Episode 389: The Conversation presents: The Intrepid Artist, an Advice podcast- Episode 1, with co-host Arleene Correa Valencia

Introduction

0:00This is The Conversation presenting The Intrepid Artist, an artist advice podcast, the inaugural premiere, the pilot episode with guest co-host Arlene Correa-Valencia. Welcome to the show. I'm Michael Shaw. It's been a while. Thank you for your patience.

0:33The conversation in the form of The Intrepid Artist is back after over a month. I just moved. I will tell you more about that in a second. The website for this show is theconversationpod.com where you can see images related to The Intrepid Artist, including the logo for it, as well as Arlene in her studio, as well as some recent works of hers. Some of you may know that I have made reference to this artist advice podcast several times. And initially I did want it to be a solo

1:10new podcast, but it just did not quite align for that to happen. So I decided that I would take the three episodes slash recordings slash guests and put them out here on The Conversation. And the biggest challenge, in case I haven't mentioned this before, and I hope I'm not sounding like a broken record, is to get really good questions. Not only to get questions, which is a barrier in itself, but to get really good ones. The gold standard is a recorded question

1:43in which the question asker identifies their situation, their context, and then that will support why they are asking the question and how myself and the guest co-host answer the question. The more details and the more context that you as a question asker can provide, the more interesting an answer we can give and the more interesting an episode we can make. So just put it out there in case you get inspired by this episode to ask some questions. You can do so anonymously. You can do

2:19so via text or email, or you can use the anonymous Google form on the website to ask your question and there'll be no trace back to you. But the more info that you can give about yourself, you know, you can anonymize it as much as you want. The better for us and the better for an episode it will be. So yeah, I am looking forward to you guys hearing this. I am very curious to hear what you think. And I will also say that if there is a really good question, I will find a really good co-host

2:54to answer the question with me because obviously on my own, I just don't have enough firepower to really hit the nail on the head with whatever question it is. It's also much more fun to have a conversation, of course, about whatever the issue, topic, etc. is. So I'm hoping you're going to be inspired and enjoy this particular set of questions. And yeah, we're going to get there in a second. But first, I want to tell you about a website platform that's been a game changer for many artists

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5:06absolutely free. All right, let's get on to the episode. There's an extended bonus version where Arlene talks a bit about her forms of meditation including her various types of workouts. So that'll be the extended bonus for Patreon listeners. In the meantime, thank you very much for being here. Thank you for your patience in my absence as I moved. Oh, and the other thing I will say is I've been thinking about sharing the epic drama or story of my move which is still not completely done because I have a lot of

5:40artworks in my garage that I am leaving and I am moving to a garage that does not really have storage. So maybe you've been through this downsizing process. I would love to hear about it. Anyway, that is still in process. We haven't made our full move out yet, but we are gradually getting moved into the new space. Maybe you recognize the different acoustics in this room versus the old one if you have sharp ears. So anyway, all that said, I am thinking about doing a little monologue about

6:12that why we moved out first of all, not to mention how. And I'm thinking of doing it on Patreon unless I get a bunch of people saying, oh, I really want to hear that story. It feels awfully personal to put out on a public feed. So if I do do it, I think I will do an edited down version on Patreon for Patreon supporters. All right, on to the episode. Welcome to the Intrepid Artist. Here we go.

Social Media Importance

6:42This is the Intrepid Artist, an artist advice podcast where you, the artist or art world person of some sort, ask a question and we give you advice or answer your question. And I am very happy to be joined today by Arlene Correa Valencia. Welcome. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. All right. So let's jump into this first question. Here we go. How important is social media like Instagram?

7:16Really? I'm finding that most residencies or application processes ask for social media handles. If you are not looking for fame or to sell online, why is it so seemingly important for open calls to see your Instagram? How detrimental is it to not have a social media presence specifically for grant residencies, open calls? I am not looking for the answer. Every artist should have a presence online. I really want to know why in specific relation to open calls. What are they looking for? To me,

7:51it indicates they are seeing how popular slash how many followers you have. And if it's something the organizations utilize for their own optics, like what a mediocre artist with 10K followers, hundreds of posts versus an artist with 50 followers, four posts, but really compelling work on their website, they're better. Just curious, Michelle from New Pulse. This is a long time listener. Hello, Michelle. So what do you think? Wow. That is a great question, Michelle. I feel like I'm also wondering

8:24a few of those points that you're asking. And as an artist, I don't know that I have the correct answer or like that I have a full answer, but I do know that the times I have been on a jury and I have been provided the social media handles, I almost feel not turned off, but like very wary of the artists that do have like the 50,000 followers and are posting, like constantly pushing things out

