Our Ancestors Were Messy: a Black history comedy show

Welcome to Code Switch

0:00Hey, Parker here. Just letting you know that Code Switch drops on Tuesdays and Fridays now. Right now. Alright? On to the show. Hey everyone, you're listening to Code Switch from NPR. I'm B.A. Parker. And y'all are in for a treat. So, earlier this spring, Gina and I were invited as guests for a live recording of a podcast that we absolutely love called Our Ancestors Were Messy. A show that dives into the fun and off-kilter crevices of Black history.

0:33You might remember when its host and friend of the pod, Nicole Hill, came on Code Switch and had me found in love through Black newspapers from the 1930s. I think fondly of my Aries widower with his six-bedroom farmhouse. Now, Nicole has Jean, myself, and a live audience at Howard University front and center on a windy journey through the antebellum South to parts unknown.

Our Ancestors Were Messy

1:01Take a listen. The Secret Adventures of Black People presents Our Ancestors Were Messy. A band of war-weary vets embark on a quest to find the promised land. Along the way, they'll face obstacles that pit them against the elements, the unemployed, and each other. This episode stars co-hosts of NPR's Code Switch, B.A. Parker and Jean Demby.

1:35And your host, Nicole Hill.

1:40Live from the Moreland-Spingarn Research Center in Washington, D.C., this is Our Ancestors Were Messy. A show about our ancestors and all their drama. So, typically, I tell stories from 1865 to 1955. However, today, I'm doing something a little different. Oh, let's go. Because it's America's semi-quincentennial, which is the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

2:12Say the word again. Semi-quincentennial. All right. It's an important and real word. And I have a feeling that this current regime might not celebrate black folks. What makes you think that? I don't know why I think that. But we were there, if you can believe it. You're kidding. We were there even before. But I don't think they're going to talk about it. Absolutely not. So, I was like, let's talk about it here today. So, I'm going to be telling a story from the revolutionary era of America, the colonial revolutionary, that whole period.

2:45Okay. That's what we're talking about today. This is pre-newspapers, but not pre-mess. Don't worry. It will be in here. Like Christmas Addict's mess? Does he have mess? I don't know. I mean, he was the first one to die in the war, wasn't he? He was. I'm not going to be talking about stuff like that. All right. It's going to be different. It's going to be different from that. You'll notice that you all have bells. Yes. Oh, where? So, yeah. Oh, you don't have bells. Do you want some? Don't worry about it because we do it fully? Yes, we are. Yes, we are.

3:15Okay, let's go. So, what we're going to be doing is there's going to be decisions that have to be made. You all will make some decisions and all of you are going to be making some decisions. And you'll ring your... Make good decisions, though. Huh? Make good decisions. Make good choices. And so, you'll ring your bells to let us know. And you'll learn more as we go. Now we begin.

Black Church and Identity

3:37Hello, you two. Hi. Cool. Well, I have some questions for you. Okay. To get us ready for today's story. Okay. How has the black church influenced your identity as a black American, if at all? Oh, my God. So... So, you're Catholic, right? I'm super Catholic, but I'm black Catholic, which is a very specific kind of Catholic. I mean, it's crazy because people don't get it. It's like, there's gospel music and genuflection and communion. And all the people in my church were black. All of our priests were black. Wow. So, it was a very black liturgy. But, you know, all the Catholic stuff.

4:08You know what I'm saying? Wow. So, I didn't get the... The first time I went to a Baptist church.

4:13If you're a Catholic, you know that mass is 55 minutes. And that's if the priest is going long. If he's like, ramble. So, the first time I went to a Baptist church, and I saw at the bottom of the little program, an asterisk that said, this is scheduled to change, subject to change the discretion of the Holy Ghost. I was like, what's this mean? We got there at 10 a.m. The Eagles game started at 1. I missed the entire game. We went in for four. I was like, what is this? That's just... That's all commitment. No, listen. That's just standard.

4:45It was too much. You see what's going to run a man? I was like, dog, this is too much. The praise and worship was longer than a mess. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. I enjoy the vibes. I grew up Baptist.

4:55Calm down. The electrolytes. My mom is still a big part of the home church. My deacon sends me a very nice Easter card in New York. It's really nice. My mom tricked me into giving a sermon last year. Wait, you did a sermon? Oh, wow. I don't know if it was a sermon. I was supposed to give a speech, and then I looked, and I realized I was the only person speaking that day. And they were like, you sit here, and it was like the preacher's chair. Oh, my gosh. And I was like, oh, I feel like I've been tricked. Did you get into the...

5:25No, because I have sense. I don't have... That's not my ministry. That's not your ministry. That's not your ministry. Okay, so we're experienced. The black church has been a part of your experience. I mean... Whenever people turn these questions around on me, I'm like, you know what we doing right now? Journalists at the table. I grew up super, super Pentecostal. Oh. So we're talking... She went pants on. Somebody say something.

5:52That's a whole different vibe. Yeah, pants were a problem. That's true. But we're, you know, so it's a lot of, if you don't know, a lot of speaking in tongues, church all day. I was like, four hours. That's so cute. You're like, oh. You're cute. Lightwork. But I will say, and Ronald can back me up on this, because I grew up, every Sunday was a full concert. It's like you learn what it is to be an orator. You learn what it is to move a crowd. Because every single Sunday, that's just what you do for 12 hours. That's what you do now. Yeah. 12 hours. No, I mean, not 12. Like six.

6:29Okay. Okay. What kind of black are each of you? What you mean? What kind of black are you?

6:37When people... When you... Wait, do you have an answer? Wait, what is your answer? You do? Go ahead. I would say that I'm a reluctant Huxtable. Oh. I... My family is... I'm a working class family. I'm not working class anymore. It's the... Moving into the black upper middle class has been a very vertiginous experience. It's something I'm trying to make sense of all the time. It's very central to my politics. But all the time, I'm like, these Huxtables... My home... Leah said this other... My editor was like, Jean, you are a Huxtable.

7:07Yeah, my guy. Oh. So, yeah, that's the word I live in now. A reluctant Huxtable. A reluctant Huxtable, yeah. Oh, if we're using those terms, I'm like a Sinclair.

7:17Please explain. From living to... Like, I grew up... Like, I grew up in an only child, but I was always raised... I grew up around a bunch of elderly people. And they're siblings, so I come off like a black Amish. Black Amish. Black Amish. My mom is offended by that somehow. But, yeah. So, Parker, you was one of them kids on the playground. I'd be like, you ain't got the sense God gave up. A little bit. I did...

7:48I talk like an angry Southern baby. An angry Southern baby. A black Amish. What? Like, I sounded like someone's grandma when I was like five. Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes. So, I have that going for me. My best friend, when I was a kid, used to call me Nana. Like, that was her nickname for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. So, like that. Okay, so Sinclair, black Amish. What did you say? A black Southern baby. Black Southern baby. That is a first on the show. We have not had anybody explain their blackness that way, and I love it. Oh, my God.

8:27All right. Thank you all so much. These questions will factor in to how you experienced the story. Let's begin.

