21.20: Sequencing from Mega to Micro

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Writing Excuses Introduction

2:28slash remove. This episode of Writing Excuses has been brought to you by our listeners, patrons, and friends. If you would like to learn how to support this podcast, visit www.patreon.com slash writingexcuses. Season 21, episode 20. This is Writing Excuses. Sequencing from mega to micro. Tools, not rules. For writers, by writers. I'm Mary Robinette. I'm Dong Wan. I'm Erin. And I'm Howard.

Sequencing Discussion

3:00And today we are talking about sequencing and why we put things in the order that we do. And I thought I would actually start by, it's funny, the first thing I thought of when I was thinking about how to lead off this episode was our actual tagline that we've changed because we could say for writers, by writers, tools, not rules, or by writers, for writers, rules that are bad and tools that are good. But instead we say tools, not rules, for writers, by writers, because I think we

3:31just think it sounds better. Yeah. And so one of the things I'm wondering about sequencing is how much of it do you think is like things we absolutely like can figure out by like dialing them up and having rules? And how much of it do you think is like some sort of intrinsic thing that we know, like having rhythm? A thing that I think about a lot, I mean, I do think the rhythm is really important, right? And I think we're going to dive into that in even more detail in the next episode. But I do think, you know,

4:03part of why that tagline works so well is the rhythmic beat of it. But then there's also a narrowing funnel of the concept, you know, as you start from the broad statement of why do we do this show, right? What's our core principle? And, you know, we worked a lot on this tagline and we did a whole exercise last year of all of us trying to come up with what is the show's mission statement at this point, right? Like writing series has been around for a while. Sorry. I don't know why we're doing a peek behind the curtain, but we are right now. And trying to drill down into what is our goal with

4:36this show? And then Tools Not Rules just really emerged as a core principle for us, right? Of this thing of we're not trying to be prescriptive about writing. We want to give you a deep understanding of as many different aspects of writing as we can, so that when you're confronted with the situation, you can, you have some things to reach for, right? So to start with the broadest aspect of what we do and then narrow down even further into why you and then why us, right? So there is like this mega to

5:11micro to borrow the show's title in the tagline itself, which I think is a really good microcosm of the macro thing we're talking about. To speak more specifically to the question, you know, how much of it is deliberate? How much of it is instinctive? The more you know about the things you do, the more deliberate it becomes. A great example of this is the order of adjectives in the English language.

5:41Most English speakers don't even think about it. But if you order adjectives weirdly in a sentence, English speakers will be like, wait, what? You did that wrong. We don't know what the rule is, but there appears to be a rule. But once you think about it, you know, once you, once you really look at it, you realize, oh, there are, there, and I can't recite the rule. All I can remember is my favorite, uh, social media post about it, which was from the fake AP style book, which said, you know, the order of adjectives is

6:16increasing order of awesomeness. The blue Italian rocket propelled monkey piloted motorcycle is the order is the correct order of adjectives. And I loved that because it made me laugh, but I also loved it because it made me think about a thing that I hadn't thought about before in a way that forced me to create a rule for it. Uh, so I could be more deliberate about a way I was writing. This is, uh, I think this is one of the really interesting things that a lot of times there are

6:51rules that we have internalized and we don't know. And this is a good example. You can go look this up. I also don't remember it, but I remember being blown away because it was like, oh, oh yeah, there actually is a thing with this, but it's not just that like you've been honing your taste your entire life as a reader. So there are, there are things that, you know, in intuitively about sequencing that, that you wouldn't be able to articulate. For me, the things are when it's not working. That's when I kind of

7:21step back and I start thinking about, okay, well, why isn't this working? What are the rules, or the tools that I have? Um, so there is the, the, the large to narrow, you know, but sometimes you do want to invert that. Um, and, and when you do, you want to do it with deliberation while understanding like what it does. So if you start very broad and you funnel down, you're bringing the audience's attention into a single point. And then that point takes on a lot of emphasis, but sometimes

