Ep.13 You need to take yourself on your hands - Indaiá Militão

Introduction

0:00hello ladies and gentlemen welcome to one more episode of the podcast world-class designer and with me today i have india militant india is a designer from brazil with an incredible history and she works for companies like wolf wagen brazil general motors in the u.s and a lot of other places uh to talk about more a bit about herself i will invite india so welcome india to

India's Background

0:33the show and please tell our audience who you are and where you come from and a bit of your story thank you for inviting me it's a really a pleasure uh my name is india i'm 45 years old and my mother father uh child who has 16 and uh i'm designer and now i'm i was working first of all in a product design and now i work for more strategic and management but always like with design um

1:07process and a way to do things in a design system let's say like that

Design Experience

1:12uh okay fantastic and tell us a bit about your experience where have you worked and like i know you lived in a lot of places yes yes yeah i started to work as a designer first of all i started to study publicity and in the advertising first in my college and then in my university i did uh industrial design so i started to work at gm since the the one in my university was was not my uh

1:43goal at that time i really wanted to work for electronics you know like cell phone something like that but then i i did a test at gm and i passed so i'm still the only woman the only black woman who who has this experience to do cars i mean transportation at uh south america still only me

Career Path

2:07but i started like 25 years ago and uh yeah and uh yeah i was working also with um aircraft interior aircrafts and in executive aircraft so i went to uh 15 countries 28 cities in the world working with design and understand briefings doing uh graphic design and product design so yeah it's a long it's a long way and now i work with um facebook at facebook and um my spot over there is is to manage

Digital Communication

2:43the digital communication um and creative team for business and i have three um um a project that i i'm a leader for that and all this history is it's about diversity and inclusion not only for blacks but for pcds for lgbtq and gray age this minority they say minority but we are they say minority but we we know that we are a minority here in brazil like we the black ones

3:15it's like 54 percent of our of our people here so now we understand that and also the companies understood and now they don't translate us anymore so we are the one that you know and i'm i'm in front of this i'm responsible for this this uh project and i'm really happy to to do that to open doors for more people like us that's fantastic uh like as you guys can see like uh and i is literally a world

3:46class designer so and i had so like the idea of the podcast is to try to teach people how to become

Advice to Younger Self

3:53world class designers so what we do with the format is we ask questions for your younger self so what would you have done like in the past so other people can kind of replicate so they can become as good as you are so to kick off like this experience like i would like to go with the first question so how would you explain to your younger self maybe if you meet and i are like 25 years ago how would you explain to her design ah that's a fantastic uh question um i understood that i need

4:26to be to know myself and to trust myself um because as a designers we always um looking forward to have a better uh service or product whatever for people but when we do that in a very um true let's say way you need to understand you so you need to to prepare yourself since day one for you know to feel comfortable to feel secure for for do your job so you need to find your own way so if i can tell to

5:00myself uh i can tell like trust yourself and uh be stronger and for be strong i always do sankofa i always look like where i came from for be for understand where i want to be in the future so i'm really very uh respectful with my legacy and understand all the the the lessons that the the old guys give to us and uh as a black and women i always like i can tell like i was growing in my career and um i have the

5:38feeling that when i was growing the the the races and then the all these things was bigger when i started was very less because they are not used to to see like a women and black and from brazil whatever to do a good job so um and i have no one in that time now it's much better but have no one who is was the same like a partner someone that i can trust and then can say like because i have so less black and and and women in that time and still have i'm the only one in south america so i build up um um

6:16um network for me that i trust i mean so i have a mentor i have like uh psychologists i have uh some friends i have some people who who has who who is in a position that i want to be because i want to be a a designer head uh designer head for some places so i found um a network that can help me to to understand my journey and to to you know to do my goals in a way that i can be successful so you need

6:49to you need to uh you know take your life in your hands you know what i mean trust yourself and do yourself so like coming back to to design like i know you have experience like uh like with aircraft