Benjamin Franklin and the Revolution

8:38It's 1775, and we're in Philly. Let's go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're in the home of one of the most famous Americans in the world, Benjamin Franklin. In the living room, behind closed doors, this is in the movie, Benjamin is fighting with his beloved only son, William Franklin. And here's why. At the moment, there are around 2 million largely European migrants living in the 13 colonies. Native Americans would call them illegals. They're pretty diverse, different languages and religions and cultures, but you can divide everyone up this way.

9:08A third, Benjamin Franklin included, are like, we're done with the British, we're called patriots, and we want to do the American Revolution. Another third are like, we hate politics, leave us out of this, they're not getting involved. And then the final third, including William Franklin, the son, are like, we need to stick with the British, we're called loyalists, and we're going to stop this American insurrection. In the movie, Benjamin Franklin is yelling at his son. He's saying, you're going to be a loyalist slave to the British?

9:38Calling people slaves for siding with the British is like a thing that the patriots love to do. Even though. Even though. Worry about the slaves now.

9:48Cognitive dissonance. There's like a thing in anthropology where you can understand a culture by their cognitive dissonance. So this is part of that. So he's like, you're going to be a little slave? I can't believe you. And William says, Dad, why are you going against our king? And over what, the Boston Massacre? That wasn't even a massacre, that's fake news. These two. These two will go on to fight on opposite sides of the war. Afterwards, despite William's attempts at reconciliation, Benjamin Franklin will die having never forgiven his son for siding with the British.

10:21America was a house divided from the very start. But this is not a story about the Franklins. Oh, I was about to say. Yeah, I mean. It's a different show. Wait a second. In the movie, listening to this fight just outside the living room, are Joseph, Jemima, Peter King, Othello, George, and Bob. These are all the people that Benjamin Franklin enslaved in his lifetime. Okay. They turn to each other and they say the thing that has to be on the minds of the 500,000 enslaved black people across the 13 colonies. Whose side of this are we on?

10:51This is the story of our ancestors' revolutionary quest for promised land. Let's go. Okay, here we go.

David George Escapes to Freedom

11:04Act one. Okay, so here's what's going to happen. We're going to make a bunch of decisions. Okay. And when it's decision time, you're going to see this board. And I'm going to ask the two of you, what would you do? And I'm going to ask all of y'all, what would you do? And we're going to go from there. And there's no pressure. People often say they feel stressed at this part. Don't feel stressed. Well, now people are looking at us. Huh? People are looking at us when we decide. Yeah, but it's going to be fine because you can consult each other. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll make good choices. Here we go. Will we, though?

11:34You will. All right, so here we go.

11:40It's still the colonial era. And now we are in Essex County, Virginia, with our ancestor, whose name is David George. Every historical account I've read about him describes him as charming and charismatic and a survivor. You will need to cast him later, so just keep that in mind. You don't have to pick now. There'll be a point where I ask, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Just keep it in the back of your head. It can be anybody living, dead. It doesn't matter, but think about it. I won't have a picture for you because people did not take pictures of, you know, enslaved. Valid. Okay, he'd been born enslaved to a sadistic person that we're going to call the cruel man.

12:14David sees this man torture his family, and he's terrified that he is next, so he runs. But for our ancestors, running was only the beginning because people that traffic in humans don't just let them go. They own businesses where labor is free, and if you build a whole country with free labor, it'll be competitive on the global market in no time. So industries evolved to keep enslaved people enslaved. After David runs, the cruel man chases him across Virginia. He's bought and sold a few times by other people, always with the cruel man on his heels.

12:45Eventually, he's sold to someone down in Silver Bluff, South Carolina, and he escapes the cruel man for good. On this new plantation, things are a little bit calmer. He meets and marries a very resilient-sounding woman named Phyllis, and they have a baby. Okay, based on what you've heard so far, who would you cast to be David, and who would you like to see be his Phyllis?

13:09So, I don't want to say because of Django, but you said charming, survivor. Charismatic, yeah, yeah, yeah. Jamie Foxx is like a font of charisma, and a person who talks about everything. That's who I was thinking. Oh, wait, who are you in? Oh, I mean, I was thinking like, yeah, Abdul-Mateen. I mean, the reason she was thinking about him. I mean, I'm fine. She's always thinking about him. She's indeed always. To be clear.

13:40So that's, you know, if I can, if I can see you. If we have that one, you can have the Phyllis.

13:47Oh, all right. Okay. Okay, so we got a bell, so it's Yaya. It's like Yaya. All right. So, look at the population. I know, she plays an audience. She knows who's here. Okay, but you can pick the woman. Okay, you cast Phyllis. She's resilient. They unfortunately don't give us a lot of information about Phyllis, but she is definitely resilient.

14:07Do you know any Brazilian people? You said, not Brazilian. They said, resilient? But she said, resilient, not resilient. Not resilient. Not resilient. Truth be told, I have tinnitus. I'm working about it. Okay, resilient, resilient. Oh, man. And who would we want to see next to Yaya playing his wife? They're about to go on a whole journey. Ooh.

14:26Y'all muttering. Hold on, hold on. Can I tell you? Oh, do you have ideas? Wait, who do y'all say? But see, Regina King should be in everything. That's the thing. She should be in everything. They were in Watchmen together. It already worked. Oh. So now we got to do it. So now we have to do it. The bells have been run. The bells have spoken. Okay. All right. Though Regina King is like such a value add to everything. It's true. But now it's done. Okay. So Regina King and Yaya. And Yaya. So that's who we're picturing. That's what we're imagining. David is, is, uh, sorry.

14:58David is Yaya. Yes. David is Yaya. And Regina King is Phyllis. It's Phyllis. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. All right. I'm locked in. Lock in. Here we go. So they have a child. Okay. And the situation seems calmer. This enslaver isn't as violent, but David falls into what sounds like a depression. Today we would point to the family separation, the escapes, the captures, knowing his child has been born enslaved. But at the time he doesn't know what's wrong with him. They're obviously not thinking too much about their mental health.

15:30So he is one day, he's like in the woods and he runs into a guy. We've all had this experience. Where have we? The dude is like, um, do you know our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ? And he's like, no, not really. And the guy's like, well, if you don't get to know him, you're going to burn in hell forever. And so he's kind of like, oh, okay. For him that works. Sometimes that works. So he starts thinking about Christianity. Okay. And he starts praying and at first nothing happens, but then eventually he keeps at it. And he says that he hears God say, I will send you deliverance.

16:02Okay. Yeah. Could this maybe be a sign that he should run again? He hasn't run before. It's time for major decision number one. Here we go. Imagine that you are in his shoes. You tried to escape slavery a few times. It had not worked out for you before, but you are miserable. And you believe you've been told that deliverance is coming. The other thing to keep in mind, you do have a partner and a child. And imagine the child is like under five. Would you run again or would you try to find some peace in slavery?

16:36I. Oh my God. You're a parent. Here's the thing you have to consider. I am not a parent. Yeah. And they're in South Carolina. Yeah. South Carolina. I. I know.