7:52you start with an important point and then you broaden outward in order to take them out into the larger world. So it's, it's a lot about where you're trying to direct the, the reader's attention. And, you know, sometimes it's broad to narrow and sometimes it's the other way around. Sometimes it's the thing we talk about the recency primacy effect, and sometimes it's cause and effect. Well, there's also an emotional quotient to it too, right? And there's this really important principle of architecture popularized by Frank Lloyd Wright. That's about compression and

8:24expansion, right? So if you walk into a Frank Lloyd Wright house, you generally walk into what to modern, uh, audiences feels like a very compacted space. The, the hallways tend to be quite short. They're not that wide. Um, there's not a lot of space to put stuff in them. And then you, what you do is you walk through that and then you walk into a large open space, right? The, we think of open concept when it comes to Frank Lloyd Wright, but really there's a lot of compression and then that expansion so that then the living space feels like this huge airy space, even when by square footage,

8:58it may not actually be that big. Right. And then, you know, part of the sin of the McMansion is it's just all open space. You walk into a huge foyer, you walk into a huge kitchen, you walk into it. And so everything feels the same, right? You get this, I'm back to my risotto issue here, but everything, there's no differentiation from room to room. And so without that compression expansion, you don't have the emotional either relief of, ah, I'm now in a great space. I'm now in this next

9:28emotional sort of scene as you go from narrow to broad, or you don't have the sense of I'm leaving a space and we're focusing down back onto a single thing. And then I'm getting set for the next expansion. Right. So that's sort of like funneling in and out of the compression expansion is something I think about in fiction as being very important for giving the differentiation between scenes and then therefore pacing as you're pulling people through. Yeah. It's interesting. It was like, they're, they're both directional. Like they both have, feel like they have some sort of like

10:01intentionality, you know, you're going from one to the other. I often think about like the broad to small. I think it's why the adjectives getting increasingly cool works because each one, we love details, I think as humans. And so each detail, usually each cool thing is more specific than the last cool thing. Like the coolest thing about this is that there's only so many monkey propelled, what was it? Rocket launchers? Rocket propelled monkey piloted motorcycle. Yes. You know what I mean? So it's like, there might be many rocket propelled,

10:32but you know, only so many are going to be monkey operated. So each one, you know, gets more and more specific. I really like the, the, the broadening because I feel like what it does is what a camera does a lot of times when it pulls back on a scene, which is you assume a certain amount of context when you give a specific detail. And when you broaden out and it turns out that that context is different than you anticipated, it gives you a little bit of shock. And it's like, oh wow, I never would have thought that this is where this happened or this is where this person

11:05was. You know, one of the things that we talked about, oh gee, a decade ago in writing excuses is, uh, uh, sort of a, a pyramid theory of giving information in a scene in terms of description where you begin with lots of description as you're setting things up with less and less as you get to the top of the pyramid. Um, the reason being, uh, I mean, twofold one, uh, it's, it sort of accelerates

11:36your pace through the scene or through the chapter. Um, and, and second, it draws focus away from the details and toward whatever the specific, specific events are. Um, and again, this isn't, this isn't a rule. It's just a way to think about when to use description and when not to use description. Well, it's, it's also a more basic mechanical thing, which is at the beginning of the scene,

12:10the audience knows less about the space, um, and less about the people at the beginning of a book. So that's one of the reasons that the ends of books are shorter than the beginnings is that they often just take less description because we've already done that load bearing work for the reader. Um, which is again, going back to the, the sequence question, it's like, when do you do these things and, and why, why, and how do you make those decisions? Yeah. We've talked a little bit about the broadening, like why might you broaden? Why might you narrow in? But Mary Robinette, you, uh,

