#473/New Canaan Modernism: Builder David Prutting + Architect Sacha Roubeni + Musical Guest Carrie Marshall

Welcome to New Canaan

0:00Hi, this is R&W. You can listen to my Spacey Cakes albums on YouTube, and you're listening to U.S. Modernist Radio. Mama don't allow no architecture around here. Mama don't allow no architecture around here. Oh, I don't care what mama don't allow, gonna draw my modern anyhow. Mama don't allow no architecture around here. Welcome to U.S. Modernist Radio, where we talk and laugh with people who enjoy, own, create, dream about, preserve, love, and hate modernist architecture, the most exciting and

0:36controversial buildings in the world. I'm Tom Geild. Today, let's visit one of our favorite modernist cities, New Canaan, Connecticut. It's a town full of modernist houses made famous by architects known as the Harvard Five. Google them for more info. And today, we'll be talking with David Prudding, the New Canaan contractor who's built many modernist houses over the last 50 years. Then we'll talk with the architect of New Canaan's newest modernist house, Sasha Rubini. Later, we're back in the studio with returning musical

1:07guest, Carrie Marshall. And now, here's your host, a visitor to New Canaan every June and every other October, Mr. Modernism, George Smart.

When Families Trust Their Guts

1:16Hey, thanks, Tom. For 40 years, Hal and Marjorie lived in a lovely, curvy, flat-roofed, glass-walled 1972 modernist house that their neighbors described as interesting and their mailman described as a fire station. Marjorie and Hal truly loved it. Hal, though, believed that maintenance was optional. For example, the roof had been due for replacement since the Clinton administration. The original sliding doors slid, technically, if you were willing to fully commit your entire

1:49body weight. Then, Hal died, and Marjorie got sick and moved out to assisted living. And the house, for the first time in its life, was alone. Two years pass. Modernist houses do not handle loneliness well. Unsupervised, unlived in, they decay rapidly with no one there to notice. Within those two years, the flat roof began collecting water like it was saving for retirement. A skylight leaked. The fridge conked out, and the food rotted. The mahogany paneling developed what the family

2:22called patina and what everyone else would call mold. At this point, a reasonable family would call a roofer who has actually stood on a flat roof, perhaps also a structural engineer. This family decided to call cousin Dennis, who sold building supplies. Dennis had once replaced a gutter. That's it. He walked through the house, squinted at the post and beam ceiling, and announced, you're looking at maybe $48,000 to fix this. Dennis did not say $48,000 for what,

2:52and $48,000 entered the family record now as a fact. Marjorie's son-in-law, Greg, who sells insurance, disagreed. He had a gut feeling. Teardown, he said, tapping his chest, where his gut apparently lives. Pressed for how he knew, Greg explained his expertise. He'd driven past a lot of houses like this. An appraiser was suggested, but Greg said, why pay someone to tell us what we already know? A friend from church thought it could be flipped for a million because she'd seen a show on HGTV. And Aunt Linda thought the

3:27whole property was worth $850,000 tops because nobody wants weird houses anymore. This was a rigorous market analysis she compiled from Instagram. Soon, the family's gut-based evaluations ranged from $150,000 to a million. Meanwhile, Marvin, a skilled contractor who restores mid-century houses for a living, offered to come out with his laptop, 15 years of working on 12 modernist houses and a bunch of measuring devices. The family declined. We're still gathering input, they said. And then

4:02they shuffled off to ask the neighbor's daughter, Lucy, who was already three whole weeks studying architecture at MIT. The roof kept leaking. Each month of stalling and deliberation and asking each other plunged the house into more danger. It could have easily been saved with a very knowable number. The land was worth a knowable number. Both were a phone call away, but the family chose instead to trust their gut. For anyone holding keys to an aging modernist house, friends and family are great

4:34for a cookout, but they generally make terrible experts. You don't ask your cousin Ernie, not a doctor, to do your gallbladder surgery. You don't ask your sister, who's never owned a house, how much to pay for a roof. These important decisions require real data from people who actually know and have experience of what they're doing. U.S. Modernist Radio is underwritten by the Brent R. Harris Charitable Trust, restorer of Richard Neutra's Kauffman Desert House in Palm Springs, and six other houses in

5:04California. By the E. Faye Jones Conservancy, preserving the legacy of modernist architecture in Northwest Arkansas. E. Faye Jones Conservancy.org. And by Diane Bald and the Budman Family, restoring significant architecture in Toronto, Los Angeles, Malibu, and Palm Springs.

Talking With Builder David Prudding

5:25Builder David Prudding started out on Cape Cod, running a one-man roofing and carpentry operation. 50 years later, that operation is Prudding and Company. The new Canaan, Connecticut firm, he and his wife Deborah, built into one of the region's premier custom construction and restoration outfits, including the restoration of Marcel Breuer's 1951 house. He's built and restored homes with architects like Jim Cutler and Toshika Mori. And he's just published a new book on the firm's

5:58history, A Builder's Life Done Well. Here's George with David Prudding. David, I'm looking at your new book, A Builder's Life Done Well. This is just a rock star edition of one incredible house after another. Now, people call me all the time and want my advice on which architect to hire. And I always tell them, that's not your problem. Your problem is to find a builder who knows what they're doing. And you are a builder who knows what they're doing. Congratulations.