16:53Okay. They got away with it once. Yeah. What would you do? No. Okay. So the two of you don't think about anything else. Think about your, imagine somebody you love. You need, they need to come with you. What would you do? Oh man. Leaving my son, my son is four. My son. Oh my God. That would destroy me. I don't know. I do. I honestly do not know how to answer this question. I would like to think that I'm the person who, who runs, but I also, I want to be, I don't know, look at the current state we're in. And it's not a split the baby situation.

17:24You can't take, your wife and your child cannot come with you. I mean, you could ask them to try to run. She just had a baby and the baby is a baby. But it's like, what would you do? It's a leap of faith.

17:36As a Baptist, we believe in a leap of faith. All right. So what's your choice going to be? This is collective? No, no, no. You can decide separately. Then I'm leaving and I don't know what you're doing, Gene. All right. So Parker is running. Gene?

17:53I'm going to say stay. Just going to want to see where the story goes, but I don't know if that's the right answer. No, no. There's still, there's no right answer. This is a terrible truth. I know there's no right answer. Okay. Because he's going to die. It's truly whatever you would do in his shoes. Right now, he's just like, I am so miserable. What do I do? You've decided you're out. I'm out. And Gene, final decision? I'll stay. You're staying. All right. If you are running, let's hear it.

18:23All right. And if you're going to stay.

18:28It's real. So David George stays. Okay. But he's miserable. He keeps trying prayer and he's still keeping an eye on the horizon for this deliverance that God said that he would send. And the praying and the hoping does start to make him feel a little bit better. Then a black Baptist pastor named Brother Lyle stops by the plantation. All right. During colonial era, Baptists and Methodists were welcoming to converts from laboring classes across race, but in different ways.

19:02Can't get into that more right now. Just keep it in mind. Anyway, Brother Lyle is preaching and he's like, you guys, God said, come unto me all you that labor and I will give you rest. And David George is like, oh my God, God likes laborers. That's incredible. He learns to read. He starts scrolling through the Bible. He's like, like, like, like. He's into all of it. Him and Phyllis get baptized and then they join Brother Lyle's congregation. So they offer him a position as a pastor because he's just, people just like him. So like, do you want to be our pastor?

19:32And he is like, pass, because he feels like he's unfit. But eventually he says, okay. And he gets their enslaver to give them a barn for their services. They name it Silver Bluff Baptist and it becomes one of the first black churches in America. Whoa. If you Google it, they'll say they're the first. I wish I could call them that, but like, technically, I mean, it's complicated. And of course, always. But they're one of the first, like first or second, like official in a building recognized by a white people. Under David, Silver Bluff Baptist grows from eight to 30 members.

20:03His congregation is made up of our ancestors, fellow captives. They're all likely to have experienced violent assaults and to have witnessed their loved ones being violently assaulted. But I imagine that at Silver Bluff Baptist, they get to enjoy, at least for a little while, a sense of safety. Everybody say safety. Safety. Ooh, he sounds so good. In that safety, they'll teach each other Bible stories. Historians note that black folks across colonies seem to love one story in particular. It's their, I want to dance with somebody. They're living on a prayer. They're return of the Mac.

20:35It's the Exodus tale of how God sided with enslaved laborers over wealthy pharaohs and eventually sent deliverance. Everybody say deliverance. Deliverance. In the form of Moses, who parted the seas and led them into the promised land. So in my movie, David is preaching. He's tearing it up. Everybody's going crazy. Very Pentecostal. Tongues and stuff. Even though they're Baptists. It's my movie. And then the congregation together will sing one of our people's most powerful hymns. Okay, so the song was Kirk Franklin's Revolution.

21:06I can't play it now for licensing reasons, but you should go listen to the chorus and then laugh, laugh, laugh, and then come right back.

Choosing Sides in the War

21:13Okay, and then the American Revolution arrives in Silver Bluff. In 1779, they hear that the Redcoats are coming. And David George is in slaver. He just runs away. He leaves everybody. He's like, I'm out. They're like, oh my God, okay. And now our ancestors and all of you have some more decisions to make.

21:38Okay, so black folks are meant to be in this information blackout at this point in time. And slavers worry that all the talk of all men being created equal will give them ideas. But there are all kinds of whisper networks across plantations. For example, black folks who are forced to deliver the mail, these are like the number one information takers. They like drop off the mail to the white folks, and then you go to all the black folks, and you're like, here's the word. Come on, man. So this is what's been going on, and maybe that's how everybody heard what was happening in Virginia.

22:08In 1775, Lord Dunmore, governor of Virginia, was like, okay, enslaved people. I proclaim that if you fight for the British, you'll be free. A guy named Harry Washington from a plantation called Mount Vernon was like, bet. So he tried to escape this plantation before, but his enslaver George Washington had hunted him down and dragged him back. But then word gets out about Lord Dunmore's emancipation proclamation, and Harry escapes for good. He dons a red coat. He fights for the British.

22:39There was also this other guy that everybody calls Colonel Ty. He escaped slavery in New Jersey and joined the British, where he got command of a guerrilla unit specializing in raids, ambushes, and assassinations. The papers say that men like him serve in uniforms with liberty to the slaves written across their chests. Now, maybe you're wondering how anyone knows that the British will actually free them after the war, like they said that they would. Like, why would our ancestors believe in them? And the answer is, because the British promised.

23:11It's time for major decision number two. Oh, come on now. No! Who is going... Come on, no. Are you going to fight for the British loyalists, or are you going to fight for the American patriots?

23:26So... Ooh.

23:28But the promise of fighting for the British... The promise is that they will free you. The Americans have promised no such thing. I mean, this is easy, then. No one will you know then. This is an easy choice. Okay, what's it going to be? You fight for the British. Fight for the British? No one will you know then. Oh! Right? That's a resounding bell. That's a resounding... Okay, what about you, Parker? What are you going to do? Oh, I promise of being free? Yeah. You're going with the British. Go with the British. What is the pro-American argument in this case? I mean, I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:00Okay, if anybody... You can work some more for free. Right.

24:05Is anybody... And there's no judgment? This is a safe space. Is anybody fighting... Is going to stay with the Americans? There's some judgment. No, no, there's not. Is anybody going to go with the Americans?

24:17What? Whoa. Hot take, hot take. Exactly. Listen, sometimes that's how it is. All right. All right. Oh, man. We can't... We can't get into it right now from the stage. I have so many questions. Ask us afterwards.

24:35Okay. 5,000 to 8,000 enslaved and free black people fought for the Americans. An estimated 15,000 to 20,000 black people fought for the British, including the members of Silver Bluff Baptist Church. So David George, all of them, they're fighting for the British now. So we're all together. All right. The thousands of black folks who fought for the Americans. Yeah. Do we know anything about what their logic was? Okay, so some of them have to do it. They're like, they're enslaved and they have to, but some of them really do believe in the American cause and they feel like, okay, I want to support this.

25:06And they're hoping that they will be free afterwards. Because the language of freedom is in... Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I mean... I mean, some of them did valiant things. No, no. I mean, I don't know that much about them. It's not a story about them. That's all right.

