Episode 325 - Pepper Martin, Who Technically Still Hasn’t Actually Retired

0:00hello everybody welcome to another episode two strike noise your mailman's mother's uncle's favorite baseball history podcast and they swear by it and i don't blame them my name is jeff i'm one half of the show joining me as always from the pacific northwest today in the mackie sasser studio it is mark a johnston mark i'll throw it to you but can you throw it back to me

0:36that's uh that's what we do here at the mackie sasser studio we we don't throw it back to you just roll it back or throw it to second and have the second baseman throw it to me yeah there's other ways around it this is true yes that didn't they do that gag in like major league three or something i think i think the catcher a lot about those yeah three remember i think the catcher they gave him like a playboy and he was a like a country rube and he'd never seen playboy before

1:07but that distracted him enough that he could throw back to the pitcher i think that was one of the brilliant plot points of major league three back to the minors or something like that yes i i think i saw it once yeah i i think i've seen it once too but somehow i remember that i don't i assume i remember that i don't know if that's correct or not it's something like that mark let's go ahead and get right into it here let's stretch out it's been a week since we've done this don't

1:37want to injure ourselves now we do need to start off with a little bit of a downer don't like to do that very often but do want to talk about this dwayne ward closer for the blue jays in the late 80s early 90s two-time world series champ with the blue jays he passed away due to natural causes at age 62 he was in toronto when this happened he and some other teammates from those back-to-back world series 92 93 teams were having a reunion they were unveiling a statue commemorating the world series teams

2:10he made it in town for those festivities but unfortunately passed away while he was there in 19 he had a 2.13 era led the american league with 45 saves that is a total by the way that remains the blue jay's single season record now still nice yes ward appeared in 19 postseason games he went three and oh with a 1.13 era and two saves in eight career world series appearances so just he was nails during that run and you know he wasn't a dominant closer for that long of a time

2:46but for the time that he was he was dominant oh yeah i i remember having him in like a rotisserie league or something and he put up great numbers that's for sure i i would assume he and eckersley and maybe thigpen were the premier closers of the american league at that point yeah it sounds right r.i.p. to duane ward that's very unfortunate i i don't know if he even got to go to the ceremony i don't know exactly when he passed away but that's rough so let's try and let's try and not be is down for the

3:20rest of this podcast let's talk about this it was a it was a show or two ago mark that i brought up pitchers stealing bases and how that's not gonna probably be much of a thing ever again right much to our chagrin but then i saw a rangers atlanta game that was played recently a blowout big blow atlanta up 13 to 1 late and as happens in those type of games the team that is losing puts a position player in to save the bullpen so the position player is pitching but this is the thing atlanta who was ahead

3:55had lost their dh earlier when subs were made and so in the bottom of the eighth inning the pitcher spot is due up now atlanta had other guys on the bench they still had some guys available but pitcher victor maduros he they were going to send him out he pitched the eighth they wanted him to finish the game in the ninth so they sent him up to the plate with runners on second and third base never been to the plate in the big leagues i mean i doubt the pitchers even take bp anymore i don't think yeah

4:29i don't think there's that pitchers group anymore the remember it used to just be starters yes they would have their group they usually be first and yeah that didn't happen but up steps victor maduros in the bottom of the eighth two outs runners on second and third on the bump for the rangers kyle higashioka a catcher who as far as i can tell has never pitched in the big leagues yeah this was his first appearance on the mound so here we go what's gonna happen come on maduros oh you're gonna

5:00score the pitcher steps up there that's definitely his first hit a two out two rbi single past the third baseman to pile it on for atlanta on texas congratulations to victor and he's probably gonna have a career batting average of 1 000 yeah with two ribs well pretty impressive that was the that was the first time somebody has done that since garrett clevenger got a hit off josh reddick in 2021 that was the game the dodgers were up 20 22 to 1 wow yeah maduros not only got a hit he

5:34drove in two runs his first career hit and first rbis so congratulations that ball will probably be on his mantle a good story to tell for the rest of his life better hitter than babe ruth better hitter yeah mark is a mets fan i must live in the past these days for any sort of happiness i look back fondly on the summer of 2024 when the mets were riding the wave of the hit song omg recorded by none other than their own utility infielder jose iglesias otherwise known as canalita on the music

6:10scene we played it here during the podcast i remember it was a huge oh yeah huge thing that summer from for the mets that and grimace we were the he even performed this song live after a game at city field fortunately they had won it that would have been kind of a bummer otherwise but he has not been playing this year so jose has moved on on to broadway that is he will make his debut in the buena vista social club musical which is named for the band the buena vista social club and is

6:43inspired by the cuban band and their landmark is what i am told 1997 album i am not i'm not familiar i i've heard that name before the buena vista social club but i am not familiar with their music their catalog if you will i thought there was some movie about some kind of social club maybe it was the sisterhood of the traveling pants i don't know something like wow okay wasn't there wasn't there a some kind of i think there was some kind of social club movie at some point that i didn't see i think it was probably a would be categorized as a chick flick sounds familiar you're not thinking of the

7:18timex social club that did the song rumors right no okay there's a throwback yeah i didn't get that one but i'll assume that it was good i i think it was but then again i'm gonna wait for i'm gonna put a little pause here wait for the laughter to die down no but what's gonna happen is some of these people are gonna go find that song oh no there'll be people that know it i just don't know it yeah no i mean because if i heard that i'd be like oh i gotta go listen to that song now see so hopefully i well maybe