6:30Thank you very much, George. I think it's all about design to me. We're the ones that bridge the gap from the concept to the final product, but we're not the only ones that are able to do it. But that first iteration, the first plan, you know, that's not for everyone. That's very challenging. So I would turn those words around. It's find the right designer, then go find us. Okay. All right. Well, you are certainly the group to find because your craftsmanship

7:04and the extent to which you can work with all these different materials is amazing. Well, the facts are, George, there's 35 people who work here. And most of them are far more skilled than I ever could be. I mean that, honestly, we have a lot of talented people. We've been bringing on, starting about 20 years ago, started hiring architectural school grads, architects that were disenchanted with their business and would come along here, enjoy the building side.

7:39So there's all kinds of education and know-how here and the communication from architects to the hands that build it are extensive here. So I want to give most of the credit to our team. My role is, at this stage, management and coaching and support. But no, I give all the credit to our team. We have a lot of skilled people, including builders who, for whatever reason, decided they didn't want

8:14to be self-employed contractors any longer and come work under our tent. And those are valuable players because they're skilled at what they do, building houses, renovations, and they just don't want the headache of management and collecting money and so on. So we have a good team. So you're the Yoda now in the group. Yeah. You know, I got a real good compliment one time from Steve Kieran. Kieran Timberlake. Yes.

8:45From Philadelphia. Well, we went to a completed house. The owner had a party for all the players. And I remember him saying to me, well, Dave, you know, this is impressive. Well done. Blah, blah, blah. And I said, well, look, I didn't do a thing here. You know, I drove in and looked at it and went to job meetings and so on. He said, yeah, but Dave, you created the culture. I like that. I'll take that compliment. So yeah, as we keep growing, we've attracted good people. And I'm very proud of that.

Restoring an Elliot Noyes House

9:22Well, let's go back in time. It's 1998. And you and your wife buy an Elliot Noy's house. What on earth possessed you to do that? It was affordable. I don't know if you know the property, but beautiful property. I was up on a hill, northeastern New Canaan, was run down, really in bad shape. From that plateau, there were views of Long Island and Long Island Sound in the winter months when the trees are down. It was affordable.

9:57We had sold a house. I've bought and sold five, six houses in New Canaan over the years. Buy them, fix them up, sell them, cash in on the capital gains deduction. The property was stunning. I remember we pulled in the driveway on a steaming hot July day with a moving van with all our stuff. We walked through the main house. It was disgusting. The cellar had literally ripped the glass holders,

10:33vanity mirrors, taken those. The sconces were removed on either side of a mirror. This was a run down Elliot Noy's 1949, 51 house. The glass, a lot of the picture windows, sliding doors, the seals were broken. You know, we walked through and we saw it before we bought it. Yeah. But like many houses, when it's furnished, a lot of things are disguised. But anyway,

11:06the steaming hot day, I'll never forget it. And there's a pool house on the property and that was in good shape. I think Alan Goldberg had designed- He did, indeed. We walked through, it was relatively clean. It had two bedrooms and one bathroom. We decided we'll put our teenage kids there. At least they'll have a clean house to live in. And in the meantime, we went in the big house. But again, the primary selling point was beautiful property. It was

11:38affordable for us at that time. And no regrets. It was beautiful living there. There had been instances of deer and birds running into the glass. It was expansive glass and a beautiful property. Was this the first modernist house you had worked on as a company? I think no. Part of that, I had done a job in Rye Harrison area with Joe Moore for a prominent client

12:09that was contemporary in style. I say contemporary. And it was very different than our McMansion approach. So I had had some exposure to minimalist housing. So the list of architects that work with you is really impressive. Job Moore, Sauer McCown, Stephen Harris, Bolin Swinski-Jackson, in-studio architecture, Vansini Design, Stephen Hall, Andrew Martocchio, Toshiko Mori, Kieran Timberlake, Olson Kundig.

12:42How did all these folks find you? Good question. And very fortunate that they did. I think it started back with that Elliot Noyes house because that got published a lot around. It was a Metropolis magazine, did a story on that. Shelter magazines covered it. And then, you know, I think the next call was from Toshiko Mori's office. I had been pursuing a different type of market, starting with architects. And I had reached out,

13:18and I still do on occasion, to architects when I see something that I really like. Yeah. I've been shy about reaching out and saying, you know, we're here if you need some help. But I want to say the first contact came through Toshiko Mori, and then others would follow. And Job Moore was, and still is, we've done the most jobs with him. And he recommended me all the time. So, you know, one by one, we started finding his jobs. And we met Jim Cutler. I'm trying to remember

13:52how. It was an owner down here had hired him. And he's out of Seattle. I think you know who I'm talking about. Yes. Oh, sure. But he had a local project. And I met him down there in an interview. He's a character. And I say so in this book. If he reads that book, he might not be happy about what I've said. But I was very impressed with the guy. But while we were interviewing for a job in Rye, he said, hey, would you consider going up into the Hudson Valley? We're talking about an area an hour,

14:27hour and a half north of the city and from here. And he had a project that he had tentatively hired a builder that he lost confidence in. And I was like, sure, you know, we'll go. That's always been my attitude. Yeah, we'll try it. We'll figure it out. So we worked for him for two jobs, the one up north and then the one down here in Rye, which is a really, really spectacular project. Both jobs were fun.

