Introducing Tesla Roadster... Again

Welcome and intro chatter

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1:36Jira.com. That's spelled J-I-R-A dot com. Like, they have this metal key that actually sticks into the car and turns, which they got rid of in the 9-11. Oh. They have a lot of things like- Wait, so it's a key? Well, it's not, like, shaped like a key. It's a key fob. You just described a regular key. I realize what I'm doing. I realize what I'm doing.

2:01Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez. I'm Andrew. I'm David. Over at the producer table today, Ellis and Mariah holding it down. And we got a doozy. A doo-o-o-o-o-o-oh. I tried. I can't believe- I typed it. You read it. I appreciate you going for it. We got a doozy today. Mainly because there's two gigantic things that happened in the last week. Right, right after- that's funny. Right after we shot last week's podcast was a massive car event.

2:32Obviously, the Porsche Mission S event. Oh, and sorry. Also, I think, wasn't there another one? Oh, yeah. The Tesla Roadster. Toyota Camry event. the Tesla Roadster, and there was the embargo for Surface Duo Reviews is up, so we have been using Surface. I said Surface Duo. I thought you were making another joke. I should have leaned into it. I should have leaned into it. My brain is... Anyway, iPhone Duo Reviews are out. We've been using it. David, you have yours. It's the blue one. The blue one. White one. The colors are... Here's mine. I forgot the names of the colors. They're like light sky

3:03and dark sky, basically. Yeah, and we have our thoughts. The reviews are out, and we can talk all about what it's been like to use them and daily these things. But first, did they even test this? Mariah has one. She said, potentially. I have a minor complaint. That's what this is for. This whole thing is minor complaints. We've been getting bugs fixed for weeks now. This is great. That's right. I don't know what I did. Good start. I don't know if I enabled developer settings or something in my Samsung, and it involuntarily

3:35enrolled me in the new beta software for one UI. And what that means is that I got one voicemail three weeks ago, and that means I got a notification I have a voicemail. Every time I dismiss it, it comes back within five minutes. Oh, yeah, I've had this. I have a perpetual notification that I have a voicemail when I do not. I've had this. I've had this exact issue, and it is a Samsung issue. The voicemail notification never goes away. Now, I'm trying to remember how I got rid of it, because I think there was something about... I think you have to install

4:05the visual voicemail app, and then read it in that app, and then it goes away or something. See, that would make sense. See, I didn't do anything. And then this morning, my phone said, oh, it's time to update, and you don't have to be in the beta anymore. And I'm like, that's what I want. And we're so backed. No, I've definitely had that issue, and the fact that it's still an issue suggests that either no one's tested or no one cares. I think notifications that don't go away might be one of the most annoying bugs in any software.

4:36Definitely. It happens in Slack all the time, where there's just the dot on my dock on my computer, or it will say somewhere in the sidebar, the icons that there's something, and I'll click everything. That's another thing. I think that's a Slack thing. All the time, the Slack app will have a little badge next to it with notifications, and I'll go, oh, I thought I read all of them. And then I'll open it, and Slack will be like, you don't have anything. And then I'll close it, and it's gone. That's a recent issue, I feel like. No, Slack always has issues. Slack's been doing that for a long time.

5:07Maybe my phone just started doing that. Slack will be like, yo, you have an unread mention, and I'll go, and it's something that I've actively replied to like multiple, like, how is this unread? Well, you replied, you didn't click on it. So you gotta click on it. No, Gmail definitely has this issue, too, because it says that I have 9,317 unread emails. Yeah, and you only have 9,315. I recently emailed you 9,300 times, so that's actually, it's gonna check out perfectly. Yeah, it's all spam. Yeah, it's all spam. Well, I'm sorry, Mariah. I hope Samsung hears this and fixes it imminently.

5:39They won't. They won't. Maybe. Maybe. We did get one fixed the other day. I actually got the megaphone issue we had with the dropdown that showed every single post by minute. Oh, they changed it? They changed it, and not only did they change it, but actively someone messaged me and said, hey, I brought this to the attention of people, and they said, but they were already working on it. So, I'm taking credit. We're taking credit. Were they? We did this. There was the Google Maps thing where it started showing the speed before you would even leave. You got that changed. Android Auto, yeah.

6:10Android Auto, I feel. I think we need the, you know. There's the killed by Google website, right? Fixed by waveform. We need fixed by waveform. That's a good call. That's a good call.

Living with the iPhone Duo

6:20Well, hey, speaking of, speaking of did they even test this, what has it been like to live with the iPhone Duo the past week and a half? I have so many thoughts. There are so many big stories with it. One of the biggest stories with it is the app story, which is that, well, most developers don't have an iPhone Duo, and they have had the ability to develop for the Duo, but I think most of them like to have a physical device and would like to spend extra time with it to make sure their apps are perfect. So, the past week and a half of using it, and I think for probably the first two, three weeks of people

6:51getting them and unboxing them and starting to move into them, you will find that most apps have not been tested with it. Did they even test this? No. No. They are unoptimized apps. Yeah. And that just basically means there's like a bar down the side and they look a little weird and kind of ugly and they're not optimized to use the space at all. But when they do get optimized, they look so good, and every time I see like new app updates available and I get another app that like checks the box for like Duo support, I get so happy. So, as of right now, there's like three apps. The weird thing is that

7:21there are three states of optimization for Duo. There's like not updated to iOS 27 at all. Yeah. There's updates. A lot of Google apps. Yeah. A lot of Google apps. There's updated to iOS 27, and then there's 27.1. Just 27 has like partial Duo support, and 27.1 has like full Duo support. I barely consider it Duo support. I just consider it like kind of stretching it to be bigger. Yeah. Or like putting more of the background in the area. The Google Calendar interior screen one

7:52was the craziest thing I've ever seen. Yeah. It somehow feels worse. Do you use Google Calendar? I do use Google Calendar. Have you looked at it on the interior screen? I have. I'm trying to think of what, I mean, yeah, besides that. So we were doing it at the lunch table the other day. So you open it, and it stays the exact same size. Yeah. And then we were like, oh, rotate it. It'll fit that better. No. The first time you rotate it, it actually gets smaller somehow because it's a vertical thing. I don't know. There is that expand button.

8:23There's also the rotate button. Yeah. Which makes it wide. Which makes it wide. Which is, now it went away. Yeah. See, here's the problem. I can't find the button again. Oh, there it is. Yeah. It's a little rough. It's a little rough. I will say, so for unoptimized apps that are like fully unoptized, like Google Apps or RIP Arc Search, my favorite mobile browser, which they will not update. So sad. Because Arc is dead, so I need to find a new browser. It effectively uses the iPhone 18 Pro aspect ratio.

8:55Well, not aspect ratio, but the width. Width, yeah. It's like the exact same width as the iPhone 18 Pro, and this makes sense because developers have already coded for that. But then you just get this giant black bar on the right, and it looks pretty rough. And the duo's like, this is where I'd put the extra controls. If I had them. If I had them, but it doesn't have them. Yeah, or just move the controls to that side. It's tough with Google Calendar too because you have that plus button right, it's right there next to the black bar and it's covering things. And it's like, if this was moved over 40 pixels, it would be perfect. I'm also going to be honest, I don't always love

9:27having the controls on the right side. Like it's a smart idea for reachability, but it's not where I always anticipate things to be. Even the dock, like they put the dock on the right side of the screen. And I'm still, this is probably just muscle memory, but I'm still hitting the bottom left because that's where Pocket Casts always used to be for me. And then I opened Telegram by accident. Yeah, it's a little bit of muscle memory. I do find it nice though because the unoptimized apps still have all the stuff at the bottom that is harder to reach because it's further away from the edge. Yeah. So the big philosophical idea

9:57with Duo, I guess if you haven't seen the reviews, is basically it moves all the controls from the bottom over to the side, moves all the controls from the top also over to the side. And that includes like your time and your cell signal and the grouping of the status indicators. Yeah. Yeah. Can I ask a question? Yeah. Yeah. We're complaining about it being not optimized specifically on this, but for other foldables, I assume this is a typical thing that always happens at launch or is this not true? Sort of, but also not because they completely redesigned how the interface

10:28works on this phone. On the front specifically and the thing on the inside, I don't know, that's what shocks me the most is like there are things in foldables that aren't well optimized, but that Google calendar on the interior screen of that is like bad, bad. But like, so does this happen on the new Samsung fold? Yeah. So on these Android foldables and a lot of Android apps are much better at, I guess, scaling to a bunch of different sizes because there's so many different size Android phones in the first place. So iPhones have just been the same aspect ratio

10:58year after year after year and all iPhone apps are easy to develop because all iPhones look the same. And so on Android phones like this, like this Z Fold 8, for example, apps fill up the screen. There's no black bar down the side and then they can have occasional weird hiccups or bugs with like actively changing between the inside and outside screen. but then on the iPhone, I keep saying Surface, on the iPhone Duo, it just looks like a normal iPhone app on the side and then a black bar, which is a little bit more jarring and it's a little more obvious

11:28when it's not well optimized. But I think Apple's strength is getting developers on board with this sort of stuff over time. And so my like line near the end of the review is like, if you're still thinking about buying one and you're like trying to decide, if you do buy it now, you won't get it for another two months and by then, way more apps will be optimized and you'll have a better time. Hopefully. Hopefully. Yeah, Google has so many teams on so many of their apps that it's gonna, I don't even know if half the apps are gonna be optimized. And the benefit of this versus like when foldables were first

11:59getting launched eight years ago or whatever is like, they know they're just gonna have to make it for this one that's like this and it's iPhone, that's what's the benefit of making for iPhone. As long as they keep the same display size. As long as they keep the same display size, which I think they will. I think they probably will. I don't think they're gonna change that. Where like before it was Wild West, we have Android manufacturers all over the place making all these different aspect ratio foldables and everyone developing was probably like, oh my gosh. That's why I already had to make so many for those slab phones and this too. I mean,

12:29that's why Google had to come in and hyper-optimize Android for flexible screen sizes because they just knew like there are too many types of Android phones. You can't hard code for every single possible screen size. Yeah. My overarching thoughts on this phone is that it doesn't really feel like a phone, which is something I really like. It feels like a single task oriented device where I think of something I want to do and I go do it and I think that that has to do with the fact that one, it's very short and squat so it's like kind of a worse experience in that way.

13:00And then anytime I want the experience to actually be good, I have to open it and the friction of needing to open your phone and then do the thing and then physically shutting it when you're done, it feels like I'm onto this task, now I'm done. I'm onto this task, now I'm done. It's funny because I'm pretty sure the way they want this to be marketed is you saying like it's really bad at doing all those things. Like this is supposed to be like multitasking, big screen, lots of different things to do, like use your phone so much for all these things and you're saying like, oh,

13:31it almost feels like you're saying I'm going to be less distracted because I'm going to have to think so hard about the things I have to do. That actually is what it is for me. For you, but I don't think that's how they would want to market this thing. I think they would want this thing to be like, this does everything you could ever want to do, be distracted, be on this. They're the ones that made a case that physically goes over the front screen. That case is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. No, I like it. I think it's stupid. I like it. That's like an iPad type thing, like the folio cases for the iPad, they do the same thing. It's like, it's closed and when I really want to be intentional about opening it, then I have to like decide to use it.

14:01Yeah. I do think that the back of this case is bad, so it only does this, but it doesn't do multiple angles. So when you have it open, like yes, you could do like a FaceTime or watch a video like that, but it's really not good for... Wait, I pushed it way further back. I mean, you can do that, but it's still unstable. What do you mean like vertical? Yeah, the kickstand for anyone listening. There's a kickstand and it has one good spot. Yeah. I had a similar thought with reviewing the hamburger style flips. Yeah, flips.

14:31With like the Z Fold. The intensity flip, for example. Yeah. You can't really accidentally just open your phone and start doom scrolling TikTok. Yeah. And that's kind of a good thing. Like, I don't think they market it that way, but that's kind of like a nice feature where you kind of have this barrier where you have to decide, all right, like the outside screen is just notification triaging and just like making sure I see text and then like closing it. I'm not going to doom scroll. Yeah. But if I like open the phone and decide to go use it, then I'm going to go use it. Yeah. And the Duo has a little bit of that

15:03because the outside screen is only five and a half inches. It's a little squat. It's not great for watching videos and you can kind of still do it, but there's a little bit of that intentionality. Everything is much smaller and it's just like not really a great experience. You see less information, especially when it's not optimized. It's like a much worse experience on the outside. So you can have a great experience if you open it up and then you do this and then you're like, oh, I have an iPad mini. But on the outside, it's like, so you have to be intentional about actually opening it. I think you guys underestimate people's doom scrolling abilities that they won't use the front screen. I really do think a lot of doom scrolling just comes from

15:35like the muscle memory of unlocking and locking your phone just like rapidly though, you know, without even thinking about it. You know, you saw the part in our video where Marques scrolls on TikTok and Instagram Reels at the same time, right? Yes, but like you have to intentionally like multitask that way. that takes several steps to like open it up, unfold it, open one, stroll to the side, open the other one and then starts flipping and then you do it. Assuming you haven't set up a shortcut for it. Yeah, that's true. I have found myself using two apps at the same time more often than I thought I would.

