Trump is demanding English — while defunding ESL

Adults learning English

0:00What's good, y'all? You are listening to Code Switch, the show about race and identity from NPR. I'm Gene Demby, and today one of our producers is on the mic. You hear his name all the time in the credits every week. Xavier Lopez is on this side of the mic. What's good with you, X? Hey, Gene. I'm happy to be back. All right, bro. What do you have for us today? Well, Gene, I'm here today because I want to talk to you about language learning, learning, specifically adults learning English. Oh, boy. Okay, yes. As you well know, or maybe

0:32don't, learning a new language as an adult can be super difficult. I mean, all I got to point at is Duolingo, but yes, I know that even your brain, like the way your brain's architecture works just changes after a certain age. It becomes really hard to retain a new language, just learn. And American English, of course, is notoriously hard to learn, X. Like, so many rules, so many exceptions to those so many rules, you know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. And I saw this difference firsthand of, you know, like learning as an adult versus learning as a kid myself. Yeah. I learned English mostly through school and honestly, like a lot of

1:06television when I first got to this country as a kid from Ecuador, watching reruns of Who's the Boss and The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. Another Philly icon like you, Gene. I mean, I'll be trying. Actually, like learning English by watching Fresh Prince, that's kind of a whole thing on the internet. Born and raised. Raised here means grew up. Chilling out, Max, and relaxing all cool. These are all slang words that mean to relax as much as possible and

1:37just have fun. But watching my parents learn English, it just wasn't fun for them. I vividly remember my dad reading books with a Spanish-English dictionary at hand. Often after a long day of working at this moving company. So I understood that it was really harder for them. So that's kind of why I wanted to approach this story. Because it felt personal. And I understood that there were challenges that adults face when learning English that were completely different to what I had experienced. Yeah. And I imagine for your parents and other adults, like they're

2:10just different stakes attached to the learning too, right? For sure. And those stakes have only gotten harder for English language learners under the current administration.

Policy changes and funding threats

2:20So let's go back a bit to March 2025. Pretty fresh into Trump's second term, when he signed an executive order declaring English the official language of the U.S. Yeah, I remember that. And you know, the argument was the assimilation argument, right? Like one country, one language, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. The executive order says that this would empower people to achieve the American dream. Okay. Let's, we're going to shelve any debates about the existence of the American dream, whether that's even like an achievable thing. But like, leave that aside. With English

2:53as the official language, which has always been a controversial prospect, right? When you said we're talking about adults learning English, right? So does that mean that after this executive order, there are more English classes? See, Gene, you would think that, right? But, but no. Oh my God. Okay. Yeah, it's actually the opposite of that. The administration's budget proposed zeroing out money for adult language education. And on top of that, the executive order repealed a 25-year-old rule that required federal agencies to help people who don't speak

3:27English. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. So they're basically like, y'all got to learn English. And y'all got to interface with the government. Even if you don't speak English, we're not going to try to meet you halfway and have options for non-English speakers. And we're going to shut down or at least not give money to the places where you could learn English. So you just better, y'all know, get your Duolingo streaks up. Like, that's it? Just good luck to y'all? Yeah, pretty much. That is okay. Okay. And there's another piece to this, which is that even fully funded, the system to teach

3:58adult English was never close to big enough. There are about 25 million adults in this country with limited English. But the federally funded programs only serve around 600,000 of them a year. Okay, so just doing some quick back of the envelope math here. 600,000 out of 25 million. I mean, I'm going to mess up the calculation here. But the point is, the backlogs must be bananas if you want to take a class. Oh my God. Yeah, bananas indeed. There are long wait lists for

4:31people.

4:33So even before this executive order, if you wanted to do the thing Trump is asking for, which is to speak English, you were going to have to wait to learn how. Yeah, but now they're just being told to do it without the funding for these classes. And so that's what I've been looking into. What's happening with adult ESL under this administration? And what does it cost the people trying to build a life here?

