Creative Survival Guide - James Martin

Catching up after two years

0:00Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard, but not the pipeline? That's bullspend, and marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. My boss asked for results, so I opened my dashboard for the only positive-sounding metric I had. Impressions. Cut the bullspend. See revenue, not just reach. LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to linkedin.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply.

0:30This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. I know you were.

1:15You were born ready, dude. James, good to have you back, dude. So happy to chat with you. Everything good? Yeah, super good. Morning for you. Evening for me. Do you know what? Look at us making it work. I just had a cheese omelette, so I'm a little bit slow. So, but it'll be great. It'll be great. My brain will start clicking in. Quick. I just had a cheese bagel. So look at us. What kind of cheese did you have? Just a little bit of cheddar?

1:46It's vegan cheddar. Yeah. Love that. Love that. Tasty. Yeah. I can't do, try it. I'm finding good ones. You know, it's tough. It's tough out here being a vegan that loves cheese. But yeah, that's the one area I divulge in the good, the real stuff every once in a while. Because it's just, it's so good. It's so good. Life's too short. I mean, life's too short. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Man, I was trying to figure it out. I think it was about two and a half years ago, three years when I had you on last.

2:16We had a lot of good stuff to talk about. And you and I got to see each other briefly a few weeks ago, which was awesome. And excited to hear. Yeah, man, look at that. Like, got to hang for a bit. And you showed me a little bit about the book. And so we'll chat about that. And I figured it was just a good time to have you back. Because, man, the one thing we share is this love for education, helping the next in line, whatever we can do, right? And I'm just curious, since that last time we talked, what do you think are the biggest differences in the industry

2:50since in the last, like, two years that are just, you would have never predicted? I mean, which I never would have predicted.

The shift in creative careers

3:01That's a very good question. Firstly, thanks for having me back. That's always nice. Absolutely. When you're invited back, it's a pleasure spending time with you. And like you mentioned, we are very aligned in the things we want to do in the world and the people we want to help. So it's always an absolute pleasure to chat with you. So, yeah, I mean, golly. I mean, a lot's changed, hasn't it? Let's be honest. Yeah. I don't think anything, look, I mean, especially let's just get the cat out the bag

3:38or whatever you want to call it, like tech, you know, AI, do you know what I mean? I don't think anybody could have predicted that. I mean, maybe two years ago because it was already on the move, but let's say three, four years ago, I don't see, I don't think people saw the drastic shift we're seeing today. Now, I think the, I mean, there's so many things, Nick, isn't there? Um, as you can tell that we haven't prepared for this conversation.

4:11So, yeah, I mean, for me, yeah, definitely. I mean, newsflash. Yeah, newsflash. But I like going off the cuff. It makes my brain work, which I think is important. So, yeah, I mean. And I love your honest opinion on it too. You know, it's like, that is, it's a loaded question. And I still like trying to sum it up is so difficult. You can obviously go right to the AI thing like we are here. But then it's like, what truly has changed for someone who is probably right out of school or self-taught or doing it by learning on online workshops or whatever it might be?

4:44How is it different for them? You know, like just three, four years ago. I'm worried. Yeah, I think there are many. I mean, let's kind of break it down to kind of internal and external. I think that's probably a good way to look at it. So, for me, like as individuals, I don't think people have necessarily changed the way they think.

5:17Do you know what I mean? So, even the people coming through the industry now, they want to be creative. They want to be designers. They want to make money out of their craft. I think they clearly have drive. I think they have a passion to want to make it succeed. I think the thing that's very different from the outset is probably because of the world that they've grown up in. Maybe their expectations, their mindset, and their opportunities are different.

5:58Do you know what I mean? Like, I think I'm going to go with positive because I think that's the kind of guy I like to be. I don't like to be one of the doomers. Because I think positively, like it's never been easier for people to get noticed, get seen, build their ideas, try different ideas. You know, the barrier to entry when it comes to your ability to, for example, like I remember how much it would have cost me 10 years ago to build a website.

6:34Do you know what I mean? Now I can just do it for nothing. Do you know what I mean? Like, there are so many things that are good about today. Now, I think the big, like tech aside, because I think the tech is definitely something that will probably naturally talk about a fair bit. But for me, I think the biggest thing is the mindset. And what I mean by that, especially for the way it's changed, you know, I think when we came into this kind of design creative career, like I always looked at this as like a forever game.

7:13Especially in the early days, I was like, oh, do I want to be a designer? Do I want to be a teacher? Do I want to be a tattoo artist? But when I decided to commit somewhat, I was like, okay, this is going to be 30 or 40 years if I'm lucky. Do you know what I mean? But I'm just going to, it will just get better. There's a process. I'll hopefully make more money, but I'm just going to keep going and going and going and going. And until we, you know, just, you know, survive, I suppose, but or thrive. I think that's probably a more positive word, isn't it? But I think, I think there's like, we grew up in a world that didn't have social media.

7:48We grew up, I grew up in a, like a very small village. Like, I've always said, it's the story of like, the ability to work in London, the capital of the UK was the ultimate dream. Do you know what I mean? Like, you'd work in your, you'd work with your mates and you'd work in your small little village. Then you'd go to your city. Then you'd go to London. And that was like, you'd made it. Do you know what I mean? But now, like, and there was no, like, you would do that through word of mouth and bits and pieces like that, referrals, and maybe a bit of marketing, a bit of networking in the morning, a bit of luck.

8:25Do you know what I mean? Um, but now, obviously, everybody is accessible, everything's very, we're in a very global network now. But the problem with that is, we all we have access to what everybody else is doing. And it doesn't matter who you are, you always feel like you're not doing enough compared to somebody else. I think that is the, you don't, you're never kind of going, Oh, I'm doing more than that person. And you're always going, Oh, I'm not doing as much as that person. And I think when you're a little bit older, you could ignore it, although it is difficult.

9:00Um, but I think as a younger person coming into the industry now, and, you know, you know, when I think about how people are building relationships, and you, you can read enough about the soft skills and the anxiety and the mental pressures of being a young, uh, you know, a young teen, 20, early 20 year old trying to go into a job market. You know, if I, if I was a designer, and I was sitting at uni, and I go on the internet, and then every single minute of the day, I'm going to be told that my job is going to be replaced by tech, you're pointless, you know, I wouldn't show up, John.

9:41I mean, it's a very difficult thing to, uh, to understand, uh, and to empathize with, with, with that, um, to some degree, because neither, not, not you or I, or anybody else can live in these people's shoes. It'd be easy to go, oh, they're lazy, and they're, do you know what I mean, not driven, but, you know, the things that they've had to endure, you know, we've talked about it, COVID, you know, um, the tech, you know, the speed of everything now, do you know what I mean?

