El Chupacabra: The Internet's First Cryptid

0:00She still sticks by her inspection of the non-existent genitalia, which again is a crazy detail of the story. If I see a giant monster out in my mom's yard, I'm not going to be like, hmm, what's going on with that? Right, what's going on down there? But, you know. That's my last priority.

0:21I'm Paige. And I'm Megan. And this is Spooky Science Systems.

0:30Hello, you're listening to Spooky Science Sisters, a podcast where we present to you a science-based and probably very giggly discussion on all things strange and unusual. I'd say we are switching it up from aliens to do a cryptid this week, but turns out a lot of people think this cryptid is actually an alien, which might be enough of a clue for some of you to guess that this week we'll be talking about the chupacabra. Yay!

1:00Okay, but before we talk about the chupacabra, did you guys know that we wrote a book?

1:07No way. No way. If you somehow didn't know or forgot, we did write a book, and the name of that book is Spooky Science Dissecting the Mysteries of Ghosts, Cryptids, Aliens, and Other Oddities. And if you haven't already gotten a copy, you should go get one. And if you have gotten one and read it, we ask that you leave a review because it does a lot for us as little baby authors. It helps us out a lot.

1:38So if you've read it, please review it. Yeah, because then other people are like, wow, this is great. I should also get this book. I should also read this book. Unless you hate it, in which case don't review it. No.

1:51We can take it. So with that book, we've got a couple upcoming events. Last Friday, we did Kenny Biddle's Friday night live stream. So we will post a link to the YouTube video for that if you haven't seen that yet. And then we've also got a signing event coming up on September 5th at Finch and Fern Company in Sylvania, Ohio. We've got the Southport Literary Fair in Kenosha on October 4th.

2:22And then we've got the virtual event, the Skeptical Inquirer Presents, which is October 30th. So we're excited. We've got some good stuff coming. Yeah. And I've been putting a link in the show notes that goes to our website with more details and links to those events. So if you want to know more, you can. And come visit us. Okay. Yep. Something spooky. I got nothing other than just general dismay that the end of summer is here and school

2:56starts next week. That's really weird. That is weird. Yep. Time goes too fast. It's creepy. Yeah, it's crazy. And also, I feel like the weather is changing so fast this year. Oh, yeah, I know. It's downright cold. Like, we're getting ready to go up north and, like, some of the low temperatures are in the high 30s, which is bananas.

3:19Yeah, it's like, it's a little too early for that. Yeah. It was like, okay, it's fall now. Paige, has anything spooky happened to you? Yeah. The only thing, really, is maybe over the weekend, but maybe last week sometime, we let Ari, my dog, upstairs with us in bed, which we don't normally do. But every once in a while, we treat her to a night in bed. So nice of us. And she's usually pretty good, but I don't know what happened that night.

3:51We were, like, both out. It was, like, 2 o'clock in the morning, and she just, like, hops up on all four legs, staring outside, like, toward the open door of our bedroom, and just starts barking her head off. Oh, man. And we have no idea why. Neither of us heard anything. And then she just, like, after, like, a minute or so, just kind of, like, calmed down and laid back down and went to sleep. So. Great. That was bizarre. So you got to spend a couple minutes, like, worrying that somebody was walking around your

4:24house or some shit? Oh, yeah. I was, like, convinced somebody was inside of our house. Because, of course, I was. Yeah. But also, if that was the case, Ari would not be, like, you said your door was open. Our bedroom door was open, yeah. Yeah. She would not just be standing in the doorway barking. Like, she would be out there. Attack. Oh, yeah. She would have fully been sprinted outside of our room. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. And, like, I don't know if I've talked about it before on the podcast, but our dog has, like, dog epilepsy?

4:55Which I guess is, like, just epilepsy, but I don't know. It's not, like, dog epilepsy. It's just epilepsy. But that's, like, what she used to do right before she would have a seizure. Like, she would have a lot at night where she would, like, start barking and then she would, like, go hide before she had it. But nothing else. Just, like, straight up, like, up, barking, and then sleeping. So, I don't know what happened. Well, sometimes you gotta. Sometimes you have to scream in the middle of the night. Yes. Well, now it's time to get to the main event, which is the chupacabra.

