329. John Rich: Fighting Govt. Land Grabs

Introduction

0:00Hi, everybody. Sheryl Ackeson here. Welcome to another edition of the Sheryl Ackeson podcast.

0:12In today's podcast, an important and interesting follow-on to my reporting on the controversy involving the Tennessee Valley Authority and the participation of country music star John Rich in protecting longtime landowners whose land was threatened by the building of a new giant power plant. Hey, Fidelity, can I get a second opinion on stocks in the Fidelity app? With Fidelity, it's easy to get an outside opinion from independent experts in a single score. And then?

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John Rich Interview

1:33Let's get right to it. Here's John Rich.

1:38John Rich, thank you for joining us. I think people would be interested to know a lot's happened since we did that story with you on the Tennessee Valley Authority trying to take land from some rural Tennessee landowners for a big power plant. Do you want to just sort of summarize that story first before we move ahead? Well, you bet. It's good to be with you again. And you and I are building quite a history right now together with this story and it continues to get bigger. So the TVA is the Tennessee Valley Authority. It's been around since the early 1930s was really put

2:15into motion by FDR. They're the only federally owned power company in the United States. And because of their charter and the way they were set up, they don't operate like every other power company. They take a lot of liberty in, in my opinion, trouncing sections of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, especially when it comes to landowner rights. So in Cheatham County, Tennessee, which is where I live, just outside of Nashville, they had come in and they were going to drop a 900 megawatt methane gas plant

2:51right in the middle of 400 plus houses, a school district and the main water supply and 6,000 acres of farmland. Not the place you'd want to see something like that built. And that led to me basically waging a war against them with my iPhone and a selfie stick and social media is all I was really doing. But the story was so compelling and their actions were so egregious that it really gained the attention of tens of millions of Americans. And it gained your attention as well when we did that big

3:22story. But above and beyond that, it gained the attention of the president. And so the president of the United States and Secretary Rollins at the USDA saw what I was doing and they agreed with it that no, TVA or any entity should be treating American landowners that way. Let's get, let's remind people a little bit of the outrage. One of the things you drew to my attention that they had done was go to the property of an old lady who had dementia, but she'd owned that land for a long time. And when it was

3:54explained to her that they were there to look at confiscating part of her property, she had that incredible line that you ended up turning into a song. Yeah. Yeah. She, she looked into the camera. The neighbor was running an iPhone camera and she said, do you think you own something? You don't own nothing. So she snapped out of that dementia for about 15 seconds and made that statement. And when you look around her, who was standing there, it was, it was the TVA with, it basically looked like a SWAT team. It looked like the ATF. They had tactical gear on, loaded weapons on this lady's property,

4:30demanding access to her property. And that's just not American. I mean, that, that would even be shocking if Xi Jinping did that or Vladimir Putin did that. You would be shocked by it, but happening in America. And I don't think so. And so we were able to defeat them, uh, got them to abandon the project. And not only that, after that happened, uh, the TVA CEO came to see me at my home. So the, the guy that runs the whole thing, which the salary of this guy at that point was about $10 million a

5:04year. If you want to know how ridiculous, uh, the situation with TVA is, this guy's a, a quote, government employee and was making 10 million a year. He came to my house and, and said, what do we have to do to stay out of these situations with you and the president and everybody? I said, well, it's pretty simple, sir. You got to treat people with respect and you have to acknowledge their constitutional rights. Pretty simple. I said, just because you don't have to do that because what the TVA charter says doesn't mean that you shouldn't do that. He's, and he said to

5:41his credit, you know what? I totally agree. We need to change the way we're doing things. He said, what's something I could do to make you believe me that I am serious when I tell you we want to change the way we're doing this. I said, the first thing you could do would be to give Cheatham County their land back. And he said, what do you mean give it back? I said, well, you own it, don't you? He said, yeah, we own the piece we were going to put the plan on. I said, well, give it back. He said, well, we could put it up for auction. I said, that's a good start. Let's start

6:13with that thought process. And so that's how it began. But, but now there are moves being made where instead of putting it up for public auction, I believe this land is going to wind up being used to serve veterans. I believe that that land in particular is a perfect spot for a rehabilitation center for veterans. Fort Campbell is not far away. There are thousands of veterans in middle Tennessee and Kentucky and Northern Alabama. That has not been finalized, but it is something I am working on

