Waltz for Debby – Bill Evans Trio

Introducing Waltz for Debbie

0:00We'll see you next time.

0:30We brought to you today by Open Studio. Go to OpenStudioJazz.com for your jazz listening. I brought that back, Peter, because we're bringing it back to a little bit of our roots here. Yes. A little bit of a straight up, straight ahead jazz trio album by the name of Waltz for Debbie. Yes. Do not adjust your dials. We are jazz musicians. In case you're new on the You'll Hear Bandwagon, first of all, where have you been? What have you been listening to? Yeah. What are you doing? That's a great Rihanna record. We should get off of this Belevin stuff and go-

1:01My umbrella, Ella, Ella. That one? Okay. Yeah. But this record, I think, it somehow hasn't quite made it onto the Mount Rushmore of crossover for people that like- You know the kind of people that have just a couple of jazz albums? Like, they're very classy people, but they're not like big into jazz. But they would, of course, have kind of blue. This is on the cusp, though. Yeah. And I think, actually, it's in more collections than we think for that. Probably. This is such a great combination of jazz piano trio nerddom, for sure, but also very accessible, pleasant-sounding, dare I even say, and this is not an insult, boring coffeehouse jazz. This is maybe the greatest boring coffeehouse jazz record of all time.

Upcoming mailbag episode

1:43Before we get into the album, though, I just want to let everybody know, we're going to do, in the next couple of weeks here, a Mailbag episode. Yes. So we want to hear from you. You can go to you'llhearit.com and you can leave us a voice message. Speakpipe. Remember those? Speaking of callbacks. You could also send us an email. Yeah. Mailbag at you'llhearit.com is the address. Yeah, you can send a question. You can send a video question. You can send an audio question if you're sophisticated. Or you can just type in your question. Don't send it by the mail, though, because the regular USPS.

Not going to get it. We don't know if it's going to get here. We definitely won't get it. This is such a great album and it's an amazing story, too. This is one of the last albums in this run by this great trio of Bill Evans, Scott LaFaro, and Paul Motion.

2:21And this was recorded June 25th, 1961, at the famed Village Vanguard Club. Yeah. 7th Avenue South, West Village, Greenwich Village, New York City. Yeah. Not controversial to say this is probably the greatest jazz club in the world. Yeah. Right? I think that's pretty much universally- I wouldn't argue with you. Yeah, I don't think anybody would. And I say that it was recorded Sunday, June 25th, 1961, because actually two albums were recorded this day. Sunday at the Village Vanguard, which is not this album, and Waltz for Debbie. So this is a live- It's the same Sunday, though. Same Sunday. Yeah. Same day. Those two now classic albums were recorded live. So this is actually a live album, which you almost wouldn't know by the cover and the title.

3:00Right. And there's even parts, and we're going to get into that as we listen to it. I think it's such a sonically arresting, stunning album, really. I mean, I think this album is- I'm just going to go ahead and throw this out there. I think this is one of the best-sounding jazz records ever recorded, live or otherwise. I couldn't agree more. You know? I couldn't agree more.

Listening to My Foolish Heart

3:19Oh, okay. So I'm not as controversial as I thought. So let's check out the first track. This is the stunningly beautiful, the unbelievably gorgeous, and by the way- One of the great starts to an album, too. You know you and I are both a sucker for the ballad start. Yes. Which takes guts to do. Sue us. We're introspective, romantic gentlemen. Yeah. Typically, when you're putting together a set list for an album, you think, oh, let's hit them with something bouncy, something catchy.

3:43But people like Bill Evans, Miles Davis, Brad Mel, they love to tear your heart out first. This is my Foolish Heart. that first cymbal swell yeah you know and the second ah what a great palm motion choice to delay the snare drum time yeah oh the swirl that comes in

4:19yeah but bill evans gives them a space to make that decision there's lots of space and it's a good decision this is like jazz piano trio breath work you know it is all of them and again a bold choice for an opening track yes i couldn't imagine this record not starting here scott lofaro he was very young on this right he was 25 so stunningly patient and sparse you know

5:04notes at the right place sounds like an og yeah i mean we should we should mention here that scott lofaro would die in a car accident 11 days after this recording so he's 25 years old and this would be the last recording he would make and who knows what would happen because you mentioned the patience yeah his soloing on this album and actually this his whole career but especially with the bill evans trio was like some of the most prodigious space soloing ever yeah and it's it's a big what if in

