S03E16 - Dr. Robert Schoch // The True Age of Civilization

Introduction

0:00Spring is here, and look at you. You're still stressed. Allow me to introduce the all-new Acora Plunge Collection. Designed to combine performance, durability, and elegance, and available in 15 or 19 feet. It's perfect for training, cooling off, or dramatically floating while rethinking your life choices. And remember, every spa comes loaded, covered, cover lifts, steps, chemical kit, and delivered right to your spot. You just sit, you just soak, and you forget everyone's name. Dynasty Spas. Exit 49 in Athens. Online at DynastySpaStore.com.

New Year

0:55All right, it's 2020. Happy New Year. Happy New Year, people. We live in the future. Man, the year of perfect vision. Yo, 2020. I can remember, like, over a decade ago, being in a, like, leadership summit retreat, working on just, like, projections, forecasting, leadership training, all the things.

1:27Yo, I'm in corporate over here. Yeah, you know, you know. Pointing at charts and shit in PowerPoint. Yeah, and it was, like, a pie chart, too, but it was just a chart of all the pies I like. You're like, 100% of the time, this works 60% of the time, or the inverse of that. But also, I like pie. And pie. But basically, the entire, like, purpose of that presentation was to, like, run a projection for the year 2020. It's like, here we are. Weird. It's a real time, real place, insofar as anything exists. Yeah. We are here now in 2020.

1:57Yeah. Wow, what a tumultuous year 2019 was, and so much more fun lurking around the corner in 2020. Right. And next year, for, you know, anybody out there who is our age or above, next year marks the year in which, when you look at a driver's license, for somebody to legally consume alcohol in the United States of America, that date of birth is going to be the year 2000. And it's going to change the cigarette age now, too. I saw that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good on you, America. Way to do things.

2:28But, yeah, you're old, first of all. Anybody for whom the year 2000 has significant meaning like that or who potentially even got Y2K'd at the time, like, you're also old. Know that. Yeah. Gnarly. Man. 2020. 2020, and we are here starting this year off strong. Yeah. So, we got to break you guys off on something amazing real quick.

Great Courses Plus

2:50So, we are very, very excited to announce our partnership with The Great Courses Plus. Great Courses Plus. And if you guys are not familiar with this platform, I want you guys to open up a browser tab right now and check it out because it is amazing how much content, material, just topics, lessons, lectures, all the things that they have made accessible to people like you and me. And let's be real. You don't listen to this show because you don't enjoy knowing things.

3:21Right. Every single person who is hearing any of these words at any point, whether you're a long-time listener or somebody who just tuned in, chances are there is a 100% chance that it's because you're somebody who wants to know things. Yes. It's because you're somebody who's questioning things. It's because you're somebody who has a personal sense of pride about knowing a diverse and broad and deep set of topics. And we can say without hesitation that this is a 100% Great Courses Plus is a 100% aligned service with that kind of feeling that you have.

3:55That is exclusively what they're there for. Yes. Not trying to sell you anything else, not trying to get you to buy merch or anything like that. They're literally just there to let you take some of the greatest courses in the world, taught by some of the smartest, highest-end professors at some of the best institutions in the world. Yep. At your fingertips, 24-7, 365, one of the world's largest, most accessible tomes of knowledge right there at your fingertips. Yeah, and I love you had said broad and diverse, and man, that could not be more on the money, right? Like, they have courses that I know 100% the listeners of this show are going to connect with, you know, stuff about secret societies, ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, tips on, like, travel photography, cooking, so on and so forth.

4:37But, like, they go down so many rabbit holes within so many different niches, spaces, topics, just everything. If there's a thing out there that you want to learn, you have the ability to obtain that information from a pro in that field through the Great Courses Plus.

Featured Course

4:53So, we are going to be focusing on a featured course right now, which is really cool. I know, again, everybody listening to the show will definitely connect with this. That course is the ancient civilizations of North America, right? So, there are going to be so many different topics that this course covers, like, you know, thinking about the fact that there are 5,000-year-old pyramids in Louisiana. Right. Like, 1,000 years ago, the ancient city of Kohikia, located just outside modern-day St. Louis, had a population of 40,000, 1,000 years ago.

5:27Right. So, we are so stoked to announce that because of our partnership with the Great Courses Plus, you, the listeners and supporters of Lost Origins, are going to be able to get yourselves a nice little deal. So, right now, they are offering Lost Origins listeners a solid deal of three months of unlimited access to any course for just $30. Right? That's $10 a month. $10 a month. I mean, like, I just recently took the thermodynamics course taught by Professor Jeffrey Grossman. One, this guy teaches this course at MIT.