16:05Most of the time it's useful for copying information from one screen to another. That's so good for that. Yeah. Obviously, you can just multitask. You could just be in one app, copy and then swipe over and be on the next app. But it's just nice to see it on the left. One of the most useful ones, I sometimes get parking tickets because I forget to move my car because we have alternate sides sweeping and every single time I pay the ticket, I have to insert my bank info, like my routing number and my account number which is 728. No, I'm kidding.

16:35And yeah, it's specifically with like banking apps because they like black out when you're multitasking. Yeah. I have to like really remember what it is every time I go so I can have them both open at the same time and actually just type it in and it's much easier. Yeah. Or like flight information if I want to add it to flighty, that kind of stuff, all very helpful. Battery life, insanely good. You had a great battery life experience. I had like a solid battery life experience but it seems like you were having amazing battery life. And again, it might be because I'm just like not opening it as much. I'm using this booklet case

17:06and this might help because the screen's on way less of the time. It's like completely off when the case is closed. My other question about your use, what's your ratio of open screen to closed screen use? Someone asked me that on Twitter. I think it's about 50-50 but I don't know how much of that is the novelty of it being a folding phone. Yeah. I was kind of predicting, maybe I'm projecting a little bit in my review but I think at first it's very fun to open it up all the time. It's very satisfying. You're just like playing with the apps and stuff and then like a month or two later,

17:37especially on the candy bar shaped ones, you just start using like a regular phone and you have to remember that you can open it and I'm curious if like I said in my review you'd probably be like 75% outside screen, 25% inside screen. We'll see how it turns out for people but my battery life was pretty good like B+, like six hours of screen on time, extra battery at the end of the day and all that but a little worse than the Pro Max but I think if I used way more inside screen that might not be as good. Probably. Just because it's more pixels to drive. No, on that point

18:08of like the candy bar style phones, Alex was showing me a photo on his Pixel Fold 2 or whatever it was and he was showing me on Google Photos on his just front screen and I was like, dude, open it up and he was like, oh, that's so much work. So I was like, why did you buy this phone? The whole point of it is to open it up and like if you have a perfectly fine normal phone experience on the front screen, you don't have as much incentive to actually open the phone. So making it a worse experience on the front display does give you incentive to use the inner display which I understand is a cop out. It's really funny.

18:39I totally understand that's a cop out. It's like so bad that you have to use the good feature. It's $2,000. I know. I think like you mentioned with the flip before, it almost feels closer to a flip because of that where it's like the front screen is starting to be like the on the go usage and then I think people will use the inner screen way more if public transportation commute is part of your everyday life. If there's lots of things you're doing like entertainment or whatever where you don't have

19:10to be in control of anything else, you can just be fully focused on your phone. Yeah. Like plane rides, whatever. So that I think it'll be more and then the front is just like reply, do something, check something really fast, look at a Google map, then you're good. Something real quick. Yeah. I loved that it was really nice in portrait similar to the Z Fold 8. There's a lot of similarities between these phones but I really liked that that phone sort of made that behavior feel more natural. It's like a small tablet in vertical and on this phone,

19:41this iPhone Duo, the volume buttons are on the side so the sort of correct orientation is like with the cameras up at the top here, the volume buttons are where they would normally be on like a normal phone. Oh, true. That's a great point. And Touch ID is at the top so it's kind of like a normal iPad set up here. Yeah. And I liked doing that a lot with the iPhone Duo. It is really nice to just have basically an iPad mini in your pocket and when you're reading an article you can just like read it on the display. The volume rockers

20:11when it's closed are annoying to use. They look really annoying. Because you have to like wrap your phone around it and then just finding which one is volume down and volume up is very annoying. This whole thing from when I've seen Marquez use it is like there are so many things that they did a good job of in terms of reachability by fixing it yet then they still have a bunch of things on it that are a pain in the neck for reachability. The fact that the swipe downs are still right, middle, and left for what? Settings, Siri, notifications. Like if you're moving all the things to the right then you should have

20:41nothing in the top left corner. That's a pain in the neck to swipe. I saw hand gymnastics. Yeah. So like it feels like here's the reason why this is great. Ignore the reason why this over here is bad. We're going to forget about that. Many times it is difficult to like get your notification shade to come down because you accidentally just activate Siri instead. Michael Fisher was specifically complaining about that to me. I'm surprised. His touch target was I mean see it just did it just pulled down Siri. Why is Siri not in a different place that's easier to do like a hold the power button?

21:12It does still do that. Yeah. Wait that does activate Siri? Yeah. Then the two thirds of the top left should just be notifications. That would be nice. Like give you more room for notifications so you don't have to go all the way to the left corner. I think it's because they built Siri to come out of the dynamic island on the regular iPhones. So they decided to make it in the same spot on the Duo even though the selfie camera is on the mic. No you're right. They should have changed it. This is like you said there's so many polished parts that they kind of overshadow how many parts it feels like they just straight up missed on. I agree. There's like a lot of things that they completely redesigned

21:44for this phone and there's some things they just didn't and like the friction between those two things makes the phone sometimes a little bit weird. Yeah. There's a little more thinking. Yeah. I also will say that a lot of the hand gymnastics stuff is more annoying because the phone is slightly thicker slightly heavier and slightly slipperier with the titanium like curved rails. I dislike the rails so much and I'm not an iPhone user so I'm not used to like the slick rails but the first time I held this I was just like oh my goodness I feel like I'm going to drop this and then just to add on to all the things you said and the fact that

22:15it's a $2,000 phone you really don't want to drop. Yeah. And then the Z Fold 8 which is you know also basically $2,000 but it has it's thinner it's lighter and the rails are flat and matte and it's just way easier to maneuver like I don't find nearly as many issues with like moving the phone around in my hand opening and closing it I love using that phone because of how easy it is to maneuver and then of course it's Android so you can like pull down from the top and it's all the quick settings and notifications so I don't have like the reachability to the corner issue. So that's a big difference

22:47and that's why I kept calling it like first gen feeling hardware in my review I think a second gen iPhone Duo in my dream world okay in my dream world it has like a silicon carbon battery and like an extra camera obviously but it also actually gets thinner flat sides matte and like makes Even thinner? Yes. They can't put Face ID in if it's even thinner. So the thing about Face ID I know that's what I'm saying. All right so the annoying part let's talk about that. I think a lot of people are going to miss Face ID

23:17on the iPhone Duo because everyone uses Face ID on the current iPhone. I 100% miss it on the iPhone Duo. The thing about the touch on the fingerprint reader this Touch ID is it has a built-in delay Yeah. where you have to swipe and then touch or you can have like tap and then touch rest your finger there for like two whole seconds and then it opens automatically. Yeah but you still have to like wake the phone before you do it otherwise nothing happens. Yeah. And so it just feels slow. Yeah. And I wish it was way faster. I wish I could remove that delay.

23:47I wish I could just like tap it wake it up and it opens instantly like all the Android phones. I showed that in the video too. Yeah. I you know and they don't do like Face Unlock without Face ID. That's their own philosophy. I wish they did. Security stuff. So now it's like I wish it had like a much faster fingerprint reader experience. It's specifically very annoying on Apple Pay because you have to double tap and then you have to like hold it and then it goes oh make sure you authenticate with your fingerprint and then you have to authenticate with your fingerprint and then you have to tap. It's like a it's like a four-step process.

24:18But it's just like you hold it down for a while and it goes through all those one by one but slowly. I think that's a feature because everyone who buys this phone wants the person at the cash register to know you're paying with an iPhone Duo and you need to hold it out as long as possible. Yeah. It's just yeah Face ID is just much faster in most ways and a lot of people on my socials have been like just unlock with Apple Watch just use the Apple Watch so I don't wear an Apple Watch guys. That's what they want. They want you to be like yeah everything's easier in our ecosystem but I don't want to wear an Apple Watch.

24:49Yeah. Can you tap to pay with this open? Oh how much is that bacon and cheese? Hold on let me I was actually thinking about that. I have a flight later today and I am for sure scanning my boarding pass like oh no. That's like have you seen the people who joke with their friends at the airport and they print out their boarding pass on like a poster card? Did you guys see the guy who put a QR code on his bald head and then tried to scan it to get on the train? That probably wouldn't work because your head's curved but yeah. It did work. So a couple other things I am

25:19I really like the apps that have been sort of optimized to just look like a Mac app like Slack. Slack needs a little bit more optimization they actually tweeted at me today and said that they're working on it right now. Please. Can you tweet at them for a couple other things that I have accused with? Well let's just use it as did they even test this and maybe we'll get fixed but it looks just like the Mac app where it's got like all your conversations on the side and then it's got the main thing right here. Same with like Apple Messages you have like all of your contacts here with the actual text here. I think that's awesome and because of this

25:50I really want the accessory ecosystem for this thing to get crazy so I can like have it you know sitting on a desk and use it with like a little mini keyboard that's specifically made for this. Can I ask you really quick so in Apple Messages it has like your contacts on the left and the message on the right. Can you press in the where you type what does the keyboard look like? It like pops up on the whole screen. It's over the whole thing. Oh but it does bring just the write up. I think that's fine. Yeah it just brings the write up. The Slack one looked really nice except for the black bar on the right. There is a black bar on the right.

26:21That black bar drives me insane. They will almost definitely be moving the bubbles on the bottom to the right side and they said they're working on it so yeah so I really I want all of the app developers that make desktop apps to just make the unfolded experience just like the desktop app because then I want to be able to have my phone on a desk and just use a little mini keyboard and get some work done. If Google Docs was optimized please Google please because Safari what is Google Docs right now? It's so bad

26:52exactly what you think of me. It's one vertical page It's the same as calendar It's the same It's the same as calendar It's bad It's horrible Something like Safari is actually awesome because it literally shows all the tabs at the top just like on desktop Like a browser That's cool It looks just like a desktop browser I just want and I want that for every app I know we did but if like a Samsung Fold did this or whatever Twitter would be losing its mind I mean I'm sure there's still parts that are So like Android apps the Android version would at least stretch it out and scale it to fit the screen

27:22Yeah But obviously then there's like extra work that Google can do to make it really take advantage of all the space Apple is just kind of like turn it sideways Yeah You're using it wrong Would you say the consumer experience is better for a second gen product because that's what I'm hearing You mean will be better for a second gen Yeah No question Yeah So I think that's kind of where a lot of the reviews landed which I tend to agree with It's a first gen product So early adopters tech enthusiasts people like you and I

27:53who are excited about the fringe rough around the edges stuff like the apps being weird like that stuff we're willing to deal with but there's lots of other first gen products where you kind of learn from the early adopters and all that stuff and then two or three generations later it starts to find itself and that's where it's good enough for regular people to buy That's what iPad was That's what Apple Watch was That's what MacBook Air was and I think that's what my iPhone Duo is It's going to be hopefully I'm fingers crossed I think it will be really good in like two or three generations Yeah Fingers

28:24I think second gen will be better even just because way more apps will be optimized Yeah A lot of this stuff feels like the typical Apple move of we made all of this polish we just we don't use any apps that are outside of our own ecosystem so to us we don't see how there's anything wrong with this because we didn't like everything Apple works perfectly on it and everything that isn't it just feels like even though it's first gen in the sense of it's their first gen and we talked about how there's eight years of folding phones already

28:54this feels like there's too many issues even as their first gen because of all the stuff they should be noticing from other There's still Apple apps that are not optimized Okay I take that back then That looks terrible That's actually surprising that they allowed that to happen I agree Yeah but they still make it I agree I didn't even know there was an iOS But if that's the barometer because like Google has like 40 apps in the app store Yeah Google's not gonna update the bottom half of their apps that nobody uses with that same logic So like I hope Google Docs gets updated for example

29:25I really hope Google Calendar gets updated but what about the like 17th like slideshow app that they make or whatever other random stuff Like maybe Gemini is first and then whatever else happens happens Yeah

iPhone Duo camera quality

29:36We'll see

iPhone Duo camera quality

29:37Okay the camera situation is interesting Yes So the interior camera as we've mentioned has a hidden under display camera Cheeks What does that mean? Cheeks It's bad It's really bad It's cheeks Okay I don't know if I've heard that It's ass It's bad It's cheeks I think I've heard Miles say that but I didn't know It's 4 megapixels Oh Is it really? Yeah And it looks like it It looks worse than that Okay that's facts That's true That's 4 million pixels That's 4x the Dyson toothbrush 4x the Dyson toothbrush

