
Show notes
Michael Rosen goes on an alphabetical odyssey with linguist Dr Danny Bate, author of the book 'Why Q needs U: A History of Our Letters and how We Use Them'. From A through to Z, where did all our letters come from, and how have they changed over time? Produced in partnership with the Open University by Becky Ripley.
Highlighted moments
“The legs of our A are the horns of an ox.”
“in their language, in Etruscan speech, there's no G, but there is a K. And so through this Etruscan prism, the letter gamma becomes the letter K for the Romans, with a K sound.”
“if you undo the great vowel shift, if you take it back to how we think someone's pronouncing it in, say, the days of Geoffrey Chaucer, then it's going to be something like A, B, C, D, E, which, I don't know about you, sounds pretty German to me.”
“the Romans just didn't leave us enough letters. We get our alphabet from them, and sounds like CH and SH and TH, they're not part of Roman speech. They're not there, so they're not in their alphabet.”
Transcript
Learning Alphabet
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2:06Every time I got stuck, he sent me back to the beginning because he said that I had to know it in one long line. From 1808 onwards, many children learnt the alphabet like this. A was an apple pie. B bit it. C cut it. D dealt it. E eat it. Though that was probably pronounced eight. F fought for it. G got it. H had it. I inspected it. J jumped for it. K kept it. L longed for it. M mourned for it. N nodded at it. O opened it. P peeped in it.
2:36Q quartered it. R ran for it. S stole it. T took it. U upset it. V viewed it. W wanted it. X, Y, Z and ampersand all wished for a piece in hand.
Alphabet History
2:49Well, as I sat up in my bed learning the alphabet, I wasn't aware of where it came from and how we use it. But today we're going to drill into it all down the A to Z in a sort of alphabetical odyssey to understand how these letters came to be. And my guest today has written a book about it. It's called YQ Needs You. And he's linguist Dr Danny Bate. Welcome to the programme, Danny. Hello, Michael. Now, before we get to some of the individual letters, first of all, let's say it's not the alphabet, is it? There are many alphabets.
3:21Does that mean that many people in history have tried to work out different ways of representing the sounds we make when we speak? Absolutely. Yeah. We are talking about the alphabet as maybe one tradition. I like to think of it as, say, like a tree that sprung from a single root. And it's now a ginormous tree, but it's not the only tree in the garden. There are other writing systems, some of which have completely independent origins. Some of these world writing systems try to write down sound. Korean, for example, which is completely independent.
3:51Then there are those that try to write down meanings as well as sound. So, for example, the ginormous Chinese tradition of writing. So when we're talking about the alphabet, we're really looking at a sort of one single tradition. And within that big tree, English, it's just a little twig. And some people have got alphabets based on syllables, haven't they? Indeed. Absolutely. So that's one of the ways of writing down Japanese. There's things within the realm of Europe that has done the same thing. The fantastic Linear B writing system, first used to write down ancient Greek, used syllables,
4:23whereas today Greek is written alphabetically, just sounds. So we've got these letters. They're really only a rough guide to the stream of sounds that come out of our mouths. It's fairly rough and ready, isn't it? Yes, I would say so. I think if you were to visit a university in their phonetics department, you speak to people who know speech, and they were to show you what they are recording and writing down, it would look incomprehensible because we are just doing incredible things with our heads and our bodies all the time. And so writing, if you were to write all of that down, would just be hard to read, perhaps too specific to an individual.
4:59It wouldn't capture a language in general because we all sound different. So the alphabet is a sort of rough approximation. But it works, more or less. Let's just talk about some of the things that the alphabet leaves out for a moment. So it can't do speed unless you squash all the letters up, like in an E.E. Cummings poem. And it can't do going slow because you'd then have to spread it all out. But we've got ways of making things big. We've got capital letters. We've got exclamation marks. So we can play around with the alphabetic principle, can't we? Absolutely. Yeah, I love that.