10:12Like, I didn't have a mobile phone until I was, like, mid-teens, like 16, 17, and it wasn't, like, a smartphone, it was a brick that I had to remember everybody's number on, do you know what I mean? So, like, there's no memory. Yeah, but there was still distance, there was distance from people, there was distance from work, you had your close friend network, you went to the pub, you had a drink, you met your wife at the local village, do you know what I mean? It's a totally different world now, so, golly, like, I'm sure we'll go into the, what would we do now, that, if we had to do it something differently, but, you know, I think it's really good to build that context, isn't it?

10:52It's just so different, and, um, it's tough, it is tough for people.

The trap of chasing visibility

10:57Yeah, I had, it was interesting, because you had mentioned it, what I feel like has changed the most is this, uh, requirement to chase visibility, in addition to being a great designer, and being a good creative and good person. All that stuff, that was something that never was necessary, even, you know, 25 years ago, 20 years ago, and I just wonder that pressure, how does someone balance the, everything else, when they, the new qualification is now chasing visibility?

11:28I would, I would question that to some degree, because you don't have to do anything, do you know what I mean? I know multi-millionaires who aren't on social media, do you know what I mean? You know, I know, I know a lot of people who, um, run very successful businesses, and they're, they're not even online, do you know what I mean? So, I think the pressure to, um, to do it is often, um, maybe a bit of a trap, you know?

12:02I don't think it's, I don't think it's, you know, when you see certain people that you potentially admire doing it, and them saying that this is the only way to get work, it's probably quite an easy trap to fall into. But, I think, you know, the, the, and social media is telling you to fall into that trap. Well, exactly, yeah, I mean, every time you, you turn the thing on, like, there's some sort of influence happening, isn't there? So, yeah, look, I'm not, I'm not saying that it's, yeah, exactly, I'm not, definitely not saying that it's not, um, it's not a very, um, valuable, um, resource that people have, and an asset to people.

12:42But, I think it's, you know, I'm, I'm a big believer in, you know, you've got to be where your people are, do you know what I mean? So, uh, I, I think there's a lot of, um, um, a lot of the, not necessarily the wrong conversations, but, you know, with what happens online, and when we, you know, echo chambers, and then, like, when I think about people wanting to belong to communities, and you find your people, you get rid of the people you don't like, and you keep the people you do want to, you do like.

13:12And you'll start to think the same and stay the same. And, you know, you plateau and all the rest of it. Um, but I think I do believe that, like, I'm a big believer in, like, asking my clients and that the people who buy from me, you know, I do a lot of different things. And I do a lot of coaching. And, you know, I work with a lot of clients. And a lot of the lot of them, through my research do spend a lot of time, you know, online, searching social, you know, absorbing the content. So, for me, it's a valuable, um, ad for me to be quite active in those spaces. Um, but I've had many conversations.

13:53It's relevancy, right? Yeah, it's, it's relevancy. But it's also like, I've spoken to a lot of, um, creative people, a lot of designers who work in a particular niche. Um, they've never really asked their clients whether, like, where they hang out, what they read, where they market themselves, where they're looking for certain opportunities. And they just presume that everybody is creating content on Instagram. So they have to create content on Instagram, but their clients don't even have the app installed on their phone.

14:25So they're putting in a lot of effort into something where they're never going to be seen by the right people. So I think, um, I think it is a little bit of a trap. I think there's a lot of things we think we need to do, but we don't necessarily need to do. And I think that would be my, my argument to that. And that's something that I've definitely learned through getting a bit older and a bit fatter and a bit wiser. Although I'm actually losing weight now, to be fair. So that's maybe a bit harsh on myself there. But, um, yeah, I think it's, I think it's really, really, I mean, the pressure comes from like your, your peer group.

15:02It comes from the people you hang around with, but you know, I see so many designers asking other designers what they should do on their website and what they should do with their messaging and whether they like their logo and which one should they choose. But your best bet is to ask your clients because they're the ones who are actually going to buy from you. So it's always, um, it's such an, there's this great thing that, um, this is a bit of a slight tangent, but it's a really, really powerful thing that I, that I've learned. And through something that I've read, um, it's this thing called in the inversion principle.

15:35And it's, um, it's by, um, a chap called Charlie Munger, who is, um, like most people might know Warren Buffett, do you know what I mean? Berkshire Hathaway, like huge investor. And I, like Charlie Munger was his right hand man or is his right hand man. I'm sorry. Um, um, and, um, although I'm not too sure he's still alive. I think he might have passed away, but anyway, but he had this, um, he had this thing. And he had this thing called the inversion principle. And basically it was this, um, tool that he used or principle that he used whenever he was about to make a big investment or make a big decision.

16:14Um, and like, rather than thinking of, um, all the ways something that could go right, he would ask the opposite question, which is like, how would I make sure that this totally failed? Do you know what I mean? And what he would do is he would list all the things that would have to happen for this investment to fail or for this opportunity to fail. And then what he did is he just didn't do those things. Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard, but not the pipeline? That's bull spend and marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions.

16:47My boss asked for results. So I opened my dashboard for the only positive sounding metric. I had impressions. Cut the bull spend. See revenue. Not just reach. LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales.

17:20Using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. Plain and simple. Isn't it? Do you know what I mean? Because we tend to think of all that. He made his own rule book. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's exactly that. But like when I think about a designer, do you know what I mean?

17:51Like, let's say, for example, posting content online. I would be like, okay, what would I have to do to not market myself to the right people? Well, one of the things on my list would be, post on a platform where my clients are not.

18:12Do you know what I mean? So, do you know what I mean? So, like, these are like, I think when you flip the question, it gives you a much better perspective on maybe the things you should do and the things you shouldn't do. Because, like I said, if you do the things that would make things fail, like market in the wrong place, ask the wrong people for advice, if you just don't do those things, you've got a much better chance of succeeding in the world. But, on your point, like, the peer pressure side of it is probably the thing that's more difficult to remove yourself from.

18:47As a grumpy old man, it's easier for me to say that.

Getting noticed beyond the inbox

18:50Yeah, there's like a second side even to visibility, and I've been really looking at everyone who's one to two years out from university, still looking for the job, not confident enough to make maybe the full-on freelance thing. That visibility they've got to do is just getting a callback, right, getting someone to be interested in the resume and portfolio that they've just sent. And so, there's that even, like, other layer of visibility above and beyond what you're doing on socials, right?