30:07Sorry I should rephrase It is 4 million pixels We're really used to way more pixels than that though Yeah It also looks like it's shooting through a lattice fence Which it kind of is It is Yeah literally If it was Google Photos they could just remove the fence So okay A couple of things It'll be a callback They call it the FaceTime camera on purpose That's because in FaceTime it actually looks pretty good Because they're doing video processing They do video processing on it that kind of removes that pretty well and it looks very decent It definitely has a little bit

30:38of halation and like glow because of the way the light's being bent around those lattices Yeah But overall like when you take a photo with it it looks like cheeks Yeah As you would say If there's a light source in this photo it's like Anything behind you holding it up and it's like it's pretty bad and then this little light behind me peers out and it's like God is shining It's like Sinistil 800T Take a photo and now look at the photo It's so funny I don't know where to look The post processing is way worse Oh my It's terrible Yeah That looked terrible in the preview

31:08and then in the actual Zoom in at all Zoom in at all and you're just like oh I mean yeah It's bad And we're in a very well This looks like someone hacked my camera on my laptop in the middle of the podcast Yeah But as you'll notice the preview is actually pretty decent and that's because like the video processing they're doing is okay That's so funny Yeah So there's that The rear camera is definitely worse than the 18 Pro I saw that across the board for sure There's so much over sharpening It kind of feels like

31:39the iPhone camera felt like four generations ago Like it's okay Like in worse lighting obviously it falls apart and the ultra wide especially like there's no type of sharpness in the ultra wide Yeah But it still has the same look as the main cameras from like an 18 Pro Yeah The general like higher level of shadow detail and like the colors are typically the same Yeah But the second you pixel peep it does feel like an iPhone 15 The funny thing is that the ultra wide is pretty much the same quality as the main and that's saying something because ultra wide

32:09is usually terrible In the middle The ultra wide is good in the middle but at least in my experience What do you mean in the middle? Like in the middle So I take an ultra wide photo the middle section of the ultra wide looks fine Oh I see what you're saying But then you look at anything that's not in the middle and boy is it noisy and soft And that's fine Like you're still getting the detail That's what ultra wide they're mostly just the utility of being able to see more Yeah But yeah It's the same ultra wide as on the 18 Pro which is cool But yeah I mean ultimately they want you to take selfies either with the front facing camera

32:40which actually is pretty decent Or or by flipping it around Yeah However and they've like said you should do this and they did make it like a cool UI interface for doing it where you switch to selfie mode and then you pull it around here and slide to unlock slide to show camera and you can do that You can see the photo you're taking before you take it but holding the phone I know and taking this is extremely hard There's a lot of hand gymnastics The natural thing you would want to do is probably do this and then it's like I'm going to drop this A lot of hand gymnastics

33:11I'm going to drop this The only thing I found it useful for was I put on the timer and then I did this and I took a selfie of me and my friend and we put it on my backpack and it was actually useful in that way Other than that this is extremely hard to do and I would just recommend using the front camera I'm so glad you said that This is one thing that didn't quite make it into my video It made it in a little bit and I thought like if I if I hammered on this for too long it would feel like nitpicking unnecessarily but it's just there's a lot of weird

33:42extra like hard to hold moments with the hand gymnastics like the camera control is the bottom corner so if this is a righty phone like this and camera control is down here it's a little thing like I'm about to spend five minutes on the pod if I did five minutes in the video they'd be like why are you still talking about this but like this is like kind of a weird thing but okay you're probably turning it sideways so it's okay then the volume buttons are at the top and there's this extra shuffle that you do to like get there then what you're talking about which is like you open it and then you flip it around and then you get the camera open and you have to switch it to selfie and then you flip it over

34:13and don't touch the back screen you might mess it up and then like slide okay now you've got the controls now you have to not touch the lenses and like hopefully get it like a photo set up but now your finger's in it so maybe other hand like all this stuff it's just a lot of weird hand motions and stuff with this this is why I want all of these crazy cases to come out because they're gonna have like origami and s*** that will make this easier maybe yeah do you know when like you're trying to take a photo and someone comes up to you and you're like would you like me to take a photo of you guys you're gonna be like you don't know how

34:43no not even you don't know how like I don't trust you holding this thing like right now you're gonna drop this or I would be like just kidding I'm not okay best case scenario you set it up for them right so you open it up you open the camera app you turn on Duo Preview so that you can see that they're gonna do it right and then you hand it to them like this and you go alright a little higher a little further guide them and then you can get the exact shot you want except now that somebody offers you and then they direct me for like 10 minutes I was like I was doing y'all a favor let's chill out here

35:13yeah so yeah I hope that they had a telephoto in the next one I wish they could have a bigger sensor but that's just not gonna be possible I don't think unless they figure out some special physics but who knows right now I'm like really missing the telephoto lens but I also really missed it on the iPhone Air and that's just a compromise yeah I think the battery is good enough that they can use extra room to add a camera yeah like the telephoto I kind of agree with that yeah and they'll just be like well the A21 Pro

35:43is even more efficient so there's even more battery life did you guys miss this has fusion camera seven lenses in my pocket that's the other thing and maybe they should have called it the Duo Pro or something but they don't have Pro Raw and they don't have Pro Res and they don't have well they have Pro Motion obviously but they don't have any of those like Pro features on the Pro Phone and I understand they still have to sell Pro iPhones but the Pro iPhone is half the price of this thing and I just think if you make the most expensive thing you should make should have all the features of the ones below it

36:14price wise so yeah there's no reason they couldn't have done Pro Raw they took it out intentionally it's the same processor as the Pros they should be able to do that stuff you shouldn't get better features on a thing that costs a thousand dollars less yeah that seems insane that's a very valid take it's just the yeah the Pro iPhone has to get the Pro stuff I know but it is a Pro iPhone it's just not you know yeah it's like if you're the iPhone filmmaker in that specific way of being a Pro iPhone user then you obviously get the one

36:44with the better cameras even though real filmmakers like 4x3 more than they like 21x9 yeah it's also are you going to edit on the phone or not because if you are then maybe you do get the one with the worst cameras because it has the better screen to edit on well I don't know this is a better screen to edit on that's what I'm saying I think yeah maybe that's their plan so you buy the iPhone 18 Pro Max to film everything and then transfer it all to your iPhone Duo to then edit on the inside no one's editing on that thing I'm not going to edit on that somebody out somebody out there

37:14who doesn't like there is a generation right now that does not have a computer that like does everything on their phone and this is kind of sick for that apparently CapCut on the inner display is actually really useful because you can see the full timeline you can see the full timeline on the right and then you can see your face is it optimized already yeah yeah there's a couple yeah good on CapCut and I will say on optimized apps developers out there I'm looking for alternatives for a lot of my apps right now so if you make a good alternative to like popular apps tweet at me or like email me because I will try it

37:45I really want to find because like if you're optimized first I'm going to try it there's some shit that I'm like I use every day and I can't it just sucks it's so bad

Two-phone switching and accessory ecosystem

37:53alright here's a take I want to ask you about that I've seen a couple places Apple introduced this feature recently that is basically like the ability to hot swap your phone number slash data plan like quickly between iPhones I forget what it's called handoff handoff yeah and I saw people saying that they launched this around the Duo or the Air or whatever in the last year so that people could switch between a more experimental iPhone and then their main iPhone more quickly and then they own two iPhones

38:24and then do two iPhone stuff back and forth like a weekend iPhone and a workday iPhone Apple doesn't live in reality is that is that a valid theory or what do you think of that look I miss the camera features on my Pro but I'm not gonna buy two iPhones one that's $2,000 and one that's $1,200 just to do that but it's only $35 a month yeah think about it you're an Apple executive I don't think it's $35 you're in the boardroom they're like guys we have a problem we've saturated the market

38:55pretty much everyone who's gonna buy an iPhone has bought an iPhone except for Alex who just could anyway how do we get people to buy two iPhones yeah there you go I I don't I don't know about that I mean it's a it's obviously a feature that is only useful for people with two iPhones but then people were speculating on the timing of the release of the feature it's like oh this would've been cool when the mini came out cause the mini I don't know people didn't want to like fully dedicate their life to the mini but what if

39:25it was just like a like a daytime phone and then on like that's insane the mini is like one inch diagonally small it's not even that small but the fact that no one not enough people bought it and they had to discontinue it they're like maybe more people would've given it a shot if they could've like swapped back and forth I have no way do you remember the Palm phone the new Palm phone yeah that was like a one inch screen yeah 1.6 yeah but they it was the same idea it was like you had to pay Verizon extra money to have the same phone number and you it was your weekend phone where you couldn't do anything on it

39:56yeah it was the same idea but like yeah literally couldn't do lots of things on it yeah I mean you could cause it had Google Play and Android but it was horrible what if we just like take the SIM card and we put it in the other phone oh there's no SIM card SIM card yeah I know yeah I don't know about that the only thing I could try and think of is if like you have if your work phone and your phone happen to be the same but like you want a work phone to be specifically not the same it's a different number yeah like I so I feel like that's look I miss

40:27I miss the camera features on the 18 Pro but I would rather just own this and then bring a real camera yeah yeah the I cut a section again from the review is the report card section it's a 30 minute review already so yeah but uh the little report card thing that I did with the MacBook Neo and the yeah and the Google Books I was gonna do that again and for the I got halfway into writing it and I was like what do I do for the creator because it is a worse camera but it is a better everything else yeah right like the screen on the inside

40:57for watching your videos back for editing for publishing like when those apps are optimized it's better at everything else but the cameras are worse so is this better for a creator than the 18 Pro some of the creators maybe fun fact I shot the whole Tesla Roadster reaction video on the iPhone Duo there were a few comments maybe two or three that I noticed to like oh what phone did you shoot this on but there was 20,000 comments about the subject of the video not the phone that I shot it on of course and I think that that's probably the the overall theory is that if the story is good enough

41:28if the video is good enough it doesn't matter what you shoot it on yeah but question did you shoot it with the back camera no that's again too much hand gymnastics I just did my old trusty this you did it with the back camera but not open back camera closed no viewfinder trust trust trust pure trust looks like it's facing me must be facing me because I took I was in Montreal this weekend and I took a very beautiful video of the fall foliage but the bottom part of the screen just had my finger in it so I'm surprised that you didn't have that issue oh I I've gotten used to

41:59I've shot so many autofocus videos that I know like how to hold a phone and like avoid that issue if I was like trying to do the right side of the phone so you're saying I was holding it wrong yeah you're holding it wrong yeah exactly tail as old as time tail as old as time well I'm super excited for the accessory ecosystem on this one thing I did notice MagSafe it has but a lot of MagSafe accessories don't really work very well for it explain because of the size the size yeah yeah the size so for example I have a MagSafe charger at home that it's like it's a flat charger and because of the

42:30positioning of MagSafe on this with the way that the bump or the plateau or whatever is it bumps up against the plateau constantly and it's like hard to get on the charger and you can technically get it on there but it doesn't feel like it fits flush on there the other thing is my car I guess this is not MagSafe but my car has chargers that are oriented for 21x9 esque phones 21x9 phones and it just can't charge my phone that's good because most cars are going to have it more narrow because it doesn't

43:00want to slide around when you're trying and that's not going to fit in there any wireless charger that is like at an angle and has your phone sitting up at an angle that does not have MagSafe will just not work for this phone because it's just too short I assume most like wallets as well that are MagSafe will not fit and the battery banks they'll be too big well yeah even if they do fit with the plateau they're going to hang off the bottom and just look like hell yeah yeah I mean even Apple's own like iPhone Air is just not going to work on this so Apple's going to have to develop new accessories

43:31manufacturers are going to have to develop accessories just for the duo wonder if they will or how many they will because like does it sell that well there's so limited supply like how many people are really going to have this is the other thing I wanted to talk about is that we made this like sort of bet which we will never that bet is null because we will never be able to tell what happened correct it is invalid because their demand was way way way way way ahead of supply above supply but that's all we know we don't know how many they made yeah so like

44:02pre-orders are moved until like January or February I've seen February some people are reporting they're getting them like pushed forward after they had a long but I still know plenty of people who are like this is a February yeah within like 10 minutes a lot of people got pushed to January and Apple is saying I mean Apple would always say our demand is insane but it seems like the demand is insane but also we have no idea how many they made yeah so we can't really actually see if my bet was correct or not no yeah I also think it could like lose some

44:32sales because people are like I think so many people ordering this want to order this because it's the new flashy iPhone thing and like there's a status symbol to this but if you have it three months late and that's the person you want to be yeah you've kind of lost the like it's nowhere near as much fun anymore yeah and at two thousand dollars if you're willing to pay that to be the flashy like gadget you don't want it three months late it's kind of the crazy thing like you think about it again you're like wow this starts at two thousand dollars and then after tax and everything and it's like if you're already going

