it sets us up for the rest of the piece.

24:27The Moldau music The Moldau music The Moldau music The Moldau music

Scherzo rhythm and complexity

25:01The second movement is a scherzo, and it is a movement of dizzying complexity and excitement in terms of rhythm. It's very hard to tell where the downbeat is in this music, or even where the next attack will come from, but this is all par for the course for Martinou, who revels in these rhythmic displacements to create a movement that dances throughout with ever-growing excitement. It's hard to describe just how tricky this movement is for the orchestra,

25:52because Martinou keeps displacing where the beat is. In fact, he might be doing a bit of an homage to the Furiant, the dance I talked about in my Dvorak piano quintet episode. A dance which is in 3, but can easily feel like it's in 2. You might have actually thought that the introduction was in 2, but it is in 3-4, making it a nightmare for orchestral musicians to count. From time to time, though, Martinou resets the rhythm so we feel a strong downbeat, only to jump away again to the Furiant-like rhythm.

26:23A massive buildup leads to a fanfare-like motive from the trumpets, the first sustained moment where we feel like we've got a clear sense of the beat. Naturally, Martinou uses that moment as a transition to his second theme, music that couldn't be any more contrasting.

26:57An oboe emerges with a wistful and nostalgic theme over the top of this Furiant rhythm. The Furiant rhythm The Furiant rhythm The Furiant rhythm The Furiant rhythm And he'll be able to feel that in his second theme, music that couldn't be nice, in his second theme. The Furiant rhythm The Furiant rhythm The Furiant rhythm

27:27The Furiant rhythm As Martinu develops this, he gives the theme to the first violins, but in a harmonic language that is warm, comforting, and even sweet. This leads to playful scherzo music that is as bright and cheerful as it comes. We are a far cry from the rhythmic and harmonic complexity of the first section of the movement.

27:59ORCHESTRA PLAYS

28:29But nothing stays the same for very long in this movement. As Martinu picks up the tempo, he takes us to the coda of this big A section with another brilliant orchestration. Martinu was a big proponent of using the piano in orchestral scores, something that was not all that common. The piano plays a kind of lilting rhythm that is accompanied by some of that strange, mysterious, shimmering kind of orchestral color that we heard in the first movement. This begins a long, massive crescendo.

29:03Listen to how Martinu adds to the orchestra in layers. First, a quiet cymbal crash, then the brass. This is one of the most thrilling moments of the piece, and it feels like it never stops growing. At the peak, we hear that three against two rhythm in all its glory, taking us to the end of the A section and setting us up for the middle section called the trio.

29:42This is one of the most thrilling moments of the show.

Scherzo trio and return

30:12The beginning of the trio brings together a few elements that we have already heard in the piece. The oboe leads the orchestra in a beautiful pastoral melodic line that is nevertheless highly syncopated, reminding us of the first movement. And the responses from the orchestra to the beautiful melody are those same mysterious chromatic scales that started and ended the first movement. And remember that the oboe led to the second theme of the scherzo. In this pastoral moment of country calm, Martinu is subtly bringing everything together.

30:43Now Martinu starts some rhythmic games. Playing a theme in 6-8, 1-2-2-2, against an accompaniment in 3-4, 1-2-3, 1-2-3.

31:23This brings us back to some of the excitement of the scherzo while retaining the pastoral character of the movement. Perhaps a country dance is starting up. This is a country dance. This is one of theゃs. This is the deux selon nous. After a Spanish music-inflected outburst, the trills and chromatic scales return.

32:09Again, almost another homage to the Moldau idea. These motivic ideas are once again used as transitionary material as Martinu slowly winds them down until only the piano remains. Then the percussion quickly strike up the band, and we return right back to where we started.

32:46So, Martinu repeats the entire scherzo series, which is great because it allows us to revel in the rhythms

33:20that might have passed us by in a whirlwind the first time around. I love this movement, particularly for this scintillating use of rhythm. So I'll play you now the entire repeat of that A section. Listen for the two-against-three furiont, the orchestral color, the enigmatic oboe solo that is resolved by the strings, the playfulness, and of course, the pure excitement of this music.

33:46ladies and gentlemen, The Thanks for theШ You You You Thank you.

34:40Thank you.

35:10Thank you.

