Kacey Musgraves walks country’s borderlands

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K.C. Musgraves Introduction

1:15slash iPhone for details. Charlie, where were you in August of 2015? Do you remember? I'm a late summer birthday, so I was probably preparing a celebration by myself of the end of my 20s. I can tell you exactly where you were. Really? Because we were recording the 18th episode of our podcast. It was called Transgressing Country. It featured our friend, the brilliant New Yorker author, Andrew Morant. And we were

1:48discussing for the first time an artist who was just making waves in the country music scene named K.C. Musgraves. You know I love K.C. Musgraves, but the only thing I love more than K.C. Musgraves is proving you wrong, because we talked about her on our very first episode titled Heartbreak. We played the song I Miss You. It's off of her first album, same trailer, different park. Oh, is that the one that uses the chords from Radiohead's creep? Yes, sir. Okay, now I'm remembering we talked about K.C. Okay, here's I Miss You.

2:20Oh, my God, it's you. I never thought I'd see you here.

2:40Man, she was great from the get-go. That's her first album. So, K.C. has been with us since literally the first episode of our podcast. You may love proving me wrong, but actually, this just deepens the point I want to make, which is K.C. Musgraves has a new album, and it is a return to the sound that we explored way back in, what I was going to say, 2015, maybe even earlier than that. 2014, yep. October 2014. So, Charlie, we get to go back in time a little bit in today's episode.

3:13I get to be young again. Welcome to Switched On Pop. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. And I'm musicologist Nate Sloan.

K.C. Musgraves Discography

3:27Do you remember the name of that album we were discussing, Charlie, K.C.'s debut? Same trailer, different park. Yes. Such a good title. One of the great album titles of the 21st century, and it introduced a kind of figure that we hadn't really seen before. A pot-smoking, queer, celebrating, outlaw country throwback, who at that time was really going against the grain of the mainstream country sound and look, with songs like Merry-Go-Round, one of my favorites of all time.

4:01Mama's hooked on Mary Kay. Brother's hooked on Mary Jane. Daddy's hooked on Mary two doors down.

4:13Merry, merry, quack and trary. We get bored so we get married. Just like dust, we settle in this town.

4:23On this broken, merry-go-go-go-go. It's so beautiful. All the wordplay from children's nursery rhymes, but about the feeling of going nowhere, stuck in a rut when you're from a small town in Texas. And, oh, it's so good. It's hard almost to remember how radical this felt at the time. Every other country song seemed to be praising small-town rural life. And K.C. was stepping back and saying, hey, there's actually a lot of struggles that are very specific to this rural reality

4:58that I experienced and grew up with. I feel like her music is kind of like that saying, dress conservatively and speak radically. Because the music is very restrained, right? Very traditional. Very traditional. Traditional instrumentation, banjo, pedal steel, that sort of like train-like snare drum. But then what she's saying is very powerful. Makes you lean in. From STDP, same trailer, different parts, she released a series of ambitious concept albums

5:29that pushed the envelope on what country could be. Golden Hour melded country with disco to express her joy in entering a new relationship. Won a Grammy for album of the year. I think we've seen enough, seen enough To know that you ain't ever gonna come down So why don't you giddy up, giddy up And ride straight out of this town

6:00You and your hearts A little disco trot. So good. Her next album, Star-Crossed, delved into styles like folk and even psychedelia to mourn the end of that same relationship. If I need just a little More time to deal with the fact That you should have treated me right And I'm more than just a little justified

6:31Those ambiences really earn her the title, Spacey Casey. That song was justified And I think at this point in her discography Listeners are prepared to hear something a little different An exploration of her internal journey Which continues with Deeper Well from 2024 Her most recent album Which settled into maybe a soft rock groove

7:01To narrate a journey of healing and finding peace And I've got to take care of myself I found a deeper well That's the title track, Deeper Well. I saw this tour. It blew me away. She is such a talented songwriter and performer And I just got to say