45:03to buy a foldable phone and you're already prepared to spend that money then it's like yeah it's a great I mean it's the iPhone foldable it's awesome yeah but two thousand dollars on a phone is still an insane amount of money no matter how you slice it so when you could get a pro iPhone for twelve hundred brand new it's kind of like it's a little difficult to buy a gen one product yeah yeah my favorite line in a review that wasn't mine was in the Verge's review Neelai mentioned that every once in a while he'd find himself going back to his iPhone 18 pro

45:34to do something real quick and it was like a relief oh and I felt that a little bit just like the slab phone is the better phone right for most people it's been optimized for 20 years it's been optimized all the apps work perfectly the battery life is great like you're not making those trade-offs you have all three cameras like it's just the better safer easier phone for most people to get and it's just if you want to be at that bleeding edge then you will take the risk and you will clearly have a worse experience with some

46:04things and then you get the satisfying other fun stuff that comes with that what is kind of exciting about this existing though is that I think phones that are this size or at least that are foldable in this way are just going to go way more mainstream in general yeah because now that Apple makes this I mean all these Android manufacturers already make them but the volume they ship is very low but I think that Android foldable phone volume will go up and also now Apple is like they're doubling down on this right yeah so I think

46:35that the form factor of a phone will not be as clear cut in five years it'll be like there's this phone and then there's this phone I think that's awesome oh that was one other thing I was wondering do you think that there will be multiple versions of the Duo in the future oh god please no you don't think so I think we have a possible future like whenever certain cars come out you're like well I know they're going to make a convertible version later so I'm going to wait like is there going to be a Duo Pro like one with triple cameras I think it needs to

47:05last the two years make sure it doesn't get killed and then we'll start talking about that it would have to be like three grand they're not going to have any problem with that they're happy to sell something three grand interesting I don't know I don't know anyway that's kind of the thoughts you should watch the review it's 30 minutes long I really liked your comparison of it to Vision Pro of like they did all of these things that makes this feel so high quality and so many things they did right like how

47:35great the glass looks on the Vision Pro how great the clicking experience was and then when you start using it you're like I kind of wish I had some of the not polished things because usability wise they're just better yeah yeah well we'll see developers developers developers and then second gen we'll see how it goes that's the whole story that could have been an alternate title iPhone do a review developers developers wait for the second gen get Steve Ballmer in here ASAP

Upcoming Apple event and MacBooks

48:04yeah alright Techtober is a thousand years long this is pretty quick though yeah because I think we've talked about it a billion times already pro and tell pro and tell really I like I thought that was an okay one every single one of their event invites is a really cheesy I know but this one's worse they're all well it's clear what we're about to get which is a new pro device and we seem to all be on the same page that the headliner will be a brand new MacBook Pro you don't think it'll be a HomePod Pro Mini I would bet anything and there's

48:35also iPad mini OLED refresh updates that are sort of floating around as well but I think the thing I'm interested in and what the invite kind of references is a touchscreen OLED MacBook Pro now what will you do with the touchscreen MacBook Pro I don't really know yet will it be pencil support or just finger support I don't really know yet will it be 10 bazillion dollars I don't really know yet it has to have pencil support it seems likely but also the iPhone Duo is

49:06just now getting a software update to 27.2 that enables pencil support for a pencil that wasn't made for it and everyone kind of wants like a pencil made for the Duo instead of just using like an old iPad pencil for it is there going to be a new pencil for a MacBook Pro I don't know if I want to use the old ones for it I don't know yet I mean I still think that they didn't even need to do the touchscreen and they could have just added pencil support to the enormous haptic trackpad because it's basically the same size as a small Wacom tablet trackpad is interesting too

49:36they should have done that so long ago but the technology is different in a screen and how it senses versus like this metal trackpad it's really good for fingers I don't know see there's a lot of questions we don't know it is hard to do pencil support on a screen means the hinge like touching is one thing but drawing this hinge would need to be and there are rumors that there is a reinforced hinge to accommodate it but like if you are doing a lot of drawing with a pencil on the screen it has to be rock solid almost like a kickstand on the back in order to use this as Tim

50:06the only one who uses a tablet to draw stuff does Olivia not use one does she do so we have two tablet users I don't know I think I have to give it to them because the main thing I've talked about this in videos before there's lots of touch screen laptops already I never find myself using the touch screen for anything other than a scroll once in a while because it just wobbles back and forth macbook pros are pretty sturdy but across the spectrum of laptops there's all kinds of wobbling hinges so I just don't use the touch screen but the newest highest end crazy stuff coming out like these RTX Spark Surface

50:37Ultra laptops they're all touch screens they're all incredible tandem OLED displays Apple is going to catch up with that tech and they're going to offer it but then why would I want to do it they might have to explain that to users in some extra way we haven't seen yet yeah which is exciting I'm excited for us to get a bajillion views for like multiple months pretty nice people want to know there's going to be a nanotexture touch screen I imagine there will be possible because the nanotexture on the inside of the duo feels so yeah that's better

51:07and there's some iPads with it now right I feel like I'm still stuck in the nanotexture of Pro display XDR which is like do not don't you dare touch that or it will never be the same I think the same way like we had those pro displays like nanotexture has come a long way those early ones horrible never touched them and then they made a nanotexture iPad and I was like oh that's okay and then we used it and we were like oh this is actually great that's and now it's on the phone which everyone uses all the time so I think they can do it on the laptop I still don't think this one's very good for touching obviously

51:38it's not made for touching but I'm pointing out my MacBook Pro which has nanotexture so it gets dirty we'll see if they do a different version of that one of the rumors is that they're skipping M6 Pro and Max chips so do we think this is going to be M5 skipping M6 Pro and Max so probably because we got M6 previously yeah I mean M5 Pro and M5 Max are A plus chips so I wouldn't be surprised if it had those so do you think this is going to be a MacBook Ultra that's like its own category

52:08or do we think all MacBook Pros are just going to be this OLED touch screen dynamic island two things one I think it lives separately from the rest of the lineup it's the touch screen one but two they never call it what we think they're going to call it so if we all think it's going to be the Ultra that's the only thing they won't call it yeah I don't know what they're going name it but it won't be what we think okay but you think it will have a distinct name that's outside the it's like its own skew it's strange because everyone's saying it's going to be called the MacBook Pro I think it might just be the

52:38MacBook Pro and Pro is going to also include touch now yeah I feel like usually it's an add-on it doesn't feel in my brain like it's

52:58Pro's will have the touch screen and just the Air will not have the touch screen because I think it's also OLED I don't think they're going to make an OLED non touch screen yeah and I don't think they're going to have what is this again mini LED micro LED mini LED and OLED I don't think they're going to have the same MacBook Pro lineup with mini LED and OLED two totally different screens just to get touch screen versus not touch screen yeah I think this yeah I think this lands at the top of the lineup above the current MacBook Pro with its own name with its own name I

53:47yeah I'm gonna just because you guys are doing that I'm gonna say these are just the new MacBook Pros they're just OLED with touch I think I agree with that yeah I think that would be nice that would really be this like I mean they needed a second half of 2026 Apple really needed a new differentiating factor for the MacBook Pros because the M chips yeah they're getting faster

54:17it's just like stick with your M1 again yeah exactly so so anyway that's next week by the time you listen to this it's just a couple days out that iPad mini apparently might have a $200 price increase yeah which it sucks because I mean it's going to be a better iPad mini but I want them to offer a lower priced one which I understand probably can't be a OLED display yeah but I just want a cheap iPad mini like that's a nice little computer option to have an iPad mini and an iPad mini pro give us the like I kind of wanted that a while ago

54:47yeah I wanted an iPad mini pro and this feels like it's going that although OLED but possibly still 60 hertz here's my conspiracy theory take they better not be 60 hertz they better

55:08and an iPad mini and if they make it more expensive it'll be around the same price and you go oh well why wouldn't I just buy two in one there's no way that hasn't happened in an Apple meeting they definitely have thought that that is really funny it's been in a meeting I do not think it's the reason why it's going to be more expensive yeah but it's also yeah like if I want right now if I want a 7 inch 120 hertz OLED display from Apple the iPhone duo is the only way to get it but if Apple can sell you an iPhone and a high iPad mini they would rather also

55:38sell you two things 100% so they would happily sell that yeah as well yeah well we'll find out pretty soon all right well next on the podcast after the break we're going to talk about the most controversial thing that's ever happened in history I don't think the mission S is that controversial oh I was talking about the big bang oh right well we'll get there in the meantime trivia all right guys earlier you were talking about Google apps that you think might not ever get official

56:10iPhone duo support yeah all of them I scoured the internet and I can tell you that on the iOS app store Google has listed 71 applications 71 71 I thought it was 40 something that's a lot what I need you guys to do oh my god is no no no no as many as possible write down just one but one Google app and whichever one of your apps was last updated the longest

56:40ago gets the point for this question can I throw same question but a potential for three points I'm interested you can pick you have to write down three of the apps but if any of your apps match one of the other persons you lose now three of these apps were updated today so don't pick those bug fixes and improvements that's exciting but not duo support unfortunately well we'll think about that answers will be at the end like usual we'll be

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Tesla Roadster announcement

1:00:11All right, welcome back. Let's talk about the other event that happened between the last podcast episode and now. The new car. I want to reiterate there, between the last, like, there were so many comments last week that were like, why don't you guys cover the Tesla Roadster? Why didn't you, I can't believe they didn't delay the recording to cover the Roadster. The podcast was uploaded before the event started. We released at 4 a.m. on Friday. By the time we finished recording, we would have been due. Yeah. That being said, I did put a video out reacting to it and explaining all my thoughts the next morning.

1:00:44But there are so many more things to talk about, and so we will. Tesla Roadster. Tesla had their Roadster event again, finally. The one that was delayed and then delayed again and then delayed again. It happened. It was October 15. And it was pretty insane. Where do I even start? So they announced the new look of the Roadster. Looks totally different. They've made a completely different car. And all this talk, all this hype about it being a SpaceX collab turned out to be true because that's the one thing that they demoed.

1:01:16They had people attend in real life to witness the car drive up a giant half pipe looking ramp and then upside down and then flip off of it and do like a barrel roll and land on its tires and drive away. It did a huge jump over a bunch of Tesla products. Kickflip. It was pretty crazy. Can you describe the car first if somehow you did not see the video in the last week? So for podcast audio only listeners, picture a mid-modern Lamborghini, not like the latest Lamborghinis, but like a Gallardo or not a Countach, but a little newer, like an old Huracan.

1:01:52It's like a wedge-shaped car with like triangles everywhere. The headlights are triangles. It's a very like low-poly type of like aggressive look. Like Cybertruck supercar. I think Cybertruck will get comps a lot because it's, again, very low-poly and it's only one color. It's just silver. That's what I wanted to add. It's only that color? I haven't seen any other color. Okay, I haven't either. Yeah. I was wondering if it's only silver and it's like the Cybertruck route of like it's pretty defined lines. Guys, this is product questions and details. We're not going to know stuff about colors for years.

1:02:23That's what this podcast is for. I'm just describing what I saw, you know. But yeah, then it's got these like pop-down headlights and then at the back there's this huge active rear wing and then the back of the car has these exhaust pipes and fans. It's an EV. There's no exhaust. Yeah, you're probably thinking, why is there exhaust pipes on this car? And that's because there are cold gas thrusters positioned all around the car. So I think the easiest way to understand this is there's four trims of the Tesla Roadster. This is how you can, you can go to their website.

1:02:54Like they didn't, this is the problem, they didn't say this at the event, but there are four trims of the Tesla Roadster. The base Tesla Roadster is just the EV, 100 kilowatt hour battery pack, whatever, rear wheel drive, or one megawatt of power, which is 1300 horsepower. Yeah. Just a fast EV. And that was, we only found that out because of the interviews some of the engineers did later. It is not listed on the website. We don't actually have any specs on what it were. We're just assuming it is car that looks like Roadster. Big shout out to Hagerty, Motor Trend, and Top Gear, who all asked lots of interesting questions of Lars and Franz after the, or before the event and like published their videos.

1:03:27This is where most of my information comes from. So there's the base Roadster. Then there's the performance version of the Roadster, which has a fan system underneath. The fan system, if you haven't seen the McMurtry Spearling, is basically just a huge set of fans at the back of the car that are connected to the bottom of the car. That's sucked the air out from under the car, creates a low pressure zone, pulls the car into the ground, and gives it multiples of grip. It's great. Makes it corner really fast and gives it grip where other cars don't have because active air needs a lot of speed.

1:03:59Then there's the thruster version of the car, which has that, and adds four rocket thrusters to the back of the car. They're connected to a 200 liter carbon overwrapped pressure vessel that's sitting right behind the driver's head and holds about 100 kilograms of compressed nitrogen at about 10,000 PSI that can burst for about four to five seconds, send you zero to 60 in under one second, and then it's empty. Then there's the highest end rocket version of the car, which adds another double-sized 400 liter carbon overwrapped pressure vessel in the passenger seat next to the driver, making it a one-seater, and also adds six other thrusters around the car facing down and facing sideways for yaw control.