Design Process

7:03design and cars design so how would you explain to your younger self so you haven't imagine you have no clue about design how would you explain to your younger self your you your design process how do you solve a problem using design first of all um when i started at gm or also i think we are doing this transportation uh products uh i didn't see myself on that when we start because in that time we don't have a persona that i can you know uh do my research this comes from a target target uh people

7:42and then came from uh marketing or you know research but in a different way that we do today right so when i started i really was like asking my my my my um father why they don't put us on this uh people that we do this this this product right but then i understood that uh don't be in in in this um these studies for me was um a key i mean because then i say i'm a woman i don't do that i don't use

8:18this i don't do it in this way i don't you know and then they realized that was not the man for cars for example who who do the last word was the women because she was the one who see inside the car and then all the the the materials that is inside i mean leather fabric i mean plastic this type of thing so i i understood that my uh opportunity was to see like all my colleagues at that time who was training with

8:48me they were all men's and they always like once you see the exterior part right because this exterior part was the the the boom let's say like that the the important thing but then i said to my mentor he's still my mentor he told like india doing a different way so do it the inside understand each part because then you can have like a lot of possibilities you know so now i know i'm a specialist for leather for fabric for for plastic you know for all parts inside and also like do the watch or or do the stereo wheel

9:25or something like that and then painting and uh and this helped me to have more possibilities to work work in different places companies uh suppliers because each one has a different way to do things like process and when i i uh decide to to change to migrate to more strategic um position i realized that i had so many information for different companies how they do things how do they resolve problems

9:58that i understood that the universe is very um let's say very clever you know you need to open your eyes and need to be uh you need to listen carefully for each one and with no judgment and then you have like a tragedy in your hands you know so it's that way nice nice and uh uh like a jumping to to to

Mistakes and Lessons

10:27to the next question uh so which mistakes would you uh tell yourself like 25 years ago to make i know you were very brave like challenging status quo uh but uh would you consider it would you consider that

10:46so like like i'm talking about like good mistakes like mistakes that taught you something that were precious how yes um one mistake was when i when i finished my trainee here in brazil they had a a problem a politic problem right always something like that happened here time to time and um then i had the opportunity to move to my first country was austria right europe and then i went there for three months i have no english i had no english in that time so i was a little afraid you know to to

11:20to and i'm youngest i have a sister who's older than me and then my father told like you need to to go to this opportunity i mean even you you feel afraid i will be with you but in that time has no internet right so i started to do english by myself studying by was crazy because we had no money to to pay a teacher so i was looking all the the movies that i can in that time with uh the the subtitles in

11:55english and then i learned english like that then i i when i had the opportunity so i i moved to to europe i was 19th in that time and after three months they told me like indai i need to stay longer and then i was preparing for be there until like was september to december come back home and then in december they said we we like you a lot we want you stay and then i was so afraid that i said i i cry it to my boss because he was like we want you to have you here you know as a as a designer we have

12:31this and that and then he gave me like uh offer a very good one and then i said no no i want you to come back to my place i want you to come back home and then he told like i understand but do you understand that it's a very good opportunity and i have no clue at that time you know because i came from a very poor uh family so i called my my um my father and we had this uh time they they were here at that time five times five hours less than i was in europe and then i called to my dad he was

13:04he was he was sleeping then i told like they want you i stay here what shall i do i want you to come back home and then my father told me in a very like strict way you need to stay in europe you have no idea here in brazil have no clue you have no opportunity so you need to stay he was very like strict to the point but then i caught you i didn't say oh uh maybe because i was really very secure but then i i at that time i had a uh a boyfriend who was my uh was my husband for for for a long time

13:38and then i called him for have a second opinion and then he told it in a very opposite way like you need to come back home your your mother needs you blah blah blah blah and then i came back and i think was a very big mistake because when i came back was difficult to come back to europe again with the same situation that i had uh so it was a big mistake that i don't listen my my father i listen my boyfriend who has no clue and no experience that my father has so listen your parents listen