12:41actually mentioned two others cause and effect, and I can't remember the last one. Uh, recency primacy. Recency primacy. Like why is there a reason that you would use, I mean, cause and effect feels like this is something we generally understand. Like first you say why something is happening and then what, what occurs, you know, after it has happened, but like, why would you focus on that as opposed to broad and narrow? So a lot of times what we're dealing with is, um, an order of information thing where the reader isn't getting information at the time

13:12they need it. And even if it's just in a single sentence, it can cause a little bit of confusion. So I just, uh, did an exercise with the people in the writing excuses cruise. Um, at the time that we are recording this, we have just gotten off the cruise ship. Um, and, uh, and I showed them a piece of fiction that I had written in high school and it's not good. It's not terrible, but it's not, it's not good. And one of the sentences in it is something like, um, uh, agony seared her hand

13:45as the wood slapped into it. And like, just flipping that, like you, you know that she's experiencing pain, but you don't know why yet. And just flipping it as the wood slapped into it, her, you know, agony seared her hand. You understand there's a, there's a stronger connection. There are times when you want to invert that because you want the surprise. Like if someone opens a door and gasps, you don't yet know why they've gasped. And so delaying that

14:15moment gives the reader the same surprise that the character has. And so that you are like, I'm gasping too. Why am I startled? And, and so you, you, you get to make those decisions about when you want the reader to have the same information at the same time the character does, when you want them to experience the cause and then the effect, and when you want them to be surprised and experience the effect and then the cause. For instance, one of the effects of this

14:46is that we should probably take a break.

Break and Cruise Announcement

14:49What? What's the cause? No, I'm just kidding. Time.

14:56The cruise ship sailing us to Alaska this summer is completely sold out, except for the cabins we've reserved for writing excuses attendees. These cabins are only available until June 4th. On June 4th, any cabins not reserved by writing excuses attendees will revert to the cruise line and will be sold to the general public. If you want to join the writing excuses hosts and a hundred new friends on our final annual cruise, as we read, write, critique, and learn while reveling in

15:30the stunning scenery, visit writingexcuses.com slash retreats. Don't delay. We're holding the very last unreserved cabins on the entire ship, and they will not stay unreserved for very long. Again, that's writingexcuses.com slash retreats.

World Building and Nebula Awards

15:48For many writers, world building is also an opportunity for world breaking, a shattering of existing norms and assumptions of what is and isn't possible. If you've read the work of N.K. Jemisin, author of the Broken Earth Trilogy and 42nd Grand Master for the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers Association, you'll know what I mean. This June in Chicago, you can meet N.K. Jemisin yourself and attend a masterclass on world building and world breaking at SIFWA's 61st Annual Nebula Awards Conference. I'll be there too, along with other powerhouses

16:24in science fiction, fantasy, and related genres. This year, for the first time ever, SIFWA's Nebula Awards include top prizes for poetry and comics. We are excited to welcome these mediums into the fold. The Nebula Awards Conference is an annual opportunity to gather as professional and professionalizing writers. Have you bought your tickets yet to join the conversation in person or online, and to celebrate our latest stars at the Nebula Awards Banquet? If you're in Chicago

16:54already, you can also freely attend our mass autographing session on Friday, June 5th. All details are available on sfwa.org. So tell your friends, nudge your fellow creators, and reach out to fans. Let's break down some old worlds and build new ones together in Chicago.

Masterclass and Learning

17:15One of the challenges of writing is finding a subject matter expert, right? Particularly when you are still in the early part of your career. So I'm going to give you a hack. Masterclass. For instance, Chris Hadfield's course on space exploration feels very much like sitting down across from him. And I've met him. His class covers training, Mars in-situ resource management, what it's like to launch. It's pretty great. I was also reassured hearing him talk about his first

17:49day in the office as an astronaut candidate, aka ASCAN, because he had imposter syndrome too. So it's not something that just hits writers. Apparently it hits astronauts. And one of the great things about Masterclass is that it fits into real life. Audio modes, short lessons, on your phone or TV. You don't have to carve out hours. You just have to start.

