Fan Favorite Fridays: Finding Your Style, Selling Out, and Treating Your Art Like a Real Business (with Kirsten Williams)

Introduction

0:00We are back with another Friday Rewind, one of your favorite episodes of all time. You're going to love it with Kirsten Williams, so let's get into it. To kick things off, just introduce yourself to the audience and tell a little bit about your career as an artist and why you're here. My name is Kirsten Williams, and I am in the Northern Virginia area right outside DC. My background as an artist, I've been into art all my life. My mom's a sewer and a quilter, and I have grandparents and great-grandparents that were

0:31musicians and artists themselves, so I've always been around it. I was in a military family growing up, so we moved around a lot, and art was something I always was able to turn to, so I really had, there was comfort in that, so I just dabbled in everything growing up. I learned to sew, I did pottery, I did drawing, I painted, I mean, I tried everything.

Artistic Background

0:54And then I had a friend who, in high school, really encouraged me to take photography, because she was taking photography. I did it all four years and loved it, just had such a passion for it, and I wanted to go to school for it. I thought, maybe I'll get an arts degree. It was such a different time, and getting a fine arts degree was really scary, so I decided to go the safe route, and I went into school of business and had a 15-year career after that in marketing, I was laid off in 2017, which was actually, in hindsight, such a blessing.

1:24I was able to stay home with my daughters, who are one in three, and just pursue painting on the side. A few years later, they went to school full-time, and I was able to really dive in, and that's been about four years now for me. I've been a full-time artist. Oh, that's amazing. Would you say what you learned studying business and doing marketing for that long helped you in your career now, or what do you think? It's such a different environment now. I think there are things I'm quite good at. I'm a little bit left-brained and a little bit right-brained.

1:55I never truly felt like a true soul of an artist, but I'm very artistic, and I never felt truly at home in business school, but I do have part of me that thinks very logically that way. So I think it's a good combination when starting a business and running a business as a creative to have a little bit of background in it. Obviously, it's so different now with social media, and the ways that you can work with galleries or online collectives is very different. None of that existed before. So that's all new to me. I've been navigating that over the years.

2:26Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Artistic Style

2:28Can you just quickly brief the audience on your work, your style, how you came to find that style, walk us through some of that? Yeah, I spent years experimenting, years, and I encourage that. I think it's really frustrating when you're starting out and you can see other people having success and talking about their style, and it's frustrating and discouraging to not have yours. I would just say paint a lot. I know everyone says that. It is so true. Paint a lot. But what really was a turning point for me is that I've dabbled in a lot of things.

3:02I've done abstracts. I've done landscapes. I've done florals. I did florals a few years ago, and recently I revisited them. And it reminded me of when my daughters were young, and we would do this little exercise together where they would want me to draw pictures, and then they would color them. And they wanted me to draw the flowers. Mommy, there's flowers outside. Draw the flowers. Draw it bigger. Draw something you've never seen. Draw the craziest flower ever. And we would just sit there together and make all these drawings, and then they would color them. And so that's where a lot of the silhouettes that I do right now come from.

3:36So I think that's really sweet. That's what's had such a success. Like, the success that it has had is all the more special because it came from something that I did with my girls. But yeah, a holiday collection last year was when I really started diving back into the silhouettes, and then I started adding a lot of color to them. And I've had a lot of response to them. And they've been doing really well. And I love painting them. So that's been my journey into finding my style. Yeah, I love that. And I think it's so true.

4:07I think so many people think artists just stumble into their style, and it appears. But it's really through years, potentially, of hard work. So what were you setting up in that time when you didn't have your style yet? Did you have a regular practice? How were you thinking about some of those things?

4:27I probably didn't paint as often as I should have. So looking back, I wish I had done a little bit more of that. I think I used to, what do I feel like doing from my business today? Oh, I feel like painting today. Or maybe I'll look into some opportunities. And it was because that is structured. And I just did what I felt at the time was the most important. And so within the last year, I've really changed how I treat this. I treat it very much like a business. So I do have a schedule.

4:57I have days where I only paint. I have days where I do some admin in the morning, or I'm doing taxes, or I'm doing applications. And then I always take time to paint a little bit if I can. I think it's so important to keep that part of it and to not get rusty. Because what I would notice is I would take a week off painting just to tend to other things. Or I'm a mom and my kids are homesick. And then it would be very difficult to get back into it. And so I want to keep, it's almost like exercise. You keep going and you keep doing it.