5:28It feels weird that we haven't done this one yet. And I also feel like there were things about it that I was really not expecting. So, I'm excited to talk about it. Yeah. I'm surprised we haven't done it either. In fact, like, I, when we first talked about doing it, like, sort of thought that maybe we had as, like, a short and spooky at some point. But no. No? Nope. Cool. So. Chupacabra. The word, or the name chupacabra, is derived from the Spanish words chupar, chuper, which

6:00means to suck, and cabra, which means goat. So, it's known as, like, the goat sucker. And chupacabra is known as this, like, vampire cryptid. And it's named, like, specifically for its supposed killing and then draining of the blood of livestock in the Americas. And the way I said that didn't make any sense, but you guys know what I'm saying. It makes sense to me. It makes sense to me. And nowadays, like, if you think about the chupacabra, if you've seen shows or movies

6:35about it, most people, like, describe it or think of it as either this humanoid-looking creature or this, like, hairless, large, dog-like creature. Which is very funny to me, because it's like, well, so it's two completely different animals. Yeah. Exactly. What did you picture when you thought chupacabra before this episode? More like the hairless dog creature thing. Yeah. Yeah. So that was my first big surprise, was that it started out as, which we'll talk about,

7:08but that it started out as, like, a humanoid, reptilian kind of thing. Yeah. Though, I guess, like, if I were picturing it, I would think of it as, like, dog-like and, like, maybe size and form, but sort of, like, reptilian-looking. Huh. Okay. I don't know. I feel like I've always just thought, like, it kind of, everything I saw kind of looked like a mangy dog. So, I don't know. But anyway, two totally different animals that people normally think of, although you apparently think of more of a combo of them.

7:40Yeah. So, yeah, we already, like, sort of hinted at this, but obviously, like, people think of different things than they think of chupacabra, and part of that is because the, like, OG version from, like, the original sightings and stories was described as a bipedal three- to five-foot man-like creature with alien-like eyes, maybe spikes, and long fingers or claws similar to

8:12a reptile. Yes. And a lot of descriptions say that the eyes are, like, red or even that they glow, and they kind of, like, wrap around its head some. Um, and then I also saw it described as a combination of a kangaroo, because it hopped, like, one, a gargoyle, and a gray alien, which is just really something. Yeah. Well, and, like, without looking at pictures, just those descriptions, like, trying to, like,

8:43create that in your head. Tell me that this is not, like, the most terrifying-sounding cryptid that we've probably ever talked about. Like, Bigfoot's big, but, like, this guy's... That's just a straight-up monster. Right. But I feel similarly about, like, the Jersey Devil. That's more just, like, a monster. Like, doesn't feel anything like what a real animal, like, what's biologically possible for for an animal in this world. So, yeah, it's, uh, the original sightings.

9:16It's a super weird creature. And, yeah, what people think of when they think chupacabra can vary quite wildly. The other big surprising thing for me, when we started looking into this more closely, and I guess I just, like, I don't know, hadn't listened to or read a lot of stuff about chupacabra before this, so I didn't know this, but it's not an old cryptid. And, gun to my head, I would have said, oh, this is an old cryptid. Like, this is something that's been around for generations and has old folklore associated

9:49with it. But, like, no. It didn't start until 1995. Yeah, that surprised me, too. Yeah, like, I was eight years old when the chupacabra showed up in the world. It's like, that just feels weird to me. But anyway, we can go through some of the sightings. But that was my other big surprise, was I didn't know that it was, like, a reptilian, and humanoid creature, and I didn't know that it was so recent. But we start with not seeing the chupacabra, but we start having chupacabra activity in March of 1995.

10:21And this is when eight sheep were found dead in Orocovis, Puerto Rico. And they were apparently, or supposedly, completely drained of blood. And each of them had three puncture wounds in their chest area. So, presumably, where whatever, you know, bit them and drained their blood from. So, that's the first suspected activity. Then we move forward over the next few months, and we start to see carcasses of goats and chickens

10:52and other small farm animals that show up dead in the area around Orocovis, and over near another town called Canavanos. And in Canavanos alone, there were around 150 animals that were killed during this time. So, people are a little, and, like, understandably a little bit freaked out about whatever's going on, like, whatever's killing all these animals in their area. Yeah, for sure. I mean, who wouldn't be, you know?

