iPhone Duo Steals the Show, Apple Watch is Always Listening, LG TVs Are Spying on You

Apple week and event introduction

0:00It's real, and it's spectacular. Welcome to Primary Technology, the show about the tech news that matters. It's Apple week. We have a brand new foldable iPhone, a brand new form factor. We're going to get into the use cases, the software, how it's different, how it's kind of an iPad, kind of an iPhone. Plus, Apple Watch will literally be listening all the time. The privacy implications of that with live replay and Siri recaps. We did get new AirPods 5, what we might be upgrading to. And yeah, iPhone 18 Pro is also out there with a variable aperture. And Jason's like a real life photographer,

0:30so we'll get his thoughts on that too. This episode is brought to you by CleanMyMac and you, the members who support us directly. I'm one of your hosts, Stephen Robles, joined by my friend Jason Aiton. How's it going, Jason? It's great. It's been a lot, Stephen. It's been a huge week. We were talking in the pre-show, which if you're a member, you get the unedited feed. I've been recording hours and hours of videos. Jason's been writing, writing and writing, all the things. I was hanging by a thread in that intro, so I wouldn't have to edit it later. I don't know if you could feel that. It was like a bicycle going downhill and you're about to lose your balance and you just hope

1:01you don't hit a rock. That's exactly what was happening in real time. Because I have to record a whole other podcast after this and I want to get this out before I do that. So anyway, it's a big week, Jason. And so we're going to get right to it. Do you know what the quote was at the top? It wasn't a movie. I cheated. It's a TV show. Tell me what it was again. The actual quote is, they're real and they're spectacular. Oh, wait. Yeah. You know what it is. It just triggered a sense memory. I saw it hit you. This is like a 90s sitcom, late 80s, 90s sitcom. I can't place it. It'll come to you. When we're

1:36recording the rest of the show, I just want you to shout it out the moment it comes to you, even if we're talking about the most in-depth iPhone duo topics. It's the West Wing, right? No, no. When it comes to you, it's going to come to you. Oh, I know what it is. Just shout it out when it comes to you. Anyway. Seinfeld. Yes, it is. It's Seinfeld. Of course, I'm talking about the iPhone duo, but that's from the show. Five-star reviews. We're past 500, but keep dropping them. We had no five-star reviews this week, but we're probably going to have a bunch of new listeners today. We would love for you to drop a five-star rating review in Apple Podcasts. And let's get right to it. The event started with,

2:11I think, one of the most poignant handoffs between CEOs. There was a whole opening montage filmed on iPhone 18 Pro, which we're going to get to later. We're going to start off with a duo. But Tim Cook made a little appearance, guest appearance, and he said, no, no, no. I'm not your guy. That's your guy. And I thought it was really a nice handoff to do in the video. And, you know, it's weird. We didn't get this before with the last Apple transition. And this feel, it felt right. It felt good. How'd it feel to you?

2:42Well, I thought, I wrote, the reason I wrote about it was, I knew I was going to write about it as soon as it happened. And we're like two and a half minutes into the thing, right? And I was like, oh, this is cool because a lot of people in our circle were like, I wonder, you know, Tim Cook will walk out there and he'll hand an iPhone duo to John Ternus and they'll talk about it. I'm like, that's definitely not going to happen. Apple is not a company that's nostalgic about its former, you know, whatever employees. I guess he's still an employee, but like this felt like the right thing to do because it acknowledged Tim Cook and then he handed it off. It was like the

3:14most Apple way to do it. It wasn't too much. So I thought it was great. And I think it says, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not me. That's your guy. That's your opener. Well, what was great about it though is you recognize his voice immediately and he starts doing it and they, they scripted it. It was very good writing. They scripted it very well. And then all of a sudden he's like, no, that's your guy. I love it. Whoever wrote that at Apple, kudos. It was a wonderful transition. And we're going to jump to the end of the event because John Ternus got to do one, his first event as CEO,

3:45and he used his one more thing. I feel like he got, you know, Apple execs, they always have to keep their powder dry. When are we going to use the one more thing moniker, which was the famous Steve Jobs thing? When will we be introducing the next iTunes match? We've got to save it for that. Was that a one more thing? Yes, it sure was. Oh, that's I, it ruins actually the one more thing. The miss the mystique of it all because they used it for iTunes. As long as it wasn't ping, you know what I mean? As long as ping wasn't an idea. Is iTunes really like that better of a one

4:16more thing? I don't want to garner a bunch of comments and I know this will, I still pay for iTunes match every year. I pay that $25. Do I know why? No, I think Apple music covers it all, but I'm not going to stop paying for it because I have a bunch of music in there that was uploaded during my college days. Name. Anyway, we don't have time to get it. We definitely have time to get into it. I'm just saying, I think the iPhone duo was a little more worthy than the iTunes match. A hundred percent. I think he used it well doing it. His first one, a CEO. Now we don't have to

The new folding iPhone duo

4:45wonder like, when is the first time Johnson's going to do it? Apple shipped a folding phone and this was rumored. Journalist Mark Gurman has been talking about this for months. All the rumors were correct. It's the two camera phone, titanium, the hinge, Johnny Surugi, the Apple Silicon Goat talked about how there's like a hundred components in this hinge. They've minimized the crease as much as possible. I want to show a couple of clips from some of the creators that are on the ground and we'll link them all in the description as well. I do want to point out, Apple had a hilarious

5:19TikTok, which whoever does their TikTok game is different than whoever does all their other social media. There's the, do you see this, Jason? This is the making of iPhone duo. It's a romantic dinner table and it's iPad mini sitting across from the iPhone air. And I just have to say, that's pretty good. That's pretty amazing. That's pretty good. Uh, but that is what it is. Um, you know, when you look about what are iPhones made out of the iPhone 18 pro and 17 pro line is aluminum, the iPhone air and now duo is titanium. When you open the iPhone duo, that screen size is like an iPad mini. It's

5:54seven something inches, which is turns out IMAX ratio. So you can watch the Odyssey literally as Nolan intended. I actually use that word on purpose on the iPhone duo once it comes out. So there you go. It should come pre shit preloaded with the Odyssey. Just open it up. The first time you open it just starts playing the Odyssey before you even set it up. Just play. So, you know, you put, I just set up a new Mac. You ripped the little paper thing off the screen. It goes boom. But on the iPhone do, it just starts playing the openings credits of the Odyssey. No, it just plays. It just plays

6:25Odysseus on the boat, screaming at the sirens. It just goes right to that scene or the pig scene, but I can't talk about it. I feel like we can't, there's so many videos and great content out there about the specs, like you were saying in our pre-show. And so you said you, I've watched every video I could find on YouTube about the iPhone duo until late last night. So I want to share them with you because one, an interesting aspect, and I don't think any of the videos covered this specifically, is the inner display is nanotexture. It is a matte finish. And you can tell in all these videos,

7:01it is very much not a glossy screen, but the nanotexture, this is Brian Tong's video, which I'll link below, which one helps reduce the visibility of the crease in the middle. But also this works with Apple Pencil with USB-C and that nanotexture, at least from my iPad Pro experience feels really good. But yeah, that very much nanotexture. I don't know. What'd you think? What'd you think about the nanotexture? You love nanotexture. I do love nanotexture. It is interesting. And I feel like the main reason they did this is to hide the seam of the crease. I don't know because no other iPhone has it. And there's nothing particularly

7:33different about a duo that would warrant nanotexture over like a normal iPad mini for that matter. Like you can't get nanotexture on an iPad mini. So it is kind of interesting. I don't know if it's just meant to feel like a more premium experience. I don't know. What do you think the Venn diagram is of people who are going to buy this, who have a USB-C Apple Pencil? Well, I'm going to have to buy a USB-C Apple Pencil. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It doesn't work with the Pencil Pro. And the reason is because you can't magnetically attach it to the side.

8:05Like that, there is a reason for this. Right. And that's understand, like I understand the technical limitations. I imagine one day we might get like an Apple Pencil mini that works with this. Maybe, maybe we'll get it. So yeah, I'm gonna have to buy a whole Apple Pencil just to use with this. Wait, why would you buy an Apple Pencil to use with this? Jason, I'm going to try editing podcasts on this thing. And it's going to be wonderful. I cannot wait. Because to be real, I have edited many podcasts on my phone using the FairEye app when I'm traveling. If I'm on the go,

8:38we do a daily show. So I do podcast editing every day. I've edited full episodes, not of this show, but I used to do Apple Insider. I was traveling and I was working full time elsewhere. I would, I've edited full podcast episodes on the phone and I don't prefer that. I really enjoy doing it on the iPad, especially with the Apple Pencil. And I spent a year editing the Apple Insider show on iPad mini. So I know exactly what that feels like. And the fact that I could have a phone in my pocket that I open up and edit a multi-track podcast with Apple Pencil

9:13on that device in my pocket seems really interesting to me. And I want to try it. That's why. Yeah. That's a, that is a reasonable use case. And it does highlight where the iPhone duo really sits, which is because somebody was like talking about how no one wants a device that's this size. There's nothing to use a foldable device for. I'm like, really? Because I think Apple sells a lot of iPad minis and that's just this. And if you bought an iPhone pro and an iPhone and an iPad mini, you basically got the price of an iPhone duo, right? Right. Let me ask you, let me ask you right here.