25:25Okay. So they are stationed outside of Savannah, Georgia. This is David George and Silver Bluff Baptist. They're outside of Savannah, Georgia with the British. And when they're there, they run into Brother Lau. This is of the God digs laborers message. They're all so happy to see each other. I like to imagine some of America's first two black pastors and their congregations just sticking really close together as they navigate the horrors of war. They're keeping each other encouraged. But then in 1781, the British surrender at Yorktown, and they all learn they picked the

25:55losing side. Yay. You knew it. You heard... You knew how... I mean... Saw Hamilton. We know how it goes. You saw Hamilton. Yeah.

26:10America and Britain meet up to negotiate their divorce. George Washington is like, I want all of my property back, including Harry Washington and all those black loyalists, give them back to me. Sir Guy Carlton, the lead negotiator for the British, is like, well, actually, the black loyalists are technically free because we promised them already. Once they came over, once you got to their lines, you were free. You just had to fight for them. So they're like, there's nothing I can do. I can't re-enslave them because they're free now. So they say that it's about honor, but the British know how crucial slavery is to the

26:41country's economic model. And so they also just want them to lose, you know? So George and Guy fight and fight, but eventually Sir Guy Carlton agrees to a compromise. He's like, okay, so listen, I'm going to take a bunch of loyalists, including the black ones, up to Nova Scotia, which is the nearest British colony that hasn't betrayed us. We are going to tally up their value, and then we're going to, like, send you a check. George Washington is like, I know that you're not going to pay us for them. And Guy Carlton is like, GW, I promise.

27:15So word goes out to the black loyalists that if they can make it to New York City, find the right location, get their name in a ledger called the Book of Negroes, collect a certificate of freedom, proving their military service, make it onto a ship, they can stay free.

27:29Easy peasy. Yeah, that's all you got to do. David George, Phyllis, and Silver Bluff Baptist are back in South Carolina when this plan is announced. So I'm sure everyone's stressed. Yes, but then our charismatic survivor gets word, somebody's like, actually, David, there's a boat that will take you from South Carolina to Nova Scotia from here, but you got to move. Okay. So you got the hookup. In the movie, David and Phyllis tell everybody to get ready to leave for Nova Scotia right now. At this point, this is like going to another state. It's another one of the colonies.

28:00So they're not like, oh my God, Nova Scotia is just like, oh, okay, a 14th colony, whatever. So that's what they're doing. Get ready, get ready, get ready, is what he's saying. And then him and Phyllis, they're back in their tents, they're packing, they're getting ready to go. Then they get like a little tap, tap, tap on the door. It's Brother Lyle and some of the folks from Silver Bluff Baptist, and they say, Brother David, we're not going to Nova Scotia. Sorry for that. Brother Lyle found a ship that will take him and his people to Jamaica. Oh.

28:29I was like the weather thing in Nova Scotia, you know what I'm saying? It's cold up there. I was like, hey, bro, I can be free. Every black person I tell this story is like, it sounds so cold. It's so cold. Look, having just gotten back from Alaska on Monday, let me tell you, Jamaica is sounding great right now. So for them at this time, Jamaica is also just another state, is another colony. It's a slave colony. They know that. They know that, but maybe he's from there. Maybe there are people are from there. We don't know why, but this is where they prefer to go. All right.

28:59And then the Silver Bluff Baptist congregation has decided to go back to South Carolina. This is the home that they know. In the movie, everyone will say, Brother David, Sister Phyllis, Nova Scotia, how do y'all know that the British aren't tricking you? How do you know they won't just re-enslave you? And David will say, because the British promised. It's time for major decision number three. Well, it sounds silly when you say it. So the choices are... Are you going to go to Nova Scotia without any of your friends, or are you going to stay

29:31in America? So the choices are Nova Scotia, which is cold. Which is cold, yes. But you would be free. But you would be free. They promised that you'll be free. I mean, freedom, but... You're going to Nova Scotia without all your friends? Nova Scotia. You're going? Okay. Eat some lobster, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, come on. It's decided. But wait, so, but the folks are staying in... They're staying in America. They're going to go back to South Carolina to Silver Bluff Baptist Church. I mean, peace be the journey. I mean, good for them. Those are all your people, though. These are all your people. It's just going to be you, you and your wife and your kids are getting ready to get on

30:05this boat, and then they tell you, we're all going, we're not going to go to Nova Scotia. We're done trusting the British. We're going back to what we know.

30:14Wait, what's happening over there? You're out? You're out. You're out. She's out. Okay. Who is going to stay in America?

30:24That's for it? And who is going to Nova Scotia?

30:30Everybody's okay. All right. So, y'all, your final decision? No, no, Jamaica's not out. Oh, Jamaica's okay. No, no, no. I was like, oh, I was surprised at how definitive it was. No, no, no. Just America and Nova Scotia. Like, did Harriet Tubman go to Canada? She did. She did. Yeah. But she went to, did she go to Nova Scotia?

30:53To me, it is just blank coldness. It is all. It's rocky. It's islands. I don't know. All right. Nova Scotia. Okay. I feel like we are not going to get the story of one year. Surprise, Nova Scotia. When the members of Silver Bluff Baptist return to South Carolina, they are likely re-enslaved, but they keep Silver Bluff Baptist going, and it is still in operation today. Are you serious? I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, look at Missionary Morgan up there.

31:24Yes. Oh, my goodness. With the crown on. That hat is everything. Yes. That's amazing. Mm-hmm. Isn't it? Oh, my God. Yes. They keep it going. When Brother Lau makes it to Jamaica, he becomes an indentured servant. Eventually, he's free, and he opens Baptist churches across the island that teach countless black children and adults to read at great personal risk. They call him, they like, the estimates, I couldn't include them in here because they're so wild. They're like, he taught 10,000 people to read. I was like, well, not sure. Were there 10,000 people on the island, but he taught a lot of people.

31:54That was sort of his claim to fame. Mm-hmm.

32:01After the American Revolution, 20,000 loyalists choose to relocate to Nova Scotia. This is black and white, making them the first Americans to say, this government is crazy, I'm moving to Canada. But it's not called Canada yet. This is not an original story. Exactly. It never is. It's not called Canada yet, though. This includes Phyllis and their kids, David George. They are among that number. They're all going. Oh, wow. All right. Yes, yes, yes. In the movie, we're going to see Sir Guy Carlton on the docks in New York City. His general, Birch, approaches him and hands him what's called the Book of Negroes.

32:34It contains the names and escape stories of 3,000 black loyalists. Oh, my God. Birch will say, sir, I've totaled the value of all the black loyalists in this ledger so that you can pay George Washington back like you promised. At this, Carlton will laugh and laugh. And he'll say, imagine paying reparations for slavery. I'm not doing that. He'll toss the book aside and say, I'm sure the Americans will let it go. Everybody say, let it go. Let it go. You've got to say, turn to your neighbor. You've got to say, turn to your neighbor. Oh, I'm so sorry. Turn to your neighbor and say, let it go.

33:05Say, let it go. I will let it go. I will. That's time for the black Catholic.