1:04:49And that's the one that performs, you know, the crazy trick that could theoretically jump or turn in midair. That one on their website says it's by invite only and is not approved for public use, obviously. Yeah, the thrust version is limited, and then the performance one you can just reserve. They are, performance is 5,000 down now, 45,000 due in 10 days. Thrust is 5,000 down now, 245,000 due in 10 days. And then we don't know base or rocket pricing. Yeah, so all of that is pretty theoretical because, again, this car was announced, like, many, many years ago, and now it's pushed to 2028 and still doesn't exist.

1:05:27We saw that one demo car. They did a couple demos in front of people, in front of a live audience, but, like, still. I sort of ended my impressions video of the event saying, look, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice. Won't get fooled again. No, won't get fooled again. I obviously have been waiting for Roadster for a long time, and, you know, they do this big show, this crazy demo. It is no question an incredible demo and, like, a really fun thing for people to watch.

1:06:00And then the product itself, like, details just don't make it out. Like, that's not even important to this thing at all. Well, hold on. You did leave out three really important details about the car from this. The first is that, and these are exact quotes. The car will be sentient. That's an exact quote about the Roadster. That was a tweet later. That was a tweet later. Yeah. It will be able to perform all of those maneuvers autonomously, so there will, in theory, be no control system for the Roadster. And at Tesla HQ, they are building a life-sized Hot Wheels track for Roadster owners to perform any of these stunts themselves.

1:06:39In fact, the exact quote is, crazier even than Hot Wheels. Yeah. One other thing is, Elon said, on stage, live during the event, they just sort of, like, asked how fast should the top speed be because they're sort of re-announcing all of the specs. And, you know, if you ask Franz or Lars in the engineering sessions, they were like, it'll go 230, it'll go 235, it'll go 250 or whatever. And then Elon goes, I think it should be able to go half the speed of sound. Which, for those who are doing the quick math, yeah, that's 380 miles an hour, which no production car has ever done, and it'll be probably 50 years before another car, like, even gets close to that.

1:07:18Tires can't do that right now. That's just not going to happen. But he did say that on stage. So, yeah, where do we even start? I guess the main thing everyone's wondering is why should it do that? Let's start at just the three demos, and, like, in a vacuum, what the three demos were, they were impressive and also raised some questions. Okay, so the fan car demo, that first one, driving up this super smooth ramp and then coming back down because it's a fan car. Really cool demo.

1:07:50Not the first time we've seen it. The McMurtry-Spirling that I mentioned earlier is a fan car that's been in development very publicly and on social media for a long time, which is also an EV. It's also a super lightweight, incredibly crazy sports car, and they have literally driven it upside down before because the amount of suction that it creates is more than the mass of the car, so it can drive upside down. It's a cool demo, obviously, but, like, the practical application of that, if you watch the McMurtry-Spirling videos, is that car has so much grip all of the time in a way that Active Aero can't that it literally can snap, like, three or four Gs of lateral acceleration, which you'd never see from just tires.

1:08:32So it's really, really great. It breaks track records every time. It's kind of like a cheat code. It's insane. I think that's an important note, too, is track records. Yes. This thing is, it's Active Aero underneath the car. It's suction. Like, these things can only be done on a track, and even still, the track has to be perfectly maintained. Smooth track. I mean, presumably, it has mesh in a filter system to not suck up too much stuff, but, like, this cannot be used on an average road.

1:09:03Yeah, they're really loud. I don't know if you've seen the videos of the Spirling, but they're super, the fans, they turn them on, there's, like, a dial of, like, 10,000, 20,000 RPM, and, like, you hear the fans spin up, and it's crazy loud, and then it just accelerates in this, like, 1.4 seconds, 0 to 60, this burst, and it's just insane to watch. But, yeah, it has this, like, skirt system that drops down underneath the car to create, like, a suction area for that low-pressure zone. Yeah, like a pressure vacuum. So, it's really, really cool.

1:09:33It's a science experiment we've seen in development, and it almost doesn't surprise me that, like, Tesla comes along with this, like, big pockets, and it's just like, oh, yeah, we'll do that, too. And then they just throw a bunch of engineering talent at it, and they're like, all right, now ours can do the same thing. So, that is the first demo that we saw. It's cool driving up the wall, really tall, like Ella said, a half pipe turned on its side, so it's, like, literally perfectly vertical and it's just sitting there. Yeah. And that was the first demo. And then the next demo, it does that again, except drives off the upside-down part of the top.

1:10:03Yeah, as one does. It flips over and falls down, and you see all the cold gas thrusters shooting all over the place and falling with style down to the ground. If you just take what we watched at face value, then we just watched a 3,000, 4,000-pound object fly through the air and then land. I almost don't even want that to exist on the street. If you've seen the way, obviously, it will never exist on the street. It's not street legal.

1:10:34But, like, the demos that they're doing don't have much practical application. They're just sick demo, basically. So, you can't jump over traffic. You can't jump off a bridge to avoid the traffic on the bridge onto another highway overpass or whatever. Like, you can't actually do that anywhere. That's why they will have to build some sort of a private track for Rocket Roadster owners to demo this thing, because that's the only place you can actually use it. But they did the demo hundreds of yards away from the live audience and gave them hearing protection because the thrusters are so loud, it would be really, really hard to, like, listen to that in person.

1:11:09Really, really loud stuff. So, obviously not street legal, but I think when people watch that, they think, well, some fraction of people go, oh, that's never going to happen. That's never going to hit the road. But some other fraction of people think, oh, that's cool. They can jump over traffic. I can't really get a gauge on who really thinks that or who just wants to make the coolest AI video on Twitter about jumping over police cars. They're all memes. Yeah, they all feel like memes. The memes were incredible. The memes have been incredible. I wouldn't be surprised if there's people who think that singular thrust is going to be, like, street legal, which I don't—I'm wondering how they're going to do all of this.

1:11:44Are they going to have to geofence, like, these features? Because that's not something you can just be, like, oh, it's illegal to use on the street because some idiot's going to do it. Like, remember when David Dobrik launched the Model X off that, like, San Francisco— Oh, yeah. That would be in the Pacific Ocean if it had, like—if they did the thrusters. Yeah. So, like, we can't let people out there even attempt to try and use this thing illegally. Dude, are you a communist? Apparently. I've seen—so, there's different—in the sports car world, there's different levels of how restricted not street legal things have been.

1:12:22So, sometimes there's a mode in the car called track mode, and there's a little fine print that says do not use on public streets, but you can just turn it on and do it anyway. Yeah. It's probably not illegal, but it's, like, not recommended, and the car will, like, not have the liability because it told you not to do it. Then there's things like—you might remember the W1 video. Cars are not allowed to have, like, things overhanging the back bumper. So, if you do, you need some sort of flag on it. Like, if you're towing, like, some 2x4s or whatever, you need a flag. So, it had this big wing, this LT wing that extended over the back bumper.

1:12:55That's not street legal. You can't have it extend over the back bumper. So, they gate that to race mode, and then they gate race mode to GPS locations of tracks and drag strips only. So, you literally can't enable that feature on a public street, which is another version of this. There's all sorts of little stuff like that. Like, this concept car had no windshield wipers, had no side-view mirrors. Lars, or maybe it was Franz, suggested that you could, like, attach the windshield wiper whenever you want and then detach it whenever you want. And same thing with side-view mirrors.

1:13:26I talk about this all the time. I think that's one of those cases where you have to sell the car with the thing that's required, and then you can make it user-removable later. That's another version. But, yeah, for a 10,000 PSI cold gas container behind the driver to expel a bunch of gas, I feel like they should really restrict that to not be possible anywhere other than a drag strip. Yeah. That seems like the only place you'd use that. And then, in terms of the, like, the kickflip demo, where, first of all, that was the most real-life Rocket League thing I've ever seen.

1:14:00Because it clearly was real. There's people there watching it. But, like, when we think of flying, we think of this, like, gradual takeoff. And this, like, lifted, and then as it's flipping, looks really strange because you can tell so much of the thrusters are, like, calibrating itself mid-flight to be, like, okay, overcorrect, undercorrect, figure it out, land nicely. Which looks like the boost rockets in Rocket League, where you're, like, trying to direct yourself to the ball correctly. Yeah. Less, like, flying, more like, I don't even know how to describe, like, mid-air maneuvering.

1:14:32Yeah. And that, I want to bring up the quote Ella said before. Elon responded to somebody saying that, like, you will be able to do this autonomously. My first thought in that was, is this only going to be able to be done autonomously? The more I hear, the more I think so. I think this is going to be a party trick that you launch with your phone out of the way because a person inside of that thing, even if it lands perfectly, even just the, like, jerking your head around, like, trying to keep in there, even if it lands perfectly fine and chill.

1:15:05It's like an RC car, basically. Yeah, that's, like, the most intense roller coaster you could ever imagine. So, thinking about, like, being inside the car, like, when you crash test a car, they have to, like, make sure that the roof of the car can support the weight of the car. And that's in case of a roll-over incident. So, if the car rolls over and ends up on its roof, it can support the weight and not across the driver. Yeah. If this car can jump 20 feet in the air, that means it can fall 20 feet onto its roof. Which is glass, right? That's, uh, I don't even know. The above shot makes it look like glass.

1:15:35The scissor doors or whatever, I don't even know. But, like, you'd never take the liability of having a driver in the car while that happens. And then you think about, like, okay, doing the flips and stuff. And the way it's described by the engineers and all the things that we watched, and the demos we watched were all autonomous as well with the flips and stuff. The more you watch that, the more it seems like this is going to be a thing. Remember the Benny robot that we had? Which does a little kickflip or whatever? It's just a button that you press that can do the maneuver in the right environment.

1:16:06And you don't really have any control over it while it's doing that maneuver. Right. And then it's over. Yeah. And you did the party trick. I think that's what it's going to end up being. Totally. The more I see it. I mean, if it ever gets made. Yeah. That's the other thing. But, yeah. I mean, and it's still crazy to see that. I don't think any, I know it's going to sound like we're, like, absolutely poo-pooing this thing. And that's just because it's burned us before. But, like, it was really, I mean, it's probably the craziest demo we've ever, anyone's ever seen. For sure. I mean, I actually was watching hockey and I just looked and saw all the Slack notifications going crazy.

1:16:41And you guys were losing it. I was like, I have to see this. We're too busy beating the Rangers. But it was one of the craziest demos ever. It's just, it's fine for it to be a crazy demo and to realize that this is a car that was supposed to release almost 10 years ago that literally just doesn't exist anymore. And now, this is also two years, 2028, when this quote comes out. Yeah. Lots of unanswered questions because the event was basically, like, no information at all. But one of the bigger questions is, okay, so for people who bought the other Roadster, they literally, I think Franz called it the middle Roadster, which is funny because it never came out.

1:17:19But for people who, like, reserved that car, this is a completely different car. Are they going to keep their reservation? Are you entitled to keep your reservation? What trim does that get you? What are the prices of the different trims? Yep. Right? And that even had, like, the Founders Edition was, like, a special paint color that you paid more for. So what happened was, with the Roadster, we've only ever seen, with the middle Roadster, we've only ever seen red and white.

1:17:49There were two reds, though, weren't there? Wasn't there red and Founders red? I don't even know if it was a different red. But the Founders series was red, and it was the first thousand off the production line. That's all it really got you. It was the highest-end thing. And then we started to see, like, random tweets about, like, SpaceX packages. And we were like, okay, is the Founders series also going to include that stuff? And it was like, just wait, this car is going to fly. And we're like, all right, whatever. So now that we have all these new trims, like Base Roadster, Performance Roadster, Thrust Roadster, Rocket Roadster, what happens to the people who put money down on the old car?

1:18:24What happens to people who put $250,000 down a decade ago on what they thought was going to be a 600-mile four-seater? And a Roadster, by the way, which means it has a removable roof. This one, not so much. I imagine they get the $250,000 thrust version, maybe? I don't know. That's possible. Are those people going to get emails of, like, choose your thing? How is, you know, the line going to work of who gets these things first? Like, are people back then? Which I would think of now, if you're ordering the Roadster now after that demo, you're potentially thousands of people late already from eight years ago who put their reservation in.

1:19:00Who's getting what? All unanswered. Yeah, what's coming out first? Like, having a limited version of the Rocket one has the best opportunity of, like, sell 10 of these in two years. And then it launched, but now the other ones, who knows when those are going to come out? Tesla loves to have their base cheaper versions, put the really expensive versions out for a while, and then you just never see a $35,000 Cybertruck. And I think Mark has sent an image to the Slack the other day, I assume from an agreement when you're signing up for the new Roadster that said, You understand that the Roadster is still under development at the time you entered into this agreement, so we cannot guarantee when your vehicle will actually be delivered, or if it will be delivered.