8:55because it feels to me that they're curating a persona rather than what I'm looking for, which is why I'm, I'm on social media. I'm looking to see what the artist has to say about how they see the world and how that informs their practice. And so to get more specific into that, I think that the way I use social media is not necessarily to like post another painting and be like, here's the newest work that I made, but it's to say like, Oh, today I saw this. I thought that was interesting. And it

9:29informs my practice or what I'm making and how I'm thinking about the development of what I'm making. And I think it's interesting to share that with you. And I think originally for me, that's what social media was about. It was about saying like, you know, we turned it into like what we're eating and sharing like our next meal. But for what, what I found interesting about it initially was saying like, here's a moment in my life that I think deserves to be shared so that you can see my humanity beyond what is being projected of me. Right. So like, I don't want to read or see your social media and feel

10:05like I'm reading a bio or like an official artist statement, but I want to look at your social media and know that you are thinking about your place in the world and how you relate to your neighbors and how people are responding to that. Right. Like, do you have comments of people saying like, this is weird. I like it. Or like, I don't know, something like that. Like, right. Like, how are you engaging with the world? Are you creating these moments of kindness, empathy? Are you spewing hate? Like, what are you doing to create your world? And, and I'm being a chismosa. I want to see it, you know?

10:41You're being what? A chismosa. That's a Mexican term for nosy. Like, I want to see it, you know? I want to see, it's like, almost like being able to pull back the curtain and say like, here, here is who the artist is beyond the presentation of the works in an official gallery setting. That's so well said. I mean, when you describe the curated feed, you know, the curated portfolio. So when you look at somebody's back history, you know, you'll see these accounts that are very, I mean, there's,

11:18they range from the ones that, where they, they sort of make these puzzle-like grids, you know, where they match, which is pretty ridiculous. But then there's, there's so many accounts. There's so many feeds where you see a consistency, which is good, right? It's good. You know, like, this is, this is my work. This is my work over time. But I think to your point, it's also a little too curated, a little too smooth, a little too safe, maybe, et cetera. The question though,

11:52the follow-up question I would ask when you describe showing a little bit of yourself and how you see the world is to what extent should those kinds of posts be in stories as opposed to posts? Right. Yeah. And not like the, the introduction of stories to Instagram specifically, like makes it so that you do have this other level of intimacy, right? Which I also find very interesting because they're fleeting and they don't stay forever. So it really hooks you, right? Like it,

12:24as, as a person, if you're interested in following this artist's work, it makes you have to follow to be able to continue getting, um, the breadcrumbs of who the artist is and how they go through their daily life, which is great. I mean, if you, if you're looking at it from a marketing perspective, it's kind of like hooking someone, right? And like keeping them coming for more. Um, one thing that I did want to acknowledge though, is that I think it can get tricky, right? With the question asking, like, are these applications looking for artists that have a big following to help themselves and to

13:00like get the big artists on their roster or on their residency or whatever it is. And I, I think that maybe they are looking at that, you know, and, and there should be, or maybe not, I don't know, there should be a level of transparency because that's just how the way that the art world has worked for a long time. You know, you go to a residency, you get these mega super artists, but then you also get some up and coming artists that are not as famous. And it's, it's a balance. I mean, I've been on that end, right. Where I've gone to residencies with amazing artists with big names. And I'm like,

13:32I know I'm nowhere near, um, the career that they're leading, but maybe the, the residency needs them to be able to fund people like myself or to bring people like myself who are emerging. Um, and so it, it, it can get tricky. And I think if we question it for too long, we don't do anything. Right. So like, I guess what I'm trying to say is like, be yourself on social media and post what you want to post, um, curate how you want to curate for yourself. And, and the way I see it is

14:06like, it's your own diary of who you are, your understanding of the world and how that's shaping your studio practice. Right. I think I'm going to play devil's advocate for Michelle for a second, because, um, it's easier said than done to show who you are, especially in a post, right? Like, cause if you are not, you know, if you are making the scroll that you were not happy with, right, you're not going to be posting that scroll, you're going to be trashing it in, in real life.

14:39And you're also going to be not including it. Maybe you'll be putting up on stories. I don't know. Would you? I, you know what I think personally, I think I would because I like, I thrive off of failures and I, I am a person that is like, this didn't work, but like, and even yesterday I showed up to the gym. I had a horrible day. I still swam. And then I posted, I was like, I went to the gym, I feel horrible, but here's my swim. You know, like I still showed up. Like now let's show up to the studio. That was my caption for my post yesterday. And, and, and I

15:12guess that I show the failures because it shows how I can move through them. Right. So maybe someone's looking at that. Who's like, Arlene, why are you posting your gym practice? But like my gym practice is equally as important as my commitment to the studio. And I think the two are like very correlated, um, and are not separate. So I don't know. I, I know it's hard, you know, and it's, it's especially hard when we're comparing ourselves to other artists and to other creators. But I, I mean, it's no different than just like being a human being who's flawed.