14:59You know, that's always been my situation of my interest. I mean, fine, you know, show me something new. Challenge us. We like that. Yeah. So I don't know. One thing led to another. And then once we had built a house up in the Hudson Valley, then I got a Toshiko Mori project, we did two for her up in that similar area. One's featured in the books, pretty amazing. Multiple buildings on one property,

15:29multiple glass buildings. It's really a stunning project. Now that project that you did initially for Cutler, was that for Susan Orlean, her weekend retreat? Exactly. Okay. Up in... Pine Plains. Pine Plains area. Correct. Thanks for helping. Yeah. Well, it's on our website under Jim Cutler's projects. Oh, it is. I didn't know that. Yeah. She was a terrific client. Now I'll tell you this, this is an oddity. When we met Cutler, he looked us directly in the eye and said, you do not

16:03talk to the owner. You know, no good mornings, nothing. You do not talk to the owner. And when you have a question or you want to know something, you call me. Okay. And of course, that was pretty difficult to pull off. Yeah. And the ride client down here almost like challenged us day one. Hey, how you doing? What are you going to do? What are you, where are you starting today? Okay. I can't

16:34talk to you. He's pretty eccentric that way. He knows what he wants. And I've mentioned in the book how he draws all the sections himself. Yeah. I mean, this is unique to me and he's very accurate about it. It's impressive. So yes, Susan Orleans was a wonderful client. And then we did another job down here, which is very amazing. I don't know if you have it on your website, but it's

17:06yards and yards of stonework. Impressive interior and exterior. Okay. It's in Purchase, New York. And that was a Cutler project? Yes, it is. Oh, here it is. It's called Crafted Sanctuary. Yeah. That's the one I'm referring to. That's the one in Purchase. Okay. It's an amazing place. It really is. It would be a perfect Montessori school. It's laid out almost like a dumbbell. You have a center connector and then two wings that are symmetrical that could

17:40be easily converted into classrooms and well-lit and beautifully done. He's a very talented fellow. His partner, Bruce Anderson. Yes. Is an asset as well.

Advice on Building Modernist Homes

17:55David, what advice can you give clients who are thinking about building a new modernist house? Is this going to be censored? Sure. We can bleep you if you want. No, tell them they're out of their minds. Okay. I actually wrote an article that got published basically listing all the reasons why not to. You know, it's a passion play, right? Right. It's like buying art or collecting whatever.

18:27I'd say most of the clients we work with know that their projects will never be sold for the amount of money they're going to put into it. Yeah. In fact, that's one of the criteria that I like to point out subtly or otherwise that you're never going to get your money back because these are all finesse plays. They're all very unique and specific to the client, obviously. Okay. So seriously advisable would be, it's not going to happen in nine

19:04months, 11 months, 14 months. No, not at all. You're going to spend more than you probably want to. Number two, the process can be extremely stressful. A lot of these clients, George, can afford anything. Sure. So you don't sit down and talk about door hardware, you know, Schlage versus rings and doorknobs because they could say, well, what about this? And I saw this in a magazine and hand forged this

19:37and that and imported from Italy. And sure. You know, but some of those things, first of all, decision-making is everything in this construction business. In these unique, one-of-a-kind houses. And so many of those are. Decision-making really is everything. It kills the schedule. I feel like, well, we'll have to think about that. So it may take a while. And, you know, I preach here and our people will say to the owner, whatever you need to do, you're the boss.

20:10We're on your side. But privately, we're saying, oh, man, there's another delay. And changes, you know, changes cause a disruption and a delay and more time, more management and extend the job. There is a point in these projects that go on where everybody's like had enough, you know. Particularly the owners are like, when are we going to be done? You told us January and it's March. Or it's Christmas. Like, where's my house?

20:44The key, we're not making more money if it goes on longer and longer. The more efficient the job and the completion schedule, the better we do financially. However, you know, whatever the client wants, fine. You need us to wait, fine. But there are consequences to that. So it's a big play, these new houses. And one other negative is, like around here in the Gold Coast of Fairfield County and Westchester, New York, there aren't that many lots around. So if you want to

21:21buy a lot and build a new house, I mean, 90% of the best of them are gone. Let's face it. And what remains is expensive or on a stone cliff or not well located. So it's a big challenge. It's starting with, where are you going to build your new house? Teardowns are really viable, good option. You know, find the worst house in the best possible location. And hopefully you can recycle

21:55utilities. Maybe you already have underground power in a location or septic systems that are reusable or well water systems that are reusable, even parts of the house that are reusable. I've just featured one of the houses in that book is half there. And, you know, we added to it, a client bought a property and kept half of the project and we added it on to it. So back to your original question, be brave and be wealthy. Unfortunately, it's not that we're more

22:34expensive than everybody else. It's just the process can be expensive and the longer it goes, likely the more it's going to cost. That's good advice. Now, your houses have won many awards for both design and construction, but I'm interested in knowing what was the biggest technical challenge? What did you find the hardest to actually bring to reality?