7:32I see where you're going You're going through the discography here And I want to let you know, Nate That I am a Casey completist You did skip over album two Pageant material That's right And it is pageant material It's fantastic But let's go to today

Middle of Nowhere Album

7:46Because she's got a new album It's called Middle of Nowhere And I feel like it's taking a break From the theme that we saw emerge In those last three albums Which was looking inward This album looks outward It looks to her home, her roots And to the different regional Texas musical styles That shaped her growth as a musician Casey said the title was inspired by a sign she saw

8:18When she was visiting her hometown Golden, Texas Somewhere in the middle of nowhere That's a great self-aware sign Nice small town We have styles like Norteño Mariachi Outlaw country Tejano We have Willie Nelson And we have that return I was talking about I want to go back to something Andrew Morant said When we were talking about songs like Merry-Go-Round Which we listened to earlier

8:48He said something that I always think about When we heard Casey sing that line Just like dust, we settle in this town It sounds like a cliche But then you realize you've never actually heard it before It sounds like a cliche But then you realize you've never actually heard it before I mean that is the craft of songwriting Is saying a thing you've definitely absolutely heard That just feels like you've known it your entire life And in fact, it's a new way of expressing that universal emotion She's so good at that She's such a clever wordsmith

9:20Also, a moment for us to appreciate How far our audio quality has come Yeah, don't go back to episode 18 or episode 1, please No, no, you should I was pleasantly surprised by how cogent we sounded But yeah, this feels like she's trying to recover Some of the songwriting techniques from those early albums And for me, it's a really welcome return Let's dig into some of the lyrics and songwriting styles

9:51On Middle of Nowhere And see how Casey Musgraves is reasserting herself As one of the key voices in country music And let's start with a song that embodies so much Of what made us kind of fall for this artist in the first place It's called Dry Spell It's been real long 335 days And the last time It wasn't good anyway

10:22I'm so lonely Lonely with a capital H If you know what I mean I've been sitting on the washing machine It's my favorite part of the show Where I make Charlie feel uncomfortable No, no, no, yeah Charlie, what does Lonely with a capital H mean? I definitely, on the first time I heard the song I had to think it through for a second It did not hit Not that it's a bad punchline But it took me a second Lonely with a capital H

10:52And I was like You're like honely? Is there a Spanish word? Is there like What am I missing here? And it really becomes clear When she follows it up with I've been sitting on the washing machine And the chorus That she's going through A dry spell Yes But I need you to say it, Charlie I need you to say it Oh, oh Horned up?

11:14Yes So there's some great Casey turns of phrases And then we get to The pre-chorus Ain't nobody's tool up in my shed Ain't nobody's boots under my bed Ain't nobody's truck up in my drive For a late night call For a real good time Ain't nobody's boots under my bed It's, it's She has such a knack for Always towing the line of like Kind of a traditional country sound

11:45And whenever she's like Strays too far Into something that feels A little risque Like sitting on the washing machine I feel like she'll just slide back Into that like Comfortable country territory Need a kind of metaphor Classic image Yeah, like boots under the bed She's like She always walks that line Really well Where you're like Oh yeah This song will still get played On country radio Yeah, right This is the thing that is Wonderful about Casey Is that She is great at wordplay There's so much humor In her music But it's not just a joke

12:16There's underlying Deep emotion in it as well I love that we have this Minor chord progression And it does feel like It's yearning for something It's like it's going somewhere And of course What we're yearning for Is human touch The blend of those two Is very satisfying Minor chords Humorous lyrics Won't somebody just love me 9-1-1 It's officially a cry for help Y'all I'm going through A dry spell Yep She'd just give us a y'all

12:50We got a y'all in there We got a y'all and a yep A y'all and a yep This is a real country return None of that Spacey Casey disco stuff We are firmly in Texas Right now, aren't we? We are With these lyrics that feel Very 2026 At the same time, right? Totally I read the studies I know we're under sex As a population Right now So it's a tongue-in-cheek song But it's also addressing A very real loneliness epidemic Thank you for taking it there