14:10them because they know better than us right uh i came back again i came back to europe but not just in the same situation because he gave me an offer to be a manager and in that time and i was i was 19 20 right i was like i'm manager no so the other mistake was like i i today i understand that i deserve this it is not a bad to understand that you can do things but in that time i really felt like

14:44no no it's not for me you know my my family has no no no managers and now i'm 20 i'm 20 21 and i'm manager give me a break this is not true so i don't trust myself so don't do that guys don't do that trust yourself okay fantastic like yeah so this is a big it is a very very big takeaway trust yourself uh so yeah like uh it's a fantastic story yeah so what would you recommend your younger self to focus on

15:16um focusing yourself i mean because um for a long time i um was thinking to if i focus on myself i was uh selfish i don't know why but i really felt like i was selfish so i realized that i i can focus in myself and trust myself and do my thing and this is something that i should do by myself you know uh so like yeah that's that's that's that's that's that's nice like that's nice to hear i change i change the meaning of some words

15:50like how selfish is something when i i was talking to my parents selfish is something bad right yeah but now i realize that it's not bad it is good if you you know if you you need to put in the first place because if you're not feeling good you can you can't help anyone right it's a kind of thing that happens in airplane that you put like first of all in you and then you you can save someone and it is meaning i see i see what you mean that's that's a very important uh important thing like

16:22focus on yourself so uh what uh which advice would you you give your younger self in terms of what to learn to become a world-class designer huh um culture i think when i each country that i went to

Recommended Books

16:40have no internet in that time right so i bought a book so i have a book for a lot of places um that's good but now you can have internet to help you you know so i had the always when i came to a country that i didn't know even when i know i always like ask someone to where is the places that i can go who has museums or something cultural that is from that country or something like that so um i started late

17:11to do that so i can tell you like you need to to focus uh to have a a worldwide worldwide vision for things so you need to understand cultures people and uh the other device is like when you listen to someone you listen carefully you don't listen to answer questions you first of all you listen you understand that information you realize that and then you you answer because sometimes i i have a kid

17:46right he's 16 sometimes i'm talking to him i give him my information but he he's very reactive he he wants to answer he wants to show me that he knows and now with my team at faith at facebook sometimes i'm facing that so when i when i realize that people are like anxious to answer to more to show that they are clever or they know things i always say i know that you know but you don't listen to me so i do that

18:17again so i i can tell you that like the advice is to listen carefully and to listen even when you don't uh agree agree with that speech because you need to respect people you don't need to to agree all the time and sometimes people that you don't agree give you a different perspective then you think about it and then maybe you can change so the the the i think the advice is like more when someone gives you a feedback

18:52a bad feedback or or and then i also uh think about bad feedback when someone say you don't do this correct first of all i was like why not and i really was shocked and i really feel comfortable now when someone say i need to give a feedback you need to this this to do this better i'll first say thank you because this is something show me like someone really uh pay attention on me and give me a device because the device is not only for say are you good the the the good advice sometimes or most

19:29of the times that someone say you need to to to rethink this you need to do that or that and depends the way like sometimes you don't feel you're not prepared to listen something that is something different than you expect so the advice is to to be calm focus and humble to listen people even people that you don't like the way they do things because you can transform this this um this opportunity or

20:03maybe this subject to rethink and as a design as a ux designer or service designer or human center designer we always thinking like we can make something wrong it's no problem at all but in my time when i was designer a product designer for physical uh was difficult to say i'm wrong the the the way that the journey that we made is to be correct all the time and now i think for for you guys and also myself

20:35i feel free when i say i can do something wrong i can try different things and uh if it's it's not it's not correct in that time but help me to understand better and then for me my perspective to to um to to understand things and to organize managing things it's better now because i can uh i let me to do something wrong it is no problem it is it's light energy you you know what i mean yeah it's not that

