iPhone Duo Reviews, Touchscreen MacBook Pro, How Walmart May Beat Amazon

Welcome and award wins

0:00If you don't step aside, I'm going to fold you in half. Welcome to Primary Technology, the award-winning show about the tech news that matters. This week, the iPhone Duo reviews are out. We're going to comment on a bunch of them. We might even get it in hand during the show. We'll see. Also, Apple now has another event, Pro Intel, next week. Walmart wants AI agents shopping for you. Claude announced their agent-like news, but it's Claude Duet, and there's a ton more. This episode is brought to you by Copilot Money and Claude, and you, the members who support us directly. I'm one of your hosts, Stephen Robles, joined by my award-winning co-host, Jason Aiton.

0:31How's it going, Jason? That's literally true, actually. If it wasn't for me, we would not have won one of those awards. It lit up 100%. Thank you to everyone who voted. I turned off my camera instead of sharing my screen. Thank you to everyone who voted in the Signal Awards. We have won not one, but two Signal Awards best co-host team. We have won silver, and in the technology category, we have won bronze, and we were in great company in both of those shows. Thank you all. And now you're going to hear me say award-winning podcast every time.

1:02No, no, you won't. But I did put the badge that we are a Signal award-winning podcast on our website. And I'm going to be making a t-shirt so I can just wear it around saying I won an award. Mostly, I'm just going to wear it around my mother so she knows that I won an award. This podcasting thing. We actually do a thing, okay? This is an award. So thank you to everyone who voted and taking the time to do that. And now, forevermore, we can just say we're an award-winning podcast. So that's super fun. And also, speaking of podcasts, I did want to plug, I was on the Verge cast earlier this week talking about all the vibe-coding things, and David invited me on.

1:34So we'll link that down in the show notes. It's in Apple Podcasts on YouTube. And, yeah, I even got to troll him with my Shortcuts pillow because I had my Shortcuts pillow and I wore my Shortcuts shirt. And, yeah, it was a super fun episode. So just check that out. All right, and we have one five-star review shout-out, Davinger from Barbados. And this was a funny connection because when we were talking about Apple TV and how they're set up in conference rooms and what happens if the owner is in Barbados, well, he's a listener in Barbados. Awesome. That's so fun. So Davinger from Barbados, thank you for that five-star review.

2:05And leave us one in Apple Podcasts. You can get a shout-out on an award-winning podcast if you leave us a five-star rating and review. But also don't try casting stuff in Barbados to wherever we are. Like, it's not going to work. Don't do that. Are you going to ask me about the movie quote? Oh, yes, the movie quote. You need to make yourself a note further down to check. I know. I need to put it under the five-star rating. Yeah, I don't know for sure. It feels like it's a – there's a quote from Thor that's very close to that. Yeah, it's not in the Marvel Universe. But I – okay, then I have no idea because I was like, well, did he – did he even misquote something?

2:36Because it's like something along the lines of – it doesn't say fold you in half. It's like you're going to need medical attention or something like that. Oh, no, no, no. Okay, I don't know. It is Fast and the Furious 6. Yeah, I did not see that movie. If you don't have to decide, I'm going to fold you in half. But, you know, fold. Duo. I felt like it was perfect. That's great. Yeah. But I still have never seen that movie. Have you seen any of the Fast and the Furious movies? I've seen at least – I've seen up to Tokyo Drift, which is three – three. That's the third one, yeah. I think there's 13 now. And the cars fly, I'm pretty sure, in the latest ones.

iPhone Duo reviews

3:04Anyway, we're going to get to the iPhone Duo reviews because all the videos are out there. And we have thoughts from the people who have had thoughts. But next week, it is nonstop, Jason. Apple has yet another experience, quote unquote. And we didn't talk about the distinction between these two. But I think they have said it is at 1 p.m. Eastern in Los Angeles on October 28th, which is next Wednesday. Being an experience, I think it means there's no live stream. It's going to be press release drops. And then a bunch of creators have been invited to take hands-on footage and share things on Reels or whatever.

3:38And Apple's probably going to publish some videos on their YouTube channel about what is announced. But the tagline is Pro and Tell. Seems like we're going to be getting this – all the rumors say the new touchscreen MacBook Pro, which I still have trouble wrapping my head around. But I had trouble wrapping my head around a folding iPhone, and now we have that now. So, I don't know. What do you think? Touchscreen MacBook Pro? You feel pretty sure about it? I mean – I mean – Yeah. I'm confused by that potential product. I don't understand because it's going to have an M6 in it, apparently, which is a dead end.

4:11I don't – there's a lot of things I don't understand about the possibility of this product. And I don't think I'm just being ornery. I'm just confused. Like, I know a lot of people are like, it'd be cool to have a touchscreen at MacBook Pro, and it's going to have an M6, which is a higher number than an M5. And I'm like – but that's not exactly how it all works. Yeah. So, I'm just confused. Some of the rumors say it'll be M5 Pro and M5 Max. Okay, that would be fine. But we do already have those MacBook Pros. Here's my prediction. Okay, good. I think it's going to be an M6 MacBook Pro baseline.

4:44It'll be like the new baseline MacBook Pro, but the M5 Pro and Max higher tiers just stay the same. And this new touchscreen is at a price premium because of the form factor and display, not because of the chip. And it won't be like – But will the new touchscreen be coming to the M5 Pro and Max versions? I don't think so. That doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense. And this was probably totally inaccurate. But I think that's just – No, no, no. You're probably totally right, but it does not make any sense. It's absolutely a thing that they would do, but what I don't – because they did that with – they've done that before.

5:16I don't remember which generations. Yeah. The base one. They update the base one. I don't know if it was the M – I forget what it was. But yeah. Maybe they'll do an M6 MacBook Air. Oh, now that would be a problem because I might have done an M4 MacBook Air. But it would be a problem, but it would probably not have a touchscreen. So there's just lots of confusion happening here. It is confusion. So the iMac might be updated to the M6 next week. And all the rumors say iPad mini. Again, like it's pro Intel. So I think we're going to see iPad Pro with M6 because the iPad Pro, for the last couple generations, has been the first device to get the new chip.

5:51It got the M5 first, I believe. It got the M4 first. And so I think – and this is the first year it didn't. You know, the M6 Mac mini was actually the first device to get the two nanometer process. So I think we're going to get the iPad Pro with M6. And maybe somehow the iPad mini becomes a part of the iPad Pro lineup because it's always been priced and feature set-wise been more on par with that than the Air. Like the iPad mini has always been more expensive than the Air. And so I wonder if they might somehow merge that lineup, give it all the M6, maybe not the iPad mini, but hopefully.

6:24And then we do that. But we'll see. We'll see. I actually resurrected my iPad mini. Not resurrected, but I actually found it because I had given it to my son I didn't realize. So I re-commandeered it back. And so I'm watching my front door camera from it as we record this episode. Yeah, I am in the market for an iPad mini because I've got not the S17 version, whatever the other one is. Yeah. And it's getting slow. And the thing that's wonderful about an iPad is you can leave it in your bag for four days and when you take it out, you should still be able to use it. But that one, that's not true.

6:54Right. It'll be dead after 32 hours. And I will say after using an M5 iPad Pro for the past year, going to the iPad mini is I've just, I didn't even restore from backup. I was just using it as like a brand new setup. You could feel the slowness and also the lack of promotion. Like it's not. I don't care about the promotion thing, but it should not take 14 minutes to load Apple News. That, so we'll see. We'll have it next week's episode. We'll cover all the things that will be announced. But I've also seen some creators invited to this for the first time. And so it's an interesting crowd being invited to this Pro Intel event.

7:28Like Federico Fatici is being invited, which, you know, he's doing all the local AI stuff and Mac Studios with all the agents on it. So that's curious. I also saw like Christopher Lawley's invited, who he's a big iPad guy. So maybe, you know, iPad Max and seems to make sense. But anyway, iPhone Duo reviews dropped yesterday. The embargo lifted, I think at like 8 a.m. And I saw a bunch of review videos watched out. I've seen every iPhone Duo review video that was available, I think.

7:58I actually got to the end of YouTube and YouTube said, you're done. You watched them all. That's it. That's not true. But I did watch a lot of these reviews. I want to call out a few specifically, and we'll be commenting to them throughout. Joanna Stern did the work, as she is wont to do, and built a custom device with the help of this gentleman to fold the iPhone Duo nonstop during her week of testing. And she folded the iPhone Duo over 32,000 times using this machine.

8:32She calls it Hingy. And she was testing the hinge to see how durable is this hinge, which would have been my first concern with a foldable phone. It's like, how is this hinge going to fare? And I won't spoil the specifics. You should watch her review video. It's a great review overall. But for the hinge test especially, very funny. And, yeah, I'm not as worried about the hinge. We'll just say that. Yeah. I mean, this is kind of like the people worried that you could bend the iPhone Air, and then we found out you absolutely cannot, no matter what.

9:03Right. Yeah. Jobs, like, told people to try. Do whatever you want. Every time I hand it to somebody, and I'm like, no, try it. I am a little nervous, but I'm like, I know that they can't, but people are super anxious. They're like, really? You think I could bend? You tell me I can't bend this? And people have this glistening look in their eye like, I want to try, but also I don't want to destroy the phone. And it's really hard to convince someone it's going to be totally okay. I think this is the same kind of thing. Like, they, I don't think, this is the least surprising part. I'm glad Joanna did this. She is fantastic at coming up with a thing that feels both mundane and incredibly clever at the same time, right?