13:20Well, I do know I like what you said earlier About there's comedy In the lyrics But there's also Kind of a serious Kernel of truth as well I feel like that is Perfectly exemplified By another track On this album Featuring the guitar virtuoso Billy Strings Oh, love Billy Strings Called Everybody Wants to Be a Cowboy Everybody Wants to Be a Cowgirl Till it's five in the morning

13:52And it's cold as hell And the work ain't gonna do itself Everybody wants to be a cowboy These days Until It's time to stay Another song where You see the title And you hear her sing These Barbed lyrics Like I bet Most of these boots Have probably never seen any dirt But then you get to the chorus

14:22Everybody wants to be a cowgirl Till it's five in the morning And it's cold as hell And the work ain't gonna do itself This is more than A song about just Poking fun at You know Wannabe cowboys Who look the part It's like Really a song about What it takes to be A cowboy I mean What does that mean? It means someone Who actually Shows up Who sticks around Who does the work Like That's a more powerful message Than I was expecting At the start of this song

14:53Yeah, it's a great double meaning That's good songwriting Feels like also A mantra for The sound of this album We're hearing like Very raw Acoustic instruments Throughout Telecaster Guitars With that Classic Tremolo And overdrive Pedal steel Arcing Etherially Through the mix And Of course I know you've been waiting With bated breath For this A Ripping Billy Strings Flat pick

15:23Acoustic guitar solo He's so good He's such a Tasteful guitar player For someone who is Such a virtuoso Nothing in this record Ever rises above The power of her voice In the song All the players

15:54Are excellent And yet Every single time They're featured It's just to like Create a little lift Of the atmosphere And I feel like That's what Billy's Doing right there So beautifully Lots of dissonance All these clashing Strings that are A second apart From each other Ooh Yeah like Those kinds of things Yeah Oh give us some more Just trying to give you An interval Reminds me a little bit Of like David Rawlings

16:25Playing Anyway Support for this show Comes from AT&T You know what's great About summer All those plans we made They finally make it Out of the group chat Seems like there's More time to fit Everyone in Whatever you've got In store this summer Capturing those Moments is a must And you can do that With the iPhone 17 Pro From AT&T The center stage Front camera framing Auto adjusts To fit everyone Into group selfies You don't even have To turn your phone No awkward cropping Or asking strangers To take it Just the perfect Group selfie Every time And AT&T Makes sharing those Moments with everyone

16:56Easy Because you gotta Share the pic Or it didn't happen Right? Right now at AT&T Ask how you can get iPhone 17 Pro On them With eligible iPhone trade-in Any condition Requires trade-in Of iPhone 15 Plus or higher Excluding iPhone 16e And 17e Requires eligible plan Terms and restrictions Apply Subject to change Visit ATT.com Slash iPhone For details Hi, I'm Maria Sharapova Host of the Pretty Tough podcast Each episode I sit down With high-achieving Women to discuss

17:26The pursuit of Excellence Without apology This week on the show Comedian and best-selling Author Chelsea Handler Gifts her tips On independence And aging gracefully I would argue That 50 Now that I am 50 And I understand Life more Than I did When I was 30 or 40 Is that you get So much more wisdom And you get So much more experience That you actually feel Like you're beginning again Check out Pretty Tough New episodes on Wednesdays You can watch it on YouTube Or listen in your Favorite podcast app Okay, so today

Data Centers Discussion

17:57We're driving to Southern New Jersey And heading to A data center A couple weeks ago I read a story In NJ.com And it was all about How there's a data center Going up in Cumberland County The poorest county In New Jersey That's receiving Some community pushback And this immediately Got my attention Because data centers Are going up All across the country I feel like we should Be hearing politicians Talk more about this But we haven't really Heard a consensus Are data centers Really a necessary evil?