5:28And then it's not as difficult when you're doing it often enough. So that's my experience with it. Yeah, I like that perspective a lot. Because I feel like it is something that it has to be a habit, which is so ironic that something we theoretically should love has to be a habit. But I do think with all the other things on your plate, both business-wise for the art business and like personally, it's easy to step away from that.

Business Schedule

5:51Can you walk us through how you're setting up your schedule to focus on both business and art and what that looks like for you? Yeah, I think it's, I have a calendar. I write everything down. I know I have an online calendar as well, but I'm old school. I like to see it. I'm visual, obviously. Today was a paint day. Today, all day, I schedule nothing else but painting. I like to have at least two days a week where I have no other concerns other than just painting. And then it depends on what's happening. There are definitely different seasons throughout the year of whether there are opportunities where

6:22I'm reaching out about things or filling out applications or taxes and all that stuff. It really does change, but I schedule my weeks out. Like Sunday, I'll sit down and be like, what does my week look like? Yeah. And then I try to fit everything around it to accommodate certain things like full days of painting without having to worry about other things. Yeah. I don't know if enough people set up their calendars that way because I think a lot of people do the business things as the business things come up, paint when painting comes up.

6:53But I love that you're spending a whole day, two full days a week, but like a full day just devoted to the painting because it is such a different mindset, or at least I felt this way when I can paint and not be thinking about all the other things I like, quote unquote, should be doing. And I think that's such a smart strategy and it obviously takes discipline. I would love to do that, but it's so easy to be like, oh, sure, I'll do this call on this day or start answering emails. Yeah. I'm having a good week. So it's actually working well this week. It doesn't line up like that every week, trust me. But I agree with you. It does exercise a different part of the brain.

7:24So it is, I've talked to my husband about it all the time. It's so strange going from research and filling out applications to immediately jump into painting. I always told him, I'm like, I can't schedule painting. It like comes when it comes, but we don't always have the flexibility for that. So I have started just scheduling it and treating it like a non-negotiable. Yeah. And scheduling big blocks because I think people know that task shifting is difficult. That's why people batch work and stuff. But I think it's one thing to shift from email to sales tax.

7:55It's another to shift from email, like you said, to painting that's, like you said, totally different part of your brain. And I think the fact that you're just allowing yourself that space to really get into it is probably why your style and your work and all of this have really flourished. Yeah. Yeah. So I would agree with that a hundred percent.

Marketing Strategy

8:13How would you say you're working to really grow your business? I know your new style seems to have been really taking off, but what have you been doing in the background to get noticed? Whether it be social media or word of mouth or outreach, how are you thinking about marketing? That's a great question. I've been applying to a lot of things and just seeing, like testing the waters. And I have been doing that over the past year and a half. But I think part of what comes from doing different shows is inherently marketing. So I was part of the Spotlight on Art show and I had quite a few followers and collectors

8:47contact me from that. So I just think it's just an organic growth that I've had. I don't have a ton of Instagram followers. I don't have a ton of marketing strategy to share other than I just, I let it grow as it can. I do run ads sometimes. I will run ads around a collection release, which has been very helpful. I just did a collection release a couple of weeks ago and ran an ad the week leading up to it. So I had a lot of new eyes on my work that, which helped.

9:20I just, I post content. I don't always post the most original, exciting content. I look at Instagram as more of my portfolio. I do share bits and pieces of myself and stories and personal things to a degree, but I really treat Instagram. Here's my portfolio. If someone is looking at my work, they want to look at my work. I do love following artists that share more of themselves personally, and I'm working on that, but I'm not always comfortable with that. So that hasn't really been part of my marketing plan because of the comfort level, but I'm

9:51starting to get more and more comfortable. I'm on this podcast. Yeah. Also, it just, it takes time. As someone who's gone from like zero to a hundred, not saying like a hundred, but have really shifted what I'm doing. It definitely is a process. It's not like something you're just born, or at least I was not born comfortable with. Yeah. And you've figured out what works for you. In terms of ads, I love that you're incorporating them in around launches and when times, like when you would want more eyeballs on your stuff, how do you think about ads? Do you have any way you structure them or how do you create them for those of us that don't do as many of them?