9:43Do we think the iPad mini is dead because this, no, definitely not. It has a totally different audience of people. This is just for people who want both. I have an iPad mini and I very rarely use it. It's my sits on my nightstand, usually dead because it does not hold a charge. So I have to charge it up anytime I want to use it, but it's my sit on the back patio device. It's like, here's the device when I don't want to do anything else. It's basically a glorified Kindle. It's a Kindle with the Apple news app and it's Safari so that I can like do that kind of thing on it.

10:14But I don't want to be distracted by it. It's actually perfect because the Instagram app on an iPad sucks. So I'm not going to be distracted by that, right? Like it's so terrible. It is bad. And so I just, it's a good, it's a good device for that. And there's a lot of people for whom that's, they're never going to, they're going to just keep their iPad mini and their 17y iPhone or whatever, or like there's probably a lot of people who have iPad minis who don't have iPhones. Yeah, that's fair. Let's see if we get an updated iPad mini anytime soon. That would be interesting because this display, which is a pro motion display. So you get 120 Hertz, the inner display,

10:49which is over seven inches is also an always on display. iPad mini has none of those. iPad mini has never had pro motion. Obviously it doesn't have an always on display, but this means Apple could technically make a seven inch display that's pro motion. And that iPad mini would go nuts. I would love that iPad mini. We'll see though. I don't know if I would want $1,200. Well, we'll see. Yeah. That's the other thing you can get iPad mini on sale for like 500 and this is a $2,000 device. So I feel like the software story to me has been the most interesting experiences.

11:22I've seen other creators posting about it because this is, this is iOS, but this is a very different iOS and it is not iPad OS either. There is an entirely new paradigm that's going to, people are going to have to learn if they want to use this device for multi-touch gestures, for multi-tasking, like you can pin two apps together by swiping down between them when you have them on split screen. And even the dock being on the right side, the status bar, which I was going to gloat and say, there's no

11:52battery percentage anywhere on this device, uh, and say battery percentage off long live battery percentage off. But if you watch the little animation during the event, the wifi symbol in the top right corner of the iPhone duo display, that's actually cellular connectivity, wifi and battery all in one. And so it seemed like that semi-circle on top, even though in all the videos, it's just full, which might be an Apple software trick. They just want it to look full on all these demo devices. Uh, apparently that's the battery percentage. So I still haven't found

12:25one that actually shows it depleted, but we'll see. But yeah, there is battery. I don't know if you'd be able to turn battery percentage off. It'd be hilarious if that toggle is just not even on like available. As God intended. Well, yeah, I would say that. So this way you can, it's just off all the time. You don't get that. It's going to be on all the time. No, you don't see, there's no battery percentage number anywhere on the iPhone duo screen. So I think it's just off. Oh, this one's a little depleted. So this was Nicky as Molina's video, which I'll play in a moment and I'll link all the stuff below because they're really good. I think Nicky has actually did one of the best.

12:56He did like a full on walkthrough of the device. His video is almost 10 minutes long where a lot of other creators, like two or five minutes, but you could see this semi-circle in the top right corner of the phone and it is slightly depleted. So that is the battery measurement around the wifi symbol. To be fair, if this iPhone, my iPhone had that indicator, I might not need the number. This just indicator is completely useless. This, the semi-circle in the iPhone duo is, it gives you a much more accurate picture of the percentage. One thing, one other physical thing before we talk more about kind of the

13:29software, this is the first time Apple has done an under display camera. And so when you have it open, the, when you turn on the center stage camera or the front facing camera, it is under the screen. It will disappear when you go back home and you kind of see, go back. But in some shots, like right here in Brian Tong shot, you can still see that whole cut out. Now, when you're actually holding the device in person, it probably won't be as obvious. I think just in this lighting and how we, you know, whatever it's doing right

14:00now. But yeah, under display, under display camera on this and on the iPhone 18s pro, pro and pro max, the face ID is actually under the display as well. It actually moved to the corner rather than being in the dynamic Island. That's what one of the things that offered or allowed the dynamic Island to be smaller. So those two things under display, FaceTime camera and under display FaceTime. I feel like this could mean one day, maybe for the 20th anniversary iPhone, we could technically have an all display front and still have a camera

14:33and face ID and no hole punch at all. I thought that was interesting. Maybe, I mean, they had to like do that because otherwise it wouldn't, I feel like the main reason for it is it wouldn't be like, I was going to say centered because, but the actual, I, your actual camera on your phone is not centered either. There's the whole dynamic Island though is, so you just treat it as a whole thing. So, but I think it's interesting. I don't know. Does that seem necessary to you? Like what do you, why do you, for real? I feel like the dynamic Island has become such

15:04a part of the iPhone that they don't need to, like you're saying, I feel like, but on the other hand, if when you're opening it, the context is an iPad, which has never had that right in the right on the camera for an iPad has been on the bezel, which this doesn't really have room for that. Also it'd be foldable. A foldable camera would be sweet. Right. Right. So the software story, the one demo that all these videos run through, and it seems like the one Apple partnered with the closest is the Netflix demo. So you

15:36can do things like with the hinge, put it in a 90 degree format, the iPhone duo, you can have the video playing on top and then you have full on controls on the bottom. They're blacked out. And then if you touch or start swiping on that half of the screen that's on the bottom, you can have the play bar, you can have the play and pause and there's a, Oh my goodness, I don't know what happened there. And there's also the Netflix demo where on the outer screen, you could have the vertical Netflix. And then once you open it up, it will actually reformat

16:06the video to fill the inner screen. I'm curious how many apps I'm, it's surprising it's Netflix and not Disney. Honestly, I feel like in Apple vision pro and a lot of times Apple work with like the Disney plus app, like the Disney plus app has immersive environments as does HBO. Netflix does not. And Netflix doesn't even have an app on the Apple vision pro, but for that phone duo, Apple partnered with Netflix and they did all these interesting things with the outer and inner display and the controls on the bottom. But this is like a whole new paradigm for using an Apple device. Yeah. And I don't know that they partnered with

16:38Netflix. They just said, Hey, we're doing this thing. Do you want to refresh your app to work here? And the fact that they didn't do it for the vision pro is just cause like you and I are the only people who have them and you don't use yours. Hey, listen, listen, I put it on the other day to watch an MLB game, at least 15 minutes of it. And that was pretty fun. Great. Steven only uses his vision pro on airplanes. I use them everywhere except exactly. Did you bring it on that road trip by the way? I sure did. I did not use it though, but I did bring it. Well, you didn't use it at all. I didn't end up using it. That road trip

17:10was like a experience. Steven, we'll talk about sometime. Okay. Very good. Uh, one, a software thing though, about the keyboard. So if you've ever typed touch typed on iPad in vertical portrait mode, you know, it can be a little, it's difficult. You know, if you have the keyboard all together, you have to really stretch your thumbs out, especially if a larger iPad, there is the split keyboard. And so it's the similar issue here with the duo, but Apple has given you the option. And this is your average consumers YouTube video that I'll link below. There is a full width

17:44keyboard when you have the iPhone duo open. So it's a super wide keyboard. And then there is the option to split it. So you can have it closer to each thumb. I don't know if you've ever like typed with the split keyboards. I always find the split ones very difficult to use for me. Like I can't, my brain doesn't work like that. And so you can rotate iPhone duo to that vertical orientation and then do the full keyboard to thumb type. It'll probably go better, but yeah, I'm probably not a split keyboard guy. Do you ever do that? No, I don't like split keyboard at all. But did you

18:15notice I feel I, this could be because I was doing six things at once while I was watching. So if I missed it, I'm sorry. I feel like the only time they showed the duo in a vertical orientation was when there was like a video with controls at the bottom. It's like Apple really wants you to think of this as a wide format device. Do you know what I mean? Like, did you see, I don't remember Apple really pushing this as a device you would open up and then rotate 90 degrees and use like in the normal orientation you would an iPhone. Does that make sense? I understand what you're saying. They

18:45do have like, there was a video throughout, well, throughout the event, but there was, I'm going to try and scrub to it. They have a bunch of scenes of people using the iPhone duo, like walking around the house or whatever. And they do show it in multiple vertical formats. One of them is even like iMessage, just big vertical. And they do, I think, show it with maybe a video and iMessage. I'm going to try and find it. Also shout out Craig Federighi. I think, I don't know if we've seen him in an iPhone event in years, right? Yeah. He's not typically in the September event.

19:18Yeah. So that was interesting. But there's again, a lot of software going on with the iPhone duo. So there's the, uh, towards the end, I can't find out. I don't want to spend the time just scrubbing to it, but there's a point where people are walking around the house and they're using iMessage vertically. And interestingly, they, they even show a moment where someone's watching Apple TV vertically. And it seems like the iPhone duo will automatically crop or resize to fill the display if you turn it that direction. So I think you can do it. And they, they show it with the Apple

19:51pencil. Yeah, you definitely can do it. Sorry. Just to be clear. I'm not saying that you, but it did seem like, well, there you go. Great job. Thank you. I actually found a lot. And this is the iMessage format, which this is weird too. There were MKBHD mentioned this in his video, the dock, when the iPhone duo was closed is on the right hand side. And there doesn't seem to be an option or setting to move it to the left hand side. So left or right handed, you have to use it on the right. Uh, also the dock can't hold any more than four icons. MKBHD tried adding a fifth. You can't

20:22add a fifth, but it's like the UI is very much like you're going to use your right thumb to do dock stuff and access things like the control center or whatever. But in this shot, which is during the live Apple event, this is at one hour, two minutes and 55 seconds. If you want to look it up, this is a vertical orientation of iMessages with the inner display and the conversation tab is on the left. And so there seems to be this weird and you know, this is a first device. Like we don't even

20:53have it in hand yet, but it's like, okay, is the paradigm like you're on the right hand side, you're going to have the dock controls message conversations that on the left or is to depend on the context. So it's going to be interesting, you know, see if that changes before launch or how that works. I don't think that'll be weird for people though, because a lot of people put their Mac dock on the right hand side. I don't understand it, but they do. And there's a difference in this is the way messages you're used to, right? Like you're like, it would be weird to suddenly switch to that, to move the messages wherever, because your messages is the same on every device. You

21:25have, you have the options on the left and you have the stuff on the right. So, well, but honestly, like it's, this is a new, like kind of way to display messages, having this conversations in a thin line on the edge. And then your conversation bubbles large, taking up probably four fifths of the screen. That's not on any other Apple device. Sure. It is. It's on your Mac. Just drag the, just drag the divider over. And that's exactly what it looks like. Hold on. I'm here on my Mac. I'm dragging the divider over. Oh, shoot. You're right.

