Episode 312 - Jill Scott

Welcome and introducing Jill Scott

0:00Welcome everybody to another edition of Soda Jerker on Songwriting. It's your intrepid hosts Brian and Simon here, and joining us for episode 312 is an acclaimed American singer, songwriter, poet, actor, and a leading voice in contemporary soul and R&B for the last quarter

0:33century. During a distinguished career, she's worked with the likes of The Roots, Erykah Badu, Carmen, Will Smith, Alicia Keys, Al Jarreau, and Dr Dre. She recently dropped her hotly anticipated sixth studio album, To Whom This May Concern, and it will not surprise you to learn that it's a more than worthy addition to her canon. We're delighted to welcome the sublime Jill Scott to the show. Our guest was born in 1972 in Philadelphia and raised by her mother and grandmother in the north of the city. Jill's first love was not music, but poetry, and it was a pivotal moment

1:05when, in the eighth grade, a teacher introduced her to the work of Nicky Giovanni. Later, her natural affinity for language was further nurtured by her discovery of writers like J. California Cooper and Octavia Butler. Jill planned to become a high school English teacher and for three years majored in education at Temple University. She began performing her poetry on the Philly cafe scene while working odd jobs, but was also writing songs inspired by the likes of Stevie Wonder, Prince, and the Quincy Jones-produced soundtrack to The Wiz. One night at a poetry slam in the late 90s, a mutual friend introduced her to the Roots' Amir Questlove Thompson, who was blown away by her

1:39unique interpretation of Jodeci's Freaking You. As a result, Questlove enlisted Jill to co-write the 1999 Roots song, You Got Me, which was recorded with Erykah Badu on lead vocals and won a Grammy the following year. During the same period, she was also mentored by producer Jeff Towns, aka DJ Jazzy Jeff, made a guest appearance on Will Smith's Willennium album, and toured in a Canadian production of the musical Rent. Having become the first signing to independent label Hidden Beach, in 2000, Jill dropped her instant classic, platinum-selling, Grammy-nominated debut

2:11LP, Who Is Jill Scott? Words and Sounds Volume 1. I saw her live in Manchester around that time, and my god, that was some show. Nice. The follow-up, 2004's Beautifully Human Words and Sounds Volume 2, was equally well-received, and yielded signature songs like Golden and the Grammy-winning Cross My Mind. Other albums include 2011's The Light of the Sun and 2015's Woman, both of which topped the Billboard charts. Jill's acting career also got rolling around the turn of the millennium, and she's notched up

2:42numerous credits since then, with roles in hit TV series like The Number One Lady's Detective Agency and The First Wives Club, and movies like Hound Dog, Why Did I Get Married, and the 2014 James Brown biopic Get On Up. Of course, she's never strayed far from her first love, and published her best-selling poetry anthology, The Moments, The Minutes, The Hours, in 2005. Before we move on, our thanks to Doné for her help setting up the interview. Right, on with the show. Here we are in conversation with the mighty Jill Scott. You just been humping me, shallowly, superficially, babe. Don't close your eyes, you can see and

3:19feel at the same time. Touch me all over, squeeze my meat, everything on me got feelings. Change the position of, give me afro beats, please me hard, so hard, like a K-dot lyric that's sweet, as my grandma's gams, with the marshmallows on top, her napples and candy pecans, I'm on.

The ten-year hiatus and daily life

3:52So it's the first album in 10 years, Jill. Yep, yes. What brought you back now? What brought me back? I think I had enough living. I got full, you know, the day-to-day enjoyment, just making lunch, making dinner, taking out the trash, going to the grocery store. You know, those simple things that people may look at as minutiae, but I needed to do that to ground and balance myself. So I did those things and I raised my kid and I enjoyed doing

4:30it. I enjoyed watching him growing and learning and being present for that. I just, I needed some time. I think that as a songwriter, you have to live a regular life. That's how you get inspired to say a thing or to emote a thing. I think it's really important to have that kind of balance. And did you take time off from actually writing as well or were ideas happening during the

5:01hiatus too? They happen. You know how it is. They pop up and you jot them down or you, you know, voice record them and you just kind of walk away from it for a while. You know, it doesn't go away. Sometimes it wakes you up in the middle of the night and you're like, okay, let me catch this thing before it's gone forever. I'm telling you, I have lost more songs to not getting up. Get up and record the damn thing. It's happening. It's a gift. You know,

5:32you got to get up and go capture that because once it's gone. Yeah. It's an important discipline for writers that, isn't it? That people overlook, I guess. You do have to force yourself at those moments, don't you? You have to force yourself or you'll miss it. And then what? And you can try to recreate it and you just might be able to do a good job at it. You know, you get lucky sometimes, but typically if you're getting that kind of gift, you got to acknowledge it and treat it as such.