5:30And it's true that we're just so literate nowadays that we can do all these creative things that perhaps ancient users of the alphabet wouldn't have thought of. The thought crossed my mind the other day as to when did we start thinking of capital letters, all caps, as signifying greater volume, as shouting. Because that's pretty natural nowadays. But that hasn't been around for a very long time. All right. Well, let's go back to our A to Z, though. Where did it all begin? Who invented it and when? And take us back to the beginning.
Ancient Egypt
5:59OK.
Ancient Egypt
5:59For the where, we're talking ancient Egypt. I like to use the term the Egyptosphere. So this is basically northeast Africa and a little bit of the Middle East, where ancient Egypt is powerful and dominant and mighty. And Egyptians are writing during this time in hieroglyphs, these incredibly detailed little symbols. However... And each symbol means a word? Ew, big question. Hieroglyphs are extremely complex and sophisticated. By the time our alphabet is born, hieroglyphs as a system are already about a thousand years old.
6:32So an individual hieroglyph could stand for a word, a concept, a thing. It could also stand for a single sound or two sounds or three sounds. It could also stand for a sort of signpost symbol that tells you about the thing that it's next to, that it's like a man, for example, or a woman or a god. So hieroglyphs are complex, safe to say. They're already very sophisticated. And in the shadow of this already ancient system, our alphabet is born. By taking all that complexity and all those well-established written symbols and streamlining them according to a new radical principle.
7:08As to who did this, we know a little bit about them. We know maybe what they were doing, but we don't have any names, for example. The geniuses behind our alphabet are lost to history. And when are we talking about? We're talking about the second millennium BCE. So what people refer to as the Middle Kingdom of ancient Egypt. So 4,000 years ago, people are reducing, if that's the right word, the hieroglyphic system to a set of signs that mean a sound. Exactly. Yeah. Now it's a radical system.
7:39One sign for one sound. Hmm. And actually, while we're on this, why are we calling it the alphabet? To me, I just hear alpha, beta. It's only two letters. I really like that. You know, I'd never really thought about that before. I suppose for this new system to catch on, they had to make a cut somewhere. They couldn't just enumerate the whole thing. That would take too long. And your ancient Middle Eastern language lesson would be over by the time you'd finished calling the alphabet what it is. All right. Well, let's begin at the beginning.
Letter A
8:07What can you tell us about the letter A? Well, the letter A continually charms me. What we have in a nutshell is this designation of sounds according to a particular symbol. And in this ancient West Semitic language, there is this sound. It's a glottal stop at the back, kind of made in your throat, like an uh sound. Extremely common in English. It's there when you say like uh-oh, for example. It's there twice. And what happens is that this is such an important sound, it's going to get its own letter. And they use an established image of an ox's head, a head of cattle basically.
8:42In this Semitic language, that word is alp. And if you can just picture a sort of 2D, fairly detailed image of an ox's head. It's got horns. It's got a mouth, like a muzzle, two eyes. Mm-hm, I'm drawing it now. I've got a sort of triangle where the two sides of the triangle are going up. But then I'm left with an upside down A. There you go. But why is it upside down? Because then it has to go on its own journey. There's tremendous flexibility in the early history of the alphabet.
9:12So letters can change directions. They can change their stance. Even the direction of writing is a little bit flexible to begin with. You mean it goes right to left or left to right? Absolutely, yeah. Or up and down the page? Indeed so. Up and down the page, I think we have some examples of. Left to right, many more examples of. And even Boustra Fieden, where like a plough going across a field, carried by two oxen, it goes in one direction, drops down, and then goes in the other direction. Why not? Why not? I mean, that's kind of, that's very helpful. It's logical, isn't it? Yeah, very logical.
9:43So basically, A rotated. Is that what you're telling me? A rotated. The ox ended up kind of upside down. Exactly. The legs of our A are the horns of an ox. Very good. Yes. All right. Well, look, let's jump ahead. We're not going to be able to get through all the letters. Let's go to C. Hmm. I like C very much because C is the kind of cousin or perhaps the nephew of the Greek letter gamma and also the Russian letter gay. But you'll notice they don't stand for the same sound.