33:13At that back of service, that was nine years old. The one day. okay here we go act two so this is just a little fun fact just to set the scene a little bit

Arriving in Nova Scotia

33:42when canadian students meet the colonists aboard those ships leaving america they do not meet them as traitors or as losers they know them as the united empire loyalists the principal genteel heroes of the american insurrection these are the founding families of english-speaking canada they stood up for what they believed in despite the cost they were classy and white and rich and white and educated and not poor and triumphant and white were they white no there were no black

34:13people don't even we'd never heard of a book of negroes it's just white people okay back to the archives here we go it's the summer of 1783 20 000 loyalists have begun arriving on a rocky little peninsula up by maine called nova scotia that's where it is because i was like people don't know where nova scotia is it's over there it's shocking it's new england it's new england yes yes yes they were they were called the 14th colony they did try to get in on the american revolution um but the

34:45founding fathers thought they were lame it's okay so it's the summer 1703 the loyalists have begun arriving in nova scotia there's a large white population that's already there that's mainly ex-americans the first nations would call these people illegal everyone starts spreading out across the province but 10 000 black and white people head to a town on the southern coast called shelburne everybody says it's pretty empty we don't know why the loyalist vets expect to arrive

35:17and receive a plot of land with rations waiting for them the black loyalists expect all that too plus freedom turn to your neighbor and say freedom freedom now when i'm researching i will just read like a line it'll say so and so ended up here or there and i'm like why like i need so much more information but it's just not in the archive so i don't have to imagine and do all this research so what i'm going to tell you is like a whole imagine scenario to then explain this one line and

35:48maybe why it happened okay so come with me on this journey i mean parts of it are real this part's real uh we know that david heads to shelburne while phyllis and the kids stay in halifax presumably until david finds work and housing for them so the kids are up there with phyllis he's going down to shelburne so let's imagine all the boats docking white folks start heading in the direction of shelburne but black folks head in the opposite direction four-ish miles in a river away so we're picturing david looking around he's confused he's like what's going on then he bumps

36:19into harry washington and he's like where are all the black people going and harry says to the promised land follow me they head to a lush green community uh in the forest that the black loyalists name birchtown it's not the best spot in the province right on the water and near a swamp but it's run by the elite fighters that had served under the late great colonel ty who died valiantly in battle these men are not city planners but during the war they'd specialized in raids ambushes and

36:51assassinations rumor has it that when they left america they'd kept their guns and maybe that is why 2 000 out of the 3 000 black loyalists choose to live in birchtown their protection exactly exactly some real killers exactly very philly the living in birchtown is tough the black loyalists get fewer rations and supplies because the science of the day says that they are less human they get to talk into the mi'kmaq indigenous

37:21people though and they learn that shelburne and the surrounding areas were solid rock totally unfarmable the winters are brutal that's why it was so empty so they're like oh my god the british like what are we gonna do and the mi'kmaq are like don't worry okay we're gonna help you out they agree to teach them some survival basics they teach them how to build what are called pit homes which are like you dig them into the ground and you can build them with trees because they won't give them lumber and stuff so they're like we hook it up they start having a couple babies you know how it is uh the uh black loyalists organize work crews and safety patrols and then i'm sure like the new

37:57england blacks are like okay southern blacks this is winter it's coming stuff like that is that so this is by no means a perfect scenario but the black loyalists of birchtown are now the largest community of free black people on the continent and likely the world outside of africa really so history has only really captured like how miserable it would have been there but we'll do a little exercise here if you had been enslaved and now you're free you're david george

38:29and your time is your own what do you think you would do if you were in birchtown how would you spend your time i mean it's you got you lost the fish i mean it's like you know i'm saying you'd be fishing you know i'm saying you could do whatever you want right i mean anything you want it it's cold but you could do whatever you want it yeah and they they get there in the summertime so what do you think you would do you would go fishing oh fish all the time straight fishing lobster every day say less every day wait is capitalism being foisted upon them i mean it has to work but like after all the horrors and all of this stuff like that what would you do with your time my leisure

39:01time yeah you have it for the first time ever that's right he can read right he can read time for the first time ever that's banana i'd find a book no what'd you say i'd find a book yeah and just read i would go for the longest walks i would just walk around it'd be so incredible because you can because you can you can't get in the water though because it's too cold it's too cold but maybe some of them are like are down my family's from maine and we have one black cousin who will get in the water in the water one black he'll do it the one the rest of us won't but in the summertime it's it's

39:38okay it's okay you can do it for a couple minutes for like a couple minutes yeah so maybe swimming lobster fishing for lobster every day every day reading walking okay i don't and unfortunately they don't capture what they did but i would imagine it's something like that a lot of well i'm assuming is that they set up a church i mean imagine oh i'm sorry let's get into that the black loyalists are super christians oh there you go religion is to them what the algorithm is

40:12to us it is brought to them by people that you should not trust very shady and yet they engage they like they follow this is a cognitive dissonance thing that's so funny it makes no sense but everybody's still like the balloon but it's like crazy their influencers are the preachers and the equivalent of their phones would be the methodist meeting house they turn to it for everything this is where their kids go to school where people get married and of course where they have church in my movie pastor david george heads to the methodist meeting house to meet with their lead pastor so

40:46we'll see david in the sanctuary he's waiting expectantly and then like um maybe there'll be some like flashbacks of silver bluff baptist revolution kirk franklin all of that uh suddenly an old man begins making his way down the aisle with the help of a cane he's blind he says brother david i'm so pleased the lord brought you here today but you can tell he's not pleased david george says brother moses what a blessing but you can tell it's kind of not this is moses wilkinson aka old moses he's a

41:18formerly enslaved minister from virginia who'd managed to escape the british lines during the war and make it up to nova scotia and the way that he preached the exodus story is very legendary people say he gets so into it that his congregants worry he'll have a heart attack in the movie david will be like i'm also very good at preaching that story my congregants are also very worried about my heart when i preach it too so then he's going to be like hello pastor moses i think i am the perfect assistant pastor for you and i also think that here in the promised land black and white people

41:51should be going to church together moses will be like excuse me interracial church is a colonial era baptist belief david is a baptist but moses is a methodist and this is a methodist meeting house so yes our ancestors have just survived slavery and a war and are now some of the freest black people in the world but baptists and methodists cannot just be going to church together you know what i mean this would be like a tiktok user and a facebook user being like let's be in community

42:21with one another this is not going to work some of the barbs some of them are there it is exactly this is what it is so all right so i picture old moses telling david your application for the ministry is denied this here is methodist country and mark my words black and white people going to church together will only lead to trouble oh moses it's time for major decision number three four four okay if you were david george would you rather live in birchtown with your people but you cannot

42:56do the thing that you love which is preach or would you rather move to shelburne which is where all the white people are but maybe you can do what you love there how much would you sacrifice for a dream if you would stay in birchtown let's hear it i know you're shaking the baby too okay so the majority of the room is staying in birchtown gene parker where are you going