21:57Yeah. It's been that way for a very long time. They just, they just took that so that it doesn't take so much space. Like that's not new. I was already going to award you being right points when we got to the Apple watch and now I have to do it again. I have to do it again. Okay. Uh, Nila Patel, he was on the live verge cast. He said he could not figure out how to get the video to split like it does right here. It seems like if you have video and picture and picture, you can, if you're split screening an app or you have another app on screen, you can hit the expand video control. And then you have like a half and half or this, this feels more like two thirds,

22:3340, maybe 60, 40 split. Well, and the video aspect ratio, I think they're trying to keep the video aspect ratio, but being able to do that two upside and drag and drop, drag and drop has been on iPhone for a long time, but it was undiscoverable because in order to do drag and drop, you need two fingers on the screen. You know, if you wanted to drag a photo from the photos app to messages, you have to tap and hold the photo with one thumb, start dragging it. So it's moving around and then swipe home with another finger, go to another app and

23:04then you can drop it. And that mechanism on iPhone, I rarely, if ever used it and didn't make much sense, but now, Oh, drag and drop makes total sense because on iPhone duo, you can have photos on one side, messages on the other, just drag photos into a conversation and yeah, it'll work great. So drag and drop on iPhone finally makes sense. Which what you just described for most people, it makes no sense because if you're in your photos app, you can just hit the share sheet and you can just send it to a message or something. Or the way that sane people do it is you take a screenshot and while it's down at the bottom,

23:36you hold that and drag it to whatever you want to do. And that works perfectly. No, that's like, no, that's the, that works perfect. That's the janky way to do it. Cause then you got black bars and you're going to spend time cropping it. I'm not going to crop it. I'm just going to send it to the people. No, that's, Oh, that just pains me. Hang on. I got to send Steven some stuff. I'm taking away all being right points because you're so wrong about this. Well, also I'm not saying that's the best way to do it. I'm saying that that is the way people use drag and drop on the iPhone. People do use, well, that's how people share stuff is via screenshots. At least if you're over a certain. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not necessarily

24:08advocating for it. I'm just simply saying that this is the way same people are doing it. They might be wrong. Sure. Anyway, the drag and drop thing also works like if you're in Safari and you see an image, maybe in an article or you did an image search, you can tap and drag that image over into a conversation. So you don't have to save it to your camera roll. So there are other options. You can also drag a messages conversation to reminders or to notes. But anyway, we don't have to get into it. I bottom line, I'm going to have infinite content this year because I'm going to have 1000 tip videos on how to use iPhone duo with various gestures. So yeah,

24:41I'm excited about that. I will be really interested. This is no shade against you and how well those videos do, because I still don't think that many people are going to be buying the duo. So this, I'm curious about this. Let's just talk about it now. I was not thinking I would be tempted by a foldable phone because the phone is good already. And there's a bunch of concessions that if you go with the iPhone duo that you have to give up versus a pro model, if you were on the pro model. And actually, let me hit that first, because I think that's important. If you go with

25:14the iPhone duo versus the iPhone 18 pro, or even the 17 pro has some of these features, here's what you're giving up. There's no face ID on the iPhone duo. It's touch ID, which probably fine, but there's no face ID. Totally going to be fine. It's totally fine. There's no action button on the iPhone duo. So if you're love the action button, I use it for shortcuts. There's no action button. You give up the telephoto lens, the two, you get two cameras on the iPhone duo. It is the main 48 megapixel and a 48 megapixel ultra wide. They said telephoto during the event. And there were several creators that said it has a telephoto in their videos.

25:49It is not a telephoto lens. They just talking about the two X digital zoom or the sensor cropping. So you get a main camera and an ultra wide. Those are the two. So there's no telephoto lens. There's no spatial photos, which is interesting. You can't capture spatial photos on the iPhone duo. No pro raw. So again, that's a pro feature, no pro camera controls. So in the event, Apple announced all the manual white balance F stop. Obviously that's a variable aperture thing. The histogram, there's a manual focus feature, which we'll get to. There's no pro camera controls

26:21on the iPhone duo, no spatial video. So like no spatial photos, you can't capture spatial video on the iPhone duo. There's no pro res video. There's only a two mic recording array. The iPhone pro has four mic array. There's no lidar on the iPhone duo, which is again, who uses lidar? I don't know how many people use the measure app a lot, but there's no lidar on the iPhone duo. And again, you it's not compatible with a lot of MagSafe accessories like MagSafe wallets. So that's the laundry list of things that concessions you have to make. If you want to go iPhone duo versus iPhone pro and you don't get the Apple reference image and you don't get Apple

26:54reference image. Thank you. And I believe that the iPhone pro still has generally better battery life. Yes. As far as like the time that Apple is saying, like video app video play hours a day or whatever. So those are all the things you don't get with the iPhone duo. And all of that being said, I'm looking here at my 17 pro max and I'm like, I might give all that up because I think I do want a folding iPhone. I think I want a larger screen to run can do my project

27:27management. It's going to look great on that inner screen and all the columns. I am on the go a bit. And I always have to ask myself, is this a moment where I want to bring my iPad to do something like edit a daily podcast episode? Or do I try to do everything from my phone? And the idea that I might not have to make that choice, I can just take this phone with me. And as much as I love, I love the telephoto camera on my iPhone. There's some very specific use cases I use it like my kids dance recitals or my wife's concerts. I like getting as close as I

28:04can using that telephoto lens. And it looks great. If we're on a trip, I will use that telephoto lens all the time. But it's not something I use daily. And that feature that Apple officially announced at the event, which is the hand off your cellular plan. It's like, we're going to make it as easy as possible to have two iPhones, your weekend iPhone and your work iPhone. It's like I might give those up for the iPhone duo and holding this case from Moft. Moft sent me like a prototype of their iPhone duo case, which is I think this is the size. I don't know. I'm really tempted by this. How what

28:37about you? How do you feel about it? It's hard because I do like foldable phones. And I am really excited about one that runs iOS and not Android. And I've used probably a half dozen at this point, pixel folds and galaxy folds at different times. And they're all great, except for the fact that Android is just not good on a large screen. It's just not like Android has many benefits over iOS. If that's the thing that you care about, fine. It's just not good on a larger screen because in the

29:07reason is not Google's fault. It's just the apps are not designed for that. It's just not. It's just the way that it is. Apple has the advantage of they just created all the all their first party apps are going to be incredible. And they're going to make it relatively easy for developers to adopt that as well. So that's all great. I just think that I don't know if I'm going to be willing to give up. Like the camera is the most important thing to me. And I don't know that I'm going to be willing to give up that because, and maybe it's just as a photographer, I just care about that. Like, like the iPhone air is amazing. Not being able to shoot pro raw when you want to,

29:44like that's tough. Like not being able to do like the, like the, I use the eight X more than I should on this, this iPhone pro like, and you're not going to be able to get that quality on the duo. And so also I don't want to stand there with this little chunky thing to take pictures. That just feels weird. And there was, this was mentioned that Neil, I mentioned on the verge cast first, but like concerts, people holding up their phone to capture video of concerts, the iPhone duo is going to be just insufferable. This seven inch screen. Everyone's going to be holding up an iPad basically

30:14to capture. Not, I mean, again, there are, well, I just don't think there's gonna be that many of them in the wild. I could be wrong. I think it's going to be great. 2000 bucks is a lot though for a phone. You can lease it for a hundred bucks a month. If you would like, you should not, but that is an option. That is an option. I, one thing you can do. Okay. Is go, go to photos on your Mac. It has to be a Mac, create a smart album. And I'll have to get the details of what smart album, what are the, what the lens is of the telephoto on your iPhone,

30:49because you can create a smart album and then see all the photos you took with that 4X, 8X, uh, lens on your iPhone 17 pro or pro max in one place. And you could see how, how often did I actually use this camera in the last year? And when you look at that smart album, like I'm, I'm looking at a, the album I took before, which is with the 5X lens of, I think the 16 pro and like, there's some cool photos here and I'm glad I have them, but it's not a, a camera I use all the time.