10:13Something's happened where the Greeks are using the third letter of the alphabet to stand for G, and we're using it to stand, at least originally, for K. But you're saying that with the same part of your throat. You're going K, G. It's right there at the back there, isn't it? Exactly so. But something has to happen. That would be a very unusual sound change to happen within one particular language, and that's because it doesn't. What happens is that the alphabet is basically taken by the Greeks. The Greeks have adopted it from the Middle East and the Phoenicians, and they sail to
10:44Italy, where they've got a very large presence. And they were often the teachers, weren't they, the Greek migrants to Italy? Exactly so. If you wanted education in classical Rome, you hired a Greek. But crucially, when they land in Italy, the dominant power at that time in, let's say, round about the year 700 BCE, it's not the Romans. The Romans are barely on the scene at this point in time. It's the Etruscans. And the Etruscans, well, you know, they haven't left much of an effect. I mean, they're still there in the Italian region of Tuscany, for example. That's sort of their original homeland.
11:15But crucially, in their language, in Etruscan speech, there's no G, but there is a K. And so through this Etruscan prism, the letter gamma becomes the letter K for the Romans, with a K sound. And yet the English C, it's making at least two sounds, C in ceiling and K in car. Two sounds made in completely different parts of the mouth, but then we've only got the same symbol for it in that case, because obviously we've got the S as well. But that's quite peculiar, isn't it? Well, absolutely, yes. It's that if you took this system, modern English spelling back to the times of ancient
11:47Rome, and you presented it to Julius Caesar and, you know, Marcus Tullius Cicero, they'd say, why are you using our letters like that? So, excuse me, I'm Julius Caesar and I'm Marcus Tullius Cicero, for example. It's a hard K. What's going on there is the development of the second one, the soft sea, as we tend to call it. That's a post-Roman development. The seeds have already been sown in the days of Cicero and Caesar, but it really develops in later centuries. So that's a kind of post-Roman thing. Now, the French get round that by that little five without a hat that they put underneath
12:21the sea, the cedilla.
12:24That would be quite handy. Why can't we have a cedilla in English? That would be quite useful. We absolutely could. There's nothing stopping us. You could start using it straight away. It's just we've not been part of the development of that little letter, which actually emerges, that little thing from a zed. Cedilla is a little zed in Spanish. I don't think if I suddenly announced on word of mouth that I'm now going to use diacritics, as they're called all these little symbols and so on, that it would catch on. I don't think, no. No, we're diacritical as a language in English. Yes, yes, we're dead critical.
12:55OK, let's move on.
Letter E
12:56Let's go to E. What have we got with E? Now, E, I have to take this golden opportunity to spread the word about something that just needs to be better known among users of English today, which is the great vowel shift. Ah, it's what at university we used to call the great vowel shift. Excuse me for that little bit of nonsense. We removed the F at my university to make a similar joke as well. OK, so, all right, same joke. Yes, thank you. OK, come on, tell us about the great vowel shift. Well, the reason why I tend to get a little bit preachy about it is because it is this thing
13:29that defines modern English speech and pronunciation, and it's also a kind of dividing line between English and older forms of English, what we call Old and Middle English, and also between English and other languages of Europe. In a nutshell, we've got this shift in vowels. What does that look like? Vowels are produced with the tongue, and for reasons that are hotly debated, much ink has been usefully purposed to talk about how from, say, let's say, the year 1400 to 1700, long
14:02vowels in English speech, so not short ones in a word like met, past tense of meet, but in meet, for example, they're being raised up, they're shifting in their tongue position. I mentioned meet and met there. Met is the past tense of meet, and if you were an alien landing in central London and trying to learn English spelling, you might pronounce meet, present tense, as in I'm meeting my friends, as met, with a long vowel, as if it's a long version of met, because that's
14:32how it used to be pronounced. What's happened is that the great vowel shift, it's made these words drift apart in the same way that child has drifted apart from children. Now their vowels are pronounced slightly differently, because one had a short vowel and one had a long vowel. Why do I mention this for E? Because it affected the name of the letter E itself. It once upon a time would have been E. And if you undo the great vowel shift, if you take it back to how we think someone's pronouncing it in, say, the days of Geoffrey Chaucer, then it's going to be something like A, B, C, D, E, which, I don't know about you, sounds pretty German to me.