5:59Yes. Not only could I not get into MIT, but I definitely don't want to be paying the, like, $70,000, $80,000 a year to try to get access to sit in a lecture hall and on his time or on the school's time, watch this course. But the fact that I got to do this, I'll tell you, I would pay far more than that just to take this course. And I've taken these two courses, like we were just talking about before this, over the course of a few weeks on my own time, my own schedule, massive knowledge, $10 per month, three months, $30.

6:29Can't beat it. Crazy deal. Right? And it's unlimited access, which is amazing. Because if you were to go in and, like you had said, pay for these courses individually, it's a night and day difference. And you don't hear from us, you know, trying to push a lot of products on you guys. You know, we're not talking about things that are stupid here. This is something that, for real, we are going to continue using. And, frankly, like, we'd love to hear from you. Which courses are you taking? Are you taking a course that's similar to one of the other history courses we're taking? This is something that we think we're going to be pretty serious about for a long time, guys. So, get involved. So, for you guys to scoop up this offer, if you are on the media section of the website, we have the link right there on this episode's page.

7:06Just click it. Otherwise, open your browser, go to thegreatcoursesplus.com forward slash Lost Origins, all one word, and enter the coupon code LostOrigins at checkout. And you will be able to scoop that deal, get your learn on, and like CK said, loop back with us. Let us know what you think. Let us know what you are diving into. I feel like there's going to be some good opportunities for future conversations and episodes of the show based on the content that we're digging out of that platform. No doubt.

7:37Thegreatcoursesplus.com slash LostOrigins. Do it up.

Dr Robert Shock

7:42So, today's episode. True legend in the field. Straight up. Today, we have Dr. Robert Shock, the moment that all of you have been waiting for. Man, I tried so hard to keep my shit together and not fanboy. I think I did pretty all right. Yeah, I will say that he, for somebody who's so used to probably dealing with a lot of people's admiration in this field and being kind of one of the OGs who really helped people start questioning a lot of the timeline mechanics, specifically surrounding ancient Egypt. One of the foremost thinkers on Gobekli Tepe spent a lot of time with Dr. Anthony West, specifically being not just like a lead researcher from afar, but actually on the ground, in the field, helping with excavation, helping with identification.

8:25But this guy could not have been more gracious with his time. Straight up. Yeah, Dr. Shock and his wife were incredibly kind. They had to get on a flight and they, you know, stayed with us with their bags, like, you know, just having a real deal conversation. And I will say that we learned something in every one of these discussions, but to learn it from the guy who actually did the research was pretty incredible. It was such a cool experience. I'm so excited that, like, not only did we get to rip through his most recent research and work on Gobekli Tepe, but we also spent a significant chunk of time talking through the book that was released prior to that, Forgotten Civilization, which really places a heavy emphasis on coronal mass ejections.

9:05But also, just Easter Island, the Moai, all the things, it was a really, really cool, like, departure from the normal Dr. Shock, you know, like the ancient civilizations that he's exploring. And I'm really glad that we were able to pick his brain on that face-to-face. Yeah, huge. So, for the last time, until the next CPAC conference. Oh, CPAC music. Let's cue that CPAC music. Oh, we hardly knew you. While it's playing, you and I can talk about different ways to introduce some other weird shit somewhere else as we're moving forward.

9:36Here, yeah, here we go. All righty.

Interview Begins

9:59Dr. Robert Shock. My goodness. This show's been a thing for quite some time, several years. There are, I mean, we've been able to have conversations with some amazing minds, but yours is one that I have been on the hunt to make happen forever. Holy hell, thank you for carving time for us today here in California at CPAC. It means the world to us. We appreciate the hell out of you being here. So, welcome. Well, thank you. I appreciate that, and I'm glad to be here. Awesome. Awesome. So, let's jump in, man. So, in most cases, most of our guests need a lot more introduction than you do.

10:31I would say in the space of archaeology, the study of history, different potential alternative modalities of thinking, you are a luminary. You are a professor at Boston University. You're somebody who's often seen as potentially helping change minds from the inside of academia. You've dealt with a lot of different, I don't know, just insight from within academia in general.

Background

10:57But for those who aren't familiar with you, what is the main focus of your work in general, and what are you researching most these days? Okay. So, just a little background. I am a Boston University faculty member. I'm a geologist. A lot of people don't realize that because they think archaeology, ancient civilizations. But I'm actually a geologist. My PhD is geology and geophysics, and my main focus for, my primary focus, I'll put it that way, for the last 30 years has really been pushing back the origins of civilization.