35:40Thank you.

36:10Thank you. Thank you.

Third movement lament

37:10The violins then join along with deep bells tolling in the piano part. This theme is very dark and is more of a lament than anything else. One of the most important things about it is the constant shifting Martinu does between minor and major keys. It's like little points of light amid the very dark shading of this melody. Slowly, Martinu begins to build out his orchestration.

38:07Adding more winds to this lament. It's impossible to avoid the year that this symphony was written, 1946, and the context of Martinu finding out what had happened to his homeland. There's no direct evidence that this was the goal of this movement, but I certainly hear an element of despair, an element of a funeral march in this music. Once again, as Martinu builds this music, that major-minor coloring continues. We arrive on an E major chord for a moment before almost immediately falling off of it to E minor.

38:42All the while, the bells and the piano continue to toll. This builds to a huge climax with the chromatic scales that have haunted the piece returning as an accompaniment.

39:15This is the emotional height of the piece so far, and it is overwhelmingly intense. The But just at the precipice, Martinu turns away without an arrival, and takes us to a kind

40:07of mystical place. The orchestration here is incredibly dense, with 12 different accompanimental lines going on at the same time underneath a lonely melody. And yet harmonically, the music turns us slightly towards a more hopeful feeling.

40:37But this hope was quite illusory. That slightly hopeful atmosphere dissipates as Martinu shows off yet another brilliant and innovative orchestration. Harp, piano, and pizzicato strings create a feeling of brittle fragility, underneath a mournful English horn solo that plays its

41:11theme in fragments.

41:36The trumpet then takes over the melody from the opening, and that brief middle section comes to an end, as Martinu goes back to his string-heavy orchestration for a continuation of the lament-slash-chorale from the beginning of the movement. Listen to the different harmonic surprises here. To me, there must be a religious element to this music. It feels like a passionate, almost desperate kind of prayer, with each resolution

42:06giving us one moment of hope, followed by a move on to the next lament. This is deeply personal music, and it stands out from the rest of the piece. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Two flutes mournfully signal the beginning of the coda of the movement, as Martinu once again begins to build. Perhaps this time we will reach the arrival we've been waiting

43:02for since that early climax. Martinu divides the string section into 12 individual lines, allowing him to create the maximum density to his harmony. As the rest of the orchestra

43:44joins, the rhythmic movement becomes more and more prominent, as this movement, which has been glacially slow so far, seems to get faster, even though Martinu doesn't change the tempo. It's as if this lamenting beast has been fully awakened. A bass drum hammers away, the rest of the orchestra starts to play sign gestures, and in a climax that reminds me in a way of the climax of the first movement of Tchaikovsky's Sixth Symphony, the lament culminates in a passionate cry of pain,

44:14punctuated by the percussion. . . . . . . . . Thank you.

45:04But Martinu is full of surprises. As we move away from this climactic moment, he returns to the chromatic scales and those block harmonic changes. It's like this music is being transfigured before our eyes. And unlike in the first movement, which ended on that beautiful B major, we end this third movement in a lamenting E minor. But the parallels between the movement's endings are unavoidable.

45:34Martinu specifically brings back this color for his ending, almost like he's presenting two versions of the same story, one that ends in B major, one that ends in E minor. It's a brilliant touch that continues to draw together the symphony's journey. It's a brilliant touch that continues to draw in the end of the year. It's a brilliant touch that continues to draw together the symphony's journey. Thank you.

Fourth movement opening theme

46:28The fourth movement picks up the tempo quite a bit, but seems to be staying in a dark mood. The winds play a theme that seemed to be a warning of something ominous to come.

47:00Do you remember that strange moment with the flutes playing alone in the third movement? Well, here it is again, and it's used as a transition to the main theme in the movement.

47:41It was actually transitional material in the third movement too, but it was in a slower tempo and more substantial there, so it feels completely different. But actually, Martinou is already starting to tie the whole piece together, right at the beginning of this movement. A cheerful theme emerges out of this mysterious transition, led by the oboes and then taken

48:23over by the strings. This is jaunty and bouncy music that is nevertheless shot through with pungent harmonies and dissonances. In other words, classic Martinou. A second theme quickly arrives, which is also playful, slightly ironic, and full of syncopations.