Voices from Lincoln Literacy

5:03To start us off, I wanted to introduce you to some people I talked to. They're adult English language learners from an organization in Nebraska called Lincoln Literacy. I'm Dusha Jha, and I'm originally from Myanmar. When I first arrived, I was afraid to speak English because I didn't want to make a mistake, you know. My name is Maria Cruz de Pesina. I'm from a very small town in Mexico, San Luis Potosí, Mexico. After a few months that I got here, I realized that how important is the language to learn the

5:39language, because if not, you are always depending on other people. My name is Shereen Al-Hinto. I'm from Iraq. I'm ACP. Before, it's very hard for me. It's very difficult because it's not speaking English. It's not written, not writing. But it's for you. You live in the United States. You need to speak English. You need written writing. And Trump made that point clear, the need to speak English, by declaring it the official

6:09language of the country. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I wanted to understand what that actually looks like for people trying to learn the language. So I talked to someone named Jacob Hofstetter.

6:21I am a policy analyst with the Migration Policy Institute's National Center on Immigrant Integration Policy. Jacob studies how immigrants adjust to life here and what the government does or doesn't do to help. Like saying everybody needs to learn how to speak English and then take it away from their English classes. Yeah, exactly. And he's examined the different policies and programs over time that support English language learners in ESL classes. This is a really diverse group of adults and learners. So some might be in an English course

6:54and might have a PhD or a medical degree from their home country. Other individuals might have very low levels of formal education. And Jacob says that it's not only immigrants that take these ESL classes. He told me that native-born folks looking to improve their English take classes too. Yeah, that makes sense. So is there one place through which these classes are given? Uh, not really. Jacob says that most free or low-cost English programs are delivered through places

7:25like community-based organizations, school districts, or libraries. These classes are open to anyone who wants to improve their English skills. At least for now. The Trump administration has tried to add some immigration status restrictions. Ah, there it is. There it is. Yeah. And that's part of what Jacob counts as three separate threats to adult English education. I think most notably is that the second Trump administration has proposed zeroing out all of the

7:56federal funding for adult education programs. So these community organizations, these churches, they're all getting federal money for these programs. Yeah. These organizations get this funding of over $700 million a year through the federal government. Some states are more reliant on the federal government than others are for support. So it really depends on the particular local provider and how they're braiding funding to support their programs. Jacob told me that there's also the threat that the administration might decide to just withhold congressionally appropriated funds that support adult English education,

8:30even if they aren't cut. Yeah. We've seen them do that with other stuff, with other programs. Yeah. Yeah. And the second threat, which I mentioned earlier, has to do with immigration status. Federally funded adult education programs now are intended to have really strict verification requirements related to immigration status. Right. Because we've seen the administration already do similar things like this when they ask for, you know, verification for other programs like SNAP, which a lot of people will know as

9:00food stamps, right? Or healthcare programs, Medicaid, Medicare. They've already been checking people's immigration status for things like that. Right. And a number of states have sued the federal government to try to stop the implementation of these restrictions more broadly. But some states have already begun implementing those requirements, which has made it harder for English learners, even those who are documented. Obviously, they've excluded a large number of learners, many of whom are actually legally present in the country. They just don't have as settled of a status as is required by these

9:32really strict requirements. It's also caused chaos for a lot of providers who have had to implement these restrictions. And the final threat Jacob laid out is that the administration has tried to argue that these programs just shouldn't even exist. Saying that the program is ineffective, that it incentivizes, quote, illegal immigration, that it really doesn't have a place in the sort of broader constellation of federal programs that support the success of adults. X, I know that Jacob mentioned those three threats to English language programs, but I

10:05was wondering, like, if the ramped up immigration enforcement that we've been seeing for the last two years is, like, having an impact on who shows up in these classes, too. You know, Gene, I wondered the same thing. And yeah, it is. Some providers report they're seeing less people want to come to adult English programs or a desire to switch to virtual English programs. So I think there certainly has been some limited chilling effects. And remember, there are nowhere near enough classes for the people out there who want to take them. And that was true even before the Trump administration cut federal support.