11:26So, then, yeah, a couple months later, in August of 1995, we get our first eyewitness account. So, one afternoon, sometime in the second week of August, Madeline Tolentino sees this creature in the town of Barrio Campo Rico in Canavanos. It's fine. I'm pronouncing everything so well right now. Yeah. And so, she is looking out the window of her mother's house when she noticed that there

12:02was a car outside. And in a 1996 interview with UFO Digest, Madeline says that the driver inside of that car was, like, looking sort of scared and then kind of slowly started backing up. And it prompted her to kind of look around and investigate what he was, or they, I guess, were freaking out about. And as she's looking around, she saw a creature that she said was facing her, walking on two legs. But also, like, maybe floating, but also maybe bouncing.

12:35It's hard to tell. But, like, moving around, importantly, they're standing on two legs. Yeah. And during that interview, she described the creature kind of as we had previously mentioned, where it's bipedal, around four feet tall, walking on long, skinny legs. She described it in an attack position, which she says throughout her interview, like, it never leaves that position. It's always, like, in attack mode, whatever that means.

13:09So, maybe that's just its regular body position. Right. She also said during that interview that it had gray eyes and that there was something on its back and, like, describes it as, like, maybe being feathers, but there's, like, definitely something on its back. Okay. She also, at one point, says that she's inside looking through a window and sort of, like, bends down to, like, try to see if she can, like, see its genitalia and, like, specifically

13:41says that, like, there's nothing there. Great. So. Like a Ken doll. She, in this interview, then went on to describe an event where her mother goes running out after this creature to try to capture it. And, like, to that, I say abso-fucking-lutely not. Yeah. I see this thing in attack mode, whatever that means. Like, I'm not chasing it down.

14:11Yeah. I think maybe our first instinct shouldn't be to, like, run at the mysterious, threatening creature. Right. But whatever. You do you. So then, like, her mom does not successfully catch the creature. She then goes on to describe a boy who apparently worked for her husband, then comes out and he chases the creature. And he, like, sort of catches it. Like, he at least, like, gets his hands on it. Mm-hmm. And apparently, he, like, describes to her that what she thought were feathers were actually,

14:46like, spikes or, like, spiny things on his back that kind of hop up as he grabs it. He also pried or says he pried its mouth open and saw that it had fangs. Eventually, though, he loses it and it takes off into the woods. Yeah. Which, listen, we're going to get into it more. But I was, like, I was with it on this story. And I was with Madeline, like, okay, you saw something weird, whatever. And then we get to the detail of the boy running out and chasing it and prying its mouth open

15:20to look inside. I was like, come on. Like, this did not happen. Yeah.

15:26That's an insane thing to happen. And I think I heard in one of the podcast episodes I listened to about this that, like, no one ever bothered to, like, to follow up with him. People talked to Madeline, but no one followed up with him or the other people supposedly around in this story. So that's suspicious. Agreed. Agreed. So if you read through, like, the whole, like, transcript or whatever of this interview, it's, like, pretty long. But importantly, like, nothing really comes of it.

15:59The interview happens and then, like, seemingly it sort of just dies. Great. But in 2010, Ben Radford, who I think we've talked about a lot on the podcast and definitely was a part of the book, interviews Madeline. Yeah, there are very few episodes of this podcast that have not used Ben as a source in some capacity or the other. He's a very long and prolific career writing as a skeptic about spooky things. So, yeah. Living the dream.

