Keith Nunnally on the Vintage House Show October 2017 w/hosts Kirk Townsend and Kevin McFall

Introduction to Vintage House Show

0:00You're tuned into the Vintage House Show, home to the original stories of the history of house music as told by the legends, pioneers and icons, hosted by Kevin Mega McFall, Lori Branch and Lauren Lowry.

0:17Welcome to this special episode of the Vintage House Show podcast. Today, we honor the memory of Keith Nunnally, who transitioned September 5th, 2025.

Keith Nunnally's Background

0:31Keith Nunnally is an amazing house music pioneer who, luckily for us, came on to the show in October of 2017. This is that show with our hosts, Kevin Mega McFall and Kirkland Townsend. Please enjoy and remember Keith Nunnally. Mr. Nunnally, good to see you, man. Good to see you as well. You're looking well. Looking very well and prosperous.

1:02Svelte. Is that what it is? Yes. So, why don't you tell, by the way, you can join us right here at 89.3 FM if you're in the area. If not, you can pick us up at wnur.org or streetbeat.org, which is their webpage. Also, we're going to be going to Facebook Live at the end of this program at 11 o'clock. We're going to go forward on Facebook Live, so you can sign in on either Kevin McFall's page or I believe it'll be on the Vintage House page as well.

1:41So, with that being said, we'll go live at 10.15.

Keith Nunnally's Start in Music

1:47Okay, that's good. So, give us a few minutes here and while we do that, Keith, why don't you just tell the radio audience how and when you got your start? I don't believe that one. We're good? All right. So, Keith, why don't you fill the radio audience in on how you got your start, when, where, why, how? Well, I, um, actually, you know, it's, it's, it's strange that we're all sitting, I was talking to Kevin back when we were out in the hallway and how we all started so young.

Technical Issues

2:28Can you all hear me? Yeah, yeah. Can you hear me? You can't hear in those headphones? Um, you know, coming up, um, as, as a young man, I was always in bands. Um, I think I started my first band back when I was about in sixth grade. Actually, uh, with, um, Victor Romeo. Well, well, actually, Victor Romeo goes by the name of, uh, Paris, what is it? Paris Breitlich? No, not Paris Breitlich. Uh, Victor, uh, Victor's gonna kill me if he ever hears this.

3:00Uh, but, but back in the day, Victor and I went to the same grade school and, um, he was a guitar player. I was always, of course, a vocalist, um, and we started our first band. So, it kind of started there for me because I started singing at probably about the age of five. And so, all through grade school, all through high school, I was in multiple, uh, bands and always participating in some of your local talent shows where I ultimately, uh, kind of acquired a reputation as a singer.

3:34And the strange thing was, I used to sing a lot of falsetto. So, all the pretty stuff, I would do all the pretty songs, you know, and, and hit the high notes. And I didn't really start singing my baritone, actually, until I got into college and realized I had a baritone. I was going to say, listening to this track, you're nowhere near falsetto. So, but I, I was doing all the Philip Bailey notes way back. That could still hit some of them. Um. So, was that your influence? Uh, yeah. Philip Bailey? Oh, yeah. Earth, Wind & Fire, Philip Bailey.

4:04Later on, it turned out to be Luther Vandross because I just loved Luther Vandross' voice and he had Donny Hathaway, those guys who had that rich, that rich sound, you know. So, what about the hitman from Motown, Eddie Kendricks? Oh, of course. Yeah, I mean, well, that's the whole falsetto thing. Yeah. You know, anyone who was doing falsetto back then is, is, I tried to emulate them, um, and ultimately kind of created my own style. What about Elder Barge? I used to sing to Elder Barge. Actually, I used to do all switch stuff.

4:36Anything switch, you know, I would find myself singing. Right, right. So, these were, you know, R&B, sort of mainstream artists that you fashioned yourself after.

Introduction to House Music

4:47How did House become the genre of choice, if you will? You know, it's strange. When we were coming up, um, actually started out being called Punk Out. Right. If y'all remember. Absolutely. It was a very unique scene. Punk Out, Punk Out, Punk Out. You know, the music was unique. The music was different. Um, I remember listening to the D-52s. The music that I never thought that I would listen to, like Rock Lobster, The Knack, The Knack, Tainted Love.

5:17You know, it was a lot of great songs. And so, I think what happened, you had all these great DJs, and DJing was really starting to become popular. You guys had really made it popular back when we were in high school, going to Mendo, of course. All the high schools were doing parties, Quigley South, one to two parties a year. And so, when you look at Frankie Knuckles, oftentimes, a lot of people say Frankie Knuckles was the birth of house music. And I can't take anything away from that, because Frankie Knuckles gave us a new sound.

5:49He brought a sound to Chicago. Pull that mic up to you just a little bit more. Just pull it forward. He brought a sound to Chicago. There you go. That we weren't accustomed to. You know, that whole South Soul sound music that we immediately gravitated to. So, what we started doing, DJs started making tracks. And they started emulating that music to do it their own way. Myself, like Byron Stingley and Paris Breitledge, Kevin, what was his name?