10:21This is going to, there's really no secret to it. I just pick, if I've run a piece that had gotten a lot of response, likes or comments or people engaging with me, I'm like, okay, that, that would make a good ad. And that's the way, that's all I've run. I love it. It's simple. Yeah, it was effective. Yeah. If you're using Instagram as your portfolio primarily, or that's how you're thinking of it, which is great. That's how I think of mine as well. What other tools are you using to get eyes? Do you have an email list? Are you using like really utilizing your website?

10:52Like how are you using those other things? Yeah, absolutely. I do have an email list. Started that a few years ago, I leading up to a launch. And once I start really putting in my work out there, that's coming out, whether it's through my partnerships that I work with, whether it's through my website, I will, I'll make sure people know where to go. And I always direct people to my email list. So that is a huge priority. I will say my last collection, I always do an hour early access for my email list. And most of the time, that's where I get the majority of my sales.

11:22And I had 25 pieces and I think I sold 21 through my pre-sale. Wow. It's set up your email list. It is so important. I think that's the theme of this podcast. I make artists say it. Oh, it's so true. It's so true. And I think so many people are scared about sending emails and annoying people and whatever. But I'm like, no, it's one, it's, it has the best return on your investment. You really, it really is where most of this stuff gets sold. But also people are asking to be on it.

11:53If they're annoyed, they can unsubscribe. But like, you're putting something out there that they actively have said they want. What are you including in your newsletters? Are you just sharing them around launches? Are you like a monthly cadence? Like, how do you think about them? I'd love to do like actual newsletters where I share inspiration. And I have notes upon notes on my phone that I keep when I'm doing a collection or a series about things that strike me or a color that I'm obsessed with. So I could easily turn that into a newsletter if I just put that on my schedule, which I

12:25probably should. But really, it's just around launches. I'll send a preview email, which has been amazing. I'll send that the day before so that the collectors or anyone on the email list can see what all the pieces are, what the sizes are, what the prices are. I used to almost feel like I had to keep things a secret until launch. But people like to plan. I like to plan. Yeah. I want to know what size things are. I want to know if it's in my budget or not. So it occurred to me a few months ago, oh, I should probably start sending a preview email. So I did that. And I really just do it around collections.

12:58I haven't been doing anything more than that, but I really should. So maybe I'll put that in my goals for the year. Yeah. Think about it. Especially if you have the notes already, it sounds like something you would be interested in and could easily. That could be a way you'd incorporate more of that personalization that some people do on Instagram. But I think for some people, it comes way more naturally through an email. So I think that could be great for you. I love that you're sending preview emails because I think a lot of people don't do that. And I'm like you, I'm a planner. If you're like everything's selling out and there's this piece and I don't know if it's

13:29going to fit in my space, I like freeze up. But if I have, you know, a little bit of time to measure and make sure it works for the budget and all that stuff, I'm still much more likely to purchase. I had several people tell me that they use little apps to put a piece in there on their wall and see if it would work and do all of that pre-planning. It's so important. That is one thing that I've started doing that I'm, wow, I can't believe I didn't do that sooner. The preview email. Yeah. Can you walk through your launch timeline and how you, I think for a lot of people, they hear the word launch.

13:59They have an idea what it means. Like, how are you actually implementing a launch? So I, I've recently switched to, I redid my website at the end of last year with Hello June Creative. Amazing experience. Highly recommend her. My whole platforms have changed. I switched from MailChimp to Flowdesk. I switched from Squarespace to Shopify. So I am still ironing out all the kinks. That all went live about a week and a half before my holiday collection went out. And so I hit a bunch of snags during that launch.

14:31So I learned a lot. I set up my listings to go live, you know, a little bit before pre the, the pre-sale email goes out just to make sure that no, there's no issues, but I'll send the preview email out. Like my last launch, I did a preview email at 10 AM on a Wednesday, and then I opened it up to everyone at 11. So I do an hour pre-sale. I've done them at night before I've done them at 7 PM pre-sale. 8 PM launch. I don't know that there's like the perfect time.

15:02I was playing around with days and times to see what would work the best. And I don't, I still don't know. I still don't know that audience dependent. It's so interesting. And time of year makes a big difference. And I just don't know that there's really any like secret to it. So that's just a hard part of all of it is not really being able to tell why something did well or why something didn't do well.