19:25So, like, have you seen any good, I guess, example or someone telling a story of getting found in this wave of competitors? You might be the best one for it, but how are they getting visibility even for the callback? Yeah, that's, yeah, that's a really interesting question.

19:54And there's definitely something, there's definitely something that I feel quite passionately about with this is, because, you know, I get, you know, the LinkedIn, you know, AI, check out my, if you've got any work, if you've got this, I need some work, and I get PDFs sent to my email. Right.

20:24And it's got to the point now where I don't even look.

20:29Because... It's hard. It's not that it's hard, it's just that I know that that person isn't putting in any effort.

20:37So, what I, like, the things that I have, like, there's lots of things in here, do you know what I mean, in my space. There's also lots of things I've been sent by people, designers, like, little printed portfolios, all these wonderful things. Right, those are the best. Yeah, and those are the things I keep, and those are the people that I remember, because they went a little bit above and beyond what the normal person would do. And I think, I think there are, I think there's...

21:07You know, we have, as creative people, this creative brain, do you know what I mean? And I think, I often don't feel that we use it to its kind of best capacity, especially when we're in times of, like, you know, creativity doesn't thrive in panic, John. I mean, it very much shrinks, you know, when anxiety and panic are involved and when you need to get a job

21:43and when you've, you know, sent out, like, a few hundred, you know, resumes and heard nothing back. I'd be like, okay, yes, that's bad that maybe people aren't getting back to you, but you've got to remember that they're probably also getting sent hundreds, if not thousands, every single year. And what they might be seeing, you might be going, oh, I'm sending out a hundred a week and I'm hearing nothing back. What people are probably seeing is, like, you're clearly sending this out hundreds of times a week

22:13and I'm not putting any effort in. So, are you the kind of person I want on my team? So, like I said, we have this brain. It's a very creative brain, I'd like to think. We use it to solve particular problems, critical think, and have fun to build a little bit of a playground. You know, and if sending out your resume, for example, via email, via LinkedIn or any other job board isn't quite working, isn't getting you the visibility or the attention that you're looking for,

22:48do something different. Do you know what I mean? Why not say, do you know what? For the next three months, I'm not going to send out hundreds. I'm going to go back to my favorite 10 and I'm going to go and knock on their door. Or I'm going to go and... Send something real. Yeah. Build something. Like, what can I do? Exactly. What can I do to get their attention? Do you know what I mean? Because it doesn't even have to be your work. You could literally go and stand in front of their offices with a box of bagels,

23:23do you know what I mean? Or some donuts. Knock on the door and say, hey, I'm here. Somebody ordered donuts. Can I bring them in? Nobody's going to say no. You open it up and it's a printed portfolio. Do you know what I mean? It could be absolutely... Absolutely. Like, there's so many clever ways in which you could have fun with this kind of stuff. Because ultimately, like, this is why, again, to kind of, like, weave off this point ever so slightly. You know, when we talk about the tech and the AI and everybody's talking about going upstream

23:57and, like, being more of a strategic thinker and all this kind of stuff, which I think is right. I think execution is going to get easier and easier and easier. But, like, when I think of strategy, it's actually David Trott who says this best. And I can't, like, I can't quite remember exactly what he said. But he talked about strategy and strategists, like, their only job is to be right. So the strategy is to make sure that you're right. Do you know what I mean? But the creative's job is to make sure that it's remembered.

24:31Do you know what I mean? So a strategy that isn't remembered is bollocks. Do you know what I mean? This is why I get slightly upset when everybody says, well, creative execution is going to be, like, those jobs are going to be lost. It's all going to be about strategic thinking. And I actually don't agree with that at all. I truly believe that without good creative, the strategy is somewhat pointless. It has to be executed in the right way.

25:02And, like I said, like, the problem, like, if you think about the classic, you know, problem solution, you know, the problem is I don't have a job. Do you know what I mean? The solution is to do whatever I can to make sure I get a job. So the question I would ask people is, like, are you doing everything you can do physically to get a job? Or are you doing what is expected? Because sometimes being unreasonable and being a little bit unpredictable and a little bit

25:34unexpected is the stuff that actually catches fire. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So that's the way I would be doing it. Yeah. The above and beyond what everyone else is doing. And it's funny, like, give yourself the freedom to be creative for yourself. I think we do it so often for who we get paid by, right? But sometimes we're not thinking the same strategy for ourselves to create that little piece. That was two great examples I saw, or I can bring up to this thing.

26:08At CROP, we did the student portfolio reviews. So Matt set up, had a bunch of kids from local colleges throughout the kind of Texas area. One girl, you know, her real name is Joan Jett. But I'll never forget her. And everyone was like, no, that's her real name. Like, her parents named her after the rock star, the whole thing. And she leaned into it. So she had this incredible logo of Joan Jett kind of in this rock star thing. If it was me doing that, it would look cheesy, right?

26:39But she got to do this because of her name and the instant recognition to an 80s, you know, rock star. So anyways, she made a beautiful little, just slightly bit about, you know, twice as big as a business card, tiny little stapled mini portfolio. And that thing got the rounds. It got passed around to every professional. And they were going, that's how you stand out. That's how you leave a mark. She had an opportunity. She knew she was going to be 20 pretty connected, you know, designers in that industry.

27:12And what a, what a value I brought that into my class the other day to show the other students because they're in that zone right now of graduating and everything. And they looked at it. It was like, like it was the most foreign thing they've ever seen, you know, and like paper, like real. So pushing back to maybe, like you said, with all the tech, use the tech to get you an idea and help you, but go analog with the, with the deliverable. And that stands out. No one's getting physical things any longer for these job things.

27:44So make that a point.

Nostalgia and standing out

27:46And the second one is our buddy, Dan. He gets from Lincoln. He gets so many things when he puts out the job rec for you guys. Right. And what stands out to him is the person that takes the time and puts together the ultimate mailed in like physical portfolio. Wow. Come on. Like, there's your, if you, and like you said, you don't do it to all hundred. You do it to the four to five that are drop dead, the best opportunities that you would

28:17want to go for. Yeah. I think, um, like I, you know, I think I like to think of it as well. Like the, um, there's a big reason that all of these like, uh, arcade games and toys and stuff from like the eighties are now worth so much money is because all of us who couldn't afford them as kids can now afford them as adults. Do you know what I mean? So we have that. I need an asteroid. I need an Asteroids machine, right? Yeah. So the thing is like, there is that nostalgic, um, um, and I'm going somewhere with this.

