Ep.19 Which risk do you want to take? - Patricia Machado

Introduction

0:00Hello, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Gideon Mashava and welcome for one more episode of the World Class Designer Podcast. My guest today is Patricia. How are you, Patricia? Fine, I'm fine. I'm excited to be here. Where are you talking from now? I'm in Italy. I'm based in Detroit, but I'm currently in Italy, waiting for the pandemic to pass. Oh, how long have you been in Italy now?

0:31Since March. Wow, so this was a large... About 10 months. Are you enjoying your stay there? Yes, yes. It's a beautiful country. It brings some perspective. Where in Italy are you based? I'm in Rome. Oh, that's fantastic. I love Rome. I went there in March or February and I really love the place. It's a very big... So we almost met. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, almost met.

Patricia's Career

1:02So tell me Patricia, what do you do for a living? So I'm a UX researcher and designer. I have worked most of my career in design in the transportation industry in Michigan, Detroit, with Supers and also with, you know, the big companies. And there I have worked from HMI and infotainment for autonomous cars. But I also work at an information technology department, building tools and processes to enable mobility and digital

1:36transformation through our research. Nice, nice, nice. So a lot of experience. Yes, very exciting. An exciting time to be in transportation, I have to say. Nice. So like, have you like growing up, do you expect to land on what you're doing now? Not at all. I'm not a car person. And that's kind of funny. I go to my work in my bike and I might be the only person in my building doing that. Everybody has their Ford and I go on my bike. But you know,

2:08transportation nowadays is more than cars. It's this mobility experience. It's about moving people and now enabling people to go from one place to another doing something they enjoy. And that is very exciting. But I never expected to be working in mobility. I have always been, you know, person focused. So I am excited to be trying to understand people needs and an impact through that. Nice. Patricia, like going to the main questions of the show, you know, like the format that we use

2:42is questions for your younger self. Like I will ask again, growing up, did you expect to work as UX researcher? Like on, did you expect, did you expect to do what you're doing like today now? Now, not especially with cars, but on the field itself, did you expect to become a user experience design researcher? It didn't exist at that point, UX research. I do find it similar to journalists and investigative journalists. That is an area that I like and I work for a while. So I feel that

3:20it's like a combination of things I have done before. I didn't know if I expected. I have many dreams and I think I still have many things to do. And I don't know how long I'm going to be in UX. It might change too, right? What I can say is that I see how my background and previous experience apply to what I'm doing. So somehow it makes sense for me to be here.

Design Process

3:43Oh, nice. And how do you explain your younger self with one year experience, what you do now? I think that's interesting. You know, when you graduated, I thought design was all about empathy and making ideas concrete or communicating ideas visually. And that's still right. And it's very much about understanding the users. But something that I learned about a year when I was in my career, it's not just about understanding the user, but it's also about understanding the context,

4:16the teams, the projects, and the companies, and even the community. So the role of designer is not just to understand what the user needs and make it tangible, but it's also to make it impactful and to assure that it has adoption in the company or in the team. So a lot of the work that design does, and I didn't know when I was studying, is about how you communicate those ideas to the team, how to make people in the company feel excited about what the user wants about the future we can be. And those things you learn when you're working,

4:46I know when you're studying or observing, you have to be in the practice to realize how important our collaboration, communication, and inspiring others with research or insights from users. Nice. And how do you explain your process? You know, as I said, of course, there is the design thinking process, which is what I use when you empathize and define and you go through the whole process testing and prototyping. But there is also

5:16again, how the team adopt it. So I think the process goes by you follow these stages to define it. And something that I didn't know before is you might go to this process several times. It's not that you do research and it's done and you move to the next phase. You're probably going to do research in different phases of the project and you're going to define at different phases. And for example, if you're in a, you might be empathizing with ideas that are very abstract, like collaboration, what does collaboration means for a team when you're creating a software tool. But as you move