6:23Kevin Hedge. He used to go to Mendo. He was with Club Nouveau. Oh. Kevin Irvin. Kevin Irvin. Kevin Irvin. Yeah. Daryl Pandy. We all came up in advance. Matter of fact, we used to compete against each other in a lot of talent shows, oftentimes, at Mendo. And that's how we all started acquiring our name. Matter of fact. And Daryl used to emcee him. He sure did. Daryl Pandy did. He sure did. Bless his heart. And I tell you, I remember when I first met Byron Stingley, I was in a band, I think, back then,

6:54we were called Clear Vision, if I'm not mistaken. And we were in a citywide band competition that was going to each park district. Well, the band I was with, we kept winning. Every park district we went to. And it culminated at the Trillo Band Shelter. And so the winner would get this scholarship and all this other stuff. And so I, along with Des Seven, who Byron Stingley was in, we were all competing against each other. The Hope Brothers, the Hope Brothers and a lot of other bands. And we actually won Best Band.

7:25And so that's when Byron and I first met. And I never knew that we would cross the same paths later on in this whole thing that we all call house music. And by the way, I'd be remiss as a publicist if I didn't just give a shout out to the track that's been playing as we intro'd the show. Seasons of Love. Right. Giant Records. A Warner Brothers imprint. That was the first release of Keith Nunley as a solo artist on a Warner Brothers major label imprint.

7:57Yeah.

Music is the Key

7:58So to give a quick overview of the whole house music thing and how I got into it. Of course I knew, we all knew each other. We were all on the same circuit. Sure. Steve Hurley, actually Farley happened to call me first and said, Hey man, I want you to go in the studio and I'm, you know, we're going to, I want you to sing on some tracks, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, okay. At the time I was working part-time at a store in Evergreen Plaza, in Evergreen Park called The Lark.

8:28Right. I was going to say, go ahead and shout out to Lark. Evergreen Plaza. Southside. Everblack. Everblack. Everblack. Yeah. And so he called me, but he never, you know, committed to what he wanted to do. So about a week later, Hurley called me, said, hey man, I got this song that I wrote, did the music, and I've been playing this track at all these clubs, and people are kind of going crazy about it. And they said, we need to put some lyrics to this song and have someone sing it. He said, well, who should I get to sing?

8:59He said, and everyone kept saying, you know, get this guy, keep numbing, keep numbing, keep numbing. So he called me, I was like, hey, Steve, what's going on? Hey, man, I would like you to come down, man, and sing on the track. I got a great track. So he kind of played it for me over the phone. I said, all right. He said, when you get off work, I'm going to come get you. We're going to go down to track studio. Well, I went down there, and I'll never forget. I tell this story all the time. Because I was known for singing the falsetto, Steve gave me these words that he had written out quick and had me singing, I am a DJ man, and music is what's going on to ease of mind.

9:36I was like, I'm not feeling that, man. He was like, no, no, man, that's you. I said, no, man, let me try it in my natural register. And so Farley was like, leave it alone, man, let him sing, let him sing. And that's when I went, I am a DJ man, and music is my plan. To ease your mind and set you free. And they were like, whoa. Oh, you know, I was kind of shocked, too. See, this is the beauty of live radio. You can't get this nowhere else, man.

10:06We're capturing that. You know, we got to get more singers in here. I know, exactly. That could be the whole other thing. And get interviewed and entertained at the same time. And it was funny, because I'll never forget Farley, and this is how this whole thing called Jack started. Farley literally wrote on a paper bag, in the middle of me singing, music is a key, we're about to kick the song off. And he writes it, and he plants it on the studio window, say this. And those words were, check that body, baby, which is what I thought that whole thing, Jack.

10:44You know, we got to get Farley in here, too. Oh, absolutely. You know, we can't do that in an hour with Farley. Farley will take one breath in an hour. Oh, yeah. That's a great story, though. So he put on a paper bag, put it up on the window of the studio. He said, say this. You sang it. Check that body, baby, which became one of the most instrumental names. Sure, sure. Absolutely. Was that a sample, or how did it eventually get to vinyl?

11:17No, it was live. He sang it. He literally wrote it on a piece of paper and said, say this. And as the track started, I just simply said, check that body, baby, and it worked. And then from there, so goes the story. Music is a key came out. Who knew? I would have never imagined in my wildest dreams, I knew that all my life I was going to make it as a singer. That's all I've ever wanted to do. But at that time, at 21 years of age, literally two, three weeks later, Steve and I were on

11:48the front cover of Dance Music Report. Yeah. DMR. I call it a dynamic duo, you know. Yep. Can you tell us a little bit more about the journey that was Music is the Key? Because clearly that was a precedent-setting record. I mean, your travels to perform that took you where? Well, you know, it was interesting because Music is the Key was the first record that broke house music national and international. And there were some great songs.

12:19You had Waiting on My Angel that was out. You had other records that was out around about the same time. But Music is the Key gave it legitimacy, if you want to say. Because at first, people were like, oh, that technical music. Repetitive dance music. Right. Yeah. Electronic. Music is the Key was the first time that the music industry really looked at it, oh, wait a minute, we may have something here. Because shortly after that, Steve and I were booked to do our first show at Studio 54 in

12:51New York. Wow. You know, and I'll never forget it. When we were preparing for the show, of course, I've been singing all my life. I've been entertaining. Steve kind of had two left feet. You know, just keep it real. Sorry, Steve, but that's the truth. He knows it. You know, and I wonder how he DJs. He lived a sheltered life. That brother, man, because he's crazy on the beat. He busted out when it was time to bust out. My man busted out big time. But the reality was, the way J.M. Silk happened, I was actually going to leave the group because

13:26Music is the Key was Steve's song. And I'll tell you how the rap came apart.