28:52Um, there is that kind of sense of like, you know, I always, I grew up in, you know, um, a tattoo studios and I, I couldn't necessarily afford any artwork when I was growing up. And I always had this dream of like, when I'm older, I want to build an office that looks like a tattoo studio that's full of stuff. Do you know what I mean? And I, and I've got it like, and this is what I spend my money on. So when I think about the portfolio, the, the, how to get people's attention, you know, the people that are running these studios now on the whole are the 40 to 60 year olds.

29:33Do you know what I mean? And like, what, what did they love when they were your age? Do you know what I mean? Going back to the eighties and like, what was cool? What did people do? Like what will trigger a meaningful moment and a memory in them that they'll look at and go like, oh God, yeah, those were the days. Like, and there is things like, it is the printed books. It is the magazines. It's the zines. It's all of these things. But there are also like multiple other ways in which you can, um, like express yourself and

30:05do the work and to get noticed. But I think that's a really, um, I actually think it's a very, you know, it's one of those things that when you start the inversion principle, like when you hear, oh, all I had to do was like create a cool piece of print and send it to them in the post and they would give me an interview or at least give me, you know, an answer. You'd be like, oh my God, that was so easy. But what I was doing was I was following all these trends on the internet.

30:38I was sending out hundreds of emails. I was like getting like all of this anxiety because nobody was getting back to me and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Do you know what I mean? Now, I'm not sitting here saying that that is not effort well spent. Like I'm never going to belittle because I can't live a day in anybody else's shoes apart from mine. But I, if I was, if I was knowing what I know, if I was somebody who was breaking into the industry right now, I would be like all the ideas in my head, you know, I would be

31:11kind of trying to build, if not build, at least half build. And I would have this portfolio of all of these crappy, half-formed, crazy ideas that were just so impossible, so big. But they allowed me to kind of flex my brain to some degree because people who are going to hire you are definitely looking to, you know, I mean, I do enough research to understand

31:44that, you know, the portfolio is, yes, it's a great way to get you in the door, but that's also just a very small percentage of the thing. Like you've still got to be able to nail the interview, you know, you're still going to be able to come across as somebody who is like can work as a team, you know, has this ability to critical think, has this ability to be agile and adaptable and, you know, probably has different, you know, a different take on different things, probably has a bit of a point

32:14of view. Like, so as much as we are kind of going around the houses here a little bit and like talk about how important this portfolio is to be visible, like, I think it's also, I would also, to some degree, like if there was like two printed portfolios, for example, one was absolutely crackerjack and one was like good, do you know what I mean? But the person who was good, looked me in the eye, smiled, talked to me, was funny, you know, I could see them being involved in my team.

32:46And this other person who had the bagging portfolio was a bit of a mumbler, didn't look me in the eye, didn't shake my hand, kind of just like didn't seem that interested. I'd be choosing the human all day. So I think the work is, again, it's very, very important. It's the thing that will definitely get you in the door, but like you as a human, the things that excite you, your passions and your drive and your humor and your weirdness

33:17are the things that will actually probably get you employed. Because that's why so many people with great work don't have work. Because I think they struggle with that kind of softer skill communication thing. Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard, but not the pipeline? That's bullspend. And marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. My boss asked for results. So I opened my dashboard for the only positive sounding metric I had.

33:47Impressions. Cut the bullspend. See revenue, not just reach. LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to linkedin.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across

34:21the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. That's a tough one. Yeah, it's tough. And trying to crush that with a lot of the young students we get is really tough. I know giving them something that, you know, when we met, what was it last year and went out to breakfast and I brought a bunch of my current grads, you gave them a really good like project, but it was more of a challenge and I've seen it help them.

34:55You told them the story of you walk in and you're going to have the portfolio that everyone's expecting you to have, right? Yeah. But what if you come in with this? But I've got this other little project that's all me, not from a teacher, not from a brief. Do you want to see it? And like the way you presented that, they all, you know, I made, well, then I made that a project in that class. So they all had to do it because they needed the grade. But they made something so personal, a little bit more analog, a little bit more quirky.

35:25But you know what that did, James? It gave them the confidence they needed. When they presented that, they presented it so much better than anything else we had done in the past because it's theirs. It was their personal stamp. So whatever you're making as that part B, you know, there's you and then your portfolio, right? But part B is that secondary thing that you were like kind of spearheading there that gives you the confidence to speak better because it's right from the heart, you know?

35:56And if you're looking for that passion project to do, there's your, there's your brief brand something you're passionate about and make it a, make it a, a unique project.

Building the second portfolio

36:06Yeah.

Building the second portfolio

36:07I don't even think it needs to be a complete project. Do you know what I mean? I think we've kind of, you're right. We've coined it as almost like it's actually a, a thing that me and my buddy. What does that mean? Right. It could be anything. Yeah. It's kind of cool. We call it the second portfolio. Do you know what I mean? So it's this, it's this, it's this, it's this thing that is full of all of your crazy ideas. And like I said, they don't have to be finished or fully fleshed out. Um, but those are the things that I believe people are more interested in because they're

36:43like, okay, without any rules, without any boundaries, without any client feedback, this person has the ability to think like this, do you know what I mean? So when I bring them into my studio. Shows everything. Yeah, exactly. Like, and then, like I said, it doesn't have to be fully formed or fully worked out or like a totally complete idea. But in that second portfolio, um, you do have the ability to, um, like, like, like a big

37:17thing is I talk about a lot, like a playground, like fun. Like, I think a lot of creative people have, I do struggle to have fun, you know, the doom and gloom that I need to show up on Instagram all the time and post on YouTube and grow my audience. And those things don't fuel me. Do you know what I mean? And like, clients are annoying me. I can't, I'm not getting any job interviews. It's like, it's not fun, is it? Do you know what I mean? It's not, it's not like a fun world. So to like, to find ways in which you can have fun and explore, um, push your creativity

37:53on your own projects. And this is again, like going back to what I truly believe and the things I talk about in the book as well, which is this idea of, you know, you can use your creativity for yourself as well as your clients. And that is what a big drive in the book is all about because like, I, like I think about, I could only ever speak from my own point of view and the things that I've experienced because I would never try and do it any other way. But I believe the opportunities that have happened in my life have come from my ability.