21:07that you need to be all the time uh the best one the best thing no got it like yeah that's a fantastic that's a fantastic feedback uh yeah this is like your answer is uh okay uh it gives me a lot of to think of

21:27so like uh but let's continue so you talk about books uh you said that people should like read books about culture so if i could ask you which books would you encourage your younger self to read like if you were like 24 years younger which books you will tell your younger self to i'm i'm really into um um familiar constellation or um something that you you you understand your legacy

21:58you know because it's something that uh help you to understand your future i always say sankofa because sankofa is something like if you know where you're from you can listen them understand them and then you can go forward because you know your your base now you know your legacy so i start to willing to a system vision of life so i have a lot of books that talks about this i can give you some

22:30names if you want it but it's in portuguese and then also um we say pnl um neuro neuro linguistic um informations because then you understand yourself the way you you do things the way you you construct you you do your journey the way you you think about it when you start to do your job you know and um and also to understand people so i did some research about uh also

23:02quantity physics because i really wanted to know about future how can we do how can you build up a future so i i um now research a lot of future futurologist thing how you we can construct this and um

23:21it's very cool because when you start to think about to do to be a change maker like myself like you we have no clue how to do it but we have a feeling so i think you should uh find your own way to to to be stronger with your feeling to trust your feeling when someone when some comes to my your mind they say don't do that or do this in this way and then you need to be free with no judgment you

23:51know sometimes it's a crazy idea and i can tell you like when i i was at gm and then i saw my first car i really was like i'm a black woman with less than 21 years and i'm i'm studying and i have my first vector was i was with this this project and when i saw the car i really was like that's amazing because i really like was uh against the system right was a woman black with 20 years old and i did i did uh one very

24:28crazy idea at that time um about the interior they were shocked and they say you need to do it so i trust my feelings so for be stronger and be more sensible with these feelings i meditate because then when you're quiet your feelings you're tough you need to be quiet so you listen yourself so every day i i do i do meditation for 20 minutes and uh and i also um now recently i was talking to erico erico fileno

25:04and he gave me a different one you have your mind like from zero right you you clean your mind so i love this because then then i can start my day more calm because i always like i list the beginning now i'm better but i think so many things in the same time that it's difficult to rest my mind so now when i realize that i can quiet my mind and uh i do in two different ways i do by meditation and now i also clean

25:40my mind read uh reading or better uh writing so you write every day something that you learn you have a book in the end of in the end of the year right you can you can share this information so some people do like medium for example for one discover or whatever my myself i want to i do a book so i every day that i have something new even it's not so new i put i put my notes there for my journey my personal

26:12journey and sometimes i did i organize in my slack so i have like personal professional myself and sometimes when i when i feel like tired or i'm i don't know i'm in a bad day i went there say yeah let me reveal this how can we do that better how can we well how can i have a better behavior how can i be strategic even for myself so when i talk with my son for example i use design for my own life i have

26:48my journey in my in my my wall and i look at that and then i change some things like for for the beginning i said i will be a product designer forever for cars and then i realized no no no i want to change it so i i change my my way to do things and then for me was a refresh because i was tired to do the same things even i was manager from cadillac right very fancy but very tired as well i have no more

27:21good energy no more new things and i really and i i realized that i love to do new things and i love to be strategic and i really smart to you know to talk to people so now i um i realize that i can be myself and that's okay nice you know i'm i'm really very smart and that's okay i can't because for the beginning i really was like try to fit in so i can't as a black and women i can't be smarter than my boss

27:55boss but now i realize that yes i'm smarter than my boss and that's okay if if he's he cannot deal with me i need to change i need to make a movement if that's okay okay fantastic uh like every time you answer a question it gives me a lot of to think of kind of no i kind of don't know how to follow up so like to jump to the next question so which people will just uh suggest your younger self to