15:33And you never truly know you're like, that worked. Maybe I'll do it again next time, but maybe it won't work next time. I don't know. Maybe I'll try something else. So some of it is just, I feel like trying on a new time this time. So I'll try it a new time or I'll try it a new day. Or I have learned not really to put out collections during holiday weeks. That's not been good for me. Summer is not a great time. I don't really plan my collections out for the whole year. I work and see, okay, the work is accumulating.

16:04Okay. This looks like a collection. Okay. Now I can set a date. That's how I work. I wish I had a little bit more structure, but I don't yet. But I, yeah, I released a collection in June last year. That was hard. And then I heard from many artists saying, oh yeah, summer's not a great time. I don't know. You learn. I feel like you learn as you go. That's a lot of time on this. Yeah. Some things are truths. Like I feel like summer sometimes isn't great. I did have one summer that was like weirdly really good for my business. So I'm like, there's always the outliers. That's so true.

16:34And then time of day too. I always had luck with mornings. But then the other day I tried, I just was sending a newsletter. So it wasn't like, but even the click rate was lower. Cause I sent it at night, but I was thinking, well, I thought if people were going to read something, they'd be more likely to read it, you know, not during the day. And so you never know. And I always try to think about how I use these different apps and platforms, but that doesn't even always help. I know. And I like to think, or not, I like to think, but it occurs to me that everyone has a different job. So everyone's doing something different during the day.

17:05So what works for me doesn't work for someone else. And you can't, there's really no pleasing everyone. There's no perfect time. So I, it's easier for me to launch during the day because then I don't have to kick my kids out of the studio and do it at night. Right. So that's what I do. Prioritize yourself first. If you're not seeing huge reason not to. Yeah. I think it's really interesting that you just redid your website and switched platforms. I love your website, by the way. I think it looks so good. I'll definitely shout out. Is it hello, June? Hello, June. Great. Yeah.

17:36I'll definitely tag her because people are always asking for recommendations and it's always good to hear good people, but did she or her company recommend you switch to Shopify? Was that kind of a personal decision? So yeah, what went into the process of switching from one platform to the other? And even you can touch on MailChimp versus Flowdesk too. Okay. So when I switched to Shopify, she works with the developer that I also worked with, Genuine Creative, who was amazing. And she worked primarily with Shopify.

18:06So if I wanted to redo my website and have some of the functionality and things that I was looking for, it just made sense to switch. It is not as beginner friendly. I'm still having issues and kinks that I Google as my friend and Shopify support. I love them. So that makes it easier, but I'm still getting used to it. I think Squarespace was much easier, but of course my website was nowhere near as beautiful and detailed and professional as it is now.

18:39The process was easy because they did it for me. Yeah. They set everything up and we worked on it together. They put in so many long hours with design and implementation and they really listened to everything that I was trying to accomplish. And then we were trying to figure out how to do this and how do we do this? And one thing I really wanted to do was offer options. So if I have a listing, I wanted to say, would you like this piece, paper piece, just as the paper piece, or would you like it framed or would you like it matted?

19:09And I didn't want to have multiple listings. I wanted it all under one listing with the dropdown. So they really helped me figure that out. What app do we need in their store to do that? There's a lot of functionality that I wanted as I see my business growing to offer. I wanted options and I wanted a lot of that. So I think that's been really great. I used that with my holiday collection. I was able to offer pieces matted or un matted. And it's so funny because it was like a 50-50 split with what people wanted. So I'm glad I had that functionality. Yeah. Because you never know if someone wants it matted or not, but it was easy.

19:43The process was easy. It's just, it's taken some getting used to. Now the switch to Flowdesk was seamless. I love Flowdesk. I wish I had switched earlier. Like migrating all my contacts over was super easy. And I just love, once you set up your email templates, it's so easy. All of that takes time, regardless of what platform you're using. So I just had to redo some of the things that I had done a couple of years ago, which needed an upgrade anyway. So it was a good excuse to do it all. Yeah. You'll get used to Shopify.

20:14I'm just going to put that out there. I also have, I switched to Shopify years ago, so I've had my time. But it is less, I guess, user-friendly off the get-go than a Squarespace that's a little more like drag and drop. But I think long run, the e-commerce benefits and the things you can do with it, once you figure out how to do it, I feel like I'm coding back here. I'm like clicking all these amazing things happen. I know. Yeah. I can totally see that. I'm so happy I switched. But there are certain points where I'm like, oh, if this was in Squarespace, I would know

20:46how to do it. Right. You know? So I'm just getting used to it. But it's a good growing pain. No. And it's a big step in your business, too. Investing in revamping website, email, all that is a huge step. But it's really paid off. Just from an outside perspective of someone who's followed you, your new website is fabulous. Like, it just looks well. I was clicking around on it. Obviously, before this interview, I always love to see what's new and what's going on. And it just, it functions well. But it also feels very you. It aligns with the artwork. So your website can make a really big difference.