1:19:40And to me, that told me all I need to know. Yeah. So. Yeah. This, to me, is, so we see halo cars all the time, we see concept cars all the time. This was just a demo whose target audience is not people who ever buy this car. That's the thing. Millions of people are going to see this. Almost none of them were ever going to buy this car. The target audience is people thinking about cars, thinking about Tesla, and it's to try to reposition Tesla in people's heads as a super high-tech company. Yeah. That has access to some technology that no other car company has, obviously with the SpaceX collab.

1:20:15And then maybe they'll sell some of these and it kind of doesn't really matter. Right. It makes no difference to Tesla if they actually sell them or not. It's a halo car. The mission has been accomplished already with the marketing stunt. That's all we can rely on. Especially since they don't sell the Model S anymore. Model S and X were canceled because they didn't sell enough. Yeah. This, by definition, will not sell as much as those cars. Yeah. So you can imagine where it is in the priority list. For sure. It's a halo. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. It happened. And then Porsche released another thing, too.

1:20:45Is it even a halo? Really? When I say halo, I mean, like, it's what they want people to think about when they think about the brand. Yeah. Okay. It was the best marketing. It's not like other halo cars, though, where, like, you can buy them, you know? Well, there's a lot of halo. That's the thing that's tricky is a lot of these crazy brands have halo cars that are essentially unbuyable. Yeah. You will never see one in the street. But a McLaren W1, that's their new halo car, we're never going to see one again.

1:21:17Yeah. Now, they'll make a thousand of them or whatever it is. And they will eventually, we assume, technically make all of these. A lot of them will sit in garages. They'll hit the track sometimes. They'll sit in collections. And that's their halo car. But the cars they actually sell and move on volume are more important to the bottom line. But they don't move those cars unless they have the absolute apex. This is what we're capable of. And here's a taste of that technology in the car you're actually buying. Right. You'll never see the Ferrari F80. Like Lamborghini, I'm sure, has some crazy thing that we can't buy.

1:21:50Porsches just announced a new thing, which they will actually mass produce. I was going to say, to play devil's advocate, you just named two halo cars that we will never see because they cost millions of dollars and they're made by manufacturers where all their cars are really expensive and super low quantity. And Tesla is not McLaren. They're not Ferrari. But they want the image of those companies. But they're a mass production car company, right? So if you're going to compare it to other halo cars from mass production car companies like the Toyota Century, which is a super rare car, I've seen one on the road.

1:22:24The upcoming Lexus LFR, we will see that on the road. We've seen Nissan GTRs. Like these halo cars are cars that like fundamentally exist and also push a lot of technological boundaries. Yeah. It's kind of like trying to shift their brand image. So like Nissan, Toyota, Honda, a lot of these companies, they're not necessarily selling performance cars to the masses based on their reputation as like winning Le Mans or like having the highest end best Formula One team.

1:22:54And if you want to move from being Tesla and selling, you know, an average like mass produced EV to being able to eventually sell more or have this higher status image, you got to kind of convince people you have that technology, convince people you have some special sauce. And I guess connecting the dots to SpaceX is them trying to convince people they have that. Which how else would they do it? I guess. And that's the other thing. The end of the Hagerty video, I think, made a really good point. So shout out to Henry Ketchpole for making the point, which is so they redesigned the Roadster, Roadster 2.

1:23:30It's red. I think all of us agree that's like a prettier car, like a better looking car, just like a normal looking EV. I thought it looked good. I get why they made it. Like it looked really good then, but I think it's not as flashy. This is flashy. Yeah. So they announced that car. They show all the specs. They show all this range and all this performance of the zero to 60 in under two seconds. Right. And then they go, but it's coming out in four years. So wait a while. And then we wait a while and a couple of years go by and we start to see that happen in other places.

1:24:02Like Lucid makes a 1.9 seconds or a 60 car. Rimmac makes a 1.9 seconds or a 60 car. McMurtry-Spieerling shows up, has the fan car suction. And suddenly that Roadster isn't really like a halo car anymore. Like it's not really doing anything that we haven't seen before. And it doesn't accomplish the mission of being that halo anymore. That's fair, yeah. And so at some point between that 2017 event and now, Tesla decided, never mind, like we're not doing that. We need something else about Roadster to actually be a halo again.

1:24:36And that's probably when we started seeing like tweets about SpaceX and cold rocket thrusters and, oh, we have a better idea. And they just never communicated about like not ever shipping the thing that we all saw. But they now have a thing that is interesting again. I mean, you see the clicks. You see the people talking about it. Like it is now moved to accomplishing some sort of halo status, even though it, again, probably doesn't ever have to ship. And it probably helps that it looks kind of like the Cybertruck because nobody else is going to make a car that looks like the Cybertruck.

1:25:07So if you stick to that similar design, it's not going to like – it's not going to not hold up, right? Like to your point, the Roadster they announced in 2017 looks amazing, but it looks like a car. And there are so many cars that look like it now. At the time, it looked very advanced, but now it looks kind of just like a car. And so nobody else is going to like make something that looks like it. And I think realistically, like normies are seeing this. Normies are not following Tesla closely. They're just like, oh, he made this car. Great.

1:25:38And like they won't follow that it doesn't come out. They won't follow – like they change it in 10 years. Like they just see what it is now. And that's the impression that most people are getting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so – dude. How dare you? How dare you not think – this will be out by next week. I don't know what – any of you are all haters. I was trying to think of what – You don't love technology. I'm going to – I'm sure your Twitter has been an absolute mess for the last couple days. But that's because Twitter is full of – There are so many people on Twitter who have like a vested interest in Tesla's success who hear any criticism of kind of anything Tesla-related as hate basically.

1:26:20So if I come along and say, wow, really cool demo. I don't think it's going to ship though, which is I think a reasonable thing to say. They hear that as like, what do you mean you don't believe in the vision and Elon has landed rockets and caught them before. Like, okay, we know all that. But like I still don't think it's going to ship. But there's like a really hilarious tweet about like eight years ago Marquez was so amped about the Tesla Roadster and blah, blah, blah. What changed? And there's all these people who have been here since – who have been like following Tesla for a decade who are like, you mean eight years ago when he spent $50,000?

1:26:53Like eight years ago when we all got promised this thing and it's still not out. Like they've been burned before. I feel like a lot of the new Tesla crowd is the post-Elon buy Twitter crowd that's like a little more into it and didn't see the beginning of where it all fell apart. Also watch the video. Yeah, exactly. There was no one watching. It's not a negative video. It's just a balanced, thoughtful video. It's skepticism. It's okay to have skepticism. People are just like – it's just social media. People just pull shit out of context. I mean the difference – They try to make everything seem negative.

1:27:24I think I have a lot of respect for the engineers at Tesla who get tasked with these impossible things and who also happen to make like some solid cars. And so the thing that changed from eight years ago is Tesla was really different eight years ago. They were like ramping up and making this new thing called Model 3 and then Model Y and these really like, holy crap, we can make like a kind of a cheap like EV that's actually pretty solid and like really efficient too. And like, oh, a front trunk. That's a good idea. Like they had lots of good ideas and were executing on it. And then mispromise here, mispromise there, overpromise here.

1:27:56Now it's eight years of that later. It's like fool me once. Like that's – it's a different landscape. So that's why it feels different. I cannot stress enough. I have something to say. Okay. I just – I have two things to say. I have seven things to say. First of all, I just want to say I cannot stress enough how important it is if you're even remotely curious about this car that you watch the entire 30-minute event. In full, not clips. Because if you watch it in clips, it might come across like, wow, that's an exciting demo.

1:28:28Wow, that's an exciting demo. Like look at that. If you watch the full 30 minutes, it becomes so abundantly clear that there was zero preparation done in the actual presentation of this. Almost every single thing they say is like so obviously either winged or there's a teleprompt or they're like, oh, we're doing this now. Oh, we're doing this now. So just like zero effort, which is insane to me. And then you'll see the end of the event, which is one of the most shocking things I've ever seen a corporation do on stage, even for Tesla, where it ends with the crowd yelling questions at Elon.

1:29:02What's the range? What's the price? And Elon just goes, let's do a kickflip again and then dips. There's not even a sign-off. It's like watch this kickflip. I'm not answering any questions because this is not a real product. But the last time people yelled questions at him, he answered a bunch of things, which was really bad. Let's not get nuanced. Well, because people talking about hardware versions with new autonomous things and he essentially was saying stuff that they weren't ready for. And it was either telling people like their hardware might not actually work with full self-driving.

1:29:35It was bad for them. Tesla has a, they've had this for a while where they kind of have like a weird style of events. Like we think, we watch a lot of polished tech events where they're extremely rehearsed and this is their 50th time doing it or it's prerecorded or whatever. But you watch car company events and they're a little different. They're a little more, here's some music and we're going to roll out the car behind a smoke screen and the cool headlights and through the fog and stuff. And like Tesla style is like, we're talking to the nerds for a little bit.

1:30:05It kind of actually depends on who the target demographic is. Because if it's just like a stock pump type of event where it's like, look at this cool thing, our halo product. They are all stock pump. Well, when they're delivering a product. But think about the last like five Tesla events we've had to watch, dude. Like they're all like, oh, we'll watch it. Oh, it was nothing again. Like Model 3 and Model Y, I remember those events where they felt the same in terms of like, what are we talking about next? Oh, here's a new slide. Like they had a lot of those moments, which was, I think people found that almost like refreshingly, just here's the new thing. We're just being really straight up about it.

1:30:36But then they've not delivered. I mean, Cybertruck. So they rolled it out and then said it's coming out in a few years. So they didn't really have to give a bunch of details. And then you start seeing that like fade where it's like people have questions again. How often do you see a tech event where the audience yells out questions and then the CEO answers them? Like that just doesn't happen. So it is kind of a weird vibe. I mean, I don't even think it's a style. I think to answer you and what you said of like you said Tesla didn't put any effort into this. I think Tesla puts a lot of effort into it.

1:31:06And there's a common denominator in both of your theories on it that one person screws that up. And that's Elon's winging it up there. No, no. Well, I think the perfect example is in the beginning. Franz and Lars got on that stage knowing full well they were pushing snake oil. And we're saying, check out our cool thing. I'm not saying that. They're just as culpable in this. But right in the beginning of it, there's a part where Elon just starts talking and the timer starts counting down for the demo he's about to do. And they have to cut him off and be like, hold on, hold on. We're doing a demo because he's just completely winging.

1:31:37There's probably a teleprompter there for him. And he's just not going off the teleprompter. It's because Tesla wants to be the Joe Rogan of car companies. They think they can just be cool, relatable bros. And we don't have to know anything. We'll just get by on our cool, casual, chill bro vibe. That's not how it works when you're trying to build products that millions of people will have to use safely and abide by America's strict security laws. I think there's a big difference between their, like, Model 3 event and their Halo product event.

1:32:10Where if you watch the Model 3 event, which I think I remember pretty clearly, like, there were cheers for the spec announcements. They'd be like, it's a, you know, 280-mile range. And people went, whoa, you can do that for this price? And they had, like, this very logical, sensible, like, here's what you need to know about this car. Because they knew it was their mass-produced car and that's the audience for it. But for a product that is inherently lower audience, like, people aren't really watching this, thinking about buying it, then they don't give those details. And then they go way more over the top of, like, the fanfare and the look at this cool trick because that's for that target audience.

1:32:46Right, right. But there's also a world, again, just playing devil's advocate here, where if you're doing a Halo car to be like, look at all this cool tech we have access to, you might want to, you know, express in kilonewtons or, like, pounds how much force your fan system can deliver instead of saying, quote, it can suck the chrome off a tailpipe. I think that was my biggest issue with the event was when I watched Lars and Franz in those three videos after the fact, they did talk like that. And they gave us, like, the 10,000 PSI carbon overroute pressure vessels and they told us the 1 megawatt of power, the 1,300 horsepower from a rear-wheel drive car.

1:33:24And even to the journalist credits, like, they were asking questions, like, so why is it rear-wheel drive? And they would answer, we think it's a better driver's experience, we're trying to save weight. And they would give, like, we're hitting, hopefully, 1,700 kilograms with this car. All this technical information, none of which made it to the presentation because the target audience for the presentation is millions and millions of people who don't know what that means and won't make a difference to them. I mean, or even because Elon's up there and might be like, I think we could go a little faster than that. And now everything they've just said is null and they have to try and fix it.