38:30And hey, like I am not perfect and I still fuck a lot of shit up and I am not finished by any, by any means. But there is this, I have this, um, um, drive to complete and action my own things, my own ideas, my own, um, brands, businesses outside of client work. And that becomes a playground for me to actually fuels client work and vice versa. The client work fuels my ideas over here. So I, I truly believe that in this world that we're going into, I, I would 100% urge, um,

39:09creative people, um, to push their entrepreneurial spirit, their creativity. Because when I think about being employable and being entrepreneurial, they're actually like very, very similar things. Like people segregate them, but they're actually very, very similar. Like when I think of like, um, you know, the things that you want to, things that make you employable, you know, teamwork, problem solving, you know, adaptability, you know, bit of a risk taker.

39:39You know, if I see these things in the people that are trying to- Self-starter. Yeah, exactly. Like, and I think like, if I look at that, but call it an entrepreneur, it's the same thing. Do you know what I mean? So why? But like, also when I think of employable, I don't necessarily just think about like getting a job and working for the man or working for the woman or working for the corporation or whatever it is. I think about it as like the way I partner with Canva, the way I partner with Lincoln, the way I partner with Affinity, the way that people want to, they want me in their world.

40:14That's them employing me to some degree in a partnership to come and think of ideas and to build things with them and push ideas in other aspects. So I think like people think employable is essentially this kind of one narrow, like, oh, I get a job and then I work a nine to five and I'm miserable. But being employable, having the traits of somebody employable is actually very similar to the traits of being entrepreneurial, I personally believe. But then again, I do speak a lot.

40:45Well, you just, yeah, you just even answered the first question about visibility, the things that you've structured and created as the pillars for you are visible and seen and understood. And you can't get to those levels without all of those qualities, right? So that's why someone will attach to you because they've seen it. The proof is there and you do it in a very organic way. It's not, here's my handbook of what, who I am. It's just your passion and what you do for the industry, I think is the, is the best.

41:17That's the, that's the stuff. That's like an instant spotlight. And it's, I think it's proof. You know what I mean? And, and that's what, and you nailed it. It's the same exact thing, an entrepreneurial to a hireable person. You can look at the similarities and I don't think anyone's really spelled it out as clear as that, you know, I think like I'm, you know, people's branding mentor is what I'm kind of like playing around with right now, which I'm quite enjoying because, you know, I'm all about the people and I love mentoring people, but you know, it's this idea of a brand essentially.

41:51Like I think the word brand has been somewhat stolen and hijacked and probably misused. It's like the way we always say we love each other. Do you know what I mean? Love you, bro. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, love you. I love you. Like we just, it's just misused. I think due to social media, it's become a shortcut for a lot of things, but like, I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't think anybody's right or wrong. I just think it's like maybe lost, maybe just, yeah, it's just lost a little bit of

42:23its kind of identity brand a little bit. Do you know what I mean?

Defining a recognizable reputation

42:27I think it gets confused. I don't think you have a brand just because you designed one. Do you know what I mean? I think it's something that's earned over a long time and, you know, it's quite easy. Or do you remember when brand was only used by anyone in marketing or design? Now it is, you know, oh, I'm a lawyer and I need a personal brand or I'm this. Yeah, I mean, exactly. Don't get me started on personal branding. The word has expanded. The definition stays the same, but like that word and the amount of people using it, because it's such a buzzword, it sounds good. Particularly the no bullshit branding is the one I wanted to talk about.

43:00Oh, that's a good one. But that's like... I was waiting. That segue was there. It was there. I set you up for it as well. It's great, wasn't it? Of course you did. You're a pro. Yeah, so, but it's like for me, when I talk about like, like removing some of that, you know, you only have to spend a little bit of time on LinkedIn and read a few people's bios and you're like, I don't, I'm even in this world and I don't even know what you do. Do you know what I mean? Like, like just tell people what it is.

43:32So when I talk about like, no bullshit, for me, it's just about, you know, I don't call anything out to any real degree. What I kind of break, I kind of like, I'll kind of break the book down into chapters and like the section one is kind of like how branding lost its way. And I talk about the history and, you know, some of the mindset issues and the complexity and the democracy are like how all of these things have, I believe, um, cultivated, you know, branding as being maybe slightly lost and helped it kind of go off track to some

44:07people in some ways. And then, um, then I kind of tried to break it back into like what I believe it is. And what I believe a brand is, and I speak to my friend, Kevin Finn about, about this. And that's very, I think that's very, very important to, um, to just very quickly say is that everything I know, I have learned from other people, do you know what I mean? Yes. I've brought my own spin and tweak and, you know, play on certain things, but like this proves like that everything that I know has been from the books that I've read, from the,

44:42um, the culture I've absorbed to the movies I've watched, the people I've had conversations with, to the people that mentor me, the people that I follow, like everything I know is from everything that I've absorbed. So my point there is like absorb more things because then you have more things to draw from. Do you know what I mean? I think Steve Jobs talked about it. You have to live a life. Yeah. As I, but it's like having more dots to connect. He talks about it. Like if you're just reading, if you just really design books, you're going to have a certain

45:12like perspective. If you're reading lots of different things from different cultures all around the world and different subjects and different industries, you're going to have a lot of different things to pluck from. So, and that's how creativity happens when you can connect those dots in slightly different ways. I think that's what Steve Jobs said. But it's a lost art. Yeah. Yeah. And essentially for me, even before digital, you know, even before digital and screen, it now it's even gotten so much worse that people aren't even getting out enough, let alone what they do when they're out.

45:42And you're right. All those little nuggets make up who you are and what your response will be to giving someone advice or getting advice or whatever it might be. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. Yeah. That for me, like when I talk about branding, so like me and my friend, Kevin Finn talk about this as like a brand as a, as is a recognizable reputation. And the reason I like brand being a recognizable reputation is because it, it makes it a little

46:12easier for me and for me to explain to my clients. It makes it easier to have that conversation. When I have a conversation with somebody who knows brand building and the branding process, like we could have slightly different, um, ideas of what that is and, and maybe not quite understand each other still, do you know what I mean? But when I talk to my client and I talk to them about branding, like there's such a big gap there and they, they focus on the visuals and they focus on, you know, the stuff that

46:43they see and they think that's a brand a lot of the time that you have to educate them to some degree. So the reason I like this idea of, um, you know, recognizable reputation is because, you know, it's slightly easier to manage and it's slightly easier to, to articulate and communicate to, to people, especially my clients. And when I talk to my clients in that kind of way as about like, what we're trying to do is we're trying to build your reputation and to build your reputation, we have to do

47:17a certain amount of things consistently. So we become known for it, do you know what I mean? So, um, whereas if you're talking about the brand C and the kind of sizzle and like archetypes and all this stuff, like, golly, I mean, I, even I get bored of that stuff. So, um, yeah, like not that there's anything wrong with it, but it's just not, it's just not for me. Um, so yeah, I think this kind of recognizable reputation is such a great thing because it's something that they can relate to and it's something that you can communicate them like with great ease.