21:18I don't think everyone has to invest in a website right away. But if you are at that point, it can make a big difference in how your business is perceived. And what's so funny about that comment is that I don't, so all of this growth started happening for me right when I received my new branding and did my new website. So I don't know if it's that I simply was taking it more seriously and putting more into it, that I got more out of it, or did that, did the revamp of that, who knows what. But I just feel like it was a total mindset shift where I finally was at a point where I

21:50was going to make the investment on a brand design, on my website, and it's paid off tremendously, I think. It's really great to hear you say that it's nice because I don't have, I think we don't have any coworkers. So like, I'm alone here and I think it looks great. My husband thinks it looks great. My kids love it. But other than that, I don't hear a ton of feedback. So it's great to hear that it's functioning limits. It aligns with my work because that was the goal. It really does. And I do think it's a chicken and the egg scenario, like what came first, because I'm such a believer that if it goes both ways, like I think if you do something that's

22:24investing in your business and you put that time or money or effort into it, you're also going to take it more seriously. You're like, I spent the money on this. I'm a professional now, or I feel more professional. I'm going to show up more confidently. But also the other way around, as an outsider, I only know as much about you as you put forth. And when you have a really incredible website or really beautiful photography, those things, all of a sudden I jumped to the conclusion that you're a professional. So it really is both. So it makes complete sense to me that things really started growing for you around this

22:57time, probably because your own confidence grew and other people saw that through the branding, obviously, and through what you were putting out in the world. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It was, yeah. During that time. And then again, with the, I just really started treating this like it is a job. It is a job. And it's a wonderful thing to be able to be creative, but there is so much, there is so much that goes into it other than just painting. So it's just really making the time for the work, but really also making the time to support the work and give it the attention it deserves and the platform it deserves and all of that

23:31kind of all goes hand in hand. So. Absolutely. Can you touch on, as you've grown, some different challenges you faced regarding growing your

Challenges and Successes

23:40business or selling the work or just really anything that's been a challenge with running your own business? Yes. I think I touched on this a little bit already, but it's kind of, I've been doing this for seven years now. And so there's been a lot of years of rejections and no's and collections not doing well. And just, you never really know why you never know why is it the work? Is it the pricing? Is it where I'm putting it? Is it the audience?

24:10Is it the time I'm launching? There's just so many, which is a wonderful thing. There's so many things to tinker with. There's so many things to adjust and see what works and what doesn't, but that can be also the most discouraging part. It's just never knowing why. And you apply to a gallery or a show and you don't get accepted and you don't know why. Is it because there's too many people doing something colorful like I'm doing or are they looking for a totally different genre of work? You just never know.

24:40So I think that can be incredibly discouraging and still is. I'm still getting, I'm not getting accepted to everything I apply for. And I think there was a quote that someone had, I read, or I had heard another artist say it, or that if you're not getting more rejections than yeses, you're not applying to enough. And so I always remember that, okay, if I'm not getting rejections, it means I'm not putting myself out there. So I really tried to put myself out there more, but yeah, I think the hardest part is just never knowing if you're, if what you're doing is hitting.

25:13Exactly. And I think working by yourself, yes, I'm sure your family is supportive, but sometimes you want that external validation from someone in the realm, like another artist, like, no, this is right. Like you're doing a good job and it's really hard because pretty much all of us work by ourselves. And so we have to be our own advocates, but that's a lot harder than it sounds. Yeah. Yeah. Especially when we're doing a lot of these things for the first time or exactly. Yeah. And there's so many wonderful things about it, but there's also some real challenges to it. And that's one of them. Yeah.