11:31Not because I want to push back the origins of civilization, but because the evidence, exactly, following the evidence. And this began with John Anthony West, the late John Anthony West, who first contacted me in the late 1980s, and I went to Egypt with him in 1990. He wanted, as he called it, an open-minded geologist who could look at the Sphinx in particular, look at weathering, erosion, because he had gotten the concept from Schwoar de Lubitsch that maybe the Sphinx had its origins going back much further than dynastic Egypt.

12:07And he wanted geologists, because this was and still is a geological question, he wanted the geologists to really look at that seriously.

Sphinx Research

12:18I went with Egypt to, I went to Egypt with John Anthony West, this was summer of 1990. I was convinced before I went that there was probably all night. Spring is here, and look at you, you're still stressed. Allow me to introduce the all-new Acora Plunge Collection, designed to combine performance, durability, and elegance, and available in 15 or 19 feet. It's perfect for training, cooling off, or dramatically floating while rethinking your life choices. And remember, every spa comes loaded, covered, cover lifts, steps, chemical kit, and delivered right to your spot.

12:51You just sit, you just soak, and you forget everyone's name. Dynasty Spas, exit 49 in Athens. Online, DynastySpaStore.com. Nonsense, but I was going to get a free trip to Egypt. I've never been to Egypt before. It turns out, as soon as I got there and saw the Sphinx, I knew within minutes this was not all nonsense. That there was something amiss between the geology, with the evidence of the geology, and what the Egyptologists were saying. Within minutes, too, huh? Within minutes, yeah. Wow. Yeah, within minutes.

13:22Well, right away, I saw that the weathering and erosion on the Sphinx was not compatible with the Sahara Desert conditions that have been there for 5,000 years. You have rainfall, precipitation, very straightforward evidence of that. And I could see it immediately once I got there. And so if you've got hyper-Sahara conditions for the last 5,000 years, yet you've got this incredible fissures and rolling, what I call rolling, rounded undulation on the body of the Sphinx,

13:59and even more so on the walls of the Sphinx enclosure because the Sphinx is carved down into the bedrock of the body, there's something wrong there. The Egyptology, which says the Sphinx at the time was saying the Sphinx was 2,500 B.C., 4,500 years ago, is not compatible with the geology and what we know of northern Sahara, northern Africa-Sahara conditions. In that region where the Sahara is at the latest, I'm sorry, at the earliest, maybe 3,000, you know, latest, more or less, the Sahara is at least 5,000 years old, is what I'm trying to say.

14:45So I knew right away it had to be prior to 3,000 B.C., which is 500 years earlier than the Sphinx was supposed to be. I saw from the details of the weathering, erosion, and the amount, et cetera, I instinctively thought it had to be millennia earlier than that. So this was really throwing a monkey wrench, as they say, into the standard timeline. So that was number one. And I mean, this is within minutes. Yeah. All of those epiphanies happen.

15:15Within literally the first two minutes is the way I would say it. And the second thing is that the Sphinx, the head is too small for the body. Right. And I saw that immediately, too, because all the Egyptologists, of course, would contend that, yes, this is a dynastic head. It's how can you say the Sphinx is older? No, I knew within the first couple of minutes that that was not the original head on the Sphinx. And to me, it was very simple from the point of view of geology that there must have been a larger head on the Sphinx.

15:50It was highly weathered and eroded, just as the body was. But the body, you can see to this day, the repairs that have been made over many millennia where they took little blocks of limestone and tried to fill in parts. The head, they didn't do anything like that until the 20th century where they put cement on it. But the head, what apparently they did, and I'm absolutely convinced of this, and happened for, you know, since 1990, the head had become weathered and eroded.

16:21So they carved it down into a smaller head because you can only subtract when you're carving. You can only reduce. And that's why the head is too small for the body. When did they do that? I believe, based on the evidence, based on the style, that type of thing, early dynastic times. And so, yes, it's a dynastic head, but that's a much lighter head than the core body. So this really led me on this path of not only looking ultimately at Egypt and the evidence in Egypt for earlier civilization,

16:56before civilization is said to have existed by the traditional academics, including all my colleagues in academia at the time. But is there other evidence around the world? If you had it in Egypt, could you find it elsewhere? And that's really been the focus for the last three decades for me. Sure, and the popular opinion at the time was there's nothing else that has been discovered that dates back to that same epoch in history. And Tergo Bekley-Tepi, though, right? Enter Go Bekley-Tepi, but what you have to realize is that Go Bekley-Tepi does not enter the scene until several years after.

17:31I've been talking about older Sphinx. In the early 1990s, Go Bekley-Tepi, the genuine full-scale excavations do not start until 1995. I had already gone to Egypt in 1990, come to this conclusion, talked about publicly at conferences, Geological Society of America, for instance. Caught a lot of flack from other academics. Exactly, exactly, exactly. I persevered too, right? Yeah, so there were several years there that were literally before Go Bekley-Tepi had even, they'd begun excavations.