9:40It's just checking the folding, because no one else did that. Everyone else just kind of like, ooh, to nod over different things. Yeah. But this is the least surprising part that Apple would have made sure that the hinge would not be a problem. Right. And John Ternus, he's a hardware guy. Johnny Surugi's down there. He talked about the hinge for like 20 minutes. Also, as you were saying, coming up with that kind of unique way of reviewing a device, I'm going to make a call here. If anyone is in Florida and is or knows a carpenter, a woodworker per se, I have an idea for a video that I want to do soon.

10:17And just reach out. Just email me at the email in the show notes. Because I'm looking for someone, ideally in Florida, so we could like work on something together. But it kind of has to be fast. So they have to be kind of available. So I'm just going to throw that out there. Just throwing that out there. You have to be local and available. And yeah, do stuff with wood. Do stuff with wood. Well. Do stuff with wood. I found someone on Facebook Marketplace who makes alligator wood carvings. And they're actually amazing. But I don't know how they would fare with a technology product made out of wood.

10:48You know what I mean? I don't know if that's the same skill set. I'm not in that. But anyway. I also wanted to call out, why do I keep turning off my camera when I mean to share my screen? I think Riverside moved these buttons. Because I did this during Mac Power Users too. And I was like, oh no, I did it with Gentooey. Our episode, which you should check out that episode if you didn't see that. Gentooey came on. We talked about the home view. But anyway. MKBHD's review, obviously. Not that he needs a shout out. But the intro clips that he has of the iPhone Duo, I saw on Instagram someone from his team shared that they built a custom rig for one shot in this opening montage of his iPhone

11:24Duo review, which is when you see each iPhone Duo unfold at different angles. And you kind of see it. This is the shot right here. If you're watching, you kind of see it like layer out. They built an entire machine to bend the iPhone Duo at those angles precisely so they could film it. Wild. Wild. Team effort. If I hear app compatibility one more time, though, I'm going to lose it. I'm going to lose it. And I don't. That's the thing for you. I feel like we don't even need to talk about that. Because this feels very, like in every review, in every podcast that I've heard talking about

11:59the iPhone Duo, one of the main like knocks on the device is that quote unquote apps have not been updated to take advantage of the screen. And so you have black bars on one side. You might have letterboxing. The app might be a really small thing in the middle. A, I think it's problematic to criticize that by default when the phone is not out yet to the public. And a lot of apps were actually being updated as reviewers were making the review. Like both Nili Patel and Joanna Stern said they had to read or Joanna had to refilm the

12:32section about that because apps that she talked about got updated during the week of her review. Yeah, like Instagram. Yeah, like Instagram and threads. And so I don't think that. No, I do think this is very much like the original iPad launch when everybody was freaking out that you have to hit the 1x, 2x button to zoom in an iPhone app. And it looked terrible. Yes, it did look terrible. And that was a poor experience. But also a year later or even less, like that was a non-issue. So I feel like, yes, if you go with the iPhone Duo, you're going to see some black bars.

13:03But I don't think it is a major issue. How do you feel? Well, okay. There are three states. There are apps that have not yet been updated for iOS 27. And on the Duo, they're going to suck. Those are the little mini apps in the middle of the screen. Those are going to be super bad. So if you have apps that if you use an app regularly that has not been updated for iOS 27, you probably do not want to get a Duo yet. Because the experience of using it is just not going to be good. Then there are apps that have been updated for iOS 27.

13:34And those apps will appear better, but they will have nothing in the, what do they call the sidebar? Like where the control panel stuff is. That'll just be black. Okay. But the app will essentially fill the outside screen and will be better on the inside screen. Okay. And then there are apps that have been updated for the iPhone Duo. Now, here's the thing. And they talked about this in the Vergecast, which is that most of the current apps that have been updated for the Duo feel like. AI slap updates.

14:06That's like the phrase that they use because they don't feel very thought out and considered. They just sort of fill the screen. Right. And the truth is that is probably how most people are updating their apps. They're just saying, Claude, make this work on a Duo. Because can you imagine, Stephen, the amount like this is not updating for another size. This is updating for like seven different possible app states and scenarios, which is like for my app, Contextly, which is not an inherently complicated app. It took me a very long time just to wrestle with what should this do on an iPad, which can rotate.

14:39Right. Right. Like, which is an insane level of complexity for an app that has multiple pains and stuff. But I haven't even bothered to update it yet because it is updated for 27. So it won't be the worst case scenario. I do want to update it for this. But also, how many people that are using this are going to be using my app? And so there's a lot of like thought process there because it isn't just take Claude, make this look better. It's, well, what you did here, is that the way that someone would expect this to perform in this particular situation?

15:10It is a ton of work and I think it is a fair criticism of the device that it is essentially, Apple is just expecting developers to put in a very large amount of work for an iPhone that introduces a lot of complexity for what? Right. And to your point, like as I was trying to update CanDo for the Duo, the bend state is one of the hardest things. Because you can open the iPhone Duo completely and you have basically an iPad mini.

15:44You have a seven inch screen and if your app looks good on an iPad, it'll probably look good on that. But as soon as you start closing that hinge, which a lot of people will probably do just for the heck of it, because it's fun that you can have a phone that looks like a book. You know what I mean? Now you have a gutter in the middle of the Duo and you have to decide, do I put content there? Do I not? If I don't, does it look like there's just a bunch of blank space? And so you have to make a lot of decisions about that. And I think Meta, ironically, has been the fastest at updating their app.

16:15So Instagram threads, they look okay. TikTok is one that is, who knows when it will be updated. But like as you can see, if you look at it on the outside screen, it is a dark rail on the right side, just a black rail. And then the whole app is off to the left. And this is how I think a lot of apps are going to be, especially on that outer display. Like your bank app is going to look weird on the iPhone Duo probably for the next year. Like my credit union is not going to update their app anytime soon. So like it took them like years just to put like touch ID, face ID.

16:49And even after that, it said like add touch ID, but it was like years of face ID already. But it was biometric. So it just kind of worked. Anyway. So yeah, there's going to be weird experiences.

Multitasking and app states

17:01And in the weird experiences category, there's also things that Apple, I think, has to figure out. And Marquez, in his review, he does the dual doom scrolling example where he has TikTok on one side and Instagram reels on the other with the iPhone Duo open. And this is a problem that you might have had before. Like on your iPhone right now, if you put a video and picture in picture and it's playing in the background like a YouTube video, and then you go to a social media app like Instagram, what happens?

17:38Typically, the video will pause and the reels will take over because that's what you're actively using. And then if you press play on the picture in picture, the real audio will stop. But the iPhone Duo now introduces something a little new. You know, you could kind of do this with the iPad. But with the iPad, even in windowing mode, there's still an active app on the front. There's always a window that's the active one. And with the iPhone Duo, if you have it open and you have two apps side by side, the iPhone Duo sees them both as the front most app.

18:09And so as Marques like scrolled, it would like play the audio from TikTok sometimes. And then sometimes it would play it from Instagram. And it was not consistent kind of to what it was doing. And so that's something like no one should be scrolling these two apps side by side. Like this is just a funny reel or something funny to put in a video. But that's a behavior that, you know, Apple has to decide what is the iPhone going to do? What what is the iPhone Duo going to do with that situation? Yeah, and I think it is a fair criticism that they didn't figure that out in advance.

18:44Sure. Right. Because this shouldn't have caught them by surprise. And there's no way to consider every possible scenario that people are going to come up with. But this actually doesn't seem that weird. Like it didn't take Marques very long to figure out this is weird. What if we did this? And that's exactly what people are going to going to be doing. And so I don't know. So I think I do think app compatibility will improve. Yes. I do think that there are many apps that people use that won't be updated for iOS 27 because they aren't really being updated, period.

19:16And those are just going to suck on this device. And so you're going to have to look for a different device. And then there are a lot of developers who are going to have to think about it and really can't start thinking about it until they have one in hand. Right. And so it's it could be a little bit of time before that's the case. It could be a little bit of time. So I want to we'll get to like some of the positive aspects in a minute. But, you know, because I do think Chance Miller at nine to five Mac, I'll link his review down in the show notes. He was very positive about it. Like and I think a lot of other reviews had a similar refrain of this is fun.

19:51Like this is a fun device. It is different. Like this is the first time we've had a very different kind of iPhone in a long time. Many people said the iPhone 10 was kind of the last time this happened. But even then, the iPhone 10 was more similar to the iPhone 7 than the iPhone Duo is to like the 18 or 17 today. Like this is just a whole new paradigm for using an iPhone.

Foldables and the Apple ecosystem

20:15Yes, foldables have been out there forever. But if you're someone like me who have never owned a foldable. You've never owned a foldable? No, no. I've used them. Like I had I have a friend with a Galaxy Z Fold 7 and I played around with that. But I've never owned a foldable. Okay. Per se. And there was a point in the last couple of months where I was like, maybe I need to get a Galaxy Z Fold 8 just to see, like just for comparison. And there were like the Verge compared to the Z Fold 8.

20:45But then I was like, but if I am like most Apple users or people in the Apple ecosystem, they likely have never used a foldable phone. And so I thought maybe the perspective will be interesting to say I've never used a foldable. And now here's what I think about my first one. So I don't know. I was on the fence of that. But do you feel like because you have like a Pixel Fold. I know you've tried foldable phones. Do you feel like having used the Android foldables informs you for the iPhone Duo? Or like how do you feel that?

21:17So when I've used, I've used at least two generations of Samsung Folds, maybe three. I can't remember. Including like a Fold 3. I've also used to flip one of the versions. I can't remember right now which ones. And then I also use Pixel Fold, like the two and three maybe or several generations. Whatever the most recent one is included. Yeah. And I like foldable phones because I like my phone and I also like the iPad mini a lot. And it's not exactly the same because like the Pixel Fold you open up is essentially like four by three or square or whatever.