25:44What have been some of your successful moments, things that have gone really well for you? I, I started the year off with this new work at Spotlight on Art in Atlanta. And I was very surprised that I wasn't surprised. I love the work. I believe in the work. But you just never know what's going to resonate and what's not. And I sent 31 pieces down there and they sold out. So I was floored. You always dream of a sellout moment and it seems very unattainable and then it happens. And then I followed it up with the collection on my website and pretty quickly within a little

26:17over a day, those sold out as well. So is it happening? Is it happening right now? So it's been wonderful. It's been a really positive start to the year. And so it's made me think, okay, what can I do next? What, what else can I achieve? So those have been some like incredible wins. Incredible. I think even along the way, it's like getting my first website set up. That was a huge win.

26:39Certain people following you back on Instagram or a lot of people engaging, or when you have collectors that come back. I have so many repeat collectors that will come back every year to check out my holiday collection. And it, it just means the world when not only do people want to purchase your stuff, but they want to come back. You're those things that aren't the same as like selling out a collection, but those, those like amazing things. When you really stop to think about it, this person is a stranger to me. They don't know me. They started following on Instagram. They love my work enough that they signed up for my newsletter.

27:12Then they click through to my newsletter and want to purchase a piece. All of those things are just wild. It's so incredible to me to have just moments where you sit back and you're like, wow, this is amazing. This is the dream. There's just been so many wins along the way, really. Yeah. I think you're at such an interesting point in your career. And I'd love to talk to you again in a year from now or something, because I think you've done the patience. Like you've been in it for seven years and that's not to say nothing good happened during that time, but I think you're at this pivotal point where it's like, all right, all this

27:44hard work is really starting to pay off in a pretty quick amount of time. But I think that's the way it happens for a lot of artists is I always tell people, I'm like, you're not going to want to hear it, but being an artist is a game of patience. Like you just have to wait to find your style. Like it doesn't happen overnight. A lot of the things you just have to wait to learn how to do these things. And it's definitely a game of patience, but it really does pay off. And it's really amazing when things start working and then you can start like playing and exploring more and all these different things. So it's going to be really interesting to see how you continue to grow.

28:14Because I think you have such a great perspective now of seeing what every, everything that went into this, but also there's so much more ahead, which is, I think, really cool to watch. Yeah, I'm excited. Thank you for saying that. I, yeah, it's like a real pinch me moment right now. I'm super proud of what I've done and I'm so excited to see what's coming up. Do you think, just a random question, but do you think, obviously there was the website and there was obviously the rebrand, but do you think spotlight was a pivotal moment at all for you? Has your style evolved in tandem with any of these things? Or did you have the style and these helped skyrocket?

28:45Like what was the order of all these things happening? So for, for my holiday collection, I was doing florals, but it was purely like silhouettes. I hadn't started adding a bunch of color and detail for spotlight. That is when I debuted these pieces. I sent them down there and it's so funny because they do an amazing job of taking stories and like putting everything out there and there's pictures everywhere and video. And I'm like, wait, I don't see any of my work. Why is none of my work hanging up? Where is my work? And it was so many people that were unboxing it that worked there that said they grabbed

29:18pieces even before it hit the floor. So I was like, wow. So that's really where this work debuted and it had success right away. And then I was, is it going to hit, not hit, but is it going to do as well on my website as it did at an event where people are there specifically shopping for art? And it did well. And so I'm very, I'm just very happy with how everything has evolved. It's felt quick, but like you said, it's been years and years of experimentation and development and trying things and using different materials.

29:48I've worked with every sort of medium ever. So I love acrylic. I always will love acrylic. I love that it dries quicker. I love oil. I love how deep and saturated and like beautiful oil is, but I just don't have the patience to. So that's exactly the way for it to dry. I'm too impatient for oil. I know. That's how I feel. I love an oil stick. I, so I hope to maybe work in this style, but add some more. I love texture. I love textured artwork.

30:19My husband and I collect artwork and we have so many pieces around the house that are just so textured and I love texture. So I think maybe that's where I'm going to head next and continue this work and add a little bit texture and play around with that a little bit. It's so exciting to feel there's so much I can do with what I'm doing right now. I have so many ideas of where I want to take this same style. And that's one of my main goals this year is I'm not going to switch. I'm not going to switch it up. Typically I used to work in collections and then I'm going to do a floral collection and

30:52then I'm done with it. And then I'm like, oh, now I feel drawn to abstract. I'm going to paint an abstract. And then I was done with it. And then I wanted to move to something else. So my exercise for the year is to not change subject matter, to develop this series and see where it goes without giving up on it before I start. Well, I think that's a really good piece of advice because I think, especially when you're first starting, what you were doing is great because I think that's how you find your style is through experimentation and leaning in. But I think now that you've found something that resonates both with you and your audience,

31:22I actually think limitation is so good in certain scenarios. They always made us an art school, like have like very strict parameters around things so that you're forced to be creative. And so I almost think sticking with one specific subject matter, but allowing yourself to experiment within that textures. But I'm sure there's other things you're going to come up with. I think that'll actually influence the work so much more. And then a year from now, who knows what you'll be creating. But I think limitation sometimes can actually make your creativity flourish more because you don't, it's like you, you don't have endless possibilities.