47:48So you can say to them, like, do you have like a certain mate that you'd always go out to the pub with, for example? And they would go, yeah. And I could go, well, what is it about them? Do you know what I mean? That you'd like, it's like, well, they, they're always fun. They're a good laugh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I go, okay, well, would you take that same, would you choose that same friend to pick you up from the airport at three o'clock in the morning? And they would go, no, because they're always late and they're always, you know, hung over.

48:21Do you know what I mean? So that we all have friends who we choose for certain situations. Do you know what I mean? And that's how a reputation works because they're always good fun at the pub or they're always able to pick us up in the morning because they don't drink. There's certain people and certain brands, reputations that you would choose in certain different environments. And I think it's, I think there are ways in which you can, I think I've got this thing called the reputation grid, which is like, obviously, you know, a grid, do you know what

48:53I mean? It's like made up of four things, isn't it? Quadrant, do you know what I mean? Quadrants. Yeah. And in those quadrants, I think there's, I think there's like four things. And I think if I just want to kind of leave or just kind of give people something to think about when it comes to reputation and brand or branding and recognizable reputation, I think, you know, think about this reputation grid. And within each quadrant, there are different words. And in the, so we got top right, we have competence.

49:30Ooh, okay. Okay. Ooh. We said, ooh. Like that. I like that. No, because I've seen so many of these grids that I was curious about what your four quadrants were, because you're, this is all zeroing in on reputation, right? Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard, but not the pipeline? That's bull spend. And marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. My boss asked for results. So I opened my dashboard for the only positive sounding metric I had.

50:00Impressions. Cut the bull spend. See revenue, not just reach. LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to linkedin.com slash campaign. Terms, the conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across

50:33the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify.

The four pillars of reputation

50:44Yeah, 100%. So I think this is the way to kind of nurture and build a recognisable reputation. Also, like to, or more so to kind of essentially manage it. Okay. And I think that, like I said, I think there are four things that we need to focus on as individuals, like whether you want to build a brand as a human, or you want to build a brand as a company or a business. Like if we focus on these four things.

51:15So top right hand corner, we have competence. All right. And that, and what I mean by that, that's essentially the competence, not just of your craft, but also you know, you know, you know, are you competent at the things you do? Are the competence, you know, the way you show up? Are you reliable? You know, there's so many ways in which you can be competent, but it's essentially, can people rely on you to do what you say you'll do? Do you know what I mean?

51:45But that is everything outside of the craft as well. Okay. So then in the top left, we have integrity. You can tell I'm dyslexic because I started top right.

51:58He's like bing bong, bing bong, all over the place. All right. So integrity for me is essentially, do your actions match your like values, like, and your words, like, um, do you show up as the person you say you are, um, like, it doesn't matter where you are, um, uh, and in whatever situation, like whether it's like, as I said, like a coffee with a client or at a design conference or online, like, are you consistently showing

52:33like, um, you know, and being very consistent with your, with your words and your values. So integrity is a very, very important one. Now, where should I go? Where does my dyslexic brain want to go? Let's go to bottom, bottom, right? Yes. Good. Yes. And I'm going to, that's, that's narrative. Um, and narrative is how, um, your story is told and how believable it feels to others. So it's very aligned with integrity, but people need to be able to talk about you and share

53:07your story, um, very consistently and you need to be able to do the same, which is why, again, it's very important to be, um, remind me to talk to you about the deeds model before we leave. Cause that's, that's very good as well. Um, I say very good. That's what I love about these already is even though this is in a quadrant or your grid, I'm feeling, I'm seeing the circle and the unity of all these words. They have to, you can't have one without the other. No, you need to be working on all four.

53:38Uh, and then the final one is community. What's the final community. And what I mean by community, um, although it's such a buzzy word right now, it's essentially, um, it's much better than audience though, but cause community is very different. It's like almost like this kind of horizontal playing field where we're all kind of helping each other rather than like an audience. I think it's almost like somebody at the top's got this megaphone and talking to everybody else, John. I mean, whereas a community is like all for everybody.

54:10So when I think of community is essentially thinking about like who was in your corner, helping you share your story essentially. So those can be that the people that, um, follow you on Instagram or YouTube, your subscribers, but they can also be your clients. They can also be your friends. They can basically be all the people that are essentially saying your name when you're not in the room. Do you know what I mean? So that is what I think of a community, um, kind of aspect.

54:40So integrity, competence, narrative, and community. And if you are consistent in all four of those areas over a long enough time, and you're working on them all and proving them all and evidencing them all, um, you will essentially build a trustworthy brand because the reason that we try to build a, well, I should say trustworthy business that we hope is one day a brand, but let's just for short, for short cut sake,

55:13just call it a trustworthy brand. The reason we try to build a trustworthy brand is because we are trying to remove friction because when we remove friction, it makes it, it makes it easier for people to say yes to us. Do you know what I mean? We become what I would classify as a, I suppose, a safer commercial choice for people. Do you know what I mean? It's easier for them to give us money because whether we like it or not, and whether the internet would agree with me or not, there's only one reason why we try to build a brand

55:45and a brand is essentially a manufactured thing. And it's one role and it's one job is to make money. Do you know what I mean? That's its job. Yeah, plain and simple. So, um, which is why you can't have an authentic brand because you can't be truly authentic when your agenda is to make money because you leave stuff out and include more of the stuff that you think will help you sell. Do you know what I mean? So, you know. Oh, those stand out like crazy now. A lot of these brands that are like either greenwashing or trying to look community driven

56:18or all from the heart, they still got to make money, you know, and it's hard, you know, when they push too, when they push too far with it. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that. We all need to make a wage and we all need to, we all need to find our way in the world. But, you know, I think it's really, really like, this is why, like I said, we probably don't want to get onto this too deeply. But when I hear like authentic personal branding, like it's a massive contradiction. Like if you individually, those words should never be in the same sentence because there's

56:51just so many things wrong with that. Um, um, but I've been told off too many times on the internet to, to warrant any more time with that. But like, for me, it basically means people don't know what authentic means or they don't know what brand is. And that is, that should be a worry for people. So, um, but I mentioned the deeds model.