7:48we can bump up the timex social club's earnings on spotify yeah there's been like three extra downloads of this song this this month what's going on exactly well congratulations to jose iglesias i'd love it more if he was starring in the music man but this is still cool oh sure yeah i wonder who would play marion who could play marion i mean it's kind of hard to cast a marion from professional baseball yeah we're not gonna we're not gonna we're not gonna get into that here

8:19we're just gonna talk about baseball baseball history all right uh let's wrap it up kind of early uh we're just taking some early bp because i've got a story this week that's gonna take a little bit longer to tell but i'm very excited about it so let's let the grounds crew come out and do their thing while we get changed and get ready to go here and mark i'm gonna do the main story this week and we're gonna we're gonna start well we always start in the past it's a baseball history podcast let's uh let's go ahead and set the time machine to havana cuba august 26 1949 a class b minor league

8:57game is happening there we're talking about the florida international league hey it's an it's an actual international league that's actually international outside of the u.s umpire w e williams who you can tell by the fact that his name is w e takes his job very seriously he calls a runner for havana safe on a close play the miami second baseman not having it he argues he gets tossed but he's not going anywhere he refuses to leave the field chief umpire clem camilla rules the game to

9:32be a forfeit because of the sit-in protest that is now happening at second base the manager for the miami squad calmly slowly no doubt walks over to discuss further with camilla about his ruling in a calm fashion they shake hands probably part ways with a mutual understanding just kidding we would never talk about that the miami manager ends up with both of his hands around camilla's throat police have to rush police have to rush onto the field and pull him off he's fined a hundred dollars

10:07and suspended for the rest of the regular season all five games of it this wasn't the first time this particular manager displayed his version of his hands-on managerial style i did the air quotes there for hands-on earlier in 1945 while managing the pacific coast league san diego padres pitcher valley eaves he had a drinking problem padres owner bill star did not like that and he asked the manager to help keep him sober so at one time the manager caught eaves drunk he punched him knocked him out cold

10:39it worked that's one way to take care of business he took care of business it worked too eaves went on to win 21 games that season for the padres wow we don't promote violence but sometimes it works then in 1951 still managing that miami team that miami sun socks is what they were called i guess i should have mentioned that still in the florida international league he goes into the stands during a game in lakeland and punches a fan why no idea couldn't find any information about it not sure

11:10if it was like a a ty cob type situation or not but he was fined by the league then fined again by lakeland municipal court whatever happened to double indemnity yeah i don't know that's um he's like the league got me you can't get me too well who was this angry man angry angry man it was none other than two-time world series champion four-time all-star and a man whose combined batting average across two world series is still to this day a major league record it was the wild horse of the

11:46osage himself emphasis on the wild part and i hope i said osage right and it's not like osage because we'll hear about it either way i'm sure this man was pepper martin not to be confused with george pappard aka hannibal from the a team he did other work as well but we all know the a team was the pinnacle nor is it pepper jack from it's always sunny in philadelphia it is johnny leonard roosevelt martin how many kids were named after the roosevelts we i feel like we've had a couple

12:19recently that have had roosevelt in their middle name somewhere in their name yeah it's generally not a first name though because i remember last time this came up and i mentioned that i was related to ulysses s grant yes so it has happened i'm not just imagining things well johnny leonard roosevelt martin was born february 29th 1904 in temple oklahoma he was the youngest of seven kids on a cotton farm the farm though failed during a drought and the family picked up and moved to the big city

12:50oklahoma city that is when pepper was six and look if you're expecting a wild origin story here like a farm accident or a childhood just like busting with foreshadowing like we usually do yeah which one is it i'm i'm sorry to disappoint you but believe it or not pepper martin had a completely normal childhood in oklahoma no accidents no incidents mark the closest thing i found that he was he was mark the closest thing i found to any sort of origin story is that he was born on leap day

13:24oh that's interesting but uh not exactly a farm accident or anything no but he obviously ages at a different rate than everybody else right he only has a birthday every four years or something it's like half of a dog so he doesn't age either that's incredible benjamin button type situation we've got going for pepper martin here so as a kid he worked odd jobs to save up to be able to buy his first baseball glove he played sandlot ball for whatever team would have him a hardware store team a jewelry

13:54store team a presbyterian church team despite being baptist and at one point he played for the national guard team at least for a little bit because just like the presbyterian team pepper never actually signed up for the national guard which is kind of a big thing to be able to play for the national guard team 1924 pepper scores a tryout with the independent class d greenville hunters of the east texas league who do in fact sign him he plays 27 games he pitched and played center field he hit 274 and went one and

14:26one is a pitcher the next season still with greenville he raises his average to 340 and that started to get people's attention that's also where he actually gets the nickname pepper team owner blake harper started calling him pepper after watching him run around the bases and listening to his constant chatter makes sense pepper isn't chatter is what he's talking about here cardinals chief scout charlie barrett had been tracking him during his time at greenville and he made a recommendation to branch ricky should sign this guy cardinals did purchase his contract from greenville for 500 and pepper is