18:10Of course, the way archaeological excavations are, once they were excavating it beginning in about 1995, mid-90s, it's not a situation where all of a sudden they announce, oh, we've got this new site that goes back to 10,000 B.C. It took a long time for that data to come together, for them to carry out the excavations, for them to date it, for them to publish on it, for it to make it into both academia and ultimately into the public.

18:41Yeah. One thing I've always wondered is before all of that data is released to the public, Dr. Schock, did you and Klaus Schmidt have, like, had you guys been communicating? Did you guys have any contact prior to him releasing that? Was it on your radar or was it just like that? No, no, no. It actually wasn't until he was releasing and publishing on it, that type of thing. And I don't know that he knew who I was or, you know. But it must have been vindicating to some degree to have, you know, be able to spend time with Klaus Schmidt, John Anthony West, walk the site and say, all right, my work as a forensic geologist, as a geologist in general, was valid and is somewhat validated by seeing something 9,700 B.C. is really…

19:20Yeah, exactly. Oh, I would say much more than somewhat validated. I mean, absolutely validate that there was what I call earlier cycle of civilization going back to that period.

Coronal Mass Ejections

19:30Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you've done a lot of work with Graham Hancock as well, right? And so, he spends a lot of time focusing on the Younger Dryas and the Torrid Meteor Stream impacts and whatnot. And in your most recent book, Forgotten Civilization, you spend a significant amount of time talking about coronal mass ejections. Right. And so, maybe for a few members of the audience who are not ultra-familiar with that concept, maybe just like 35,000-foot view, background, coronal mass ejections, just in general, right? So, just to correct a few things, I work based on evidence, I look at evidence,

20:08and there's a lot of talk recently in the last, when I say recently, since about 2007 or so, about a comet hitting and that type of thing. I have looked at this evidence very exhaustively. I just don't think it stands up to hardcore scrutiny. And let me explain that, because there is evidence, some of it is, how do I want to say this? I was about to say fragile, questionable, that type of thing.

20:40Other evidence is not actually necessarily definitive of a comet or some other type of impactor. I was actually very interested in such things. I wrote about it, speculated about that, even before 2007. And I have nothing against comets and impactors, that type of thing. But you also, I feel, have to follow all the threads of evidence. And so, this is a controversial topic, but I've, at this point, come down that it's something— No fear of controversy here.

21:10That's right, no fear of controversy. That, actually, the evidence is pointing in a very different direction. So, and there's also an issue of timing. Sure. So, the end of the last ice age is 9700 B.C., and that's important, because the comet proponents have been proposing a comet, not at the end of the last ice age, when there was a dramatic warming. But what was happening at the end of the last ice age was it was slowly getting warmer.

21:42It was—we were actually coming out of the ice age, but we were still in it. It was still cold enough to be considered an ice age. And then, at about 10,900—some people date to 10,800, but let's just use 10,900, which I think is a better date for it, based on the evidence, and based on ice cores and sediment cores, et cetera—about 10,900, you have a sudden cold snap. And so, this ice age was starting to get a little bit warmer. Then it gets really cold again.

22:12That lasts for about 1,200 years. That 1,200-year period is known as the Younger Dryas, and it's the comet people, or the comet proponents, if I could put it that way, with no disrespect, that they suggest a comet impacted somewhere over North America or exploded over North America at about 10,900 or so B.C., initiating the Younger Dryas. And part of the thought is it would put up a dust cloud that would cause a cooling effect,

22:44et cetera, et cetera. And they pointed to what they call—what are known as certain types of nanodiamonds and carbonaceous spirules and all kinds of different evidence that we don't need to get into great detail here as evidence that some kind of comet was impacting. There's a couple of problems with this. You know, actual craters, actual meteorated material has not been definitively identified in my opinion.

23:21Things like platinum elements have been suggested in the record that's associated with the comet. There's actually other ways you can get concentrations of platinum elements. There's other ways you can get concentrations of nanodiamonds, that type of thing. Recently, a crater has been found under Greenland, known as the Hiawatha Crater, that some people say, oh, that's the crater from the comet hitting. Actually, the dating on that spans two million years.