15:07It's a dividing line. It separates English speech from the continent. And it's interesting about vowel shifts because they've gone on in New Zealand, where you have pin and pen, that's how I'm saying it, and I'm going to exaggerate now, I think, that in New Zealand you're more likely to say pen as pin, and pin as pen. Indeed. It's been a reversal over the last, I think, 50, 60 years. So the great vowel shift has gone on in New Zealand in my lifetime. It's not stopped. Speech just, it doesn't like to stand still. OK, now we're going to tread on dangerous territory here.
15:40We're going to go to H, which some people pronounce H. So this will split our listeners. Tell us about H and H. Well, before I do so, I suppose I should sort of declare my allegiance. I am Team H myself. Yes. But H is logical, and it's been around for a while. I mean, don't you want the names of the letters to include the sound that they represent? It seems sensible. It's a good argument. Yeah, regardless, I have affection for both, and it's lovely that we can move from E onto H because H is, I would say, the other workhorse of English spelling.
16:13We've got E and Magic E to help us pronounce our vowels, and we've got H to help us pronounce our consonants. It's the partner, the partner in crime, that we partner up with other letters to spell more sounds than the letters in their basic form can do, like C-H. It's not pronounced C-H, it's pronounced CH. Likewise, S-H is not S-H, it's SH. T-H, P-H, English spelling is full of these. We mentioned earlier diacritics. Diacritics, these little additional marks that some languages add to letters to create more sounds.
16:44That is one path to go down, and the other path to go down is what English has done, which is to pair letters up. Both paths are responses to a common problem, which is that the Romans just didn't leave us enough letters. We get our alphabet from them, and sounds like CH and SH and TH, they're not part of Roman speech. They're not there, so they're not in their alphabet. How do we deal with this paucity of letters? Well, English has gone down the route of pairing H up. I think the Greeks are the first people to maybe pair it up with R.
17:15The Romans take this to a new level because they're trying to spell Greek sounds with a little bit of aspiration, a little bit of puff. So we've got rhombus and rhomboid. Rhomboids, rhododendron, myrrh every year in the Timothy plays, for example, with an H at the end. And likewise, words like photo and theatre and chronic in English, these are all words from Greek. And once upon a time in the Greek ancestral word, they are being pronounced with a little bit of h. They're being pronounced something like p-h or t-h. I'm overemphasising here.
17:45So the Romans are really pairing H up, and this just gets a massive kind of boost in the post-Roman period, where you've got, you know, Germanic languages, they need to spell sounds like th. Ch. Modern, what becomes French, needs to spell things like ch. So basically H becomes this essential ingredient, perhaps because at the heart of it, it's just this extremely flimsy sound. It's just a little bit of breathiness. And when that's dropped from speech, happened for the Greeks, happened for Romans, happens for Londoners today,
18:15when you say like at instead of hat, perfectly legitimate phonetic process. And it's happened so many times that H is able to take on new uses. And we have a lovely legacy from Norman French, because the H not being pronounced at the beginning of words, so we have honour and hour as in time. So we've got a little bit of archaeology, the fact that we don't say howa and hona. Exactly so.
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Letter K
19:41Yeah. Let's do K. I think you call this the alphabet's comeback kid. Talk about the comeback kid. Ah, I love that. I love the letter K very much. It's earned its place in our alphabet. When I say comeback kid, I mean that K went through this terrible deprivation and then makes its unexpected rise to prominence. And the two parts of that journey, well, one is in ancient Rome, as the Romans are starting to fight their way to becoming masters of Italy. And they basically take the alphabet,
20:12which is already ancient by this point in time, and they're really quite ruthless, ruthless Romans, with pruning it of redundant letters. They don't need this K. The Greeks have given it to them, but because of the Etruscans, they have the letters K at the beginning, that's our C, and K, which comes from Greek Kappa, that's towards the middle of the alphabet. These two letters are representing the same sound, and the Romans don't like that. They purge K from their alphabet, and consequently, languages that descend from Latin, you won't find K.