28:25follow people that you do want to be like for me for example when i start to research to make this migration for ux and ui and service design i went to my linkedin and then i found erico feeling right

Influential People

28:43i didn't know him so first of all i was following him 360 like not only as a professional but as a father as a teacher as a whatever and then i realized that yes i wanted to have a connection with this guy he's different and then i went to the linkedin and i introduced myself in a very humble way like erico my name is indiah i need your help i need to move my stuff i had no no clue how to no i'm

29:15afraid it's no problem just to be very open and sincere with people and then i told him like could you give me like 10 minutes of your time 10 minutes of your time she talked to me because i i want to be you in the near future he was like what the okay was very fast he said you want to be me and i said yeah i want to be you like head of visa for example how can i do that as a black and women how can i be

29:47strategic and then uh he started to talk about his life uh this professional life and they said no no no ethical i was to understand how can you be calm how can you be calm when someone tells something that you don't like and then he says ah meditation so you know sometimes it's not it's not about to you know um understand that that that skill that you want to have be a president but how people can

30:19manage your life in a very like balanced way like erico for example that he has family he works

30:3010 to 19 and he don't he doesn't answer you know after that so he he teach people how to respect him and then he was i told him like i went to that because book i have and then now i'll have youtube have a lot of stuff right but how can you build up a journey that you can be whatever you want to be so this is the key you know sometimes i talk to my grandmother

31:05she's very old she has no clue i mean for for university skills but she's very rich i mean for the ancestrality how to do things how to be stronger in our position as a black right so sometimes he says to me yeah you need to stop to eat meat because meat give give you feel angry so maybe you should change to be more vegan or and then you can try this this this vegetable here and then we try you know

31:40know so i listen different people in different situations even no with no judgment uh it's not only the rich like i want to be steve jobs yes you can but it is not that because this guy steve jobs he like he got a cancer he he was people was hating him so his life is not good for be like an example right we need to think about it and then i like i like apple a lot but i seen i think that this journey

32:13his journey was alone was difficult was was hard was heavy i don't want that so um it's a different way to see people i see people like 360 every each one of us like we are a small universe who connecting with each other so i only connect with people who has the same energy like me who likes to do something different or who trust yourself as i told you this morning i told you my son to to know more about you

32:44because you you are a change maker for real you know what i mean you do your thing because you trust this and then you have your your tracking you own track because you trust the things you do that's my point and this is something very personal right so ericul he he teach me about visa no but he teach me about how can you be uh happy and in a balance with this corporate world who's not easy to to be with

33:14right to be people respect your time respect yourself as a person and even he's he's a white guy right black man and white for me as a black and women i need to be a little bit more strategic but with no heavy energy because then you'll be very happy for me i have i have a lot of things that i need to deal with and sometimes i only say no i don't want to deal with this stuff that's it i don't waste my time with

33:46someone that i don't think that can give can't give anything you know i i choose my my my wars i choose someone that i want to trust or not so i handle my hand my life in my hands i trust myself that's that that's the key the key is yourself your you need to be your manager you need to be your mentor first of all you because anyone knows you better than yourself right i have a son now i understand him

34:16but he has a different way to deal with people with people or things so i respect him in that i yeah and i i told you article yesterday that i that i wanted to him be more provocative with me for because i'm in a comfort zone i want you to be in be in a comfort zone something is wrong so it's it's a kind of balance i mean i only want you i always need myself and i i really uh i like to be

34:47in a challenge this this something that my blood like comes warm so you need to understand yourself i mean what things that you want to do for for be happy with yourself happy truly happy not only in social media not only you know in a magazine i know a lot of people who is in a magazine tell like they are successful but they are totally depressed or you know i in diameter i'm for i'm real i'm from

35:19you know i really trust myself for real i have no masks and i like that if people are very afraid sometimes the way that i do things but yeah there this is their problem not my problem