The Cliffside Project Challenges

22:58Easy answer. The Stephen Hole project on a cliffside, on literally 45 degree cliffside. And at the bottom of the cliff were train tracks for the Hudson River line. And on the other side of that was the Hudson River. And the plan is crazy. If you look at it. I have. Yeah, I know the house. It's crazy. And did you do the main house or the guest house? We were hired because the main house that Hole designed went on for 10 years.

23:31The story was the contractor who was hired was West Coast based, somehow got involved. They would have barbecues on Friday afternoon. You know, work would stop at one o'clock. But anyway, enough disparagement. So we got brought in because there was a second house, this guest house. And the architect literally said to me, we don't know if we ever want to deal with this guy again.

24:03They haven't finished what we started literally 10 years earlier. So we were hired like, and the other guy was still finishing the big house, which turned out wonderfully, I'm told. It just took forever. So we were brought in to build this guest house. I had two young design school graduates that ran the job. My project manager was about a four foot 10, freckle face, red haired, young woman

24:34named Catherine Markowitz. I used to tell people her brain was much bigger than most of us. A dynamic young woman and a young man that was our job super, also as a graduate of RPI, the two of them were. They both came in the door about the same year. But these two guys, and then I had a general manager, Dave McGeehan, who's kind of a master builder. The three of them got that built. And our president

25:08here, Jack Truman, did the estimating, which was like, how the hell did you figure out what this was going to cost? We had 77 pilings were put in the ground to build a plateau so that we had a flat area to work backwards uphill. There was an I-beam propped up supporting it like a 28 foot tall concrete wall that we had to leave in the ground. It's in the basement of the house. There it is.

25:38The degree of difficulty was a 9.9 and intimidating as hell. But the whole people were great. And they were on the ball and helping us as needed and supervising and aiding us. So we got it done. But far and away, the most difficult. There's been others, but that was memorably difficult. I read that you had to hire somebody to just alert the train company if something rolled down the hill? You did read the book. Yeah, there was a bond had to be placed with either Metro North or

26:15whatever the train line is there, the Hudson lines, because they were concerned that something would damage their tracks, which was clearly a potentiality because it was a 45 degree slope. And we had heavy equipment on that. So yes, for about a month, six weeks, they sent an observer to literally sit and watch the ongoing activities and prepare to alert the train line in the event of a catastrophe.

26:47So yeah, a bond had to be placed. Obviously, the owner had to pay that. But I think that was recovered at some point. Perhaps not. That would be an unusual job description to write up. You're going to be a train spotter and watch for things rolling down the track. Yeah. Well, it was real. It happened. This is really great, Dave. Thank you so much for talking with me. The book is A Builder's Life Done Well, The Story of Pruding and Company. I can't wait to see what

27:17else that your fine firm is going to be building. We've got a lot going on. That was George's conversation with David Pruding.

Interview With Architect Sasha Rubini

27:25Sasha Rubini studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Technology with a year abroad in Barcelona. He spent a decade at top New York architects, including Workshop APD, S. Russell Groves, and Sawa McCown. In 2018, Sasha struck out on his own, most recently finishing up a cool house in New Canaan. Here's George's conversation with Sasha Rubini. Sasha, as our research team looked into your practice, it seemed that your breakout moment

27:57was not a house, but a CBD wellness space called Standard Dose. Tell me about that. Yes. So that was one of the very first projects that I was commissioned to do through a friend, the client. His background was in marketing and PR, and he created this CBD brand called Standard Dose. And at the time, this was 2018, I think CBD was still this new thing. It was quite unregulated.

28:27And it had sort of this association with cannabis, understandably, but he wanted to create essentially like an experience flagship store wellness designed around health and wellness. And he had these big plans to create something really special, including a meditation space in the back where they could feature a lot of their products and tinctures and whatnot. And I think it was a project I couldn't say no to, even though I wasn't necessarily doing a lot of retail,

28:59if at all. I just took the opportunity and it was really exciting, fast moving, high intensity project in the city where we designed it in the course of a month and built it in I think two to three months maximum, maybe, which is quite unheard of. Not anything I was ever used to. And we got all this press and featured and all these different magazines and won some awards. And it was just a really exciting start for my studio. At the time, was CBD and THC legal in New York City?

29:36CBD was, in a way. THC was not at the time. Not like it is now. Yeah. And is the facility still running? No, they had a pretty solid run. I think the brand still exists, but the store itself, I think shortly after or around COVID, they just closed up. Yeah. That would be tough. It's a shame. To make it through that. I think that the tenant after actually, they kept the space as is. I don't know what they were selling, but it wasn't THC, CBD products at all. Ever since then, I walked by that survey now

30:10that now it's become like a deli or some sort of a supermarket that's completely just, they renovated the entire interior, which is totally understandable. Yeah. Well, now you're getting old enough to see some of your projects go by the wayside. Yes, that's true. That's a real career defining moment in an architect's life. Exactly. The full life of a project, if you have to say. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. It's pretty cool. From press darling to deli.