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18:45works. Three in four members feel inspired every time they watch. 83% have applied something they've learned to their real lives. It's no risk. Every new membership comes with a 30 day money back guarantee. So if you're trying to research something and don't know a subject matter expert to reach out to, you can always take a class. Masterclass keeps adding new classes. So there's never been a better time to get in. Right now, as a listener of this show, you get at least 15% off any annual membership

19:18at masterclass.com slash excuses. That's 15% off at masterclass.com slash excuses. Go learn about space from Chris Hadfield or apply the principles of improv to your life with Amy Poehler. Head to masterclass.com slash excuses to see the latest offer. Thanks to HomeServe for sponsoring this episode. Sandra and I have been homeowners for 30 years and it's been wonderful. Of course, it's our biggest investment and we have to literally live inside it without breaking it.

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21:31book your personalized experience. Center Med Spa, where beauty and wellness begins with you. They call it the best four days in gaming, and I am disinclined to argue. Gen Con Indie is my favorite convention. There's a symposium for writers, and it might well be the best four days in writing. Will you be there? I will, as will Mary Robinette, Aaron, Dan, and Sandra. As you're putting together your Gen Con schedule, be sure to look us up by name so you can sign up

22:01for our events. There will be a Writing Excuses podcast Q&A session, a Thursday night networking party hosted by Writing Excuses, and a session with Howard Taylor, that's me, and Maurice Broaddus called A Conversation with No Chaperones. I can't believe they're letting us do that one. You can also visit me and Sandra, along with Jim Zub and Stacey King, at booth 1349 in the exhibit hall. Along with our usual racks of merchandise, we will have some Writing Excuses loot.

22:32Gen Con Indie runs from July 30th through August 2nd in Indianapolis, Indiana. You can buy a membership right now, and then you can start creating your wishlist for panels, workshops, and other events. On May 17th, event registration goes live, and your wishlist will have you pre-registered for things. Get your tickets today and reserve your spot. We would be delighted to see you at Gen Con. All right, now that we are back from our break, because time is a straight

23:05line most of the time, I'm curious about talking about this on like a little bit more of a micro level, because I think a lot of times where I like to play around with it is in actually sequencing words within sentences. Kind of like thinking about like the order of adjectives and playing with surprise. I think one of the most fun things about talking about sequencing is that once you understand that there's a way that a lot of times people expect sequencing cause and then effect, a lot of times broad and then narrow, if you play with it, you get the surprise. You get something

23:37really interesting. Something that I like to do a lot of times with sentences is think about a noun that I would put later in the sentence and turn it into an adjective that modifies the thing. So instead of saying, um, her voice, which, you know, had been rough, roughened from too many years of whiskey, I will say her whiskey voice, you know, or, you know, her whiskey rough voice, which is a way to give the same information, but because it moves it over for some reason, it feels like it's more

24:08laden with meaning. And also as a short story writer, I've saved three to four words that I can then bank for later in the story when I truly need them. But you're almost using surprise in a certain way. You know what I mean? By that reordering, you're like shifting expectation, but still giving us the information, you know? A really useful tool for this, uh, study garden path sentences. Garden path sentences are sentences where you begin reading the sentence and it is leading you to a place

24:42where the rest of the sentence is not going. A classic example, the old crew, the boat.

24:51Oh, the old, and crew is a verb, not the old crew. Uh, it is the old are crewing the boat. Understanding the principle of a garden path sentence, one, helps you to not write them accidentally, and helps you to create garden path-ish things where you send the reader down a garden path you want them on in order to button hook them into something else.