31:24Now we'll have to talk about the variable aperture when we get to the 18 pro, because I think that is another, you know, aspect of, do I want the best camera in my pocket possible all the time, but it's really when I'm on trips, when I'm on family trips and I'm at special events, that's when I use the telephoto camera. And so there's a, I know when I'm going to use it and will the benefit of having a larger iPhone screen, maybe even with Apple pencil, like if you love jotting notes by hand, like all those remarkable devices, like the remarkable move

31:56that you have, like people can now get the option to do that with their phone. This is the first time an iPhone has ever had Apple pencil support. And so I think, I think this will foldable phones in the Android world have a very, very tiny market share. All that data has been out there. I think this, I think we're going to see more of these than you think. I think you're going to see these out there. So for context, estimates, estimates are that these are like analyst estimates is that Apple could sell roughly 10 million of them. Okay. Now Apple also has said that they're going to be,

32:28well, the rumor, the reporting from our government is that they're, that they're going to be supply constrained. So they may not sell 10 million of them. They can't make 10 million of them. I think the estimates on the iPhone air, I, I know I read this, I don't know how accurate it is, but the estimates were like that they sold less than a million of them. Okay. So more than that, but how many, how many iPhones do they ship a year? Is it like 60 million? No, it's like 250 million worldwide. Oh, I see. Okay. So this is a very, very, very small percentage of that, right? It's less than half. It's like less than 5% of iPhones. So what I'm saying is I just don't

33:03think you're going to think about all the people who get new iPhones, less than 5% of them are going to have this. And then there's all the people who don't get iPhones every year. Right? Like, so I'm just saying, I don't think we're going to see very many of them. I don't think the concerts is going to be a problem because there's not going to be that many of these in the wild. Well, the, the only other, the only other data point that I will say here, so maybe I can get getting right points one day is the iPhone and having the newest model is a bit of a status symbol in other countries, as well as here in the U S and the iPhone 18 pro and pro max look exactly like

33:36the 17 pro and pro max. There's different colors. The cherry color. That's why that exists. I know that's why that exists. But if you just feel like the temperature on social media and what people are excited about, people are not excited about the 18 pro. And I think just the fact that people are excited about the iPhone duo is going to encourage people to get it so they can show it off so they can use it in the public. And so I think we, I think you're going to see more of these than you think now it is. The price is prohibitive to some people. And so that is going to be a factor

34:09that holds them back. But I don't know. I think we're going to see a lot of these, honestly. Hold on. Okay. Steven is my friend. So I'm about to say something that makes it sound like I'm criticizing Steven, but I'm not in what world is it a status symbol? People who make YouTube videos and either get review units or buy them and return them in the real world for the most people outside of like, I don't know, some circles in New York and on the West coast. Like, I don't think that this thing is a status symbol for most people will think it's cool. Yeah. But I think about everyone

34:43I know, I can't think of someone I know that doesn't make content for a living, which is a very small number of people. It's just a large number of the people that are in the same sphere as us. That's what I'm saying is like, I just don't think that we'll see. I guess here's what I'm saying. Even if it doesn't get wide adoption because of the cost, when you see famous people at tennis games and you see music stars at basketball games, I think over the next year, you're going to see more iPhone duos than

35:14pro maxes. And whether that actually converts people to wanting to buy it this holiday season, I don't know for sure. Cause again, the price could be prohibitive, but that's what I mean. Like, what are you going to see? Cause it's always the, the shtick is like whenever there's a famous person or there's like a group of famous people or some famous person is taking a selfie. It's always an iPhone. You never see him holding a Samsung galaxy, whatever. It's always an iPhone. Well, I don't know. Google just handed out a bunch of phones to people.

35:45They use it the two months after their event and then they go back. Okay. You know what I mean? When Jimmy Fallon pulls out a phone on the tonight show, it's an iPhone. He's not using a galaxy, anything or a pixel in January. You know what I mean? Like it's just not, it's just not. And so what phone will that be come early 2027? And I will, I think we might see more iPhone folds in that context. And then again, like to your point, it might not convert to people buying it more. Like it might not be wide spread amongst the masses, but I think we're going to see more of it in the

36:18cultural oeuvre. We'll say. I cannot wait to revisit this in January. I'm making a note. Okay. We'll revisit. We'll revisit in January. Come, uh, come those. All right. Last thing on the iPhone duo, then we have to talk about the Apple watch. Yes. The cases for the iPhone duo are complicated. So Apple released this iPhone duo folio with a kickstand. Chance Miller, nine to five max said it's so cool. He got it in person. Nowhere. Do they show someone using this

36:49phone closed in this case? Because I think that front flap is just going to be flapping in the wind. And I don't think Apple wants that anywhere right now. And so cases that cover the entire phone are going to be odd because it has to open to use the front screen and then open again to use the inner display. And so I'm very curious how case makers get around this. I've seen some like from D brand that there's these kind of like border type cases. And Apple has one of those too. It's like a silicone case that you can, um, it goes around all the edges and you can leave it on all

37:24the time and it doesn't cover anything, but it's going to be an interesting accessory season to see like what, how does all this stuff work? Uh, so we'll see. I don't know. I didn't even look at this up, but did they put, it should have magnets the way that the iPad does so that the smart folio just stays closed on it. And it seems to have that, like this doesn't go around the edges of the iPhone duo. This seems to just be magnets that it's attached to the back. Uh, and it does, the iPhone duo does have MagSafe to be clear. You'll be able to charge it with a puck. It is not

37:56compatible with MagSafe wallets and it does not like if you go to the MagSafe wallet and you go to the, um, compatibility, iPhone duo was not here because of that squat shape. The MagSafe wallet is not going to fit. And so we're going to see a whole other line of accessories for the iPhone duo because it has to fit in that tiny space below the cameras. Yep. So, so we'll see. And the cards, I mean, your driver's license is not going to change shape because of the iPhone duo. So that would be amazing. That's why they spent all of this effort with digital driver's licenses.

38:26All these years they were playing the long game. That is a very long game. I mean, I, the reporting that I read was that Ternus has been working on this thing for 10 years. So it's not out of the realm of possibility that they really have been playing a long game here. That's amazing. Okay. We have to get to the Apple device that is actually always listening to you going forward. But before we do, we can take a break and thank our sponsor for today, which is CleanMyMac X. We're also in new Mac season. Maybe you got a new M5 Macs or maybe you have an older

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40:35CleanMyMac for sponsoring this episode. All right, Jason, this is where I award you being right points

Always-on Apple Watch audio intelligence

40:42because for many years, you have talked about many years that we've been doing this show, the two years we've been doing this show, you talk about that the Apple Watch is the perfect AI device. And when this happened in the keynote, I was just freaking out. I wish I was doing a live stream so people could have seen because Apple just took a full on shot at all those random AI hardware devices that promised to record audio and give you transcriptions of what it recorded. Apple Watch is just going to do that now built in. So real quick, before we get to the audio

41:15intelligence features, there is a all new health sensing system that is going to capture your heart rate every five seconds, I believe 60 times more, it's going to be measuring your heart rate. You also get heart rate variability, more accurate readings there. And Apple also took a shot at Whoop and all those other accessories. They didn't mention them specifically. But during the keynote, they're like, we tested this in labs against all the other wearables. And Apple Watch is the most accurate heart reading wearable you can get. And so a very loud subtweet, you could say at all the

41:49health devices, trying to say talk about accuracy, things like rings, Apple Watch is saying Apple is saying the Apple Watch is still king when it comes to accuracy and heart rate. Also, there's a whole new readiness score and a vitals, the vitals app you can see during the day, you'll be able to see how ready are you as far as like, pace yourself today, and it's going to take your activity into account how you slept, like your heart rate, all that data, you're going to get a readiness score every day to let you know, like, how ready you are. That's why a lot of people wear the Oura Ring. The Oura Ring gives that kind of how, you know,

42:24what state your body is in and how ready is it for exertion. You're going to get that right on your Apple Watch, you can check it during the day as well. And you're also going to get some interesting features like your age, like your health age versus your actual age. And so like your fitness and health is at a certain level, I tell you like, you're actually a few years, quote unquote, older than you actually are. And so that longevity and health stuff, you can take assessments in the iPhone app. All those were interesting. And it's still just bottom line, if you want health, heart tracking, the notifications for that kind of

42:59stuff, it feels like Apple Watch is still the thing. So health is still number one. Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. I mean, and I think that that I know that there are people who will pick nits with that claim. Is that, I don't even know if that's what you're supposed to say. Yeah, yeah, I think that's it. Because, wow, just pulled that one out. I don't know. But because I know that people, that is actually one of the things that people typically use as a criticism of the Apple Watch is like, I use this Garmin thing and my heart rate says this and I use the Apple Watch and it says this and, and then I use one of those things. And I've had this experience where you stick the thing

43:32on your finger, which traditionally are the most accurate, I think, in those cases. And they all are different. How are you all different? But Apple is definitely has, I think they have for a long time really positioned the Apple Watch as a health thing, right? They have just leaned all the way into that. This actually feels like they took it to another level because they really wanted to focus on like how they are improving the sensors and how that that's going to translate to better information about health. And I think, I mean, lean into what you got, man. That's like what people

44:04think about the Apple Watch. And I think that, I think it almost feels as though they're a little bit like sour on the idea that people are like, well, the Apple Watch is great. It's a down the road middle of the, you know, whatever consumer thing that also has some health benefits. But if you're a serious athlete, come on, you got to get one of these other things. I remember ATP, Marco had this whole long like segment on picking and picking a watch device for this walk he was doing or whatever. And a lot of people who go down that path end up with something other than the Apple Watch. And I think Apple really wants to push back on that narrative and really have people lean into the idea that the

44:38Apple Watch is the best device for tracking health. Right. All right. Before we get to the audio stuff, ceramic is back. If you missed the Apple Watch Series 5 ceramic finish, that was the only other Apple Watch model that had it. You can get it. And you can get it in blue ceramic, right? Blue ceramic or pearl white. Jason, I'm going to be real. I ordered the pearl white. You did? You ordered the new Apple Watch, Stephen. I did. Listen, I'm still on the Ultra 2. And, you know, having the blood oxygen or the,

45:10yeah, the blood oxygen thing, like whatever. I never look at that number anyway. So I want like, first of all, battery life on the Ultra 4. Apple is advertising two days. So you're going to get better battery life on the Ultra 4 and the Series 12. The ceramic finish, I missed getting the ceramic Apple Watch back in the day. And I don't think I could afford it at the time either. So I did not want to miss it this time. So I got the ceramic Apple Watch. But yeah, you can get that. The Ultra 4 is also out there. But we got to talk about...