5:51towards the project, you will have to go again to a empathize phase when you need to go things more concrete, like how do we represent a status in an effective way. So those phases of design thinking is not one pass and you are done. You go throughout that phase or circle several times in the project. But the other thing that I explained before, it doesn't happen in isolation. So for example, when you define, when you empathize, you are not just empathizing with the user,

6:24you also have to empathize with the company, with stakeholders. And a lot of the work is, I do a lot of problem finding and it's not just, okay, I interview the users and I understand what is the problem. I also have to interview stakeholders and understand the business to understand what is the business case, what are the needs of the team. And once you have that defined, you also need to reach alignment from everyone so everyone is clear. So you're almost like an enabler of design and not just a designer. And I think that's how it's been key in my process. The process that I go through,

6:57but also the role of designer in each of the phases to make that impactful, impossible and make things happen. Nice. That's a very insightful way. And which mistakes would you tell your younger self to make? Uh, that's a tricky question. I think, uh, I, I, you know, sometimes you do things and you don't know if there are right or wrong until you do it. So whatever things that I've done that are mistakes, I don't even want to admit to them again, but what I will say, or I would like to reframe it as what

7:30risk would you take again? Okay. Uh, that without knowing or without intention, they become something good. Uh, and in that sense, I think, uh, there are two things that have been key. One is, um, to speak about your ideas, right? At the beginning, I was, you know, afraid of being new in a company, of being from a different culture. And, uh, I learned to share my ideas. And when a team wants you as part of their, you know, probably just because they want to hear your perspective. So sharing what you think,

8:05bringing the perspective of the user is never a mistake. It's a risk you have to take. Be like, I will always do those risks that I took that could have ended badly, but not because of that. I wouldn't do it again in different contexts. Uh, and it's just, uh, make sure that you are reaching the user. I did things like being on a company. Uh, I took the December break to plan this, uh, creation activity with a lot of users, with people in the company that I didn't know. I reached to everyone to be, you know, a group of designers that helped us with activity. And that was a big risk. I was

8:37you, uh, there were other things I didn't know of the company, but just because the goal was to get closer to the users, that will never have gone wrong. So that's, that's a risk that I'm always willing to take and that is always going to pay back. Oh, I see. Oh, I see. That's, that's a very nice advice. Uh, so tell me Patricia, what would you recommend your younger self to focus on? Uh, I think learning, um, in that sense, it can be design related, but anything else that you want to learn

9:10that you can feel, you want to feel, you feel passionate, uh, you should do it. As, as a designers, we're a bit of a generalist and we have to know a bit of everything and, and understand different people, different cultures. So learning about something is always going to be helpful. Maybe you don't know it now, but you might be passionate about cooking and in the future, you're going to be working in a project about food or, so we need to stay curious. We need to stay learning and that's something we always need to take time and that is good immunity too. Um, it's always going to pay back

9:44to help people and also being connected. Um, you know, I'm a big believer of communities. Nice. And what about skills? Which skills would you suggest to, to, to have? Like anything that will make the younger self a better designer? Um, anything that helps you to make, uh, ideas concrete. Um, you know, there are different variations. They might be storytelling, drawing, or, or, you know,

10:15making things with your hands and building 3d printing, but anything that helps you to make a discount is very important. Uh, and storytelling is key because those things that you make need to have a story. There needs to be a context. And then also, uh, something that I learned more, more recently is, uh, how do you leave it in with, when there's a lot of uncertainty? And I think designers, we're kind of, um, okay, or we are okay with uncertainty. We know how it works. We know

10:45eventually we follow the process, we will get to the right place. But what is difficult is making others feel comfortable when they're not, uh, familiarized with, with design and with how messy the process is. I think that is key. How do you make others feel comfortable when things are not clear? And living with uncertainty, I think it's like a key skill to have and to be alone. I think, I think kind of like now with the time that we're living, uh, we all have to learn to live with uncertainty because of the coronavirus times, it's really, really uncertain. Totally.