5:37the music it's like clifford brown and and a few other folks that we've lost way too early where lee morgan what would have happened yeah what would happen um can we go back and just listen i know we've got a great six tracks i'm so like in on the vibe on this but can we listen to the beginning because this is kind of just the very first couple seconds this is a little bit of um we've had a couple records this is a stunningly beautiful start i think such a vibe but it's a little bit of a sloppy start right oh i love which i yeah which as well as this recording as well behaved and quiet

6:07as the audience is you kind of feel the audience but you don't really hear them like some like you know like at the pershing in in chicago with a mod like that that crowd was loud the black hawk yeah you hear a couple little like clearing of throats but not right but it's not like very classic dishes clanging like at the black hawk and especially knowing how close everyone's sitting yeah that first it's a little sloppy right i love that it's not all super but that's so that sets the tone for how they're going to play the rest of the the the set actually well so this

6:38atmosphere that you were mentioning like the bad coffee house jazz the ai jazz this is what that is kind of programmed on you know and it's a real shame because it's it'll never get now to the sort of like the the graininess that is on this trio at all times and yeah because it kind of takes what it perceives maybe as the idiosyncratic elements of this and it's like oh that's part of it like with not hitting that one and then it'll do it at weird times you know it's like three people walking into a room they're not you don't just walk in a line together that's weird you kind of like

7:13you each have your own personality yeah so it's not about bum bum like it's sort of yeah oh man i mean what's the adjective that describes this trio conversational that's what everybody always says it's a conversational style of the trio where yeah each member has equal weight to contribute to and just like a conversation i mean we never talk over each other everybody knows i was gonna say this they don't converse like we do we they listen to each other who are you by the way yeah but it's true like there's gonna be you know not perfection it's not like a scripted you know what i mean like

7:45where it's like a perfect album you ever see bad shakespeare no you ever see bad shakespeare where it's like everybody is so perfect with it that it doesn't feel like it's actually happening right now it's like really good acting where it feels like you're sitting in on a private conversation that's what this trio feels like and it's very informal but because the quality level is so high i think that makes it even more exciting and not jarring that it's not perfect it's like the individual um you know high level of just executing on their instrument i mean bill evans

8:17piano i mean it's you know his touch absolutely scott la faro paul motion with like because the playing is so great they can be a little bit more informal it's not like we have to line right up because we're not there's there's a subtle casual uh confidence that comes across individually but even more so one plus one plus one equals 300 you know the new math that's great jazz musician math what's up everybody adam here and if you're digging all the great music that we listen to on the you'll hear it podcast and you're feeling the itch to dust off that instrument in the corner to

8:51learn some of these songs we've got you covered in my new ongoing course the players club i take songs right from the you'll hear it podcast and teach you how to play them from scratch and you're playing along with recordings of these great songs no matter if you used to play years ago but you want to get back into it or you're starting from scratch we're going to get you playing some of the greatest music ever made join us at the players club click the link in the show notes to learn

Dissecting the title track

9:14more now back to the show next track is the title track and this is it's the hit baby it's the hit this was composed by bill evans for bill evans niece now wait miles davis didn't compose this one too no miles davis did not compose this one you know have you seen the there's a there's a trailer for a bill evans movie coming out right around now actually and there's a great scene where he's telling in the movie where he's telling his niece i wrote a tune for you right and it was his niece debbie and this

9:46is called waltz for debbie again that perfect a lot of brubeck influence on this right for sure the the phrase is it in time is it rubato is it it's loose

10:16and bill evans known for this style where he's he's shadowing everything he's doing with his right hand with these chords in his left not this exact like motion right but he sort of has this implied left hand oh you can hear all that great bass and the harmonic colors are coming from french impressionists

10:53now we're going to ditch three four time into four four and i love that little segue they don't go right into the time accurately after until paul motion comes in but that's a great little connector from the three four like they're kind of like and again it's that that quiet confidence to be like we're gonna get there it's good we're implying the swing now they're all up in it i've always felt like this is this is the melody that like this is the composition that a lot of jazz

11:35musicians wish and think they could have composed oh yeah you know what i mean it's like oh damn why did i think of that i mean i wish bill would have composed more tunes that sound like this honestly this is this is i think his greatest composition he's got a lot a lot of great ones oh

12:09so he's starting to do that shadow thing yeah with his left hand so expressive oh it was chromatic and you can hear what scott lofaro is doing

12:59i mean he's like a he's like a counterpoint yes yeah and even like doing those triplets coming up yeah now he's billing it now he's billing it right i love the composition of this tune too because like the sort of middle section of each uses the same secondary dominant