23:51We don't know that that's actually the margin of error, the same with things like the Carolina Bays. There's a huge margin of error in it. There's actually a huge margin of error in a lot of the stratigraphy that people have been arguing about that might suggest a cometary impact. Then it gets into the extinctions. There's major extinctions toward the end of the last ice age. Most of them are actually 9700 B.C., some of the major ones, megafaunal extinctions are

24:239700 B.C., not earlier, 1,200 years earlier. So a lot has to do with the type of evidence, the chronology, whether that evidence is good or not. So to make a very long story short on this, looking at all the evidence and piecing things together, I actually think it was solar activity, anomalous solar activity. And most recently, and this is still my working hypothesis, I have no question it was incredible

24:55solar activity that snapped us out of the last ice. Spring is here, and look at you. You're still stressed. Allow me to introduce the all-new Acora Plunge Collection, designed to combine performance, durability, and elegance, and available in 15 or 19 feet. It's perfect for training, cooling off, or dramatically floating while rethinking your life choices. And remember, every spa comes loaded, covered, cover lifts, steps, chemical kit, and delivered right to your spot. You just sit, you just soak, and you forget everyone's name. Dynasty Spas, exit 49 in Athens.

25:26Online, DynastySpaStore.com. Age of 9700 B.C. was absolutely catastrophic. Comet or other bolide impactor, as they call it, meteorite, is not going to all of a sudden warm up the Earth simultaneously.

25:44And the ice core data indicates that that happened not within several years, not within one year, but a fraction of a year, as far as we can tell, literally overnight. Yeah, it's like a flip of the switch almost. A flip of the switch. So a major solar outburst, what's known as coronal mass ejection, solar proton events, electrical discharges, basically, plasma electrically charged particles, smashing down, hitting the Earth,

26:16what heat up incredibly quickly, what cause vitrification, that is melting stone and then re-congeling it right away, turning into essentially natural glass. It would cause spirals. It could actually, now we know, major electrical storms like that, we could use that term just to be descriptive, could actually cause cratering. In cases, it could flash, melt glaciers and evaporate them, essentially.

26:47Same with water bodies, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And one thing that you find is all kinds of flooding. You find evidence of incredible fires. You find evidence of the vitrification. You find evidence of earthquake activity, which correlates with solar activity. And that's been discovered recently. You're also, when you're melting, just from a pragmatic point of view, or more intuitive for some people, if you melt huge glaciers that are kilometers thick, that releases pressure,

27:23which then sets off earthquake and volcanic activity. So we have all these things happening. We have that in the geological record. I wanted to get back to flooding, flash flooding and melting of glaciers and rising of sea levels. This is all occurring at that time. And one reason is, of course, I say of course, because I'm so familiar with this. But you're melting these glaciers. You're melting bodies of water. It's literally, we can think of as huge columns of fire or plasma hitting the surface of the earth,

27:55causing incredible destruction. But you're also putting all this water into the atmosphere. It has to come back down again as precipitation. And I'm a physical geologist. I'm a geologist. I look at physical evidence. But I also do not ignore when you have worldwide traditions and mists of floods, deluges, that type of thing. So it all ties together with a solar event, a major solar event in 9700 B.C.

28:26Now it came to the beginning of the Younger Drys, 12,900 B.C. We are now finding, and this is within the last couple of years, that all the same types of markers and phenomena that in the past geologists and astrophysicists and whatnot said must be due to a comet, we're now finding that those could be due to a solar event as well. So just within the last couple of years, there's been papers published where geochemists and mineralogy experts, et cetera, have actually looked at fulgurites.

29:07What a fulgurite is is where lightning, so think of atmospheric lightning, hits the surface of the earth, hits sand or hits soil, rock, turns into glass. Turns into glass, exactly. And you start analyzing those and you get the same markers that people have been assuming had to be associated with a cometary event. So, again, there's a lot of evidence there, and I'm not saying that the evidence isn't there, but I'm saying a comet is not the only interpretation for that evidence.

29:40And I then think there is evidence, I'm convinced that there's evidence like beryllium isotopes, carbon isotopes, et cetera, that you find in sediment cores and ice cores, which you're not going to get with a cometary impact, but you will get that with a coronal flares, yeah, coronal mass ejections, solar flares, solar proton events, solar outbursts, a term that's now being used in some cases as a micronova, where the whole surface of the earth, surface of the sun sort of peels off and throws itself out.

30:16Because in some cases, a solar outburst, like a coronal mass ejection, may be direct in just one section. That's like one trajectory. Yeah, one trajectory. And if we're in the right place in our orbit, we get hit. Or I guess that would be the wrong place. That would be the wrong place. That's a bad Tuesday. Yeah, but if you throw off a sheath in all directions, it doesn't matter where we are in the orbit or other planets, they're going to be hit. And we have evidence from the moon of vitrification and solar, you know, outbursts, that type of thing.

30:49So getting back to the beginning of the Younger Dryas, I want to make this point before I forget. Do it.