30:41Especially New York City. It's one of the most New York. And it's happened to a few of my other retail projects is that they don't stay forever, no matter how well you try to design them. It's just out of your hands.

Designing New Canaan Homes

30:52Let's switch now to New Canaan, Connecticut. This is a town, as many people know, that has probably about a hundred significant modernist houses that started as early. Most people think it was the fifties or the forties, but it actually was the thirties with a fantastic house that was put there that is no longer with us. This town has probably pound for pound, with the exception of perhaps Palm Springs or Columbus, Indiana, more of these amazing homes than about any place in the country.

31:26But the interesting thing is that the town and the citizens of New Canaan have never really quite embraced modernism. In fact, they've had a lot of problems with it. Early on, they were writing stern letters to the editor about how these weird looking boxes were coming into town and invading all their spaces. So let's start out with the story of this house. How did you get this commission? And what was the process of getting it through the various planning processes of New Canaan? Yeah, it was, we were introduced to the clients through the builder that builds a lot of luxury

32:04homes out there, especially in Fairfield County, Westport area, not so much New Canaan. And we got on a Zoom call. I think they were quite familiar with the work I was doing at the previous studio. I used to work at workshop APD, which was where I learned most of my aesthetic and helped me sort of build a practice. So we got on a Zoom call that they gave us the brief. They were actually already in construction with a local architect that had designed the core and shell for the most part to

32:34their specific liking, but it can only go so far with the original architect. And we essentially came in to take over. And so we were introduced... Hang on a second. That's kind of unusual, isn't it? To just dump one architect for another in the middle of a construction project? There's got to be more to that story. Yeah, it was, I think, being familiar with New Canaan and Connecticut, a lot of the houses, especially the new ones coming out, they all kind of look the same. They're quote-unquote modern.

33:05They have that farmhouse aesthetic, you know, gabled roofs, whatnot. But, you know, they're always still wrapped in horizontal white siding and the same sort of shingled roofs. And I think the client's modern is something a little bit more contemporary. And then that architect just couldn't really break out of what they were doing. And, you know, they reached out to us originally to be the interior architect and the interior designer. And they quickly realized that we can do more than just that. And, you know, we had profound interest in also helping to design

33:38the exterior, which had a good start. But we started playing around with the window sizes and the entry. And, you know, we massaged the plans. And as you know, what happens in the interior of the house relates to the exterior. And then we brought in the landscape design that we worked with on another house we did. And then just organically, the house started to really take form in terms of materiality and a balance. And, you know, we didn't do that much of a change to the exterior, except for we actually really applied the right materials, where it was just literally a white box

34:09at the time. And yeah, it wasn't the last time that has happened. I think we've had a few projects since in that area where it was the same thing. We're not really Connecticut designers or architects, but, you know, the clients go so far and then they bring us in, same exact scenario. And then we would go on to replace them, the original architect. Now, a few projects in, we're fortunate enough to get the call early in the process, which is always more ideal. So, New Canaan didn't just actually

34:40come out and hold a parade for you. What kind of issues did you have getting this project built? Oh, being our first house with the builder and also doing a probably significantly more contemporary house in terms of materiality, details, products, brands, everything we were sort of bringing to the table. My background is working in high-end interior architecture and design and furniture in the city. So, we have that sort of city mentality and attention to detail. And I think it was a bit

35:13of a learning curve for not just the contractor, but the subcontractors. We didn't have to be able to town all that much since the permits were all there and we kind of got to do whatever, but it was just getting those modern, you could say, minimalist details explained and executed was a tall task. We often were on site on a weekly basis and we were kind of co-GC-ing the project in a way, which we do for the most part with a lot of our projects, but really, I mean, we spent God

35:44knows how many hours just making sure that our renderings, our designs, our drawings were being followed, which was not easy. So, the issue wasn't so much the permitting process as it was getting your builder and your subs to understand what you were trying to accomplish. Exactly, yeah. Okay. Well, I got to say, I visited the house personally and you pulled it off. Thank you. Yes, that was a fun day. And the house itself has quite a high degree of landscape architecture, unusual for houses these days.

36:18Tell me about that. The house was situated on a not-so-flat land. It had a rolling hill that was rolled down towards the street, but they also had this sort of a steep drop-off to the house next door to the left of it. And it was quite a big property. Similar to us, the clients had originally inherited a landscape architect through the builder that did a preliminary plan and had this pool, infinity pool facing the neighbor. And it was kind of off to the side and it seemed a bit

36:49forced. When we invited this landscape designer, his name is Jonathan Fargion, really talented designer that we did a few houses with before. He came in and essentially threw out the original plan and presented just one option, which was to situate the pool perpendicular to the house instead of parallel off to the side and create this sort of open yard that allowed for this big field and various plantings that wrapping around the house. And then he also had this idea of doing a symmetrical

37:22courtyard driveway with this crushed stone, but then decided to create this almost like a grid-like forest. I'm butchering the description, but he essentially had a row of these trees that were quite big and create these two pathways that led to the house. So it actually, in quite a nice way, conceals the front of the house. So you don't really get a sense of the entryway until you walk through it, which I thought was really interesting. He did an incredible job of really taking the site as it was