25:23There's a, there's a good example of this that I was already thinking about. So thank you for queuing this up for me. Um, Douglas Adams uses this a lot. Um, the ships hung in the air exactly the way bricks don't. Like you are not expecting, you're not expecting that turn, but sequencing wise, he's putting the surprise at the end. If, if it had been, bricks don't hang in the air the way these ships did. Like there's, that is, that is a clunker of a sentence because, you know, you're not,

25:55there's so many reasons that that doesn't make, that doesn't work, but it does show you how important order is in sequence because it's all the same content. It's just entirely wrong because the, the important, the fun thing, the surprise, uh, comes at the beginning. Well, I think one thing that is also really important at line level or basically at any level is mirroring, right? And repetition, right? Um, I know that when I write, especially nonfiction,

26:25I tend to over rely on repetition, but I do think it's really useful to set up a pattern and break it. Right. And that's something that you can do on a structural level in a sentence of be giving us this like list of things through repetition of like, I walked a long way. I don't know. I can't think of a good example off the top of my head. I'm sorry. But you know, like I think having a thing where you have one, one beat, second beat, and then the third beat, you break the pattern can set up that surprise in terms of, you know, using simple treks like rule of three, but doing it in a very deliberate structural way.

26:59Something that's really cool about patterning too, is like you're creating your own sequencing rules. You're telling people, okay, we are in a new, like in this particular set of sentences, you're going to get this word over and over again. And each time it's going to be slightly different because a lot of times when we use repetition, we might use the same word, but like something different is on the other end of the verb, or we might use like the same general sentence construction, but the length changes. And so each time you're getting something slightly different, and then just as you teach us the sequence, you rip it out from under us,

27:33which is great. It's sort of like a pact with the reader. And I feel like a lot of sequencing is like you making promises to the reader about the way that they will be experiencing the story and then being like, haha, no, or yes. And the using that to actually not control reader emotion, but to take readers on a journey that makes things not feel flat. Yeah. One thing I also think about with this is the idea of readability, right? There's a thing in commercial fiction that we talk about in terms of windowpane prose, right? Prose that is invisible

28:04in a certain way, because it's so readable and you, you just read very quickly and can absorb very quickly. And so something like a garden path sentence is sort of very anti-readability. You have to slow down and think about it. And you're sort of putting the brakes on your reader as they're moving through it. And they have to like stop and parse what you're saying versus sometimes doing something that is, you know, maximizing that speed of reading can be a really effective technique. And there's just as much technique that goes into doing that as there is writing the beautifully

28:37crafted sentence. I just want to flag for readers that windowpane or transparent prose is a fashion-based thing because Jane Austen was writing windowpane prose in her day. Yes. A hundred percent. So, so when you're thinking about these things, like don't think, do I want to write transparent prose or not? Think about where am I putting my embellishments and why? Because the transparent prose, the windowpane prose, if you're writing stuff that feels natural to you, you're probably writing something that is currently fashionable in some ways. Yes, exactly. And one thing, one really useful thing for getting that sort of like quicker

29:12comprehension and building sort of towards that speed of reading for your audience is honestly using like high school composition essay techniques, right? Of there's a thing I think about a lot of tell someone the thing you're going to tell them, then tell it to them and then tell them what you just told them, right? This is really useful for an action scene, for example, where you kind of frame it up in a way of here's the thing that's about to happen. And then you go through what happened and then you tell them what happened at the end. When I, a lot of times

29:44I find when reading a scene, if you, they don't do that, I will not be quite sure what I'm supposed to take away from the scene or what to expect going into the scene. And so having that sort of like intro and conclusion sort of sentence or like hint can be incredibly helpful at a scene level and at a sentence level in terms of how am I supposed to ingest this? So this goes back to the question of repetition and, and cause and effect and, and sequencing. And recency. And recency. And everything. And everything. But, but specifically that, that you don't want to do that all the time.