13:38in fourth patterns but uses different root movements like where it starts once from the seventh of that a to the third of the d to the seventh of the g to the third of the c and the second time it's like the third of the a to the seventh of the d like it flips the bass movement and if you're in a counterpoint nerdy stuff it's so cool yes so cool yeah yeah there's a great bass solo here i love the way they just like at first you're not even like is this a bass solo he's just eases his way in well because he was playing up there yeah that's how he eased himself in

14:13and bill evans and paul motion are like it sounds like oh they're dropping like they're coming down in volume but they're playing especially up for this a lot for a bass solo and it works like conversational just to note here that bill evans is playing rooted voicings the only time it's fully legal in all states really the only time he ever did it

14:46right right that's true it's not a sick yeah yeah and i think that like this even going to the bass solo this sound and i think i'd like maybe it'd be a good time for us to start kind of exploring sonically how this was captured as a live record yeah speak before we get off waltz or debbie you mentioned that it was a hit and that it was very influential a lot of different versions of this this is bill with cannonball

15:18oh yeah yeah yeah great version i'm going to skip cannonball's riverside record it's an incredible version of the song right around this time yeah you ever heard this version a little later a few years later is this natalie cole singing it perhaps what's going on you'll recognize it as soon as you i'll hear it johnny hartman johnny hartman oh i've never heard this but you know it's him come on man so good populated by

15:49yeah these lyrics are actually decent who's the lyrics i'm blanking on who the lyrics are by but they're beautiful yeah and i've got play one more and then i've got a version that you're not familiar with it's an actual edible version but we'll talk about that in a second this is from the bill evans waltz uh sorry the bill evans tony bennett albums oh yeah this is great incredible incredible track oh yeah yeah tony bennett kills this yeah we should actually do this album oh it's a great album

16:20unbelievable great cover one of the most iconic great covers the beards and a big purple bell oh gene lees wrote the lyrics oh okay so the other version i was going to tell you about that i used to enjoy little debbie little bit debbie snacks do you remember those

Exploring Detour Ahead

16:39next up we've got a detour ahead which is shout out hostess which is a tune by lou carter yeah herb ellis and johnny frigo oh this is a this is such a great song i first billy holliday singing this incredible mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm

17:09mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm the lyrics to this are incredible detour ahead this you can hear some clanking yes yes you're in a live setting on this one

17:41i think um bill evans lyricism of his lines even when he's playing chordally it's kind of like that's a big influence on all of us you know back phrasing yes fore phrasing yeah yeah right which gives gives it that song and i think for your casual listener it's so it's such a great thing to enjoy it's just kind of like even if you don't know about art you go to the art museum like damn that's a beautiful painting why i don't know it looks nice

18:12it just sounds nice yes it does sound nice yeah you mentioned the lyrics the lyrics are stunning yeah there's a great billy holiday version there's also this version that i like hmm smooth road oh yeah this is ella but why am i the only one traveling this way how strange

18:43the road to love should be so easy can't you see the detour ahead great tune

The enduring appeal of My Romance

18:53great tune next up this became a standard because of this album and this was a standard back in the day but i think when people think of my romance they think of this particular version aim aim

19:24the voice leading is so incredible yeah have you ever heard of that there's a great book by it's an old book that my high school band director

19:56gave me called the harmony of bill evans by jack riley it's very it's a very like intellectual yeah on bill's harmony and his melody writing yeah but you know his process for learning a tune would be to just first like learn it on the piano in four part chorale voicing with the melody and like he's improvising a hymn essentially with very very simple changes and then build his voicings upon that yeah if you do that it's so funny it's like it's like when you do the

20:27the counterpoint fuchs book or whatever yeah you sound like haydn like you do that you kind of sound like bill evans that's right you don't have probably don't swing like bill evans or have like his technique or anything but you're gonna the voicing starts the voicing start compounding on themselves My Romance is incredible and you know we mentioned Scott LaFaro before Peter and I just want to take time so this is when the bass and the drums come in on My Romance check this out no piano here

21:00we took the piano out

21:10and the crazy shit it's shockingly busy when you hear it like Scott LaFaro that's why he was such a master of like putting that listening as he's playing right he's fitting that in like there shouldn't be room for all that it works so well it does it does man this bass and drums I can tell you from being on that stage for many sets of The Vils of Man and his audience bass and drums

21:42this is exactly what it sounds like on the stage that's why I'm saying today tonight it's gonna sound like this yes but I mean just like this this is and there's been some incredible live at the Vanguard recordings and a lot of people think oh it's an easy it is not an easy place to record well you can screw it up you've got a good one yeah there's a lot of you know it attracts great engineers and great groups but to be able to capture that now some people it's too dry let's be honest some people hear this and they're just like eh it's bland