11:17This is a great example of, you know, I, I would expect that designers are more prepared because it's part of our work. Uh, but it's true that now we are all going to be better at that. Yeah. I hope so. Uh, what about readings? Like any specific suggestions like for your younger self? Yeah, I think, uh, two, two advices. Uh, one is, um, there was a computer was very focused on design and reading about design and that's fantastic. But you know, we should also, as I said before in learning, we should keep reading about other, other things that you might find

11:50relevant. But there is a book that I, uh, recommend to all my mentees and it was very helpful to me. It's called designing your own life, uh, designing your life, sorry. And, um, it's a book that used design thinking to design a career path. And it's very interesting. I started, uh, the story that I know is that it started as a class in Stanford. Uh, the teachers or the chairs realized that, you know, designers were ready to solve products, to solve the problems of the users, but they couldn't figure out for themselves what they wanted to do later. And they have this class

12:22to help people use design thinking in their life. Uh, it became a book and then it became, uh, a class. And I think it's key to any designer that is trying to understand what is their value, what can they bring to the, that will help you to create a different hypothesis of your future yourself and how to test those like career hypotheses and understand which one is better for you. It also has some, um, you know, it breaks down some ideas that we have that, oh, you should be passionate and what does that mean, right? Maybe you don't know what you are passionate about until you do it

12:55enough. So it's more about, uh, what are the things that make you yourself and how to understand yourself better and then build hypotheses and test it and prototypes almost. So I found it fantastic. And I think it helps designers in three ways. It helps you to build your career. It's true. You also have this holistic approach that is not just about the career, but in order to be happy in your career, you also have to be happy. You also have to have good health. It has four properties. A career, love, health, and play. And you have to focus on the four to be able to, to be successful in any.

13:28And that's something designers we do too. We understand that, uh, a user might have a future that is very good, but if the customer experience is not right or there is something wrong, uh, we can pretend to be, to create, um, a world-class customer experience. So this holistic approach. And the other thing is that it helps us to use design thinking in other, um, contexts and that makes us better. That makes us to understand better how it works and how can we evolve the, the discipline.

13:59No, I see. Uh, and, uh, like that sounds like a really, really interesting book. Uh, I think you're totally right about us designers not knowing how to solve our own problem when the topic is career. And, uh, yeah, I will definitely add like the recommendation, the show notes. Yeah. Uh, let me know how it goes.

Advice for Younger Self

14:21Okay, cool. So what about people to follow? What would you advise your younger self, uh, to follow? Um, we need to surround ourselves of people from different perspectives, uh, or viewpoints. So, so you get, you know, different views into the same, the same problem or challenge. So one idea, yeah, this is something I do is when everybody has ideas that are different to mine, I try to follow them. Uh, I'm not expecting them. I'm not expecting to change, but I'm curious to hear what they have to

14:53say. So it's okay to follow people that are similar to you, that have similar passions, uh, in design or in other disciplines. I love movies and I follow, you know, directors and screenplay writers. Uh, but even people that have different perspective is also very valuable. We need to, to be able to, you know, to get a sense of what are the different viewpoints in a problem. Uh, and the other thing that there is key is, I believe is follow your peers. You know, people that grow up with you,

15:26that I started with you, uh, at the moment, you just see them as somebody that is struggling with the same things. And what can you learn from there? But reality, that's the people that is evolving with you in the same context, uh, in the same society, uh, but with different perspective or different point of view. So stay in touch with them and follow to see what are they doing. Uh, because in the future, they're the ones that are going to be meeting with you, you know, projects and companies and societies. Definitely. Like the following up here is a very, very different perspective. Also,

15:57we tend to like trying to run for them, but, uh, yeah, it's really important to have people who from around you, around you. Uh, so Patricia, tell me what would you, what you wouldn't tell your younger self? What I wouldn't tell? Um, I think younger self is not okay to do that. I wouldn't tell my younger self to, um, to fit, to try to fit. Uh, I think I was a migrant. I have an accent and,