30:19You want to do that for the important things. And what that does, the repetition causes people to pay attention to it. We typically notice repetition because we are wired as animals to notice things that are important and repetition is unnatural. So you hear repetition when in the wild, when something is walking towards you, potential predator, uh, you hear it when it's water dripping. And that's, that's an important piece of information. So once you've identified that information,

30:50then if it's not important to you, then you discard it. You're like, okay, I can tune the repetition out. So when you're using repetition in fiction, you want to make sure that you're using it to catch the reader's attention and that you're not doing it accidentally. And what Dong Wan is talking about with this, you tell them, you tell them again, and then you tell them what you told them. That is a form of repetition to draw the reader's attention to it. But if it's not an important thing, like again, on this workshop, I was showing them some of my, uh, earlier prose. And I, I had the, this thing where

31:26I described the same action three different times. And it was, it, I did this multiple times in a scene, but only one of the actions that I was describing was plot relevant. So as someone who was editing it as an adult, I took out the other two repetitions where I was describing the same motion multiple times, because what that was, was me figuring out the right way to describe it. Yeah. I think there is the repetition aspect. Um, there's also a fractal aspect of it too,

31:58right? Sort of at an individual moment level, there is that tell them, tell them again, and then tell them what happened. But then there's also sort of the scene level and then literally the book level, right? The, the introductory scene of a book, that opening scene really should mirror the structure and sort of genre flow, uh, not should, but can in a useful way mirror the structure and genre and, and, you know, beats of the book. And then your conclusion sort of

32:29tells us what are we taking away from this, right? So in that sort of like fractal microcosm, macrocosm thing, you can sometimes either show in micro what the book will be. Um, you know, one great example, I think about this is the opening of the haunting of Hill house, which has this sort of long rambling sentence at the beginning that really encapsulates the entire experience of reading this book. Right. And it sets you up so well, both plot wise and linguistically for what you're in for in this very specific way of like, here, we're going to do, be doing some weird psychological stuff.

33:02Uh, here is some, you know, big statements about the world. Here's a description of a very normal house. The house is really scary, right? Like that's sort of the, the, the beats of that opening line. And then that's the beats of the book, right? So this sort of fractal microcosm, macrocosm kind of thing can really play into a version of this mirroring repetition and all these different aspects. And I think one of the reasons that this works, and this goes back to the, the sequencing thing, uh, is that recency by recency primacy effect, because, um, we, we like symmetry humans

33:37respond really, really well to it. So recency primacy effect, uh, we've been tossing this word a lot around in this episode and, uh, and we do talk about it in other episodes, but I'll redefine it here. It is that you notice the first thing and the last thing, and those, those stick the most. So when you've got this, this outer frame of the, on this, this fractal macrocosm, um, you're completing a circuit because the recency and the primacy are both the same thing. And so that completes the circuit and it, it enhances them. And you can do that on a scene level. You can do

34:11that on a sentence level or a paragraph level where you hit something a little bit harder at the beginning and the end. Like, um, I I've used this example when, um, in, in other episodes, uh, the difference between, um, and it's a subtle difference. Um, the man walked into the room, there was a blonde in the chair versus the man walked into the room and the chair was a blonde, but then I can complete this by doing, by, by lingering on that. The man walked into the room,

34:42there was a blonde in the chair. She had hair to the base of her spine and legs didn't, that wouldn't stop. So I'm, I'm hitting the blonde and the, the hair, like I'm, I'm hitting the blonde twice in that. Yeah. No, um, I see your face, Aaron. You're talking about, um, go ahead and hit, hit what you want. You're right. I should have just stuck with, uh, with the metaphor from the previous one of chasing, chasing balls. Um, but, uh, but the point of that is that like, I can do the same thing with,

35:14you know, the man walked into the room in the chair was a blonde. The chair was a fine bit hardwood, probably from the early 1800s. And at that point, the woman in the chair becomes unimportant. Um, the chair is the important thing because of this, this balance. And it's, it is this, um, it's a question of sequence. You know, one thing to then is standing out to me as we talk about this is a lot of things we're talking about are concepts from cognitive psychology, right? You know, there's the idea