20:42So Italian and French, they're very hesitant about using K, maybe a couple of modern English words. And loan words. Loan words, exactly so. However, English really needs it, especially after the Vikings, the word itself contains a K, and the Vikings give English so many more words that the original system of spelling English just can't cope. And we need K to come in and help us spell a hard K sound before vowels where we might expect a soft S. So basically where C on its own can't cope. Also with an SC,
21:13which they pronounced as a SH, I think, didn't they? And then with the K, they're saying it's a SC sound, so for sky, is that right? There you go. That's a great diagnostic of a Norse word from the Vikings. Yes. So K came back in again. Now M, slightly strange about just the name of the letter there. You might expect that M would be called me, along with B and C and D, but instead it's an M. Why is it an M? I love this. It's this sort of hidden method within the madness of English spelling. You don't need to know why the letters are called the way they are.
21:44You can just learn them at school, as we tend to successfully. Nonetheless, there is this ancient system behind our letter names. Once upon a time, they would have had these Greek names, alpha, beta, which were Semitic words. They were just everyday words for everyday things. The alphabet makes its way over to Italy, and probably the Romans, maybe the Etruscans, but they renamed the letters. And there's this fascinating division in how they went about doing that, according to phonetics, the properties of sounds. because if the sound was a,
22:17what we call a stop sound, where the airflow is stopped in its tracks and then released, so a sound like a B and T and G, then that sound comes at the beginning of the name. So the Romans would have talked about the letters B, G, T, in modern English, B, G, T. Other types of sounds, ones where the airflow isn't stopped, but rather is kind of made a little bit friction-y, like F and S, those letter names, the sound comes afterwards. F, S, and it's the same with M as well. And they're continuous. We can go F,
22:48whereas we can't go B, B, B, B, you get stuck, don't we? Exactly. So an M is one of those. M, N. Exactly. It's what we call a nasal sound, and the nose gets involved in the pronunciation of M. And there's just this divide, and we find this M, N, S, F, L. All of these sounds are, they're not the stop sounds, and there's this fascinating phonetic division in our letter names. Very good. V, I suppose, is an exception, isn't it? Because we can go V. Arguably, it should be Ev. Yes. But it isn't. Well, another point for word of mouth, just to announce,
23:19V from now on is Ev. Yeah, but on O. Now, I always like O, because to me, it feels more gestural. In other words, when I say O, and if I say it in a word, like go, look at my lips, I'm making an O with my lips. Is that fanciful? It's not fanciful at all. And yet the history of the alphabet says, I'm afraid not. Basically, as I say, we have this history where they're emerging from hieroglyphs, pictographs that represent something. Could be an object, could be, I don't know, head of cattle,
23:50a house. Body parts often feature in the origins of our letters. And you might think that the origin of O, as you say, is lips. It's not. It's an eye, originally. So it's the vision of the eye as being a circular thing. Exactly so. And it's reduced and reduced and reduced. And what I love is that in the earliest evidence that we have from Greece of the alphabet, when it arrives in Greece, the letter O, Omicron, has a dot, a pupil, and this disappears. Oh, lovely. And as soon as it disappears, then the connection is cut,
24:21unfortunately. The sort of ocular origins are lost. Bring it back. We dot our I's. We're going to dot our O's as well. Absolutely. Bring it back. Thank you, Michael. And O's a great combiner as well. I mean, you've mentioned H, but, I mean, you think what O can combine with all the vowels, can't it? OA for boat, OI for coil, OU as in foul or ghoul. You can pronounce it different ways. Yeah, it's very adaptable. It's a good friend of other letters. Absolutely. It's a very companionable letter. Yes. And now let's do a real oddity.
24:53The name of a letter that doesn't describe what it is. It's W. But, in fact, when we look at it, it's double V. Certainly, the way you see it on the page in print. And actually, many languages do call it a double V. So, I think in Spanish, it would be OUVE DOBLE or DOBLE V in South America. In French, you've got DOUBLE V. and I think in Hungarian, and I think in Hungarian, it's DOUBLE V. So, what's going on here? Why W when in print, it's double V?