15:03officially cardinals property pepper got a cup of coffee in the bigs with the cards in 1928 but it wasn't until night that the cardinals center fielder taylor doth it not to be confused with bobson dugnut like i initially did ah yes this is taylor doth it went into a slump martin got the call and he never gave the job back so as a 27 year old rookie pepper is part of a cardinals team that win the pennant by 13 games they won 101 games that season martin himself puts up a 300 average 75 ribs 68 runs he steals 16 bases

15:42a great rookie season on a really good st louis team then however the world series happens the philadelphia athletics the two-time defending champs connie mac's last great team loaded with guys who are going to end up in cooperstown mickey cochran jimmy fox al simmons lefty grove and we've got a weight hoit sighting mark oh right on nice if you want to know more about weight just you know go back a couple

16:13of episodes there you go the cardinals had lost to this same team the year before in six games so there's a little bit of trepidation but now they've got this this rookie pepper that's something to look forward to the series goes seven games nobody ever leading by more than one game at any point it's really close and this rookie pepper martin he ties the world series record for hits with 12 he hit 500 in those seven games he had one homer five rbi five stolen bases if they had had a world

16:43series nvp award back then he'd probably be driving home with a brand new chevrolet after that yeah that's that's a good series right there wow very good yes clutch naturally the appropriate response to being the most famous man in baseball overnight is to sign on for a vaudeville tour of course 1500 a week which is that's 33 000 a week today not bad i'm up for that yeah shoot he lasted four weeks before quitting and he said quote i ain't no actor i'm a ball player end quote and i'm wondering if

17:19this is where john crock got that i ain't no athlete i'm a ball player line from might have tweaked it a little bit at least he didn't slide on stage and break his arm or leg or anything like that was this possibly the same vaudeville tour that weight hoyt was on hey it's possible hoyt did it after a world series though right so it might have been the year before when they beat the cardinals and now the cardinals beat the a's this year so maybe maybe it was a year off mark i found a great

17:50picture of pepper from this vaudeville tour with the three stooges who also happen to be touring at the same time very nice check that out look at curly's eyes i can't move this apparently what the heck there might have been some drugs going on before this picture is all i'm saying on the three stooges side that's that's what i'm they definitely got uh yeah there's a look in their eyes yeah pepper's been known to pull pranks but he's coming off his rookie season so maybe he'd been playing it safe that

18:23first year in the big leagues but also maybe this visit with the stooges unlocked his inhibitions to be himself more moving forward as we will see the fame came with a catch though it always does before the next season started martin summed up what it's like being a public hero in one sentence he said quote one day they holler for you to take your cap off the next day they yell at you to take off your uniform end quote it sounds a little bit more like sexual harassment to me but i guess 1931 is going to 1931 yeah which was a good thing for pepper to know because the next season was the definition of

19:00the sophomore slump next season martin only played in 85 games he hit 238 he only drives in 34 runs both career lows the cardinals fall to 72 and 80 to a sixth place finish and to be fair he missed a lot of time due to injuries he dislocated his shoulder in april then he broke a finger in july sliding into home plate now there are two things of note from this season first in september once it's cleared the pennants out of reach manager for the cardinals gabby street who is taking a break from

19:32trying to catch things from high distances moves martin from centerfield to third base this ends up being his primary position for the next three seasons secondly a pitcher named j hannah dean joins the team but everyone calls him dizzy and this is the start of martin having a regular part a regular partner for stunts and pranks and tomfoolery because when people call you dizzy chances are you're probably not exactly straight laced the next season pepper put up a solid bounce back season he hit 316 led the

20:06league in runs scored with 122 and stolen bases with 26 he also led the league in errors at third base with 25 i i seem to have a thing recently about players who are just trashed defensively earlier in their career i don't know why i think that happens when you move your center fielder to third base yeah they basically told pepper to stop balls at third base just throw your body at it knock it down pick up the ball and throw it that because he could not field at third base he did have some highlights

20:39though in may 5th he hit for the cycle against the phillies the cardinals ended up finishing fifth though with 82 and 71 record also of note for this year leo derosher joins the team and he and pepper actually got along really well pepper the lip and dizzy old timey baseball nicknames are the best they really are when was the last time we had a pepper lip or dizzy or was this it maybe i don't know boy yeah i don't i don't know of any peppers uh that's for sure yeah yeah i think you're i think

21:13those may that may have been the last well at some point during the season martin and dean which sounds like a canadian mixed pairs figure skating team or a member of the rat pack either or but martin and dean pull a prank on a women's society luncheon at the bellevue stratford hotel in philadelphia where the team was staying martin bought some smoke bombs from a smoke bomb store i guess then he gets some fireman's uniforms that he buys from wannamaker's department store for himself and

21:44a couple of others department stores apparently sold fireman's uniforms then i guess just to anybody right next to the smoke bomb department i'm guessing at this point stores in 1933 seemed like they sold more things than you could buy on amazon today but it wouldn't be a good story if we didn't have this they set these smoke bombs off right as the luncheon gets out causing chaos the women scared from the smoke here come our guys they show up in their fireman gear pretending to enforce fire regulations

22:15moving women between tables upsetting the hotel manager and staff no doubt probably was not appreciated what kind of a prank is that yeah it's good incite panic yeah that's hilarious it's essentially physically shouting fire in a theater it really is what it was yes derosher of course loved to talk it's shocking i know he said this of pepper's play at third base specifically about the fact pepper did not wear a cup he said quote god must look out for drunks and third basemen with no protective gear