37:58and making these few gestures that really added to the house, not only elevated, but the landscaping was just as interesting as the house itself, if not more so. You can drive by it on Country Club Road in New Canaan, and a few doors down is the famous Noise House by Elliot Noise. Did you get to visit that during the project? You know, to be honest, I have not had the chance of visiting the house. I always knew about it. We're always told about it. It wasn't until the weekend of the tour that I got to meet,

38:28I believe, his son. Fred. Yes, Fred. Fred, his son. He was telling me about it, and we chatted a bit, and he invited me to come by the house and take a tour, which I just hadn't had the chance to do. But it made us realize that, you know, there is, as you mentioned, there's this rich history of modernist homes, especially mid-century homes and famous architects in the area. And this whole time, there was one literally a few doors down, which is exciting. Tell me about your latest project,

The Saugatuck River House Project

38:54which is going to finish up in 2027. So this is another house we're doing for a private client out in Westport, Connecticut, which is about a 15, 20-minute drive from New Canaan, closer to the water. We're calling it the Sagatok River House. The reason being is that it's in a private road and a very wooded site that features this river, a smaller portion of that river called the Sagatok River that cuts through the front end of the site and opens out to this viewpoint. And that was the

39:32main sort of request from the client briefing is to create this viewpoint, especially from the living space and the bedrooms and whatnot, overlooking this view. So if you see the projects rendering on our website, the house is quite contemporary and it's orthogonal, but then you have this triple height reflective glass box that is angled about 45 degrees from the rest of the house, or it's a specific angle that aligns perfectly with the view. And it's unlike the rest of the house. And I thought

40:06it was probably one of the more exciting features from the exterior. And also from the inside, you sort of walk out and you have this double height space and it's the main living area where the family's going to be spending most of their time. So just like the New Canaan house, it's a fairly big property. It's their, as of now, summer weekend house, but I think realistically it's going to be something they're going to live in full-time as the family grows. And it's very exciting. I think every house we do, we just learn more and more about our clients and we get used to

40:38the way things are there and we adjust and we're very excited about it. And I think we're about a year away from completing it. As you do these houses, what are the biggest bottlenecks? I know at one point it was getting windows, at another point it was getting wood. What are you finding these days in terms of materials that you really have to plan in advance to get on time? We try to source materials that are local, but we honestly balance it out with products that are

41:10very much not local and in fact produced overseas, whether it's porcelain tiles in Italy or kitchens from Germany. We'll source our siding from this brand Rieson that we love using in most of our houses and that is an Australian product. So I think the biggest challenge is just getting these materials delivered to the site in time to not hold up construction, which is the contractors and clients kind of biggest concern is this is holding up the timeline and then understandably trying to find

41:46alternative materials, which is where we always as architects designers push back on. We try to really fight for these materials and, you know, sometimes it doesn't work out that way. But that's the biggest thing is just ordering the windows well ahead of schedule, ordering the siding, looking at the overall timeline of the job, and then also not just exterior, but the interior materials and making sure enough of it is ordered and planning ahead and make sure there's enough waste material ordered in case there's mistakes being made because it's their first time using this product that they've never used before.

42:20I mean, we get it all the time and it's kind of a good thing to know that, oh, I've never used this ventilation grill that is super minimal. And it's like, great, well, now you get to learn. Yeah, yeah. So, Sasha, thank you so much for talking with me. Thank you. Appreciate it. That was Sasha Rubini speaking with George Smart.

Musical Guest Carrie Marshall

42:42Born into a musical family, returning podcast guest Carrie Marshall studied classical piano beginning at the ripe young age of seven. Her father, a pastor, put her in front of the congregation to sing when she was eight. From high school on, she began writing her own songs, and she's now a vocal coach, mentor, and music educator alongside her performing career. Welcome back to the show, Carrie. Thank you so much for having me. Carrie, thanks for coming back. I understand you've been hitting the performing circuit lately.

43:13What's been going on? Yes, I just finished up kind of my winter-spring tour. I'm starting to do more and more performing arts centers, which has been a blast. And I have several different themed shows that I've been putting on at performing arts centers across the Carolinas, North and South Carolina. So I literally just wrapped that up and I'm booking more for the fall. I've got some things there. And then I'm also, you know, I've just released a compilation album. So I'm hoping to get that out in vinyl sometime this summer as well. Lots of things happening behind the scenes.

43:46That's really exciting. Yeah. When you're performing, are there one or two songs that people just love to hear? Yes. My Southern Shade of Blue show in particular is based off of a song that I wrote that I think we have done on this show before. And that show has kind of morphed into really highlighting 60s and 70s music and music from the South specifically, but all, again, filtered through a jazz and blues lens. And so in that show particular, I always do Jolene. But again, it's very funky bluesy. And

44:22Carole King's I Feel the Earth Move. Okay. And Walking After Midnight. Everybody loves Walking After Midnight. That one's so much fun. Patsy Cline's classic. Yes. Yes. I love performing that one. And live, I don't have a recording of this, but live, I also pair that with These Boots Were Made For Walking. It's just my little walking medley. Yeah. Which is really fun to perform. Well, let's hear one of your songs now. This is from your latest single. The song was written by George Harrison in Eric Clapton's Garden after a long dark winter that year and the strain of

44:58Beatles business meetings. It became one of the band's most beloved songs from 1969's Abbey Road with hopeful lyrics and a warm acoustic melody. Here's Carrie with Here Comes the Sun.