21:51It's like not. Anyway, I think it's great. The biggest drawback is I don't like Android on a device. And mostly that's not as much a criticism of Android as it is. This device is never going to feel like mine because all my stuff is already in these apps. And it's not just Apple's ecosystem. It's like Flighty and, you know, Ulysses and Fantastical and all these apps that are just like iOS basically only. And so that's really the reason that I'm like, I can't use the Pixel Fold. But I really liked it and I would like to.

22:21Apple actually like took it like further than I feel like just taking a Pixel Fold or whatever and making it run iOS. And in some ways, that's what you expect from Apple because it does not feel like most foldable phones from Android really took Android and considered what should this do on a foldable device. And I think Apple has done that. The problem is there's such a large app ecosystem that they need everyone to catch up. And just like the Vision Pro, the question is like, is it going to be worth the effort to catch up? Right. Which unlike the Vision Pro, I do think iPhone duos are going to be everywhere.

22:54I saw, I think it was an article this morning that there's just huge lines already in at Apple stores waiting for the iPhone duo because there's some scalpers, Stephen. There are some scalpers, but I think there's actually some legitimate people that want to buy an iPhone duo tomorrow on launch date. And I do think it's good for Apple because there have not been lines for a new iPhone, I don't think, for a very long time. So that's good. They've generated a lot of excitement. I just, I will be interested in knowing, because I wrote an article, right?

23:27They said that the demand has been nothing short of extraordinary. And my question is, compared to what? Right? Compared to what you were expecting? So did you just calculate wrong? Compared to what you could produce? Right? Did you, and there were reports that Apple had to cut its production essentially by like 60% because it was just like, they're just really hard to make because it was a very high standard. So it's like, were you expecting to sell a million of these and you sold 10 million? Were you expecting to sell a million of these? You sold 2 million, but you could only make 600,000 because of the, you know what I mean?

23:57We just don't know. And so I'm not trying to like poo poo this at all, but I am saying we should be careful. And at the same time, the fact that if people are lining up, that's just a very tangible, visible sign that people are genuinely excited about this. I think comparing it to the Vision Pro, I've now compared two devices in a row to the Vision Pro is not fair, especially in this. I think the home view is much more likely to be a Vision Pro than the Duo. I don't know that the Duo will be a raging success, but I think all reports so far suggest it's sold at least 10 times more than the Vision Pro.

24:32Yeah, and I've heard from some people in the know that the amount of iPhone Duos being produced a day is much lower than any other iPhone because of the challenge of making the device and the, you know, the hinge and everything. This is a Apple Store, Apple Galaxy Macau, and this is 48 hours ahead of launch, and you can kind of see the line. This is the Yahoo article down in the show notes. I don't know the last, this might be the first time I linked to a Yahoo article.

25:02But yeah, people lining up, what do people do for 48 hours waiting for this? I don't know.

25:08But I, one thing I see, I saw across the reviews though, Apple Pencil support is coming in 27.2 for the iPhone Duo. And there's been people like sharing some reels. Max Weinbach on X showed like, here's the Apple Pencil writing on iPhone Duo. You just have to update to 27.2. And all the reviewers didn't include Apple Pencil talk in their iPhone Duo review. And so I am curious for a certain subset of users, will the Apple Pencil support be the differentiator that makes it worth dealing with some of the stuff?

25:45And I have a couple apps that I want to try day one, which I think is today. I have my eye on the driveway. Anyway, and that will be the thing. And I also, along with the Apple Pencil support, I think how people feel about and use iPad is going to play into how they feel about iPhone Duo. Because if you have never liked iPad, but love the iPhone and then Macs and all of that, but if you just don't like iPad or have never found good use cases for iPad, if you're not affectionate for the iPad mini, I don't know if the iPhone Duo is going to speak to that user as much as someone who is in the iPad world and loves using iPads.

26:27And like, I did a whole video a couple months ago, like how I use iPad every day. And I really do use my iPad Pro every day, if not just for editing daily podcasts, but also for building shortcuts. And when I work, whenever I'm not here in the studio, I like using my iPad every day. And if you are not in that camp, I wonder if the iPhone Duo is just less attractive because you don't think about, oh, what if I had an iPad in my pocket? You know, see, I disagree a little because, um, this is why we're an award-winning podcast.

27:00Yeah, I was thinking that exact thing. That's what distracted me from what I was going to say. But for my real, the real reason though is I think the paradigm of the iPhone Duo is so different from the iPad that if you are buying this because you want to have an iPhone that turns into an iPad, you're actually going to be really frustrated. It doesn't have any of the multitasking. It doesn't have the slide over, which I think it should have slide over for crying out loud. That would be amazing on this phone. I mean, it does have split view. You can put two apps side by side. It is not split view though. It is not the same thing as what we're used to on the iPad.

27:30How is it different than just putting two apps side by side? I'm just saying the functionality on the iPad is you have a lot of options for how you want to do that. Do you want to have that be like 60, 40? Do you want to have it to, yeah, there's just a lot of different options and you can tap a button at the top and you can swap things out where, so all of the things you were used to, all the gestures you were used to, you have to learn a whole new set of gestures to do this. They didn't just lift. I think it probably was the right choice because I think Apple is precious about this is an iPhone. This is not an iPad.

28:00And I also think that if you think about it, if you had to err on one side, people will always use this device as an iPhone and then they will open it up and use it as a larger phone screen. It has to always function as an iPhone, right? So if you had to err in one direction, you had to go that direction. It does not have to always function as an iPad. That's the extended version of it. And so there are certain constraints that if you made it like an iPad that would sort of break the experience of using an iPhone.

28:34So that's probably the right option. Um, they would have to like merge the two things back together and come up, but either way, this is going to have a separate set of paradigms because everything on it, like when I put an app on the, you know, well, the weird thing is like, if you make an iPhone app and you want to make it on the iPad, it's the same app. Actually, it's just has different views, right? Like you just, it just identifies which operating system it's running on and adjust things accordingly. So it wouldn't be that difficult for it to do both of those things, but it doesn't surprise me that they did it the way they did it. I just think you were saying, if you love the iPad, then this might make more sense.

29:07I actually think if you have zero experience with the iPad, I mean, if you hate the iPad, I don't know that you want to do all like that's an expensive way to find out, but if you, but if you just never, most people have never used an iPad, believe it or not. Well, and most people, even like tech nerds just don't have uses for the iPad and I'm not saying they should, I just don't think they, aside from reading articles and watching videos, if you don't see the iPad in any sense of productivity or usefulness, then the open iPhone duo just becomes a TikTok player, which is how so many of the video reviews showed it.

29:43They were like, yeah, you can scroll reels big and you can watch Christopher Nolan's Odyssey as Nolan intended because it's the right aspect ratio. And it's like, yeah, it will be good at that, but that's not how I use an iPad. I mean, I do watch videos on iPad, but I use an iPad to edit podcasts and to build shortcuts. And so those are the use cases I did not see reviewers trying because I just don't think they've ever used an iPad that way or don't care to. And this is an interesting juxtaposition because Gruber had his review published last night.

30:17He has strong words for the iPhone. Yeah, he says the outside screen is the worst iPhone they've ever made. He said the outer device is by far the worst iPhone Apple has ever made. It's a miserable, fat little thing. But the inner device is a splendid, joyful, beautiful tablet with a UI that out iPads the iPad. Now, I feel like the first part of that, while harsh, might be accurate. Although, I don't know.

30:49The iPhone 3G was pretty rough. That's why the 3GS and the speed improvements was like a big deal. Worst iPhone Apple has ever made, like that's tough. But to say that this will be the best iPad, that this out iPads the iPad, that I take issue with. As an iPad user, like my M5 iPad Pro is pretty sweet. Like, I really like that thing. And so to say that the iPhone Duo is going to out iPad that, that again, to me, is this is coming from someone who doesn't use the iPad except for watching videos and movies.

31:26Okay, but honestly, you don't think it's going to be just as good at editing podcasts and making shortcuts? Like, the two things you suggested, this device is going to have zero problem doing. Because you already used to edit podcasts on an iPad mini. And this is infinity power more powerful than any iPad mini ever made. When the editing podcast, that's the first thing I want to try. Because I do think the iPhone Duo might be the best device for that ever, that Apple has ever made. But when it comes to like building the shortcuts, that is something where screen real estate and windowing does play a factor.

32:01And so that begins the separation of what is an iPad versus what is an iPhone Duo open. Because my 13-inch or even an 11-inch iPad Pro with windowing, where I can have shortcuts, I can have Claude, I can have Safari open with my shortcuts community. Like, just being able to have those three apps in Windows on the iPad screen makes the iPad a great device for that specific task that the iPhone Duo won't be able to compete with. Because you just, you don't have windowing. I can't have three apps open like that. Sure. So that will be it. And that's not nothing.

32:33Yeah, yeah. It's very niche. Well, I was going to say, I don't know how many people are in your shortcuts community, but that's the entire segment of people who care about the thing you just mentioned. At least 5,000 people. And that's great. I have no shade towards any of them. I know. It was very small. I'm just saying that is not, there's no one at Apple who thinks of the iPad as that. And there's no one outside of your shortcuts community who thinks of the iPad as that. So when Gruber says that, no, there's zero consideration to having three windows open to create shortcuts. Like, just nobody cares. But I also think about Nate, our friend Nate, an artist, and people who might use iPad with Procreate for drawing.

33:08Again, the iPhone Duo might be an interesting device for on the go, but I'm sure that segment of the use would want a 13-inch iPad to have the screen real estate. So all that to say, like, the power of the iPhone Duo with the A20 will play into things like editing a podcast. But I do think to say it's out iPad-ing the iPad, that feels like a step too far. But isn't that like, okay, I don't know. I think I haven't used one, so I can't specifically argue with Gruber.