30:56For a lot of people, it's totally counterintuitive as to how a solar outburst could cause a cooling spell, because it doesn't make sense to them. Oh, you know, the sun and fire and plasma hitting. But what you have at 12,900 years ago, 10,900 B.C., is a situation where you've got these huge glaciers, especially in North America. They were starting to melt. As I mentioned before, it was starting to warm up.

31:27So you had these huge glacial lakes that were bound by ice and natural ice dams and whatnot. And if all of a sudden there's a solar, anomalous solar activity that heats things up a bit, all those ice dams break, all that cold, fresh water melts. It goes into the Atlantic. And this is well-documented now. And there's evidence that this is exactly what happened. And it changed the currents in the Atlantic, the Gulf Stream, et cetera.

32:02And all of a sudden, we are so dependent, the Earth temperature budget, on the ocean currents that it actually flipped some of those and then caused a cold spell to kick in. So it's sort of counterintuitive for a lot of people until they start to think about that, yes, a bit of warming melted these ice dams, broke them apart, dumped all this fresh water, which has, you know, different properties than the saline water, messed up the ocean currents, wasn't distributing the heat.

32:34And set in a cooling spell until about 1,200 years later, we were hit by another big one, which at that point then snaps us out of the ice age. So when you talk about these ice dams that are just being destroyed, is that part of what we're seeing, like, based on the work of, like, Randall Carlson? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Scablands in Montana. Exactly. So that's why I say you've got some good data there, but it's a matter of how you interpret it and put it into context. So some people don't understand that.

33:04I'm not saying, oh, all that data is nonsense. I didn't take it from you at all. No, no, I know you're not saying that, but some people say, well, how can you ignore all this evidence? I'm not ignoring it at all. I'm saying there's a different interpretation. And an interpretation that I think is much more cogent and explains it, explains actually more of the evidence because some of it's not easily explained by a comet theory versus a solar outburst puts it all together. It's usually just Trevor that interprets it that way.

33:35Anyway, so Trevor, if you're listening, just chill, chill, chill, chill. So I know we have very limited time with you today. Yeah, and I was going to say one other thing is that we have archaeological evidence, we have petroglyph evidence, et cetera, that they were actually seeing things in the sky and they were engraving them on rocks. They were recording them. I talked about that briefly in my talk yesterday, like the Rongo Rongo text, which Katie, my wife, actually first recognized that those were plasma configurations

34:09that people like Dr. Anthony Peratt at Los Alamos National Laboratory, you know, probably the foremost plasma physicist for this type of plasma physics at a cosmic level, solar system level, that when you had these events that we're talking about at the end of the last ice age, people would see these things in the sky, sort of like the northern lights or the southern lights, but much more specific shapes. They sort of looked like dancing stick figures, that type of thing.

34:41And they recorded this in ancient times around the world. So we have numerous lines of evidence from mythology to recordings physically to the physical evidence geologically that all, to me, are saying the same story and all are compatible and come together. Wow. Yeah, that's so much. It's so intense. I love hearing this from you, from the source. And just quick shout out to Katie. I appreciate- Who's here in the studio with us? Yeah, he's here in the studio, sitting off to the side. I know that the two of you met at this conference many years ago.

35:16And for what it's worth, I really appreciate the fact that two brilliant minds were able to get together and that you've been able to influence each other and each other's work for so long. I was struck by, during your presentation yesterday, especially after the Katie may not exist comment that Marshall had on there before. You're like, she definitely exists. But the fact that you two have been spending so much time at Gobekli Tepe over the course of the last decade or two. And not only did we get to see some amazing photography of Katie's and some of the stuff that the two of you have been researching and working on,

35:51But I'm wondering, you know, as a couple or even just you, Dr. Schock, because I'm sure you guys probably think very, very similarly. What is it about, you know, and you discussed a number of different things that were very compelling about seeing the advancement of a potential civilization that either was associated with the Gobekli Tepe as a site or somehow used it. You talked about the incredible arts that were the relief carvings that were produced there, especially on, you know, famous particular stones like the Vulture Stone in Enclosure D. And also then you posit the idea that Urfa may be, as a city in Turkey, may be actually built upon the ancient ruins of another potential urban type of site.

36:32But in all of the time that you guys have spent there, what to you has been kind of the most either, I hate to use the word magic, but, you know, you know what I mean, magical thing that you've felt there or seeing all these different changes there. What has been the most inspirational aspect of your work at Gobekli Tepe?