10:40Our research indicates that the formalized system meets less than 5% of the need for adult English instruction in the country. We also hear from providers and from states all the time that there's a huge wait list in many cases for these English services and for English instruction. And wait lists for English instruction, to me, indicate that there's a pent-up demand for these programs that is not being met as well.

Kao Kalia Yang on her parents

11:06The topic of ESL, or English language learners, is near and dear to my heart. It is most of my elders and a lot of my community. Okay, whose voice is that? That is Kao Kalia Yang. She's a Hmong American writer, a poet in the Twin Cities area of Minnesota. Kao Kalia was born in Ban Vanai, a camp for Hmong refugees from America's Secret War. She came to the States when she was six years old, and was only 12 when she started teaching English to other immigrants. I was in middle school and there was a flyer. They were looking for tutors.

11:40I remember coming home with this brightly colored flyer and telling my dad, I should go home. So Kalia spent her whole life watching and helping adults learn English, starting with her parents. My father and my mother, they understood that in America, they would have to provide for us using their hands and their feet. So they both became assemblers. And at work, every time my dad had a question, he tried to talk, but his supervisor would say, B, you're here to talk to the machines, not to us.

12:12Yo, I hope that boss never knows peace. What the, oh my God. Yeah, it's messed up. Although her mother had a different response. My mom, who has a stubborn, stubborn heart, she'd been one of the only girls in her village to go to school before the bombs fell and life as she knew it ended. She wanted a diploma. And my dad told her, you should take the competency test and you'll be okay. But my mother insisted

12:43that she should get a diploma. And so she went to night school. So my childhood, I remember my mom going to Central High School in St. Paul and coming down those stairs. She was always the last person coming out. And her big thing was she was scared of meeting the football players after school in the hallways because it was their school. And she, she never felt like it was her school, but she was just part of the night classes. It took her three years to get her diploma. Wow. I mean, three years of night classes and raising kids at the same time. That's a lot.

13:19Yeah. And it sounds familiar to me. You know, it feels like a, like a very familiar story that many immigrants kind of go through. Yeah. And Kalia told me about what it was like when she and her big sister Doe were growing up, watching their parents work to make this new place their home and to learn a new language.

13:39I think back to all the picture books that Doe and I would come home with and how our mother would read them to us. Struggle through. I remember one time she fumbled on a word and I said, that's not how you read it. And she said, why don't you read it for me? So I did. And it didn't occur to me as a child, but instead of reading it, my mother would say, here, you two read it to me. And so we started reading to her. You know, these transitions that you never think about as a kid, how they stand still in your heart after all of these years.

14:14I wanted to ask Kalia about the now, about what we're seeing under this administration, the funding, the executive order, the immigration enforcement, what that all signals to her.

14:29Do we matter? Do we matter? And how long do we get to do this work? Because it's on so many different levels, even on the level of healthcare, Xavier. And when we think about language, it's so imperative, but like my mom and dad, they're getting letters, terminating their healthcare. Like so many other individuals and families across this country who rely on governmental support to maintain their health, their most basic needs. All of the structures that have enabled,

15:07facilitated lives like mine, are in danger. So it's a fire burning at many, many different places.

15:18Which is not even a question of the messaging that is sent. It is an effort to terminate, to end life as we know it. And I don't think I'm being dramatic. Kalia told me this story about a relative of hers, that I think highlights both the importance of language understanding, and the fear that people are living under in the Twin Cities. In Minnesota, we get a lot of ice and snow. So there was a sign for ice removal by a school.

15:50He was dropping his wife off to take English language classes. He saw the ice removal sign, and he panicked. Oh God. And when I learned of it, I panicked too. And then I drove to see it, and it was just the ice removal sign for the road. But you can see how this is detrimental and traumatizing.

16:16Wait, so he was dropping his wife off at an English class, but he didn't understand English well enough to know that the sign was not about immigration agents. Yeah. And it's, I mean, it's understandable given what everyone has seen in the news in the last year. Absolutely. Yes. Especially in Minnesota, you know, like, ice removal and ice removing people. It can be very easy to make that mistake. And immigrants are hyper aware of the violence that they could be met with when it comes to immigration enforcement.