The expansive 19-track album

6:01And it's a very substantial album, this, isn't it? 19 tracks. Did you set out to make something so expansive or was that just all the material that accumulated over time and you didn't want to let any of it go? It was actually a lot more than that. There were a lot more than 19 tracks and I had to scale back and scale back. My team that I trust, they kept saying, we've got to be careful. People, you know, people's attention spans are not very long and we might want to take

6:32that into account. I disagreed. I disagreed because the album is called To Whom This May Concern. And if you're the kind of person that wants more, you know, I wanted to be able to provide that. We settled in a very good place. I don't feel any negativity about it. So 19 is what we have. Right. And that title, To Whom This May Concern, is the idea that it's for anyone who cares to engage with what you have to say?

7:02Yep. It's for who cares to engage. Right. If it's not your thing, that's totally okay. But if it is, oh my, if this is your kind of thing, then it is absolutely 100% for you. There's a lot to find in there for someone who cares to engage, isn't there? I certainly hope so. I did a lot of layering. The way that the songs came is all different. It's never been the same way twice. Sometimes I'll get a line, one line. It's not the hook.

7:38It's just in the middle of a verse and then nothing. I'll walk away from it. Something else will happen. I'll get a beat. I'll get just a guitar. And next thing you know, there's another thing to say. Maybe I'll get a verse out of that. You know, I try my best not to push or force. I just want to allow it to happen as it does, particularly for my own writing. When I'm writing for other people, it's different. I want to get the job done. And what that typically means is that

8:11I spend quite a bit of time with them, laughing it up, listening, sometimes crying if necessary to create something specifically for them. Because the reality is they're going to be singing the song for the rest of their lives. And if it's something that doesn't resonate with them, then damn it, I failed. And I don't want to do that. You know, I want to honor them too. Makes a difference, I think. Yeah. I guess you've got to be sensitive to what they might want to say

8:43and their needs, but you have to know yourself as well. If you're writing for yourself, you have to be saying things that are appropriate for you too. Yes. Which is why the time apart from this world was so good for me because I had an opportunity to make some life changes and to address some things that were bothering me or troubling me or to create pictures for the listener that I felt was worth seeing and hearing. We were really struck by the chords and the melody on Off the Back.

Chords, melody, and double dutch

9:18Oh. Yeah. You have an ear for an unusual leap, don't you, when it comes to melodies? It is like jumping in a rope. Have you ever jumped rope? I'm sure we did in our younger days. Back in our primary school, yeah. Well, in Philadelphia and the United States, primarily, like, they jump double Dutch. Right. So it's two ropes at the same time. And sometimes you get in the rope and it's just straight up and down, up and down, up and down. And then sometimes you add things, different movements based on how you got in the rope. So I look at music like it's a rope.

9:55I don't know how I'm going to get in there, but I have to get in there. And once I'm in, I want to keep jumping. That's what makes Double Dutch so exciting. Off the Back of My Ancestals Off the Back of My Ancestals Since it's Annie Laurie, Shirley Dolores, Linwood Harry, David Lee, Amy Pitt, Warren Braswell. Blue, yep. I'm a part of the Braswell family. Blue, cousin Eleanor, A.D. damage, too.

10:33And most of these fragments that come to you that you described, are you putting those down a cappella in some way or are you working with a piano or a guitar or some other instrument? I put them down a cappella so that I can remember what it felt like. Now, if I go back later and I listen to the music and I try that same melody and it doesn't work for me, then damn. Damn.