13:32Steve wrote Music is the Key. He did the music along with Peter Black. Peter Black, who's God rest his soul. I remember Peter. They did Music is the Key. And Steve wrote the lyrics. And I sang it. So during the time that we were in the studio singing it, I think it was more like, wow, this is my record and I'm not even on it. So what ended up happening, so goes the story. Before they were about to mix it, he said, no, man, let me take it home. I want to go and do something.

14:02And so he went home and he wrote the rap. Music is the key to set yourself free from violence, drugs, and the creeds of poverty. The key to the lock. The lock is on the door. The door is the knob. This had never turned before. And Steve actually did the rap. So, and it was such an awesome blend to me singing and then him coming in and doing this rap, which propelled that song even further. And, but what happened when we got out on the road, it was kind of unbalanced, just keeping it real. It was Steve's song. I was hired as a vocalist to sing on this song.

14:34Well, there was, there was. Well, what does, what does that mean? You were hired as a vocalist? Well, I was hired to just come in and sing the song. It was Steve's song. Steve was J.M. Silk. But you were in the studio recording this, all right? Yeah, but. You didn't get points? Back then? Come on, man. What was that? DJ International Records. No, no, it wasn't. I was just hired as a vocalist. And then next thing I know, I was sent to New York and I'm performing at Studio 54, putting together this show.

15:05Then after that, Copacabana. And then after that, every club in New York City, we were performing. But what happened, because there was no continuity in regards to the money, I was like, no, man, I'm out of here. I said, I'm going to start my own thing. So I went home and I got with Peter Black and I got with Danny Wilson. And I had a song that I wanted to write called Shadows of Your Love. And which went, your love was something I couldn't understand.

15:36Yeah, everybody always, always took command. You let me stand in the shadows of your love. And I wrote that song and I was going solo. Well, Steve came in and was like, no, no, no, no, man. What are we going to do? I tell you what, we're going to split everything up the middle and we're going to become one group. We will be JM's soap. There you go. So goes the beginning of JM's soap. That's how the internet started. Incredible stories here on Vintage House Radio, only here exclusively.

16:10Glad you're all tuned in. For those of you who haven't yet signed on, we're on Facebook Live. Kevin McFall and Akusa Lowe. Check either page out. He said that wrong, didn't he? The story. You know, I can never say that right. On the radio, either page, tune in. The story continues with my man and I want to say one of my first and certainly best clients as a house music publicist and historian ever,

16:44this man sitting right next to me here, Keith Nunley. That's my road dog, too. Yes, sir. I've known Kirk. We've all known each other a long time and still doing it. That's the beautiful thing about house music and what we do. Exactly. You took the words right out of my mouth. It's a family-centered genre. And with that in mind, I want to bring it back a little bit to Chicago because, you know, certainly music is the key.

Chicago's House Music Scene

17:13It took you across this great land as well as around the world. But there was a lot that happened here in Chicago in terms of recordings, in terms of collaborations, in terms of performances. Can you talk a little bit more about some of those experiences? You know, the thing that was so unique I'll never forget, and this is a story that nobody knows, I was in a band at the time called Showdown, and Danny Wilson, Sweet D, he was a saxophonist in that band. And Richard Patterson, who sang Communicate, what's up, Rich, was also in that band.

17:47And it was another gentleman by Kevin and his brother, God, oh man, he's going to kill me, I forgot his name. Kevin Turner, and I forgot his brother's name. But anyway, we were an awesome band, and I'll never forget, when I sang Music is the Key, but I can't talk, Music is the Key, we were having rehearsal, getting ready for a show that we were going to do. So I brought the tape in, and I played it, said, hey man, check this song out, I just did it. And they all booed it, dogged it, said, that's garbage, that's not real music.

18:21Said that that wasn't real music, and I was like, what, are you kidding me? I said, man, this is going to be the next thing happening. And it was a lot of guys, even Kevin Irvin himself, talked about house music, didn't call it real music, and a lot of people just really put it down. But then later on, some of those very people that put it down were the same people that came knocking at my door. Oh, I'm sure. Asking me to take the DJ International so they can get the opportunity, which is what I did. I took Kevin Irvin down there, introduced him to Rocky Jones, and he ended up doing a great song.

18:54So after 9 or 10, I packed my bags and I go, and ended up with Club New Role. Kevin could sing, but he went to L.A. on us. Yeah, yeah, he did. Yeah, he went, God rest his soul. Yeah. He was super talented. A lot of these cats, man, have gone on, and wow, it's unbelievable. Let me do this real quick. You are listening to Street Beat Show on WNUR 89.3 FM and WNUR.org, Evanston, Chicago. This is a vintage house show interviewing house music pioneers every other Wednesday from 10 p.m. to 11 p.m.