6:46and something I'm pushing toward. And Cheryl, this thought process, you know, I'm just a citizen, just to, I mean, I sing country music, but just a regular guy. I don't work for the government or anything like that. But I think that's where the power lies is when a regular person goes, hey, this is not right. And you wage a righteous fight, which is what that was. That was a righteous fight. It's not my land. It's other people's land, but it's a righteous fight. And even the Bible says, love thy neighbor as thyself. It's the second greatest commandment. Well, those are my neighbors

7:17and whether I've met them or not, they're my neighbors. And if I was in that shape, I'd want them to show up for me. So that led to a conversation very recently, like within the last

New Position Offer

7:28month with President Trump. And he says to me, we really could use someone like you to do what you did defending those landowners in Cheatham County all around the United States, John, because this is happening in all 50 states in one form or another. Would you be interested in working in a position like that where you had federal authority, you had access to all the agencies, access to our legal teams, our experts, and really go out there and mount a serious defense on behalf of American

8:01landowners? And I told him 100% I would love to do that. He said, do you want to be paid? I said, absolutely not. He goes, great. That makes it a lot easier. And I said, yes, sir. I do not want to be paid for doing that. But I would love the opportunity. So right now, I'm in the process of the, they call it the onboarding process, where I will hopefully within the next few days to maybe two or three weeks tops, be sworn in and through executive order, have this position. I'll be the head

8:34of the special envoy for American landowners. And I'm really, really looking forward to it. Never been anything like this, as far as I know, right? No, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a new position that's never existed. This will be a citizen, me, that can go out, find these egregious situations where landowners are being infringed upon. Then I can go in and work with USDA, EPA, Secretary of the Interior, HUD, the Energy Department, and then all

9:06the way, of course, to, to the Oval Office, if necessary, to throw up a defense around American landowners. It's like the president said to me on the phone, John, there's no reason why we can't be energy independent and protect our farm and ranch land simultaneously. And I said, you're absolutely correct. And when you look at, for instance, all the data centers that are now being built, well, the president wants to see the data centers built, but he also wants the farm and ranch land to be preserved.

9:38We have to have food security for America. We have to, that, that is a national security issue. We have to be able to grow our own food. So I'm already looking at two or three of those situations and making sure that I haven't thought of that before you said, we've been reporting on the data centers because this is a real conundrum that we need them, but, but there are serious concerns about what they do to the neighborhood and environment. And also I'm so glad you're going to be able to dig into that.

10:08Yeah. And the water supply. So, you know, a lot of these data centers require unbelievable amounts of water to cool them off. And so some of the places that I'm aware of so far that they're going in, you know, they're putting these things on top of aquifers. So under the ground, especially in the heartland, you've got the Ogallala aquifer, you've got aquifers up under Kansas, Nebraska, and this is what farmers use to irrigate all of their, all of their crops that we all eat. And so that's the next

10:39step. It's going to be finding that balance between energy dominance, you know, information dominance, I guess, is what data centers would be while not harming ranch land and farmland. I mean, you can't eat a data center, you know, you have to be able to grow your own food in America. And so this position that I've been given is, listen, it's, I think, critical. And one thing I've

11:09learned, Cheryl, already, which is really interesting, is that a lot of our agencies, they're huge, number one, they're just massive. And it's hard for them to pick up on a situation in Arizona, or one in Colorado, or one in Kansas, or one in Tennessee, because it's such a micro level. However, they're very, very important. And a lot of times, USDA, EPA, HUD, Interior, Energy, they don't necessarily intersect on these types of issues. And so my job will be to point out

11:45the situations, and then make those connections, make those interagency intersections happen, so that then the federal government can come in and protect these landowners, and become energy dominant all at the same time. So it sounds complicated. To me, it's not really that complicated. Because all the parts that you need are laying there, they just have to be put into a certain sequence. I think a lot of people probably understand, it's not about saying nothing can be

12:16built. But with the Cheatham County plant that they were looking at, there was an alternative site that already existed that wouldn't have displaced anybody. And they couldn't explain why they weren't looking at that. They already owned this property. So sometimes it's a matter of not being secretive and using common sense to make the best decisions for the people. Well, it's not that they couldn't explain it. They didn't want to give you the real answer. Because the real answer makes them look terrible. The real answer was, it's cheaper to do it this way

12:47than to go to the other site. It's faster, cheaper, easier on us, not easier on the landowners. And so when you look at a data center, for instance, why are you putting it here instead of way over here out in the middle of nowhere where nobody cares about it? And generally, the answer is going to be one they don't want to give, which is, well, because it's cheaper, faster, and we can make more money if we put it in this location that nobody wants instead of somewhere else. And those answers are not going to fly. I mean, they're going to have to answer that in public and tell everybody

13:21the truth of the matter. And we'll point it out for them. And hopefully, that's enough that the general American public sees their answer and says, that's not an acceptable answer. And the will of the people is respected, and they do move them to places that don't harm ranch and farmland in our country. I truly believe it can be done. This NBA Playoffs with FanDuel. You're not just watching the playoffs. You're a part of them. And we're back. Steve's got the phone. Opens FanDuel. Locks in player points. Quick fingers.