10:59Try again, something different. And maybe it'll come back. Sometimes I'll just walk away from it and go, oh, I forgot what I was doing or when I came in. What was my timing there? Damn it. I'll come back later. I try to give myself a lot of grace because I actually really love what I do. And does collaboration play a part in these early stages of the music making or is that more of a solo process? I absolutely collaborate. This will probably be my template. It was originally my

11:30template and I forgot. My first album, I was in a studio with a bunch of amazing producers. So I would literally walk from room to room and there's a new energy, a new vibe. But I'd walk into this room and the words would just blurt out of my mouth. And I'm like, oh, let me write it down. Let me catch it because it's happening now. And I would walk in and sometimes get a full song from beginning to end. And the reason I was able to do that is because the musicians had structure.

12:01It wasn't just a beat that they were giving me and I'm supposed to come up with all of the things. There's a horn line. The guitar is speaking, not just playing. It's a difference. The drum is obviously keeping time, but it's also speaking. There's a difference. And that made things very, very easy for me to just walk into each room. And there were also, some of them were songwriters as well. So I'd come in with something, they would say something. It may not have been the right thing,

12:34but it was in the family that sparked the next thought. So that kind of give and take, that kind of musical community is really something that I want like forever and ever. I just enjoy that. So I think for maybe the next project, I'll just invite some of my favorite musicians in the world and let's give ourselves like a week or two if we can manage and create from there. I think that's probably my next process. Right. So part of it is your responsiveness then?

13:09Yes. It's so much better when you react to a thing, when there's just a physical, spiritual reaction to a thing. Like, oh, what's that? You know, it's like, ooh. Like, that's how I felt for the chords on a pressure. I was like, what is that? Is it dark? Slightly? Could it be something that today's Nancy Wilson might sing? Hmm. And if that's the take, what would I say to something

13:44that's slightly dark? It feels like pressure, not pressure, pressure. Right. So was it the sound of

The weight and pressure of image

13:55those chords that led you to that title then? Yeah. It just made me feel slightly heavy. You got to figure out what's the weight. That was before I reached the hook, which is very simple. But before I got there, that's what I felt, I felt like there was a weight. Now, what is that weight? What is the thing that's troubling you that could possibly be troubling other people as well? And it's that people

14:25are really looking only at the exterior of a person and making life decisions. We're not focusing on character or integrity or intelligence. It seems like the music that I hear so often is this person has money. They've got money or they've got this particular kind of look or body. I think we're shortchanging ourselves deeply because you've had a child with a shell. You know, either way, male or

15:02female, you've created a family with someone that actually may not even really exist. Yeah. That's troubling. So that was the beginning of it. Like, oh, okay. And then obviously when I got to the word pressure, I was like, there's just so much pressure to appear just like them. Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned the chords as well and how inspired you were by those because they reminded us a bit of Prince. The voicings kind of sound a little bit like the ballad of Dorothy Parker. I don't know if

15:37you can hear that yourself. I never did, but that's one of my favorite songs. Love that song. I listened to Under the Cherry Moon soundtrack. Oh, wow. I think it's called the Parade album, but I call it Under the Cherry Moon. I listened to that album for four years straight. I mean it like four years straight and can listen to it at any time. That is the creme de la creme for me of all the albums that I've heard. And I love Stevie Wonder's song in the key of life. I think that's fantastic. I love

16:11Chromacopia. Tyler, the creator of that. Yes. So well-written and implemented as well, but it's that damn Prince, honey. Ah, love him. Yeah. There's a kind of otherworldly quality to that track, isn't there? Almost like it's detuned or just off pitch slightly, but it just creates an atmosphere that's so kind of unsettling. And I can see why you came to that idea of pressure with a similar kind of unsettling sound, you know? Yes, but she's smooth. She's smooth. Everything else

16:47around it, is it? I wasn't de-esthetic. I guess, I guess I get it. So much pressure to appear just like them. So am I right in thinking that you like the material to be in pretty good shape before

Writing to execute and collaborate

17:18you get to the studio? Because I had an interview with David Banner recently, who I know did some production on the album? And he said, you once told him, I don't come to the studio to write, I come to execute. To implement. Yeah. I would prefer the musician do their work, the producer to do their work and not wait for me to organize it. I've had to do that several times on this album. I'm not a musician, so it takes a lot more time. And if there's something different