33:41However, I will say that if you took a – because I have written many times about, like, MacBook Air. And the MacBook Air out MacBooks any other MacBook. That doesn't mean that a 16-inch MacBook Pro isn't better for editing video. It just means that overall, the best form factor you can get in a Mac laptop is a 13-inch MacBook Air. Because it is just the perfect combination of – it's enough power for almost anything that you might want to do. It is small, and it's lightweight, and it is dependable.

34:14I have an M4 MacBook Air. I don't know if I'm ever going to get rid of it. I'm not even kidding. Like, I just love it. It's dialed in. It's maxed out. It has, whatever, 32 gigs of memory and 2 terabytes of storage. I'm just going to keep it forever. And you know what I'm going to do? Anything I need to run more powerful than that, I'm just going to run on the Mac Mini over there. Sure, sure. And that's an interesting distinction. We'll have to see. Let's get it in hand, and let me try and edit a podcast on it. If it arrives in the next one or two hours, I'm going to get a review unit.

34:45This audio version of this show will be edited on iPhone Duo, and I will report back. And you'll probably see it on YouTube. I want to talk about some of the other weird intricacies of things like the camera and the dynamic volume buttons, touch ID. There's a lot of weirdness there. Before we do, I want to thank our sponsors. And the first one, listen, I've been using to vibe code 1,000 apps a week. Not really, but at least one. Almost. It is Claude. And listen, I'll just be honest. I've been using Claude for building my app website, beardfm.app.

35:19Anytime I have an idea for an app or a Mac utility, I will just go to Claude. And one or two prompts later, an hour or so later, it's there. It just boggles my mind. And so I'm in there using Claude code all the time. And I have Claude co-work. Like, I've been getting a lot of emails with things like sponsorships. And it's hard to parse it all. There's a lot going on during Techtober season. And so I will ask Claude co-work that has access to my fast mail. I'll be like, hey, did I get an email from so-and-so? Or what did so-and-so say about this? Or find me the agreement for that.

35:50And being able to just ask Claude to do that with Claude co-work rather than trying to go to the mail app, search for it, try to remember who it was from, it makes all the difference. And so whether it's you want to try your hand at vibe coding and making your own apps for your own use cases or even distribute, or just to help you with your collaboration and productivity by yourself, Claude is incredible for all of that. Claude is the AI for problem solvers. It's the collaborator that understands your entire workflow and thinks with you, not for you. Whether you're debugging code at midnight, building a financial model, or strategizing your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter.

36:25And that context is really good. I talked about this on the Vergecast with David. Because I have now built so much in Claude code, it has so much context on my preferences, what I like, what I'm going to ask it to do when it's building an app, that I don't have to keep telling it the same things over and over again. It's actually getting better at just knowing what I want before I ask for it. And I don't have to keep prompting it and correcting it. It is incredible. And for small businesses. If you have a small business out there and you need help running workflows, or you need help with your tools like QuickBooks and HubSpot and Shopify, or you need to build a website,

36:57Claude built the entire beardfm.app website. And every time I ship an update, it just does it. And then I wanted to be able to have an RSS feed for all of my app updates. So I just asked Claude to do it. I said, just make an RSS feed for these updates. And five minutes later, it was just done. And anybody could follow that RSS feed. It is just a while to me what's capable of it. And I was literally on an entire podcast, the Vergecast, talking about it. So here's what you do. You can try it at Claude.ai slash primary. And check out Claude Pro, which includes access to the features mentioned in today's episode.

37:30That's Claude.ai slash primary. Go build something. That's not their tagline. That's mine. Just go try to build something. It is super fun. And thanks to Claude for sponsoring this episode. And listen, it is tech timber. Apple is releasing a lot of products. Maybe you need to help budget a little bit so you can get all these products. Well, that's where Copilot Money comes in. Copilot Money is a beautiful money managing app on all of your Apple devices. You can keep track of your finances, your recurring expenses. It's on your iPhone, iPad, Mac, and the web.

38:01And it is one of the most beautifully designed money management apps out there. It brings all your spending, net worth, savings goals, budgets, and investments into one intuitive dashboard. And it even automatically categorizes your spending. So there's no more manual spreadsheets or micromanaging your budget. It can handle all of that. And you can track subscriptions so you always know what's renewing and when. If you've not done this with your finances, using a service that can track your subscriptions and notify you when you're about to be charged or just let you know, hey, you're still paying for this thing. Do you want to keep paying for it?

38:32You need to use Copilot Money for that so you can cancel those subscriptions when you don't need them anymore. There's fast, easy setup. Everything is customizable so it fits how you want to manage your money. And it is privacy first. Your data is never sold. There's no ads or upsells. That's the only personal finance app to win an Apple Editor's Choice Award. This is an award-winning app. Like you're listening to an award-winning podcast right now. I promise this is the last episode I'll be doing this. I just want to keep liking it. So here's what you can do. You can get two months for free with promo code PRIMARY. Just go to copilot.money slash PRIMARY and use the promo code PRIMARY and you can get

39:09two free months with that code. The link and promo code is down in the show notes. Copilot.money slash PRIMARY. Thanks to Copilot for sponsoring this episode.

39:19It's just a joke. I keep saying award-winning podcast. I won't do that forever. I mean, but it's true. It's not just a joke. Listen, it's true. And it will always be true that this is an award-winning podcast. Yes. It is forever true. So there's a bunch of weird intricacies about the iPhone Duo. And one of them, I think Brian Tong showed this the best in his video. When it comes to having the Duo open with the camera, because of the orientation of the physical camera on the device, when you're holding the iPhone Duo in portrait open, the camera is in

39:55landscape. So if you're recording a video or taking a picture, there's huge black bars on the top and bottom of the video. And if you try to rotate the device, it will just have black bars on the other side because the camera is just not oriented with the open version of the Duo. And so it is backwards, basically, of how you would expect. If you want to, you know, take a portrait photo, you have to hold the Duo. If you have it open wide, you have to hold it in landscape physically.

Hardware quirks and volume buttons

40:27That's weird. A lot of the reviews said that under screen face camera or center stage camera, like, don't use, don't take it for, don't use pictures. Don't take it, don't use it to take pictures. Like, it's not a good camera. Use the outside camera. But as Brian Tog is showing in his video, when you want to take a selfie with those back cameras, it is a very awkward experience. Like, you have to kind of claw grip the open iPhone Duo to hit the shutter button unless you hold it with your left hand. But then the, like, it's a weird motion to, like, hold the iPhone Duo left side open with

41:03that rear-facing camera facing you and hit the camera button because it's, like, right there on the edge and that you have to weird claw it and there's not a good, like, maybe the volume button's on top, but your arm is now farther in front of you. Like, he said it was just a weird experience taking selfies with this device. It's doable, but you might have some precarious positions of your hand while you're doing it. So. This seems weird. I guess I understand why the orientation thing is the way it is. That feels like the kind of thing Apple would have put the effort into engineer in order

41:35to not make that be the case because, I get it, it is based on the orientation of the back half of the phone, right? And so, which is all, which when it's open is always different than the orientation of the entire device, right? Because it's a half of it. So, that's vertical. But, I mean, they already solved this on the selfie, on the FaceTime camera, right? On the selfie camera allows you to shoot and record in either orientation. Now, that camera's not as good. I understand that. So, maybe the cost of doing that on a higher 48 megapixel would be hard.

42:06Right. This is a premium, premium, premium device, right? It starts at $2,000. This is going to be the kind of thing that once it gets out there to people is going to be, it's going to wreck people's brain because they're going to be like, I don't understand why my phone is so dumb. And it almost seems as though the better option would have been to do, they don't call it open gate, but it's essentially open gate, right? Yeah, square or whatever. Yeah. And have it automatically adjust accordingly. That feels like it would have been the right option.

42:38Although, I don't know how that works on an ultra wide. I guess it could be the same, but you would have needed two of them is my point, right? Right. And supposedly, the 48 megapixel main camera, the iPhone Duo, is a new sensor. However, it is not sharing the sensor, like people will say it's close to the iPhone 17 E or maybe the iPhone Air. And yes, in numbers wise, but this is a unique sensor to the iPhone Duo. Like Apple had to make something new for this device. And so with that in mind, I feel like they could have made something new that was then

43:09so different that it worked for this. Or maybe turn the cameras 90 degrees so the camera plateau is vertical. Like that's how the iPhone 17 is. Well, the reason they didn't do that though is because then it would have been super messed up if it was closed. Right. If it's closed, it would have been. And they must be assuming that people are mostly going to take pictures with it closed. Which I don't actually think is a terrible assumption if you have to make one. Again, this goes back to the bias in favor of the iPhone instead of the iPad. It's like if you have to choose one, you choose the one that you think people will use it the most.

43:39And I do think that the likelihood is that most people will take photos with it closed most of the time. I think so. And it does have the quick take feature or smart take where you can set it up and it will automatically take photos when you pose still wise. And so maybe it's like planning for that. But some of the other weird quirks is the volume buttons, which I forgot about this since the announcement. But every review talked about the volume buttons are on the top when closed.

44:09And then depending on how you are orienting the open iPhone Duo, they might be on the side or the other side or the bottom. And it is awkward. Now, there is a setting in the iPhone Duo where you can have it be dynamic volume buttons. So it will change which is volume up and volume down based on orientation. And that is how some iPads do it. And there had not been a setting on iPad to turn that off. I think on the iPad right now, like the volume buttons are dynamic no matter what.