1:33:56Yeah, like, what do you think positions them better as a crazy tech rocket car company? 1,300 horsepower rear-wheel drive, smaller, higher-density power unit connected to a 115-kilowatt-hour battery with double cooling? Or, look at this f***ing kickflip. It'll also go half the speed of sound. Like, the snake oil bulls*** that they say on stage, people love that s***. They eat it up. So, that's what they do. Um, my last thought on this was, this event feels like it all but confirms that the CyberCab bet is totally safe because no one, we're like, we're not even like-

1:34:34I mean, I knew already, but yeah, that is safe. That is very safe. CyberCab- There's so much focus on this. CyberCab can just do whatever it wants. Um, it will continue to be geofenced. It will probably roll out some more things in Austin and maybe two other cities. Yeah, remote taxi service is like a kind of a slowly expanding thing, but you are not going to buy a CyberCab this year, sorry. I'll see you on the, the life-size Hot Wheels track, Marquez. That'll be the one place that someday cars will fly, allegedly. Hey, look, they can fly, but for only one second. Yeah.

1:35:04So, well, I greatly anticipate a bunch of clips from this podcast getting clipped out of context. Yes, none of us should go on Twitter for the next two weeks. Yeah, it's a good time. I mean, evergreen, but- We're to all my haters. We're in jail right now for pretty much exactly this, and we're just like, whatever, let's- When you, look, Ellis. That was the most annoyed trivia. In America, when you steal from investors, you go to prison. When you steal from regular people, that's just a normal day at the office.

1:35:36Clip that.

1:35:38We're going to hard pivot, everybody. Just like the roaster when it does a barrel roll. Thank you. So cool. Okay.

1:35:50Thanks, Mom. So, taking it back to the duos, there have been many iconic duos throughout history. Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, Keyboard and Mouse, Peanut Butter and Jelly. Definitely. Simon and Garfunkel, if that's your thing. But, what iconic tech duo had a feature called Knock Knock? Simmer on that. Well, I've used that. Where is that from? I have also- Don't say it out loud. Oh, what phrasing. Good phrasing. That's a good question.

1:36:22I know this one. I can say it again if you need to hear it again. Can you say it again? What iconic tech duo had a feature called Knock Knock? Ha!

1:36:35Great. Great, great question. Okay. It was phrased originally too easy, so we made it a little more ambiguous.

Porsche Mission S concept car

1:36:41Perfect. I love that they're scratching their heads. This is great. All right. Well, I'm going to get a trivia point later. We'll be right back.

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1:38:10So you can focus on building demand, winning deals, and keeping customers coming back. You know, the thing's most worth doing. Learn more at HubSpot.com. All right, welcome back. I was kind of joking, but not really joking. I actually do want to briefly talk about Porsche's car event that happened the same day as Tesla's car event. It was the same day? It was the same day. Oh, wow. Which is really funny. So Porsche also announced a concept car. See if you can spot the similarities and the differences between Porsche's style announcing a concept car and what we just talked about for the last, I don't know, hour of Tesla announcing a concept car.

1:38:46Okay. Biggest difference. I heard of the Roadster. Well, okay. So Porsche, just for a little bit of background, they do mass-produce cars, but it's funny. They are very much a sports car company that also happens to sell crossovers like the Macan and the Cayenne, like a family SUV type of thing, in much more volume, which specifically allows them the money to develop better sports cars. Does that make sense? As like a business model? So people know Porsche as a sports car company, even though most of their sales are actually not sports cars.

1:39:18Okay. So for the longest time, a very, very long time, they have only made really two sports cars, which is the Cayman and the 911. You've probably heard about these cars. The Cayman is their sort of entry-level-ish, mid-range sports car. It's very small. We had one like a GT4 a while ago. I don't know if you saw it. And then the 911, which is like their halo highest-end sports car. They also have made extremely high-end halo products with crazy technologies that you can kind of never really buy, but a few people could buy, like the 918 Spyder or the Carrera GT.

1:39:52Kind of legendary cars. A lot of words, for sure. So, I mean, that, again, 918 Spyder, 1,000 horsepower, hybrid, convertible, like, super limited edition, $2 million car. Okay. You've probably never seen one. Correct. But, oh, my God, what a car. Okay, so that means that the highest-end mass-produced car that they've made for all this time has been the 911, which is a rear-engine car. And they have made a bunch of variants of the 911. They have made this lightweight rear-wheel drive version. I'm oversimplifying, car people. Please have mercy. But they have an all-wheel drive hybrid version.

1:40:22They have a bunch in between. And they sort of range between, like, $100,000 new and, like, $300,000 new because they're high-end sports cars. Yeah. So what Porsche just introduced is a car to compete with what a lot of the other high-end brands like Ferrari and Lamborghini have been putting out lately, which is this, like, $600,000 range of car. Oh. Which has, you know, hybrid systems and way more power and all this stuff. And, like, they haven't really been competing because the 911 is the highest-end car that they've mass-produced.

1:40:53So it's the Mission S. It is a new design, which has a lot of, like, hidden cues of, like, the greatest hits of their old designs. It is mid-engine. And they announced no specs at all. They simply showed the design of the concept car, the outside. They opened the doors. They showed you the inside. There's very few screens. They have a MagSafe mount for a phone. But these really cool seats, this harness seat. And it's mid-engine. It's got quad tailpipes. These really cool headlights and DRLs.

1:41:24The back kind of has Luce vibes of this, like, car inside of a car. Because it's curvy? Oh, car inside of a car. It's, like, a curved on the outside and then another curve on the inside. A hundred percent. Believe it or not, that's referential to another older Porsche that kind of had the same look and had some racing success. So that's, like, a nice touch for historians. But I agree. But it looks like the wing comes up. And then it doesn't look like that. It does come up. But when the wing's down. Yeah. Yeah. So they announced this car. They show it off. They do not announce a price. They do not announce the engine. They do not announce the performance.

1:41:54They just said, here's the car. It's going to come out later. Trust me. And that's it. Can I ask a question? Yeah. Are Porsche fans, like, really mad at that? Porsche fans are mostly loving this car. Really? Yes. I was going to say the difference here is I would assume most Porsche fans and, like, car enthusiasts would be really pissed off that there's not a lot of specs in that. And the difference is that I assumed they would be mad, whereas the Tesla fans were, like, it's a kickflip. That's cool. Yeah. So Porsche has a reputation for making really good cars.

1:42:27So there is an expectation that Porsche will eventually deliver what they're showing us and that it will be really good. So I think people give them the benefit of the doubt in a lot of ways. There's a lot of speculation of, like, oh, there's a fan on the top and this is probably cooling, like, a flat 8 instead of a flat 6. Oh, it's probably going to sound really good. It looks like it has a high – like, we're looking into a lot of things thinking about what they might do. What's a flat 8 and a flat 6? That's the number of cylinders in – and it affects the sound characteristics of the car a lot as well. So that's what the big hole in the top of the car is for?

1:42:59The big hole in the top of the car – you see the fan? That's where the guy sits. There's a fan on the top. You're talking about the back of the car if you go to the back. The front thing. No, that's a – Oh, the front of the car you're looking at is a front trunk. I actually don't know what it is. Actually, there is no front trunk. No, no, no. They're, like, hood scoop on the roof. The scoop on the roof.

Yeah, there's a hood scoop on the roof, which just sucks in cold air from the front to cool the engine in the middle of the car. But he's talking about – See back here, there's, like, a fan. No, I was talking about the hood scoop. Yeah, the hood scoop is cool. We love a hood scoop. The back of the car has a fan. We love that. Got it. But anyway, a lot of the praise from Tesla – from Porsche fans is about the design decisions.

1:43:32Like, they have this metal key that actually sticks into the car and turns, which they got rid of in the 911. Oh. They have a lot of things like – Wait, so it's a key? Well, it's not, like, shaped like a key. It's a key fob. You just described a regular key. I realize what I'm doing. I realize what I'm doing. It's like a metal thing that goes and you turn it. I am literally describing a key, but it's, like, the key fob has a place in the car where it sits. Yeah. And obviously connects to the car and lets you – it's, like, not quite push to start, but it sits in the car and the car knows that you're in it. You can turn it on.

1:44:02But you also turn it on by turning it. So it's effectively a key. Can you also turn it on without that? It's a key in reverse, almost. It's, like – What? Yeah. It's, like – A negative key? No, look at it. It kind of is. It's the chamber. It has a slot on it. It's got the key part indented. It's the key chamber. It's indented. Yeah. It's a portable key chamber. But, like, they also did the thing – so in the 911, they famously, in this recent generation, got rid of the beautiful, like, analog tachometer with the real needles, and it's just screens now. Yeah. In this Mission S, we're back to real physical gauges that, like, move out and separate and, like, have these beautiful lights behind them.

1:44:37Oh. Super, super intricate stuff. And the biggest complaint I've seen, really, is that, oh, gosh, Porsche is making all the stuff we love but in the $600,000 car instead of the 911. It's not accessible. But, generally, a lot of good vibes around this car, which has no specs, no price, no performance claims, no release date. It's just here's the concept. You love it, don't you? And so people are not mad about that. Not really. It sounds like people are just happy they're getting the things back that they used to like before that Porsche took away from them.

1:45:08Yeah. Well, here's my other question is if it's a concept car, don't most car manufacturers show off concept cars and then never make them? Yeah, so I think there's different levels of that. I think there's, like, the CES concept car, which is, like, here's a thing that is really legitimately just a concept that we could make but we don't plan on it. And then there's here's the name of the model. Right. Here's all the stuff that we've developed. It's going to come out. Yeah. Like, so the Taycan, before it came out, was the Porsche Mission E concept.

1:45:39Oh. And it had, like, these cool wheels and it was their electric concept car and then a year or two later they ship it and it's slightly modified but it's the Taycan. Got it. That's close. So that's, like, a different level of concept. Okay. Like, they're going to make the thing. Okay. So. Not like the Hyundai, um, the. Oh, the. The N70. Yeah. The N74. That one, I got the vibe was going to get made but then there were too many questions. It will and then they say it won't. Yeah. That felt like it went back and forth like this isn't getting made and then everyone talked about it and was like, oh, no, maybe we'll make it. They, like, switched their drivetrain claims.

1:46:09It was going to be, like, a hybrid and then they had something about, uh, it was going to be. Like a generator. I don't remember what they were going to do. It was. Yeah. I don't remember. Yeah. But it wasn't. It was, like, gas or something. It was, like. Or hydrogen. Nitrogen. Yeah. It was hydrogen. Hydrogen. Something weird. Anyway, that doesn't, you can't buy that yet, obviously. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, similar to Tesla, no real information on the car other than a design on stage and some cool tricks like gauges that move. It's not a kickflip, but it's a cool. Tesla's, like, ours flies. Different target demographic. We reinvented the key.

1:46:40Very different target demographic. Like, this one has, like, a very, like, an analog-looking shifter. It's not a manual car, but it does have this sweet-looking, like, gear shifter. Yeah. Totally different target demo. Yeah. But it's not, to be clear, a halo car. It's a mass-produced car above the 911, and they will still have crazy halo cars. Yeah. I guess my question is, are they taking your money for this now? Not yet. Yeah. Okay. Not yet. It's not a warthog. It's a, uh. Yeah. That's a big difference. Tesla's taking your money right now. Porsche's not announcing a price or taking your money right now.

1:47:11Tesla's been taking your money for eight years. Yeah. So, I assume when you're closer to real mass production, Porsche will announce a price. They will start whatever allocation process they have, and people will start to try to buy this thing. Yeah. I won't. I like it a lot. I won't. I want to leave. I just want to sit in it. It looks so good. Mm. Yeah. Does it? Yeah. I feel like the 911. I mean, in white. I kind of like it in some parts, I like it more. They do this thing with their concept cars where they make them in white, and they give them, like, white wheels, and it's a little much for me. I would never get it in that color. But some of the other renders I've seen in other colors, mm.

1:47:44My biggest gripe is the door looks, like, just like it doesn't match the rest of the car. Interesting. Right? Like, it has this nice hard line, and then the door happens, and it goes away, and it's this, like, shadow. It's like a shadow. And then the line comes back on the back panel. Interesting. Yeah. It would have been cool if they kept the line through the little car. Yeah. Sorry I ruined it for you. Yeah. Never mind. I don't like it anymore. I don't want to play with you anymore. Okay. Well. But yeah, that happened the same day, and obviously was overshadowed on social media by the one that flipped over upside down. You know, under-promise, over-deliver.

1:48:16I'm going to say that forever. I have a feeling both of these are over-promising. Well, Porsche's not really promising anything. Yeah. Just that it might look like that. Pretty much. Fair. Mid-engine. Not that it goes half the speed of sound. Yeah. The only real promise that gets people going is it lives above the 911. And, like, the 911 is a really high-end car. The Roadster lives above the 911 when it's fucking doing a kickflip over it. Flying through the air. Yeah. Anyway, that's all. That's my brief car's corner. But you know what? Is 100% real confirmed?

1:48:48You can have it right now, and I won't even take a single cent from you. My trivia point? Oh, yeah. There you go. Also, everyone, I see you tweeting at me that people have figured out how to get developer access into webOS TVs and are building their own little things. That's awesome. I'm doing it a different way at home. I'll talk about it on a future episode. But I do see that this exists.