16:47And the language that they say when they're coming into your house is, get out. It's English. The people who are telling you to get into the squad cars, that's English being used. I can be honest with you. Watching that mom grandpa get pulled out of his house without his shirt on, without pants on in the dead of a Minnesota winter. You know what people don't know, Xavier? They don't know that the blanket that was flung onto his shoulders, that that belonged to his grandson.

17:18They don't know that from one of the windows in the house, his grandson was watching the whole thing, Xavier.

17:25Collateral damage. That's something that we haven't even talked about yet about Operation Metro Search. And a lot of English language learning communities are either directly impacted, hurt, or all of those kids watching through all of those windows, unseen, unheard, without a voice in any of this. That grandfather, I know that he's already had an incredibly hard life. I know that during the war, he lost his parents and he was adopted by a nurse.

18:05Like all of that trauma.

18:08And then add on to this, that the world sees him without a shirt. A pair of Crocs in the dead of a Minnesota winter. When we come back, we hear from ESL students and instructors in Lincoln, Nebraska, where people told me that the hardest part of learning English isn't really the English. Confidence is just as important as the vocabulary. Many students know more English than they realize, but fear keeps them silent because they're afraid to make mistakes.

18:49That's coming up. Stay with us, y'all.

18:57Gene. Xavier. Code Twitch.

Immigration enforcement in Nebraska

19:00So today, one of our producers, Xavier Lopez, is on the mic. And we're talking today about how adult English language learning is faring under Trump's second term. That's right. As we've seen anti-immigrant rhetoric and policies ramp up in the last two years, I wanted to know how that's impacted people who are trying to learn English. One of the most important aspects for immigrants looking to make a new life here, to become an American. And Gene, for this next part, I'm going to take us to Lincoln, Nebraska,

19:30to talk to some folks I met at this organization I mentioned earlier, Lincoln Literacy.

19:38Before I take a class, I'm very nervous. How I'll be a good job because I'm not speaking English. I know good reading, writing. I don't know how I'll be a good job. The first barrier, the language, you want to communicate, you cannot communicate. It is just the feeling of not knowing anyone and like lost because you cannot understand nothing. You can speak and at the same time, nobody can understand you. You listen and it is like you needn't to listen because you can understand what I'm saying.

20:14Everything was our family, the language, the culture, even simple daily tasks. This was overwhelming for me because how can I survive?

20:29So Gene, those were the voices of the English language learners who we heard from earlier. I met them all through Lincoln Literacy, an organization in Nebraska that serves some 3,000 students each year. Students from all over the world. So, okay, 3,000. That's a lot more students than I would have expected. Is Lincoln, Nebraska a big hub for immigrants? Yes, actually. It's no Miami or Houston. But Brian Seck, who is the executive director at Lincoln Literacy, told me that up until recently, the city was receiving a pretty large number of immigrants, a lot of humanitarian parolees and refugees.

21:05Lincoln's about 10% foreign-born overall. And we've been a refugee community since 1975 when the Vietnam War ended. And that really kind of changed the face of Lincoln. And then that fast-forwards all the way to date. We were a large receiver for many waves of refugees coming to the United States. That's Julie Greaves. She's a director of adult skills and workplace programs at Lincoln Literacy. The largest number of people, of course, are Spanish speakers here.

21:35That's still very strong. But we have a large Arabic-speaking population. I believe the largest group of Yazidi that's in the United States lives here. One of the people I spoke with is a Yazidi refugee, Shereen Yardo. She came here back in 2016 after being chased out of Iraq by ISIS. And she told me that some of her family back home is still missing, actually. This is now, it's my family, it's 15, it's still missing. Sometimes people ask me, talk about my story, talk about my family.

22:09It's hard because it's my family missing. Shereen works two jobs, full-time at a meatpacking plant, and then at a McDonald's. Because I have two jobs, I'm very busy, I'm working, everything is expensive. Life of my family is hard for me. I can't sleep. I too much think about my family.