43:27i'm staying in birchtown you're staying in birchtown i think i'm staying in birchtown too you're staying in birchtown all right let me tell you what happened what is the oh david david i swear to god david okay so there's only one line in the archives this one gets that sentence all this is for this one sentence yeah david george chooses to live in shelburne come on he's like oh i got a career to make man come on he really likes preaching that is he like preaching that much he likes it that much

44:03i mean this is so funny you guys are very there's gonna be so much drag on his life so much unnecessary like we just got to happy yes it's true it'd be one thing if it no come on man come on what is what's my career you're creating new problems for yourself when you just got out of a massive

44:33come on y'all it's true it's true all right let me tell you about shelburne

Shelburne and the Race Riots

44:37so our ancestor heads there and finds out that the british have prepared nothing there is no infrastructure there is no housing who could have foreseen

44:58the man who has he's in charge of getting the water you know you know is a bureaucrat from boston named benjamin marston so the governor of nova scotia he took that job as like more of a retirement gig so he was like marston i'm gonna empower you to handle all of this oh lord jesus and he's like make sure that nothing goes wrong i don't want any trouble and then he goes off he goes golfing or whatever so benjamin marston he's like okay i got it i'm in charge of this when he sees the white

45:28loyalists who history will again remember as noble and white and brave and white and industrious and white he is underwhelmed here's what he writes in his diary oh this is for you oh can i read one of you it says what your name okay these poor people are like sheep without a shepherd they have no men of abilities among them been there

45:53yeah this is him talking about this is benjamin marston talking about the white loyalists oh wow yeah he's underwhelmed but he's like okay i'm gonna do the best that i can this is what i got i gotta do the best i can with what i got so i picture marston showing up to work and he is greeted by thousands of war weary unhoused ex-americans they're like marston where's our land and our ration our jobs also we want income equality in this colony but there better not be any racial equality uh see who could have foreseen and he wants to be he wants to preach to these folks

46:25marston is like okay first of all good morning next i have three announcements number one we are gonna give you your land but it has to be assigned one at a time so can y'all form like a 10 000 person line rich people to the front obviously oh my god announcement number two we were gonna bring your food rations in by sea from halifax but then american pirates kept raiding our boats so now we got to bring it in by land and that is going to require us to build roads through just miles and miles and miles of forest

46:58it's going to take a really long time i hope you can dye it or whatever and then uh announcement number three when the black loyalists were enslaved they were forced to be carpenters and construction workers and civil engineers a lot of the white guys they're just poor ex-farmers but this is not their skill set this is not their skill set yeah they were like shoemakers and stuff so what i'm scared that they're about to do free labor no well here's it is we're gonna they're trying to build a metropolis

47:29and so marston is like as you can imagine all the business dudes of shelburne have decided to give all the jobs to the black loyalists and they're just going to pay them next to nothing please remember that this is not my fault that's the end of the announcements the white loyalists are furious they're like this sucks marston and it's all your fault and then they open a bunch of taverns and get wasted in them which is why out-of-towners come to call them the dancing beggars of shelburne

47:54so you got all these white people who don't have jobs no job don't want racial equality don't want racial have no skill set they can be they're good farmers but the land's unfarmable yeah so this is the situation david heads to the part of shelburne where black people live which has been creatively called black town i don't know who named it if black people named it that then i'm fine it's like that juice what you mean by that

48:22so black town is also all tense and it sounds like here david george confronts the enormity of the choices that he has made he's separated from his family food is scarce the white loyalists have dreamt up what we will come to call jim crow laws and they're forcing them on the black town residents was this deliverance i'm gonna have you read what happens next all right all right

48:45i began to sing the first night of the camp black people came from far and near to listen i kept on every night in the week then i appointed a meeting for the first lord's day close by the river a great number of white and black people came and i was so overjoyed with having an opportunity once more to preach that i could not speak for tears so he's back in business then my career

49:10he's back then a white guy gives him some land and the community built him a baptist meeting house so now he's got his own black and white people start attending and he starts baptizing folks left and right then the governor hears about david george he shipped rations granted more land and phyllis and the kids are sent from halifax to finally reunite with him and shall burn okay david and david and phyllis have homes constructed on their land for members of their congregation and they appoint church elders the pews sound full david is like we are so back

49:43all right it's summer 1784 our ancestors have been in nova scotia for about a year so this has been the scenario for about a year the british government has got through the winter after winter they made it some of them for different freeze but a lot of them made it most of them made it the british government has failed to live up to its promises for about a year i guess the loyalists could have united to hold their government accountable but instead they turn on each other of course rich versus poor baptist versus methodist unemployed versus employed so

50:18that's white versus black and all the while more and more loyalists keep pouring into shellburn so this is like your classic powder keg situation these are white loyalists coming to these are white and black loyalists just keep coming yeah because this is like the spot people still haven't gotten word that you can get land here it's just not good land okay so one day in july 1784 david george and his congregation meet up at the baptist meeting house we're picturing excitement in the air because today is baptism sunday okay yeah i don't know if it's sunday but like the vibe is that it's like

50:50singing and rejoicing all white you know how it is you do y'all do no okay i don't know what do you wear i want the church on tins like you know what's the same thing that's it i could not have done that

51:04so we're imagining everybody heading on down to the river to witness people be reborn now the gossip around shellburn is that an out-of-town couple named mr and mrs holmes have traveled to the city specifically to be baptized by the famed david george mr and mrs holmes are white that fact might be why a group of white loyalists who are likely out of work and broke also head on down to the river

51:30so everybody's there oh boy i'm picturing the couple david george stepping into the water while phyllis keeps one eye on them the other eye on the white loyalists the vibe is tense david baptizes mr holmes first and everything goes fine no reports of trouble oh then mrs holmes steps up can you read david's account of what happened next mrs holmes's sister laid hold of her hair to keep her from going down into the water okay so this we have to picture white women thrashing about in the river oh yeah

52:03because one doesn't want the other to be baptized by a black man this is probably what this is about and so um somebody calls the law so maybe benjamin marston shows up he's rolling his eyes david says that they're all told like the lady says she wants to get baptized let her get baptized so mrs holmes is baptized and then everyone leaves david george will be asked to give an account of this event later in life and here's what he says happens next y'all go back and forth on this one just like it were

52:32several of the black people had houses upon my lot but 40 or 50 disbanded soldiers came with the tackle of ships and turned my house and every one of their houses quite over the meeting house they would have burned down had not the ringleader of the mob prevented it so these white loyalists have formed a mob and they've destroyed david's home and the homes of those living on his land but not the baptist meeting house and here's how david responds i continued preaching they came one night and stood before the

53:05pulpit and swore how they would treat me if i preached again i stayed and preached the next day they came and beat me with sticks and drove me into the swamp after the mob chases david into the swamp they spread out across black town looting rioting attaching ropes to homes and ripping them down attacking any black loyalist in sight benjamin marston writes about it in his diary riot today the disbanded soldiers have risen against the free negroes to drive them out of town because they labor cheaper than they the

53:38soldiers david george phyllis and the kids escape with the rest of black town to the one place they hope they'll be safe fourish miles and a river away now most of black nova scotia is in birchtown and likely bracing for attack and here's what the mob would have known about their community to get there they would have to make it across a river through a lush green forest and swamps and undoubtedly all along the way there would be black men waiting for them bunch of killers