Performing Here Comes the Sun

45:09Here comes the Sun. Here comes the Sun. And I say it's all right. Little darling, it's been a long, cold, lonely winter.

45:51Little darling, it feels like years since it's been here. Little darling, it's been a long, cold, lonely winter. Here comes the Sun. Here comes the Sun. Here comes the Sun. And I say it's all right. Little darling, it's been a long, cold, lonely winter. Little darling, it's been a long, cold, lonely winter. Little darling, the smiles returning to the faces. Little darling, it seems like years since it's been here.

46:38Very rare. Little darling, let's patience. Little darling, here comes the Sun. Here comes the Sun. And I say, it's all right. Sun, sun, sun, here it comes Sun, sun, sun, here it comes

47:28Sun, sun, here it comes I feel the ice is slowly melting

48:03Little darling, it seems like years since it's been clear But here comes the sun Here comes the sun And I say it's alright Sun, sun, sun, here it comes

48:38Sun, sun, sun, here it comes Sun, sun, sun, sun Sun, sun, sun, sun, sun Sun, sun, here it comes

49:12That is really the best cover I've ever heard of that Oh my gosh, thank you, you're making my day Yeah Thank you And the harmonica in it That's Carter Minor, he's from Chapel Hill Okay He's a fantastic He's my buddy And he's part of my Southern Shade of Blue shows And he's also a fantastic vocalist So my Southern Shade show Always, you know, when I can get him Because he's also touring all over the place But we kind of combine forces

49:43And that arrangement started with me on piano But I, true confessions When I was putting it together I could never get the Beatles timing It's such crazy, funky timing Yeah, it was a funny time, isn't it? Yes And so finally I was like Oh my goodness I'm just going to do it my way This is how I'm going to do it And then we built the whole arrangement around that The great thing too about the harmonica Is that immediately You're not trying to recreate The original recording Yes That would never have flown

50:14Exactly You can't You can't And honestly That's what I love to do in my shows Because some songs I write They're original But I love arranging other songs that are out there But how do I put my own kind of personal stamp on it So that it's still unique But gives tribute to that classic And I should have mentioned that one earlier too Because that is a favorite People love, love, love that song It just, you know, if you're having a bad day That's one you listen to Well this song is particularly meaningful Because you went through a lot of stress

50:45Yeah In the early part of the 2020s Absolutely What was happening? Oh goodness Well 2020 started with me getting hit on the back of the head So I got a mild brain injury And I had to stop singing, performing And of course we hit the pandemic in March And then more health stuff happened This terrible allergic reaction And then in September I got diagnosed with breast cancer So I had whole nine yards I had chemo I had surgery, radiation, hormone therapy and all that

51:19So that was my 20 through 22 So you had to be in the hospital during Well before COVID Yes Had a vaccine Yes So absolutely Oh boy When I was going in for my treatments I had to go in by myself You know And crazily enough Now I look back And all of that I went through Informed how I do my shows now It was It just gave you laser focus When you're just focusing on Okay get through this day And put your big girl pants on And be brave Because you have to go into that room

51:51By yourself No support can come with you My husband used to wait in the car And I saw also how brave The medical community Yes Was They don't get enough credit for that They don't They were such a lifeline for me Emotionally as well as physically Obviously And I'm so grateful for that community Who showed up to work every day Held my hand Gave me my treatments But yeah That was all during a time when You know We just didn't know what was

52:21Going to happen in the world So But through that That period is when I kind of had my You know as a songwriter And as an artist I always like to think of things in colors And I'm like What is my color And a friend of mine Sent me this verse Right before I was going into my surgery And it was like He knows the way that I take And after he's tried me I'll come forth as gold And I was like gold That is what I'm going to cling to I'm going to look for gold nuggets In the darkness And literally going into Your radiation treatments

52:51You're like in the basement And the door is massive And the machines are massive And it felt like going into this You know scary cave But it's like You know it was metaphorical for me Obviously But how do you find Nuggets of hope And it really taught me How to take one moment at a time And to find joy In the darkness Little glimmers And one glimmer gets you To the next glimmer To the next glimmer And that was kind of Building me back As I was building my health back And then after I got really

53:21On the other side of things I was like you know People were starting to gather again I was like I want to put a show together For the people who were helping me In my journey Whether it was bringing meals Or encouraging And so it really just came As a celebration Like hey let's all get together And I had a show Off the song Syncopated Gold Which I think we featured On this show before But that's what kickstarted All these shows That I'm doing now You know And I don't highlight cancer As part of my performance All the time But it is a story That has informed what I do

53:54You know again And that resilience And I think it's a lesson That we all need Because we all go through Dark periods It doesn't matter If it's cancer or not We have scary moments in life And so how do we How do we find joy? How do we find resilience In those moments? That's just a part of who I am now And it just kind of Shows through my artistry And here comes the sun Again perfect example of that Because sometimes we go through A long cold lonely winter That's right And sometimes we can't get The gold nuggets But then a chicken McNugget