22:12you know but it's perfect yeah maybe nobody says that nobody says the shape of the room is a wedge triangle shape and it's got low ceilings and there's a subway just to the right and below it that sometimes rumble through and the stage is elevated slightly on one side but then near the drums there's a ramp that goes there's a little side there's seating over there by the drums that's what I'm saying and this sounded like from the piano over by the drums this is a different sound like this sounds like a stage sound I know I told you I told you once I got to see Paul Motion's trio there

22:43and for some reason it wasn't very crowded on like a Monday or Tuesday night or something sat right in front of his kick drum it was unbelievable it sounded just like that it actually sounded just like that Paul Motion from an Armenian family Philadelphia hey yeah there you go here's you were on at one point the Marianne McParlin show on NPR and so was Bill Evans something you and Bill Evans not only have you guys recorded albums we both own pianos too both of those pianos but this is Bill talking about Scott LaFaro it's funny you went into it seemed like you went into

23:14a whole other phase when Eddie came along because Eddie Gomez you had Scotty yeah you know like that was kind of well like you went right along but that must have been a terrible loss at that point it certainly was and some things you think are maybe once in a lifetime and I thought certainly there's no way to compare you know anybody else with Scott it was a once in a lifetime thing but I have had marbles experiences with other bass players

23:44with Eddie certainly yeah he's talking about Eddie Gomez and you can just tell in his voice yeah even this decade later you know when he did this interview that how much Scott LaFaro meant to him this next track the fifth track is going to sound familiar at some other time but if you like on the town New York City yeah hell of a town right if you like Peace Peace another Bill Evans composition two spellings going to sound familiar if you like flamenco sketches that's right Miles Davis it's going to sound familiar Bill loved that intro

24:20he did he loved that major seventh up there Leonard Bernstein loved that flat seventh yeah yeah

24:53gorgeous just gorgeous yeah oh so good so do we have on here I should know this but that's why I show up to the pod sometimes to learn from you and then we get to learn sometimes from the comments thank you so much I know they did like like matinees and I think three sets and I think it was like a four set or five set maybe even day because they used to run a lot of sets I think it was four sets four sets I could be wrong but I think it was four like maybe two in the afternoon and two at night or three it might have been three and I didn't

25:23I want to say it was four but I could be wrong someone knows about that this I never really knew this I probably read it on the liner notes but it was part of the joys of coming up and listening to this music in like the early 80s mid 80s when I was like getting into jazz and I remember having this record the LP and whatever you read on the back is kind of what you read or you're listening but your imagination runs wild because we don't have Wikipedia and all these different things but I always felt like because I know they did a lot of sets like four or five I mean actually the first time I played the ringer we did three sets like a matinee two and sometimes three you know

25:559, 11 and 1am what you know about that and I know because they got two albums from this one day can you imagine people going to see Stumpin at 1am anymore I know even in New York they don't do that anymore I know it's crazy but it always felt like this was taken from a number of different sets you know what I mean I guess it's all the ballads and all the things and I always thought it was placed together in such an interesting and intelligent way as an album it doesn't feel like one set it feels like one endless kind of lazy afternoon at the Vanguard or something but this you're right this is definitely like they were like let's make a rainy day album

26:26let's take all of the the songs that make us feel like right you know sad boy a little sad boy a little sad boy but always with that optimism like with his voice and with the lyricism it's such a it's such a vibe hey everyone taking a break real quick we throw around a lot of music theory terms here in the show if you're googling things like what is a triad hold on I'm googling what is a triad what is a Lydian chord how do you spell Lydian you know how to play that bro good news we have all the answers for you

26:56in the liner notes you'll find the liner notes companion guide with clear simple explanations of the concepts we explore in this episode in the episode description download the liner notes for this episode for free today except for Peter

Closing with Milestones

27:10yes our last track okay exactly that's what got me thinking about it I'm like Milestones is the last track on this album and it is a burner yep lifts you up I love the take on this so much it's so unique from any other version of Milestones I know it's very theatrical it is very theatrical especially for just the piano trio I transcribed a bit

27:41of Bill's solo when I was at LAD from this one actually from a couple of these on this on this album but the bass though yeah and Bill playing everything long with the big chords and it's like a Broadway shout chorus or something you know and motion is like giving the motion whoo

28:13major seven crunchy ass chords that's very like moving into Herbie Hancock yeah very Herbie-ish and then

28:43with him kind of swinging out here but without Lafarbe straight into the walking bass gives it this ethereal kind of and motions in there already you know and I think that allows Bill's solo to evolve in a way you know he's still holding back there oh I see why you transcribed this yeah