54:09men like harry washington who'd escaped america's commander-in-chief and fought with the words liberty for slaves written across his chest men who served in colonel tai's elite guerrilla unit and specialized in raids ambushes and assassinations and rumor has it that when the veterans of birchtown left america they kept their guns the rioting continues for 10 days the white loyalists carry out attacks against government officials the wealthy and each other black town is completely destroyed but despite all

54:40that chaos there are no accounts of any successful attacks on birchtown the continent's largest community of free black people survived the shelburne race riots which historians cite as canada's first and one of the continent's earliest recorded race riots wow yeah what do you think about that

55:05that i mean the collapse was we know this obviously because we have the you know the benefit of 300 years but oh my god that was inevitable it felt inevitable almost kind of like the like if it was going to go that way the best case scenario david and his family found refuge and sucker and right it's also the the the white economic anxiety thing is like yeah such a coupon right yes it's huge there's such a like a naivete and hopefulness that comes from david that like it never even occurred to him that

55:41something like this could even happen he's like yes white lady let me put you into the water everything's going to be all right we also got to remember that this is like we know this now we know this like this is the first time that was happening like this is the first time that people are trying to negotiate what it means to be black in interracial spaces yeah in a post-slavery environment like we know this now that this all goes yeah that's not yeah yeah exactly yeah that's right yeah this is because all this is about this is bigger than us yes exactly this is like in the lord's name he's

56:11called to do this yes yeah all right girl i guess okay you're like no you should have known i mean maybe you should have known i don't know all right so we're gonna fast forward eight years

Planning the Exodus to Africa

56:26so now it's 1792 when we meet back up with david george and phyllis and the kids they have left birch town i imagine in a bit of a huff because if you ever been to black church you have to picture him showing up to church after being in the center of the first recorded race riot like in canada on the continent so i'm like they're like david exactly exactly that's exactly what it is it's like oh has the lord told you to invite any other white people i know moses would have been salty moses is so mad oh my god they're like yeah we protected everybody but like

57:01you shouldn't have i told you so we don't know the archive doesn't say anything about that uh but it says that david was able to preach house to house but in the end he and phyllis left birch town because gene can you read his words my own color persecuted me be your own people

57:23so david becomes an itinerant preacher he's traveling from town to town and it's popular it just keeps growing everybody loves him so let's picture him returning home from a preaching trip one day he walks through his front door and a man is standing there in front of the fire phyllis says david we have a visitor this is thomas peters so in the movie he's going to turn around really dramatically he's going to say hello david george i found a new true promised land for our people and i can get us there but i need your help it is time to make one final decision

58:03thomas peters was a rumored he's rumored to be an african prince okay oh okay is this the beginning of that too he's the hotel back then we was kings this is what i did the issue because he's technically he is a descendant from a yoruba tribe and that from like what will eventually become nigeria so he is a nigerian prince who needs help getting back to his kingdom i can't change that he sent an email that's just legitimate but this is before the internet

58:35so there's not an email yeah there's no it's not a scam king he's just a guy who happens to be nigerian who needs help happens to be a prince happens to need help getting back but that's not his fault okay i know i'm always like how do i tell this to black people without losing them completely okay so thomas peters he's rumored to be an african prince who was kidnapped and enslaved in louisiana he fought for the british now he's here in nova scotia he'd been going from town to town looking for work and land and in the process he's gathering news from across black nova scotia he learns that even

59:08though the loyalists were the labor force building the province they were barely making enough money to survive in the winter they were freezing sometimes to death they're starving year-round but their biggest issue is slavery there were enslaved people in nova scotia before the black loyalists arrived the white loyalists did bring 2 000 enslaved people with them and on top of that their former enslavers from america were coming up to nova scotia and contesting their legal right to freedom and they're winning in some cases and then some were just straight up kidnapping the black

59:44loyalists back into slavery our ancestors are being disappeared and they're terrified and determined to stay free so they hatch a plan and they put thomas peters in charge of executing it so here's what he does okay he gets himself on a ship that's sailing to london not all black people know each other but in this case when he gets to london he does run into some black people that he used to know back in america you know how it is and so they're like oh my god hey like what's everybody how's it going he tells them everything they're like oh no bruv because they're turning british now exactly

1:00:21so they're like we got you we're gonna help you out they connect him with leaders of an abolitionist group called the committee for the relief of the black poor this is a group of rich well-meaning white people so thomas tells them everything and they're like you know what we think that black people might always face discrimination in majority white spaces this is like a feeling that we have good guess and so we're wondering if the best shot y'all have is to be in africa where you'll be the majority and we actually sent 600 black folks to a british colony called sierra leone to test this

1:00:52theory but um they all died so somebody said it was because they needed like vaccines and a brokered peace with the native tribes whose land we stole but we think the problem was that they weren't christian enough we almost got it almost so close we want to try the sierra leone thing again but where are we going to find hundreds of super christian black people who are looking to relocate right now and thomas peters he's going to like look at the camera and be like is this real life yeah yeah yeah that's good he'd be like say less yeah that's the camera so now he's back in nova

1:01:26scotia and in the scene he's going to be pitching david george and phyllis on getting on one more boat and traveling to africa everybody's so tired okay he'll be like david phyllis this time is going to be so different the british government the british government is going to give us land rations and freedom from slavery it's going to be illegal there africa was the promised land all along david will you help me get our people on board and i can imagine phyllis interjecting at this point with

1:01:58the question that obviously we all have which is how do we know that the british are going to keep any of these promises and how do we know they're not going to sell us back into slavery and thomas peters will say well because they promised it is time for your final major decision all right you're david george are you getting on another boat to go to africa or are you staying in nova scotia i'm going to ask the the audience first before yeah okay who is staying in nova scotia you're tired you're done okay who is going to africa we're hopeful there's a few of us okay

1:02:39what is that would you say like having like a two-thirds a third i think more people were staying in nova scotia okay yeah i think two-thirds two-thirds of the third it's hot it's hot it's early on it's hot hot i can't start again again this is vaccination so you don't have any natural you don't have any natural immunity yes you don't know look you've already like you don't know how you're going to be greeted when you get there that's true the language it's true it's true so what are you going to do i'm staying in canada you're staying in nova scotia but i know

1:03:12that that david and his beautiful christian heart the lord has called me colonialism told me to get on this boat but you're staying i'm staying all right gene yeah i'm staying too that you're staying another boat trip you're like done no all right okay i mean this is the boat trip it's about weeks it would have taken yeah two or three weeks it's gonna take several weeks yeah also north atlantic down yeah no no no no uptides pirates pirates okay i wish i could catch you and then take you

1:03:43back to america that's true i mean you want to this is too risky for not enough game for me so we're staying in canada we're canadians now nicole all right let me tell you what happens david george and phyllis decide they're in of course david can't be nobody but david david agrees to help with promo and logistics they tell the church influencers the influencers tell their followers everyone's liking everyone's subscribing but then according to david this is