44:42So this is the first Apple device where they give you a setting to say keep the buttons persistent no matter what the orientation or have them change to be dynamic. And it seemed like a lot of the reviewers were saying you want the dynamic because there's going to be times when you're holding it open watching a video or reel and you tap the up volume button. But if they're not dynamic, it's actually the bottom. And it just clearly feels like the opposite of what it should be doing, which again, it's a challenge of a device that you can hold basically in any orientation and you have physical

45:13buttons that don't move. You know what I mean? Like, right. It's a natural challenge. Are you sure it's the first one? Um, I'm pretty sure that when they switched on the iPad pro or the iPad, uh, was it the iPad air originally that had that feature? I'm pretty sure that there's a, there's a, isn't a setting in iPad OS for that very thing. Is it? Cause I, I remember it being okay. Cause I remember them switching so that the right button. And if you're up at the top was always going to be increased, right? You don't even mean, they got it backwards or something and it wrecked a bunch of people's

45:44brains. And then there was a feature you could turn, you could choose to adjust that so that the, the one that's up when it's portrait orientation is always increased, but I don't, but by default, it's not that way. Right. Well, I'll have to look to see if that was actually a setting. I remember it breaking my brain. Um, oh, and here's this, this is a nice little image of YouTube and, uh, blue sky, you know? So the volume buttons, I would turn on the dynamic volume button stuff, uh, this way it works. Apple is also working on a reachability feature where people were saying, if you, if you want

46:20to use iPhone duo in your left hand, it gets pretty uncomfortable because that side of the iPhone duo when closed has a sharp corner, you know, it's, it's in the shape of a D and if you're right-handed, it's in the great orientation. But if you're left-handed, you're going to have a sharp corner digging into your palm. So it doesn't seem particularly, uh, nice for left-hand users, which Brian Tong apparently discovered he uses his mostly left-handed. Yeah. I use mine always left. I did. It's weird. People talk about right-hand, left-hand. I'm right-handed. I do everything with my right hand except for use my iPhone.

46:52That makes no sense to me. I don't understand that at all, but I, but Brian Tong does it too. So I don't know. Actually a lot of people, in fact, I feel like you're one of the few people I know that that's not the case, but you put it in your left pocket. Because I use it with my left hand. I think that's a chicken and egg thing. I think you started that habit and now you know which one actually started. I don't think so because I was thinking about like, oh, you're like left-handed. The iPhone duo is going to be terrible for people who are left-handed. And then I heard Ben Thompson be like, I'm, I don't know if he said he was left-handed or not, but he's like, I use my iPhone only in my left hand. And I was like, yeah, me, me too.

47:23Like using it in my right hand feels weird. Really? I don't get it. Leave us a five-star rating and review. Please remind us, do you use, if you're, do you use it in your dominant hand or your non-dominant hand? Well, no, but see, I don't, okay. I don't know if that's the right question though. I think there's a two-part question. Do you use it with your right hand or your left hand? And are you right-handed or left-handed? Leave us a five-star rating and review and let us know. Very curious. So that is going to be, and then the reachability, because this is a squat iPhone, like I think

47:53this is the widest iPhone ever, you know, as far as, you know, from left to the right side of the display. And so that's why Apple is working on a reachability feature side to side, you know, reachability right now on the iPhone is from top to bottom because every iPhone has just been tall and taller and taller and taller. But they're working on something to actually go left to right. So that's interesting. We'll see that. Yeah. And I don't know. We have to get it in hand. I want to get, I get mine today, next episode, we'll talk about personal experience. I'm going to do a ton of videos on it, but I'm still excited for it.

48:24I feel like this is a, a fund of, it is new and fun, useful remains to be seen. You know, we'll see how it goes for that and how often, you know, everybody was talking about the cases I have. I actually, I bought these and then I think Apple is sending me these as well, but the iPhone duo folio with kickstand, Alison Johnson at the verge was like, this case kind of stinks because it has like an elastic stretchy part in the middle because it has to be able to fold and unfold and covering the screen. Like I understand protecting it that way, but it will be, I don't know.

48:55Will it be annoying to have to open the phone every time you want to use that screen? And yeah, we'll see. And then, you know, the bumper cases and all that kind of stuff. So we're going to be, I'm going to be testing all the things. We'll be testing all the things. What do you got? What do you got over there? I'm checking. I'm stuck on this button thing, but you can get, you can move on. I believe the newer, like our, our iPad pros and fives don't have it anymore. I think they got rid of it. I thought they did. I feel like they changed it at some point. And so some, some older iPads, I think still have it, which is just a weird thing to have.

49:27I iPad OS have different settings based on like for the buttons based on whether or not, I don't know. So you can move on without me. That's fine. Well, I'll just last couple of things. I'll say the dock icons being smaller than all the other home screen icons looks a little weird because forever on the iPhone, the dock icons are the same size as the rest of the icons. And so that's it. There's a different size there. The fact you can only put four icons in the right hand rail feels a little like, come on. It feels like it's an iPhone though, Steven. Move it up to five though. I mean, this is a very different iPhone.

49:58Like let's just, but again, it's still an iPhone. Yeah. Okay. So there's, and then the last things. Well, hold on. Think about it. I don't know. Well, we don't know if this is true or not. What's that? Well, I was going to say, if you're using the handoff feature, would you want your setup to be different? But I guess you could still set it up however you wanted. Yeah. So the handoff feature, this is a great segue. That's actually, you're welcome. I was going to mention the Gruber mentioned this and I forgot who else, but if you have

50:29handoff, which right now it's just T-Mobile Verizon said it's coming soon. My carrier AT&T are being a bum and they're not bringing handoff to it. Verizon is going to charge $10 a month for this feature. T-Mobile is charging five. But here's the thing. Even if you have the handoff feature, which to be clear is like, let's say you have your iPhone Duo and your 18 Pro. You pick up your iPhone 18 Pro and you go out the door, your cellular plan is on that phone. And if you go back home, you put down the 18 Pro and you pick up the iPhone Duo and when

51:02you unlock it, now your cellular plan is on that phone. So it's supposed to be a seamless switching between phones with the same cellular plan, same number. Cool. One big problem with that is that your Apple Watch can still only be paired to a single iPhone. And so you can have handoff, but your Apple Watch, if it's paired with your 18 Pro, but you pick up your Duo and leave for the day, your Apple Watch is not connecting to your phone.

51:32Like it will not connect to your phone. It will not share your phone's cellular connection. And unless you, you can have cellular on your watch, but now your watch is either using cellular all day that you're not on a Wi-Fi network directly. And it will still track your health stuff, but you will not see that health stuff on your phone until you go back home to the phone that your watch is paired with. And then it syncs up. And that feels like a miss.

Cellular handoff and Apple Watch

51:58Like this would have been a great time for Apple to say, you know what? You can attach just like your AirPods, where you can connect them to any device you have. And then all of your devices signed into your iCloud account will just connect to your AirPods automatically. Man, it feels like this would have been a perfect time to say, and your Apple Watch too. So if you pick up your Duo or you pick up your 18 Pro, your cellular plan carries over seamlessly and your Apple Watch will just know what phone to go to because that's the phone that you unlocked most recently or whatever. That feels like living that two phone lifestyle is more complicated than just the cellular handoff.

52:35Yeah, because I actually think the cellular handoff is pretty simple. I mean, I don't know anything about how any of this stuff works. But if you just imagined you're standing at a whiteboard and you're like, how do we make this work? You just say, both of these eSIMs are active on this line, right? And cellular is just only active if you've unlocked it most recently. Right. But they're both connected to cellular all the time. They just are. They're always connected to the carrier because the carrier has to be able to instantly say, this is the phone. So all that's really happening is that the phone that hasn't been most recently unlocked

53:08has no data, which is not a problem because you're not using it. So that's fine. And it won't ring, right? Incoming calls will only come to the one that's been unlocked most recently. That actually feels like a fairly easy problem to solve. The Apple Watch is extremely complicated. We just talked about like the Siri features, which use the Xclave, the secure Xclave to go from one device to the other. I don't know that you can switch those things that quickly because of the way that those things are paired. It's just a Bluetooth connection. It's an encrypted Bluetooth connection that's only available between two specific devices.

53:41And so you're introducing a whole other level of complexity to that just because I unlocked my phone. And I think that they envision that you're going to basically have a primary phone and a not primary phone. So your watches are probably always going to be connected to your primary phone. And the other one is just like your, I'm living my best life phone. I don't know. Now, chances are pretty good that if you're just living your best life, you probably want your Apple Watch to be a part of it. Right. But I don't know. Maybe the conspiracy theorists are right. They just want people to buy more cellular Apple Watches and then it doesn't matter.

54:14I don't know. By the way, sorry, by the way, I had a real big problem with my Apple Watch recently. It was like dying at like 6 p.m. And I could not figure out my Apple Watch Ultra 2 would just die at like 6 p.m. I'm like, what on earth is happening? Stephen, what do you think was the problem? Was it cellular was on? You didn't know? All the time. And basically, it was paired with my phone, but was not connecting to my phone. So it was just running cellular all the time and an Apple Watch Ultra 2 running on cellular all the time does not make it 60 whatever hours.