48:59Unlike many Eastern European composers, Martinou was not a composer who dabbled a lot in folk music, but I definitely get a sense of a folk music influence in this second theme as it dances along. We return back to the main theme, which passes around the orchestra with dizzying speed.

49:40This first section comes to a close with a huge arrival that almost sounds like the end of the piece, but then the violas take us by the hand to lead us to the B section. The violas take us by the end of the song. ¶¶

Fourth movement chorale and development

50:24The B section is another chorale-like theme, and this is really my favorite kind of Martinou flavor. It's richly scored for the winds, with lush harmonies which have this kind of hypertonal quality to them. This is warm, naive music with some very playful memories of the first theme in the piano part. None of this is meant to be taken that seriously. It's simple music, like 20th century Dvorak.

50:55¶¶ ¶¶ As this section develops, the chromatic scales return,

51:33marking their presence in all four movements. The orchestration which had thinned out for the B section now becomes more and more dense, and the chromatic scales passing around the orchestra give us a feeling like rushing water is taking us to somewhere absolutely massive and powerful. But Martinou suddenly moves away from the precipice to bring us back to the first theme. ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶

52:03¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ We arrive at an almost development of sorts, with the theme being thrown around the orchestra,

52:49and with a hugely dramatic character led by the brass, with lots of percussion interruptions.

53:00The section culminates with a massive theme played by the whole string section, the first time this color has occurred in the whole piece, all while the winds and brass continue the dotted rhythm and the percussion hammer away. This is a wild and glorious moment, and it is the most exciting moment of the movement. The End

53:34The End The End The End

54:11This theme returns, but despite all the syncopations, it feels much calmer than anything we've heard in this movement. There's that contrast again. There's a valedictory feeling to this music, like it's taking everything in it that we have experienced throughout, and is processing it, synthesizing it, and accepting it. This is my favorite moment of the whole piece, and I really find it truly touching.

54:48The piccolo and flute play a kind of tag to this music, and we seem to be heading toward a calm end, until a shocking minor chord and a shiver in the strings suddenly gives this music a quietly terrifying character. What happened here? It's like a terrible memory suddenly intruded on our rumination. Now Martinu will have to deal with this as we enter the coda.

55:23The End The End The End The End The End ORGAN PLAYS

55:59This wandering music still trying to come to terms with that minor chord fades away until only a single flute is left.

56:29ORGAN PLAYS

Finale coda and celebration

56:34The coda begins here like a car revving up, and Martinou decides to cast away all of that doubt and bring us back to the cheerful first theme.

57:09ORGAN PLAYS But we need some sort of breakthrough here, and Martinou knows just where to find it. ORGAN PLAYS

57:40ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS

58:10ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS ORGAN PLAYS Yes, it's the chromatic scales, the buildups in this movement, the diversions to more dramatic and stormy music, all of it can be solved with the chromatic scales, which drive us

58:44over the edge into a wild celebration. All the themes of the piece return with joyful syncopations and we rush to the end of the piece full of life-affirming energy. It's one of the most thrilling endings to any 20th century symphony, and it caps off this symphony with the excitement it deserves.

59:20Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. To me, Martinu is truly one of the most underrated composers.

1:00:08His language is unusual and totally unique, and for some listeners it remains a bit impenetrable. I remember doing one of Martinu's pieces called The Rock, and a friend of mine, who I respect hugely, said to me afterwards, it's a bit all over the place. But to me, that all-over-the-place energy is exactly what I love about Martinu. To love Martinu's music, you have to revel a bit in its chaos, the jump cuts, the emotional contrast, the harmonic language, the energy itself. I hope that this episode has gone a bit of the way to demystifying

1:00:44that language for you, and I will definitely be exploring more Martinu in episodes to come. This episode was mixed by Charlie Cozella, so a huge thank you to him. We'll have some more exciting stuff for you in a couple of weeks, so don't miss our next episode. If you like what you heard today, please feel free to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It really helps the

1:01:18show gain more visibility. Please send any questions to stickynotespodcast at gmail.com, and if you'd like to support the podcast monetarily, just head over to patreon.com slash stickynotespodcast. Thanks, and I'll talk to you again after a while.

1:01:48Thank you again after a while. Thank you. Thank you.