22:47because pepper got hit everywhere except for the one place that would have mattered end quote and especially think about it if he if they're telling him just to throw his body in front of the ball at third base yeah not wearing a cup is a choice not a good choice but it's a choice it was never an option for me i there was no question really i do not wear a cup ever oh my gosh i would wear it to school if i had a game the next day yeah i can't wear them when i'm playing it's just too uncomfortable for me

23:17we won't get into the ifs whys and hows of that let's just move on 1934 is the year of the gas house gang there are more origin stories for the nickname the gas house gang than there are marvel movies generally though the one thought to be true comes from the aforementioned leo derosher derosher and teammates were talking trash about the american league saying whoever won the american league pennant wouldn't even be allowed in the national league they think we're just a bunch of

23:48gas housers is what leo said now this is likely a reference to the gas house district which is a was i'm assuming it's not still a rough foul smelling part of manhattan's lower east side a foul smelling area of new york yeah i mean yeah doesn't really narrow it down but i love new york by the way but i mean let's be honest there's a certain smell here in oakland there's a certain smell pot everywhere you go you can get a contact high in new york like seattle there's a certain

24:21smell it's not pot it's something else uh the cardinals are seven games behind the giants on september 6th this is 1934 remember and they come all the way back to win the pennant by two games martin only played in 110 games this season again he had an injury his average dip to 289 but he still led the national league in steals with 23 and he still makes the all-star team so to the world series the cardinals go again this time it's detroit pepper doesn't match his 1931 numbers it would be

24:55pretty hard to but it's not far off he had 11 hits a 355 average four rbi and eight runs scored i feel like he'd be going home with another chevrolet if the nvc was still was being offered here combine this with his 1931 world series numbers together and he has an average of 418 as i mentioned earlier still a major league record for anyone with 60 plus world series plate appearances another good

25:27note from this season pepper was a good base dealer as is evidenced by his leading the league in stolen bases several times he was one of the few players though at this point that would slide head first but his teammates saw his success and tried to copy him this led to derosher to dub martin frankie frisch and ernie or sati as the diving seals love to have had somebody call ricky that at some point or tim rains do you think pepper might have been trying to protect something in his back pocket smoke bombs perhaps i think we just got to the bottom of that pepper was busy that off season

26:05no vaudeville this time just hijinks after the season pepper went on a barn storming tour against none other than the kansas city monarchs this is something we talked about with bob kendrick last week dizzy dean put together a barn storming tour and he brought martin along plus other big leaguers paul and a couple of others from other teams promoter jl wilkinson owner of the monarchs who again we talked about just last week set up a series of games through nebraska and kansas satchel page

26:39bullet joe rogan and buck o'neill were among those that played for kansas city in those games after the barn storming pepper needed some minor arm surgery now i'm sorry mark but in 1934 i doubt any sort of surgery was minor yeah i'm kind of with you on that one the i doubt the textbooks were as uh visually helpful as they are now yeah yeah i don't think you have chat gpt helping you out perform you know a triple bypass i don't know if that was a thing then probably not but regardless

27:13martin got bored in his hospital bed while recovering so he hired a cowboy musical group to come in and play in his hospital room now i know they had radios then that seems like it would have been a better solution to me but this was kind of the modern day version of watching videos on your phone in a public place with the volume all the way up and no headphones yes other patients were disturbed enough that the hospital had to move pepper to an isolated wing to keep the peace

27:45maybe he just wanted his own room i don't know 1935 pepper is selected to his third all-star game he hits 299 he scores 121 runs another solid year before the next season began though branch rickey brings martin into his office wants to have a serious talk with him he thinks pepper could still be better now ricky's concern is that pepper is too busy with other activities during the offseason now what could branch rickey have been worried about this much what could what could pepper martin

28:19have been doing during the offseason that worried branch rickey so much he had to bring him in before the season and have a talk with him well beyond the average ball player stuff you know hunting and fishing hunting and fishing yes pepper had a couple of other things on the docket he was racing midget cars he played basketball for the barnstorming house of david basketball team nice briefly served as a place kicker for the nfl's brooklyn dodgers and was also the vice president

28:53and general manager of the oklahoma city warriors ice hockey team now i'm not gonna lie that sounds like a pretty full docket i think wow branch rickey might have been on to something yeah he played basketball he played football and he essentially ran a hockey team that is that's that's a bow nose commercial right there yeah it'll keep you busy for sure yeah well he heeded rickey's advice though and in what turned out to be his last full season complete season as a major leaguer

29:25he drove in a career high 76 rbi he batted 309 and for the second year in a row he scored 121 runs now remember that smoke bomb prank that he played earlier in his career how could i forget yes we were on about it well 1936 he returns to the scene of the crime the team is again staying at the same bellevue stratford hotel in philadelphia and martin finds a stash of painter's equipment ladders buckets overalls that kind of stuff sitting unused and probably more importantly unsupervised

29:59in a service area well pepper rounds up ripper collins dizzy dean and heinie schuble they put these overalls on haul all the gear into the busy hotel dining room and start painting the walls and ceilings in front of the guests as they try to eat their meal oh my can you imagine painting the painting the ceiling like you're well people are eating below you that cracks me up i think pepper's idea of pulling a joke is a little different than mine i'm just saying they're not small pranks they're not