16:30He has, like, a whole book about the chupacabra. He does. So, yes, he interviews Madeline at some point, or in 2010, and also her husband, Jose, or partner. I guess I don't know that they're married, but Jose is also there. And the story he gets that day in 2010 is, like, quite a bit different than the one from the 1996 interview. In this interview, in the 2010 one, the monster still sort of floated or moved like a kangaroo,

17:01whatever that means. I was going to say, those are two very different motions. Yeah. And, like, Ben, like, points that out during, like, his write-up of this. Like, this, there's definitely some inconsistencies with the different, forms of communication, transportation that we're talking about here. And apparently it just sort of gets, like, waved away. Like, I don't really know that there's an answer. But, yeah. Floats or moves or walks or whatever. Bounces. Like a kangaroo. And she still described the nose and the eyes, like, pretty much the same way.

17:34She still sticks by her inspection of the non-existent genitalia. Which, again, is a crazy detail of the story. If I see a giant monster out in my mom's yard, I'm not going to be like, hmm, what's going on with that junk? Right, what's going on down there? But, you know. That's my last priority.

17:53Importantly, the stories about chasing the creature down are, like, basically completely removed from the 2010 retelling. Oh. And, like, through that interview with Ben, she said that her mother mentioned chasing it down, but never actually left the house to do it. Oh, okay. And as for the story about the boy who chased it down and pried its mouth open, that just never happened. I had no idea. I had not read through this part of the notes at all.

18:26So, I guessed it. I knew that sounded like a really weird detail. Yeah, yeah. And she, like, apparently specifically says that he ran out, like, the boy, like, ran out to try to see it, but, like, never actually saw it. Huh. Okay. Who was the boy? Is he, like, a friend or is he a... He was an employee of Jose's, her partner. Whatever she saw, though, she, like, did make a point in the 2000 interview,

18:592010 interview, to say that, like, she never said it was extraterrestrial. Oh. She specifically just said that its skin was extraterrestrial-like. Because we famously know exactly what alien skin looks like. Exactly. Exactly. I'm sorry. I'm apparently feeling really snarky about this. But as it goes with, like, so many of these stories, there's no physical proof of this sighting. There's no photos.

19:29There are no other eyewitnesses who are willing to, like, come out and talk about it. Like, literally nobody else has spoken up to corroborate her story. And, of course, her, like, her partner, her husband, wasn't there. So, like, you know, he can be there to, like, speak in these interviews, but, like, wasn't really involved the day of. So, it's not like he has anything to corroborate her story either. And, like, other than the interview that occurred in 96, which I actually think that, I'm sorry, I think that interview happened in 95, but it was published in 96.

20:02But either way, like, other than that interview, there doesn't really seem to be any sort of, like, investigation that takes place. Gotcha. Yeah. It's just, wow, I saw this really weird thing, and a few people talked to her about it, and that's it. Yeah, and then it just, like, takes off. Yes. Yeah, so obviously people were very excited about this. And as it goes, we'll be saying that phrase a lot, as it goes with a lot of these things, because it all kind of plays out in a similar way to a lot of other stories.

20:32But once one person sees the chupacabra, then everybody starts seeing the chupacabra. So, claims of chupacabra activity or sightings spread across the Caribbean, Mexico, and Latin America. The chupacabra appeared in the U.S. for the first time in 1996 in Miami, followed by Texas and Arizona, and other places, mainly in the South and Southwest, although there have been stories about people finding one all the way up in Maine.

21:03The transition to the United States was likely facilitated by a segment appearing on a popular talk show called Cristina, which aired in March 1996 on the Spanish-language television network Univision, Univision, which is the biggest distributor of Spanish-language television in the U.S. Like 100 million people would have been able to see this. And the host, Cristina, who the show is named for, is often described as Spanish-language television's Oprah.

21:35So, she's a big deal, and it makes sense that, you know, you start to get sightings in the U.S. once everybody sees the segment that she does on her show. Sure. And I think even Cristina sort of went into the segment sort of, and it's with the mayor of one of the cities, I think, of Canavanis, so one of the cities where the original sightings happened. She kind of went into it, like, tongue-in-cheek, thinking, like, oh, this is all sort of silly, whatever. And by the end, she's sort of apparently convinced

22:06that there's actually something weird going on and says something to that effect to her audience. So, it's like, everybody's going to take this very seriously at this point. All right. So, yeah, we keep getting sightings all over. There's a couple of sort of big events that happen in the following years. So, in 2000, a farmer in Nicaragua claimed that he shot a chupacabra, that he had had something attacking his livestock,

22:36and that he stayed up late one night and actually saw two chupacabras and managed to shoot one of them. And he submits it to a university to be tested, and they come back and say, bro, this is a dog with mange.