22:36Shereen came to the U.S. 10 years ago as part of a refugee resettlement program, back when the United States was still taking refugees. Right, we've talked about this before on the show, about how the Trump administration completely scaled back the number of refugees that the U.S. takes in from the rest of the world, with the notable exception of white South Africans. Yeah, exactly. And this is something that has been felt in Lincoln. Even with refugee arrivals down to, I would call, functional zero, we are getting a few white Afrikaners who are coming into Lincoln.

23:08But those folks, largely speaking English, they don't need us. So functional zero in that they're refugees that don't need us, which that's what it is. And we were supposed to get 1,000 in 2025 and got zero when the program ended. Wait, so they were supposed to get 1,000 refugees last year and they got none? Yeah, zero. What? Brian says that he still expects around 3,000 new students this year, but there'll be people who've been in Lincoln for a while, not any recent arrivals. He says there won't be a big drop in learners, but a leveling off,

23:39which I think makes sense given the current funding, as we mentioned, not meeting the outsized need for ESL programs. Right, right, right. So wait, wait, wait, what about the enforcement stuff, the, like, immigration crackdowns? We've had arrests in Lincoln. They have been individual, not raid style, where they're going into an employer. I think they are very organized and very present, but they are very tactical. Okay, so there's some presence, but not in the way we saw in Minneapolis or Chicago at the beginning of this year.

24:16Exactly. And Maria Cruz de Pesina, who we heard from at the beginning, was telling me a bit about that. When this started to happen, some of our classes, like, we had less attendance because they are afraid to do their daily living. They are also afraid of going to work. So for us and the attendance in our classes, it comes down.

24:40All right, X, so it sounds like the threats to English language learning and English language learners that Jacob was talking about earlier, those threats are already hitting Lincoln, Nebraska and the people there. So do you know if Lincoln also lost federal funding, too, for English language programs? Yes, but they're better off than a lot of other programs. Yeah, Lincoln Literacy is supported by donors and local dollars that are helping them bear the brunt of some of this funding loss, which has been a huge lifeline for a lot of the people that I spoke with and the people that they serve,

25:13especially since it seems like they do a lot more than just ESL programs. And Maria can testify to this. ESL classes has a big role because in ESL classes, it is not like teaching English. We also learn about the community programs that the community has, places where they can go if they are in need of food or other services, like health services, if they are in need of some of the basic things.

25:45Maria started out as a student, but is now one of the directors of transportation and child care. I never thought that I could be in this place and in coordinator child care and transportation. Maria told me that when she was first offered the job there, she turned it down. I said, oh, no, I don't feel confident about my English. No, I won't be able to do it. I said, it doesn't matter. So I think you can do it. I can communicate with you. So I think you will be able to do it. So she came in to learn English and now she's running a whole department.

26:19Yeah. And Maria mentioned something that has come up in almost every single one of my conversations throughout this reporting. And it's probably my biggest takeaway that taking ESL classes gives people more than just language skills. So much of what we do actually isn't technical knowledge, teaching English or teaching the skill sets. It's actually increasing the confidence of our students and their own abilities. So many times people know what you're saying, but they don't have the confidence to respond.

26:51They're afraid they're going to make a mistake. And I think our classes just provide that safe space to say the words out loud. Say it wrong. And what we find is we are definitely teaching people, but so much of it is helping them feel that they can get their point across, that they're not afraid to speak up, and that they're able to actually use their skills. Like, I can't quantify it, but I've taught a lot of English in my life. And so much of it is just giving people the permission.

27:21So the value is that you're in a room where getting it wrong doesn't hurt you. Nobody's going to clown you, right? Like, you can make mistakes. Yeah. Yeah. And that feels so counter to the experience of being an immigrant here. Like, you know, where you're, like, under so much constant pressure. Yeah.

Confidence, dignity, and courage

27:40Like, if you get it wrong, you have, like, real stakes. And it's something that Thussar Chaw, who immigrated here from Myanmar, told me. My teachers never judge me. They encourage me and believe me before I believe in myself. Thussar was an engineer in Myanmar, and now she's a nursing assistant in Nebraska. Learning English opens every door that follows. So, because a language isn't just about words. It is about the confidence of children and belonging.