30:33isolated to one or two people no no they are not no pepper earns his fourth and final all-star selection in 1937 but in august a serious knee injury cuts the season short he finishes with just 98 games the injury marks a real turning point from 1937 through 1940 he never really played much he never played more than 91 games again with his playing time reduced by injury martin though found other ways to be productive like forming the mississippi mudcats band with teammates lon warnick bill mcgee

31:10lefty wyland and our old buddy frenchie bortiguari frenchie bortiguari's got to be in his mustache got to be in here now warnicky played the guitar mcgee played the violin lefty wyland played the jug because you got to have a jug player and frenchie frenchie was very versatile he played two different instruments the washboard and the auto horns now the washboard that's that thing right that you like it's like

31:42corrugated and you like rub a spoon on it or something and it's just like that's what it is right that's what exactly what it is yes auto horns does that mean like horns from a car or is it like a wahoo kind of thing or what what's auto horns auto horns yeah i don't i don't know well whatever it is they played actual music like good enough that people actually wanted to hear them perform their big hit was called they buried my sweetie under the old pine tree now no word on how their sweetie

32:16passed away before being buried under said old pine tree i'm not sure if it was a goodbye earl or a stand type of situation or not hmm haven't tracked down the song yet i'll get on that so martin retires as a player after the 1940 season branch ricky gets him a job as a manager for the sacramento solons that's my dad's favorite team growing up in sacramento the cardinals pacific coast league team that's who the solons were he goes on to manage in the minors for 13 seasons across multiple teams ranging from

32:51class b all the way up to triple a including that miami team that i mentioned at the beginning of the story pepper's managerial career is paused to play 40 games in 1944 in the outfield for the cardinals who like everybody had trouble fielding a team with the war going on so pepper suited up once again for those 40 games the cardinals went on to win the world series that season but pepper was not on the playoff roster despite his complete owning of october twice prior in his career they missed a chance

33:27yeah well i mean they still won so right it could have been better no wait no it couldn't maybe they could have swept i don't know so we're back to 1950 now where we started this story pepper is back in the manager's chair for miami after serving his suspension he continues to manage in the minors until finally leaving baseball in 1961 he takes a job as the athletic director for the oklahoma state penitentiary where he coaches the prison's baseball team do they allow stolen bases in prison baseball

33:58there you go dad joke march 5th 1965 at the age of 61 in mcallister oklahoma pepper passed away from a heart attack he was survived by his longtime wife ruby and three daughters despite being a teammate of frankie frisch for eight seasons pepper is not in the major league baseball hall of fame maybe he played a prank on frankie at some point or frankie wanted to be in the band and he wouldn't let him and that's why frankie didn't get him in i don't know but in 2017 pepper was inducted into the

34:30cardinals hall of fame i wanted to finish up with a story about pepper that is told in just about every story that you will find about him but each time the details are a little bit different the dates are different so i have no way of knowing if it's real and if it is when it exactly happened i think it's real just when it took place and all the details i'm not exactly sure about but i've said it before that's what make baseball stories so good it's the gray is the good stuff more than the black and white

35:01some of the times but before pepper made the big leagues he was sent a check to buy a train to buy a train ticket so he could get to wherever he needed to be for spring training pepper was young at this point he hadn't made the big leagues and that check was probably a good chunk of money for somebody like pepper at that point probably more than he had to his name so he took that check and he cashed it i don't know what he did with it if he stuck it in his pocket gave it to his family went to the smoke bomb store i don't know what he did with it but he still had to get to spring training somehow

35:35so he took a bat tied a handkerchief at the end of it with his glove in it and it all his other worldly possessions and he hopped a freight train hobo style to spring training now i'm speculating about the bat and handkerchief thing but i'm feeling pretty confident that i nailed it still it makes sense it makes sense a couple of days after riding a freight train he arrives at his destination dirty smelly he walks into the team hotel and introduces himself to the hotel clerk his outfielder john pepper martin that's awesome there you go pepper martin ladies and

36:12gentlemen don't know how he again i you know he's not a hall of famer but he was a teammate of frankie frisch's for a long time it doesn't make sense to me yeah but uh definitely an individual yeah he was known to keep it loose in the clubhouse yes you need those guys yes unless they're throwing smoke bombs and dressing up as firemen that's a little weird yeah well he did do that so yeah uh but it was a good story i was i was excited to talk about him once uh once i kind of read up on him a little

36:43bit i thought he fit right in yes for sure all right so that's pepper martin let's go ahead producer mitch has been let back into the studio he's on probation but uh he's he's back in the studio he is doing everything by the book right now he is holding up a handwritten note that says wph which mark that tells me that it is time to head into the final segment of the show it is time for wax pack heroes here we go how everybody and welcome to today's edition of wax pack heroes you know

37:36wax pack heroes backwards is so a cat sow hey the rules were simple jeff and mark are here from two strike noise long time friends of mine jeff and mark they're gonna play an old-fashioned game of war but instead of using playing cards they're gonna be using budweiser's hey what okay no they're gonna be using baseball cards that makes much more sense they'll be using war of the year of the cards and