The deeds framework for success

57:14Yeah. What's that? It's lovely. It is what it is. So, uh, so I talked about, I talked about, and this is another kind of cool. Little thing, um, that is, um, something that I'm very excited about, which is, um, you know, your deeds, so it's all aligns with reputation. So your deeds dictate your reputation. Do you know what I mean? So that's a, that's a nice thing to remember. And it's, it's stuff that we're taught when we were kids. Do you know what I mean? So when I think of deeds, D E E D S, your deeds dictate your reputation.

57:48Yes. So these, the first D of deeds is decide what you want to be known for. Okay. So, okay. So see this as like, um, like an operating system, I suppose, or a framework for building a reputation. So to build a reputation, you have to build your deeds. Okay. So the D is you have to decide what you want to be known for. Now that will, you know, some people might say, well, I don't really know what I want

58:21to be known for, but like just knowing that you want to be a creative or knowing you want to be a designer is enough because even still today, I'm continuously evolving what it is I want to be known for. But do you know what I mean? Still don't know. It's still there. Do you know what I mean? It's like this. You've got to have some sort of idea. So decide what you want to be known for. All right. I love that. Do you want me to finish? Should I finish? Do you want to go? Are you going to say something? I saw you. No, I want, I keep flowing. I'm, I'm, I'm dying to know what the first E is.

58:52I'm going to say, let's see, decide. It's probably like execute. You're wrong, Nick. Um, so, uh, thank you for your honor. Thank you for your honesty. So am I in the zone? Not at all, mate. Well, you kind of, yeah. So, yeah. So these are sequential as well. This is it, which will probably help. So first D, decide what you want to be known for. Okay. The first E, educate yourself in alignment to becoming that person.

59:25So you decide that you want to be known for this. I love that. Firstly, you've got, so the first D is educate yourself in alignment. So what can you do, absorb, read, watch, um, educate yourself on that helps you become that person that you've decided you want to be known for. Okay. So the second E is evidence the process of that. Do you know what I mean? So you've educated yourself, um, on the thing you want to be known for. And now what you need to do is build evidence that you are that person and that you know

59:59that you know what you're talking about. Okay. So you have to evidence the process and that could be like, you know, building little pieces of IP. It could be like sharing like case studies. Testimonials. Exactly. Testimonials, gathering all of this evidence that you can do the things that you have decided that you want to be known for. All right. So then, all right, the most important, interesting thing about evidence is that we all have evidence,

1:00:30but not everybody has access to all the evidence. So for example, Nick, you have probably done a billion projects with a billion different humans. And it's impossible for me to access all of the evidence you have because it's just impossible. Do you know what I mean? It's just impossible. So that's a, that's what stops a lot of people. Yeah, exactly. So what you need to do is you need to demonstrate the proof. Do you know what I mean? Because evidence and proof are very different.

1:01:01Evidence is all the stuff you've done. Proof is what you show. Proof is you showing the evidence. Do you know what I mean? Because I think of like, which helps perception. Okay. So let's think of a bridge. Okay. So you've got evidence on one side of the, of the canyon and you've got perception on the other side of the canyon. The thing that joins them, the bridge that joins them is proof. Okay. Because there is no perception without any evidence. You need, you need the proof.

1:01:32All right. So demonstrate the proof. And you do that by your marketing, your advertising or whatever it is. Do you know what I mean? So you're going to demonstrate the proof of the evidence. And then I'll see if you can guess the final S. The S. All right. So we've got decide, educate, evidence, demonstrate.

1:01:55Gosh, S.

1:01:59Do you want me to put you out of your misery? That's a good one, dude. Go. It's all you. Stay in the game long enough for it to compound.

1:02:09Ooh. It has to. It has to. That, that puts the final, that's the period at the end of this. Yeah. You, you need deets with a period. Yeah. So decide what you want to be known for. Love that. Educate yourself to become in alignment with that person. Evidence the journey. Evidence the process. Demonstrate the proof. And then stay in the game long enough for it to compound. And the final S is the key. Because if you do the D, the E, the E, and the D for a year and then give up, pointless.

1:02:45You didn't give it enough time. Yeah. You didn't give it enough. You didn't stay in the game long enough for it all to compound. Like the people that are listening to this, the people that you look up to, you know, all of these fantastic designers that you look up to. They have been doing this for 20, 10, maybe, 30, 40 years. They've stayed in the game long enough for their evidence to build up.

1:03:16They decided that they want to be known for. They stayed in the game long enough. They prove it. They demonstrate it. And they continuously educate themselves on getting better and better and better. Do you know what I mean? They're on the road to mastery knowing that they'll never quite get there. But that's the whole point. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, and I'm glad you highlight with that because I think a lot of people want the instant gratification on things so quickly now. They think two posts is going to get them somewhere. And here you are saying, no, I'm showing you someone's career is already done.

1:03:50They've packaged it into the D, the E, the E, and the D. But now the S is saying stick with it. Be there for a while because it has to compound that way. It's the E, like, and the thing, I always like to kind of think about, like, this kind of thing is conversations. Do you know what I mean? So I started, like, a conversation with my wife, like, 25 years ago. Do you know what I mean? We, I met her, we had a conversation.

1:04:20And today we are married and we have a beautiful son together. 25 years. But that, this moment today would never have happened if I didn't start a conversation with her 25 years ago. I stayed in the game long enough. Do you know what I mean? Like, and the same with, like, Lincoln Design Co. Do you know what I mean? Like, I first reached out to Dan 10 years ago and we started with one conversation, one like on Instagram or whatever it was.

1:04:53And then over time we became buddies. Our friendship grew. We did more things together to the point now where I am a proud partner in that company. Do you know what I mean? So this ability to stay in the game, to have conversations, to commit, do you know what I mean, to something for a long enough period is power. And I don't think, it doesn't matter what tech is around.

1:05:23It doesn't matter how quickly other things move. You know, relationships.

1:05:30These things take time. Like, getting good at anything takes time. Do you know what I mean? Like, you know, you cannot shortcut mastery. You cannot shortcut getting better at your craft. You cannot shortcut all the things that matter in the world. They cannot be shortcutted. I don't personally believe. Yeah. And the people that. That's tough. Understand that, I believe, will be the people that win. Because I, let's say the world does go the way that everybody's saying it might go.

1:06:03I reckon there'll be a point in time where all of these businesses will start hiring the best humans because they need to add more human into their business. And who are they going to hire? The people that are continuously learnt, mastered, you know, being human and being, building relationships and building recognizable reputations based on their integrity, their competence, their narrative and their community. You know, their deeds.