17:51that I want, if I've written something that's going to take us to a different direction, then we'll work together. But please give me a complete thought. Please. Is the verse just eight bars? Okay. Can I feel when you change? Have you added something to keep us moving? Andre Harris is really one of my favorite producers. He did a long walk with Vidal Davis for me, as well as Is It the Way. He just adds a little something every eight bars. And I just think that's genius. It's just a

18:24slight thing, but it keeps the listener interested and it gives me a propulsion to say the next thing. And I need that. We noticed the track Ode to Nicky as well. Is that a reference to Nicky Giovanni? It is. Right. Because that was someone you discovered quite young, wasn't it? Yeah. I think I was in the eighth grade, junior high school. And I had an English teacher who gave us an assignment. It was a whole bunch of names on a piece of paper. I just kind of swung my finger

18:58around and landed on one of them. I didn't want to do any work. Not really. But I landed on this person and I thought the name was nice. I was like, Nicky Giovanni. And I think I had only seen Nicky with a Y before. So I was like, oh, that's cool. And then I went to the library. I got a book. It's poetry. Oh. And there I was on paper. I never really saw that before. We've read Edgar Allan Poe.

19:31We've read Mark Twain. You know, all the things that you're supposed to read in school. But this was the first time that I actually saw myself on paper. And it's been a trigger ever since.

Poetry, Nikki Giovanni, and lyrics

19:43Yeah. It sounds like poetry has been really important to you. Sure. It's the way I speak. It's how I think. Would you say writing a poem is different to writing a song lyric? Depending. Depending. Can a poem become a song? I'm sure that's happened somewhere. Lovering. But Lovering was presented as a poem. But I added a hook. It made it a song. If I'm rapping, then yeah, it's poetry. You know, what is rap but street

20:16poetry? You know, so yeah, I guess so. You know, when the hook pops up, it becomes a song. And you started out as a spoken word artist performing poetry. How did you make the transition from spoken word to sung melodies? Did you always know that you had that voice? Was that like your secret weapon? It wasn't a secret. It was just mine. I felt comfortable sharing writing. I didn't feel comfortable sharing my voice. Not that I was uncomfortable with it. I just, it was mine.

20:48You know, it's how I self-soothe. It's how I remember things. It's how I'm kind to myself. Yeah, I sing little melodies all the time. Every day of my life, I just sang one to my assistant in the car. And they normally sound really bad, but they feel really good. I don't think that I've ever been a spoken word artist. I still write on paper. When I read poetry, I show up with a book that has my handwriting on it. I cross things out. I make little notes. Poetry is to be read. And spoken word

21:27is like, thus far, the best I've seen of it is a performance. The worst I've seen is monologues. But I think that they live differently. When you read Nikki Giovanni, you have to see and process and maybe go back and read again. I think poetry is best out loud. Yeah, that's just the way I differentiate the two. Spoken word and a poet. I think they're two different things.

21:59He is not trapped in a perpetual loop. They write sonnets owed to her mentality. They remember themselves. The costumes are hilarious. We are lifting. She is not cruel. He is not entertaining the poisoning. We are laughing at the futility. We are harboring none, none of their shameful tryings. We are lava form foundation. We have learned love is kind and its sword is cauterizing. We are not merely memorizing, strategically self-defining. Ain't not near coincidence. Nowhere we have opened our eyes and no X or Z guises. We are together, together, birds and feather,

22:33risen and rising, thriving, finding, finding the most beauty, the most hypnotizing, the most mesmerizing. And when you're singing these melodies that come to you, are you thinking about the shape of the words that match up with that melody? Or is it more like creating a really nice tune and then finding words that'll fit to that later? Oh, no. I'm a big proponent for onomatopoeia. Right. Do you know that one? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think that everything needs to be shaped for the emotion. I think that's what makes me a

23:09singer. If it's alone, there's a quiet after it. You know, I think that words should sound like what they sound like. Let's say, for example, on, is it the way? The first thing I say is, woke up this morning. But I said, woke. So you already know it's joyful. That's the way I process. I see. So the sound and the meaning and the performance are all kind of wrapped up together. Yes. Yes. All the things. Myself as an actress, as a writer, as a vocalist,

23:44all of these things, they live together. I need the words to sound like how they feel. Like, Ode to Nikki is meant to be a mantra. It's a march. It's a war call. It's enough already. Fitting in boxes and attempting to be so much smaller than we actually are as people. Generational curses and doing the same things in the same ways as our people did before. Like, it's enough. It's not working. I really want people to live joyfully.