35:36i see like uh i think i do have like similar problems sometimes about being too confident and people being afraid of you but i think it's kind of a nice problems to have uh i think and i you end up like answering a lot of the questions that i was about to ask yeah so like uh uh we almost close to close the session i want to ask you what you wouldn't tell your younger self because you think

Reflections and Advice

36:10your younger self will be afraid of but but on the same time that that same thing was you knew that was really important for you but you wouldn't do it if you knew like the outcome i'm a mother so i i can tell you uh that i did this with arthur um my mother my family we had a here in brazil we did that i don't know if in africa is the same but um here in brazil when you you born black and also women they say that you need to be like 10 times better than the white ones

36:45and this is something who depends on the person help um helps like you need to be better but some people are like i'm so tired i don't want to be better right so i think it's very heavy to do that so for my son i say i don't say to him like you need to be 10 times better than anyone i always say you need to understand what you want to do what you want to be what you what you like and have no one that can translate this it's inside of you so if my father my father did that to me but takes took

37:19some time right um i can tell that like you need to understand you better you need to understand your your your goals and it's okay if you you change it's no problem but with no heavy energy because then you will it's it's difficult to be a black blah blah because people right outside you but inside if you have the same pressure you always like anxious or angry or and this this these feelings makes you

37:51feel lost you you lost your track because you're too angry to do things or you're too or you're too anxious to think in different way so we deserve to it's it's more than uh survive it's it's to to to to to to enjoy your life you know with with uh with a light energy with a light situation and enjoy it because you deserve it so um for my son i i do this do your best but in in a different way

38:23that my father and my mom said to me like i don't put pressure him to be 10 times better than anyone that them they they do yourself yourself you know i don't know if i was i told him like you need to be your best version for yourself and this you need to find your way to understand that so arthur now i think it was two years ago he starts to do um some psychologist um sections the beginning he was like my mother i'm black i'm a man i don't need this so i told him like you need you need to understand

38:59you and you need to have a professional who don't put you in a bad situation someone who really has who really has the skills to help you to understand yourself so do it you know with no judgment because the first beginning was like no i don't need no you need everyone needs to understand uh and and and and the other thing that i i learned him and then this is from my family is like i wake up every morning and say you deserve this you deserve this you deserve it and uh also with money

39:33i respect my money i want to have more money in my pocket for do whatever i want to do so i respect my money i'm because here we don't know in in your country but black people and money they have a problem because it's it's something that don't match and i i always say no match i really want to earn money and i spend my money i don't i i i'm very uh respectful with my money and i have a balance so i save money yes but i do like a trip a very cool one like two times two times uh a year that i want to do

40:09you know it's a balance because i got cancer uh when i three years ago and then i realized that life is today you know so i save money for sure but i also save money for enjoy life and i really want to have like a fancy uh experience i have money for that that's that's uh that's a very very nice way to live uh yeah we we like just to close um so like i would like to ask you to become the person you are

40:42like today do you thought do you think like you were lucky person or you had to work i think it's true this year in the same time i'm a lucky person because i i uh if i have opportunity in my in front of me i take it i take it i i have no i have no problem i have i'm not afraid to take it um as i told you they i they invite me to be a manager at facebook and i uh has i my my experience with uh

41:14social media market marketing what it's less right i'm designer then i told her like yeah i will it but then can you give me like um a course for i understand better uh about marketing uh focus on social media she told me like for sure and i told her like could you give me like um some persons that i can talk about it for understand better their journey because then you have like the the the

41:45official information and you have someone who is specialized on that and then she says yes so i made a lot of interviews a lot and now i have my uh my network internet to work with a lot of people and i love artificial intelligence intelligence so i really have a lot of discussion with you know how to hack the system even because the race is is here right so i always like i'm not afraid to have a challenge and i really felt like i i'm i can do that i can tell you more if i'm black if i'm not black