45:41I don't like the ceramic, just so you know. I know. I'm just want... I just don't... I don't love that as a watch thing. It feels too precious to me. Well, we'll see. I'm sure that it's not. Just to be clear, Apple's got pretty good material science, people. I'm sure it's fine. It just feels kind of precious to me. And I just know that like... And I'm actually not rocking anything today because I don't want it listening to me. But... Wow. But... Actually, I just forgot. Yeah, yeah. But the Apple Watch, the Ultra 2, it'd be hard for me to upgrade from that, to be honest.

46:15Really? Yeah. Well, it's like... I don't know. I don't know what... Well, especially considering what we're about to talk about, I'm not sure what benefit I would get. All right. We need to get your thoughts on that. So we'll see. I also ordered an Ultra 4. Because I got to try both. So we'll see. I'm not going to keep both because... Because you're not an insane person. Well, and I enjoy the Apple Watch Ultra battery life, the size, the screen. And I did get a Series 11 last year just to try it. I didn't even make a video about it because I was like, I just want to... Like, how does it feel? And I don't prefer the smaller watch anymore.

46:47I like the Ultra size just on my wrist. So we'll have to see when it actually comes. But Audio Intelligence got a whole section during the keynote. And there's features like Sound Recognition, which this has been on your iPhone for years. But now your Apple Watch can do it, like recognize a doorbell, a smoke alarm, a baby crying, and you can get notified of that. And then there were two features they talked about. Now, I want to try and run down real quick. So all the asterisks with these features. So Live Replay allows you to on Apple

47:19or Live Rewind, excuse me, you can double click the crown on your Apple Watch. And it will show you a transcript of the last 15 seconds of audio that was around you. So the example they give during the keynote is if a server comes to your table, reads off the specials, and you didn't catch it, double click the crown, and you can see a transcript of that audio on your watch. That is the live replay. And then you can do Siri recaps, which will provide summaries of things that happen during the

47:59day. And you can read those summaries on your watch or your phone later. And so it is ambiently taking notes on your conversations throughout the day and creates Apple intelligence generated summaries. Now, here are the caveats because I went down this rabbit hole. I'm going to link this support article that talks about these features in depth and what they are and how they work and the privacy implications. And I will link this PDF that Apple has on their website talking about audio intelligence

48:29privacy overview. And it goes into great detail about the secure exclave, not enclave, you know, face ID, touch ID, that's the secure enclave on your devices. This is the secure exclave. And I am still not clear, because this says the iPhone 16, 16 Pro, 17e Air and later models, they contain a secure exclave as well that processes the raw audio. And so it seems like you need the

49:01Apple watch to do this. Like you can't do this with just the iPhone. But I have gone back, back and forth. Right now, and I've reached out to Apple to hopefully get a final answer. But it seems like in order to use Siri recaps and live replay, it requires an Apple watch series 12 or ultra four, that this feature would not be on the iPhone specifically. This PDF, sometimes it's, it seems unclear. So I will follow up. Why does it seem unclear? This is the Apple watch feature

49:31exclusively. Because I thought the secure enclave is what enables this. And this PDF is saying on the iPhone, it also contains that same secure enclave that processes raw audio and it contains secure environment. Well, it's the exclave. There are two different things, but that that's like saying you could have a device that has this hypothetically has a secure exclave, but doesn't have a microphone. Like the fact that it also has that is not the limiting factor. This is an Apple watch feature. It is not an iPhone. Okay. Okay. And I think multiple times it says the S11 chip is what enables

50:02this feature. And that is Apple watch only. Yeah. So I think, I think it's safe to say you have to have an Apple watch series 12 or ultra four to use this feature. And it's just, yeah, it is. It's an Apple watch feature. Just like you, you cannot do the ECG on your iPhone. You have to have it. No, no. I mean, it's the same thing. So I just, I wasn't trying to be like, well, but that right there is another sensor. That's like a physical hardware sensor. We're talking about a microphone here. Like, okay. That's, that's a fair point. But I guess my point was that yes, it is just a feature of software, but that software is watchOS feature, not iOS feature. Right now you can see the Siri

50:38recaps on your phone, but yeah. Okay. So you need an Apple watch series 12 or ultra four to use this feature. A couple of the privacy points that is in the Apple support article. The audio is never accessible. So as these devices for Siri recap specifically, well, and live replay, which listen, the watch has to be listening to do live replay or the Siri recaps. So it is cap not, it is not, I want to be careful about the words here because the audio is not

51:08recorded and it is not accessible and it is end to end encrypted and all of that. So Apple says audio flows into a protected buffer inside the S11 chip secure exclave. It is a hardware isolated compartment built into the Silicon of Apple watch and iPhone that processes sensor data separately from the rest of the system. So it is listening all the time. So we can do this Siri live replay and

51:40Siri recaps. But even in the Siri recaps, which could be providing recaps throughout the day, if you're at work and you have eight meetings, I imagine you would have eight recaps at least, maybe more. There is no speaker attribution. So you, there's no marking like who spoke what you can never go back and listen to the audio. Siri recaps do not contain a verbatim transcript. It is only a summary and bullet points. So there is not a full transcript that you just read the entire conversation. Uh, it's not available for users under 13 users under 18 on a child account need

52:15to, it needs to be enabled by parents. And for Siri recap specifically, you can have it. Well, first of all, all of this is opt in or out. So you can turn all this off and you don't have these features active for Siri recaps. You can dictate. I want to only have this happen at work. So by location, you can only have this happen at times. You could say, don't do Siri recaps at night, like when I'm home, or you can just enable or disable from control center on the Apple watch. So you have control whether it's on or off, but for years and years and years,

52:49at least I have been trying to explain to people that their devices are not always listening to them. And I can't stand, I can't do that anymore because if you get an Apple watch series 12 or ultra four, it seems like they are in fact listening to you all the time. Well, okay. And this is actually super useful point to sort of spend a moment on because I think that that's why your iPhone doesn't have the audio recognition features because there's a whole different level when

53:21an iPhone is constantly listening. Now, part of what's confusing in the reason I think that you, that the privacy information was a little bit confusing. You do have to have an iPhone that is a 16 or newer for these features to work. If you have an iPhone or an Apple watch 12 series 12 and an iPhone 15, you don't get these features because for both the rewind and Siri recap, the processing happens with the phone and those phones have an exclave, which is where it happens. And for the

53:52Siri recap, it actually uses private cloud compute. So it actually goes to private cloud compute to do those types of things. So you do have to have that, but that is different. So the fact that your watch has this feature that's listening all the time, I think Apple felt like that was a much more palatable bar to, to, to, to hurdle to whatever, to clear a hurdle to go over then having your iPhone listening all the time because they have spent so long trying to convince people that their iPhones are not listening. And, and the iPhone is a much more potential threat vector than the watches. And so

54:30imagine the malicious. And I know that what I'm saying is sort of, is not just hypothetical. It may not even be possible because you know, we're only pretend developers, so I don't really know, but just imagine the ability to have always on listening on a phone, what an app might try to do to bypass like those protections and have, you know, meta would love for Facebook to be able to listen all the time and show you ads about the things that that's what people think is happening. So I think that that's why it's just the way you have to have the watch to do that. Now, I don't think that makes

55:02it better. I think this is, I think this is bad, Steven. Really? Okay. So this is what I want to think this is useful, incredibly useful and super bad. So I want to show this. This is in the privacy PDF. This is the Siri recap, which is in beta and launches later this year. This is not coming Monday with iOS 27, which Apple did make official iOS 27 is dropping Monday, September 14th. But here you can see there's a merit manual control option where you can only have Siri recaps active. When you

55:32manually enable it, you can have it based on places times or always on. Now here's the thing. I see the value here. And if I still worked at a place where there were a lot of meetings, this might be the deal. And this is why plot AI exists as a company. This is why, what is it? Amazon's be something, the wrist recordable. Joanna Stern tried that. I mean, Apple is trying to position this as you don't need a dedicated hardware device to record audio. We can just do that. You're not going to

56:07get the audio, but if your goal is to have transcripts and summaries, we'll just give that to you. I have also worked in places where with this feature being like just existing in the world, I can see a lot of overbearing managers being like phones on the table, watches on the table. We're all going to go to control center and turn this off right now. I feel like there's going to be a bunch of places that that that's going to be the thing now. And because you can know if it's off, like you can

56:41have it just turned off and be in manual mode and it not be doing this all the time. That does not like there's no outward signal to someone else doing it. And that's the thing that people have been making the comparison to metaglasses on social media. And it's like, yes, the metaglasses can be bad that way. At least there is a light letting you know it's recording. In this context, if you have Siri recap on always on, there is no visual indication to the people around you that it's on your Apple watch, your iPhone. Like there's, there's nothing to show other people that this is,