24:19Holy. Yeah. How do you decide what topics or stories you want to write about? Are you conscious of themes when you start, or do those reveal themselves later on? They reveal themselves later on. I didn't know what this album was going to be. And there's songs that I feel that I miss. I miss them in the rotation. And I'll eventually put them out as well, probably as a bonus to this album. But I'll mix them in like I would have.

24:49The goal is personal revolutions. The line says, I was singularly minding my business. It kind of sounds like poetry. I felt like my love life had ended. I was satisfied. Believe me, I've got my friends and I've got my family. It is a testimony to being good with oneself and then surprise, surprise. You find someone who's also good with themselves. And there's infinite

25:21possibilities in their eyes. We say that the soul is in the eyes. To have that is a really beautiful thing. And I think we're all hustling, trying to find, relax, do your work, be good within yourself and your circle, that kind of thing. Trying to inspire people to weed their gardens. Not everybody is supposed to be in your garden. Some folks are literally in there just peeing on everything.

25:57You know what I mean? Just stinking up the place. We don't need that. Yeah. No, it's interesting because I sort of associate you with quite big ideas. Like I feel like you're interested in connecting with people and you're interested in humanity and home and all these things. But then it's like, how do you take ideas like that and translate them into a song? Because a song is quite a small, short vehicle for an idea, isn't it really? So what are your approaches to that? Do you talk about people? Do you pick out characters? Do you take things from

26:30your own life? I definitely take quite a bit from my life. I'm a Dali fan. I discovered him really early as a child. Oh, Salvador Dali. Yes. Yes. And from what I've read, sometimes he would put his urine, his blood, his saliva, his semen, skin in his paintings. And I thought very early that that is how you're supposed to make art. When we think of Basquiat, there's all of these images, but he's

27:06inside of it and you know it. You can tell. And I like that. I like the idea of that. It's a grand idea, but I definitely put myself inside my work. I mean, I would hope that people would feel the humanity in it, feel the woman in it, feel the experiences in it. You know, I'm flawed, but ultimately there's a lesson in all of it. And if I could like help somebody or at least shine a light

27:38on the thing. Cool. I like that a lot. Gives me purpose. And we touched earlier on how songs can

Spontaneous sparks and beautiful people

27:47kind of arrive in the middle of the night, sort of unbidden. And I think Rolling Hills might be one from the catalog that came to you in the middle of the night like that, sort of almost fully formed. Did anything on the new album arrive like that? Beautiful people. Right. That was a pleasure to be a part of. The words were going faster than my comprehension, really. It was just going. And I'm kind of reading slower than what I'm writing and congratulating myself.

28:19I'm congratulating myself on happenstance and whim. I was like, that's good. I was like, yeah. It's like congratulating and celebrating myself as I went along because it's like, this is it. Every time you listen to the album, it starts somewhere new. It does a thing if you allow it to do its work. And I love a body of work.

I love a body of work. beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful

29:18I remember there was a point where I said, I love cancels mountains. And I was like, yes.

29:39Our love traversed the seas. Our love is the art of war, for conquering all algorithms and wicked systems of things. I said, that's what you want to say, baby. Yeah, that's it. There you go. I patted myself on the back. Really am not speaking to any particular race or religion. I am speaking to beautiful people with good intentions. And when I say beautiful, I mean, it's from the inside first.

30:12Just, oh, we exist. We're out here. We're not aliens. You're not alone. It feels surface for me too, but it's not true. It's all a scam to make you buy a thing or think a thing or hate somebody else. I find kindness in all kinds of people. And I love that about me. So I think beautiful people is just one of those songs that as soon as Omaz started playing,

30:45I could hear it. Omaz Keith is an amazing musician. I watched him touch everything in that room. He just picked up a thing and just played the hell out of it. I said, well, damn. Damn. Everything he touched. Also, Kari Martin. I met Kari Martin when he was like 19 years old in the studio. He was like, quote unquote, a grunt in the studio. This young man played every instrument, every bit of percussion, every guitar, every bass.