18:29Let's find out This is technology We've never seen before Right Experiment We're the experiment Down here And we're the guinea pigs Right And we're the guinea pigs Exactly Exactly One thing that happens In this country Is there's no planning For the future Is it benefiting people Or is it benefiting The elite And the money That's going into their pockets This is not about Abstract politics It's about people's Everyday lives That's this week On America Actually I gave you that quote About this album title

19:00Coming from the idea Of being in the middle Of nowhere Yeah Something You know I've never been to Rural Texas I have But you know I certainly have an imagination That it's like Wide open Expansive Horizon Stretching To the edge Of your vision This feeling Of being in the middle Of nowhere Is definitely Captured In the song Uncertain Texas The place I currently Live at Is barely Even on the map

19:31It's in the great State Of confusion I shake my head And wonder why Hesitations On the rise Is love Just a form Of delusion Here in uncertain Texas There's a way that this album Wants to explore The in-between Yeah The liminal states In a way that I find Really compelling And this particular track

20:01Is giving us A music That is kind of In-between Tejano music Tex-Mex music That is this border music That literally exists In the in-between Places Where does the US End and Mexico Begin Borders are kind of Fictitious At the end of the day And I feel like This musical style That blends The sound of Southern country And rock With traditional Mexican Instrumentation Of accordion And cowbell Is like The musical

20:31Representation Of that Yeah you know She's from Golden Texas Which is due East of Dallas Eastern Texas And Texas is enormous With just so many Different subcultures And variations I have been down To a border area Of Texas West of San Antonio Right near the Rio Grande And you really do Feel the blending Of many different Cultures and musics You walk into A saloon there And you're gonna get More of that Tejano sound That she's giving us Here so that She's taking us On a tour Around the great

21:01State of Texas And if we're Taking a tour Of Texas There's one voice We want to hear It's the poet laureate Of Texas music It's Willie Nelson Nothing better than

21:33Willie Nelson And a whole lot of Cowbell And some accordion It's a great track We talked about this Last year when we did A series on country And we did an episode About Americana But I think Willie Nelson Is one of the Greatest voices We have right now 93 years old And it's cracking It's rough He's dealing with Lung issues And yet I feel like That just makes His voice more powerful In this way It's more human And he spans The history Of contemporary

22:03Recorded music I mean You know From writing Patsy Cline's Crazy To launching Outlaw country music To releasing An album basically Every single year Of his life Yeah And importantly Operating in country music Like an outlaw Outside the world Of country music Meaning Not in Nashville But near Austin, Texas He I gotta prove myself Here that I've done My research This is not the first time He and Casey Have worked together That album you mentioned That I neglected to

22:33Earlier Pageant Material Features a duet With Willie Nelson And I've mentioned This song is representative Of the album's themes Of being in between Interstitial That means we should Probably talk about The title track Middle of Nowhere Yes Which is actually The first song We get on this album It's a transporting song Past the Dairy Queen The county line Where there ain't Any fences Just count it with me Two Three Four

23:03One Two Three Four One Two Three Four One Two Then check it out Somewhere in the middle Of nowhere You see what I mean The song transports you Like the song is about Going into the middle Of nowhere Leaving the gritted nature Of urban society And going to the middle Of nowhere In the middle of nowhere Actually feels different It's slower time We literally slow down

23:34Into this compound Feel When we arrive Into the middle Of nowhere And it's so satisfying The pedal steel Comes in That whining sound That just greets us Like any great country song Does Her ingredients Are always simple But they're treated So perfectly The guitar The pedal steel The drums The bass They merge together So delicately So sweetly It's a good moment To shout out Some of the collaborators

24:04On this album Many of whom Have been working With Casey Since 2013 Same trailer Different park In fact when we listen To this song The very first thing We hear is Casey Singing With a male Harmony voice Below her That must be Daniel Tashin Which is kind of an Interesting move I think it's Daniel Tashin Exactly Who has co-written And co-produced Many of Casey's Albums Ian Fitchick Switched on Pop guests Obligatory shout out Also appearing As a producer Songwriter On many of her tracks