25:23This letter is telling us about the origins and history of two other letters, the ones that preceded in the order, which are U and V. The Romans would have known these as a single letter. Most of the time, at least in formal occasions, it would have been written like a V, an angular point at the bottom. And this letter is doubling up in speech. It's representing a consonant, the sound W, and at the same time, a vowel, so the vowel U. So, a word like WINUM, which is Latin for wine, it's the origin of
25:54vino in Italian and va in French. This is including two examples of U. One is a consonant and one is a vowel. And this sort of looks ahead to the medieval future when these letters really start to separate properly until maybe we reach the modern era and alphabets start to list both shapes side by side, the rounded U and then the pointy V, and absolutely now thinking of them as two letters with two separate functions. Because of this confusion as these two letters
26:24struggle to separate from each other over the history of the Middle Ages, we get our confusion in W. For many people would have thought, OK, we can call it W, we can also call it double V, because it's doubling a letter that we basically have two competing renditions of. And W is born before those two letters have finalised the divorce until they've properly separated out. It's quite complicated, isn't it? It is. And so to Z, I mean Z, I'm sorry, Z,
26:54Z, why are we the Zs and why are our American friends Zs? It's both and it's neither. And if you are Dr Johnson, the writer of the Great Dictionary, it's Izzard, this alternative name which he gives in his dictionary. So maybe that's the resolution to the conflict over Z. Sorry, Z, I can't even help it. Why indeed? Because spelling and the alphabet is just full of competing valid principles. That's how I'd put it. You've got two ways of naming
27:26the letters that are equally plausible. On the Z side, I won't say it's particularly British because there are other countries that favour Z, countries close to America like Canada where I think Z is very common. That honours history. That word honours history in that it comes from Zeta. It comes from the Greek letter Zeta. So we have this Z at the end which has passed through French and that sort of thing. However, Z honours harmony and letters all sounding the similar.
27:56So of course if you have B and G and T why shouldn't you have Z? Both are valid principles and when we have these situations we have a stalemate. So we just have to look to the future and have a guess whether this will be resolved. And do you have a favourite letter? I do. It is difficult. I do love A because it is just this great introduction to the alphabet but for me it has to be S. I love S. I think it is the workhorse of English grammar.
28:27It spells our words but also strings them together. Strings them together. It is the present tense marker in English and for that it is very impressive. We rely on it so much to form a sentence. And you know what the longest word is don't you? Anti-disestablishment. No. It smiles because there is a mile between the two S's. Lovely. Lovely. Yes. Before we go though should we talk a bit about the lost letters? Of course. You know we've talked about letters being added but we lost letters didn't we? We lost Ash Wynne Thorn Eth
28:58Yorg and Ethel dear old Ethel they're gone. They're gone temporarily we can always bring them back there's nothing to stop us at the end of the day and perhaps the needs may arise. So many words in English have T-H maybe the lost letter Thorn which we actually take from the world of runes this separate writing tradition which instantly conjures up images of Vikings and longships and bearded gods and things like that well that was how English was originally written down to begin with and we could bring back Thorn
29:28it's very helpful for spelling T-H it would only now actually have to spell two sounds it needs to spell a Th but also a The sound. Well thank you very much Danny it's been a great journey A to Z with some missing and there's one more thing to tell you listeners before we go as you may know here at Word of Mouth we're teamed up with the Open University the OU and recently linguists from the OU sat down with me for a conversation about the words we use where I talk about my own language journey and what I've learned from the stories
29:59behind how we speak. Well to listen you can visit the BBC Radio 4 Word of Mouth homepage and follow the links to the Open University. Now to end Danny I thought as a silly game we could try and wish each other goodbye just with letters but before that I'm going to say thanks very much to you Danny Bate for sharing some of your book Why Q Needs You and I'll say goodbye to all of you out there in letters TTFN Tata for now your turn Danny what have you got?
30:30Oh wow I will have to go informal TTFN is lovely I'll have to say see you Oh very good yes and from me to you listeners BRB be right back next week 102 miles ago the oil light came on 100 miles ago you noticed now it's time to head to take 5 this oil change fall in love with your car all over again in just 10 minutes your dream technician will check your tyre pressure top off fluids
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