31:19He created a movie. And when I heard his musical movie, I wanted to join. I wanted to participate with him. I think you've raised some interesting points there, Jill, about enjoying what you're doing in the moment and the people you're collaborating with and the song that you're creating. Because I guess a lot of songwriters, especially if something comes quite spontaneously, they think of it almost as like something they're channeling or maybe they're not fully in control of it. But hearing you talk about actually enjoying it as it was happening and taking some credit in a way, I thought that was really nice because you're in there shaping it and making meaning from it based on your own experience, aren't you?

32:00So that's important. It's good to be inside yourself. I hope that makes sense to you. I think that we might think too much. I think that our minds might get in the way of truly feeling a thing and experiencing a thing. Your mind can take notes, but we're supposed to be feeling it. How else do we pull inspiration if we're not feeling, if we're not thinking, hey, that's not good, that's not fair, or that's beautiful.

32:32And we're alive and lucky to be so and blessed to be so. Being aware of all the nuances of a life, I think that's what makes a writer and hopefully, in my case, a good one. Yeah, you've said in the past, I think that you could get lost in the creative process or in performance, like you're blacking out and waking up hours later. Is that a state you can access deliberately or does that just kind of happen when it happens? I can access it because I allow it.

33:04It's there. I believe that that's there for everybody. But you have to be fearless. You have to allow that. And if you can't find it, you have to hunt for it. So, as a performer, I'm on stage and I'm looking out at all of these faces, so many faces, all of this energy. Some people are dancing. Some people are crying. Some people are making out. Some people are singing along. And the energy that I need is within my grasp.

33:35I just have to find it. Oh, there it is. And then I pull from that. And then I give back what I'm receiving. It's accessible to anyone who wants it. It's yours. You're born with it. The capacity to emote and to receive energy. Isn't that life? Isn't that life? I think that's life. I think that's life. Yes, I'm in the clouds, in the trees, in the rainfall, in the leaves.

34:08Yes, in we, yes, in the leaves. Yes, indeed. In me is you, and you is me. Right here, right now. Right here, right now. Right here, right now. Right here, right now. Right here, right now. Right here, right now. Right here, right now. Right now. Right now. And you mentioned some of the collaborators on the record. Then there's others like Tierra Whack on Northside and J.I. Dion, to be honest.

34:41Yes. What draws you to a particular collaborator? Is it just instinct, or are you thinking about what their voice or style will bring to a particular song? I'm looking for storytelling. I mean, obviously, a skill set. J.I.D. is an incredible emcee. He can paint pictures. I like artists that can paint pictures with words. It's very attractive to me. So, yeah, I end up falling in love, you know, with Nas, you know, with Black Thought, you know.

35:13And I'm fine with it. Like, I love that. Someone who can paint a picture. Show me something. Let me see it. Please. Through words, through your intention, and obviously through your creativity. Tell me a story. I love being told a story. Didn't you love that when you were little? Sure. Nothing has changed. We still like that. That's what I think. There's a certain amount of theatricality to your performance as well, I think, which helps with that, with telling stories and getting things across.

35:44I read somewhere that you're a fan of people like Bette Midler, you know, people who bring a lot of theatricality to the shows. Bette Midler, definitely. Like, she was my OG. Sometimes she'd be so small on stage, and then she'd just expand in front of us. And it wasn't because the lights were doing something or because the camera zoomed in. It was her, and it still is. I love that. That's when you're mastering a thing.

36:15You use all your stuff, don't we? I think so. When you're making a meal, you're looking at it. You want to make sure that it looks attractive. You're tasting to make sure that the flavors go well together. You're, you know, setting the table so that aesthetically it's enjoyable. You know, you're doing a bunch of things at one time in order to make sure that your friends and family have an enjoyable meal. Playing some music in the background.

36:45Opening a window. All of these nuances that makes for a lovely evening.

The living, breathing live performance

36:51Are we right in thinking that you regard the recorded versions of songs as kind of secondary to the live performance? Like, in performance, that's where the song really comes alive and finds, like, new levels? Yeah. I think that recording a song is so people can learn the lyrics. But performing the song is really where they get an opportunity to feel all the feelings so all the things come together at once.