35:45of the recency bias. You're more biased to say your favorite thing was something that you saw recently, right? There's the framing bias, which is the first person who states like the frame of the thing tends to define the field of play. This is a tool in negotiation where you say this is worth a million dollars. And then someone now can't be like, this is worth $20, right? Because you framed it in a certain way. And so I think the microcosm macrocosm thing that I'm talking about is a framing thing and a recency thing, right? So you can use your understanding of the way people's brains work

36:17and how we process information as these narrative, like, I hesitate to call them hacks, but you're also kind of hacking somebody's brain. These are tools and techniques to get information across in really efficient ways that are very impactful and meaningful. One of my favorite tools, and it shortcuts all of the thinking about why and how and goes straight to the mechanics, is turn the paragraph upside down. Just reverse the information in the paragraph and see if it works

36:53better. There are so many paragraphs that I've written where I look at it and I think, man, what is wrong with it? Wait, Howard, you have a tool for this. Turn it upside down. And I'll just reverse the order of information and realize, oh, now it's right. Do I know why it's right? No, but I know that tool worked. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. One more tool before we wrap up here is like, I also think that it's some of this stuff sounds really complicated. But as we've been talking, one thing I've been thinking a lot

37:24about is gossip and also like how we convey information. People that tell someone, tell them again and then, you know, tell them that you told them is also like, oh, my God, I hate John so much. OK, so today he like came and he poured water in the copier and it was horrible. And he, you know, burned my house down also. And that is why I will never speak to him again. And it's like we tend to do this. This is how we convey information. And a lot of it is because a lot of what we understand about writing comes from oral. Like at some point you had to catch someone's attention verbally and

38:00say like, hey, this is why you should pay attention to what's going on. OK, now I'm going to explain it. And like, don't forget, this is the thing that I just told you, because if you're listening to somebody say something, you can't hold. There's only so much you can hold in your head about like what they just said. And so the thing that caught your attention first and the thing that they left with are the things that you're going to take with you. You got to tell me how I feel about the person before you tell me the story. Right. Exactly. Because if this story is about, oh, it's so sad that my sister-in-law, you know, like had to go through all these terrible things. Or if this story

38:31is I hate my sister-in-law. Here's all the things that she did. Those are can't have the same facts, but be very different interpretations of story. Right. So if you want to like learn a lot about storytelling, honestly, go listen to the podcast Normal Gossip, which is one of my favorite things in life. And it just the rhythm of how they tell stories is so important. And you can learn so much from that. Yeah. In fact, I was going to think like if I'm in love with John, I'm like, John burned my house down. That's a very different story. Well, I think it's it's the it's a little bit of the cause

39:02and effect again. It's like you don't want to give someone an answer before you before the question exists. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And with that, we are going this is jumbo size. We are going to wrap up with homework. And this homework is worth one million dollars. It's only worth 20 bucks, guys. It's only worth 20 bucks. I'm very confused by this framing. No. All right. So take something this homework is probably unsurprising, but take something either that you've written or something

39:33interesting that you've heard recently, something somebody has told you that you're like, wow, what a juicy story. And go ahead and write it down in the order that you currently have it or the order that you received it. And then I want you to rewrite it two ways. One is to take Howard's beautiful example that he stole from my brain, which is to do it upside down, do it backwards, figure out how that would work. And then I want you to find some very unexpected way to sequence it that feels wrong

40:05to you. What is the worst way you could possibly sequence this information? Write it that way and I don't know, see what happens. You are out of excuses. Now go write.

40:18Writing Excuses has been brought to you by our listeners, patrons and friends. For this episode, your hosts were Mary Robinette Kowal, Dong Wan Song, Aaron Roberts and Howard Taylor. This episode was engineered by Marshall Carr Jr., mastered by Alex Jackson and produced by Emma Reynolds. For more information, visit writingexcuses.com. Discover the ultimate escape at Center Med Spa, Chattanooga's exclusive day spa retreat. At Center Med Spa, our focus is to enhance your self-care journey.

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