54:45It's also four years old now. Oh, yeah. It does great. I mean, it's going to be it's still at 100 percent and I've been wearing it for three hours. Okay. Well, I've been wearing mine for not 12 hours, probably nine hours. I'm at 84 percent. Yeah. You're sleeping most of that time. But yeah. Yeah, I know. But but I'll just say the the series 12 ceramic battery life has been fine just as a two week follow up. I end the day like around 30 to 40 percent. Yeah, it's fine. So I don't know. I feel like the Apple Watch pairing to the iPhone. Apple could have figured this out like in some way, even if it's you have to pair it with

55:18both iPhones once to like make the connection, the secure connection. But what is the problem? If like you're saying, let's say you're you have your Apple Watch paired to your iPhone 18 Pro. But you're going to the park and you want to bring your duo for whatever reason. Well, you can either not have your Apple Watch connected to anything so you won't get notifications on the watch. You won't be able to use it, send a text message, whatever. Or you have to have cellular on that whole time. And like you just said, that's going to kill the watch battery and it might die while you're

55:51out there. And so that's the issue of of not being able to at least use even if it doesn't do the secure secure exclave stuff. Like, OK, don't do the audio intelligence stuff, at least connect to the iPhone to share the Internet connection. So your watch has connectivity, gets the notifications, but isn't depending on its own cellular network. You know what I mean? Sure. I mean, the solution is you just carry both phones or just buy two watches, a watch for each phone. You know what I mean? Ceramic for the duo. Ultra for the. Wow. Don't do that. No, don't do that.

56:22All right. Last last iPhone duo thing. I just wanted to show Austin Mann did a dedicated camera review for the duo. And listen, bottom line, the duo, you're not going to have the same camera experiences on the 18 Pro. You don't have the telephoto camera, but also the duo camera. Pretty good. You know, he took a bunch of photos. He went to Iceland and he's watching the Secret Life of Walter. Oh, that's a great callback. Secret Life of Walter Mitty watching on the plane to Iceland. Well played. Well played.

56:53But the, you know, pictures he takes with the iPhone duo, they're they're beautiful. And so, you know, you'll get good pictures. Selfies might be awkward. You know, you don't have the telephoto, but it's fine, I think. For most people. And I'll just say your photos won't look like Austin Mann's. I mean, Austin Mann could take this brawny that's back here that doesn't even work and get a great photo out of it. He could take a literal paper towel roll and make a better picture. Absolutely. But, you know, he's Austin Mann. He's Austin Mann. And 27.2, again, that's where Apple Pencil support comes in for the iPhone duo.

57:25I want to be talking about that specifically in my videos. So anyway, all that's coming. We'll talk more about the iPhone duo when we actually have it in hand. Not that we had any. We were not at a lack for words this week to talk about the iPhone duo. So, but yeah, we'll also have all the new announcements to talk about next week, too.

Walmart and agentic shopping

57:40All right. Lightning round. Let's talk about Walmart. They're like, bring on the AI agents. If you want to shop with your AI agents, just go for it. You know, this is where Amazon blocked Muse. So Muse couldn't shop on it. I have had some pretty poor experiences trying to get Muse and other agents to buy things for me. But apparently, if you want to buy it from Walmart, Walmart's like, bring it on. Let's do it. And they now accept Apple Pay. Kudos to Walmart. I mean, I wrote about this, too.

58:10So you could have shown my article. That's still fine. Wait, wait, today? Was it today? Was it today? No, it was yesterday. It was last night. I wrote about it. It was last night. Here's the thing. Think about this real carefully. These are the two largest companies in the world by revenue, right? They're like within $3 billion of each other, which is kind of insane, right? Although shopping-wise, Walmart is bigger because Amazon's numbers includes AWS. So like whatever. Oh, sure. But Amazon is obviously the world's largest online retailer. Walmart is not, right? About 25% of their revenue comes from online sales.

58:42Most of Walmart's revenue comes from people walking in the building and buying things and taking them home. And likewise, Amazon makes about $70 billion a year from ads that it forces sellers to sell and then forces us to wade through ads for garbage on their site in order to find the one thing that we're actually looking for. So Amazon cares very much about your eyeballs looking at its website so it can charge money to the sellers to show all of that garbage. It's the worst experience.

59:13Amazon is the single website where an agent would be the most useful thing in the whole world because it is, I hate it. I hate everything about its website. It's so bad. Yeah, it is warranted. And Walmart makes like $6 billion a year from ads. And a lot of that is from Vizio, right? With its connected TV advertising stuff. So the point is Walmart doesn't have the same problem as Amazon because it's fine if the agents are shopping on your behalf because it doesn't care that much. I mean, it cares a little bit about ads, but what it's basically saying is that is not

59:43so much of a business for us yet. But this agent agentic shopping thing might be in the future the way. So we should just get there first. We should. It's like the if someone's going to usurp the iPod, it might as well be the iPhone, right? It's that kind of a mentality. And I think that that makes a lot of sense. And what they're doing. Sorry, not I know this is a lightning round, but I think this is super interesting. Walmart is essentially building the technology to make this even easier. So if you say to chat GPT, here's a photo of a dorm room. Could you buy me? Could you find me the futon and the bookshelf and the whatever for my daughter?

1:00:13You can just give that to chat GPT. Walmart's basically building an MCP server for agents. So they don't have to click around the website and try to log in and make transactions. They can just go straight to the shopping platform to do that. And when you do that, it will actually create a profile in your Walmart account for the agent. You can give permission to that. So just like you could have like you and your wife have separate shopping profiles. It'll create one for you for the agent. And you can be like, you are authorized to spend up to $50, $100, $200.

1:00:45You can either give it the permission to make the purchases on its own or require approval when it finally, when it gets to that point of making it. And you'll be able to see a record of the agent's purchases separate from your own. They're like just enabling all this. They're building an MCP server. They're creating agent profiles. And they're just like leaning all the way in. They're like, listen, we're going to be the preferred way to use agents to shop. Because the truth is, you can basically get everything you can get on Amazon at Walmart. I mean, there's not specific brands necessarily, but like you're looking for a new charger.

1:01:18You can get one at Walmart. It's not going to be a problem. And so they're just like, what if we were the place where people who wanted to do this, we can experiment with it now. It actually doesn't cost us that much because even if all of our ad revenue disappeared tomorrow, it's less than 1% of our total business. It's like fine. Whereas for Amazon, it's like 10% of its total business. Big deal. So anyway. Well, honestly, that's super interesting. You know, Walmart for years has been trying to compete with even just like the two-day delivery that Amazon gives you.

1:01:48And like you can pay for the Walmart. Don't you play for Walmart Plus? We have Walmart Plus. But you're, sorry, I was going to say, in Target is actually the same. Right. Buying things online from Walmart and Target is so much better of an experience than buying them from Amazon. You know why? Because it shows up in two hours. Yeah. Why? Because I live four miles away from a Walmart. Now, I also live almost the exact same distance from an Amazon place, but they still won't deliver it the same day. It'll just come the next day. So they have leveraged all of their stores as distribution centers.

1:02:21Can I, do you remember or have you seen the, well, who's the Kara Swisher's co-host on Pitchfork? Pitchfork. Not Pitchfork. Are you talking about Scott Galloway? Scott Galloway. Thank you. Pivot is the name of the podcast, by the way. What is it? Isn't it Pivot? Pivot. I was, I don't know. I was thinking Pitchfork. Okay. Yeah. Pitchfork is like the music thing. Scott Galloway had a talk.

1:02:51This could have been five years ago called The Four Horsemen. Yeah. And he wrote a book. It's called Four Horsemen. He wrote a book. Right back there. Oh, you have it? Yeah. Yeah. So I will, I will put the talk. This is from 11 years ago. And I remember watching this video where he talked about Amazon, Google, Apple, and Facebook at the time, before it was meta. And I have returned to this talk multiple times over the years because it is wild how

1:03:25many things he called correctly. And one of them was that Amazon would have to get into the physical brick and mortar space. And a few years after this talk, they acquired Whole Foods, which is, you know, their brick and mortar space. And a bunch of the other things that he talked about in this talk, just, it was just wild. This is going to be my top five tech link this week for what to watch, because I think it is a, it was just wild. So whatever you think about Scott Galloway, like this talk, I think is fascinating and,

1:03:56you know, worth a watch. But Walmart and Target, you know, that two hour shipping. Thankfully, Amazon has a close enough thing to me where I can order a lot of things for three hour delivery. I can pay like two or three dollars and get it in two or three hours. That is not the case, like you're saying, for most people in the United States. Like most people do not live that close. But Walmart competing on that now, plus the agentic thing. I was just complaining to my family the other day. Anytime I try to buy something on Amazon, I cannot go to my cart without trying to be upselled

1:04:29on bananas. I don't know why they think I'm going to order a bunch of bananas along with my MagSafe battery every time. But I can, like, I have to see two additional screens before I get to my cart with like whole food things to buy. Like, do you want a banana? Do you want eggs? I'm like, I know I do not. And honestly, this, I'm not a futurist or one, whatever. But if Amazon continues to fight the AI agent shopping aspect of the business, I think they

1:05:02could lose because to some market share to a player like Walmart. Because honestly, if I could just tell an agent, buy me toilet paper and paper towels, and that could be it. And I don't have to think about it after doing that. That's tempting to me. Because doing that in Amazon, while it's not a ton of friction, I open the app, I search for the thing, I choose the product, you know, I have to look for which one was my previously purchased because I just want to buy the exact same thing. And then say, no, I don't want bananas. If I could offload that and only just give it a prompt that it runs, like that is a tempting

1:05:36thing. And like you're saying, paper towels and toilet paper, I can get it from Walmart or Amazon and it doesn't matter. So, curious. Well, and Amazon is not opposed to agentic shopping. It just wants, it's building its own Alexa agentic shopping, which you know is going to suck. It's just not going to be good. There's just, because the incentives are different. The incentives are, we have to, if we build this thing, we have to figure out a way to get the ads in front of you because that is such a significant part of their business model. It is bananas that they keep showing you bananas. Let's just be honest.