38:13whoever has the highest war that round wins cobs win cobs win cobs win just like that but there are extra extra factors arnie's telling me that can add or subtract from their war totals 1980s baseball aesthetics there you go extra points hall of famer bud lover extra points and if they have a pop culture

38:43reference like they were in a budweiser commercial extra points but whoa nelly if they appeared in seinfeld the simpsons or sabrina the tage witch they get a whole extra point or if nolan ryan or ricky henderson show up the round is over and we drink budweiser's hey but they can also lose points if they show up

39:15in the mitchell report or are on the do not talk about list you know who i think should be on that list and that guy's name is is too difficult they can also get more points if they lead the league in any good categories that season if they want any warrants and if they have a costacos brother poster

39:47oh boy i could go for some tacos i love tacos but if they top the leaderboard in something bad like airs or spilling budweiser's they're gonna get a minus point so no hey let's wrap this up and go get some tacos and sub budweiser now let me hear you uh one uh two uh three wax pack heroes all right you have

40:25now heard the rules you should now be familiar on how we play wax pack heroes let's look at the scoreboard mark i have been on a bit of a heater here i'm currently leading 15 to 11 yes padding that that lead a little bit we had a big team meeting though oh so are you in danger because they can't fire the players right i yes i am big time all right well let's head into it and see what kind of trouble we can get into all right we were sent some 1972 tops cards by listener john k a while ago we're working

40:59our way through those every other week so we are going to be playing with those mark you have the cards so i'm gonna i'm gonna let me determine that i want to go second and i want the packs on the left because that's been working for me now i have to move them across the other way now listen i am very straight down the middle when i've got the cards as is evidenced by the three times you've won in the one time i have yeah all right man uh all right so we're starting you say i'm sorry you're going first

41:32right no you're going first i'm going first okay well i have let me see here an outfielder for the chicago cubs johnny callison big smile wearing the number six on him no facial hair yeah johnny callison wow he debuted in 1958 as a 19 year old for the chicago white sox overall though he played 16 years phillies for 10 the cubs the yankees and the white sox for two apiece in 1972 his first year with the yankees he hit 258 299 on base a 393 slug for a 108 ops plus he had nine home

42:11runs 34 ribs three stolen bases and a positive 0.9 war okay so you're at least on the positive side which does not happen a lot recently no it's been a little rough like i said the team meeting i'm thinking it's gonna help let's see what what has happened oh he passed away in 2006 at the age of 67 went to high school in bakersfield california he's not from there but he went to high school there at least not a lot of interesting transactions for johnny who's johnny they said and he smiled in his

42:45special way a little debarge that was uh i had debarge on music bingo when i hosted this week that must be where it came from awesome hit for the cycle in 1963 against the bucks nice looks like he was a clutch hitter mikey he was good to come up at the end of the game was uh also a player coach for the philadelphia athletics and played in the american professional slow pitch league which i think we talked about a week or two ago we got somebody that did that oh yeah but i don't see anything

43:16else here he's in a couple hall of fames but i don't see anything here that's going to help you out any more than uh than that 0.9 yeah well i'll take i take a positive at any time yeah definitely all right who's my guy your guy is a shortstop for the oakland athletics mr bird campanaris i thought that might be the case all right campy three time world series winner back to back to back world series

43:47winner overall 19 years in the big leagues 13 with your oakland athletics three for texas three for california and one with the yankees at the end of his career 1972 i mean we don't even need to do this do we don't think so all-star year led the league in plate appearances at bats and stolen bases as well as sacrifice hits let's see he was an all-star got nvp votes 240 average 278 you know for someone with that speed he did not get on base very often no i guess not but you know what that means

44:21that he stole 52 bases he only walked 32 times he had a 278 on base percentage when he got on base he was probably stealing second and maybe even third no power 325 slug for a 84 ops plus eight home runs 32 ribs like i said 52 stolen bases and at 5.4 war i'm not even going to add all that stuff up because it's already just so far above 0.9 it doesn't matter and i was all happy with johnny callison

44:54well so that'll learn me yeah interesting little note on the back of the card uh burt played all nine positions in one game yep september 9th 1965 yep he's one of those guys on the grid you can use for a low score for pitched or you know played third base him and steve lyons and you know some of those kind of guys are good low scores when you got to do that i mean campy was a great player really great player this is a very long page to go through also played in the senior professional baseball league for the gold coast suns let's see did some coaching for the cebu lions won the

45:31japanese series in both 87 and 88 while he was there i don't see any kind of pop culture it doesn't matter though that's a big win for me all right i'm up one to nothing right one zero yep your next player no it's your next player my next player is a pitcher for the texas rangers boz dickman i mean sorry i got that wrong dick bosman i was already typing it in sorry dick bosman was a pitching coach for a long time wasn't he i believe so yeah i don't know if he could pitch though cousin of duane

46:04kuyper i did not know that hmm okay let's see dick bosman pitched for 11 years in the big leagues eight with texas three with cleveland two for the oakland athletics a little bit too late for those rings 1972 he was with texas he went eight and ten with a 3.63 era 173 in a third innings pitched 183 hits struck out 105 for an 83 era plus and a minus 0.3 war anything on that card gonna help you out

46:39no it's a like a stream close-up and he's very clean shaven hmm well that's not good for you let's see here was traded by the indians with jim perry to the a's for blue mo blue moon odom of interest um he is the only pitcher in major league history to miss a perfect game due to his own fielding air wow started the final game for the expansion washington senators and the first game for the