37:21Because I don't typically sing the thing the exact same way ever. It's a requirement for my band, for the musicians that travel with me. Do not. Just don't you dare. Just play. Play that melody. Don't you dare. I need you to live inside of it. And, yes, play the notes so we're not all off-key. But put your story inside of it, please. If you're doing a song like A Long Walk, I need you to access what it feels like to be comfortable and free.

37:59Because we've got that, but some nights it's, and that feels a little bit different. And then some nights it's, and it all depends on the audience, too. You know, some places, like you go to Japan, they don't say anything. They watch.

38:29And you don't know if you're doing well or not. You feel it, like, okay, you know, I'm going to give you a show. You pay for a show, and I'm going to make sure you get your money's worth. And you don't know until you're 10, 15 minutes in, and they're still applauding after it's over. Like, yes! And then you go to Scotland, and they're literally pulling the bricks out of the building. Yeah, they know how to have a good time up there. Yes! And then that changes things. Or in Amsterdam, where they're listening intently, and then they explode, and then they're quiet.

39:03It's a joy. It's a joy, and it's always new. Come on, come on, let's take a long walk around the park after night. Find a spot for us to spot conversation. Urbanization, denulation, share our situation. Temptation, education, relaxation, elevation. Maybe we can talk about something in entirety. I guess that understanding of performance must feed into the way the songs are actually written

39:44in the first place as well, to give you that opportunity to then do that stuff. If I don't like it live, there's a problem. And if I don't like it live, then I'm probably going to restructure it. I have 17,432 versions of Is It The Way? I have 900,000 versions of A Long Walk, and Golden, and Jesus. I've written a lot of songs, I'm grateful for that.

40:15But I switch it up so it doesn't become stagnant to me. You know, that it's always a fresh thought and a fresh feeling. You know, that I can find the light in my eyes, in my spirit. And is that like a natural instinctive response to what seems to be happening in the moment then on stage? Or is there actually a lot of hard work that goes into making it sound so relaxed and so natural? There's a lot of hard work that goes into making it sound relaxed and natural. The best acting advice I ever got from a coach was, be that guy.

40:51Got it. So that means relax into being whatever this character is at this moment. Live inside the song. That's one. Two, rehearse it, rehearse it, rehearse it, and then let it go and allow it to breathe and be. You don't want to rehearse to the point where you're just, it's paint by numbers. That's painful. I hate that. I've seen it. It's not for me. I don't think it's fair to the audience.

41:22So you rehearse it so you know it. And now you're free to expand when the feeling is right. Because that bass player just did a thing and you're like, oh, what? It's communication. My requirement is that you have a large vocabulary in music and that you're fearless. And you are speaking. I need you to speak with your instrument. Those are my requirements when I hire musicians.

41:55And that you can also understand my speak. Not everybody speaks the way I do. I recognize it. I wish it was a little more simple, but it is what it is. This is who I am. So sometimes I end up telling them stories in order to get them where I need them to be. You know, I'll bring in something to taste or I'll wear a certain color. It's all very intentional. I need them to be where I am. And they normally inspire me to go other places that I didn't expect. And I like that.

42:26That's a good night.

Crossing genres without boundaries

42:27Another thing we love about the new record is it spans so many styles. Thank you. Over the course of that sort of hour. Yeah, it's just amazing to us. You can have Northside, Pay You on Tuesday, Right Here, Right Now all exist on the same album and still kind of make sense together. Are you conscious of genre when you're creating? Do you ever kind of set boundaries for yourself stylistically or do you just kind of follow wherever the song wants to go? Boundaries in art?

42:59Just as a kind of writing tool, maybe I'm going to write a song in this style today kind of thing. Or is it more a case of it's just a free flowing thing and wherever the song needs to be, that's where it needs to be? Probably sometimes. I just have a lot of ingredients in my recipe. So what I thought may be the entree ends up being a soup, you know, like trying to think about intentionality. And I love when people are like really intentional and they're like, this is the kind of album that I'm going to make.

43:29And this is the kind of music I'm going to have on it. And this is who's going to produce it. And I love when somebody just knows what they're going to do. And I just really don't. I don't. I am so free with it. So I have to listen to a lot of different kinds of music because I don't know what's going to inspire me. I have a metal song. I've got a couple metal songs in my canister. But I'd like to make sure that I have a pretty big palette.