1:06:06But you already explained why. They bought Whole Foods. Right. Now, the only thing that's wrong, and I was wrong, the name of the book is actually called The Four, not The Four Horsemen. The Four Horsemen was the lecture. But the problem with that actually is Whole Foods was their effort to get into groceries. Right? You cannot go into a Whole Foods and buy Amazon things. Right? They don't have Amazon brand charging cables in there. They don't have my MagSafe battery. It's Whole, yeah, you can't, there's not an anchor section in there. Right? Like, it's Whole Foods. And so they have all the Whole Foods stuff.

1:06:38It was their, the one product category that they could not store in warehouses and deliver in two days is groceries. So they needed a grocery store. So they bought Whole Foods. That is not their physical brick and mortar business because they're, what I think Scott Galloway is getting into is like, they needed to have Amazon store. And every time they've tried, they have not been able to figure it out because they are thinking of it as an Amazon product and experience, not as a physical retail. And I actually think that as Walmart catches up and target to some extent, that it is going

1:07:11to be harder and harder for Amazon. They, because the single biggest competitive advantage that Amazon has had for right now is its distribution network. But here's the thing, Stephen, my wife can order something on Walmart plus or whatever in that membership comes with free shipping. Right. Do you know how it gets shipped to us? Like individual carrier. A guy goes to the store, grabs it off the shelf and brings it to my house. It's like DoorDash. It's delivery, but it's free because it is shipping. They call it shipping.

1:07:41And it's like, they just go to the store, grab the thing. Two hours later, it's been delivered to you. And it's like, Amazon just can't compete with that. Right. Which I do see a lot of random people delivering my Amazon packages. So like they have that aspect of it, but they also have this massive infrastructure. I think that's just overflow staff though. They are like outsourcing it to DoorDash or whatever. Right, right, right. Exactly. Which actually would be kind of amazing. Amazon should just let DoorDash people into their warehouses and just let them deliver it within 40 minutes. It is the same people, like to be honest. Like I'm sure these people. In some cases, you're probably right. I had a friend who like his side gig was he would do DoorDash and he would do Amazon.

1:08:14And I would like, we would be working together. And then he would say like, I'm going to check what I'm going to do tonight. Maybe I'll do Uber. Maybe I'll do DoorDash. Maybe I'll deliver some Amazon packages. Like that's just the thing that people do. Isn't the secret that if you pay for the $9 same day delivery from an Apple store, it just comes from a DoorDash driver? I don't know if it's DoorDash, but it is, it is an individual courier. Yeah, it is. It is the thing. But anyway, now that's super fascinating. So now I'm glad we did that. Good, good lightning round topic. That was good.

Netflix and Meta updates

1:08:42Claude Duet, speaking of agents, Claude finally announced their Muse competitor. So you got Meta Muse, you have ChatGPT Dots, and now you have Claude Duet, which I'll be honest, I think the name is great. I like all the music references that Claude and Anthropic does. So maybe that's why I'm partial to them. No, I think it's pretty good. But anyway, it's a waitlist preview now. So it's not open to everybody. I joined the waitlist immediately. And this is going to do the things that Muse does.

1:09:12And we're going to talk about impersonal tech. I don't know, I've been finding more and more use cases from Muse, and I'm now interested to try, I mean, if Claude Duet is good, which I imagine it will be, like, I'm going to leave Muse to the wayside, like I don't need it. So I'm curious. We'll see. We'll see what comes out. How do I join the waitlist? Some random person on X posted a link and I joined the waitlist. I don't know. I would just Google it, Claude Duet waitlist, because, oh, it's right here. The link is in the video description. Claude.com slash Claude-Duet.

1:09:45Okay. And so. I need you to join the waitlist. I'll be right back. Yeah, yeah. I just need a YouTube video, not the link. Anyway, just go to that video and the link is there. So that's Claude Duet. More soon on that. The Meta Settlement, if you remember the Cambridge Analytica debacle that Facebook had years ago, well, they had to pay a lot of money. Oh, I'm sorry. This is the Meta Muse thing. The Meta Muse hits like 10 million U.S. downloads in 40 days. It's super popular. We'll talk about Muse in a second. But also, Meta was ordered to pay $25 billion for the Cambridge Analytica scandal.

1:10:19And you wrote about this as well. I'm going to put your links for both Walmart and this in the show notes. Well, I didn't write about this yet, actually. Oh, I'm sorry. You wrote about the Netflix layoffs. Yes. I actually will write about this at some point. But basically, the moral of the story is New Mexico held out when all the other states settled for like less than a billion dollars. And they ended up with the $25 billion settlement. Sometimes waiting. I'm moving to New Mexico or whatever they're going to call it in the future. Or whatever you call it. And then finally, this is what you wrote about. Netflix, after laying off 1,000 employees, reported a record quarter.

1:10:53What was the deal? Yeah, they had their best quarter ever in terms of revenue and operating profit. I guess their net income was down a little bit because they had a quarter where they had a bunch of like non-operating income that would count it as. I don't even know what that means. I'm not a financial analyst. It just seems weird to do it six days after you lay off 1,000 people. But basically, what they're saying is we think that there'd be a better way to spend our money than helping these people pay their mortgage. So what we're going to do is invest it in other things instead. And they also just fired their head of content team people because they're just like, we've got to refocus on these things.

1:11:25And the truth is the things that they want to get into are things like live sports. It's going to cost them a ton of money. It's going to cost them a lot of money to do that. They are doing more content licensing deals. I think that there's a story recently that they're just bringing some Disney stuff back to Netflix. I can't even remember what it was. But they're like, we could pay these 1,000 people or actually we could just buy better shows. So I think they're going to buy the better shows. Interesting. They actually put on the Vergecast, they put Netflix on the Go90 scale. They put it a little higher on their risk.

1:11:57And it's because, and I've said this in the thing, and it's not an original thought. A lot of people have said this because their number one competitor is YouTube, and YouTube pays $0 for the content. Right. Right. So, all right. Well, I'll link to all of Jason's articles down in the show notes.

Muse and agent workflows

1:12:11Personal tech real quick. I just want to give a little Muse update. Still don't install Muse on your Mac. Still don't. Don't. Whatever you do. Any updates on your side as far as clarity? They stopped talking to me, I guess. Oh, did they? I mean, I haven't heard back. Okay. Well, there you go. I mean, I haven't followed up either, but like they have not responded anymore. So. Well, that's unfortunate. And it, well, so still don't install Muse on your Mac because it's going to do weird things. I'm only using it on the iPhone and iPad app in its little sandbox.

1:12:46But Jason, I've been finding more and more useful things for it to do. And did I tell you how it, I couldn't remember the name of my college intro to lit professor. And so I asked Muse and I found it. Did I tell you about that? That's terrifying. I think I talked about that on Mac power users. So I'll save that story for that. But I've been using it more often to monitor things like for the signal awards. I had to say, I said, let me know when the winners are announced and let me know if we won, you know, things like that. Yeah. But then also, the, I posted on all four social media platforms for apps for iPhone Duo.

1:13:24I said, hey, developers, if you have an app that's going to be updated for iPhone Duo, let me know because I want, you know, I'm going to make a video. And hundreds of replies, as you would expect. And so I was like, man, that's going to be a lot of work to aggregate. Threads is already part of Meta, so it can read all those replies. Blue Sky and Mastodon are open, so it should be able to read those. So I went and I told Muse, I gave Muse the links to my social media posts across all the platforms.

1:13:54And I said, Muse, look at all the replies across all the platforms and just put together a comprehensive list of all the apps that were mentioned and their links that they shared in the posts. And this one, it worked for a little while. It took a couple hours, actually. And it needed me to sign in to a couple of social media platforms. And I wouldn't recommend doing this, but I was like, whatever. Sure. It already has access to all your Meta social media platforms. It already has access to them. Right. And, you know, I use iCloud passwords and 1Password, and I have unique logins.

1:14:26I'm like, whatever. You want to log in to my Blue Sky, go for it. And so it logged in so it could read all the replies, because many of those are blocked unless you're actually logged in. And I actually had to, like, go to the little web browser in the Meta conversation and, like, tap around in this janky screen sharing way. But once I had access, Jason just did it, and it spit out a PDF. And if I look at the PDF right here, I'll just share it. I'll just share. I'll screen share this PDF that I put together. I also told it to deduplicate the list. So it's like if there's any duplicate apps across the things, like, don't do that.

1:15:00Look at this. It just has a list of – how many apps is this?

1:15:06176 apps that it put together across all those mentions, and it put together all the links with the apps that people replied to my posts with. Like, that saved me probably several hours of work. And now I have one place to go, and I can just quickly download all these apps when I get my iPhone Duo and choose the ones to feature, and, like, done. And, like, yeah. I don't – like, Claude may have been able to do that with browser control, but it might have been harder for Claude.

1:15:38Because, A, it doesn't have access to my meta account, and Threads is going to be ornery about logging in. And I don't know. I felt like Muse was the place to go. Now, Claude Duet, when that comes out, I would 100% have tried it there. But using Muse, again, don't put it on your Mac. Claude would have just done this because it can use your browser. It can literally use your Chrome browser, and if you're already logged in, it would have been fine. It would have been fine. And, yeah, it probably could have done it. But I also – I mean, that browser would have to be open on one of my Macs doing that task in the background, which might have been fine.

1:16:12I do that all the time. I do it a lot, but I also record a lot of podcasts. So, like, there are times where I don't want Claude messing with Brave. You know what I mean? And I don't know – if I don't know how long it's going to take, I like the fact that I can just hand it to Muse, and Muse is doing it on its own browser somewhere else. Sure. And I know the Claude app now has, like, a built-in browser. But I'm looking forward to Claude Duet, where it can use some VM in the cloud to do this kind of task. Yeah, and that's the reason you don't need to install Muse on your computer is that it already has a computer in the cloud.