19:30Maybe longer. No, no, maybe to it. We can go a little bit longer on Facebook Live. And if you tune into, or you, I don't know if you can say tune in, but if you go to Kevin McFall's page, that's M-C-F-A-L-L, you can see us live on Facebook. Also, you can listen to us at WNUR.org or Street Beat on the Vintage House show page. And tonight, again, we're talking with Keith Nunnally, one portion of J.M. Silk.

20:04And as you guys know, J.M. Silk was one of the pioneers in house music with their great successes. The story he just told in regards to Music is the Key, which is one of their bigger songs that they produce. And from that, Keith has gone on to major success along with Steve Hurley, Steve Silk Hurley, which you hear all the time, DJing at different places around Chicago and around the country. And producing. And producing, yeah. He produced CeCe Penniston. Yes, he did.

20:34And a lot of different things. Matter of fact, he wrote and produced my first single, which was Seasons of Love on Giant Warner Brothers. Okay. Yeah, so Steve also produced. And that was the song we opened the show with, right? That's correct. That's a great song. I love Seasons of Love. Yeah. Yeah. So, Keith, I think we kind of left off about you coming back here to Chicago. And what transpired then, I know, about the early 90s, house music was starting to take a little bit of a dive.

21:09And I can definitely say it was due to a lot of infighting and a lot of selfishness and a lot of petty foolishness that the guys, all the guys around Chicago were doing. And a lot of other people came on board and started taking house music to a different level and taking it in other parts of the world. Well, you know, I think one of the greatest problems that added to the demise of house music, first of all, it was really radio.

21:40Radio did it. And then because of the influx of infighting, you got to understand, you know, we were kids. A lot of house music artists were immature. For me, and I can only speak for myself in saying this, I remember the most important thing for me was to sing. All I wanted to do was sing. You know, who knew that we would be out there making the type of money that we were making, doing clubs and venues that were worldwide known?

22:17You know, Studio 54, you know, that was a club that was known all over the world. Copacabana, I mean, the Red Parrot, the Tunnel, Paradise Garage, the Palladium, Silver Shadows, Bentleys, you know, then you jump. Red Parrot. Red Parrot. I mean, we did, it wasn't a Latin Quarter. Club Sensations. I mean, you name it. Club 88. Yeah. The Zanzibon. The Shelter. This man, we did, there wasn't a club that J.M. Silk did not perform on the East Coast.

22:50We literally hit, and then we'd hit them multiple times. I remember coming and meeting you and Steve when I lived in Boston. There was a club row right outside of Fenway Park called Lansdowne Street. Yes. Lansdowne Street was full of clubs, and you and Steve performed one night. And you came out of the club, and you were surprised to see me standing in Boston, Massachusetts.

23:22It was Nine Lansdowne was the club. Right, right. But what's an important point to take away from where you were going is that this thing is called the music business. Right. And that component was something that I think all of us, right, were upstarts in. We were really, you know, there wasn't a technology startup accelerator that you can go and learn how to create a business. You just immersed yourself into it.

23:55That's right. And it's something that you knew nothing about. And most of us, because we're creative, it was more about the creative part and hearing your stuff on the radio that we were really caught up in, not necessarily the business. And because we never learned the business, a lot of artists, including myself, you know, did not get the financial reward that we should have reaped based on what we gave. And so what's interesting, gentlemen, this is a cycle that has repeated itself, particularly here in Chicago, right?

24:31Absolutely correct. It's a record roll, South Michigan Avenue, where some of the Chicago clubs were record labels. How do we stop the cycle? I think certainly with the advent of the internet and other capabilities. You know what's interesting? I'll never forget how when house music blew up, every record label probably in the world started coming to Chicago. They started seeing it as a viable money-making entity.

25:05Well, to cut you off, they started coming back to Chicago. Yes, back to Chicago. Because remember, back in the 60s, the 50s, the 60s, and the 70s, every major label had an office here in Chicago. That's correct. And most of them extended from Roosevelt Road to 22nd Street on Michigan Avenue. Record Row, also known as Motor Road today. From Brunswick to CBS to Chess to, you know, one of the Beatles were actually signed to a small Chicago label, VJ Records.

25:41And you know who the vice president of VJ Records was? Who's that? Morgan's mother. Oh, wow. Barbara Proctor. And her husband was the president of VJ Records. And they signed the Beatles. Wow. So there's so much history that goes back beyond that. And I think a lot of it tends to lend itself from ignorance to a great extent. Absolutely. You know, when you don't know your history, you're bound to repeat it. And a lot of these guys get into it, and they think that they start when they start.

26:11And they don't go back and look at the history and research the history of the people that paved the ways for them to come in and do what they're doing. The pioneers. And they'll repeat the same mistakes. The same mistakes. So I think that's first and foremost. You got to learn your history. And you can avoid a lot of different things that a lot of other people did. But it was a little slightly different for me because, you know, one of you guys' colleagues, Jesse Saunders, you know, Jesse was in the same position.

26:41But I was the vice president of Jesse Records. And I was all about business. You know, I was a businessman already, believe it or not. I had started managing a McDonald's when I was 14 years old. I always did everything that was business related. Even when I was doing the parties at Mendo, it was strictly business between me and the Augustinians. You did say to Lauren when she kicked off the show, right, you were the elder statesman in the room.