1:06:35I love those, dude. It's great. And it even makes me think. I'm like, I'm sitting here going, my patience nowadays to tell a young designer that they've got to commit. It's the right advice. I just know that they're, they want things so quickly and so fast because all they see is the overnight successes in social media and all this other stuff. But those are the best words to kind of give them at that time because it's like, commit to that and you'll see the future kind of lay in front of you.

1:07:07You know what I mean? It really will. Yeah. And it might not be saying like, I'm going to narrow into this one particular area. What you decide on just might be an amazing career in the creative industry. That's all you need to do. You don't have to say, I'm going to be the number one hand lettering person in all of LA. Like, you know, because that, that's like, I think it's unfair to ask someone young to pick the, to predict the thing they want to be in 15, 20 years. Just commit to that and then build your reputation, build all the good stuff that everyone will admire and stick with it.

1:07:42Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard, but not the pipeline? That's bull spend and marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. My boss asked for results. So I opened my dashboard for the only positive sounding metric. I had impressions cut the bull spend. See revenue, not just reach LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com slash campaign. Terms, the conditions apply.

1:08:12This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify.

1:08:43Exactly that. Yeah. It's like, like I said, I am still the decide what you want to be known for will evolve with you as a human. Do you know what I mean? It's a never ending thing. And that's the, like, that's the beauty of it. I'm a big believer in focusing on the process, not the outcome. Do you know what I mean? Because I know if I focus on the process, the things that are meant to happen to me will happen. And I am a prime example of somebody who is pretty average at a lot of things,

1:09:16but does them with great consistency, who now has a lot of opportunity. Do you know what I mean? And it's purely through staying in the game long enough, being very true to myself, my voice, the way I present myself. I would like to think, and you can be testament for this, that I am the same on this podcast as I am on real life, as I am online, that I am in email, that I am on text. You've seen me in enough different situations now to know that, like, I am what I say I am.

1:09:48Do you know what I mean? I'm not, like, there isn't an online version of James and a speaky James and then a workshop James. They're all the same James. Do you know what I mean? And I have proof. I have proof I have evidence. Yeah, you do. Yes. You should demonstrate it and stay in the game long enough. Do you know what I mean? I've seen it. I've seen it, dude. But yeah, it's, yeah. Sorry, you guys. That's, dude, okay, so here's my segue.

Details on the new book

1:10:11Give us the deets with a T on the book. When's it out? How can they get it? I'll have the link and everything, but when's it out? Lovely. Well, it's, when does this podcast drop, Nick? Probably on this Sunday. Okay, great. So, the end of this week. It's on pre-order at the moment, and it's the pre-order up until the, obviously, so the book launches September 10th in the US, and then in Europe around the same time,

1:10:41so September 10th. But it's on pre-order now. But if you do pre-order in May, you get access to a book club. So, when the book drops, we're all going to be in a community, and we're all going to read it together. You get my free MVB course, which is the Minimum Viable Brand, which is where I help you take your own ideas and take them into the world. You get the chance to win some very exclusive MBJ merch, and you also get a load of digital downloads. Do you know what I mean? So, for a 40-buck book, there's a lot, but that's only in May.

1:11:16And then, you know, there's some other stuff, but the big hit now is in May. So, yeah, I would love everybody's support. You know, I don't write books for myself, although, do you know what I mean? You know, there's a lot of knowledge in there. There is a little bit of it, which is just for me, because like I said, like the process of now, like two years ago, I had this idea for another book. I started writing it, and then now it's done. Do you know what I mean? But the amount of effort and time that's gone into it is pretty crazy.

1:11:47And I've had a lot of help from my friends. I can tell, dude. I can tell. I'm so excited, dude. I think that what you shared, if that's any indication of kind of like the nuggets that they'll get from it, I think it's going to be a huge success. And I'm so happy for you again. I'm proud of you, dude, for doing it. It's awesome. Appreciate you, brother. Thank you. I want to end on rapid fire, because I need one word answers.

Rapid fire questions

1:12:08Rapid fire. From James Martin. I need this. All right. Are you ready? Yeah. How rapid does it need to be? What's one thing every creative? Sorry. Well, speed, you could think, but one or two words. One or two word answers. Are you ready? Okay. What's one thing every creative should start doing this year?

1:12:27Build a recognizable reputation. Yes. Good deal. What's the best investment a designer can make in themselves right now, other than that last answer?

1:12:39Reading books on things and behaviors they struggle with. I love that. What builds confidence faster than anything else? Speaking to other humans. Is there a mistake that you are grateful that you made? Doing too many drugs as a kid and being kicked out of home and school at 17. Yeah. Gotcha. What's more important today? Talent, consistency, or clarity?

1:13:09Consistency. Good. Lastly, what do you hope your legacy in design education becomes? My mission is to help human creativity shape the world, and I have a three-step plan for that. And three steps are earn one of the most trusted reputations within the creative industry. Number two, build extraordinary opportunity for others.

1:13:41Number three, create real-world impact. If I do half or all of those things, I'll be a happy man. Nice. I have no doubt you will, dude. I love it. That's great, dude. You're such a good inspiration, dude. I love chatting with you, always, for sure. I can't wait for us to make that collaboration together one day in the educational world. Whatever that becomes, it'd be an honor. Because I love what you're doing for everybody, and the positivity, but the truth bombs as well.

1:14:17You know, got to be both. Hey, I think this isn't, especially in the world that we are in, where it is about helping the people to do the things that we want to do or are doing. But also, more so, the grassroots, the juniors coming through, you know, I think that is where more people should collaborate. So, rather than just us saying we should, why don't we just do? All right? I'm going to commit.

1:14:48Yeah, exactly. Decide what you want, Nick. Decide what you want. I love it. Yeah.

1:14:56Son of a bitch. Yeah. That's great, isn't it? That's the perfect one. Yeah. I love it, dude. All right. Well, dude, I'll have all the stuff down below for the book so people get on it. What a great offer and a great deal. And you're a great dude, bro. Always good to chat with you, man. I appreciate you. I will leave. Are we staying on? Are we chatting or are you going? What's going on?

1:15:17You and I will stay on for a bit. Yeah. Thanks, everybody. Bye. There you go. Bye. Bye. Thanks again. Cheers. If this conversation helped you think a little longer term about your creative career, hit like and subscribe. It helps more than you think. And if you know a creative who's trying to figure out their next move, share this with them. That's how we get this community to grow. Every act of change begins with a neighbor. When neighbors connect through the Feeding America network, small actions ripple into lasting impact.

1:15:52Feeding America, led by neighbors. Give now to end hunger at FeedingAmerica.org. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans.

1:16:28Thanks.