31:54You have endless possibilities within a box. And that is so true because I think when you're starting out or as you're even developing, it's like, I would get so overwhelmed with the amount of ideas I would have. Where do I start? And that would paralyze me. So I wouldn't even paint because I wouldn't know where to start. So you're so right. Putting a little bit of a limitation on just to see what can come from it. Yeah. I'm excited about that. Yeah. I think that's great. I think you have great things ahead of you. Looking back, just round us out. Is there anything you would change? Is there anything you would have done differently up to this point?

32:25Anything you would have changed to get you where you are faster or differently or anything like that? I don't think so because I honestly, I don't know that I would have been ready for it. I don't know that my work would have been there. I don't, I could look back and say, yes, maybe if I had painted more, I would have arrived there quicker. But where I am in my life, the age of my kids, where all of that, it just has lined up to be, okay, I can be busy now. I can say yes to these opportunities because I have the time. And I feel like I didn't go to art school, but I feel like I've spent so many years studying

32:58and developing and experimenting that it's really paid off in how I feel like confident about my work. So I don't think I would have been there even a year ago. Yeah, I agree. I think that's great. Just in general, I think a lot of people agree with the sentiment of not going back and changing anything. Cause I really believe like every little thing leads to the next that makes you prepared for where you are now. So I love that. So true. Yeah. This has been fantastic. I love to round out every episode with a lesson or a tip or something that's really benefited you outside of all the things you've wonderfully shared, but anything that's benefited

33:33you in your business could even be something super practical, like an app or a computer something. So I know you do this tip. I was thinking about this. I, for me, it's such a, it's such a, it's always been a very mental game. And I think I talked about that with the discouragement of not having feedback, but for me, it's, it's a mindset of never getting too down when you get the rejections and always pushing forward, if you believe in yourself, this is sounds so horny, but you know what I'm saying?

34:06It's never giving up. It's never, it's just keep going. It's so funny. People have asked me, have you thought about stepping away? And now I've never thought about stepping away. It's never really been something I've thought about, but all those rejections and all those nose, and then you have to pick yourself up and keep going and believe in yourself. That is such a mindset that either you have it or you don't have it. It would have been so easy to stop so many times, but when you, when I try to just reframe it in my mind, okay. When I look back after all those rejections, there came a leap.

34:39It's almost like when my kids were younger and there were babies and there would be crying all night long. And then all of a sudden they would grow two inches or something like that. There's always like the disappointment and the discouragement, and then something wonderful would happen and it would just propel you. That's been my experience. So it would be to don't like my advice, we just don't get down because it's all part of it. It's all part of it. And you'll see the cycles of, um, fielding these rejections and the nose and the not having

35:10as much success as you think you should have for the picking yourself up and keep going. And that's how you get stronger. That's how you get better. And then the success will mean all the more when it comes. Yeah, I love that. I think that's a really great way to round us out because I think that's so true. I think that's so many great things happen from the trials and from even failure leads to growth. And so I think that's a really good message to conclude us with. Can you share how the audience can learn more about you, shop your work, your socials,

35:43website, all the best ways for them to reach you? Yeah, my Instagram is Kirsten Williams art and my website is the same. So you can shop on there. I, and I upcoming, I have a bunch of stuff upcoming. It's all on my Instagram bio. I will be at the Loyola art, art show in August in Alabama. So I'm super excited about that and yeah, just follow along. I love it. We'll all be there. I'm coming as a, just a viewer, but I'm excited. So I'll definitely hopefully get to meet you in person. Yeah, but this has been great.

36:15Thank you so much for your time. I think this will be a really, really impactful episode. Thank you for having me. It's so great to chat with you. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Stay tuned because I will be in your inbox on Thursday if you're a Substack subscriber with another episode and I'll be back on Tuesday with another interview. Talk to you then.