47:11texas rangers once they moved as well interesting stuff he did throw a no hitter though he did he no hit the a's actually before he was traded there i don't see anything here about oh there's pitching coach yeah he was pitching coach for the white socks the orioles the rangers and the rays so quite a bit of extracurricular work someone who was uh giving themselves to the game yep lifer yep you betcha all right well that is a minus 0.3 for you that's better than a minus 0.4 okay

47:45yeah all right moving on you sir have a pitcher for the san francisco giants don carithers how do you spell that c-a-r-r-i-t-h-e-r-s there he is all right oh look at this he's from linwood washington or no i'm sorry linwood california never mind straight out of linwood weird al i thought i lived in linwood in in seattle i thought that was going to be something but no carithers yeah it's an interesting last name overall eight years in the big leagues giants for

48:19the expos for three minnesota for his final year 1972 he went four and eight with the giants with a 5.8 era pitched 90 innings gave up 108 hits wow 58 earned runs for a 60 era plus you said well we both said a minus 0.3 is not good and you said well it's better than a minus 0.4 how about a minus two wow that's rough that is rough anything on the card at least going to help me out no nothing i don't think i don't think don's gonna help me here yeah don's posing and

48:55like he's in like a wind up with his arms above his head but it's posed oh let's see anything i'm sure he's got a lot of pop culture oh right um oh yikes he was involved in a car accident in 1977 with a teammate who broke both his legs and never pitched again oh geez uh nothing else there though really let's see he gave up in 1972 he gave up willie may's 647th career home run hmm i guess that's something to hang your hat on yeah yeah all right that win goes to you we're tied

49:32at one apiece your next card all right dodgers outfielder and i don't know how to pronounce the name larry i got uh the last name is h-i-s-l-e heisel heisel heisel h-i-s-s silent what what is it h-i-s-h-i-s-l-e larry oh heisel hisle for shizzle heisel yep nailed it let's see larry played for 14 years in the big leagues five years for minnesota five years for milwaukee and then four years for the philadelphia

50:06philletics no it's just the phillies good or bad news for you 1972 he was either injured or just did not play in the big leagues okay well i'm not getting a negative well it looks like oh it looks like he spent the entire year in albacucu wow is there anything on the card that's going to help you it looks like you always had a mustache no he's of course clean shaven in this picture oh that's good for me um let's see anything interesting transaction wise not really member

50:39of two world series winning teams for the toronto blue jays has to be as a coach i bet he was he was probably there during the the ceremony as a hitting coach for the blue jays 92 through 95 so there it would be toronto player john olerud sings his praises as does the inseminator paul molitor and some guy that got banned from his own team's hall of fame uh now looks like he works for the brewers so another lifer but it's just a straight zero for you yep well we may have uh we may have a

51:17tie here because you sir have drawn a manager's card white socks manager chuck tanner well nope he has got pop culture already i know he is in a commercial for pac-man in the atari oh wow yeah he comes in he busts dale barra who's not he wants dale barra to pinch hit but dale barra where is he i can't find him he's back in the clubhouse playing uh pac-man on the new atari 5600 or whatever that was with some other teammates and they all scatter when chuck tanner comes in but not dale he's got

51:54to finish that game so i'm feeling good mark of course of course chuck tanner won a world series with the 79 pirates kind of a famous team you know also won the pennant obviously that year obviously chuck managed quite a bit he also had a had a playing career but managed quite a bit i think that's probably where most people know him from get this 2007 the rotary club of pittsburgh began the chuck tanner baseball manager of the year award very nice it only lasted three years it

52:28appears oh well kind of ran out of steam open a restaurant in the hometown of newcastle pennsylvania which has since been sold but remains under the name of chuck tanner's restaurant wow that was an original name yeah well you gotta tell the people big salad that's where elaine had to go she had to go to chuck tanner's restaurant to get the big salad tanner died in 2011 at the age of 82 but that commercial will get me a win and i am up two to one all right mark your

52:59next card all right i got detroit tigers pitcher ron paranoski another long time pitching coach yes interestingly they didn't they don't have uh the saves stat on the card he's from northridge where i lived for a while ron played for 13 years dodgers for eight minnesota for four detroit for two and the california angels in his final year of 1973 1972 that was his lone year in dodger blue well no part of the year he was traded 1972 he split time between detroit and the

53:34dodgers overall he went two and one with a 5.35 era 35 and a third innings pitch 42 hits allowed 15 strikeouts for a 62 era plus and unfortunately for you mark a minus 0.7 war yeah another rough one for me that's that's that's wonderful thank you those who can't do teach remember yeah that's so that's not true at all i don't believe by the way have you ever looked up the rules for wax packs heroes on ai

54:06no i have not because i wrote them so i don't need them but really i'm just saying yeah all right well i'll try that afterwards let's see here 1967 traded by the dodgers with johnny rosenborough to the twins for mudcat grant and zolio for sales also traded for don zimmer at one point so he's got that going for him i don't know that there's going to be a whole lot of pop culture for him and does he really not have a wikipedia page oh he has to he played forever he's got a he's got a