42:20and me man if i was if i i born um a white man i will be a president today i have no no no doubt about this okay that's a very strong statement i think that's gonna be the title of the police podcast i will be a president you understand because i have the same idea i know that since day one and i saw you i really i'm very sensitive so i always say like i always are to tell this to me i can't tell this to

42:53you when i met someone i have two things that i look like i look this mind and heart and when i saw you i saw that you have a balance with your mind and your heart so you are special so you you understand what i i'm talking about because you you think the same way i i have this feeling that you understand me thank you so like uh just to close uh and that it was a fantastic interview i learned a lot here like i and i believe my like that the audience also gonna get like a lot of

43:28a lot of uh a lot of really good insights from you awesome that that's that's focus right yeah so like to close do you have any question for me oh yeah okay um i was very impressed when i um i was talking to erico about yourself and erico told me um that you do this this word class design and a lot of people and uh also this idea that have people from all our world not only people from europe or

44:00from us right and uh i would like to understand uh your first your first thoughts for studies i mean why you you did this you did this you have a reason right i mean you have a uh propose i don't know and i really was like shock because you're very strategic and you're very young and uh i'm still uh in a very respectful way in love with you i told you my son like you need to have him as a mentor

44:31because you he's a very good person for that he transformed his situation so i would like to know where you started with that because you're so young and for for another way around you're so big i mean with information the way you do things you're so mature with the connections people respect you a lot and uh yeah i really was i was really very impressed okay so like uh to answer your question i would say uh uh i really i always wanted to become like the best in what i do it's

45:05something personal i'm very obsessive person so if i have to do something and i'm not the best i'm not i'm not gonna do it like it's just part of me um and like these ambitions of doing things globally started with a podcast team ferris podcast for people who follow me know know already that i'm big fan of team of team ferris so i had a podcast who interviews like world-class performers i remember the day that i listened to maria sharapova interview maria sharapova is a very famous tennis and uh

45:39uh she was describing how she became a really like a really good tennis player so after listening to a lot of episodes like team ferris interviewing people who are really good on what they do in the world on their professions i was like you know what if what maria sharapova had to do to become this good is like this training uh like was this intense she required a lot of discipline and time i think i can do the same i think i can become a world-class designer myself and i i do believe that i can become one of

46:10the best and best designers in the world and so i decided to train myself and to become the person that i want to be like the best designer in the world so like meeting this all these people's organizing all these events now like uh starting the school we're going to be launching the school pretty soon uh it's part of this journey so how do i become like a world-class designer so the mission ended up becoming bigger because i've realized that i can become a world-class designer but i can take a

46:42lot of people with me oh yeah so now it's not about gideon anymore it's about how many african designers i can make or can bring with me to the spotlight so yeah basically is what i'm trying to do yeah you're amazing and and i can tell you here because you'll be recorded right that if you need me for anything my my door is more than open for you because i'm really you you know that i really like you a lot i mean i think you you came for for had a better word you are a truly change maker

47:14and this is something that uh it's it's very rich thank thank you for coming since i like i also admire a lot of your work and your courage and and your experience i think you definitely uh an inspiration for a lot of people in brazil and in the world at all like as a black woman so yeah like the respect is reciprocal so like to close this now let's say thank you for your time and i think like my audience uh will have like a really good time listening to your your your your lecture and like going through

47:48your experience because you have definitely you have a lot a lot to teach uh so yeah like it's a very few times that i i find people like you where when everything the person talks is like makes you think a lot about your life so so thanks for making the time and to be on the podcast no for me it's a pleasure and um my goal after you know i got a cancer and then when i realized that i stay here it's because i need to change something so i have this in my mind and um we need to spread this

48:21information you can do whatever you want to do uh have no no for us you know we are change makers all the time and as a black we born change maker because if we don't do that we are in a really bad situation so it's for me it's a pleasure okay uh so everyone uh until the next episode uh like i hope uh you enjoyed this much this one as much as i did so see you next time