22:54I'm sure they were much more polite about it. But they tell him, no, this is a dog with mange. But he does not believe that the carcass that they gave... Like, he agrees that they give him back a dog carcass, but he doesn't think that what was returned to him was the same animal that he turned over for testing. So, he thinks that the scientists at the university, for whatever reason, like, were trying to hide what he really found or take it for their own. Who knows?

23:24But he thinks the dog thing is, like, a cover-up, and they've taken the real specimen. Which, like, here's the thing about university researchers. Like, they're probably just like, oh, this is a fun little side project. Like, we'll devote a little bit of time to this. But, like, nobody has the time for a giant cover-up of some weird monster that somebody found. Like, I'm positive that this is just a weird dog. Right. Yeah. We get another spike in sightings in 2004. Actually, I'm not sure if it's 2004 or 2007,

23:54or if there were spikes at both of those times in Texas. But either way, we get kind of spikes in sightings in Texas when we get some livestock that start to get attacked again. A farmer does manage to shoot another supposed chupacabra, and people, like, over time have found a few more carcasses. Importantly, these look nothing like what was originally seen in Puerto Rico. So now, like, everything that's being turned in are these more, like, dog-like creatures.

24:26And the DNA tests of the ones in Texas that got turned in are actually coyotes with mange. So, we're just talking about mangy canids. People are thinking are chupacabras. But it is, like, an interesting transition from, again, this original humanoid, reptilian, alien-like creature to people are just seeing dogs with mange. So if you've ever seen a picture of a dog with mange,

24:56like, it can look pretty nasty. Like, they, you know, they don't look normal at all. So I could imagine if it's nighttime and you can't see your field very well, like, you're going to think something weird's going on out there. I'm still, like, not clear that I know where, like, when that switch happened or why it happened. Yeah. I'm also not sure. I'm not clear that anybody's really sure, like, why it happened or when it happened. So I think the way that Ben Radford thinks about this

25:29is that the chupacabra is more just like a scapegoat figure or a sort of like a catch-all boogeyman, you know, attacks the livestock kind of figure. So, like, you see something weird in your field, you see something weird while you're driving it at night, and, you know, that's the chupacabra. And so for whatever reason, maybe just because in the U.S. we've got more canid-type predators like foxes and coyotes and things that they don't have in Puerto Rico,

25:59like, it just starts to transition into that kind of animal here versus the original. That's my best guess. But it's kind of a... Chupacabra becomes a little bit of a catch-all for, like, people just seeing weird things. And then they're like, well, it was a chupacabra. But then is it, like, truly a cryptid then? Well, yeah, exactly. I mean, that's kind of the point, right? Yeah. Yeah, like, if you're going to make the argument that it's a flesh-and-blood animal... Yeah. It can't be both. It can't be two different animals. It can't change depending on the sighting that happens.

26:32So it's either something supernatural or it's an actual animal, in which case some of what people are seeing are not the animal. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But basically all the ones that have been turned in have been dogs or coyotes or foxes or, like, some other type of dog-like creature that is just ill. Sure. So, yeah.

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27:13Okay, as is common with cryptids, the history behind the chupacabra has been extended backwards since the first sighting. So, like, this happens with Bigfoot, this happens with Nessie, and with the chupacabra, it is a cryptozoologist named Scott Corrales who believes that the modern reports actually began not in 1995 but in 1974

27:44and that you can trace it back even further and link the chupacabra to older folklore from the indigenous Taino people about a creature called a maboya. So, the 1974-1975 settings, the year changes depending on where you look because, of course, it does. But this is a creature known as the Vampire of Mocha. So, this is, again, farm animals

28:14that were allegedly drained of blood found near the town of Mocha, Puerto Rico. And, you know, obviously everyone thinks it's very bizarre. At the time that they were found, because we're sort of in the, like, satanic panic time, there was some speculation that there was some sort of satanic cult at play. But then Scott Corrales goes back and says, like, well, maybe actually this was the chupacabra. And then it shows back up 20 years later in 1995. And then as for the indigenous folklore,

28:45so these are the Taino people who are indigenous to Puerto Rico and to the Caribbean. But the Maboya is a nocturnal, sort of negative or evil deity that was capable of destroying crops. And I saw it described as either would seduce or violate women. So, that's two very different views on the same action. Not great. But very much a supernatural being and not, like, an animal running around killing livestock.