54:25Comes along And we're happy Yeah You know Honestly Food can sometimes Really cheer you up Sometimes you just need Like a chocolate chip cookie To get you through the day

Playing Waves and Tour Dates

54:36There you go

Playing Waves and Tour Dates

54:37Well let's hear the second song It's called Waves It's from your Waves album Which was recorded I understand like All at once? Well that song I've originally recorded Before 2020 That was what my album Was releasing And that I was supposed to tour Right before I got hit on the head And I had to cancel everything But I recorded that With Jason Richman Was producer And so it's really A compilation of Again You had mentioned before Like my father

55:07Is a pastor And so my early Musical experience And memories Was helping him Put the services Together musically And he used to He used to love Picking songs in minor keys Like the entire service You know All the songs Were in a minor key And for those Who aren't familiar With what that means It's just It's more melancholic Yeah And sad And wistful A major key Makes songs happier So people would Come to me

55:37And be like Carrie Can you please Talk to your father Like about these Song choices A lot of horror movies And sad movies The soundtracks In minor keys Yes So honestly You know Even back then As a teenager It was informing What I do now Which was taking These songs And going How can I Kind of turn it On its head A little bit And so I took Two old hymns That tended to be A little more melancholic And I turned it Into blues And then I just Put my own little Stamp right in front Of it To kind of Introduce it

56:08And it turned Into this medley Which is this song Waves Which again I also feature In my Southern Shade Of Blues show Here's Carrie With Waves Sometimes Life Takes you down And sorrow Regrets And shame Seem to drown Any hope Any light Any comfort That used to be around

56:40But my child Just because You can't stay Past the storm Raging round You or me Doesn't mean We are alone So listen Carefully Carefully Give to the wind

57:16Give to the wind Your fears Hope and be Unlessing God God Hears your sights And comes Your tears He shall Lift up Your head Through waves And clouds And storms He gently Clears the way Wait for His time So shout So shall the night Soon

57:46And enjoy His day Still heavy Is your heart Still see Your spirits Down Cast off The weight Let fear Depart And every Care Be gone He everywhere Has sway And all Fates Of His Mind Is Every

58:17Act For Blessing Is His path From the Sully Light Oh The deep Dear Beloved Jesus Vast Unending Boundless Spirit Rolling As The mighty Ocean In its Furness Over Me Underneath Me All Around Me Is

58:47The goodness Of Thy Love Leading Homeward Leading Homeward To Thy Glorious Rest Above Waves Of Mercy Say Mm guitar solo

59:33As far above your blood His counsel shall appear Only He the work has wrought That caused your needless fear Leave to His sovereign will To choose and to command With wonder filled You then shall own

1:00:04How wise, how strong His hand Oh, the deep deep Love of Jesus Vast unending boundless free Oh, and that's the mighty ocean In the fullness of the may Underneath me, all around me Is the goodness of that love

1:00:35Leading onward, leading homeward To the glorious rest above Waves of mercy Waves of grace I'm gonna dive right in To His ways Carrie, you know, I liked your songs when you were here before, but these two are really hitting me. Thank you.

1:01:11Oh, I love that. Thank you. Thank you. Carrie, do you know Michelle Schacht? No. The singer? Oh, she's a blues singer. Your style on that song really reminds me of her. Awesome. I'm gonna look her up. Michelle Schacht. Schacht. Okay. Now, where can people see you this fall performing? I should have a show coming up at the Garner Performing Arts Center in November. I'll be back at Southern Pines at the Sunrise Theater sometime this fall. Again, dates are still being kind of worked out. I perform regularly at the O. Henry Jazz Series in Greensboro.

1:01:42Okay. And again, I'm lining up shows right now. Carrie Theater, I perform at a lot. Kane Center, I've been performing at out in Cornelius. So, yeah, if you go to my website, it'll have all that. What's the website? It is carriemarshall.net, C-A-R-R-I-E. Carrie, thanks for coming back. Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening. U.S. Modernist Radio is underwritten by the Brent R. Harris Charitable Trust, restorer of Richard Neutra's Kauffman Desert House in Palm Springs and six other houses in California.

1:02:15By the Ife Jones Conservancy, preserving the legacy of modernist architecture in Northwest Arkansas, ifejonesconservancy.org. And by Diane Bald and the Budman family, restoring significant architecture in Toronto, Los Angeles, Malibu, and Palm Springs. Visit usmodernist.org's massive archives to listen to past shows, discover documentation of 30,000 significant modernist houses, and access six million pages of classic 20th century architecture magazines. U.S. Modernist Radio is produced by Soundtracks Recording Studios in Raleigh, North Carolina.

1:02:49Our theme song was performed by George Smart and Robinson Earle with guest research by Bobby Morris. Got a guest to suggest for our show? Writer at bobby at usmodernist.org. U.S. Modernist Radio is a production of Modernist Archive Incorporated, a nonprofit educational archive for the documentation, preservation, and promotion of modernist residential design. I'm Tom Gilead, George, and I'll be back soon with another We Love Weird Houses edition of U.S. Modernist Radio. Amen, brother.