57:14is active. And I think in some workplaces where there's a lot of paranoid bosses, this is going to get really awkward. And they're going to ask like, what series Apple watch do you have? Is that the new watch that does that recording thing? I feel like a lot of people are going to have to deal with that going forward. Yeah. And I don't know like what the level of awareness of this is going to be in most office places, but I know that like I've been in meetings where they weren't controversial meetings or especially like whatever, but where people are like, don't record. Right. Because if you record, you've created a record. And if you create

57:50a record, there's an expectation that that record can be used by other people. What if you're in a meeting and someone gets fired and then they just, they sue the company and then they demand discovery of every meeting that they were in. And you're the one who has the Siri recap of that. Now, all of a sudden it's like, you've, you just created a record that's in, if you've created a record for yourself, someone else could demand that from you. Right. Like, and I just feel like the whole privacy document does talk about how it respects the people around you. And I want to be clear. I don't, I don't mistrust Apple on this. I, I a hundred percent believe that Apple has designed

58:24this in the only way possible to respect people's privacy. And they, they are playing a little bit of a word game when they say that it doesn't create a recording because technically it's listening to audio and turning it into bits. It is creating a recording. It's just not accessible to anyone, including Apple. It's like the point they're trying to say is you can't subpoena people for these, for these recordings because they do not exist as recording files that can be, that can be used, but it has, in order for it to transcribe it, it has to have created some kind of like a digital version of it. So there is a recording and they just don't want you to think of it that way

58:55because the framework that we use in our brain is very different when it's a recording versus like, Oh, cause I do this a lot. I will record interviews. And I said, do you mind if I record this? I won't share the recording anywhere. I'm just doing it to transcribe it. And people are like, yeah, that's totally fine. Right. And it's on me to just never share that recording with anybody, but there is a recording for it. I just think that this is, this is a super useful feature. I think it's, I think it creates a very weird dynamic now where you, and maybe I do think about

59:27this more because I have heard people say things in like in a Starbucks and I'm like, Oh, I should write about that. I'm like, Oh, but I didn't, they didn't, they didn't know I heard, they had no expectation that I would have consumed that information and then retransmitted it publicly. And I feel like this is the same thing. That's tough. Yeah. So two other data points, the summaries for Siri recaps are auto deleted after seven days, unless you explicitly save them. So you have to actually go in and say, keep this summary in order for it to be saved. And to your

1:00:02point, kind of in the privacy support article, it talks about omitted content. And it says Siri recaps are designed to omit potentially harmful content, such as language that promotes self-harm or hateful speech, sensitive information, such as financial data, government assigned identifiers, authentication data, and certain personal identifiers. And it says, be mindful of those around you while audio is not recorded and stored and no speakers are attributed. Consider those around you where conversations might be private or sensitive. Consider those around you is not a control.

1:00:37Like you're just leaving it up to somebody's better angels and we just know people and the omitted content. Stephen, how's that happening? How are they designed to omit this? Right. Well, it has private cloud compute has to be parsing what this is and then making the judgment call and moderating the content. Correct. That is correct. Which I am sure Neil Patel will talk about the free speech angle of this because I feel like if you had a conversation

1:01:07about some financial information, maybe we're on a, with your financial advisor, maybe you're talking to your financial advisor and he said something and you forgot what he said and you're like, oh, let me check the Siri recap. Is it going to just be like, not there? Is it going to be like, yeah, you talked to the financial advisor, but we can't save any of that, you know? Right. Or this random person was cursing along the street while we were having this conversation. So it just omits things, but like, why would, that's not Apple's judgment call to make.

1:01:38Right. But it's, they're going to make it apparently, seemingly, but they should not. Right. And you know, you were talking about workplaces and all that kind of stuff. Yes. I think there's also a lot of toxic workplaces where this can be a problem because there are meetings where people say, let's not record this because we're talking about a sensitive situation. Maybe so-and-so has a health issue or whatever. But I think there's just a lot of paranoid toxic bosses that are going to flip out when they hear this. And that is going to make

1:02:08people's lives harder. Or toxic employees who are just looking for ways. Because Stephen, I think we underestimate the amount to which we just depend on the past, depend on the fact that most people either a forget things that we say that are stupid or the friction to share that information outside of the bubble, the cone of silence or whatever, the bubble, you know, the, what is the meet the fuckers? The, the being in the circle together, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we just, we really place a lot of our trust in the fact that just human nature most of the time is it'd be too,

1:02:44it'd be too much work to like copy and paste this and put it on Twitter. But now you've like literally created the ability for every conversation you've had for someone to just pull that back up and be like, this is what, this is exactly what he said. I just don't, I don't think that we, I don't think we're prepared to be on the record all the time. No, really. I think we just being off the record is super beneficial. Not just because you might like, I'm not talking about just liability, just the fact that like we, we just, we talk different to each other. Sure. I mean, you and I don't,

1:03:16we talk about this all the time, but like this is it. Because we're always being recorded. We're always recording. Although, although, although there've been times where you have said, I'll tell you after we stop recording. That's true. There are, and that's usually because I want to talk to you about a thing I can't talk about to our audience. Yeah, yeah. No, I know. But, and in, in our particular situation, my Apple watch wouldn't have been able to hear you because it's in my headphones. Right. But it's, yeah. And the last thing I'll say about this, we don't have a lot of imagery or details about what this feature is going to look like on the phone. Again,

1:03:47it's not coming with iOS 27. It's later this year. But if you look at the bottom, in the Siri AI app, I guess there's conversations and there's recaps. I assume the conversations is just your conversations with Siri AI. Correct. So it's not like, here are the conversations you had today. It's just the recaps is just what's there. But it has like a timestamp. It has how long it seemingly were captured. So it says like 10 minutes and it also says work. And there's a tiny little sliver at

1:04:17the bottom of this image where it says 838 AM, 10 minutes, home. So it is giving you like, this was a 10 minute conversation you had at home or had at work. And this was the time it was had. And so, I mean, it's, it's timestamping. It's telling you where it happened. It's giving you the summary. I don't know, man, this is, I'm curious, the public reception. I think that there is better than, there is a better than 15% chance that Apple has to change this. And I point to the CSAM detection thing, right? Where everyone was like, yeah, we think

1:04:50that getting rid of CSAM is probably a good thing. We do not think it's a good idea that you're scanning everyone's photo library, even if, and I, they would take issue with the fact that I just said, I know they're comparing it with hashes. They're just comparing hashes to a known database, right? Of things. And in the, in, but what was happening is if the hash matched, they had the ability to then send that photo photo to Nick Mick to actually have a human reviewer, which is not the way people expect their photo library to work. Right. And so I think that

1:05:23the way we expect conversations with other humans to work is not this, even if they're doing it in the best possible way. I think there's a better than 15% chance. I'm not saying it's a huge chance, but it is not a 0% chance that Apple's like, yeah, this isn't going to work. I am curious because they did say later this year, no dates, no month. We'll see if this actually ships. And the last thing I'll say, if this does ship and we have audio intelligence in this way, the whole rumor about the AirPods with a camera make a lot more sense because you could take all these

1:05:57privacy documents and verbiage and how it talks about how the data is processed and just copy and paste that, replace audio with video. And you can see where AirPods with a camera could be, where video is not quote unquote accessible to anyone. It's not captured. It's low res, secure exclave, all this stuff. And then you can ask Siri AI, what was that poster I saw on the subway? And a Siri recap can like provide a, these are the visuals that were around you or whatever. Like I can see the path

1:06:31to that AirPods with a camera rumor, but we have to see if this actually ships. Well, also though, you can, you're right. All of those words you just said to most people though, sound like yada, yada, yada. You're listening all the time. I know. I know. And it was already a fact, like people already said that all the time. I, there are people in my own house. I can't convince. And now I definitely won't be able to convince because it actually is. Because it's actually going to be the case. Because Apple just turned it into a feature. Because I'm getting a new watch and I need to know, are you going to get a new watch, Jason? Because you're on the ultra two right now. Yeah. I do love my ultra two. Do I? And I, the thing is everything I, okay, here's my dilemma.

1:07:06I'm super, keep thinking I'm wearing it and I'm not, but I don't think I could go back to the, the non ultra because I really liked the amount of information to get on the screen.

iPhone 18 Pro camera updates

1:07:18Yep. And I like those watch faces and I like the battery life a lot. And even on my ultra two, the battery life is still great. And I got an OG good ultra two with all the parts working. Same. That's what I exactly have. Yeah. I think I would have to upgrade to the ultra four. And I just don't know if I want to spend $800 on a new Apple watch. That's my thing. For sure. You can get, I checked my trading value. You can get 250 bucks for your ultra two, just so you know. I mean, that almost makes it better. Yeah. Almost. No, I mean, for real, that almost makes it a palatable thing, but I'm still just not sure

1:07:50because honestly, there's nothing about the, the ultra two, the bet. My battery life is still very good. I can't check it right now. Cause again, I forgot to put it on this morning, but I feel very weird. I feel very disoriented by not having it on. I'm sure. I'm sure. Well, I got two coming, so I'll let you know. I'll let you know how they are. All right. And we'll record this podcast twice over one with my watch, one with my microphone. Uh, we have to get to the 18 pro, but we have to have a interstitial moment here for a new Apple subscription, Apple care one family. So Apple

1:08:23care one launched last year, a number of months ago, and you could have a subscription for your individual devices where it would cover six devices or some devices that you can read devices. Sorry. You can add them on. Then you add them on for a certain amount. Well now September 14th. So Monday, same day as I was 27, Apple care one family will be available and it's going to cost $50 a month or I believe $500 a year. If you want to do the annual plan, which sounds like a lot of

1:08:54money, but here's the thing. This will cover an unlimited amount of devices. So, and you don't have to like piecemeal it, add devices to the plan or not. All the devices in your iCloud family will be covered with the Apple care one family plan. This covers iPhone, iPad, Apple watch, all the things you there's three claims a year or for an individual or six claims per family. So what it

1:09:26seems like that means if you do the Apple care one family for $50 a month, you get unlimited devices under Apple care, but six claims per year. So if your kid breaks his phone six times, he used all your Apple care that year and you don't get to replace another devices. So it is a little bit of a trade-off where previously it was, I think one to two claims per year per device, depending on what plan you were. So if you drop your iPhone 17 pro, you crack the screen, you can get a replacement

1:09:57or you can get the screen fixed. You drop it a second time, you can do it. And so that will still be true with the family plan, but it's, you have kind of like a bank of replacements and claims that you have to do. Also a funny footnote, Apple vision pro. You can have six Apple vision pro devices at a time covered under Apple care one family. If every person in your iCloud family has an Apple vision pro, they can all be covered. There you go. If every person in your iCloud family and you have six people in there has a vision pro, let's talk. I want to do a story on this.