27:11You always shot. Well, you know, at the end of the day, you know, if you take care of the business, the rest of it will take care of you. So, you know, and I remember a lot of times we would get goofy and, you know, and try to do things. But the reality of it is, it is a business. And it's a very cutthroat business. And if you don't learn it quick and learn it right, you will get cut. So, you know. It's a lot different today than it was back then. Because right now, it's almost so difficult to even sell records.

27:45I mean, you used to sell records out the back of your trunk and you can make money. You know what I mean? But by today's standard, what is it? They say some 60,000 records a week or something like that. It's someone's trying to put it on. Oh, just being loaded up on it. Rotation or screen. You know, so the pay structure is not the same. Points is not the same. Now, artists are assigned to record labels for like seven to ten years because where they make their money is really in concert.

28:17It's not necessarily record sales unless they're just huge, huge. Well, they claim that the industry has come back now. So, the industry had dropped at least 40%, 40% to 50% in revenue strictly because of stealing and downloading and people not paying for downloading. But they say it's coming back. But I don't know. I've looked at some of the numbers and I don't see it. The only way it's going to come back is if they revert back to vinyl.

28:47Well, that's what they're trying to do. They need to come back to vinyl. Well, they can't copy vinyl. And the inability to manufacture vinyl at the levels that were available to consumers in the past isn't there. A lot of that equipment is antiquated and destroyed at this point. And then from a green standpoint, right, vinyl doesn't necessarily agree with the environment. But that's an interesting point. I want to take us back to some of the vinyl that you recorded, particularly interested in what might have been one of your favorite songs that you've performed and recorded.

29:32Honestly, there's several. I mean, because obviously I've got a new single out. But there was a song when I was on Giant Warner Brothers that was my second, due to be my second release. Well, it did come out. It was called Freedom. Freedom. And if you ever listen to how I write, I write songs that are kind of spiritually and moving to try to move and motivate a crowd. If you listen to Shadows of Your Love, that's how the background.

30:03You let me stand in, stand in, you let me stand in. Shadows of your love. Seasons of Love, although Steve wrote that, it was still kind of in the same. Right, it has a crescendo to it, an emotional crescendo. Which I wrote the lyrics to. Steve did the music. Let the music take. Just let the music take. Let the music take control.

30:28But Freedom, when I was on Giant Warner Brothers, was a song where I was, it was way ahead of its time. Because when you look at what's going on today, freedom is apropos for what's existing in the world. Today's movement. Listen to the lyrics. The lyric is, We got to understand that life brings so many changes. And we got to make a stand. Together we can find us a better way.

30:59See children are crying. And the tears are falling all over the world. There's nothing for you and me and they'll never set us free. So tear down the walls and break the change. Everybody shout freedom. Freedom, freedom, freedom. You know, and that song. We should send that to Donald Trump.

31:23That song. We don't say his name on the show. Which is perfect for what's happening in our society today. Absolutely. And one of the best indicators of a true classic song, right, is that it's timeless in nature. Yes. And so you hit the nail on the head with picking one that really resonates. When we did our album on RCA, when Steve and I got signed to RCA, which was one of the greatest things that ever happened to me. Because I remember telling my mother, God rest my mom's soul.

31:56Mom, I miss you. I love you. One day I'm going to make it. I'm going to be on the front cover record. One day I'm going to make it. I'm going to make it as an artist. And that day, at 21 years of age, when RCA came to Chicago to sign us, was one of the most gratifying moments in my life. Because to actually see yourself and commit yourself to something from five years old to 21, and then you actually see it pay off. See it pay off. Absolutely. It was a beautiful feeling. And your mother got to see it. Yes, she did.

32:26She got to experience it. And I'm sure she was quite proud of her sonny boy. Yeah. I want to take a minute just to shout out a few folks tuning in on Facebook Live. Bridget Chapman, Pam Greer. Wait a minute, Pam Greer? Pam Greer's watching? Wait a minute, wait a minute. Man, DJ Gary Wallace. Gary. Jackmaster. Billy Hilbring. Billy, Billy. What's up, Monarch? My colleague in the house and editorial, Kathy Cheney.

32:56What a house head. Oh, where's Kathy at? She's on Facebook Live. Our former president.

33:03She was president of the Chicago chapter of the National Association of Black Journalists. Yes. Yes. What up, Kath? Let's fast forward a little bit.

New Music Release

33:16Tell us about the new release that you have out. Well, you know, I tell you, it was an interesting thing. I had been performing pretty much a lot of my older stuff for so long. And I ended up getting, about a year ago, 2016, with a DJ producer by the name of Georgie Porgy. And Georgie Porgy and I immediately clicked. And so I'm like, look, man, I'm a songwriter. He said, Keith, I got some music.

33:47I said, well, you know, give me the music. So I took it home. I listened to it. Called him back about an hour later. I said, I got a song. And that song was called Searching Without the G. And it was an awesome song. And the way he did the music and the production was to really kind of be fit that whole European market, that whole EDM market. And so it was really written and produced to kind of go in there. Because that seems like where house music had kind of made its shift.

34:19And that's where a lot of money. In the world. Not necessarily here. Not here. In the world. It was making a lot of money. And so it was apropos for that time. But from a soulful nature, you know, I'm a soulful singer. It wasn't until this year, actually, I got with two DJs. And Georgie Portia, hey, fantastic song, Searching. We did the Dizzle. But when I got with Tommy Davis and DJ Spin out of Baltimore, you know, these are two brothers that are just awesome, fantastic producers.