15:46I wonder though, if you were in a much different or, and earlier phase of your Instagram persona, if you would have done that post, you know what I mean? Maybe you would have, but the scenario that I'm kind of picturing is one in which you reached a certain level of attention on that platform. And then it was like, Oh yeah, Arlene, what's Arlene up to? Right. Oh, she went swimming. And so, and she talked about how that connects to going to the studio. But if you were Jane Blow,

16:21who was making whatever that, you know, nobody cared about, I don't know if they would be in the same position of either confidence or maybe more importantly, anybody caring. Right. Right. Is that fair? No, I think that's absolutely fair. That is very fair. And it's, it's complicated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I just want to make that point, but going back to what you said earlier, which I think was super helpful about being on juries yourself, which is at least you,

16:54if not several of your other jury fellow jury members, they're seeing the overly curated feeds and they're going, they're kind of going right. So I think that, I think Michelle, I think that's super helpful for you to know, but maybe her bigger question, which is a question that I feel like is going to come up over and over again in a, you know, in an advice context is how much do I need to be on social media? That was kind of what I took it to be her larger question. And I think

17:29it's really tricky because I remember reading about this in William Derejewicz's book. I had him as a guest on the show, which is a book called the death of the artist, which was about artists in different fields and how the internet, you know, particularly things like social media and Spotify, particularly for musicians and so on is like, it's, it's creating this overly specialized and long dragon's

17:59tail situation, right? Where things just get smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller niches. And at one point, the thing that I remember so well, him writing about, it's like certain people posting or maintaining their social media, they're doing it so begrudgingly, it's almost like, should they be doing it at all? You know what I mean? And it's kind of like, well, as I've said many times in conversations with people, you kind of have to, if you're a visual artist, right? So it's

18:30not really a question of whether you should or not, unless you're, you know, pick your Louise Bourgeois, you know, to use a dead artist makes it a lot easier. If you're not Louise Bourgeois, yeah, you should probably be posting and be on there, you know, at least to some extent. Absolutely. I agree. You should. And, and also, but like, also you should ask yourself, like, am I posting because I need to post or do I want to post? And would I still make the work if it was

19:02not posted? Because I think that if you're thinking about social media more than you're making work or you're worried about that aspect of it, that it's taking away from the practice of making the work or the engaging of the making, then you need to redefine what you're doing in general, because it's not about the social media, right? The social media should just be an added layer, like checking your email. It should be like, Oh, I'm going to check my email and write back and respond. And I'm going

19:35to post what happened this week in the studio or what I'm thinking about this week in the studio. And then you let go of it. And then it no, at least for me, it no longer should be on your agenda or on your mind. And the objective should be engaging with yourself in the studio. Totally. And I think when you say, when you said post what you've been doing in the studio, you actually maybe mean posting stories because it can be the kind of temporary update that people who

20:07are curious can keep tabs on you, but not the permanent kind of thing that even despite the experience you described with you on the jury and other jurors being kind of turned off by the overly curated. At the same time, as an artist who is sharing something, you don't want to share necessarily on a post, you know, something that's like a very experimental stage or what have you. Exactly. I think it has to be a balance, right? Unless you know that it's going to become a permanent

20:38thing and the work don't make it permanent on the grid. Well said. All right. Excellent commentary, Arlene. Okay. I think we're good for social media for now. We'll come back to it. Don't worry. Awesome. But I'm going to give you one more question or give us one more question, I should say. And I'm going to give you a choice of categories without telling you the question. So we have the category creative block slash motivation, money slash pricing, and or imposter

21:13syndrome slash mental health. Which one of those questions would you like to hear?

21:20Let's go with the creative block.

Creative Block Discussion

21:22All right. Excellent choice. This is going to be a doozy. Okay, here we go. This is from an anonymous listener. How do I motivate myself to create art? Sometimes I see others around me that are better at art because they practice more often. I have a busy schedule and I find it exhausting to push myself to draw on the weekends. Do you have any tips or advice on how I can get past this? Very broad question. Very maybe an artist at a certain phase in their

22:01career in their art making. But nonetheless, it's a question that was asked. We are here to address it.