29:13isn't it embarrassing when you listen to some of your first transcriptions you're like oh I still do a lot of that stuff yeah man that's a beautiful thing going up I think it's going up a diminished scale honestly I think he just

29:43went up half step above didn't he oh like going up G minor yeah and that diatonic chordal movie that's so Bill right very influential yeah I think this is another thing if we were to isolate the bass you'd be shocked at how much he's playing it's never obtrusive though

30:15the left hand melody man there's a lot of freedom in the way they're playing too as a trio that's what it's all about yeah it's not like solo stars it's like you're easing your way there's a vibe man this is fun let's do some categories okay so how about some scategories scategories let's play a game okay desert island track or apex moment what do you got well I think it's kind of one and the same detour ahead is definitely my desert island track

30:45but this whole record I mean obviously we always say this you can't go wrong I feel like the entry point of detour ahead it's just always so stunning the patience like the apex is actually at the beginning like right when they come in so I'm a little bit cheating but how about you my desert island track is definitely waltz for debbie I think it's the best track on this album are you okay you're out you're out there on that limb you're going out on that limb are you sure you're okay how many times do I tell you I'm a pop guy I like the popular stuff you know what's interesting waltz for

31:15debbie has never been like the be all the be's knees the be all end all for me of bill evans or otherwise I think it's great yeah it's not you know I mean all right okay sorry but my apex moment is is bill evans solo the start of the solo of milestones those like pedals cgc kind of thing I love that so much that's great quibble bits what do you got you know what I don't really have any for this record I would say do you have any hot takes well okay

31:47I'll fold a little bit of a quibble bit and I debated earlier and I decided I wasn't going to say it but then I didn't I want to be you know I want to be honest and just say I do as much as I love the sound on this I do feel like it's a slightly thin piano sound but it's so accurate for that room of other records I've heard from around this time this was not the apex moment for Steinways at the Village Vanguard I do know that for whatever reason like when you listen I think that there's perfection on the drums I think in terms of how it's recorded the sound of the instruments the tuning what Paul

32:18motions I think Scott LaFaro's bass it's one of the greatest like recorded basses and I think the piano is great but it's got a little bit of like thin I hate to even say tinny just little things around the edges that I feel is not quite perfect for a piano sound Bill's just killing it so much you know it's not a problem to save it am I off base on that though maybe my quibble is that and I know this was like the intention of it yeah one more burner I could have gone one more Bill Evans bookend yeah something I love the way it starts though

32:49I do I know that's the thing and that sets the tone it's kind of perfect how it is and it's a short record it's just six tracks accoutrements I'm going to put a seven here I'll go eight the cover's cool but it's about all there is is it better than kind of blue no but it's got some similarities to it no it's not but you're right this will be interesting Snobometer is back on five it's back on five I'm going six it's a little snobbier than that I mean it's the least snobby of Bill Evans

33:19records and Bill Evans may be one of the least snobby jazz musician right maybe maybe you know what's a snobby Bill Evans record it's a great one live at Montreux with the castle on the front that is snobby low on accoutrements although high on I love that live in Argentina even snobbier oh my god look at him he's snobbing it up up next I'm going to put Standards Volume 1 Keith Jarrett we talked about that how it's like this obvious influence but I think if you listen to this album and then you listen to Standards Volume 1 you're having a good Sunday afternoon you are I'm going to go crazy

33:49on this one you're going to be shocked up next Bill Evans live at the Village Vanguard same day that's the dumbest poll you've ever had record on the same day it's obvious I mean on Spotify he's going to play it next anyways unless you stop it man this is awesome okay you know

Listener mail and reviews

34:03what we have here this is going to be fun we talked about at the beginning about how people can send in a question yeah or it's mailbag at you'llhearit.com that's absolutely correct right you can write your question you can send a video you can send it because we're doing a mailbag episode coming up soon yeah you can go to you'llhearit.com and leave us a voice message or you can send your email to us at mailbag at you'llhearit.com yeah and we also are still collecting ratings and reviews and we always love to read these and this one I'm going to read this one here we don't have a name on it though so I think though it may be your mother or my mother

34:33so if it sounds like Mrs. Maness or Mrs. Martin both avid listeners or as we call them mom and mom absolutely wonderful I love this pod and am overwhelmed as a new listener this couldn't be them they're not new listeners not even listening for a decade at the deep reservoir incredible topics you cover in many years of episodes I can't say enough about how much you're doing for the jazz and music in general community with open studio that was a hanging participle thank you so much and please keep this train going choo choo

35:04I know this wasn't my mom because she didn't mention to stop cussing which my mom definitely would have said yeah well we have another one for that but we're not going to read it until next time you'll hear it