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TVA Salary Issue

14:44Well, there's been another development since you did all that work on the salary issue that you pointed out. Because I think that qualifies whoever heads up the Tennessee Valley Authority as the highest paid federal official in the country. I couldn't find anybody that gets more money than that. I think some people said Fauci was. But I think this tops what Fauci was making. But in any event, President Trump has stepped in on that as well. Do you want to summarize what he's done? Yes, ma'am. So he dropped that salary down to $500,000. So the most anyone can make at TVA now is

15:22$500,000 a year, which is still a really good check for somebody. But it was at the highest point, it was at $10 million. So if you look at $10 million to $500,000, a basic math would tell you that's a 95% decrease in pay. And the CEO that that got that demotion and pay has now resigned. Okay, so he's not there. Yeah, he's out. He's sailing out the door with a retirement of something like $10 million for his time.

15:53Oh, sure. Yeah, of course. Right. And so again, that, well, it goes to the point of it's all about money. At the end of the day, of course, everything's all about money. Unless you're the farmer or the rancher, who it's all about the land. It's all about this is my family's land. This is multi generational land. We don't get rich out here. We're on this land because we love it because we're Americans. And owning land is a basic tenant of being an American. It was one of the original reasons why people left Europe and started headed heading over here and homesteading, because in

16:27their countries, they weren't allowed to own their own farm on their own land. It was it was owned by the monarchy or whatever government they were under. So it's a basic tenant of an American citizen to be able to own, operate and protect their land. You know, on salaries, which I've covered salaries of nonprofits and NGOs and things like that, as they've grown and grown and grown beyond what seems to be reasonable. And there's always this argument that we have to compete with the private sector, who will take these jobs, we have to have the best people. And I think it's pretty clear that

17:00there are plenty of people who are public service minded, who would be just as good, if not better at running a company, plenty qualified people are running an organization that would do it for less. And like you say, it's still a great paycheck, but they don't have to be paid $10 million. They want to do something that, you know, puts this on their resume and contributes to the community or the country. And and they're happy with that salary can be done. You don't have to think you're going to have to pay as much as the highest core private corporation pays. I don't think. I'm sorry, are you trying to describe what a patriot would sound like?

17:33I think that's what you call a patriot, somebody that is willing to, you know, bring their services on behalf of we the people. I mean, you're talking to a guy right now, who when the president said, do you want to be paid for this? I said, absolutely not. No, but it's it is going to require and already is requiring a tremendous amount of my time, energy, focus and wherewithal to take on these big challenges. But I take pride in that. I'm an American. These are my fellow Americans. And

18:08this is something I get to do for this window of time that hopefully is significant for people. You know, success and significance are two different things. Sometimes things that are successful can be significant and sometimes significant things can be successful, but not all the time. And if you focus on doing significant things, to me, there is an inherent success to that. You may not make money off of it, but you get to sit back at the end of the day and go, you know what? We did some great work. We helped a lot of people and I got to serve my country as

18:42a patriotic American. Do you know, did they announce an alternative site for the plant that was going to be in Cheatham County?

18:51There's a site waiting on them right now. They still have not chosen to do that, which begs a lot of questions. How important was that after all? Well, and then I might add that a lot of the issue beyond not using common sense about where to put a site that might interrupt fewer people. There's a lot of secrecy and distrust or mistrust among the community with how the TVA operates. One of the women in our story, one of the landowners said that people were visiting property and denying they were with the TVA or not admitting they were with

19:25the TVA or saying that there were no firm plans when the community would then look and find plans were being filed and that this wasn't true. So a lot of it has to do with transparency and trust, don't you think? It does. And I will say this to give some credit to the TVA, the new team that has now stepped in has been very forthcoming with me. They are making moves to change their protocols. They're actually doing it. I mean, they're not allowing their security guys to go on people's land

20:01anymore. They're doing it like anybody else would do it, which would be to call the farmer and say, sir, we'd like to have you and your wife to lunch. We want to show you just a proposal that's not set in stone. Get your opinion on it. See what you think about it. They're actually doing that now because in Cheatham County, Cheryl, they had over 140 lawsuits all going on at the same time and less than 50% of the people being sued had enough money to even afford their own attorney.