Gobekli Tepe

36:49Aside from being able to do it with the person you love and respect, what has been the most enjoyable or inspiring aspect of your work there? Boy, that's a hard question. And the thing that actually comes to mind is that we had a wonderful, we were, on one of our trips, we were allowed to go there and be there at sunrise. And that was just magical. I mean, that was just really special. It was really just magical. It was Katie and myself and some people who are traveling with us and we got special permission to go and be on the site and experience it at sunrise,

37:26which I think was very magical and personal for us, but it also ties in with what I talked about yesterday during my presentation, that that would have been what they were doing too, looking at where the sun was among the stars on sunrise, looking on the vernal equinox out toward Orion and Taurus and the Pleiades and seeing that sunrise. And we very much experience that also. You've got the belt, the belt stars of Orion on one of the pillars, but those belt stars are not just belt stars of Orion, I think, represent.

38:05But as I said yesterday with my colleague, Manu Saifzadeh, Dr. Manu Saifzadeh, we now are convinced that, I'm absolutely convinced that they were literate. They were writing. The translations that you went into yesterday were amazing. And then as I was going into translations, so for instance, on the belt, I think it actually says God of Gods. God of Gods. And there they're looking out on the horizon, on the vernal equinox, is what they may have seen as the God of Gods actually literally rising in the sky. That's so heavy.

38:35When I was looking around during your presentation yesterday, there were so many minds that were blown by some of that translation work as well. I don't know what the going rate at the Marriott is for scooping up brains out of the carpet, but it's got to be steep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have literally all the questions for you. I've had like five years doing this show to write them all down. We don't have time for them today, so I'm going to just pick the one. Let's do pillar 43 enclosure D. Okay, along the top of that, we have the handbags that are everywhere. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

39:06I just, I have to know. What the hell are those things? No, I don't think they're handbags, and I think what people are doing is they're actually doing very loose interpretations, and they see things that look somewhat similar. Do I know ultimately what they are? Not necessarily, but what I speculate, and I talked about this yesterday, is that what we're looking at is actually solar phenomena. And what we may be seeing there is essentially, you could call it, we could call it magnetic arcing, electrical magnetic arcing that you see on the surface of the sun.

39:43They're just recording what they're seeing. And they're recording what they're seeing, especially if they were recording things that were very important to them, very impressive to them, and, you know, in times of calamity, or things that were having a very real effect on them. And when I start looking at those and look at solar arcing as we see it, I actually see, and Katie and I have been looking at this together, a very close depiction of it. If you look at what look like handbags, they're not just squares with a handle on top, they're actually that little, it's more arc on it, and there's little animals sort of in front of it.

40:21And when you look at some of the images of the sun and what solar arcing looks like, it often has that arcing look, but then it has a sort of a blob, we'll call it, in front of it, which I think they're representing as little sort of, I don't want to say nondescript, but no one even agrees as to exactly what animals they are. But they look like little animals sort of running down. Well, to me, that's indicating the movement of the arc and the connections. So I think it's a much more cogent argument than, oh, it's a handbag.

40:54It's an old Ikea from Turkey. So I know our listeners at home are wondering, okay, when you're explaining that, are you talking about just Pillar 43 specifically, or are you talking about, you know, the handbags that we see in Sumerian? No, no, no, I'm talking about this pillar specifically. Yeah, and also, you know, I'm not going to speculate about the Sumerian handbags at this point. They might be something totally different. I mean, you know, there's no need to say, oh, they're necessarily the same thing.

41:24Or could they be something that was ultimately derived from this concept? You know, many symbols have very many symbols and sort of, I know this from Egypt, you know, what should we say? The tools of authority and the pillars that, the wands that they would hold, that type of thing. They go back to much earlier period. And in fact, you know, even the people that were using them may have forgotten their very origins or original purposes or what was derived from.

42:00But I'm not going to speculate about the Sumerian ones right now. Like I said, it may be a simple situation that things look superficially alike and they've been equated. Sounds like a separate conversation. I was going to say, but they've been inappropriately equated. So that takes more research on my part at the moment. Thank you so much for it. We know you have so many things going on and we appreciate you're about to just jump on a flight. And we appreciate so much both you and Katie coming in and spending time with Lost Origins today. For real, thank you. Our hope is that as you continue to work on some of your amazing research and some of the other projects that you're spending your time on, that we can come back and potentially have a longer discussion in the future.

42:41I really look forward to that. But thank you so much for your time for us today. You're very welcome. Like I said, I have all the questions.

42:47Well, we could go on for days, I'm sure. I'm okay with it. I'm okay. I know our audience would be cool with it too. So thank you so much for carving time for us today, Dr. Schock. It means the world. You're very welcome. So, man. Robert Schock, people. Yeah, bucket list. Don't ever say we didn't do anything for you. Checkmark. Right there. Just off the bucket list. Shocking episode filled with shocking revelations. That was really immature. But I will say the coolest part of that actually happened after the interview.