1:16:44Exactly. It doesn't need your computer. So, I've had some interesting – have you still been using Muse at all? Yeah. I mean, we didn't get off on the best foot. So, I'm cautious. I do have it – so, here's the – okay. Here's my problem with Muse. First of all, I was like, okay, I'm trying to sell something on Marketplace. Could you just – anytime somebody sends me a Facebook message – because, again, that already has access to my Facebook message.

1:17:14I mean, they're encrypted, whatever, fine. But it's meta. Go ahead. You can have access to the garbage that comes to me in my Facebook messages. And just let me know if someone is interested in this thing. And then I'll tell it – respond to that person or whatever. But then it started to, like, three hours ago, someone sent you a message. You still haven't responded. And they look like they're ready to pull the trigger. I'm like, you're too – you're too zealous. You need to settle down. And then it would say, you should do this. I'm like, stop telling me what to do. I don't need you to – I'm a person.

1:17:46I know what to do. I've done this before. I don't need any help. I just want you to literally do the thing that I asked you to do. And the thing I originally asked it to do was, well, whatever. Send me a brief every morning. Tell me every morning, here are five things that happened yesterday that could be worth writing about. And it would do that. But then it started sending me updates throughout the day. Hey, post-brief, this thing happened. You should know about it. And you should consider this and this and this. And I finally had to say, stop. I don't want you to make any – I asked you to send me a brief.

1:18:16I never asked you to update me any time a story happened anywhere in the world that could be tangentially related to technology. What are you doing? Why do you keep doing this? And it has such a hard time just being constrained to the goal that you give it. It wants to just do more and more and more. Maybe that's helpful. The point is I did not ask it to do that. And it is super annoying and it has made me want to use it less because I don't – guess what? You know what I also don't like when something nags me all the time?

1:18:48I don't like when humans do that. Like no one wants to be nagged by a robot or a person. So anyway, I do have to do a brief. I've been trying to get something sold on Marketplace. And to some extent, I hate messages. Like I hate dealing with that back and forth. So it's been helpful. But also, I don't trust it to not have someone show up at my house. So I have to still basically babysit it anyway. So I don't know that it's actually more helpful. Yeah. And I've been running into that like yesterday. It sent me a message.

1:19:19Quick one for your iPhone Duo video. Apple Pencil support landed early. It's in 27.2. And then it said, launch context. If you need a should you buy Friday angle, supply is severely constrained. Most preorders are slipping into January. Like I didn't ask it for any of that information. And I already knew all that information. But like I don't like that it's suggesting that kind of stuff. Yeah. It's way too eager. It's way too eager. And that is the biggest problem. I'm hoping Claude Duet is more conservative on that side.

1:19:52So that's Muse and Agents. And once Claude Duet comes out, we'll talk about that.

Local models and Mac hardware

1:19:57One other one I just want to throw in here. I've been enjoying local models with LM Studio. And I have all my shortcuts now that run the local models. And I tried a new model, Gemma, which is Google's open weight model. It was immediately making my shortcuts fail because it was timing out. And when you use the get contents of URL action and shortcuts, it has a limited amount of time it'll run before it just stops. And Gemma was stopping that all the time because it has a thinking mode.

1:20:30I didn't realize that. So in LM Studio, I went to my Gemma model and I stopped thinking. I stopped at thinking. Quit thinking. Just do it. Don't think. Don't think. Don't think. Just do. Top Gun Maverick. And once I stopped at the thinking part, super fast and even better than Quinn when it comes to summarizing articles. And so I'm now on the Gemma local model train and really thinking about trading in my Mac minis for an M6 Mac mini. So we'll see. We'll see. Why would you get an M5 Pro? I don't know.

1:21:02It'd be more expensive. Just get an M5 Pro. Because that's the only option in a, yeah, that's the other option, right? The two nanometer process of the M6 got me like, I like that idea. Just to make it a crazy face. And the M5 Pro is more expensive. The only thing I want it to do is I'm going to screen share in and tell Claude to make a change on some apps. Number one. And number two, run the local model through my shortcuts. Which is GPU cores.

1:21:28What? The local model? Yeah. Sure. But it's got two neural engines, Jason. That doesn't help that at all. It doesn't help with the AI processing? No. Not for running the local models. Apple, if you're listening, I need an M5 Pro, maxed out Mac mini, and an M6 Mac mini back. Because I already sent it back. I need those two things so I can do a side-by-side test. You don't even need it maxed out. I mean, 48 gigs of memory is enough to run. I need it maxed out, Jason. Maxed out.

1:21:58I think 48 gigs is maxed out, isn't it? What's the most you can put in a Mac mini? Oh, okay. I don't want to send mixed signals if Apple's listening. I want to send it maxed out. M5 Pro. Hold on. Now I've got to see. Mac mini. I'm going to go. Anyway, that's what I want my Mac mini to be doing now. So I've got to get one. M5 Pro starts at $1,700. Higher. You can get it to 64 gigs. You're right. Okay. And you can get eight terabytes in that thing. I'm not getting eight terabytes. Wow. It would cost more than your Tesla.

1:22:28But you can get eight terabytes in that thing. It would. $3,300. See, I don't want the M5 Pro. No. I'm good with the M6. 32 gigs of memory. One terabyte SSD. That's sub two grand. And if I trade in three Mac minis, that's like just a few hundred dollars difference. That's all I'm saying. I'm saying you're going from 12 cores GPU to 20 core GPO. That's for what you want to do. I'm just telling you. Okay. I'll think about it. Okay. I'll think about it. I don't know why. The good news is you don't have to upgrade the hard drive, the SSD, for what you're going

1:23:00to do. Sure. But then I also have like the, every time I think about doing this, which has been 12 times in the last two days, because David Sparks has me thinking about it. Since we started recording. Since Mac Power Users on Tuesday, because David Sparks traded in his M2 Ultra, no, M2 Max Mac Studio for an M6 Mac mini. Every time I think about it. That's my bonkers. You should listen to that episode because he got flack for that from everybody. Everybody. Was that this last week's? Two episodes ago, before the Michael Whalen episode, he talked about how he traded in his M2 Max.

1:23:30Listen to this, Jason. Eight terabyte SSD. Yeah. He traded it in for an M6 Mac mini. He could have taken just the eight terabyte SSD and someone would have just, it's like when it's like stripping capper out of an old abandoned house. He could have just sold the SSD for probably $40,000. He probably could have bought an M5 Ultra. Anyway, you should listen to that. He got a lot of flack for that. I feel like I did listen to that one. Maybe, maybe you did, but he's, he's the one that has been convincing me. It was actually a bonus episode in our MPU Pro Max feed when he first talked about it.

1:24:02And then he talked about it. The full Sparky. I have nine minutes left of that episode. So maybe I didn't get to that part. It might be, but it might have the most. Anyway, I've been thinking about it since then. But every time I do, I'm like, oh man, I can have an M6 Mac mini doing all this stuff. I'm also like, I sit at this Mac studio all day and it is really nice just to be able to command tab over to Claude and give it a command. I'm like, do I want a separate Mac to do that? That is the question that I'm thinking. Do I want a separate Mac? Not a problem. Claude will just, you just run, you just type into Claude on your, on your Mac studio and

1:24:32it'll run on the Mac mini. Really? I do. My MacBook Air never runs any of that Claude stuff on it. I just, I'm using the Claude app on the MacBook Air, but it is controlling Claude usually on this MacBook Pro. Does it work consistently? Because every time I try to do the remote control for my iPhone with the Claude app, it never works well. You have tail scale now. It'll be fine. Oh, and you just do the Claude RC command in the conversation or what do you do? Hold on a second.

1:25:01Jason is rummaging around. Getting the MacBook Air out. Oh, he's getting the MacBook Air out. Well, because there are three ways you can do that. Okay. So this is the, this is the thing I've been running into. Yes. Tell me. So help me, Obi-Wan. You're my only hope. Because I try to do the Claude RC command that it never works well. So there's cloud, remote control, SSH or local. And I just SSH into the MacBook Pro. And so because I'm using tail scale, it was easy. Do you know, you know what SSH is, Kirschel?

1:25:33Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just doing everything on the MacBook Pro. But the interface is, it's like I'm using the Claude app. Hold on. If you were using the Claude app on my MacBook Pro, or in your case, the Mac Mini, right? It would be doing things essentially using terminal command line interface or whatever to code to whatever, whatever. I can use the Claude app on my MacBook Air, but it is doing the same thing running it on the MacBook Pro. It is not like I'm using the Claude app on MacBook Air to control the Claude app on the MacBook Pro.

1:26:03Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm using the Claude app on the MacBook Air to just do stuff on the MacBook Pro. Does that make sense? I know. Okay. I get what you're saying. And this, is this dispatch or no? No. Okay, we'll talk about this all the time. All right, we'll talk about it. All right, yeah, we'll talk about this because I want to set this up now. Great. So we will, we'll follow up. We'll follow up. Maybe this is next week's personal tech. We're going to talk about iOS 27 bugs because Jason, he's got a rant in him, I think, about iOS 27. I've had some issues too. If you want to hear the bonus episode, get an ad-free version of the show, get our pre-show,

1:26:37the unedited feed. You can do that by supporting the show. That link is down in the show notes. You can also support us directly on Apple Podcasts. And you get all the shows there. And leave us a five-star rating and review in Apple Podcasts. Let us know what hand do you use your iPhone in and what hand or what pocket do you put your phone in and are you left or right-handed? Five-star rating and review. Let us know. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. We'll catch you next time.