29:16So, I don't know. The connection seems a little bit tenuous to me in that case. Yeah. So, long story short, though, I think despite some people saying, like, oh, well, it actually started in the 70s and maybe it goes back to this older folklore, I think for a lot of people the consensus is that the chupacabra wasn't really around until the 1990s. And it was described by cryptozoologist Donald Troll as the, quote, first monster that the internet can call its own.

29:48Because at this point in time, it was sort of the first time that this type of legend or story about a cryptid could spread so far so fast. And that's partly thanks to the internet. So, we're sort of, like, rapidly developing this new cryptid and new folklore. That's kind of cool, though. Yeah. Do you know what year the X-Files episode came out? I don't know. I also don't remember. I have only vague memories of that. I was actually going to ask you, is there an X-Files episode about chupacabra?

30:19Yeah, there is. It's in 97. Oh, season four. Just wondering. A couple years later. I just didn't realize, like, when I watched that episode, how recent all of this would have been. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, they were breaking the news.

30:37Okay. So, that's sort of a brief overview of the history of sightings. But, like I said, really, chupacabra shows up on the scene in the 90s and then sort of changes form. And, you know, every once in a while, you get a new sighting. More recently, but I would say there's, like, not a lot of sightings that have happened, at least in any big way or newsworthy way for quite a while. Sure. Yeah. I think the most recent thing I saw was, like, from 2019.

31:08Yeah. So, we can get into debunking some of these claims and stories and talking about what the chupacabra might actually be. So, to start. You'll never guess what we think it is. You've only talked about it, like, three times already. Oh, that it's a dog? Yeah. Oh. There are other options, though, that I think are viable. Yeah.

31:40It's not all the options, man. Okay. So, to start, you kind of have the typical cryptid problems that apply here. And by that, I mean, if we're looking at this from a cryptozoology standpoint and saying, hey, this is an actual animal that's in Puerto Rico and wandering around the Caribbean and potentially also the southern and southwest United States. So, in order to have an animal like that and, you know, have, at this point,

32:10decades of sightings, you'd need at least a few hundred alive to maintain some sort of breeding population. But even in, you know, mainland U.S. or somewhere in Central America or South America, you'd expect to find some kind of evidence of this animal existing. So, if you think about a small island like Puerto Rico, it would just be so remarkably hard to hide any evidence

32:41of that type of animal if we assume that there has to be more than one, like a population of them. And I mean, like, in the form of bodies or scat or even a reasonable amount of credible sightings. There's also no fossil evidence of, like, that type of creature existing on the island. And then you also might expect to see its prey more regularly. Like, usually there's, like, years between stories in this case. So, like, why, you know, why the 20-year gap if we say it actually

33:12started in 1974 and then we see it again in 1995. The other thing about this that I thought was a little funny is it also seems a little weird that the chupacabra apparently has no qualms about going after big animals. Like, some of the supposed animals that have been killed by it have been, like, cows. But then it never attacks people? Yeah. Yeah. This kid supposedly chases after it and, like, rips its mouth open and it's just like, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. Which, I mean,

33:43I guess to be fair, there have been, like, there are obviously wolves out there in the world which are large predators and they can take down quite large animals and there's, like, one fatal wolf attack that's ever been recorded in sort of modern times for a human. So, I don't know. So, I guess maybe that's not as good of a point as I think it is, but it just seems like the chupacabra would also go after people. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, we don't know why, but, like, I don't disagree. It just feels more like