1:10:28Yeah, let's do a story on this. And so I'm switching to this 100% because I can tell you I'm already paying more than $50 a month for Apple care because I have two kids with iPhones. They each have an Apple watch. There's multiple iPads. My oldest son now has a MacBook pro. My wife has a MacBook air iPad phone and watch. I have like, it was getting super messy. And I was also unclear what devices were covered or not because the Apple one subscription is really weird

1:11:01trying to add an additional device and all that. So one, I think I will save money too. I don't think I'm going to use those claims per year. We probably use two to three claims per year and I can just have all my devices on Apple care and not even think about it. I am, I'm, I'm down. I'm sold on it. It's going to be a tough sell in my house because we had a son who broke his Apple watch. Yes. He has an SE and he's like, and they were going to charge us 60 bucks or something, 69 bucks

1:11:31to repair it. Yeah. That's the deductible on it. And he's like, well, what have you been paying all this money for? And it's like, you better use all those six, six Apple care incidents a year. And you bet in the, they better all be iPhones. Cause I think the deductible on an iPhone is a lot less than it is. I don't know. Isn't it 20 bucks or 29 bucks or something like that? Something like that. But iPads can be expensive too. If that breaks, I just am saying like 50 bucks, man, you're committing. But I guess if you're already paying more than that, that's what I think. I feel like I'm paying more. Like, and that's the other thing is too, is I get random Apple receipt emails, like six bucks.

1:12:03This is the problem is every month I have to explain 14 charges. That is just Apple. And it's like, what is this for? And I'm like, honey, I don't know. I promise you our card hasn't been stolen. It's probably legit. And so I'm, I am sure. And I'll do the math once it launches, but I'm sure I'll save money on it. So yeah. Also things we didn't get real quick. No new Apple watch SE. So only the series 12 and ultra four, no new iPhone air. That'll be next year. iPhone 18, no base model. iPhone 18, Jason, we just have the pro models. Did you notice though, they said the iPhone 18 pro and iPhone duo pushes our entire iPhone line forward or something like

1:12:40that? I'm like, wait, what about the other with, with iPhone 18 pro and iPhone duo, we pushed our entire iPhone lineup forward. Yeah. What about the other ones? There's more iPhones. There's an air, a base iPhone and iPhone 18 E. They didn't even update half of the iPhones. Nope. Nope. So I know, are they going to do them still next year? I think next year it'll be 18 E and 18. Then why did they say we've pushed our entire iPhone lineup forward? Oh, cause they're all more expensive. That's what you think that means? No, I don't know,

1:13:11but they did retroactively raise the price on the older. Sure. But I just, that is a weird thing to say. Oh, I still have more iPhones to introduce. It does not make sense. I know, but it's, they'll come next year. Bottom line, uh, iPhone 18 pro. It's amazing that the pro model iPhone is just not, it's just not getting the airtime, uh, this year, but new colors, burgundy and glacier a 20 pro chip is the first two nanometer process chip in an iPhone has two neural engines. It's got one more GPU than the 17 pro smaller dynamic Island. Like we talked about the variable aperture,

1:13:43which is wild. So there's the physical six blade aperture in the camera. You have four different aperture settings, uh, that you can choose manually, but it will also auto adjust throughout the day. There's photographic styles three, which is interesting. There's focus peaking, which I'll link the Verge's quick two minute video on it. But Alison Johnson shows the camera, the pro camera controls. And in those controls are also in addition to shutter speed, histogram, all of that, there is manual focus. And so you actually get focus peaking and manual focus built

1:14:17into the camera app. This is not really taking a shot at, but I'm curious how apps like Halide and obscure a camera, how they deal with some of these controls now just being built in to the iPhone. There's also smart focus tracking, which looks like a really cool feature. Tap an active subject and your iPhone will automatically focus as it moves around the frame. You can do cinematic mode after you capture video. Cinematic mode is also up to 60 frames per second. You get improved low light performance. Time lapses are now 4k. Previously those were 1080. And I think one of the most interesting features, honestly, is the new Apple reference image feature, which will digitally

1:14:52sign every pixel of a photo. You can turn this feature on and off as you capture images and it will be, there's an API where other apps will be able to tell that a photo was taken with an iPhone camera. They said this is geared towards journalists, things like that, but they're trying to make it so you can tell whether a photo is AI or not. And it'll even mark when edits are made after the photo was taken. And so you were able to see the reference image, see the editing chain and be able to sign those photos and is supposedly upcoming support for synth ID, uh, which is a, you know, more open

1:15:26standard used widely, but yeah, that's nice. I definitely have some questions because one of the things that they said about this kind of made it sound like it is, it is in some ways limited to your photos app. Um, there was something about, um, well, they said third-party apps will to enable viewing of these reference images. There's an API that they have to build into. Maybe that's what it was, but it's like this, something about the reference photo lives with the editable photo, editable photo. And then it talked about your photos library. I just want to dig into it more

1:15:58because that is the problem with any of these standards is where will you be able to tell? Like if somebody just, I mean, here's the thing, you screenshot someone else's photo that they posted somewhere and suddenly you've lost all of this information. Like this is such a hard problem to solve. And I think this is a good way to do it because essentially they are saying this is the original. You can then sort of, it's like version control, right? Like you can see the edit history, not, not necessarily exactly like that, but I don't know. I'm, I'm interested to dig into

1:16:29this. I'm curious too. I'm glad Apple's doing something. I think I talked about on this show that of all the trying to identify AI generated content, having it done at capture by the camera, like the iPhone is the way to do it. And so nice to see them pushing into this. I think a couple of things, the iPhone 18 pro now charges faster. You can get to 50% charge in 20 minutes with a 60 watt adapter. So previously the 17 pro had 45 watt charging and now it goes up to 60 watt. So that's fun. You can get faster charging and they redid the clear case. So now there's like a circle

1:17:04in the back rather than like the rounded rec. So there's, there's that, there's that AirPods five are a thing. They're out there. And so you can get wireless charging and volume adjustment on the stem. If you get the more expensive model, my biggest thing is why this is like the Apple TV problem where they have two models that are $20 apart. This is, I, this is a weird section. In fact, I had to go back and rewatch it. Cause it's like, well, they made a big point of saying that the they're better and, but they're for the price of the cheaper, but also there's a more expensive

1:17:34version. I was like, hold on. Yeah. What, what are you talking about? Explain it to me, Steven. There's $129 model, which has 50% better active noise canceling a whole new major acoustic architecture. So they sound better. That's $129. And then if you want wireless charging and volume adjustment on the stem, you have to pay $20 more and get it for $149. And honestly, that just feels like crazy making to me. I don't know why, but also you get more hours of active noise control. Like it has more battery. Wait, what are we price gating? This is weird.

1:18:08And a $20 price gate is, is just very strange. Like I understood with the AirPods four, there was an ANC version and a non ANC version. That makes sense. Like that's a very different feature. And I think the difference was more than $20. I thought it was maybe 30 or $40. I can't remember, but gate, like separating these two models with a $20 price difference. I don't understand. Maybe it's so Amazon or Best Buy can do a sale and you can say AirPods five starting at

1:18:39$99 and only that one 29 version will be able to get down to $99 during the holiday season. But that just feels meh to me. You think that 80 Jesse called up John Ternus and is like, we want to run a sale. What can you do for us? I don't think Apple makes its product decisions based on that, but this is weird. I think that the active noise cancellation version before it was like 179 on the AirPods four and 129 for the non. But again, I find you're right. That makes sense. But this

1:19:10difference in features that is so confusing to me. I don't. It's like you get swiping on the stem, a wireless charging on the case and more battery. I don't know. It doesn't make any sense. So that's AirPods five. That was the event. I cannot wait to see Tyler Stallman and Austin man and some great photographers see what the iPhone 18 pro is capable of with that variable aperture yourself as a photographer. I would love to see what you were going to do with that. If you're going to test it, you always have very nice photos in your, your review pieces.