20:32Yeah. And that these are all things I pointed out to the TVA board and to the, to the, the CEO, I said, that is not American. You can't do that. And of course they look at me and the older guys, you know, the, the old crew looked at me like, well, yes, we can. And I looked at him like, well, I mean, you can, but I'm going to blow the story up. I said, I'm going to do so much reputational damage to you guys. That's not even my opinion. It's just fact driven. It's going to really slow

21:04you down with projects in the future. And that's not good. We want to be energy dominant. TVA is very important. You need to be able to build infrastructure, right? The president wants to see that happen, but you have to do it by showing respect to the landowners. And if they don't want it, find another place to put it. And to their credit, I really believe the new TVA board, which has been appointed by president Trump, I believe that's the course that they are currently on. And I hope they follow through on it. That's good to hear. Initially, didn't the president ask if

21:34you were interested in sitting on the TVA board and you didn't think that was the best spot for you? Yes, ma'am. He said, he said, John, I, you know, I appoint the board. I said, yes, sir. He said, I'd like to give you a, one of those nine board seats. And I said, well, sir, I'm, I'm going to have to decline that. And president Trump said, you're telling me no. I said, I'm respectfully declining. Yes, sir. I'm respectfully saying no. And here's why. I said, number one, if I serve with the TVA, I cannot disparage the TVA. And I fully intend on

22:10keeping my right to disparage them intact. If they are doing things they shouldn't be doing to landowners. He goes, well, that's a good point. And I said, and secondarily, sir, I will never wear their ball cap. And then he laughed at that one. He thought that was funny. I said, I'll never wear a TVA ball cap. And I want to remain independent where if they're doing something they shouldn't be doing, I can call it out. And he said, you know what? I respect that. So what do you want to do? I said, man, give me a position where I've got some authority and I can

22:41work with, with the highest agencies in the land to protect landowners. Can you create something for me? I mean, I don't think a job like that exists. He goes, yeah, we'd have, it'd have to be like a special envoy. I said, yeah, like an envoy on behalf of American landowners. He goes, yeah, that's what it could be called. You know what? Let's do that. And so that's the process we're in

Special Envoy Role

23:00right now. I'm hoping that's finalized very soon. Well, we need a catchy name for that new position, like land czar or something like that. What should it be? I don't like czar. Czar sounds too Russian to me. But you know, I don't need a fancy title. It's right now I would just be the head of the special envoy for American landowners. That's fine with me. I look forward. Listen, I'm going to be going to places. I'm going to be flying out and putting my boots on the ground and sitting on porches with people all around the United States

23:35and getting their stories with my iPhone and my selfie stick. Cheryl, I will not be taking big camera crews, just me and a phone, having a real conversation about what's going on here and tell America, you know, why this is why this can't happen. And then I'm going to be posting those on social media. I'll be talking with people like you. I'll be going on the news. And then if that doesn't stop it, then we'll take the next steps, which would be to involve government agencies and secretaries, cabinet members. And if that doesn't stop it, then it'll be courtrooms

24:07and we will fight all the way to the end. Again, American citizens owning land is a basic tenet of what it means to be an American. You paid for that land, you work that land, you operate that land, and guess what? You have the right to defend that land. Well, I'd like to thank you for your service because there's too little of it. I think there are people that are willing to do this, just not many positions to be offered to them that are like something being offered to you. And you're doing that totally for no benefit to yourself.

24:41And I know that's the case. It's not like you have nothing else to do. So I appreciate that. And thank you for letting us know about it. And we're going to catch up with you in the fall for season, what it'll be, season 12 of Full Measure. I hope to catch back up with you. Oh, I can't wait. I can't wait. I look forward to it.

25:00I hope you enjoyed this podcast and that you will share it with your friends, leave us a great review, and subscribe. Check out my other podcast, Full Measure After Hours. To support independent reporting causes, go to CherylAckison.com, click on the store tab for some exciting, original products designed exclusively for independent thinkers like you with proceeds going to independent reporting causes. Do your own research, make up your own mind, think for yourself.