34:58They called me and they actually said, hey, man, we've been wanting to do a song on you for a long time. I'm like, get out of here. They said, yeah, can we, you know, work something out? Let's do something together. I said, yeah. And I said, well, we're going to send you some tracks. So he sent me a couple of tracks. Nah, I wasn't really feeling them. I said, man, I got to sing from my soul, from the bosom, man. You know, I need something that I can really feel. So he sent me this track. And I took it. I said, hold on. Let me listen to this one. Ten minutes later, I came back. I said, I got a song.

35:28He was like, are you kidding me? I was like, no. What's the name of it? I said, So Satisfied. So, so satisfied. And the song, a lot of people think I'm talking to a woman. But I'm really talking to the Lord. You know. That spiritual. Yes. That spiritual essence of where you come from. Exactly. And the song is phenomenal. It's very soulful. It really is. Yeah. It's a great song. We're going to try to get it on the air. And there's so many mixes on it. So many people have done so many mixes.

36:00And like DJ Pope just did his rendition, did his mix. Which is, have you heard it? I haven't heard that, but I know the Baltimore sound. Right. Another one. It's awesome. It's on a whole other stratosphere. And just like Searchin', I think there were probably eight to ten mixes on Searchin'. Yeah. You know, so many DJs wanted to be a part of Searchin' just as So Satisfied. And that's an honor within itself.

36:30Yes, it is. When a DJ wants to edit or remix or, you know, do a different mix on your, you know, on your song. That's an honor for most artists, you know. Yeah. Craig Loftus and Joe Smoove just did a mix on it. And it's phenomenal, you know. So, I'm always plugging away, man. Singing is my life. Let me shout out to Craig real quick because I saw on Facebook he's in the hospital or something. I did, I saw that too. Yeah, get well soon, boy. Absolutely. Speedy recovery, Mr. Loftus.

37:01Prayers go out to you, man. Yeah. Again, and I hate to bring up the negative side of it, but, you know, for those listening, you know, there's a plus. There's a pro and a con to everything. So, you know, I actually heard the mix that Georgie did on this song. On Searching. On Searching. Yes. And then I look and see that Georgie's been having a little feud with Maurice, you know, Joshua. And, you know, again, man, you know, like the Baltimore guys reach out to you and, you know, you can pull things together.

37:37Immediately, with no issues. And, you know, and that's not to say the brothers here can't do it. And a lot of times they do do it, but then we always get this backlash. And, you know, I've got to figure out a way. It's egos. Well, of course it's all ego-driven. It's all ego-driven. But there's got to be a way. And I realize as one of the elder statesmen of this genre and having started doing this before a lot of people did, that I have to help bring about a solution with this because we're going to, again, shoot ourselves in the foot.

38:15And, you know, I was talking with the guys here last week, you know, why can't they come from that side of the ocean over here instead of us going over there to make money off something we invented right here? Well, I'm going to tell you, this has been my observation, and this is what I saw happen. In the 80s, when house music first kicked off, you had a DJ and you had an artist. The DJs put the beats together, and they produced the song, and the artist brought the flavor.

38:45They brought the melody. You know, I made a statement once when they did that whole thing on... You're going to Unsung? Unsung. Okay. One of the things I said is that you can't bake an apple pie without the sugar. I bought an ice pack, by the way, just in case you get hot, my man. I'm not going to go there again. All right, all right. But what I'm saying is the DJs are the pie, and the artists are the sugar.

39:16So we add the flavor. So, in other words, house music is a marriage. It's like you build a house with mortar and water. You can't do it without each other. Yeah. And the problem is, when we happened to kick off in the 80s, the artists took off, and we took it global. We were able to perform the songs, sing the songs, do the songs, and a lot of DJs who produced those songs, a lot of them didn't get that opportunity. So now bring it up to the year 2017, 16, 15. Now everything is DJ-driven, and now DJs want to be the forefront, and they'll get an artist and say,

39:53well, I'll tell you what, why don't you come, and I'm your feature. Now you can write the song. David Guetta. What is that? Right. Well, you know, you had a lot of DJs, though, that became the artists. Look at, you know, you can go down the list. Jesse, Farley, Steve Poindexter. We're talking different levels. No, different levels. I mean, Quincy Jones is an artist. You know what I'm saying? Well, you're not equating any of these guys with Quincy Jones, are you?

40:24No, no, what I'm getting at. Just wanted to be sure on that one. You have artists who are actual, absolute vocalists, and then you have DJs who are producers, who produce music, like a Herbie Hancock. He's a heck of a pianist and producer. Yes. But he's not a vocalist. You won't see Herbie Hancock sing. You know what I mean? What I'm getting at is, all of a sudden, it's like, let's push ourselves and push the artists to the side. Well, we really should have been pushing each other.

40:55And what I saw in Chicago was that it became very lopsided. Okay, I see where you're going with this. Okay, I can agree with that. We should have done it together. Had we done it together, we would have achieved far more than where we are today. That's why everybody else is making more money. And it could have been packaged that way. Absolutely. Yeah. And you could have got more money by packaging it. DJ, or like they do now, DJ Khalid or DJ, some of the other EDM DJs and Nate.