1:19:45So let's do a very, very quick lightning round. Uh, this came out before the event. This was Mark German journalist, excuse me, Mark German over at Bloomberg saying that John Ternus and services chief Eddie Q that they are going to make efforts to raise the margins on the app store and squeeze more money out of it. I'll just say, don't do it. Don't do that. Leave it alone. Anyway, that's all I wanted to get that out. I mean, it's unfortunate because everyone was like, Oh, maybe the app store will get better because this product guy would just not care. But no, he, he knows where the money's

1:20:17coming from. Yeah. So, uh, so we'll see. So we'll see. Uh, this, I thought was interesting. Open AI, it claimed to solve one of math's $1 million millennium prize problems. If you're not familiar, I think there's like seven math problems. There were six left until this happened. There were six left. Okay. It was one of the Navier Stokes equations. And if you solve one of these math problems, if there's a million dollar prize, first of all, and then infinite bragging rights, your name goes down in history as solving one of these six unsolvable math

1:20:49problems and supposedly open AI with an unreleased model, not even Astra, which is out there. Now that was news also late last week. You can use Astra chat GPT. And people are saying that model is amazing. Computer control is super fast. Fine. This is an unreleased model that supposedly solved this problem, but a mathematician, Tristan Buckmaster, he's a math professor at NYU said that he and another mathematician had been making major progress toward a solution of this millennium problem. And maybe open AI drew on some of their work, like AI has done for all

1:21:24work in all of history, all creative work. And maybe it did. Maybe it didn't solve it on its own. But open AI has said it's not going to claim the prize. Yeah, actually, let me can I expand it? I know we don't have a lot of time. But I this one is one I spent a lot of time talking to my son. Like as a I know, as a parent, we like to brag about our children. But I have a son who is like an actual math genius. He's a freshman. He tested out he's taking AP calculus this year, because there was no other math classes for him to take as a freshman. And so he we talked about this, because he thinks it will first of all, he thinks open AI is just

1:21:56greedy, which is a pretty decent. But so the two scientists were, I only mentioned this, because there's so much more than the math to this, which is the two scientists were actually working on a different problem. Okay, okay. And they had come up with a novel way, a novel angle in this. And it was a thing that most mathematicians would have overlooked. And they were using codecs to do this. And one of the two gentlemen works for anthropic. Okay. And once the rumors got out that this that they were close to solving theirs, which is a Euler's, I don't know all the details, some of our

1:22:30listeners, whatever, my son could have explained, he did explain it to me several times. And it's still whatever. I'm sorry. I'm a writer. Okay, I write words. Anyway, open AI essentially took what they were doing, fed it into a prompt, and solve this other problem, supposedly. And so there's like two main issues. One is, did they have access to the work they were doing in codecs? And open AI's response has not been satisfactory on this, because what they've said is we don't use individual, whatever,

1:23:02personal data or whatever. That's not an answer to this. Did what they've put into codecs do reinforcement learning that causes to be signed. And then the second thing is they did, they reached out to the scientists and to the one scientist, the one that doesn't work at anthropic. I apologize. I don't know their names right now. And essentially said, we will give you credit for this. We won't take the credit. You just have to write a paper on our thing and not use the guy who works in anthropic. This is just so crappy. This whole thing is so crappy. And in many, I think it's Terrence

1:23:37Tai, who is a pretty well-known mathematician. One of the things he talked about is solving math problems. The benefit of it is not knowing the answer to the problem. It's all of the things we learn along the way of solving the problems. And if you just feed this stuff into AI, great, you accomplish this. You solved the problem. But what you didn't learn anything. The AI didn't learn anything. No humans gained any of the research and the knowledge that comes with, with working out these hard problems. You just basically cut to the end. It's like, come on, man. Yeah. Yeah.

1:24:10Sorry. I know that most of our listeners don't care. No, no, it's good. I'm just going to give this section to my son. He'll be proud of me for being able to say all those words. That's good. That was good. Okay. Last couple of quick things. Metamuse launched, which normally I would not care about a meta AI agent app or AI app or whatever. But I saw Parker Ortolani talk about this on X. And so because this is a meta property, and if you use Facebook and Instagram, it has all of your information there. I was curious because I saw Parker's use case. If you download this Metamuse

1:24:43AI app, you can ask it things like, what were some of the restaurants I saw on Instagram recently? And it can tell you. And that's kind of useful. And so I hated that this was actually have a useful feature that kind of like the history of, you know, because as you're viewing history, it has your Instagram stuff, which also means it has your viewing history. Keep that in mind. But yeah, that Metamuse AI app is out there and might also have some useful features. Yeah. And not only is this an app, but each like what you end up with a virtual machine

1:25:17right in the cloud. Yes. And it's a virtual machine with eight gigs of memory and eight gigs of hard drive space. Like Ben Thompson asked, it's like, so tell me about your configuration. It's like, I'm a virtual machine. I have access to these LLMs in the cloud, but also you have your own personal little virtual machine just living out there in the cloud with this little agent running on it. Wild. The world's smallest. It's Mac mini. It's like a Raspberry Pi with with a music. Yeah. All right. I'm going to jump to personal tech because I have to cover this last

1:25:47last story. And it's personal because this is the TV I just bought for my birthday, an LG OLED.

LG TV privacy and data concerns

1:25:55So I'll put, I'll link the Verge article. LG TVs are caught spying even when offline or on standby, but this is basically pointing to this YouTube report from Gamers Nexus. And I will link this YouTube video down in the description. Steve Burke, the editor in chief explains, goes to great lengths to talk about how so many LG TVs are spying on you. If you thought the Apple watch was bad, these TVs are recording audio, sending it to LG's ad tech. And even when it is offline,

1:26:34like taken off the internet, they ran this experiment where they have it, they hacked it in such a way where they could hear what the TV was hearing. And it is recording this audio, even if it's offline. And then when it goes back online, it will upload it to LG's ad tech and it will just report on what you talked about, serve it for ads, all this kind of stuff. And also it knows like what's being watched on the TV. Gross, gross, gross. So gross. And I don't know what to do about this. I'm going

1:27:05to disconnect it from wifi. I don't even know if that matters. Steven, you should, this is my most liked post I've ever shared on social media. It was when I posted a picture of our 18 year old Samsung plasma TV in our bedroom. It's only 10 ADP, but you know what I love about it? It is never asked to install a software update and it has no connection to the internet. And the very first thing anyone should do when you install a new TV is turn off all access to the internet. Do not connect it to your wifi. Do not plug in an ethernet cable, nothing now. Cause in that case, it might

1:27:36still be recording, which is super gross, but whatever. Eventually it'll get bored because it can't do it with those recordings. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go on my unified network settings and block this from internet access. But they played clips in this YouTube video from gamers nexus. They played clips from people from LG saying that we own the living room or like we own the screen. Like just like gross terminology saying that in their agreements that they have the right to do this, but they can collect your IP address, geographic location, every wifi network in the vicinity, other devices on the network, even if it's not connected to the

1:28:08TV in any way, like phones. So nasty. I like, this is really frustrating. Well, one, I wish this came out seven months ago and may have bought a different TV, but yeah, not good on LG. Bad, bad, bad. This YouTube video is like two hours and 15 minutes long, but the entire investigation is fascinating. They even go into like the code of the TV and you can see sometimes like transcripts of the audio clips that were recorded and also the topics that were mentioned and recorded by the TVs and ACR, which is automatic content recognition is the functionality where it will. Yeah. Go into

1:28:44your information and just deliver it to assets. Just so not good. This is bad. We need a Brian Tong used to have like a bad Apple segment on CNET. Like this is a bad Apple. I don't know. We need something else. This is a bad polar bear. This is a grizzly bear. Let me just reiterate anyone who has a television right now, go turn the wifi off. Do not connect it to connect it to an Apple TV. That's connected to the internet. That'll be fine. Don't. And if you buy a new television, the first thing you should do is turn off the wifi connection. Cause obviously if you don't connect

1:29:14it to your home network, that's great, but just turn off that functionality entirely. There is literally no reason for your television to be connected to the internet. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, if you have an LG TV, do that, do what Jason said. I'm disappointed, Stephen, that your TV was connected to the internet, to be honest. I don't know if I did. Honestly, I have to go back and look. I thought I never connected it because I use it as a dumb TV. Like I have my receiver and everything. So maybe it's not connected, but I'm going to go and see. Well, I'll let you know. We'll follow up. But anyway, that was huge Apple week. I'm going to get some devices

1:29:48in hand, at least by launch day, as far as the Apple watches and the 18 pro. So keep your eye out for that. iPhone duo is not till October. Forgot to mention that that's not coming till October. You can pre-order the iPhone duo October 16, and then it's available October 23rd. So we're over a month away from that pre-orders for Apple watch and AirPods are open. Now that opened right after the event pre-orders for iPhone 18 pro is the Saturday. You're going to pre-order an iPhone, Jason. I forgot to ask you. Um, we'll see. I'm going to probably, I'm interested in the pro. I don't, I'd like to play with a duo, but I don't, gosh, I don't

1:30:21know. I'd have to get my hands on it to see whether or not it's a phone I would want to use all the time. Yeah. We'll have to see. I'm going to be getting one definitely to review and then see, maybe it's my default phone this year. We'll see. Anyway, we're going to go record a bonus episode. I have to tell Jason about something I saw. I just, I have to get it off my chest. And so if you want to hear a bonus episode, get an ad-free version, the unedited full audio from our show, you can support by clicking the link down in the episode description. You can support us for $2.50 a month or $25 a year. We appreciate all of the members who support the show. Leave us a five-star rating review in Apple Podcasts.

1:30:53And thanks so much for listening and watching. We'll catch you next time.