43:17Go on. We were standing around just discussing with them some of the stuff they're doing next. And Robert turns to his wife and, you know, she's a pretty serious researcher in her own right, you know, does a lot of the work with him, helped write the book, like super hitter. Turned to each other and they basically both remarked that they do a lot of interviews and that you specifically were, because there's no way I didn't hit all the notes that you were

43:50hitting there, he was like, you were, you know, among the most prepared people to talk about, like, it's super clear that you live this life, that you are deep in this subject area. And it was so cool to see him acknowledge, you know, how much time you've spent really digging deep in this stuff. And I just thought that had, or at least having not discussed it with you afterwards, I assume that probably hit you like a ton of bricks, just be like, my man knows that I know this stuff. No, it was really cool. It was really humbling for sure.

44:23I've spent so much of my life reading it. I mean, cause I look at him as like one of the four horsemen, right? Like when all of this alternative like concepts really came to the front, you had John Anthony West, Graham Hancock, Robert Buval and Dr. Shock basically sparing the charge as a squad. I mean, if you read some of the older books, I believe it's Robert Buval's book, Revisiting the Great Pyramid, or I can't remember the exact title of it.

44:54I'll correct that and throw it into the media page of this episode. But if you flip through that, you leaf through it, you're going to see so many photos of the four of them just out there, boots on the ground before it's like before fingerprints of the gods had ever even been released. It was like just the years of research that went into it beforehand. Uh, but yeah, he's been a staple in, in the books I'm reading, the documentaries I'm consuming, the, all the, all the content I can get my hands on. Dr. Shock for sure. One of the North stars. Huge. And just to, you know, get into some of the stuff that, that he discussed there as well.

45:27I think just, you know, looking into pillar 43, um, enclosure D thinking about, um, just different kind of, uh, monoculture mythos, whether it's Sumerians or Mary tribesmen of New Zealand, Olmecs, whatever, you know, just the fact that we're able to see these kind of celestial images, celestial mechanics, um, images and relief carvings that specifically show some knowledge of celestial mechanics at the time. Really cool stuff. Yeah. And I love that he's not just like staying focused on that specific niche of ancient

45:59history when he, when he really starts getting into like the solar flares and, and, uh, you know, the Rapa Nui people of Easter Island. Like it's just, it's, it's all pervasive. It's global. It's everywhere. And man, to be able to just have a conversation with him face to face, such a cool experience. I cannot wait to get him back on the show and just continue to pick his brain and have that be a thing. So really appreciate him spending time with us straight up. So next week we are going to be returning to the original format of the show. Oh, uh, remember that?

46:30Yeah. There's going to be, you know, for, for some of our newer audience members, this could be, they're like, why is this interview an hour and a half? What is this? Oh my gosh. Do you guys think I have all day? Yeah, we do. Yeah. You just press pause. We'll listen to it later. Yeah. You figure it out, right? Consume it over a couple of days. Maybe you're doing it like after you spend a half hour on the great courses plus.com consuming a lecture or whatever, then you do. Great way to combine. Yeah. Great way to combine. Right. Cross-pollination is healthy. So, but next week when we return to the original format, we are going to be having a conversation

47:02with Daryl Sims. So Daryl Sims is a rad, rad individual and I'm going to try to describe him in a few words. Uh, the Texas Ranger of Alien and Extraterrestrial Investigation. Whew. Yep. Gnarly. So he had a show on, I want to say it was discovery or history called Alien Hunter. And basically because of an abduction event that happened to him very early in his life,

47:32he has been like just driven to go after extraterrestrials and really sort what's happening. Um, and man, he has seen it all. And so this guy, he runs so many different organizations. He, he's done so many different, uh, just like interviews and, and all this accumulation of data working with people all over the globe to really get a sense of the extraterrestrial phenomenon that people are experiencing on the daily throughout the globe. Whether we're talking lights in the sky, abduction events, um, you know, everything in between.

48:03And so we had the opportunity to, you know, pick his brain for about an hour. And next week you guys are going to get it to go full rip on that bad boy. Boom. Yep. Exciting. Back in action. Yep. It's going to be good stuff. So make sure that you guys smash the subscribe button, do the five-star written review thing, hit us up on social media, go to the website, scoop up some merch, patreon.com forward slash lost origins, all the things, all the prerequisites for our new listeners that are, you know, these are the things that we need to do. Just do it guys. Yeah, it's fine.

48:33And, uh, tune in next week for that conversation with Daryl Sims. Huge. Yep. So until then, I'm Andrew. I'm CK. And we challenge you to question everything.

48:54We'll see you next week.

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