41:30Well... Yeah, that was the example I referenced earlier. And he's worked with, you know, numerous performers in the pop genre. But I think we just solved the Chicago House music conundrum here.

Chicago House Music Conundrum

41:45Well, I don't know if we solved it, but... We've got a path forward, my brothers. We got a band-aid. We have a very small band-aid. I tell you, you need some bandages for some of these eagles, you know. Yeah, that's the whole problem. And it's really discouraging because I think, and I mean this from the depths of my heart to all my brothers and sisters out there, I don't care what your ethnicity is, we've got the best and the greatest DJs in the planet, on the planet, right here in Chicago.

42:17Oh, without question. And no doubt about it, we've got some of the best artists, musicians, everything comes from... Everyone is always extracted from here. Sure. And they go elsewhere to become huge. But they start right here. Or people that start somewhere else, they don't hit it until they get here. Let me ask, have you ever, in your journey, you know, gone west, gone east, to try to foster, you know, a greater outcome for your career? Well, yeah, when I was signed the Giant, you know, I...

42:50Oh, you had to go west then. Yeah, I took up my end roads there. I was managed by a gentleman by the name of Happy... David Happy Walters. Happy Walters, yeah. And who's phenomenal today. I mean, he had, back then, what was the group? The Latin hip-hop group. Yeah, what was the name of the group? But we were all... Insane in the membrane. Insane in the membrane. Insane in the brain. Those guys. Missed those. Yeah, but he had a lot of acts. But if you look on some of your movie credits today, you'll see Happy Walters.

43:25And from what I'm told, he's really one of the biggest sports entertainment agents out there. He's doing phenomenal. Really? Unbelievable. But the fact of the matter is, even I had to take that journey. Yes. But my problem was, I got caught up in the politics of music. When I was signed to Giant Warner Brothers, I was signed to what you may consider the alternative department, which is the white department. Sure. Okay, it was a gentleman by the name of Danny Keaton, who was my A&R person.

44:00Rest in peace, Danny Keaton. Yes. Great guy. And my album was just about to drop out. Drop, not drop out. It was about to drop. Coming out. And next thing you know, 30 days before my album was to drop, unfortunately, Danny passed. So, that's your muscle. He was your champion at Warner Brothers. He was my champion. He was the one that was pushing me. And at the time, Cassandra Mills, she was president of Giant Warner Brothers, and she didn't sign me.

44:33So, because I wasn't signed directly through the black department, that was a red flag. So, all of a sudden, my album was stalled. You would think that would be a blessing for you. Irving Azoff, just a point of clarification. Irving Azoff was the president of Giant. She was president of black music. Black music. At Giant Records. Exactly. And so, when that occurred, I mean, I had signed a great publishing deal with EMI April Music.

45:05All I had to do was my album had to come out. Just let it drop. And this would be a different type of conversation. Indeed. We might not have been able to book you tonight. Yeah, we would have. I know where he lives.

45:23Negro, please. But there's a lot of stuff out there, man. And I hate to see so many other places benefit so greatly from something that was created on the south side of Chicago. You know what I'm saying? And you can go to New York. You can go to Europe. And, I mean, man, these disc jockeys are making $40,000, $50,000, $60,000, $70,000. You know, I was told that what's-her-name is making more money DJing than she is getting booked to do concerts.

45:56The one that wears the hat all the time, sings about them, that made the song Tyrone. Oh, Erykah Badu. Erykah Badu makes more money DJing because- You know who else does? Who? Boy George. Yeah. Yeah. Because they're getting booked to do all these DJ gigs. Yeah. And you make it- When they're not touring his culture club, he is DJing all over the world. Wow. And he's playing mostly EDM and, you know, a slightly different style that's coming out of England now.

46:33Yeah, I mean, it's fair to say that the art of DJing has elevated to incredible heights. It's evolved, yes. And, you know, I think part of that is a function of what has happened with the music business as well. But let's talk about just you cited publishing and your EMI April Music deal. Talk about the importance of writing and publishing rights as how important it was to being an artist.

47:07See, the thing about publishing, it is so many different pockets. You know what I mean? And it's difficult to learn it all. Yeah. You know, it's so many ways you can make money. Mechanical rights, streaming rights. Oh, it's unbelievable. Synchronization rights. You know, and so if you don't really sit down and you're not really trained, I'll say the one thing. When I was with Steve Hurley, Frank Rodrigo and Phil Balsano, at least they did attempt to teach us about publishing.

47:43I'll give them that. That's where the true money is, my man. That's right. That's where all the money is in publishing. I mean, you know, come on. You get a song like Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head. It's in print forever from now to eternity. Not just in print forever. It's printed in probably a hundred different languages. I've got some comments on Facebook which suggest otherwise, but continue telling your story, sir.

48:09Suggest otherwise on the basis of what? What, about the whole?

48:15So we take a literal pause here for a moment to read some of the comments from Facebook. But ultimately, we want to ensure that people take away from this conversation not only the importance of, you know, Keith Nunley in the business of house music in particular, but also the business of music, which is why, you know, I ask you to spend a little time talking. So wait a minute, wait a minute. Let's start some stuff here with some of the comments.