54:42a saber article let's see pernowski wanted to he went to a yankees game and was inspired by watching yankee pitcher joe page to become a relief pitcher how many how many kids say i want to become a relief pitcher when i grow up yeah yeah had a good career he did not the gear that you have him in 72 that's the that's at the end of his career though he's in the national polish american hall of fame and oh here you go appeared in an episode of the television series branded with former baseball

55:14player and series star chuck connors wow all right well so you're gonna get pop culture for that so instead of a minus 0.7 it's only a minus 0.2 appeared in a show with the riflemen passed away in 2020 unfortunately following complications from illness i'm gonna guess covid did not help there this is this is very interesting to look at his numbers because we looked earlier and i mean i looked at the back of the card and i didn't keep track of saves it's not on there but his career he

55:45had 178 saves led the league twice yeah yeah he was a very good he wanted to become a relief pitcher and he became a very good one he sure did career 279 era very nice yeah so it certainly does not fit into the those who can't teach i said it was bs and i just proved it right there just hold on one second 1963 16 and 3 he pitched in 69 as a as a reliever he did not start a single game he's 16 and

56:163 with 21 saves the vulture is what he is i don't know that is incredible wow 60 i tell you what if you had him in rotisserie that year you won look at that as a middle reliever he came in fourth in the nvp valedict crazy that's crazy i love it i mean he had 21 saves 21 saves on top of the 16 wins you can't get them both so there right there are 37 games which is more than half of the games he appeared

56:48in where he got a decision a positive decision that's crazy that's crazy talk that's awesome if you look at his pictures he looks exactly like mike socia he's got the same kind of rounded face he's he looks very much like mike socia but unlike mike socia who's got automatic simpsons cred you have got a minus 0.2 for your card which card am i going to get that's going to win this for me you sir have landed a tops 1971 all-star rookie reds pitcher ross grimsley oh i don't know that

57:26he's going to help me here but he had a good career ross grimsley scuzz or crazy eyes i mean we've done a whole episode on him overall 11 years in the big leagues five with baltimore three with cincinnati and montreal one with cleveland 1972 his second full year in the big leagues 14 and 8 record with a 3.05 era i think i like where this is headed 192 and two-thirds innings pitched 194 hits 79 strikeouts a 106 era plus and a 1.1 war does he get pop culture points for being

58:05the subject of a two strike noise podcast at one point you know i don't think we can do that because we haven't kept track of our own stories well i know i know what they are you i know have a little bit more maybe it's because i edit them and put the notes together and all that kind of stuff but scuzz was a first round draft pick by the red 17th overall in the 1969 draft i think it's very meta if we give points pop culture points for having been featured on two strike noise i don't need it here

58:39but i'm gonna say moving forward yes well let's put it before the committee yes i vote yes okay it passes we'll talk to the rest of them later accused by billy martin of throwing a spitball by using vaseline i think that's uh that's probably it for for him ross grimsley's father ross grimsley pitched for the white socks in 1951 now is that ross grimsley uh the character that martin short used to do on saturday night live believe i believe

59:12that was ed grimly but you're very close there you go ed grimly very close very just like george popard i was very close pepper martin that's right all right well good news for me is ross grimsley is gonna put me over the top and mark i'm putting the pedal to the floor here at the end of the season that'll give me the win i am now up 16 to 11 loving it we're gonna need a hot streak man oh yeah you are i only need four more wins well you need nine i can go 500 the rest of the way and win

59:45this bad boy i don't want to that would be a little close for my liking but still i could i wouldn't mind i'm wondering uh listeners if you're still listening at this point i know some of you as soon as we announce the the winner you're gone but do you root for one of us like do i have a fan is is there is there a listener that roots for me to win or are listeners rooting for mark to win or are you just here hoping that we don't get injured and have fun that's a really good question because you know what if the people if people will contact us and say well we want mark to win

1:00:19then the pressure's on yeah well let's do this let's we want to know how many fan we both have let us know tell us tell us if you root for one of us in particular yes we need we need to know this i think our wives are going to vote and they're not going to vote the way we want no but how would they know they don't listen to the show so how are they going to know they're going to vote third party all right well mitch is losing his mind in the in the production studio i can see it he's tearing out that hair that he paid so much for so we're going to just move on that'll do it for

1:00:53this segment of wax pack zeros and also do it for our episode but if you want more of us don't worry we're all over you can find us on the socials at two strike noise that is at tw strike noise all of the links will be down in the show notes also a reminder that i stream monday wednesday friday at nine o'clock west coast time for about an hour sometimes a little bit longer doing some baseball dailies those are up on our youtube channel as well if you can't catch them live you can watch the vaud apparently people do so that's cool we also have an email address mark wants to tell you

1:01:27about yeah you can write to us and you don't even have to say anything special just hi how's it going we're rooting for you mark you can write to us don't put words in their mouth strike noise at gmail.com all right all right that'll do it for this episode it was so much fun we'll probably do it again why not all right yeah at least four more so i can win then maybe we'll hang it up maybe that'll be it don't scare people come on yeah well i'm selling access to this information early since it's

1:01:57now apparently cool to do i'm selling access so if people know that it's our last show ever then it'll drive up the price of something i don't know anyway that's that's gonna do it for this episode we'll see you on the next one on two strike noise thank you god bless you have a great day we'll see you on the next one so so

1:02:33so so you