Motivation to Create

22:10Okay. So I want to say, first of all, I have a question for you. Why are you drawing? Like, if I were you, I would sit down and before drawing, I'd answer for myself, why am I drawing? What is the purpose of drawing? And do I want to draw? Okay. I'm going to play the straw person in this scenario. And I'm going to say, you know, I just love to draw. Cool. No, I don't, I don't want to, you know, okay. I don't want to make fun

22:49of it in any way or anything like that. But yeah, drawing is fun, right? Like, I guess what I'm getting at is like, are you drawing because this is, this is what you want to do or this is what you need to do. I was, when I was in college, I had one of the best drawing professors and he, I believe it was like one of my very first art classes at, at school. And he started the class by asking who

23:21wants to be here, raise your hand. And me being the suspicious child that I was, I was like, I'm not raising my hand until I figure out what else is happening right now. Right. And then he said, if you raised your hand because he, um, because you want to be here, get out of my class. And then he said, all right, now who needs to be here, raise your hand. And everybody just looked at each other like, what is he talking about? Right. And he said, I want you guys to think about

23:56this again. Do you want to be here or do you need to be here? Cause those are two separate things, right? He said, if you want to be here because you want to learn how to draw, I have nothing for you. I will never be able to teach you anything. But if you need to be here because you need to learn how to draw as much as you need to breathe and you need to eat, to live, then stay in my class. I have everything to teach you. And that distinction to me has changed my life. So when I go into the studio,

24:28I often ask myself, do I want to be here or do I need to be here? Am I doing this because I want to find pleasure in it or because I need it so badly that I will not be able to breathe if I don't do it. And it's a hard question to ask yourself, right? And to answer. But I do think that it provides us with clarity about what we're doing in our life. And it doesn't just apply to drawing, right? It

25:00applies to everything that we do. So, you know, I don't think that either Michael or I could give you the answer for how to get past being exhausted and not being able to draw or not finding that motivation to push yourself to draw or to make beyond the limitations of everyday life. But you really just have to ask yourself, why are you doing it?

Artistic Needs and Wants

25:30What was your professor's name? Oh, I should know this.

25:37You could look it up and get back to me. That's totally fine. I should know. Oh, Mr. Eanes, Mark Eanes. And where was this? At California College of the Arts. Oh, okay. Nice. That's excellent. I think that that was so well said. And I think that distinction is genius. Because not only does somebody who is presumably a young person with a day job who's

26:07deciding whether or not they want to make art at all, is that a question that makes sense to them? But I think for so many of us, describing ourselves as needing to be an artist or needing to make art is a much better way of putting it. There's so many days where I have to drag myself to the studio. Like, I just want to keep reading the Sunday New York Times. I don't, you know, I just want to, I'm tired. I don't want to get off the fucking couch, right? Yeah. But at the same time, I came up with, or over the years, I should say, I have seen so many

26:45videos and or recordings with artists talking about how much they love to make their work. I remember this video that was like four or five LA artists. And one of them was the painter, Larry Pittman. And he was at his studio. And they showed him, you know, working. And then they cut to him talking. And he talked about how he would get in there at nine o'clock. And he would start

27:18painting. And before he knew it, it was five o'clock. And he didn't know where the day went. He was just like, he just went through it. And I was like, fuck you, Larry Pittman. That is such a load of fucking bullshit. No, it's real. It's real. You know what you, I think I get that 100% because there is nothing in my life that I want to do and need to do more than making work. I am resentful of my marriage, of my commitments to my family, of having to eat. I hate eating. Oh my gosh. If,

27:53if you could take that away from me, I don't even like, I don't want to shower. I don't want to brush my teeth because I mean, it's, and not every day is like this to also to be realistic, but when I am there, it is the most amazing, euphoric, drug inducing feeling in the world to create something that is in your heart and in your mind and to give it life is addicting and you forget about everything

28:24else. And I think I actually feel like I'm on a high chasing that, that addiction every day in the studio. And there are days when I go in there and I'm like, I hate being here. I don't want to be here. My back hurts. I have carpal tunnel. You know, like I have neglected my entire personal life. I have no social life. I can't remember the last time I saw my best friend and I just stare at a blank wall and, and you know, eight hours go by and I'm like, I did absolutely nothing. And then the next day I go

28:55in and I'm like, I know exactly what I have to do because I showed up for myself and because I was here and I made that commitment and then the work develops. Right. So even though maybe you're not like drawing right now, just sit there and stare at a blank piece of paper and, and like, think about it and think about what you're doing and your commitment to that. And, um, and maybe something will happen, you know, maybe, maybe you'll find the euphoric high. Hopefully you find it because making art is pretty damn cool. Um, I hope that you do fund it. I think I do need to say just for