48:45Just read them off. Throw them under the bus. Yeah, there was only a one-way street with Frank Rodrigo. No room for really being a business savvy. Well, that's true. You know, I'm not going to knock that because the fact is, like I said, if you really paid attention to my statement, I said they attempted to. Attempted to. Yes, I did hear you. They tried. They gave us a small version of what the whole pie was. I can attest to that. But before that, nobody was getting anything. You were learning it on your own. Absolutely.

49:15You didn't know it, you didn't know it, but it was just so much criminal element in the city of Chicago. Allegedly. I don't know about allegedly. So, we'll use the term allegedly. We can say one name and that'll clear all that up. Just say Larry Sherman. That was a lot of criminal. A lot of criminal. And unfortunately, that damaged the credibility of where house music could have really gone. We don't want to perpetuate those issues is all I'm saying.

49:49Right, right, right. Absolutely. I'm putting it on my diplomatic hat. See, this is why Kevin and I do this. This is the good cop, bad cop version of this. You know, I have absolutely no problem just bad copping, you know, and Kevin's the good cop. So, I mean, me as an artist, I would just love to see DJs and artists come together. It's like, and I know I'm jumping. It's like, let me give you a prime example. I remember when they had that thing down in the cultural center, talking about house music.

50:25The museum, the house exhibit at the cultural center. Right. Yeah. You literally hardly had any artist at all. You cannot talk about house music without talking about the artists. The artists are so instrumental in the creation of house music. How can you just talk about it just from the DJ side? Not making excuses for DJs. Clearly, in producing events like Summer Dance, they had only interfaced with DJs.

50:56And they didn't get a chance, nor did they make the effort to... But you can't use that excuse. No, I'm outlining what I see as one of the shortcomings of that exhibit was they went no further than who they knew from the Summer Dance. Well, I thought they had hired somebody who was virtually giving them a lot of the details and a lot of the information on it. And whoever it was, it was very short-sighted. Absolutely. And, you know, Mendel was never mentioned in that exhibit.

51:28And how can you not mention Mendel? I am. Mendel was one of the premier places that kicked off this whole thing that we do today. And no other place provided a party for 3,000 to 4,000 kids every Saturday night. Absolutely. You know. And we had... You guys came to perform there. I mean, you know, as Jam Silk. I mean, I had everybody come perform there. You know, it was unbelievable. University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Shout out to the Fighting Illini.

51:59Kappa Carnival. Oh, yeah. And SIU. We did Kappa Carnival way back then. Yeah. We've got that on video. Listen, ladies and gentlemen, we're winding down Vintage House Radio on WNUR 89.3 here. But we'd love to continue the conversation with you on Facebook Live. So please be sure to tune in there. For Kirk Townsend, Kevin McFall, and the one, the only, Keith Nunley. Hey, y'all. It's been an incredible evening.

52:30Any last parting thoughts? You know, sometimes it's... The story of house music is so massive. You know, when you only allocate it a small amount of time, you can only get tidbits. Absolutely. It's fragmented. The story is fragmented. Yeah. But we're going to keep going, by the way. So we're not stopping, at least on Facebook Live. So we're good. I can't hear you guys, by the way. But we're going to keep going. But we want to thank the pioneers of house music, Keith Nunley, Kevin McFall, and Kirkland Townsend.

53:03They're going to be here, hopefully, in the next couple of weeks. We're going to sort of discuss a brand extension of Vintage House with these great pioneers. And, hopefully, we'll see you all in a couple of weeks here on the Vintage House show on the Street Beat show on 89.3 FM WNUR.

53:21Hey, Lauren, by the way, can you rewind and play Seasons of Love again to play us out of here? We've got another minute. Okay, there we go. Keith Nunley, thank you, sir. We appreciate it. Love you, man. It's an honor and a pleasure, my brother. Yes, sir. You are true to the game. True to the game. Keith Nunley in the background. Seasons of Love at WNUR. Thank you. Every evening, when I get your home with me, I want you to know what's going on.

53:58I want you to know it's you and I eternally. Every time we embrace, I have to say, I'm gonna love you and I'm gonna love you and I'm gonna love you and I'm gonna love you and I'm gonna love you and I'm gonna love you.

54:28I want you to know it's you and I'm gonna love you and I'm gonna love you and I'm gonna love you and I'm hot and you're good. Until next year, I want you to know what's going on. Bye. chapter 2. Sometimes it rains We're doing all we will We will remain Oh, seasons change But our love stays the same The things are the seasons of love In the autumn when the rains come falling down Even winter time it's so so warm when you're around In the springtime when the rain falls down from up above In the autumn when the rain falls down from up above

55:03So tell me now Is it true? Do you feel the way I do? Sunshine away No, this is me Cause I will be the one for you, baby In the springtime, baby Oh, yeah In the summer Do you feel the way I do?

55:33You feel the way I do it? Oh, oh, oh.

56:05Hello, Chicago. You are listening to Solar in the Mix this Wednesday evening on Jadabiru, and you are 89.3 FM. I'll be in the mix for the next hour, so stay locked.

56:31Thanks for listening to the Vintage House Show podcast. Please subscribe and share, and check us out live, WNUR 89.3 FM, Wednesdays at 10 o'clock.