Trivia and Google apps on iOS

1:49:11And same with Android TVs. I saw this morning that people were vibe-coding their own TV UIs, and someone made a Wii one. Oh, send me that. I want to see that. I will. It's pretty interesting. And I think, I won't talk about it too long, I think the thing that a lot of people are realizing is the way you do it, it's a little bit easier on Android TV than webOS, is that you essentially give yourself developer access over Wi-Fi so that you can hit the console from a separate machine. And I think a lot of people ask Claude, like, hey, get into my TV and let me do this.

1:49:43And then Claude did it, and they were like, wait, you can get in dev mode to my TV just by being on the same Wi-Fi network. Anyway, it's a little more complicated. There's some other stuff like that. We also didn't get to talk about the crazy, that's the certificate issuing company in India. For all my ICANN nerds that watched our seven secret history keys internet episode, there was a really crazy piece of security key news that hit the internet yesterday. Wait, really? Yeah. The TLDR, like I know we got to do trivia and wrap up this episode.

1:50:17The TLDR is like, you know how there are those certificate issuing companies that generate like giant numbers. And then when you do your HTTPS, it confirms that number, and then you get the lock, and you know you're actually on the site that the DNS promised. A bunch of keys got leaked from a major one of those certificate issuers in India. Oh. One of the keys, so the numbers are supposed to be like 100 digits long in DES and like 300 digits long in binary, something like that. Um, one of the, uh, one of the keys was four, uh, not four digits, just the, just the number

1:50:55four. Are you, what? Yes. What? Incredible. Anyway, guys, there are 71 Google apps listed on the iOS app store. Oh, shoot. You need to write down one and whoever's app is the least updated, least recently updated gets the point.

1:51:17I'm kind of not sure if this is real. Oh, we also didn't get to talk about the PHP vulnerability. Ugh. The drug. No, it's, uh, it's a coding language. It's PHP. That's, I was like, do we need to cut that? No. I don't, I don't know how we cut around that. It's fine. We'll leave it in. The existence of things is not promotion. So you read me an app and I will tell you. I'm sorry, it's just when it was last updated. I'm very curious for these.

1:51:47It's about to die. So we gotta, we gotta, we gotta run it. All right. Oh, who wants to? What? Is that an app? That's a really good one. We'll find out. Someone give me one. I wrote Google Slides. Google Slides. I just don't know anyone who's ever used it. I feel like. I like thought, do I just go save and make sure I pick something that I'm right? That like is real? I almost wrote keep. You know what it is? Business. I almost wrote keep. Was it updated yesterday? Google Slides was in fact updated yesterday. Yeah. I kind of wanted to do it when what was the most recent and I would have guessed Google Play.

1:52:18Business software gets updated every day. No, Google Play was not one of the most recent. Andrew, what did you put? I wrote Google Duo. Google Duo is not even on the App Store anymore. Is it not even on the App Store anymore? Which is why. Have they deleted it though? I was hoping they just forgot to delete it. It's really gone? I was going to put Inbox by Google. It's really gone. Whoa. Yeah. Didn't it get merged into Google Meet? It got merged into Google Meet. I don't even remember. Mine might not be there because Fi exists now. No, no, no. Fi is different from Fiber. Did it merge them? No, they did not. Okay, maybe. So, Mark, as you put. I put Google Fiber because I don't know if there's an app for it.

1:52:50There almost definitely is an app for it. If there is an app for it, it means you win because. Yeah, because I was one day and Andrew was null. Well, I also guessed Google or Duo because I was like, oh, is that what he was thinking? Allo was a separate app. It's just neat now, I think. And it's gone too? Allo was, yeah, Allo's also gone. Oh. And chat. Duo lasted longer than Allo. Allo was like their Hangouts replacement. Oh, Hangouts probably been a minute. Hangouts does not exist anymore because it got merged into. That's why. I thought if they had 71 apps, there's probably some vestigial apps that just sit around.

1:53:23That was my guess. I was hoping that maybe it was there for like some stupid reason. Well, I was going to say Inbox by Google, but I don't think that exists anymore. Can I search the list? They closed it down a long time ago, but I don't think it's on the App Store anymore. I need, so. I want to search. And are we talking about updated on the iOS App Store? On the iOS App Store. Oh, on the iOS App Store? Yes, specifically. Oh. Here's the, here's, this is tricky. There's an app called G Fiber. Oh, that's not Google. Yeah. And it is made by a company called Google Fiber Inc., but it's not the same developer

1:53:57account as the rest of the Google app. So I'm, I can't really tell if this is. Yeah. I don't think this is Google Fiber. Can I see this? Can you link us this list? I'll take the L. Does that, does that mean you win with an app that was updated yesterday? Oh, shit. That's what I was saying. We should have just picked one. Let's go. That's brutal. Damn. We should have both said keep. Oh, keep definitely was longer. I crossed it out. It was longer. I thought that would be updated like this year. It was this year for sure, but not yesterday. I mean, a year, within a year is probably three old. Oldest.

1:54:28Wow. The three oldest. Number three, Photo Scan by Google Photos. Oh, yeah. That was a separate app? Yeah, it was. It was updated. It still is a separate app. November 21st, 2022. It's still on the app store. Oh, my God. It is still really good. And number two, the Gboard app. What? Yeah. Hasn't been updated? I was going to try it on the Duo, actually. Oh, maybe on the iPhone. I bet you Gboard on Android has gotten updated a thousand times. On iPhone, it was last updated May of 2022. That's crazy. And the least recently updated app by Google on iOS is Google Cloud Search.

1:55:02Last updated November 6th, 2019. I have no idea what that app does. Neither do they. Neither do they. Everyone who worked on that has left the company, I guarantee you. So, David, congratulations on your point. I'm going to give a quick update. It's like a participation award. That's literally what I got. That is painful. It's a strategy. I really wish I had done the I make stuff up question now. I'm really, I'm sorry, guys. Can I just name a couple apps that I didn't know were apps that Google has? ReCaptcha is an app for some reason. Wait, I've seen that logo a thousand times.

1:55:35I guess it's an app that Google makes.

1:55:38Fitbit Ace.

1:55:40That's just another Fitbit app? Just an app for one of the Fitbits. Oh, my God. There's an app for Fitbit Ace. Oh, is that like for kids? Which now Google owns? I guess. I guess. Own Fitbit, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Google Fi Wireless is still here. Google Tasks would have been a good guess. Google Opinion Rewards. Separate app. No way. Yeah. Wait, when did that get updated? What do you do it in? I don't know. It's in there. I have that as a separate app. I have that as a separate app. Yeah. You're right. It is a separate app. Google Arts and Culture. My favorite thing about that.

1:56:11Arts and Culture is great. Yeah, it's dope. All right, shout out to museums. My favorite Opinion Rewards thing is you'll get a question that's like, have you been to any of these places recently? And it's like seven things and one that you literally just left. Like I just got home from the grocery store. It's like, have you been to like Chipotle or LL Bean or at the ShopRite I know you were just at? And you're like there. It's like, oh, when'd you go? The last month? The last week? Have you gotten the ones where it shows you a screenshot of a Google search you did?

1:56:41Yeah, yeah. And you're like, you took that? Yeah. Well, but every time I do that, then you press back to look at the other one and it disappears from there. No, my favorite thing is every week I get one that says, were you born in New Mexico? And I say, no, and then it gives me a quarter and it does it over and over again. Infinite money glitch? It's infinite money glitch. Guys, so not much to update on the score. David, congratulations on your 17th point. Marquez and Andrew, you're just behind. It's not even worth it. Incredible. Don't worry about it. It's not even worth talking about yourself.

1:57:12Right. It's your turn. Wow. Okay. Pity point party. Okay. So my question for you is, what iconic tech duo had a feature called Knock Knock?

1:57:27You're supposed to say who's there. Oh, who's there? Entire guess is based off of Marquez saying, nice phrasing. God, I really remember. I really remember the name of the feature, but I really don't. The feature's named Knock Knock, isn't it? It's an iconic tech duo. I hope I get this right, because you guys gave too many hints, but I'm probably just wrong. I'm so close. You know this, David. You know it. Well, it's too late now. I hope I'm right. I want to see yours first. Oh, never mind. Flip him around.

1:57:58Oh. Flip him around. Okay. Okay.

1:58:03Wow. So. Wow. That is an iconic tech duo. I'm on my first, because I am wrong. I really thought you guys had this one. I wrote lingo, like duolingo. And I thought maybe there was a, like, learn how to say hello in different languages by knocking. That's a good thought. That's a good thought. That's a good thought. David, what did you say? I wrote the Surface Duo, but I don't, you know. I think there, so I wrote this, there's like an LG phone that had like a case that had a second screen on it, and you could like knock, knock on the outside, and it would show, it would light up and show you. You're talking about the dot matrix case?

1:58:34No, that's HTC. Oh, right. LG had like a case that you could knock on the outside, it would show you the inside. I don't know if it was called Duo, but it seems like it would, because it has a second screen. So like, maybe that? I guess not. So, I really wanted to give you an easy question. I was really trying to get y'all some points this week. Oh. And. It better not be iPhone. We went too hard. It's definitely not. Does anyone have a backup guess? I'm just, is the feature to turn, oh no, that was like the, I was thinking of like the tap, tap to turn on the flashlight.

1:59:04Can you read the question one more time? What iconic tech duo had a feature called knock, knock? Do you want another hint? Yeah. Can you tell us what the feature does? I don't f***ing know. It would give it away. Okay. Oh, it would give it away. I would take a little hint. If I give you another hint, it's just going to tell them what that is. Can I just. Why don't we just give you, we can give you just a different question. Well, no, I want to know what this is. What if you just give the hint and it's first person who answers. Okay. If I say this was an iconic, popular video conferencing platform.

1:59:37Google duo. Oh, well, yeah. That's so funny that I almost got. I got it right on my first question. I was going to. Yes. I was like, he knows he's looking at me. He knows. I remember what it was. What it was, was that if you started video calling the other person, they would see your feed on their screen before they answered. Yes, David. That's what it was. This is tech trivia in action. So it's like what FaceTime does now, right?

2:00:07No. FaceTime does not show. Like if I FaceTime you, you do not see my face. So the way it would work is like if we had two pixel phones or whatever or anything with duo, I would call you on duo and I would be like, Andrew, Andrew, what's up, Andrew? But I wouldn't see you. You would only see me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like a one way. Before you answered, you got to decide whether or not you wanted to answer Facebook. I'm sure no one ever abused that feature. It's a crazy feature. You're in a meeting. Anyway. Okay. I'm taking control. The trivia has gotten out of control.

2:00:38We got to return to our roots. We're doing one more question. I know it's a long podcast. Okay. I need a point. I need a point so bad. We just got to. We have to take it back, y'all. All right. One news story we did not talk about this week were the discovered vulnerabilities in the programming language PHP. You don't need to know what PHP is to answer this question. PHP, excuse me, the PHP vulnerabilities affect lots of services such as Duple, Finkie, Joomla,

2:01:08and Magneto. Excuse me. Magneto. Magento. Which one of those is not a real CMS platform? Say them all again.

2:01:19Drupal, Finkie, Magento, and Joomla.

2:01:29That is Drupal, Finkie, Magento, and Joomla. Joomla. J-O-O-M-L-A. They are all CMS platforms. Like Jude Law? Like. The actor? Please. I'm going to get this one. Okay. Unfortunately, Marquez, Drupal is a CMS platform. Oh, no. Sorry. David, you are corrected as a CMS platform. Marquez, you are wrong. Yeah. Oh, wait. But is David right when he says Finkie? I said Finkie.

2:02:00You're both right when you say Finkie. Let's go. Finkie is not a real thing. I made Finkie up. Unfortunately, this does almost nothing to the Delta, meaning this was a waste of time. No, I'm further from Marquez. Yeah. Also. Closer to Marquez. Yeah. And I'm also farther away. Yeah. You know what's weird is that a lot of CMS platforms have a lot of like double O's and U's in them. Or no vowels at all. Yeah. Well, no. Well, I don't know. That's just most tech products.

2:02:31Yeah. Marquez, I was trying to give you a point, brother. I was really trying. I should have got that right. It's all good. Read us out. This podcast has gone on way too long as it is. I know this is hungry and wants lunch. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Who said that? You putting words in his mouth? Yeah. Well, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Of course, we will have much more. Techtober is literally only halfway over. It's insane. We have much more coming. There's literally events next week. It's going to happen. So stay tuned. Get subscribed.

2:03:02See you then. Thanks for watching. Mac McGoldra. Bye. Waveform is produced by Mariah Zank and Ellis Roven, a partner of Fox Media Podcast Network. And intro outro music was created by Vainstil. Bing duo. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.

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