44:02I don't know. I just allow, allow, allow, allow. Do you feel like your writing has changed or your process has changed since, say, the days of Who Is Jill Scott? Or is there like a constant through line in the way that you approach things? Well, for Who Is Jill Scott, I say this because I want people to understand. It took me 27 years to write Who Is Jill Scott. Now, in the studio, it didn't take that long. And primarily, I was on like a bus, you know, writing.

44:32So I had all the music already. I had like eight or nine of the songs from Who Is Jill Scott already. And they were primarily already produced as well. You know, they added things like Larry Gold and his wonderful strings for Is It The Way. And He Loves Me as well. But I had the crux of what this was going to be. So it was just a free flow write. And then, oh, here's another one.

45:03Oh, and this one feels like this. I would love that in a perfect world where I could just get a booklet of great music that, you know, I could just write to and then learn it, unlearn it, and then go sing it so that it's true. But it doesn't work like that. I hunted. I hunted. I called a lot of producers. I called a lot of musicians. I got bits and pieces of things. I pieced them together, added another musician. I changed keys.

45:35I did a lot of maneuvering. I added things. I took away so much. So this one was a lot of work on my behalf. I don't regret it. But in a perfect world, I would just get a bunch of great music and then create it, you know. But I don't know if it would make this. There's a lot to be said for effort and a work ethic. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It's a good thing. And maybe next time. Maybe next time I'll have the God send me Smokey Robinson, you know, and his level of writing, you know,

46:11these wonderful songs that last forever. Maybe I'll get that. Maybe I already did. We'll see. I think you should put those metal songs out. Well, Jill, this has been such a pleasure talking to you. Thanks so much for telling us all about the record and how you think about the process. Thank you. I'm hoping that we're going to inspire musicians to pick up their instruments too. Oh, I think so. Especially the bass. I was going to mention the bass playing throughout the album is top draw.

46:44Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Very, very happy about that. Love a bass. Well, on that note, we'll let you go. Thank you so much. Thank you. I appreciate you. Likewise. Take care, y'all. That was Jilly from Philly.

Reflecting on the new record

47:27The vibrant Jill Scott talking to us about her new record, to whom this may concern. An absolute joy to spend an hour in her presence. It was. Yeah, loved it. She had some lovely ways of describing her process, didn't she? A variety of metaphors in there. Mm-hmm. Weeding the garden and cooking meals and all kinds. Yeah, and all of those things, you know, are activities we participate in during our everyday lives, and that's clearly important to her, to spend time living and not thinking about generating material all the time. Exactly, yeah. Not that she's closed off to writing during those times, as she said, but it just increases

48:01the chance that she'll have experiences and new thoughts to actually use in the songs. Yeah, and of course, a lot of her lyrics reflect her lived experience, don't they? Yeah, and she really appreciates and enjoys the people she collaborates with as well. And it seems like she creates an environment where they can express themselves quite freely, especially live, in a live context. Absolutely, yeah. And, you know, just because a song is being recorded, that doesn't mean it's being set in stone, does it? You know, songs can be like living, breathing organisms that grow and change with her and with the band and how they're all thinking and feeling at any moment.

48:35Yeah, it's kind of Dylan-esque, isn't it, in terms of the versions that she does live? Yeah, and clearly she demands of her musicians that they bring that openness to the performances as well. Yeah, and that fluid, open attitude comes across stylistically in all that variation on the record, doesn't it? Oh, in abundance. And, you know, evidently she doesn't entertain the idea of boundaries in art, and why should she? Yeah, yeah. And maybe that's why she loves Prince's Parade album so much? Very possibly, yeah. You know, of all his albums, that might be one of his more diverse records.

49:08And she has a similar attitude, doesn't she, to traversing genre and time? Yeah. And using her voice in all kinds of expressive ways to get that across. She does, yeah. And as a result, the new album's such a rich, rewarding experience. And, you know, you've just got to immerse yourself in it and let Jill do her thing. So go check out To Whom This May Concern. And thanks to Jill for being so damn cool. Cheers again to Don A for organising. And we'll be back with you presently. Take care.