16:30you know, I wasn't a designer. I studied in a designer school and I was the only non-designer. in the master and in the whole graduate program. Um, and you know, it's challenging. And do I have to be like everyone? Do I have to? And, and I think there were things that I had to learn, but it's good to keep your essence and to understand that what you have that is different has value and that makes you unique. So I'm a big believer of diversity and I will never tell myself of anybody else to fit in a place to, to not be true to themselves. Nice. Nice advice. Uh,

17:04so like in talking to you and yourself, how much of your current professional success would you attribute to hard work and how much would you attribute to that? Uh, I like that question a lot. So there is this, um, background that I have in my LinkedIn profile. And, uh, I think it's from Picasso, but you know, I'm not totally sure. And it says inspiration exists, but it has to find working. And I think the whole point is that luck is proportionate to the amount of work that I have done. So sure. There are situations in, you might be in the right time

17:38at the right place, but it's because I was already working hard and I was that I was ready for that. And then you go out and you look for those opportunities. So there is an element of luck in life in everyone's life, but hard work is fundamental so that you can take advantage of those opportunities that are out there. And, and also that you go and find those opportunities. You can just stay at home waiting for the opportunities to come. Okay. Okay. But, but I don't think you, you did reply the question. You answered the question. I mean, I, yeah, I think, uh, the question is

18:12how much of, uh, work and luck is the question, right? Yes. How much? Yeah. So I think it's, uh, it's about work. It's about working hard and, and, and being ready, but there is an element of luck for sure, but you won't get, uh, that opportunities, that lucky opportunities if you are not ready. So it's mostly about work and, um, and being ready. Mmm. So like, if you had to give like percentage, how much would be work and how much would be like, uh, luck? I think it's 98 versus 2%. Whoa. Okay.

18:49Okay. I see where you're going. Uh, so, you know, you have to get ready. There's a lot of opportunities out there, but unless you're ready, you won't get them. I see. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Luck happens. And that's when I quote, uh, you know, Picasso, luck, luck happens to those that are already, inspiration happens to those that are already working in for that to happen. Uh, okay, Patricia, do you have any questions for me? We missed one question. Yes. It's number eight.

19:21Is that fine? Yes. No, not necessarily. I think you kind of answered like, uh, in a different way, but go ahead if we, if you want to answer a different answer for this. Okay. So ask me the question. So which tools you chose as younger selves to learn? Uh, I think, uh, pencil and brain, are the ones that you have to master better. And I'm sure there are, you know, software tools that you can learn and, um, and stay updated with those. But the most important thing for designer is to understand

19:56how things clears before you go to the software. Okay. So, you know, use scissors and cut paper and have ideas clear. So when you go to whatever tool you are using, do you know exactly what are you trying to solve? How are you going to communicate the problem? Okay. So it's about, uh, you know, understanding the problems and making things clear before you drag yourself into the tool. I see. But, uh, like, do you think that that's a, uh, a must situation? Like you have to start with

20:27pen and paper all the time? Well, um, it doesn't have to be in paper, but I think the point is to use software tools, uh, to create things that are meaningful. You first need to understand what is useful. Okay. Uh, that doesn't happen in the tool that happened, you know, in, in the work that you do before. Okay. Makes a lot of sense. Okay. Uh, asking again, there is anything that I think, do you think I missed? No, it's perfect. Thank you. Okay. Perfect. So Patricia was really,

20:59really nice to have you on the podcast. Uh, I think your answer will help a lot of designers around the world because like, it's really hard to find content for designers on early stages of their career out there. And, uh, like being able to ask those questions, like, uh, especially when you, when you're talking to your younger self will help a lot of designer on, on the, on the first years of their careers. So thank you for your time and, uh, talking for you next time.

21:35Amen. Amen. Amen.