29:31anybody who's listening, who is not necessarily constantly trying to reach euphoria that you don't have to, that works for you. That's who you are. That's your relationship to art, but there are other relationships to art that are, that are not quite as euphoric. Right. Oh yeah. Well, absolutely. Sometimes you just make things and, um, yeah. I do want to know though, when you spend

Studio Days and Research

30:01that day where you're like, fuck this and you're staring at the wall, what is that process like in your head during that day? Oh yeah. I, I'm personally thinking about all the things that I want to do, but I'm going to hold myself back from doing so I don't ruin a work. And, and I just sit there and I either like listen to music. I clean the studio. Um, I read something. I often times go back through, I just did this yesterday. I was going through all my old sketchbooks, especially

30:35like the time that I lived in New York and like looking for pieces of writing. I even shared this on social media where I was like, I love the pocket size sketchbooks because oftentimes I feel alone in my thoughts and I can just pull out this tiny sketchbook and write something to myself. And it's not that anyone's listening, but it's that I get to revisit myself later on in the future and I get to hear myself in the future. And so when you're having these moments of like not feeling inspired to create, you can go back to a moment where maybe you had a little bit of inspiration and pick that

31:11thread up and try to untangle it again. So that's, that's what those studio days look like for me. Or I look at old pictures or I scroll through my phone and just like look at pictures of the kids when they were little. And I like start thinking about the relationship of, you know, their, their childhood and mine and our family history and stuff. That's research. That's research for your work. Yeah. Do you ever feel, I should say, I'm trying to keep it a little more open-ended, but

31:42do those days, those hours contain thoughts of self-consciousness, self-awareness, gratitude, et cetera? I think it's hard. It's hard because I think, I think it's hard to feel grateful when you're not creating a product. You know, I think that maybe this is where the question is coming from. Like, how do I get myself there? Because we place so much value on the production of something. And unless there's a product to be seen and shared, then we don't have gratitude for the moments that

32:16led us to that, you know? And I know that for myself, it's really hard to say, oh, I just spent two days not doing anything, but actually it was all that research that was being done that nobody will ever see. And that I needed to be able to get to the product, but it is hard to have gratitude. Absolutely. I think you're using product as a synonym for object as opposed to a marketable item, correct? Yeah. Okay. Yes, exactly.

32:50Okay. Awesome. I just, I'm going to take another quick look at the listener's question and seeing if there's anything else. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you offered a lot of advice. I think if the takeaway I have is that your advice is to ask questions about why it's also, so that's kind of the starting point. And beyond that, it's about giving yourself the space to think, to decide what your priorities

33:22are. And to recognize that it's okay to spend time working when you don't want to do it, rather you need to do it. Yeah. Do you want to add anything to that?

33:41I don't think so. Yeah. I think that's all I got. No, you, that was a lot. No, but you know what? I think that what I really wanted to, I guess what I really want to emphasize is that no matter what you're doing, whether it's drawing or brushing your teeth or whatever, right? Like we really should be asking more of these questions of why we're doing things. Like, why are we doing them? You know what? Like it doesn't just have to be in the arts, like as a person, if we maybe sat down with ourselves a little bit more and asked our own bodies, why we're moving the

34:18way that we are, then we would maybe have a better understanding of who we are. And I don't think that that is specific to art, but I think that if you are making art, it can help guide you to a place where maybe you feel more happy with what you're doing.

34:35Interesting. I would suggest, based on your advice, that you start with asking yourself the question, why am I brushing my teeth? Okay? Once you have figured that out, somewhere between there and why am I making art? What's the next question between there and why am I making art? Yeah, it's all the same. It's, I know I sound crazy. It's all the same. You know, okay, it's kind of like, okay, your body tells you when you're hungry, right? And you know when you're hungry, unless you just eat

35:11all day, which is also fine in that we do that for pleasure sometimes, but your body tells you when you're hungry. So there should be something in you that tells you that you need to make art. And if you have that, make art. If you don't have that, go find that feeling in whatever it is that you're doing, because that's what you should be doing. Yeah. Well said. Let's theoretically end here, there. But I do want to ask you a question that came out of imagining you in the studio for two

35:44days. You know, it eventually became research, but it started with like staring at the wall.

Meditation and Art

35:51Do you have a relationship with meditation?

35:56There you go. That's the first episode of The Intrepid Artist. I hope you enjoyed it. There is a little bit of bonus content, as I mentioned. Just go to patreon.com slash the conversation pod to hear the rest. And you can support the show for as little as a dollar a month. Thank you very much for listening. And I will talk to you again soon. Until then, ciao for now.