34:13this should be a threat to people as well. There is a guy that tried to claim that he was attacked by a chupacabra, but apparently he really just got in a bar fight and didn't want his wife to find out. Like, what? What? A chupacabra attack? Like, are you fucking serious? Yeah. You could choose anything else. And you're like, you know what? I'm going with chupacabra attack. Yeah, that would be like in our neck of the woods

34:44if Elliot came home one night and, you know, he had clearly, he had, like, black eye and cuts on his face or whatever, and he's like, oh, yeah, I ran into a Wendigo on the way home from work. My question, though, is like, yeah, where was this guy? Oh, I have no idea. I hope it was somewhere where it at least made some sense. Oh, yeah, like, I think he was somewhere in the Caribbean or in Latin America. So, yeah, he just tried to pull a fast one and not admit

35:14his wife he'd been in a bar fight.

35:19You got to respect the commitment to the big lie, I guess.

35:24Anyway, so, these problems aside are sort of the quote-unquote typical cryptid problems, if we're thinking about this from, like, a zoology standpoint. Some people do try to justify the lack of sightings or the lack of fossils or other evidence by saying that, well, none of that exists because the chupacabra wasn't actually around until the 90s. And the reason that it wasn't around until the 90s is, could be that it is an alien that got dropped off on Earth.

35:56And some people think that it was, like, an alien pet that they dropped off on Earth. It's like, we are not the universe's humane society.

36:07But doesn't that make you just feel a little sad for chupacabra? That makes me sad for chupacabra, yeah, if it got abandoned by its alien owners on Earth. It's a bummer.

36:17Also, we cannot, guys, we cannot just any time it's hard to explain something say, well, it's probably just that an alien dropped it off. Yeah. Or that it's an interdimensional being, and a portal opens up and that's where it comes out of. Those can't be the only two explanations. They just can't. It just can't be.

36:40They're just the ones that are impossible to, like, come up with any reasonable argument against. Like, it's just the, you're building, like, the impossible fence for anybody to climb over. Anyway, the other option here is that people think that the Chupacabra might have not shown up until the 90s because it was actually a genetic experiment gone wrong that escaped from a top-secret government lab,

37:11which is more likely than an alien drop-off, but agreed. Still unlikely. And again, I say, who is keeping this secret 30 years later. Right. Exactly. Yeah. So there's some shenanigans trying to get around sort of if this is an animal, here are the problems, whatever. And if we think about sightings of Chupacabra, the actual main thing that's going on here, we think, and that I think most skeptics think, is that people are just misidentifying

37:42other animals. Yeah. And, like, I think we already know that, yeah, we do already know that, like, some of these sightings have just been dogs, or, like, some other canid, like, pet dogs or some other canid with mange. We've already talked about that. So likely, more of them than what we know are just dogs. I hadn't seen the deformed raccoon theory. Okay. But, like, you've looked at the photos,

38:12yeah, of, like, what they mean by deformed raccoon. I have not. But they actually, like, I guess I was like, okay, I mean, they're not big enough, and, like, they don't really look like any of the drawings, but they actually, like, sort of do when I pulled it up. Yeah, send me what you're talking about.

38:33Yeah. The size thing never really bothers me because, which is funny, we just talked about it in respect to, like, judging the distance to lights in the sky, but just in general, people are not great at judging the size of things when they're surprised or scared, so. Yeah, I mean, that's fair. So the size difference never really bothers me. That's a raccoon? Yeah, it's a hairless animal, and they say it's presumably a deformed raccoon.

39:04Gotcha. Is it dead in that photo? Just, like, one that was caught in Texas, and it was, like, caught in the 50s, so. Oh. But seeing that, I'm like, okay, if that is a raccoon, which, like, I could maybe see it if you put some hair on it, then, like, I could see how this turns into some of those drawings. Yes. There's, like, a little added drama. If it's more like a dog-like creature, then sure. Yes, yeah, not, obviously

39:34not the one, like, walking around. So, I don't know, I saw that picture, and I was like, okay, I can sort of see it. I don't know what I thought about deformed raccoon, but, you know. Yeah, I was like, because I was just like, what does deformed