24:34Plus real Country heavyweights Country stalwarts Yeah Like Shane McAnally Luke Lair Josh Osborne Steph Jones These are Stalwarts Of Nashville Songwriting sessions Also Rick Nowles Scotty Emmerich Really great Writers on this record And then there's A songwriter We haven't mentioned Not just a songwriter Country star In their own right Miranda Lambert Oh yeah She is A songwriter

25:05And the featured Artist On a song Called Horses And Divorces That's a good title You know that I've said Some things about you And I've done my fair share Of shit talking too Both sides of the fences I've gotten defensive There's always two sides Of the truth Okay this requires A little bit of backstory Help me out here Because this is a fun Back and forth duet But it's based

25:35In reality It's the country Equivalent Of the Charlie XCX Lord Let's work it out On the remix You know Girls so confusing But Casey and Miranda Had some Issues That go Way back To a song From 2013 That was a huge hit For Miranda Lambert Called Mama's Broken Heart Go and fix Your makeup girl

26:06It's just A breakup run And hide You're crazy And start acting Like a lady Called I praise You better Gotta Keep it together Even when You fall apart But this ain't My mama's Broken heart Huh That's a fun one Such a great track Yeah And who wrote it Any guesses I'm gonna guess It was a Casey Musgraves song It was Okay Now Casey

26:37Apparently Wanted to feature This song On her debut album Oh But because She was still Kind of a newcomer Because she was Working on the track With more experienced Songwriters like Shane McAnally Who we just mentioned I think she felt Like she was Obligated to give it up To this You know Country Star Miranda Lambert And she then had to Sit back and watch her Just go platinum With this thing Oh man

27:08So this resulted In a Kind of Very Memeable moment That I only Just discovered Which was at The Country Music Awards When Miranda Lambert Accepted Her award She gave A little Shout out To Casey Musgraves Who had just Won Best new artist In the same ceremony Yeah And Charlie I actually want to Show you this And maybe you can Describe What's happening For our listeners

27:38Casey Congratulations On new artist That was awesome East Texas girls Gotta stick together Okay so That kind of Looked like the Equivalent of a False apology Where Miranda's like Not given the Biggest smile When she's Saying congratulations To Casey Who is Basically giving A death stare Back Yes At Miranda Not looking happy She is not even

28:09Pretending to smile For the camera She looks With the ring She wanted that song So fast forward We now have The Remix So to speak With Miranda And Casey Coming together And burying Their differences That's fun And Casey Introduces Miranda Lambert At a recent live show Like this Well you know Us these Texas girls Gotta stick together By referencing

28:48That meme Casey Is saying Hey Whatever beef we had It's over And actually Check out the chorus Of our new song together Hell just froze over Cause we're both At the bottom Of the bottle And we're finding We got a few things In common Like horses And divorces And we both Like to drink Maybe

29:18We're more Alike Than we think That's how you do it Charlie You don't release A diss track You release a track Where you sing In harmony About your Common experience Of horses And divorces This is Such a cool track Shared woes That's how you bond Now there's a number Of other songs That we haven't discussed On Middle of Nowhere That I highly Encourage everyone To go check out I'm gonna give a special Shout out to Rhinestoned Love that track Can you think of The central wordplay Around Rhinestoned

29:50If not Just go spin it For yourself It's an apple bong That was unintentional I swear That cough What are you hiding Under that desk But I want to zoom out

Country Music Landscape

30:02From Casey's Middle of Nowhere And think about The meaning of this album In the current landscape Of country music And actually I want to Contrast Casey To another figure Who has Been making waves Within the genre Recently And I don't think We've actually Talked about On the podcast Up to this point Kid Rock It's It is Ella Langley Oh yeah The artist Hailing from