1:04:19for parker the white people of nova scotia were very unwilling that we should go though they had been very cruel to us and treated many of us as bad as though we had been slaves they attempted to persuade us that if we went away we should all be slaves again wait wait wait wait okay do they have that kind of power here's the thing without the skilled cheap labor of the black loyalists it was unsustainable

1:04:49the wealthy landowners will lose their investments towns will fail they'll be bankrupt that's a personal problem it's true come up with some money though i mean but they don't do that instead they concoct elaborate bureaucratic roadblocks and spread conspiracy theories that everyone that goes on this voyage will be sailing back into slavery nevertheless 1196 people board 15 ships and are out sounds like more would have

1:05:19gone if there have been room uh here's a few words about their 1792 voyage from david george founder of one of america's first black churches survivor of one of the continent's earliest recorded race riots and key organizers of one of the world's earliest and largest back to africa expeditions here you go our passage was seven weeks stormy weather it was great joy to see the land and the high mountain in the distance free town where we now live appeared like a cloud to us i preached the first lord's day

1:05:54and it was a blessed time if you ended up at number 10 that's uh africa can you ring your bells make some noise all right so you are sierra leonian and here's your piece of the black loyalist legacy the enslaved people of america turned black loyalists of nova scotia turned nova scotian settlers once they arrived in sierra leone were colonists we honor them but we can't ignore that fact they end up having lots of beef with each other and with the africans and with the british and

1:06:27each other more church drama but they figured out enough to make babies and today their descendants are known as the creole people of sierra leone who count among their number idris elba and the late great chadwick boseman

1:06:43nicole you are so good

1:06:48oh my god

1:06:51thomas peters has a golden statue in his honor as he did end up being their moses who led them out of egypt david george continued on as a preacher community leader and abolitionist activist and even harry washington moved to sierra leone where he ended up taking a revolutionary stand against british influence in their colony

1:07:11okay who ended up at number nine you're in nova scotia

1:07:19i messed up y'all i'm so sorry okay so after the mass exodus of black loyalists development and shellburn stalls and the town does eventually empty out the black loyalist settlements lost half of their community to the sierra leone expedition but those that remain offer refuge to other african americans on the continent and the black loyalist towns become some of the final stops on the underground railroad let's go these are the last ones okay yeah care people okay

1:07:57oh yeah an estimated 50 000 enslaved people in america escaped to canada via the underground railroad but like it was a secret so nobody really knows and then whenever i i've worked with a lot of canadians on this story and they're always like can you not like make a whole thing of the underground railroad i'm sure no one will have a reaction to that because like you guys you're always talking about it right like about how you know the black canadians are descendants of american slavery they escaped via the underground railroad i was like what they're like yeah everybody knows that like north to freedom i was like to philly i thought like really i'm like annie only went to philly but yeah this is like a very kind of known thing in canada but

1:08:35i was like i'm so sorry that i didn't know america it's not my fault that wasn't in our textbooks it wasn't in our textbooks it's not our fault this is like what i'm always surprised that like tamia and deborah cox are canadian are they yes so we're canadian oh my god i was again i was like wait there are black people in canada to me to me it's canadian there's so many and we're cousins exactly who are not caribbeans but they're the descend the the people who are from canada there's like some i can't quote the exact number but a significant portion of them are descendants of american slavery yeah so um today birchtown is home to the black loyalist heritage center who welcomed me into their

1:09:13archives been walking me through this history since 2020 um and graham nickerson is the historian that i've spent the most time working on this with he was raised in shelburne in the 70s and 80s and then he became a historian he discovered through the book of negroes that he is a black loyalist descendant from virginia oh wow my god graham that's amazing yeah we're all family oh my gosh okay did anyone stay in america that's right okay so this is your part of the black loyalist legacy

1:09:44y'all hear this later we gotta do audio thing we gotta explain what's happening one person you can check in with her later so um they're part of the black loyalist legacy it's up for debate there's like a little bit of a point of contention but there is one way that the country may have commemorated them the point of contention is around the war of 1812 it was 20 years after the black loyalists left for sierra leone that conflict saw the u.s and britain face off again enslaved people fight for the british on the promise of freedom again they escaped to canada again only this time

1:10:17they're called the black refugees some scholars think that the americans possibly incensed by yet another betrayal by the people they'd enslaved adopted an anthem with a verse that was a direct threat to the black refugees and the loyalist example that they'd followed i know you're about to do others say we can't know what the line meant maybe the americans had let the escapes and the fighting for the british and all that go everybody say let it go let it go here's the verse no refuge could save the hireling and slave from the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave and the star-spangled banner

1:10:52and triumph doth wave or the land of the free and the home of the brave there's so much more that happened but for now that's the story of the black loyalists and their revolutionary quest for a promised land incredible you can spin a yarn oh my god that's incredible how do y'all feel at the end of that what are you thinking i'm like spent spent i there's a lot of information to process also like overwhelmed and like learn something i never would have known before i like i'm thankful

1:11:27for you for that alone i just want to like the way you have synthesized all of these different things you were probably in the crates like just just in these archives and you managed to pull out all of these like oh there i mean like i feel like our ancestors stories are so exciting it's so exciting to talk about and i mean then i have a team that helps me synthesize because i mean obviously this is originally like 46 pages long we can't talk about all that stuff but it's an incredible history it's incredible i'm excited to be able to celebrate it this year and talk about it and tell everyone

1:11:59thank you for bringing it to us of course i'm so happy to be able to do this with you semi-quincentennial 250th

Credits and Acknowledgments

1:12:05this episode was written research produced and performed by me nicole hill thank you to my play cousins over at code switch that's b.a parker and gene demby if you didn't get enough of their hilarity you really should be listening to their show i feel like you're gonna love it if you like this show you're really really gonna like that one that's code switch on npr as always thank you to my a team that's my day one executive producer adriana ambries and everyone we've got a new member of

1:12:36the team some call him their favorite author others call him a genius i am very proud to call him a friend thank you to executive producer jason reynolds thank you to kyle murdoch for mixing and mastering thank you martina abraham zelunga for story editing thank you chiokiai ensign for research production and voice talent and thank you acelica smith for show art shout out to aaron jacobs and dr benjamin talton and the whole team at the moreland spingarn research center at howard university they also have an excellent podcast on the history of howard called on the yard like and subscribe shout out to my

1:13:11howard volunteers who held me down even though finals were coming up thank you ava jackson zion williams and marta thank you to shane lewis for managing the sound on the day of shane i'm so sorry that i knocked that cord out right before the show started i'm really i'm very sorry thank you for being so chill about it thank you to jim and buski for fact checking a very special thank you to my guide through all this history canada's own graham nickerson black loyalist scholar and public historian we are a completely independent show to learn more about us you can visit our ancestors

1:13:42were messy.com and before i go i'll just say i'm a storyteller by training i really like this curator title so i'm a history curator in part because of quotes like this one from malcolm x history is a people's memory

1:14:12and that's our show this episode was produced for code switch by christina calla it was edited by courtney stein i'm b.a parker hydrate