28:12I mean, it's easy to find a job.

28:17Confidence is just as important as the vocabulary. Many students know more English than they realize, but fear keeps them silent because afraid to make mistakes. Every mistake is part of the learning. That's how I have the experience. It gives people more than language. It gives them independence. She said that learning English not only gives people independence,

28:48but dignity, because it gives them a voice. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Thussar is actually a tutor now, helping with the same program that she took in order to become a nursing assistant. And she's not done learning. I still speak Burmese at home, celebrate my tradition, and carry my culture with me every day.

29:12Learning, I think learning English didn't erase our rules. It simply gave me another language to share my story. That's why I'm continuing to study another Spanish class this fall. Thussar told me she wanted to take Spanish because it'll help her communicate with patients. She's going to learn Spanish now. That is bananas. That is so bananas. Yeah. But Gina, I was still stuck on this idea of confidence.

29:43You know, when I brought the confidence thing back to Kalkalia Yang, she actually pushed back on the word. So confidence is an interesting thing. You're right. It takes confidence to learn a language. But the infrastructure for confidence to grow does not exist in our contemporary climate. You and I know what's coming out from the White House, the kind of messaging that is being sent. I still belong to a community that is hiding in their homes, in the American Midwest.

30:12Because the signal, because the messaging is that we are not wanted.

30:20That we are weighing down this country. That what we have to give means nothing. So in this environment, it's really hard to cultivate confidence. And that translates not only to parents and children, but we know, you and I, that trauma is intergenerational. The confidence, while beautiful and while necessary, isn't necessarily the word I would choose for why so many English language learners speak.

30:54We speak because we understand, Xavier, that if we don't, no matter how inadequate we may be, we could be the only chance. There's a kind of desperation and a kind of belief that makes that voice possible in the world. As I'm finishing up now, I just wanted to ask, what do you want people who've never had to learn a new language or watch a parent do? What do you want these people to understand? I want them to understand the incredible courage that's brought these individuals to this place in time.

31:31I want people to understand that patience goes a long way in facilitating that magical word confidence, right? And cultivating that kind of culture that invites other people in. I want people to know that there's always somebody looking and learning from our engagements and our interactions with each other.

Credits and Fresh Prince memories

32:02By the way, y'all, we reached out to the White House for a comment and we did not hear back by the time of this recording. And that's our show.

32:15A reminder that you can follow us on Instagram at NPR Coast, which that's all one word. Yeah. I actually, I run the Instagram, by the way, just so you guys know. Oh, so Howard X.

32:26He's the person you're talking to, so when you're being mean on Instagram. Be nice. You're being mean to X. Yes.

32:32This episode was produced by me. It was edited by Courtney Stein. Our engineer was Jimmy Keighley. And we'd be remiss if we did not shout out the rest of the Code Switch Master. Right, X? We got Christina Kala, Jess Kung, Leah Danella, Dalia Mortada, B.A. Parker, Barton Girdwood, Yolanda Sanguini, and Maya Dangerfield. As for me, I'm Gene Demby. I'm Xavier Lopez.

32:54Beezio. Take care. Really, so if he's a trivia, I was there when they filmed the opening credits for the part where the cop is there. Wait, no way, really? Yeah, my boy's dad. Are you just messing? Are you messing? I'm dead. I'm dead ass. My boy Dan's dad was, like, he, like, was a TV producer. He was, like, a, like, he did, like, small video production in the Philly. He was, like, on, working on that. And we went there and we, like, saw him say, On the playground where he spent most of his days? It was, it was so long and boring.

33:25Like, and this is, like, we were just watching, like, oh, this, that's Fresh Prince. This is before he was Will Smith. That's the Fresh Prince. It was, like, literally, like, three hours of them taking that same, the cop coming over and, like, waving the baton, like, over and over and over again. And then, when West Philadelphia, born and raised. Yeah, I had no idea. Anyway, so, fifth grade. Incredible.